/lit/ - Literature

>>19086237
Unironically neck yourself

>>19086237
>Does suicide invalidate everything an author ever had to say
yes unironically

>>19086237
he was a cringe-y british leftist in life too
rest in piss desu

suicide is glorious. indeed it validates everything an author had to say. suicide is the only the task of an incredible soul

>>19086237
No. Dying to prove a point is the biggest flex

>>19086275
Unironically this. Imagine not being willing to die over the things you believe.

It sort of confirmed his thesis in a way, that there is no hope of a better future in the neoliberal capitalist paradigm and that the masses are unable to conceive of something else to replace it. Fisher didn't want to live in a world like that, so he killed himself. Kind of drove the point home further.

>>19086237
>Does suicide invalidate everything an author ever had to say?
No. Cato commiting suicide did not invalidate his cause; even Caesar saw that. Its not if you commit suicide, but what do you commit suicide for.

>>19086237
try it and tell us how it goes

>>19086237
I hate Americans so much.

>>19086237
Depends. If Pinker ends up commiting suicide then it invalidates his shit philosophy, but in this instance it doesn't seem to directly impact his words really

>>19086237
>Does suicide invalidate everything an author ever had to say?
no

>This guy couldn't even get his shit together in his own life. Why should I believe his musings on political philosophy are anything but the product of a mentally ill mind and therefore not worth listening to?
If you believe given ideas (written, recorded, anything past-made) have any relation with the human that made them, then you are no better than twitter trannies who hate culture products because of their "authors". So, if you want to dismiss Fisher's ideas, do it becase they suck (because thats real, Fisher is worthless for anyone who is not a twitter brainlet or a 12 year old child), not because he "necked himself"... Anyway, I doubt you could be capable of that, because its obvious you read Fisher because of internet memes.

>>19086237
>Does suicide invalidate everything an author ever had to say?
No, it made Fisher more based which a soulless wagie can't understand.

Are his accounts of suicidal thoughts more credible because he killed himself? In particular I remember reading that part in IJ where M.P. tries to kill herself. How she walks through town and collected the ingredients to her suicide. That part is great in itself but I cannot read it without thinking of his suicide.

No. For example, an anti-natalist invalidates everything they say UNLESS they commit suicide.

>>19086245
Indeed. He could at least have read Stirner and realized that the hell he claims capitalism to be is produced by himself. He want to live in it.

Side question, are there any examples of joyfull suicides? As an experiment with existence?
Getting even more sidetracked, I remember seeing a fragment about euthanasia in Belgium. A girl wanted to be euthanized because of mental illness. I found it so weird that she did not just off herself, but that she wanted the state to intervene. If I am depressed, I am not gonna wait for the state to help me end my life. I can do that myself.
Next point, why the fuck are people so uninspired with their suicides? For example, why not try climbing down a large building in your country/city. It's pointless, but if you are killing yourself you believe life to be of no value anyway. That's the problem with all suicidal people, they are ultimately not honest with themselves. They desire their own misery.

>>19087689
Take your fucking adderall Anon, Jesus H.

>>19086275
>Dying to prove a point is the biggest flex
Which is not suicide

>>19086237
it vindicates it

>>19086610
Damn son

>>19086237
just remember if you want to shit on fisher for offing himself you're going to have to dump weininger too

>>19086237
>life is bad
>i want to stop living
seems logically consistent to me desu

>>19088155
he proved he was serious

>>19086237
>Does suicide invalidate the authors work
Not always but definitely for this guy. How can anyone read "ghosts of my life" and seriously think he's describing a universal logical reaction to capitalism, instead of his own shitty reaction to his own life? He even needed to coin a new term "hauntology" just to describe his feelings. Maybe the reason no one else thought of it is because no one else thought it affected them?
I seriously get bugged seeing his stuff still memed. Capitalist Realism is such a terrible activism book. It's unhelpful, defeatist, pessimistic, and riddled with logical errors which are ignored because of its serious tone. This isn't activism, it's a coping mechanism for personal problems

>>19086237
It depends on the context of the suicide. I dont think Socrates or Seneca were invalidated by their respective suicides. In fact in both cases it aligned with the philosophy they had extolled up to that point. I believe it's about the same with Fisher. He was a depressive, he hated the world, by implication he hated himself; his suicide more or less confirms the earnestness of all his beliefs. I can't relate, myself. I think life is pretty good.

>>19088901
>He even needed to coin a new term "hauntology" just to describe his feelings.
kek

>>19088901
Hauntology is legit. There's a whole music scene based on the idea called hypnagogic pop (Mac Demarco, Tame Impala, John Maus, Clairo, Ariel Pink are some big artists involved with it), as well as vaporwave.

>>19088934
As anon said, the aesthetic of depressive longing for an imagined past when things were better, for lack of any ability to imagine a better future. Of course this came from an ultimately suicidal mind.

>>19087689
>Side question, are there any examples of joyfull suicides? As an experiment with existence?
I have just the thing for you anon
https://legacy.gscdn.nl/archives/images/suicide_note.pdf

>>19088953
I can't work myself up to this level of indignance over the suicidal. Obviously they already think quite lowly of themselves. Not really my concern if they go through with it. It would be annoying if it was someone I cared about, but not otherwise.

>>19087689
>Side question, are there any examples of joyfull suicides? As an experiment with existence?
It's one of the character arcs Dostoevsky puts in Demons, a very nice and underdiscussed book from him

>>19088953
>Many short and easy roads to freedom lie open on all sides. Let us thank god, that no one is able to be kept in life.

>He who says [that one should die naturally] does not realize that he blocks off the road of freedom. The eternal law did nothing better than giving us one entrance into life, but many exits. Should I await the cruelty of disease or man, when I am able to exit through the middle of tortures and shake off my adversities?

>But you know this, to how many men it (death) is useful, how many men it
frees from tortures, destitution, ailments, torments, and weariness. We are in the power of no one, when death is in our power.

>Freedom is in sight. This is the prize I am working for. What is freedom, you ask? To be a slave to no situation, to no necessity, to no chance events; to force fortune onto an even playing field. On that day when I know that I am more powerful, fortune will have no power. Shall I put up with her, when death is under my control?

Seneca > Chesterton

>>19088965
Imagine writing a 2,000 page suicide note, thinking you're writing an insightful and profound philosophical treatise, only for nobody but the investigators to ever read it.

>>19086237
No. If anything it only proves that he genuinely believed his thesis and was authentic, unlike other hacks. Capitalist Realism is inescapable and poisons everything.

>>19089203
Better than writing it and having no one read it, like most people here.

>>19088953
Chesterton could really be an odious brainlet sometimes. Just another well-fed fatass with no feeling for suffering.

>>19086237
> mentally ill mind and therefore not worth listening to
depression is linked to absence of cognitive optimistic bias (simply lying to yourself that everything is fine for increased motivation), therefore in that regard, judgement is more accurate.

>>19087689
>are there any examples of joyfull suicides?
What about Socrates arguably?

>>19088901
>>19088934
>He even needed to coin a new term "hauntology"
Isn't it in Zen and the Art of Motorcycles'
Maintenance?

>>19088934
>Tame Impala
Isn't Tame Impala just refurbished psychodelic music?

>>19086260
Kill yourself :)

>>19086245
>yes unironically

>>19086237
>suicide
>mental illness
this is result of the american smile.

>>19088879
He had a wife and young son. Abandoning them is profoundly weak and pathetic. If he was so convinced life was intolerable then he shouldn't have had kids. If he was strong he'd carry on the struggle like Chris Hedges or any man with an ounce of respectability.

>>19087689
>That's the problem with all suicidal people, they are ultimately not honest with themselves
they are not honest with themselves because they dont make an original innovative funny suicide?. thats your argument?. suicide is not about no giving value to life, really, you are the one who are so pragmatist that don't understand the inner multeity of humanity.
only people who are afraid of his own suicidal thoughts or insensitive dumb people think suicide is bad or not honest.

>>19090667
>nooooo! not the heckin waifu!
>think of the kidderinos!
i swear to god tradlarpers are just weebs for 1950s propaganda

>>19086237
No but being fat does.

>>19090754
>t. genetic dead end

Just kill yourself now and save us your whining.

>>19086610
Yes. I found his descriptions of anhedonia and clinical depression through Kate Gompert very incisive too for these reasons.

Wasn’t the heroin O.D. character PGOAT? Don’t remember anyone called M.P.

suicide is based, doing a cannon ball into the void is not "taking the easy way out"

>>19090903
>clinical depression
its like you people want to pathologize sadness or melancholy. if literature is useful for something is to see how clearly sadness and "clinical depression" is part of humanity. if you try to quit it from ourselves you quit humanity the spirit it have. not like a scientist would understand it anyway.

>>19090754
I'm no rightist, but this here is why I always get the sense that leftists are generally not trustworthy or scrupulous people.

>>19086237
only if you think the same thing about mathematicians, or chemists. if they wrote True thing, their personal life isn’t important. you can obviously use some nuance here but this is what logically evaluating ideas is for

>>19086345
that’s literally the opposite of the point of the book what the fuck

>>19091010
>he thought anyone here reads

>>19088888
Checkee

>>19086652
not a real ideology and not what they think anyway

>>19090935
If you value trustworthiness and scruples you'd be well-served by spending time around, and forming meaningful personal connections with, rightists IRL t. rightist

>I'm incapable of thinking for myself and have to look at the author's biography to judge if he's worth taken seriously - the thread

>>19088953
>There remains, lastly, the question of suicide. One says of some such person that he blew his brains out because he did not want to live any longer. Is it true that he did not want to live? Or rather, did he commit suicide because he wanted to live otherwise?…because he did not believe that he could change his life?
>At the root of the depression and despair which lead to suicide, the element of dissatisfaction is to be found, i.e. the desire and assertion for another form of life or another way of living. One is not dissatisfied if one does not want anything. One does not despair, if one does not hope for anything. One does not kill oneself if one does not take life seriously. All dissatisfaction presupposes the affirmation of an imagined happiness. All despair presupposes a virtual hope. Thus, all suicide presupposes the passionate affirmation of some value in life: love, glory, honour, health, happiness…

>>19090903
M.P. is Madame Psychosis aka Joelle and/or DMZ

>>19091242
Unironically yes. I don't have infinite time to read any book I stumble across. So I gotta rely on some heuristics. And whether the author is cringe is pretty high on that list.
Then again, I opened this thread despite OP being a faggot, so maybe I need to sort myself out somewhat...

>>19090876
>you vill NOT criticize society
>you VILL spend your life as a wagie
>you VILL surrender your earnings to consoomerist women and children
>you vill NOT have their gratitude
>you vill own NOTHING
>and you vill be HAPPY
imagine believing that this is a fulfilling life

>>19091510
And you're meaningful contributions consist of what...exactly? Bait, but if you're actually unhappy with your mental illness, try talking with someone. Anyone. I do feel sorry for you, though. Your pretend discontent belies an inability to achieve. And that's a loss for everyone.

>>19086237
>This guy couldn't even get his shit together in his own life.
Suicide is entirely reasonable.

He killed himself because he blamed his inability to cope on external circumstances.

If you are a retarded socialist (of any kind), you will be unable to take individual responsibility for your own mental health, because you believe everything about you is the result of being herded in one direction or another.

If he had a different value structure, he may have actually done something to prevent his own death. Oh well.

>>19086237
all writers are mentally ill you eunuch

>>19086237
>Why should I believe
You read the words and then you think about them
That is all, quit jacking off

>>19086345
too bad, there is still hope for the future

>>19086432
no if pinker suicided, the happiness index would still be the same as he will not be counted

>>19086260

Yes.

>>19088953
>ChadFaceYes.png

Is he arguing for or against suicide?

>>19090919
i don't know if you read the book but gompert was literally in a psych ward for clinical depression. wallace had it too.

it's not really about pathologizing the sadness it's about capturing the whole affair in relation to its place in modern society. if you think it's being reduced here to "muh brain chemicals" and not something sadly profound and multifaceted in modern human life you're not really understanding it.

wallace has been one of the best writers for empathizing and analyzing what society calls "clinical depression" as more than just a disease.

>>19086237
Fisher? No, Capitalist Realism is basically left with no conclusion, basically an example of a half-assed one about reducing the levels of bureaucracy. Very very expected.

Yet, interesting how his peers on the right at least managed not to kill themselves.

>>19086237
Do you know what mental illness is or how it works?

>>19090935
I have spent considerable time irl with serious leftists. The old conservative meme "liberalism is a mental disorder" is right and so are you. They are actually mentally ill and are taking it out on the world and anything that's right. You can't even hold a conversation with them unless you are one of them. They are quite possibly the most "spooked" people of them all. Beware.

No.
I think that suicide at least shows that he was committed to his thesis - that capitalism would suck the world dry and transform it to one big netural resource to be packaged and marketed.

As a leftist, however, he had nowhere to turn to. The past was 'big bad time where minorities and women were oppressed' - so nothing to learn from there. He didn't have children, so he couldn't lose himself in family life. His sad end was the result of being a superb leftist analyst who couldn't see the world outside of culturally liberal realism.

>>19096311
Nothing you just said makes any sense. Why is everyone here pulling shit out of their ass when talking about Fisher when he was one of the easier sociopolitical authors to read?

>>19086237
>are ad hominems fallacious arguments

>>19089203
I remember reading like 200 pages of it, it's not that bad. It's been a while, but I think I remember thinking that we shared quite a few views and ideas.

>>19086345
Have you ever read a book beyond the title you fucking idiot

>>19086237
>says society makes him want to kill himself
>kills himself
are you retarded in the brain?

How does this book bring all the retards out 100% of the time?
Is it just a joke because all people would have to do is read 100 easy af pages?
WTF is happening?

>>19086237
suicide is proof that the system is evil, they want you dead:
>On August 30, 2021, Jonathan Singer, PhD, LCSW, announced his resignation from the presidency of the American Association of Suicidology. At his request, I posted his resignation letter here in order to make the letter accessible to as many people as possible.
>On Sept. 14, he asked me to remove the letter, and I did. During the time the letter was posted, people contributed meaningful comments. I don’t want them to be erased, so I’m leaving this brief explanation up as a placeholder.
You can guess what the letter said by this comment:
>Diversity and Equity? George Floyd?
>70% of suicides in America are WHITE MEN. Even when you go per capita we kill ourselves at nearly 3 times the rate of Black people. We kill ourselves more than any other minority besides Native Americans (our female suicide rates are still higher than even theirs) and the letter didn’t mention Native Americans in any event.
>Wouldn’t a reasonable conclusion be to look at those numbers and say, “Wow.. we really need to reach more White people, men in particular? How does a diversity fetish help accomplish that mission? Nothing says ‘you don’t matter’ more than the head of a suicide organization essentially saying, “We need to stop focusing on White dudes so much” when we all know damn well what the statistics are.
>There’s already a gigantic problem with empathy within your profession – many of you can’t even relate to us as depressives, with nothing else inhibiting communication and understanding. Then the majority of you are women and the majority of suicides are men, so there’s a gender gap added to that. Now we’re going to add willful racial misunderstanding to that mix as well?
>I’ve gotten this feeling before – it’s like you all want to posture and LOOK like you’re preventing suicide and doing the right thing, rather than actually preventing suicide. I’ve got a low bar when it comes to Psychiatry and therapy but nonetheless I am still disappointed. You guys gatekeep some pretty useful meds, but on a mental level you don’t get it at all. You just don’t get it. And it’s the mental level that counts.
They want to kill you. They want all white males dead. All this diversity shit is just a roundabout way to kill us all.