/lit/ - Literature

>>19084213
>yo tradition, initiation, dharmic order and perfect harmony through monarchism and shit
>not physically possible though (not observable)
>oh but it's a form... you know Plato and shit
Nobody has refuted this, in the same vain you can't disprove the existence of metaphysics

>>19084213
yes

>>19084213
Yes, contemporary scholarship on Eastern traditions. His understanding of Eastern religions was hilariously bad for someone with this much inflated ego.

>>19084270
Evola was wrong but how is contemporary scholarship any better? Just because is new? Academics suck.

>>19084270
yeah I bet you've read all of Evola's books on eastern tradition and compared them with all the academic research of the same traditions and written your own peer reviewed paper of the matter.

If you want to use academia as an authority of truth, then Evola is not refuted until a peer-reviewed paper is released that compares Evola's interpretations with "scientifically correct" interpretations of eastern religious sources. Your opinion is shit if you want to use scholars as gatekeepers of truth.

>>19084270
>>19084300
oh and first you have to prove that "scientific interpretations" of religious texts are correct and true. Good luck

>>19084300
Not that faggot.
Evola was very subjective, you can really see this in his interpretations of sacerdotal vs royal castes from the Vedas. Coomaraswamy refuted him based on the vedic texts, see his "Spiritual authority and temporal power" (has the same name as Guenon's book). Apart from this, his interpretation of Tantra is also very much influenced by his idea of physical action, this was noticed by Guenon and Evola's main source was an orientalist anyway (Arthur Avalon), he didn't knew sanskrit.

>>19084213
Retroactively refuted by the Smurfs.

>>19084213
I would find it hard to believe if anyone has successfully read him
>t. filtered 80% of the way through metaphysics of war and proud

>>19084213
If you actually understand what he is saying, then you will know that it cannot be refuted.
>>19084270
>endorsed by the Pali society
cope and seethe
>>19084321
I am no expert on Tantra but you should consider that Evola is exploring these traditions for a practical purpose, he did not set out to categorise every single type of Tantric methodology there is. As to the caste issue, I can't address this unless you first elaborate on what exactly you are referring to.

>>19084860
What filtered you anon? I'll address it for you.

>>19084875
>Evola is exploring these traditions for a practical purpose
If they are distorted and practiced without a guru, is basically counter-initiation
>As to the caste issue, I can't address this unless you first elaborate on what exactly you are referring to
I see that you're new to this authors. Guenon, Coomaraswamy and Evola, all agreed that there used to be only one sacerdotal and royal caste, in more primordial times. The problem is that Evola wasn't able to see that action is dependent on metaphysical knowledge, and not vice versa. So when this once unified caste split in two, Evola sided with the royal/warrior one instead of the sacerdotal one. If we look at the history of different cultures from this later period we can see that the royal/warrior caste was almost always subordinated to the sacerdotal one, the exceptions being some rebellions like the one in India, between the kshatriyas and the brahmins, when the former caste was eventually overthrown even by the lower castes because it destabilized the whole system. In any case, I think you should read Guenon's book "Spiritual authority and temporal power", is about diverse cultures, including feudal Europe, exactly on this topic.

Esotericism is refuted by going outside

>>19084982
>If they are distorted and practiced without a guru, is basically counter-initiation
No. They are not distorted. Within a school, there can be various ways. Prioritising one way over others is not the same as distorting a single or multiple of those ways.
>I see that you're new to this authors. Guenon, Coomaraswamy and Evola, all agreed that there used to be only one sacerdotal and royal caste, in more primordial times. The problem is that Evola wasn't able to see that action is dependent on metaphysical knowledge, and not vice versa. So when this once unified caste split in two, Evola sided with the royal/warrior one instead of the sacerdotal one. If we look at the history of different cultures from this later period we can see that the royal/warrior caste was almost always subordinated to the sacerdotal one, the exceptions being some rebellions like the one in India, between the kshatriyas and the brahmins, when the former caste was eventually overthrown even by the lower castes because it destabilized the whole system. In any case, I think you should read Guenon's book "Spiritual authority and temporal power", is about diverse cultures, including feudal Europe, exactly on this topic.
I am not new to this. It is just that a lot of the caste polemicists claim Evola unilaterally proclaimed the warrior caste to be supreme, when that's not the case at all and he is mostly in agreement with Guenon and the others.
I can see that this is not your claim. I find nothing you have said to be disagreeable. I do not think Evola would, either. Evola's very specific position on the caste system was that, today, in our specific climate and situation, a reintegration of Tradition would be more likely to be achieved by the warriors than by the priests. This is because he believed Catholicism to be both non-esoteric and anti-esoteric. He also saw Vatican II occur during his lifetime, which solidified that position. He believed that a warrior caste with a mastery over the virile principle would be more practically capable of taking over a given state and then discovering and instituting spiritual values in that state, which could then serve as a reference point for others. He did not think that the royal/warrior castes were superior to the sacerdotal one, except in this specific practical way.
With all that said, you seem to know your Guenon. Do you mind if I ask you how the method of contemplation leads to enlightenment? I understand Evola's path of action and operative magic etc. Seems clear and there's clear signs along the way that you are growing. I think I am more contemplative by nature, but I simply don't understand how the contemplative path (or the devotional for that matter) work. Achieving enlightenment through reason or devotion seems to be basically a random occurrence, which makes me uncomfortable.

>>19084989
According to people who met him in Cairo, Guenon would rarely leave his house, usually spending his time reading/writing, praying or playing in the garden with his kids and cat.
Reject going outside, embrace esoteric neet life.

>>19084213
not really, since he's arguing from authority
>as you can see from these obscure oriental texts, tradition is real
>and here is an obscure ancient greek text which also claims tradition is real
>therefore, it is real

>>19085036
>Do you mind if I ask you how the method of contemplation leads to enlightenment?
With extra-exoteric practices, guided by a spiritual master. This is not some magical phenomena so it can't be detailed very much, is beyond words or books. Guenon described the multiple states of the being but he only wanted to made us aware that they exist and what the steps are, his books aren't practical manuals because this things can be teached, in a practical way, only by a spiritual master and even so, you will become fully aware only when you achieve them.
I know what Evola thought about the Catholic Church and Guenon also had a similar conclusion, from the esoteric aspect of the problem. That being said, I don't see why we would make our own magical systems or whatever, instead of going to an authentic spiritual master? Since such opportunities still exist even today, especially in Islam.

>>19085111
Read his book on magic and then become that authority for yourself anon. Easy solution.
>>19085137
I believe he didn't devise his operative system on his own. He based it on documented esoteric methods, which I would assume were documented because they could be documented, and which I also assume Evola tested. I haven't gotten very far along in my practice, but I can confirm that they can definitely induce very obvious effects. I believe his operative path works. But I digress. I accept what you say, in principle. Let's say that spiritual growth, for the highest sacerdotal type, is accomplished not through reasoning or devotion, but through initiation. The issue then becomes such - finding a legitimate spiritual master. Now, the problem is, unless you are a spiritual master yourself, you will not be able to recognise one when you meet him. Moreover, you may have a hard time meeting him, since you'd need to travel to the Middle East, India or East Asia. I can't do that. I was almost defrauded by a self-proclaimed spiritual master just last month and if I had actually spent my savings travelling to his location only to receive false teaching, I honestly don't know what I would have done. New Age shit has also gone a long way to introduce tons and tons of white noise into the mix and obscure the presence of legitimate masters. Put aside the fact that I don't want to become a Muslim, for example. What am I suppose to do in these circumstances, if we assume that I am constitutionally most suited to sacerdotal methods?

>>19084300
>Your opinion is shit if you want to use scholars as gatekeepers of truth
... and you're not doing this with your wheelchair aristocrat?

>>19085192
>Put aside the fact that I don't want to become a Muslim, for example
Is really your best option as a westerner, why refuse it? Finding a spiritual master in Islam is not that difficult, especially if you move to a place like Morocco. And even if it doesn't reach your expectations, according to Guenon, initiation is what really matters. Apart from that, they all know how to teach you the practices, invocation of the divine names, etc. Is really up to you but is not easy at all, there are multiple steps which you have to make, I heard a story of a man who ended up in the hospital after practicing the advanced type of dhikr, without doing the easier one. So yeah, is up to you.

>>19085316
Why respond to this one line in particular? I'd have thought the rest of what I said is more important. I appreciate Islam as a form of traditional wisdom, but I do not like it. Out of all the traditions I am aware of, I only like it more than Christianity and even then it remains alien to my character. I would prefer something more Hindu or yoga oriented.

>>19085316
>>19085350
Tradfags should move to Afghanistan. It's your version of what the Soviet Union was to last century's devout commies.

>>19085481
And you should make your local ghetto's McDonalds your home because that's where you belong. At least pay attention to what you are replying to when you do. I literally said that I do not like Islam.

>>19085350
>Why respond to this one line in particular?
I thought that is the most practical one.
>I would prefer something more Hindu or yoga oriented
I could also say that I would prefer taoism or advaita vedanta but sufism is much more accessible and fit for the western mentality, since is an abrahamic religion. We are 21st century westerners after all, not druids from thousands of years ago. Since you agree that all religions have the same results, I don't see why you would not pick the most accessible one. In any case, I guess that some form of hinduism could also be a possibility if you are willing to live in India.

>>19085518
I know a guy who claims he can get me a Hindu initiation in my own city, but honestly I don't really trust initiation to do much for me on its own either way. This is why I was wondering if perhaps Guenon charted out another possible path - for instance, all the speculative traditions that Evola constantly rips on. If it all depends on initiation, though, then that both complicates and simplifies things.

>>19085515
Yes I have to get my tendies from somewhere. And you need your unbroken initiatory lineage.

>>19084875
take a hike julius

>>19085046
Very wholesome

>>19085567
I think fried chicken will be more to your taste.

>>19085542
Guenon was against any type of syncretism. Also, initiation is basically just a gate which opens for your spiritual path to begin, there is a long path from there.

Spengler

>>19085629
I think I'll take a walk there right now. Maybe you can get a nursing aid to wheel you to the madrassa.

>>19085638
So, basically it all ties into initiation, then? Do you know what comes after that? I might be able to get an initiation after all, but I am not sure what I would do afterwards. The roadmap with the operative path, on the other hand, is pretty clear

>>19085685
Well, depends on what kind of initiation you get, if is authentic or counter-initiation. In any case, I can only suggest you to follow one traditional form alone, at least the exoteric part, and don't get too impressed by magical phenomena because is irrelevant, just another form of materialism with spiritual claims.

Do people actually believe in the whole Hyperborea/Atlantis thing?

>>19085801
Yes.

>>19085481
They are life-denying Muslims, treat women in a way I disapprove of (I don't think "hate women" is the right way to put it but I still don't approve of the gender norms the Taliban favors), and also not White. I have no interest in moving there. They're not our people. I'm staying in America because it's my homeland. If things really do get horrible and there is no chance of survival, I will probably move to a Baltic country. I'd prefer not to though.

>>19085813
>loves Tradition
>dislikes traditional people
Every time.

>>19085836
Not that anon but the taliban isn't traditional at all, they seem to be influenced by salafism which hate sufis and the islamic tradition. Is basically just radical islamic protestantism.

>>19085808
Why?

>>19085849
Far and away more traditional than any western govt.

>>19085973
Depends on what you mean by "traditional". I don't consider myself a "traditionalist" and I only agree with Guenon's definition of tradition. The taliban for sure has nothing to do with it.

>>19085046
“I must live a certain kind of way”

>>19085990
Ok so it's just an intellectual exercise.

>>19084213
Few have attempted. The only way to refute Evola is to be completely dismissive of metaphysics and just call him a schizo. The only way to acknowlege and affirm Evola is to have a tangible grasp on metaphysics.

Evola will forever filter and disuade stubborn materialists and that's a good thing because his ideas aren't amphibious and may only breathe within a metaphysically informed framework.

No. Nobody who has adequately understood him has refuted anything he said, despite the few who may have had better versions of the same ideas.

>>19086114
People like you never read a page of Guenon and imagine that tradition is old=good. Why do you even reply on this thread?

>>19086126
You're retarded. He didn't invent philosophy. He didn't invent metaphysics. You've only read one author so you're a moron who thinks he's a big guy for you.

>>19086148
That is your opinion though! Surely you don't think there is any good from Nietzsche when you can just keep thomism, whether Christian or Shankarist.

>>19086155
Pre modern times were not perfect, I am critical of stoicism and some parts of greek philosophy for example. And thomism is not advaita.

i don't get the modern fascists obsession with traditionalism, the original fascists were futurists. they wanted to burn everything to the ground and build a new order

>>19086184
Evola wasn't a fascist and yes, fascists are modernists

>>19085851
There are multiple different ways to believe in something anon. I know plenty of guys who believe in literal Hyperborea just because it's based. For me, I don't feel comfortable in believing things completely without evidence, so I believe in the Hyperborean myth symbolically. It reflects a spiritual reality that we need to return to - whether a physical Hyperborea has ever existed or not doesn't really matter. It exists spiritually. And we can make it exist materially too.
>>19086149
Non sequitur.
>>19086184
>>19086206
The "original fascists" were a the squadristi who wanted to beat the shit out of reds. Fascism wasn't a homogeneous movement, it had a million different types of tendencies within itself. Some were progressive, others were traditionalist. Even within these subgroups there was immense variety - for example, Christian boomers and pagan revivalists both belonged in the traditionalist camp.

>>19086184
Tradlarpers hate Nietzsche so they can't be futurists. The only future they imagine is one of ressentiment in which they will be rewarded for their otherworldly pursuits by a collapse of the present degenerate age, a motion which magically propels them to the top since they're able bounce with Tigger. It is champagne marxism for neofascists.

>>19084213
how do you refute schizo ramblings

>>19086244
>"tradlarpers hate Nietzsche"
>Evola's work is literally chiefly inspired by Nietzsche and Guenon

Do you guys think The Thing was based onf The Mountains of Madness?

>>19086126
I think one of Evola's points which i intuited is that the creation and proliferation of secret societies is why we are in this mess because you have a bunch of elitist egoists who become tempted by power and subverted by more powerful men who arent stupid.

Then they can enact a corrupt will upon the ignorant masses without being disturbed and engage in their end game plans without anyone really being aware of what is truly going on except at the highest levels.

Its that Evola agrees with the Hitlerian/Nietchian ubermensh theory that society should be structured along a certain mythos that everyone is unified within but still maintaining a hierachy based off competence/spiritual intelligence.

The idea of equality and egalitarianism are corrupt notions stemming from christianity and naive misinterpreted new age ideas like we are all one.

Evola rightly says that christianity is primarily the chief reason for the decline of Europe and was basically planned to do that 2000 years ago.

He also states that aesteism is not about rejection of material wealth but rather efficiently living your lifes true purpose without being encumbered by greed or superficial distractions.

>>19085851
Why not? I've seen it in a dream.

>>19084213
perennialism more like perinealism lmao

>>19086349
I don't know who that is, but based.

>>19085192
>>19085350
Take the bodhipill and be initiated into Vajrayana.

>>19086534
>TFW you will never be Tibetan
>TFW no Diamond-Thunderbolt Body
VGH
I fucking wish bro.

>>19086539
You don't have to be Tibetan bro. It's an Aryan tradition that they received too. Take refuge vows and start practicing meditation. Get a mala and chant Tara mantra. Things will fall into place.

>>19086819
Aren't all the monastic stuff in Tibet though? I thought they only do initiations in their homeland and in India now that the Lama is exiled there.

>>19084213
I did last night in a dream, but I don't remember it well enough to describe here.

>>19086241
>Hyperborea
Fake and gay G*rmanic LARP. Atlantis is where it's at.

>>19084213
>Has anyone successfully refuted him?
as a paraplegic, Evola had to dig shit out of his own ass in between committing his mental corpulence to the page

>>19086834
There are tons of Tibetan teachers who come to America and Europe to give initiations (also called transmissions) and there are even rinpoches giving some basic transmissions over live stream, things like initiation into basic practices with bodhisattvas and deities. I just received a reading transmission for Shantideva's Bodhicaryavatara over livestream a few weeks ago. Obviously for the deeper tantric practices you'll have to practice under a guru in person, but it's doable in the west. There are plenty of mantras and dharanis that we can practice without initiation as Buddhists in the meantime.

>>19086848
Hyperborea is Hellenic, anon.
>>19086879
Idk man. If I am going to do this, I want to do it properly. I have a couple of other traditions I want to check out first and I am yet to see if I can get some good results with Evola's operative system. What about you anon, have you been having any luck with your spiritual achievements in Vajrayana? Do you know what your initiatic line is?

>>19086941
I'm not initiated into any specific Vajrayana lineage. Right now I'm basically just practicing Mahayana Buddhism. I practice jnana meditation, read sutra, chant mantras, etc. I would say that these practices have definitely had a clear purifying effect on my mind. I feel a great deal of excitement and motivation to continue this path because I feel like I'm actually tapping into something real for the first time. I think everyone is different and people have their own karmic inclinations though. I went through a couple different stages of spiritual interest before arriving here, and other people have to follow their individual affinity.

>>19086972
Right now I'm making preparations to spend a few years focusing on meditation, maybe taking vows with a monastery and living as an upasaka for a while. Later down the line, when I feel like I'm ready, I intend to find a teacher and delve deeply into the Vajrayana proper.

>>19086149
That's not what I said retard. Nobody in their right mind believes Evola was an original thinker precisely because he made it his task to preserve ideas which were far older and more original than everything else being offered by his contemporaries.

And you being filtered by specifically Evola shouldn't derail us from the fact that you're equally filtered by Plato and Aristotle and every other metaphysically based philosopher too because you've chosen not to use metaphysical systems. That is what I asserted, that if you aren't willing to comprehend the metaphysical implications of his work then Evola is utterly useless to you. Evola is simply a real usecase project on the Platonist metaphysical/epistemological blockchain that runs on proof-of-spirit algorithms. You must have a problem with using or comprehending that if Evola is causing you issues.

>>19086294
No dumbass he asserts that ascesis means what it literally means "conscious discipline" and "alikened to the preservation of fire"

>>19087082
>real usecase project on the Platonist metaphysical/epistemological blockchain that runs on proof-of-spirit algorithms
Oh no no no the tradfag is terminally retarded. I can just read the Timaeus if I want to, I don't need recourse to a theosophist cripple

>>19086972
>>19087009
Honestly, I really like the principles of Buddhism, but enlightenment according to Buddhism seems to be basically unreliable and occur at its own initiative, which I don't feel comfortable with. Zen and Vajrayana seem most attractive to me out of the Buddhist traditions, but I have been looking at something that is more effective earlier on along the path and more strongly felt, like Tantric stuff, Taoist esoteric practice and of course the Hermetic system I mentioned. There's also the matter that, no matter how much I love spirituality, I feel that I have a part to play in the secular world - even though everything seems completely hopeless on that front. I want to become enlightened, but hope to have that be my fulcrum, rather than withdraw in a monastery.

>>19087116
Well, if I could offer some simple advice, I would say that it's good to practice meditation now and let go of thoughts about the reliability of enlightenment or when it's going to come. If you like Zen, practice zazen for 15 minutes every day. If you find it beneficial, gradually do more. It'll make for a good daily practice as you research and discern the right path.

>>19084213
Stirner
>I Have Based My Affair on Nothing

>>19087148
Thank you. I probably have a bunch of testing and explorations to do, but Zen is definitely one of the paths I am considering.

>>19086879
Oh great, I'm really looking foward to getting initiated by a tiktok video. At this point it's just too stupid, I can't trust any of these new age "gurus". All they are interested in is grabbing their shekels just like everyone else.

The only spiritual activity that I'm interested in is the state in which the greek poets describe as having been inspired by the muses. Maybe I'll have a look at some buddhist practices too. I just don't trust anyone else to be able to help me in the current era.

>>19087111
>Evola
>Theosophist
I swear you shills come to these threads with the exact same incorrect mischaracterizing cannon fodder replies every time.

>>19084300
read the academic books and look by yourself, illiterate chud.