/lit/ - Literature

>>19065917
>already I feel that this Hawthorne has dropped germinous seeds into my soul. He expands and deepens down, the more I contemplate him; and further, and further, shoots his strong New England roots into the hot soil of my Southern soul.

what did melville mean by this?

The scene in Call of the Crocodile with the futa mother

>>19065935
Certainly not an indulgent self-insert where the cheeky young sailor (who doesn't resemble Melvill) mates with a muscular scary savage.

>>19065917

So the two men entwined and wrestled with each other, working nearer and nearer. Both were white and clear, but Gerald flushed smart red where he was touched, and Birkin remained white and tense. He seemed to penetrate into Gerald’s more solid, more diffuse bulk, to interfuse his body through the body of the other, as if to bring it subtly into subjection, always seizing with some rapid necromantic fore-knowledge every motion of the other flesh, converting and counteracting it, playing upon the limbs and trunk of Gerald like some hard wind. It was as if Birkin’s whole physical intelligence interpenetrated into Gerald’s body, as if his fine, sublimated energy entered into the flesh of the fuller man, like some potency, casting a fine net, a prison, through the muscles into the very depths of Gerald’s physical being.

So they wrestled swiftly, rapturously, intent and mindless at last, two essential white figures working into a tighter closer oneness of struggle, with a strange, octopus-like knotting and flashing of limbs in the subdued light of the room; a tense white knot of flesh gripped in silence between the walls of old brown books. Now and again came a sharp gasp of breath, or a sound like a sigh, then the rapid thudding of movement on the thickly-carpeted floor, then the strange sound of flesh escaping under flesh. Often, in the white interlaced knot of violent living being that swayed silently, there was no head to be seen, only the swift, tight limbs, the solid white backs, the physical junction of two bodies clinched into oneness. Then would appear the gleaming, ruffled head of Gerald, as the struggle changed, then for a moment the dun-coloured, shadow-like head of the other man would lift up from the conflict, the eyes wide and dreadful and sightless.

At length Gerald lay back inert on the carpet, his breast rising in great slow panting, whilst Birkin kneeled over him, almost unconscious. Birkin was much more exhausted. He caught little, short breaths, he could scarcely breathe any more. The earth seemed to tilt and sway, and a complete darkness was coming over his mind. He did not know what happened. He slid forward quite unconscious, over Gerald, and Gerald did not notice. Then he was half-conscious again, aware only of the strange tilting and sliding of the world. The world was sliding, everything was sliding off into the darkness. And he was sliding, endlessly, endlessly away.

— Women in Love, D.H.Lawrence

>>19066012
damn..

>>19065917
>Ishmael is white
You what

>>19066012
*embarrased emoji*

>>19066209
what do you expect him to be instead? a genuine brood angloid.

>>19066209
Until about 100 years ago, Biblical names were very popular in America.

>>19065935
What the absolute fuck, this is majestic. Which book is it from?

>>19065917
probably two gay men having gay sex

>>19066260
If his name even is Ishmael. No idea what the fuck anon is on about though; of course he's a white american.

>>19066209
>Ishmael
With that name, he sure fucking isn't aboriginal. Thus, what else do you expect a man from New England, named Ishmael, in the mid-1800s, to be?

>>19066375
It's from a an essay Melville wrote about Hawthorne.

https://xroads.virginia.edu/~MA96/atkins/cmmosses.html

>>19066393
korean

>>19066403
Big if true

>>19065917
Lord of the Flies could be pretty (unintenionally according to the author) gae-ish. Even got its own tvtropes page and tumblr fandom back in the day:
https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/HoYay/LordoftheFlies

>>19066576
only in the sense that any group of young boys on the cusp of puberty (and, indeed, for years afterwards), without oversight, or possible stray female, is an overgrown garden of sexual deviancy

>>19065917
Whatever the fuck Stavrogin and Pyotr had going on

>>19066713
true true
still kinda gay tho

>>19065917
My diary desu

>>19066766
No mine
<3

>>19066721
Oh my god, this, a hundred times. Demons is one of the most homoerotic books, I'm glad I'm not the only one who sees it, it's insane. Shatov has a strange gay crush on Stavrogin too. Demons is practically Stavrogin's harem anime.

>>19065935

More tragic than just plain gay, the Memoirs of Hadrian, and in particular the chapter about Antinous' death.

>Love, wisest of gods. . . . But love had not been to blame for that negligence, for the harshness and indifference mingled with passion like sand with the gold borne along by a stream, for that blind self-content of a man too completely happy, and who is growing old. Could I have been so grossly satisfied? Antinous was dead. Far from loving too much, as doubtless Servianus was proclaiming at that moment in Rome, I had not been loving enough to force the boy to live on. Chabrias as a member of an Orphic cult held suicide a crime, so he tended to insist upon the sacrificial aspect of that ending; I myself felt a kind of terrible joy at the thought that that death was a gift. But I was the only one to measure how much bitter fermentation there is at the bottom of all sweetness, or what degree of despair is hidden under abnegation, what hatred is mingled with love. A being deeply wounded had thrown this proof of devotion at my very face; a boy fearful of losing all had found this means of binding me to him forever. Had he hoped to protect me by such a sacrifice he must have deemed himself unloved indeed not to have realized that the worst of ills would be to lose him.

>>19066721
>>19066792
Kek. As a fag, I've always wanted to ask about the homo-erotic undertones which I constantly detect in Dosto's work, yet have never had the courage. For instance, I recently read Letters from a dead house again, and, wow! how many times does he refer to some pretty young twenty year old man as 'beautiful'? How many times does the main character rapture in the innocent delight of these men's faces? Also, in Demons, the one who leads Stavrogin to where he had hid the press (I've forgotten his name), how gay was he for Pyotr? The way he dejectedly looks on as his idol goes off happily with some other man that he's never seen before.

>>19067014
fellow yourcenarchad... Memoirs hit me way harder than i'd like to admit.

>>19067014
>>19067043
I was in tears for basically everything that had a hint of Antinous. It's dreadful; why must life for us be without such beauty? Why can't I, after suffered through all the existential qualms of each of our everydays, come home to recline my head into the welcoming lap of an Antinous?

God I'm so fucking tired of being lonely.

>>19067035
Same, I'm a fag and Dostoyevsky's work is gay as fuck. It's even worse in Russian when you understand the original linguistic nuance. Letters from the Dead House is one of the most blatant instances of this, too many mentions of beautiful young men and strange romantic interactions, "I bet you are even more beautiful than your sister" moments, etc. It's just sus. His portrayal of male/male relationships also often has this "cutesy" aspect to it. There is a certain effeminacy in many of his male characters and he also likes to use the "one man idolizes another to the point of sexually tinted hysterics" trope. As a Russian reader the amount of homosexual tension in most of his work is intolerable and it's a recurrent motif, the male/female relationships that he portrays often feel artificial to me.

>>19067065
If it makes you feel any better, I would be your Antinous, anon.

>>19067089
I've always been timid to ask a native Russian about it since I felt they'd fire back with some accusation of 'western degeneracy' or such, I'm glad that I'm not insane in this regard.

May I ask you a question? I want to understand more about the practice, historic and modern, of male-male kissing, specifically in a familial/brotherly way. For instance, I just read The Idiot, and there's a scene where Kolya kisses his fathers hands—in an obviously normal way of course—and the father responds with incredulity, 'Have I not ashamed you?' and such. How exactly is kissing done in a greeting/friendship way? I'm English and it varies here depending on class and geography, but generally, the further south and the higher class, the higher kissing plays a factor, in greetings only, and then only with women; men, in modern times at least though I think it might have been different historically, most certainly don't kiss. Though perhaps to a boy maybe.

>>19067160
Are you a cute 15 year old Grecian with long flowing golden locks that will be willing to serenade me with a lyre and suck my cock whenever I want?

>Whence come you, Hawthorne? By what right do you drink from my flagon of life? And when I put it to my lips -- lo, they are yours and not mine. I feel that the Godhead is broken up like the bread at the Supper, and that we are the pieces. Hence this infinite fraternity of feeling. Now, sympathizing with the paper, my angel turns over another page. you did not care a penny for the book. But, now and then as you read, you understood the pervading thought that impelled the book -- and that you praised. Was it not so? You were archangel enough to despise the imperfect body, and embrace the soul. Once you hugged the ugly Socrates because you saw the flame in the mouth, and heard the rushing of the demon, -- the familiar, -- and recognized the sound; for you have heard it in your own solitudes.

>My dear Hawthorne, the atmospheric skepticisms steal into me now, and make me doubtful of my sanity in writing you thus. But, believe me, I am not mad, most noble Festus! But truth is ever incoherent, and when the big hearts strike together, the concussion is a little stunning. Farewell. Don't write a word about the book. That would be robbing me of my miserly delight. I am heartily sorry I ever wrote anything about you -- it was paltry. Lord, when shall we be done growing? As long as we have anything more to do, we have done nothing. So,now, let us add Moby Dick to our blessing, and step from that. Leviathan is not the biggest fish; -- I have heard if Krakens.

Why were even Melville's letters so kino?

>>19067178
In contemporary Russia people don't kiss each other as a greeting, it's a misconception - at least where I'm from (Moscow) people don't do that. I don't know enough about the specifics of etiquette in pre-revolutionary Russia to be qualified to speak about what it was like before. Today, usually people just embrace one another if they are close. Although you can kiss a male friend on the cheek in an affectionate way in some instances I guess, like a drunk celebration or something. Russian culture is not at all open to intimacy between strangers/acquaintances (physical intimacy or otherwise) so people aren't very touchy as a rule.

>I've always been timid to ask a native Russian about it since I felt they'd fire back with some accusation of 'western degeneracy' or such, I'm glad that I'm not insane in this regard.
Oh, the all-pervasive "western degeneracy" meme/psyop... Despite its homophobic political climate, Russia has historically been way more degenerate than Europe when it comes to homosexuality, kek.

>>19067331
>Russia has historically been way more degenerate the Europe when it comes to homosexuality
Really? That's certainly not what I've ever head; could you tell be something about it? There's a strong history of this clique-y homosexuality in Britain that has pervaded from basically post-puritans up to the Cambridge spying fiasco, when many Soviet spies were in homosexual clubs at that university.

>>19067246
:3

>>19065917
Alcibiades's speech in honour of Socrates in Symposium. Top cute.

>>19067160
Then find a wife you perverted freak

>>19067372
G-gee anon, I... I'd really like to fug your boi-pussy.
:3

>>19067411
Men are better then women!

>>19067418
Mam im so lonely... :(

>>19067589
(Man*)

>>19067351
My historical specialty is the 1900s, I'm not sure how things transpired prior to that. I do recall reading European traveler accounts about how Russia was supposedly "wilder" than Europe in that cultural aspect, but I really don't want to talk without clear sources. Russia had a lot of homosexuality going on within its nobility and "high culture" ("common culture" is less documented for obvious reasons), it was clique-y too, but at some point we had many (!) homosexual composers, painters, poets, journalists, and otherwise people gravitating around the art sphere in St Petersburg - if you study the Decadent/Symbolist/Silver Age, it's quite astounding how many people were gay or bisexual, some openly. Speaking of, the first explicitly gay poem was published by Kuzmin in Russia in 1906. It became very polemic and was widely discussed at the time. Ah, and the history of our ballet is also extremely homosexual.

https://josephsciambra.com/surviving-gaybarely/

The most accurate description of homosexual "love" you will ever read

>>19067351
I'll add to this that I have no idea about how this all evolved during the communist regime because to me communism decimated our history and culture and my interest for Russian history ends around the 1920s.

>>19067623
*Explicitly gay novel

I want a bf so bad bros… is it really too much to ask?

>>19067642
Ok dude, go get yelled at by your wife...

>>19067676
>is it too much to ask?
Yes, always yes. If life was nice no one would complain about it. You will take cute anime boys that you can't touch and you will like it.

>>19067623
Thank you, this is interesting. Do you know of the difference between pure homosexuality and Paedarism? I find that generally there is the latter everywhere at a more 'commoner' level, where, as we've both said, homosexuality in its more organised forms tends to be the reside of upper-class cliques.

>>19067642
No, this is:
http://g0ys.org/

>>19067178
hey man - you can discuss homoerotic russian lit with me if you want. i can translate some for you too. drop your discord
t. more than native

>>19067256
>you will NEVER have someone write like this to you
the horror!

>>19067896
Not him, but where did you see the homoeroticism in C&P? It's my only Dosto and I didn't grasp any. Interpreting the judge toying him as such seems like a stretch.

>>19067589
Don't worry anon, I'm lonely too. I won't say we'll all make it, because frankly I doubt it, but know that you don't suffer alone; we're all here.

>>19067969
Not the anon you’re talking to, but C&P is one of his less homoerotic/erotic works. This is also because it doesn’t have much character interaction in general. Try Demons, House of the Dead.

>>19067985
I just hope my youth doesn't fade away completely before I find love...

>>19067969
didn't really catch any such airs, but I've read it years ago as a 16yo. but in general, many golden and most silver age writers have that solemnly chaste, yet unveiled homoeroticism similar to that of Hesse or Melvill. several writers even talk about their own same-sex attractions openly in their diaries.

>>19067969
In C&P Razumikhin practically nurses Rodya to health and cares for him deeply.
Every dostoy book has intimate male friendships, hand and cheek kissing, etc. A lot of it is from the time it was written, and the culture. Now it comes off as gay because of our modern perspective. Though I could see Pyotr from demons as a gay character in dostoy’s mind (effeminate/eccentric, no female relationships, obession with stavrogin, his looks, always touching him) since he is written as an immoral character.

>>19068031
Unfathomably based Silver Age...

>>19066781
No, mine!

The blowjob in Moby Dick

>>19069206
remind us

Bump

>>19066012
I read one of his stories and it made me uncomfortable how gay it was, then I flipped through the book at random to see if it was all like that and landed on this passage.

>>19066721
Nah this is no homo stuff how people used to be. This is what actual gayness took away from us. David can't love Jonathan anymore because now he's afraid he'd be thinking of buggery.

>>19067065
Perhaps in another life, anon.

>>19065917
The entire first half of Brideshead Revisited.

>>19065917
Start with the Greeks

>>19071460
I don’t think gays are responsible but people paranoid about gays.

I'm so lonely ;_;

>>19072552
truth. it's gotta be one of my favorite books, unexpectedly insightful view of alcoholism, contrarianism and twink death.

>>19073095
not for long

The beginning of Charmides when Socrates and his friend are drooling over chad

>>19067896
Teodor#7201 not the same guy but Id be happy to talk about it.

>>19072571
Well you're wrong. Gays being normalized made fear of being seen gay a thing which just wasn't there before.

>>19065917
I need a bf

>>19073114

>>19074537
we all do 3:

>>19074545
me when i found out racism is real

>>19075121
luv you

lit chart from /cm/

>>19066012
damn, that was good

>>19075427
my mate made it. proud.

>>19065917
Anything by a right wing „thinker“. They all lust after erect cocks and the perky white juice dripping from it. Fascists are homosexuals and there is nothing wrong with that.

>>19075904
"Arachnophobic, huh? You want to fuck spiders"

>>19068052
That is such a wonderful comic strip

>>19076572
Can a Russian anon translate it

>>19074519
>Gays being normalized made fear of being seen gay a thing which just wasn't there before.
This isn’t true. For instance by the time of Kipling’s childhood the affection displayed between boys in Tom Brown’s Schooldays rang of ‘beastliness’. The fear of being seen as gay is predicated on eros between males being seen as a bad or abnormal thing, whereas for instance in Ancient Greece the entrance of eros into philia seems to have been considered a not unusual thing

>>19075904
When I was about 10 I remember my family talking about hitler and a book, it might have been a psychology book, they were talking about how they found a bunch of porn to be “burnt” in one of hitlers place, not only was there porn but a lot pics of German athletes naked. Does anyone know about this book? Or source? I always found it interesting that hitler would kill homos but had homo porn and naked male athletes.
Another thing they said was that closeted homosexuals are the most perverted people in the world that they would ruin the world because if they are homos and people know then they would be able to express some of their homosexuality but if they are closeted than their expression would manifest in the corrupting of people around them. I remember they gave the example of a 15 year old girl that is groomed by a 30-40 year old who tells her that they can’t be together and that they are only having fun that later in life she will find a husband, the girl is corrupted because she begins to expect that from other men until she feels ready to have a husband but the groomer is just a closeted homo that used her innocence to hide his homosexuality.

>>19076766
1. I wanna say you sound like gullible retard.
2. None of last part makes any sense
3. Idk if Hitler actually had a collection of pictures of German athletes, but if he did, it would be based

>>19076825
I was ten, I’m just trying to find the book. Maybe someone has read it, the second part was supposed to be in that book or a book by the same author.

>>19076697
But isnt he talking about dosto, not ancient greece.

>>19076766
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sexuality_of_Adolf_Hitler
wiki notably cites Lively's "The Pink Swastika" and Machtan's "The Hidden Hitler" both aren't really that credible. Pink Swastika is the anti-LGBT one that claims Nazi's only hated bottoms and that tops were cool. Hidden Hitler is probably the one you are looking for.
hitler probably wasn't closeted but it would've been hilarious desu

>>19067642
*the most accurate description of being a slut you'll ever read

>>19074877

>>19067642
>I was horribly sore the rest of the day. As for the sex, unlike porn it didn’t take between twenty and thirty minutes. It was far quicker. And, despite the mythology of the power-bottom, this initiation required endurance, and pain, but also submission. The sensation of purposefully trying to relax the sphincter muscles, since their proper function relayed on a constant autonomic tension, was incredibly strange. I couldn’t do it. In the midst of an attempt, my lover shoved a popper bottle under my nose. I took a hesitant whiff and my heart began to thump out of my chest. The level of intimacy was intense or coldly distant depending upon position and eye-contact. I buried my face in a blanket and then dared to look into the face of the man on top of me. There was nothing reciprocal here. Fundamentally, it was a caricature of the marital act. But I wasn’t a woman, and I didn’t have a vagina. Nothing about my physiognomy could accommodate a penis; there was no natural lubrication and it hurt until I couldn’t feel anything. At times, the experience was stinging and fecal. In our wish to find a route into manhood, we become entrapped in a cruel return to the infantine and to the diaper. Almost two decades after stopping such behavior, the most vicious joke has been on me – as today I am sometimes forced into adult protective undergarments. The boy who wanted to be a man is stuck being a baby.
woah

>>19066260
His name isn't Ishmael, that's just what ur supposed to call him. His name is Herman Melville.

>>19075904
The 50s called; they want their take back

>>19077354
I'm a virgin and this scares me...
I just wanna feel love I don't wanna go through that misery!

>>19077455
pain is pleasure. Pleasure is pain. Passion.

>>19077483
I dont want my ass leaking all over the place tho :|
I'll probably be fine, since I don't plan on being promiscuous at any time, I just wish I had a boyfriend that loved me...

>>19077518
just train and use lube.

Is there a way to be gay without the ass play?

guys you have seen the nickado picture. you have seen the nickado tweets. loose anus from anal sex or frankly any sort of anal insertion is NO JOKE. NOTHING TO PLAY AROUND WITH. DO NOT USE YOUR BUTT LIKE THAT YOU WILL REGRET IT. MARK MY WORDS YOU WILL REGRET IT

>>19077596
Yes. Oral sex, intercrural sex, etc. Personally though I just like to tie guys up, blindfold them, and overpower them with sensations. Ice cubes, feathers, vibrators, whatever. Tickling them until they beg. Then making them explode in a giant orgasm.

>>19077596
I think in ancient Greece the top would rub his thing between the bottoms thighs...
Honestly gay sex just seems like it's too big of a bother, I just want a man to talk to about stuff and cuddle with, it's painful knowing that probably won't happen, I just feel like dying...

>>19077632
I want nothing more than for a bigger man than me to just hold me in his arms and kiss me. I find anal sex repulsive, and desu I could go without the other stuff as well. I want the closeness and the feeling of safety more than anything else

>>19077596
not unless you are a square.

>>19077638
>I want nothing more than for a bigger man than me to just hold me in his arms and kiss me
>I want the closeness and the feeling of safety more than anything else
you nailed it...
I just want to cuddle and lay my head on a bigger man's chest while he caresses my hair...
aghhghghghhghhhhhhh

>>19077675
cant you get that from your mother?

>>19077686
you don't get it

>>19077675
The worst thing is that I know homosexuality is wrong and that I shouldn't want to do it, but I do.

>>19077697
How about your father?

>>19077708
>>19077675
You know, historically men would sleep communally until maybe the 1600s or thereabouts. there was even a story of some islanders coming to britan in the 1800s and were given separate rooms. they thought they were being punished for something. And these big strong hunting men said "what If I have a nightmare, THere will be noone there I can talk too"

For much of human history indiviguization was seen as a luxery for the extremely wealthy. and even then often times they would live very close together in the same bed even as half their family. seems like you guys are just indiviguised by society. Even going up into the 1800s it as common to rent a bed with an absolute stranger without any sexuality implied (though I assume some happened)

>>19077708
>I know homosexuality is wrong
Why do you think that anon

>>19077727
God said so

>>19065935
This is explained in Pierre in depth; Hawthorne plants seeds in his literature. Upon reading Hawthorne, one would appear to be encounter irrelevant, pretentious verbosity with little sense of reality and un-serious theology, only for the truth of The Scarlet Letter or The House of Green Gables to flash through your mind a month, a week, maybe even a year or more later and then you realize Hawthorne's brillance and how these flashes created unfathomable truths about human existence that put Hawthorne among the peak of prose literature. The only other planters in American history (Melville and Henry James are the peak in the other direction, since his truths are immediately obvious, but honestly superior since they tangibly impact the reader more immediately and thus more powerfully) are Nabokov and TS Eliot..... AND HP Lovecraft, if you reason him with yourself.

>>19077717
Could be. I am 20 and I can't sleep without a teddy bear or something else to hold onto.

>>19077730
I converted to Catholicism as a LARP for a while and was celibate dunno why I thought I ever had reason to believe in god though lol

>no Swinburne

>>19077708
same, but it's also kind of tricky.
I have only ever been in love with men, and these are serious feelings too. I once had a dream I layed my head on the shoulder of a guy I liked at the time, and it was the best feeling I have ever felt...
I've just never had such a connection towards a woman, I don't know how I ever could. I really can't tell what God wants from me...
>>19077710
nope, that's weird and gross

>>19077738
I'm Eastern Orthodox not Catholic. I have very little problem with remaining celibate, but the possibility of being alone forever makes me want to rope myself

>>19077735
Here is a video on the subject If you are interested: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C16L3Z8oI_E

Lindy is often retarded, but he does delve into interesting topics.

>>19077750
I am Eastern Orthodox too, and I have the exact same fear :0
I don't feel connected to anyone, maybe I never will, maybe my love fantasy is just that, a fantasy, that really brings me dread, makes me feel like it's all over and I have already died.
I really don't know how I am still alive

>>19077775
Do you ever feel completely dead, spiritually speaking? I do sometimes. I know that God is real, but I don't really feel it, there is no sense of urgency. As far as the loneliness fears go it's horrible. I am not cut out for being a monk, I obviously can't have my same sex relationship, and if I were to marry a woman it would be complete unfair to both of us. I don't really know what to do.

>>19077782
>I know that God is real
Agnostic ex-Cath homo anon here. I don’t mean to ask this in a hostile why, but what gives you this certainty? It’s something I never had

>>19077789
Well there has to be an Unmoved Mover to start the universe. It's really late where I'm at so I'm sorry you're not going to get much discussion from me

>>19077708
That's because you're prudent. Homosexuality is intrinsically wrong. Doesn't mean you're evil or a bad person. You should give yourself some credit for at least acknowledging that it's wrong instead of going full Grindr mode. Without religion, you can easily prove homosexuality wrong. Nothing is gained from gay sex. There's no procreation, there's no real love, there's nothing. Just "feels good in my head." But you know that you don't do things only because they feel good because otherwise you would just smoke crack all the time to feel good all the time. You know there's moderation, temperance in life. Then religion comes in and completely solves it for you. Look into traditional Catholicism. Good luck and God bless bro

I'll convert to your larp religion when I'm 35 like Oscar Wilde

>>19066721
it wouldn't surprise me if pyotr was a fag, he is basically pure evil incarnate with no redeemable qualities. it actually fits his character perfectly

>>19077354
the dude was a slut, this doesn't happen if you do it with a monogamous partner (I personally won't be doing that type of sex)

>>19077820
>there's no real love
Why do you say this?

>>19077782
I sometimes just go in the bathroom and cry until I can't cry anymore. I just dont know why God doesn't want me to be in love, I seriously can't understand how some of the most pure feelings I have ever felt are somehow sinful, makes me bitter about Christianity as a whole, even tho I know it is the one true answer to everything.
I honestly sometimes just feel like going to a gay bar, since the loneliness becomes unbearable, but who am I kidding? I am too shy for something like that, and most people there are probably either complete freaks, or if they are handsome they probably just want me for one night...
I kind of just fantasize about stuff, I have a fantasy I replay over and over in my head. I also listen to The Smiths, idk maybe this is cringey but I feel like Morrissey really understands me...
I sometimes just feel like the days are passing by and I keep thinking, "tomorrow something will change and I will meet the love of my life", but that obviously never happens. Makes me feel like I live for nothing, nothing really brings me joy, and I feel unmotivated to go on.
"Does my life really just boil down to this, over and over again? when will something change?"
there's nothing exciting, nothing to look forward to, I have no one I truly feel like talking to, I don't even like myself. It's all so empty and meaningless.

>>19077837
Because real love has a destination. Love always begets life. Gay love is a fetish and anal sex is literally larping for real love. It'll never achieve the real thing. It'll always be a fantasy fueled by concupiscence.

>>19077820
I was one of the people who was posting about my disinterest in actual sex, I just know that even wanting to kiss and cuddle with other guys is still wrong. As for tradcath no thanks, I'm going to be received into the Orthodox Church this winter

>mfw reading this thread and observing all the mental damage Abrahamism is doing to the lonely gay boys ITT

>>19077848
Are you me? I was writing in my diary last night how I'd never do anything irl so I read my Oscar Wilde and listen to the Smiths and just imagine it in my head.

>>19077834
>this doesn't happen if you do it with a monogamous partner
It definitely still happens. The human anus simply didn't evolve to have things repeatedly going in and out of it.

>>19077865
Omg I love being a faggot pagan now!

>>19077876
People don't do it everyday, I sure if you did it every few months you won't fuck up your body
>>19077859
So those straight couples that can't have kids aren't in love?

>>19077865
werent Muslims famous sodomites too?

>>19077882
If you're Catholic, you shouldn't have sex, and you can't, if either partner is impotent or infertile.

>>19077882
they are, and their love is correletive with the natural habit.

>>19077885
Muslims will throw men off of a roof for being fags and then go home and rape a little boy. They're fucked

>>19077865
>Being gay is good for battle, we say
>Gets owned by Christians into literal oblivion
I'm thinking cringe

>>19077869
"There's a club if you'd like to go
You could meet somebody who really loves you
So you go and you stand on your own
And you leave on your own
And you go home and you cry
And you want to die"

>>19077859
You say the homosexuality is demonstrably wrong outside of Christianity, but when asked why you respond with thickly Christian language and assumptions. When people talk about ‘love’ they are not generally describing some cold teleology. An infertile couple, for instance, will never achieve ‘procreative’ goods, but even the most coldly intellectual Scholastic will concede that their relationship—including its sexual component—instantiates the ‘unitive’ goods of marriage. Not to mention the fact that homosexual couples can partake in the admirable social good of raising abandoned and orphaned children, and the vast majority of studies have shown that children are no worse off than they would be if raised by heterosexual couples.
>>19077887
>If you're Catholic, you shouldn't have sex, and you can't, if either partner is impotent or infertile.
This isn’t true

>>19077865
>boys
We're all men here, fuck off pedo

>>19077893
There weren’t any ‘battles’ between Christians and Hellenists, just a cultural decline into infantile nihilistic religious oblivion. It is like saying that modernity is automatically better for having replaced Christendom

>>19077901
Twinks who cry while listening to the smiths and hug teddies in bed are boys not men anon

>>19077887
>>19077890
God hates me so there's no point in converting until I'm on my deathbed

>>19077906
in all fairness, I hug my pillow, not a teddy!

>>19077903
Wrong because no one actually follows ancient Greek mythology and their gay beliefs while today, although modernist, still has extreme Christian demographics

>>19077913
ok, just make sure you are sincere about it. might be hard so many years after when your heart is conflicted.

>>19077820
Fuck off christfag. We're gonna sodomize your children too

>>19077896
A gay couple can never, ever replace a heterosexual parentage. It's all larp. A cheap imitation of real love that they will never be able to replicate, no matter how hard it's shoved down their throats, no homo.
>>19077896
It's in catechism. You can't have sex with an infertile that's literally just jacking off with a body involved, just like gay sex. It's all fake.

>>19077926
You have hope, too. You're not a lost cause

>>19077882
You shouldn't be doing it in any case. It's gross and not spiritually fulfilling.

>>19077927
>You can't have sex with an infertile that's literally just jacking off with a body involved
No, why are you completely discounting the woman’s enjoyment? God Christians are such prudes

>>19077927
>A gay couple can never, ever replace a heterosexual parentage. It's all larp. A cheap imitation of real love that they will never be able to replicate
You can say this over and over but it doesn’t necessarily mean your words correspond to any actual reality. Presumably if same-sex parents were inferior homemakers and childrearers it would show empirically. And even if they were inferior, it would still be much better to be raised by an inferior monogamous couple than to be raised by none at all.
>It's in catechism. You can't have sex with an infertile
Source? This completely contradicts my years of experience of orthodox Catholic life and conversation, where a priori it has always taken for granted that infertile heterosexual married couples are allowed to have sex. They might not be allowed to *get* married if they know *for certain* they’re infertile beforehand, but that’s a different thing. I get the feeling you’re one of those Internet Catholics that doesn’t attend church

>>19077932
Read my other post >>19077913

>>19077931
Fuck off. I'm a proud child-molesting sodomite

>>19077938
>it would show empirically.
how can an average person prove or disprove this?

>>19077891
different branches of muslim then. because they had love poems to buttboys in their twilight years between the golden age and the modern age.

>>19077937
Don't be a cheap coward. It's the same if the guy is impotent. He can't get married. More to life than "ugh I just want to get off tonight." One day you'll grow up out of your American pie/playboy fantasies
>>19077938
You can only have sex if it's possible that conception will happen. Don't try and disparage me when this is one of the fundamentals in marriage and sexuality you bozo, post-conciliar charlatan.
And no you can't have healthy same sex parents, it's an oxymoron. The kid will have fucked up view on proper men/female roles

>>19077962
So sex with one’s wife can never be for pleasure
Am I reading this right

>>19077973
Absolutely correct, coomer. Did I just redpill you? Let me guess, you're pro contraception and pro choice

>>19077848
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i12PHJRJTVA
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CmqL_mPx06Q
you'll find your own love anon, i believe in you.

>>19077975
You’re retarded

>>19077993
Enjoy hell, degenerate

>>19077962
>>19077975
Except in Catholicism sex between husband and wife is supposed to be pleasurable, and the pleasure is good.

>>19078006
Heaven is for Mormons, c*topics and pr*testants burn forever

>>19078017
Those are all side effects, not the reason WHY to have sex. Sex is GOOD, not evil. Have the intentions correct and the rest is absolutely divine

>>19077962
>You can only have sex if it's possible that conception will happen.
>And no you can't have healthy same sex parents, it's an oxymoron. The kid will have fucked up view on proper men/female roles
So you would rather children be raised in group homes or go through the foster care system, where they are demonstrably much more likely to end up with drug, crime, sex and employment problems, than to be raised by two men or two women in a stable monogamous home?

>>19078021
Yeah a spinoff of Protestantism is surely correct. Don't mind the 1800 years of apostolic origin, primacy of Peter, tradition, and direct words of Christ Jesus

>>19078024
fucking lol man.
Be careful how you eat you lunch today, you might enjoy it too much! (BAD!)

>>19078025
Catholics invented orphanages. Catholicism will lead to less children born out of wedlock. Two evils don't cause a good, read Paul.

>>19078044
Actually true, you're learning well. Don't be a glutton, eat in moderation, don't be a fat slob and eat for pure pleasure. Anything else I can redpill you with today?

>>19078048
I am anorexic lol.
I am calling you a spastic.

>>19077962
>You can only have sex if it's possible that conception will happen.
Completely false. The correct Catholic teaching is that as long as you nut in your wife, w/o contraception and birth control, you're all good.

>>19077609
>>19077632
fellow homoerotic kings. i love male nudity and sensual mannerbund, but not dicks or man ass. just wanna coom socratically, for fucks sake.

p. s. let's say you meet a unicorn, a passing interesting ftm. would you try out the mangina?

>>19078102
get away you fucking bitch, you won't ruin this too.

>>19078108
just tryna derail the the millionth "gays vs christposters" argument with some bait

>>19078122
I hate women.

>>19078102
Based mannerbund tranny. I wanna be friends

"Tops" and "bottoms" are a meme designed to imitate fifties heterosexual relationship dynamics.
An*l passages aren't naturally lubricated and require tedious preparation; where is the sensuality and spontaneity in that!?
Don't be a needy "bottom," there are too many of you! Forgo your need for your assertive "top" bf to open doors for you, buy you things and treat you like a woman!
Be a man, and love your fellow men! Suck dick, frot, tickle each other, cuddle, take turns on each other. It's based.

>>19078155
your wish shall be fulfilled.

>>19078833
>tfw no QT switch BF
Why even live?

>>19078833
But I don't wanna bottom, it feels weird

this thread is so gay wtf

>>19077354
Lmao he doesn't get pleasure from anal sex that's all, but he talks about it like it's the case for everybody, when in reality he's just a frigid bitch and coping. He describes anal as being strange and painful but that's because he doesn't know how to use his ass, there are certain people who aren't sensitive to anal sex and nothing can be done about it. Then there are certain people who are. It's definitely sex and it's definitely pleasurable AS FUCK. Anal = the most intense orgasms and the most amazing sensations, AND I'm biologically female before you say I'm coping cause I don't have a vagina. Or whatever it is he said. I fucking love anal sex.

>>19079043
then don't

>>19079198
is this the famed Gayden? i swear there's only two kinds of androphilic ftms, the ayden fagwhore and the vaguely bisexual volcel

>>19077906
I'm 20 and male, that makes me a man

>>19079198
Tranny hands typed this

>>19075427
Kek almost the entire Greek canon is on this chart.

>>19079246
>Tranny hands
I am an autoandrophile I would never transition. I'll stay a tomboy and fuck bisexual men who are into tomboys (aristocratic taste).

>>19079198
>>19079315
ok based

>>19079198
>>19079315
I hate women so fucking much. Go away bitch.

>>19079198
Disgust picture, disgusting post.

>>19079405
gender is fake

>>19079411
Gender is fake and patriarchy is real

>>19079426
there is no ethical consumption under late stage capitalism

>>19079315
are you the AAP girl that ghosted me on discord haha
based btw. i hope you keep posting

>>19077848
C U T E

U

T

E

>>19077848
You dont know how badly I want ot kiss and hug you

>>19078833
The idea of the top and the bottom and the belief that all homosexual relationships have to begin and end with anal intercourse seem to be nothing short of heteronormative coping; the belief that any romantic relationship has to fit the frame of penetrator - penetrated.

>>19065917
This one.

>>19076237
I wonder though...do you think maybe they do in some strange way. Not that they actually want to fuck spiders, but that their intense fear of spiders (far above the average) is a repression of some sort of desire--not for spiders per se but something somehow psychologically related to them.

>>19079198
Basado

>>19078046
Do you know what happens in orphanages?

>>19077354
>hook up with big city faggots for a one night fuck
>there was no love in it
>tries to tie in a Freudian analysis of anal sex that is untenable according to his religion
>colors his past experiences with his current catholicism and self-disgust
It's all propaganda

>>19079942
arachnophobes dont obsess over spiders nor go out of their way to bring up spiders.

>>19079988
this man gets it. why are catholic converts so laughably bad at gay sex?

>>19079988
>>19079895
>>19079198
>>19078833
You guys all gross me out. Anal sex is disgusting. I want my platonic homosexual relationship and I want it now

>>19080174
Ill give you all the platonic love and kisses anon. But eventually Ill get your ass too, its just a matter of time.

>>19080187
No, asses are gross. Why would you want to stick your cock in one?

>>19080174
Two of those posts literally condemn anal sex.

>>19080174
this will be us in a year.

>>19080174
Anon you stupid bitch go re-read my post and then come back to me.

>>19065917
I'm reading Dreamcatcher right now, and Owen keeps calling Henry "beautiful"

dudes calling other dudes sappy-lovey nicknames gets me every time

>>19079932
beautiful

>>19066012
This is fucking terrible

>>19080487
No I have long hair

Another bit from Memoirs of Hadrian, for good measure, since this thread seems to have derailed a bit.

>But I hesitated still about where to place the tomb. I recalled that in ordering rites of apotheosis everywhere, with funeral games, issues of coins, and statues in the public squares, I had made an exception for Rome, fearing to augment that animosity which more or less surrounds any foreign favorite. I told myself that I should not always be there to protect that sepulchre. The monument envisaged at the gates of Antinoopolis seemed too public also, and far from safe. I followed the priests' advice. On a mountainside in the Arabic range, some three leagues from the new city, they indicated to me one of those caverns formerly intended by Egypt's kings to serve as their funeral vaults. A team of oxen drew the sarcophagus up that grade; it was lowered with ropes to those subterranean corridors, and was then slid into position to lean against a wall of rock. The youth from Claudiopolis was descending into the tomb like a Pharaoh, or a Ptolemy. There we left him, alone. He was entering upon that endless tenure, without air, without light, without change of season, compared with which every life seems short; such was the stability to which he had attained, such perhaps was the peace. Centuries as yet unborn within the dark womb of time would pass by thousands over that tomb without restoring life to him, but likewise without adding to his death, and without changing the fact that he had been.

>>19080974
You Will Cut It.

>>19081091
No I won't, then I would be sad and you don't want me to be sad, do you anon?

>>19081171
seems like i have no other choice but to daydream about a long-haired anon i've only ever interacted with once.

>>19067642
Shouldn't shoved a 9 inch dick inside him like the slut he is.

>>19081455
It does seem to be more of an Unprepared Promiscuous Slut-issue.

>>19079845
>>19079873
Hvghvvfffttgvffederddchjjjtffggtthjf

>>19066012
Two guys wrestling, whats the big deal?

>>19077913
He loves you anon, don't listen to the demons

>>19081981
You don't know if He loves you or not, and even if He doesn't love you He is still good. You don't deserve anything.

>>19077913
Try not being a christcuck.

>>19077848
It'll get better anon
It is always darkest just before the Day dawneth

>>19067642
God damn bro

> During the procedure, a section of my rectum was removed due to the existence of severe internal scarring. Like an imprisoned victim of the Marques de Sade, my sphincters had been sewn shut with thick cording. The doctor and nurse gave me a long list of stool softeners and laxatives to take with copious quantities of water in order to make it possible that I could have a bowel movement through an inconceivably narrow orifice. The precautions didn’t work, and I busted the stitches. To stop the bleeding, I stuck a hand towel down my shorts and went to the emergency room. With my back to the waiting room wall, amongst the coughing children and light-headed elderly patients, the blood began to seep through my pants.

>>19066209
My great-grandfather and grand-uncle had old biblical names like that: Ishmael and Naiman. Pretty common in hillbilly culture a while back. Also, my entire family is white.

>>19082002
He does love you, He was crucified for you. I know it hard for guys like us but you have to keep hope

>>19082294
We don't need to keep hope, we need to keep fear.

>>19082323
We need both. Fear God's reprisals if we don't repent, but have hope that we can. Stay strong brother

>Sappho, Sophocles, Anacreon, Theognis, Ibycus, Pindar, Socrates, Alcibiades, Callimachus, Bion, Nossis, Theocritus, Catullus, Tibullus, Meleager, Horace, Petronius, Martial, Qu Yuan, Bai Juyi, Ruan Ji, Xi Kang, Abu Nuwas, Al-Tifashi, Hilarius, Marbodius of Rennes, Baudri of Bourgueil, Hildebert of Lavardin, Judah Halevi, Judah Al-Harizi, Sa'di, Ibn Quzman, al-Jahiz, Khusrau, Hafez, Cosmico, Aretino, Poliziano, Buonaccorsi, Ficino, Cellini, Varchi, Tasso, Donatello, Leonardo, Michelangelo, Caravaggio, Sodoma, de Viau, Ihara Saikaku, Barnfield, Marlowe, Shakespeare, Erasmus, Bacon, King James, Katherine Philips, Aphra Benn, Frederick the Great, Byron, von Platen, Holderlin, Walpole, Winckelmann, Adolf Brand, Ludwig II, Tchaikovsky, Hans Christian Andersen, Whitman, Rimbaud, Verlaine, Lorrain, Dickinson, Stefan George, Pater, Wilde, Mann, Gide, Proust, Genet, Auden, Housman, Hopkins, Forster, Woolf, Wittgenstein, Henry James, Maugham, Pessoa, TE Lawrence, Gertrude Stein, H.D., Murdoch, Yourcenar, Montherlant, Cocteau, Pasolini, Waugh, Kuzmin, Cavafy, Lorca, Roy Campbell, White, Mishima, Barthes, Foucault, Crane, Ginsberg, Baldwin, Vidal, Capote, Isherwood, Burroughs

the whole risking your life to collect sperm, huh.

bump

The Things They Carried had a straightforward reference to some guys' relationship but never called it that. remember it vividly.

The bisexual threesome in BEE's Glamorama.

>>19084881
why is a bisexual threesome a tell-tale sign of kino?

>>19067418
>>19067372
>>19067246
>>19067160
*flops beside u and nuzzles*

>>19065917
There's a scene in Falconer by John Cheever where the guy talks about how many varieties and variations of penis there are and how each guy has a unique dick.

>>19085142
you should have posted the ones with fujoshi girls instead brah

>>19085154
>Falconer by John Cheever
>Stunning and brutally powerful, Falconer tells the story of a man named Farragut, his crime and punishment, and his struggle to remain a man
the annotation looks like a literal litizen wrote it for the keks

>>19085142
I don't look like that :|

that one scene in Dominated by Doug where - on second thoughts I don't want to spoil it for you
Is it really ok to be gay? I love my boyfriend deeply but I hate sodomy

>>19085709
Don't stick your dick in his anus then you moron

Have had a bad day and am lonely lads. God I wish I had someone to cuddle with.

>>19086161
Post your Discord then uwu

>>19086174
Don't have one, just attention whoring because I feel lonely ;_;

>>19066721
>"Madam!" whispered Stavogrin.

>>19086210
There's not much I can do about that, anon. Go outside and get a bf.

All my problems would go away if I had a strong handsome older boyfriend to cuddle with and talk with and to give him my body...

>>19084909
good show, i havent finished it does it get better?

>>19084909
because people against bisexual threesomes are cowards, too obsessed with the secular world to accept what nature intended. pleasure is divine.

>>19086383
I'd love to make out with a cute twink curled up in my arms so bad...

>>19086389
it's strange, but insanely funny. the second season was absolutely over the top imo, sorrentino just overblew all of his quirks and mixed in too much bullshit. there were great scenes in it, better than the first season, but overall level of tomfuckery makes it meh. i have some better "nefarious clergy and devilish church politics" recs if you want
>>19086428
based and greekpilled. bi is the way.

>>19086428
So based.

>>19086442
aaaghhghghhhhhhh :((

Stop being so thirsty, anons.

>‘Volodya! Volodya! The Ivins!’ I started to yell on seeing out of the window three boys in fitted blue overcoats with beaver collars crossing over to our house from the other side of the street behind their foppish tutor. The Ivins were relatives of ours and nearly the same age. We had made their acquaintance and become friends shortly after our arrival in Moscow. The second Ivin, Seryozha, was a swarthy, curly-haired, snub-nosed boy with beautiful dark-blue eyes, very fresh red lips that rarely covered his slightly protruding upper row of white teeth and an exceptionally lively expression on his face. He never smiled but either gazed with complete seriousness or heartily laughed his sharp, ringing, extraordinarily appealing laugh. His unique beauty struck me at once. I felt an irresistible attraction to him. Seeing him was enough to make me happy, and all the powers of my soul were for a time concentrated on that desire: whenever I happened to pass three or four days without seeing him, I started to miss him and grew sad to the point of tears. All my dreams, asleep and awake, were of him; going to bed, I wanted to dream of him; closing my eyes, I saw him before me and cherished that apparition as the finest of pleasures. There was no one in the world in whom I would have confided that feeling, so much did I treasure it. But either because he was getting tired of my restless eyes staring at him all the time, or because he simply had no real liking for me, he clearly enjoyed playing and talking with Volodya more. But I was content, even so, and wished for and required nothing and was ready to sacrifice everything for him. Besides the passionate attraction he inspired, his presence awoke in me another, equally strong feeling – the fear of upsetting him or offending or displeasing him in some way, perhaps because his face had a haughty expression, or because in my contempt for my own looks I had too high a regard for the advantages of beauty in others, or, most likely, because my feeling for him contained as much fear in it as it did adoration – a sure sign of love. The first time Seryozha spoke to me, I was so abashed by the sheer unexpected happiness of it that I turned pale and then red and couldn’t answer anything. He had the bad habit when absorbed in thought of focusing his gaze on a single point and blinking and twitching his nose and eyebrows. Everyone was of the opinion that the habit spoiled his looks, but I found it so appealing that I involuntarily started to do the same thing myself, and a few days after I had made his acquaintance, Grandmother asked me if my eyes didn’t hurt, since I was blinking like an eagle owl.

>>19086605
>No words of affection ever passed between us, but he sensed his power over me and made unconscious but tyrannical use of it in our relations, while I, however much I wanted to tell him everything that was in my heart, was too afraid of him for such candour. I pretended not to care and submitted uncomplainingly. Sometimes his influence was an intolerable burden for me, but freeing myself of it was beyond my power. It’s sad for me to recall that fresh, beautiful feeling of unselfish and boundless love that died without ever expressing itself or finding a sympathetic response. Strange how as a child I tried to be like a grown-up, but that ever since I stopped being a child, I’ve often wanted to be childlike. How many times did the desire not to be like a little boy in my relations with Seryozha check the feeling that was ready to express itself and make me dissemble instead? Not only did I dare not kiss him, a thing that I sometimes very much wanted to do while taking his hand in mine and telling him how happy I was to see him, but I didn’t even dare to use his diminutive ‘Seryozha’, invariably calling him ‘Sergey’ instead, as we were all accustomed to doing. Every expression of sensitivity was taken as proof of childishness and of the fact that whoever allowed it in himself was still a ‘little boy’. Not yet experienced through the bitter trials that lead adults to caution and reserve in their relationships, we deprived ourselves of the pure pleasures of tender childhood attachment, merely from the strange desire to be like ‘grown-ups’.

From Tolstoy's "Childhood, Boyhood, Youth"

>>19086605
>>19086611
:''(

>>19086704
Here's more for you, gayboy.

>Both of them carried their satchels across their shoulders and both were well and warmly dressed: Hans in a short sailor jacket, with the wide blue collar of his sailor suit turned out over shoulders and back, and Tonio in a belted grey overcoat. Hans wore a Danish sailor cap with black ribbons, beneath which streamed a shock of straw-coloured hair. He was uncommonly handsome and well built, broad in the shoulders and narrow in the hips, with keen, far-apart, steel-blue eyes; while beneath Tonio's round fur cap was a brunette face with the finely chiselled features of the south; the dark eyes, with delicate shadows and too heavy lids, looked dreamily and a little timorously on the world. Tonio's walk was idle and uneven, whereas the other's slim legs in their black stockings moved with an elastic, rhythmic tread.
>Tonio did not speak. He suffered. His rather oblique brows were drawn together in a frown, his lips were rounded to whistle, he gazed into space with his head on one side. Posture and manner were habitual.
>Suddenly Hans shoved his arm into Tonio's, with a sideways look-he knew very well what the trouble was. And Tonio, though he was silent for the next few steps, felt his heart soften.
>"I hadn't forgotten, you see, Tonio," Hans said, gazing at the pavement, "I only thought it wouldn't come off today because it was so wet and windy. But I don't mind that at all, and it's jolly of you to have waited. I thought you had gone home, and I was cross...."
>Everything in Tonio leaped and jumped for joy at the words.
>"All right; let's go over the wall," he said with a quaver in his voice. "Over the Miliwall and the Holstenwall, and I'll go as far as your house with you, Hans. Then I'll have to walk back alone, but that doesn't matter; next time you can go round my way."

>>19086989
>At bottom he was not really convinced by what Hans said; he quite knew the other attached less importance to this walk than he did himself. Yet he saw Hans was sorry for his remissness and willing to be put in a position to ask pardon, a pardon that Tonio was far indeed from withholding.

>The truth was, Tonio loved Hans Hansen, and had already suffered much on his account. He who loves the more is the inferior and must suffer; in this hard and simple fact his fourteenyear-old soul had already been instructed by life; and he was so organized that he received such experiences consciously, wrote them down as it were inwardly, and even, in a certain way, took pleasure in them, though without ever letting them mould his conduct, indeed, or drawing any practical advantage from them. Being what he was, he found this knowledge far more important and far more interesting than the sort they made him learn in schools; yes, during his lesson hours in the vaulted Gothic classrooms he was mainly occupied in feeling his way about among these intuitions of his and penetrating them. The process gave him the same kind of satisfaction as that he felt when he moved about in his room with his violin-for he played the violin-and made the tones, brought out as softly as ever he knew how, mingle with the plashing of the fountain that leaped and danced down there in the garden beneath the branches of the old walnut tree.

From Thomas Mann's "Tonio Kröger"

>tfw no well-read daddy professor to read books with
why live?

>>19087013
Wouldn't advise dating anyone more than a decade outside of your age range, anon.

>>19065917
Picture of Dorian Grey. Every scene.

>>19087013
I'm not normally into the daddy type, but Chekhov, with all his simple elegance and outward intelligence, sans the snobism, makes me feel funny. the ultimate older Prof lover.

>>19087028
Chekhov wasn't even old, he died at 44.

>>19087035
still older than me. god, why do the based ones have to die early.

>>19067642

This dude can write.

What a despicable way of life these people lead.

>>19087013
I want this too :((

>>19079315
I kneel

>>19076619
roughly:
>Razumikhin? . . .
>Oh, you woke up! Don't get up, need any water? How do you feel? You were hugging (? can't figure out the handwriting) your sock while delirious. I'll go get Zosimov
>How long have you been here?
>Two days!
>. . .
>Just go already, I don't deserve such care
>How can I leave you here, alone and ill?

>>19087711
Thanks Russanon

>>19077848
just stop being homophobic lmao

>>19087804
It's not homophobia it's the truth. Christianity is right and I am wrong, but it's a hard thing to accept.

>>19087927
How do you know that Christianity is right and you are wrong?

>>19087940
Because homosexuality is fruitless and homosexuals are some of the most mentally ill people on earth

>>19087949
That doesn't mean homosexuality is wrong, let alone that Christianity is correct. All of that could easily be explained as this world being fallen and no place for noble or even normal things.

>homosexuality is fruitless
Only in regard to children, yes.

>>19087960
I can't explain it in words but I know it in my bones that Christianity is true. Even when I was an atheist or a pagan I would sometimes get this underlying feeling that Christ was calling. As for homosexuality being wrong I think both of those things pretty clearly prove that it is

>>19087985
I know that feeling, too; it's purely psychological. Having been raised a Christian, in a Christian culture, with Christian parents, and a Christian system that makes itself seem inevitable, creates a convincing and easy way of interpreting the world, and makes any apostasy seem like a "phase," it's purely your own weakness. "Deeper feelings" betray no truth, only how you feel. I'm just looking for a higher standard of truth; obviously, Christianity cannot be proven empirically or rationally (beyond a shadow of any doubt, there could always be a different hypothesis or explanation), so there must be a different kind of knowledge whereby we prove such a spiritual, eternal thing.

>I think both of those things pretty clearly prove that it is
It doesn't prove anything, it just shows that there are many homosexuals that are mentally ill, whatever your source for that may be, and for whatever reason these individuals may be mentally ill (you presume it is just their homosexuality)

>>19087985
maybe you are just kinda retarded anon anyways is not like you can stop being a faggot so you might as well just accept it even if not as an entirely "good" thing

>>19088009
My parents weren't religious and I was raised entirely secularly in an environment that was nothing but supportive of my tendencies

>>19088106
That still leaves the many points I brought up. Face it, the psychological reality of things always remains with a religion as prominent as Christianity, and feeling means nothing when looking for the truth. At the very most it will mean something to you, but it is entirely subjective, in no way "proof" for an objective truth

>>19088159
That's demonic

>>19065917
Ishmael and Queequeg are the best.

Gefühl ist alles

>>19087949
Homosexuals are also some of the most accomplished and productive >>19082592

>>19088369
I could make a giant list of straight people that did a bunch of cool stuff, and even if I couldn't, material success means nothing if you're going to Hell

>>19088329
more Queerqueg

>>19088395
Sure, but you were saying that mental illness among homosexuals is some sort of proof of homosexuality’s being intrinsically wrong, but the same sort of argument (positive phenomena associated with homosexuals) could be used in the opposite direction. The priesthood seems to attract a disproportionate number of homosexuals, but it does not therefore follow that priesthood is immoral.

>>19067642
>The most fanatical devotees were those who imagined becoming infected with HIV by a positive “gift-giver.” The utter impossibility of impregnation through gay sex left a subconscious feeling of lifelessness within all those involved. The replacement was the infusion of a charged particle within semen that could potentially penetrate the membrane of every cell. Subsequently, forever changing the recipient.

>>19087927
cuck mentality, excuse me for using that word. christianity is worship of a deceitful god if they claim eternal kindness and love while subjecting people who havent wronged others to constant suffering just... just because, mkay? maybe some people are destinied to suffer because that's what god wanted while making them this way.

>>19087804
Fuck off retard.

>>19088354
based onegin connoisseur
>>19088329
a cultured man, i see.. i wish more illustrators of Melvill's era drew them just being canonical buds, but drawings of highly skilled teenagers will do just as well

>>19087804
>>19087927
I wouldn't be surprised if both of you wwre straight, the way you argue about this stuff. You people have no idea what homosexuality is.

>>19090059
I mean I have had relations with other men in the past

>>19090059
stop acting like homosexuality is such an important thing

>>19091029
When did I do that?

>one chance at life
>ugly gay
lol

>>19091571
your only path left is to get rich now. godspeed.