/lit/ - Literature

>>19037681
Hop a top bumble bop a berry
Boop a doop bumble dimpe derry
Hoppity bop bam dindle a ferry
Brap brap brap brapy bripy

Catholicism, war, and autism.

>>19037681
patience, knowledge, love and dedication

>>19037707
Cringe and Blue Pilled
>>19037706
Based and red pilled

>Also I can recommend this as an exercise (alas! only too easy to find opportunity for): make your Communion in circumstances that affront your taste. Choose a snuffling or gabbling priest or a proud and vulgar friar; and a church full of the usual bourgeois crowd, ill-behaved children—from those who yell to those products of Catholic schools who the moment the tabernacle is opened sit back and yawn—open-necked and dirty youths, women in trousers and often with hair both unkempt and uncovered. Go to Communion with them (and pray for them).

What did Tolkien mean by this???

>>19037681
One notable thing he did was ignore the literary establishment's tastemakers.

>>19037681
By cumming on sigils until a publisher accepted

>>19038076
Women in trousers should be unironically illegal

>>19037681
Elves are real. Tolkien was a seer who could look into the past and actually wrote down the history as it actually was. Everything in the Sil is canon to reality

>>19038076
>What did Tolkien mean by this???

Here Comes Everybody

>>19038167
i love tolkien's work more than others because he almost made it into a puzzle/game (like Myst, or Fez) in terms of understanding his lore. He would leave clues all over the place, add changes to the lore but then never erase the old lore, merely add onto it. All this while at the same time leaving clues in other writings about his views on what myth and mythology actually is (as you noted, he thought of it as history and not as just made up stories).
He was telling a story, but on different levels, a surface story that everyone is familiar with, but then as one reads the Histories and all his notes that never made it into Silmarillion, there's so much room for debate (which is really fun) about what Tolkien was talking about.

Other fantasy stories, while good in their own ways never quite get to the level of argument about what the author was intending. (or if they do reach that level, they aren't good in some other area that Tolkien was good at. He basically brought high level content in various facets of storying writing)

>>19038167
>Elves are rea
Don't even get me started on Orcs. LOL.

>>19038076
>women in trousers
Holy shit. Tolkien was to pure for this world.

>>19038142

>>19038813
do it. Or i will.

>>19038167
where is my dark elf maid gf then?

>>19038866
>girl is in a skirt
C'mon are you even trying?

>>19038992
That’s a full on dress. And she can shoot you for enforcing a fucked dress code if she wants.

>>19038992
>girl
I guess anything is possible

>>19039009

>>19039001
Yeah? Well this anime girl has a grenade and she'll blow you up for threatening me.

Orcs are actually descended from Dwarves, not Elves.
there's multiple versions but the Elves always said they didn't know with 100% certainty where they came from.
Spawning from mud pits was speculated, spawning from Elves (the popular version), from humans, but in none of the versions was it said for certain.

The Elves never mentioned Dwarves though (an interesting lapse, since they would make such an obvious choice, given the many similarities between Dwarves and Orcs). They even make the jump from Elves being the origin to humans being the origin (skipping over the dwarves).

All the Elves knew is that many of the elves were kidnapped and never seen from again. That's it. None of the Elves ever returned to give a detailed story.
The speculation that it was humans was rejected by the elves because they realized that the appearance of orcs preceded that of humans by too great a time.
But dwarves were created even before the Elves, which makes them a possible candidate.
Other similarities between Dwarves and Orcs:
1. both exclusively reside in caves (elves only rarely lived in caves)
2. both were originally short (orcs only grew taller after being interbred with men)
3. both hated Elves
4. both worshiped a demiurgic god (Aule and Melkor might as well be twins, or the same person, their powers are so similar)
5. Sindarin Elves used to hunt Petty Dwarves (like Mim) because they thought they were orcs.
6. Thror (or Thrain?), after the expulsion of the Dwarves from Khazad-dum by the Balrog and orcs, would still frequently wander the city of Moria, and the Orcs would avoid him, until finally the leader of the Orcs (azog i think it was) killed him. This event started the (Civil) War of the Dwarves and Orcs, which Thorin took part in.

>>19039049
I came to this conclusion independently as well; I guess it must be true. Additional evidence: the Dwarvish word for Wizard, meaning lit. “Old Man,” is “Tharkûn;” the Orcish word, having the same multiple meanings, is “Sharkû;” clear evolution of “Th” to “S” to “Sh” sound, plus dropping a late consonant. Very intuitive. Orcs are Dwarves. They are thus technically Golems. I guess.

> start with a super simple formulaic plot structure
> add a bunch of filler and English wit.

>>19039616
and now for the final twist.
Dwarves, as many know, represent Jews. Everyone knew that already.
But Orcs represent them too.

Living spread out all over, in diaspora as it were, having their own language but preferring to use the language (or a bastardized version of it) of the people they live near (think Yiddish).

>but why would Tolkien say anything disparaging about Jews, he thought they were great!
Jews were immensely powerful even back then, just ask Hitler. Especially in England. One didn't just insult Jews without repercussion. And Tolkien would no doubt have mingled in that upper crust crowd, and no doubt heard all the rumors about the Jews.

>>19039616
>Th to S to Sh
the Shibboleth of Feanor, read that chapter in the Histories if you haven't already. Interesting observation though on your part. I don't normally get into the details of the language, so i didn't notice that.

However, there's an interesting story about Sauron, from the viewpoint of the Haradrim. Their name for him was Zigur (it meant Wizard in their language), and given that we know Sauron used to build pyramidal style temples to sacrifice to Melkor it's not too far a leap to suppose that Tolkien was trying to link Sauron with Ziggurats, with Babylonian ziggurats.

Which then ties into >>19039836, in the form of Babylonian Talmudic Jews.