/lit/ - Literature

Still learning Greek and Hebrew. I will do Latin once I finish these two. I postpone it because it seems too simple and not a real challenge.

>>19029612
I’m going to learn Greek after I’m proficient in Latin.
Greek is beautiful and foundational, however almost no books post Roman takeover of Greece were written in Greek, besides a few eastern liturgical texts.
Almost every book in Europe between ~200BC - 1700AD was written in Latin, with a heavy majority until even 1850-1900 or so.

>>19029414
thanks for the reminder, I've a printed copy of LLPSI to read in bed

>>19029414
I'm trying to read Petronius but there is a ton of slang words and hapax legomena which makes it difficult. The syntax is easy but the vocabulary very tough

>>19029414
Magnum est imperium Romanum!

Tomorrow I am going to start capitulum secundum.

>>19029786
There’s not much you can do with Hapax Legomena.
At least you’re not reading Homeric Greek. I’ve heard approximately 1/3 of the vocab is only used once and in those books and is in no other books we know of.

I finished xix today and I was chilling watching some Latin YouTube videos

>>19029414
>You’re not one of those numales that only reads living languages are you?
No. Sanskrit.

>>19029746
I also thought about that. However there are enough things I want to read in Greek to last me for my whole life: Plato, Homer, the new testament, the treek tragedies, Plotin's Enneads, Thucydides' history of the Peloponnesian war.

Gwynne's Latin?
Yes that is the best modern Latin book.

>>19029812
Rate my shitty translation:
capitulum undeviginti hodie legabam et relaxo dum latinam moventem picturam specto

>>19029814
That's enough material for like 2 years max, assuming you are really autistic about Plato/Plotinus and read for at least a few hours per day. Of course you must also read Plutarch, Herodotus, Aristophanes, and Aristotle which is another year or two.
I'd say there is quite a bit more worthwhile greek literature but it is also quite a bit harder than latin. Personally I started with latin because I also want to learn Italian and Spanish, which latin is very helpful for.

>>19029813
sanctum basatum

>>19029894
Did you just say Plato/Plotinus as if they’re the same person, but listed everyone else with commas to show you indeed knew the others were separate people?
Anon, Plato isn’t Plotinus

>>19029940
Not him but you might be legitimately autistic

>>19029942
kek

>>19029869
Correct but I would use different tenses (perfect for the first part, imperfect for the second part)

>>19030016
I see thanks I just learned imperfect this chapter and haven't got to perfect tense yet

>>19030040
>>19030016
How many times do you guys read chapters?
I usually read 5 chapters, do the work, read 10 more chapters without the work, go back to the first chapter I didn’t do the work on and do the next 5 chapters of work and read 10 chapters more.
So in short
Read and do 1-5
Only read 6-15
Read and do 6-10
Only read 11-20
Read and do 11-15….
So I end up reading every chapter besides1-10 at least 3x to really ingrane everything.

>>19030096
I do it one by one while also reading the associated material in Colloquia Personarum and Feballae Latinae (also Latine Disco, Student's Manual for grammar) and do the exercises. I don't really reread but I do read very slowly and while reading some sentences I try to rewrite them if they look interesting. I also do Anki flashcards daily so I don't really have any issues with the vocab, and I read the stuff on r/latin and on their Discord servers even if I don't participate. I also watch YouTube videos like this kind of stuff https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLHnbUCTWGHHCe_FCh8f4xhD3UtBHD2Hlj so I guess I really took the "comprehensible input" pill. Oh I also read the Vulgate in parallel.

>>19029414
I'm memorizing delcensions. I almost finished the third one

>>19029940
Please tell me you are trolling

>>19030244
Why would I be?
He thinks Plotinus and Plato are the same person.

>>19030494
https://youtube.com/watch?v=kav7tifmyTg

>>19030140
Well if you're going down that path you should know you can stop after the first 3 because the last 2 are quite rare. Do llpsi

>>19029813
What books?

>>19029746
> almost no books post Roman takeover of Greece were written in Greek, besides a few eastern liturgical texts
> Plotinus
> Lucian of Samosata
> Plutarch
> Nonnus of Panopoli
> Marcus Aurelius
> Diodorus Siculos
> Polybius
> Epictetus
> Procopius of Cesarea

>>19029746
Ahem,
>http://patristica.net/graeca/
>a few eastern liturgical texts
Oh and the Bible (yes even the old testament, don't @ me on this, although the Vulgate has as much authority on it, better than Masoretic at least, but ultimately it's secondary to the New). You know, some non foundational book.
Not counting all the profane books of imperial times, most of ancient mathematics, byzantine historians, in fact most of the ancient too like Polybus or Diodoros or Plutarch, etc.
In the end Latin > Greek but you can't just spout bullshit like that.

>>19029869
Hodie capitulum undevicessimum legi, iamiamque otium moderatum atque honestum consumo in pellicula latina spectanda.

>>19029802
>I’ve heard approximately 1/3 of the vocab
It's just poetic synonyms isn't it? Makes sense.

>>19030786
No, memorizing the basic patterns of all declensions is easy and can be done early. The last two are easy because they are just blends of the same patterns of the first 3.

>>19029894
It may be two years if

- I read ancient Greek at the same speed I read English. Which, based on my previous experience with reading in new languages, won't be the case for several years.

- These books were the only stuff I have to read

- I considered these books light reading rather than treasures to mine for all their worth by going slowly and deliberately

Besides, at this point I just judged that they are enough / important enough to justify learning the language. I may well discover more interesting stuff as I immerse myself in that space.

>>19032865
By the way, I'm not going to stay with Greek until I reach complete fluency. As soon as I'm finished with my grammar book and a couple of graded readers I'll jump to Latin, while adding some easy Greek book in my reading rotation.

>>19032213
Based

My plan is over 6 months to use Lingua Latina 1 hour daily since I have the time. How much Latin should I be able to read? I want to translate a certain text and publish it since I find the current options to be poor quality or good quality but too expensive.

>>19029414
Dead thread so who wants to translate OP's post? My A2 attempt
>You guys have read your chapter of Latin today right?
nonne tua latinorum capitula hodie legerunt?
>You’re not one of those numales that only reads living languages are you?
esne unus de neoviris quid modo vivam linguam legere potest?

>>19029414 (OP)
Dead thread so who wants to translate OP's post? My A2 attempt
>You guys have read your chapter of Latin today right?
nonne tua latinorum capitula hodie legerunt?
>You’re not one of those numales that only reads living languages are you?
esne unus de neoviris quis modo vivam linguam legere potest?

>>19029414
Dead thread so who wants to translate OP's post? My A2 attempt:
>You guys have read your chapter of Latin today right?
Nonne tua latinorum capitula hodie legerunt?
>You’re not one of those numales that only reads living languages are you?
Esne unus de neoviris quis modo vivam linguam legere potest?

>>19033403
>capitula
ngmi

>>19033409
Accusative plural. I know the question was "chapter" not "chapters" but it's addressing more people ("guys") so shouldn't it be "chapters" and thus "capitula"?

Just read the first chapter of Familia Romana yesterday, I love this book already.

Can anyone vouch for the Dowling method here?

After reading his page, I was sent into a panic attack because the path of doom he describes is exactly where my Latin class is heading —slowly working through Wheelock, jumping from concept to concept, only half understanding them, and reading small sentences about how Romans hated money.

https://wcdrutgers.net/Latin.htm

>>19033897
I tried doing the dowling method, but said fuck it and went through LLPSI, wish I did it sooner.
I think memorizing the tables works as you go along with the book, learning them all at once is just too much.

>>19029414
has anyone here done a degree in Classics?

I fell in love with The Iliad a few years ago, and since reading a fair amount of other ancient literature in translation I've had it in my mind to finally go to University and do a Classics degree. However, before that I've had to start a pre-University course as I've been out of education for a long time and didn't leave school with the best qualifications I could have achieved due to being incredibly unmotivated when I was in my final year.

I'm close to having to submit my University applications, and I'm having some doubt as to whether I should actually go for Classics. Everyone I speak to has a perception that Classics is something that only the children of wealthy parents do as a bit of a status symbol rather than having any kind of real interest in the content, and that something like a degree in History, or specifically Ancient History, would be a better use of my time.

My interest really is in the combination of history, language and literature, so I'm curious if there's anyone else who has had a similar dilemma.

>>19034196
>Everyone I speak to has a perception that Classics is something that only the children of wealthy parents do as a bit of a status symbol rather than having any kind of real interest in the content, and that something like a degree in History, or specifically Ancient History, would be a better use of my time.
Who cares? You'll probably be able to into the same Masters programs with either of those degrees (if that's the route you go). Just take classics if you like the languages and literature more than history. Even if you do decide to take ancient history, nothing is stopping you from taking Latin or Greek, too; hell, it might even have a language requirement.

quaeso, quaeso non mones rursus de mea desertio libri latinae qui in tua pictura est. gratias.

>>19030096
fortasse mihi neccese est agere aliquem ut ille. ignosce me si quem dico ut lingua barbari est.

>>19034196
I despise classics because of how pozzed it is. If you don't mind writing and reading communist and feminist interpretations of the Iliad, go for it. I think it's a terrible idea and the job prospects are obviously rubbish.

>>19034424
Cur eum non resumis piger homo?

>>19034196
the only /lit/ degree is math
enjoy your 50% tranny class and writing papers about colonialism if you study humanities

>>19034566
futuo tuam matrem, ille est causa

>>19034580
Minime, puerarius.

>>19034580
Si ille verum est, quid adhuc virgo tu est?

Primum Titii Livii ab urbe condita primi libri capitulum hodie cum legerim, in animo voluptateque habeo tandem huius perlegundi operae incipere conatum. Utinam spero scribendi rationem Cornelii Taciti Sallustiique Crispi perpessus ne vincar opere tam magno.

>>19033433
Not him but plural acc of caput is capita. Also the number of people you address doesn’t effect the number of the noun.

>>19033897
Wheelock does what it's supposed to do. It's not supposed to make you speak Latin. It's a grammar primer. . If you want to reach fluency, then you need to combine grammar with input(reading/listening). Pair it with a reading course like LLPSI and you'll be fine. If you don't like Wheelock's for grammar, then try Latin an Intensive Course instead

The problem is not Wheelock, it's that people are expecting a grammar book that teaches you like 500 words to make them fluent in a dead language. Which is quite frankly fucking retarded and YOUR problem, not the author's. Stop misusing grammar books and then whining that it doesn't work like Rosetta Stone or some shit.

>>19034981
tua ranae parvulae pictura mihi placet.

>>19035021
But we're talking about capitulum not caput

>>19035057
Tu es nimis iratus propter parva causa

>>19035281
I'm not angry, I'm baffled that someone would complain that a boat doesn't fly or that water isn't dry.

Why would you complain that an old grammar book which does not profess fluency and does not attempt to teach core vocabulary would make you speak a language fluency and then get mad and bash the dead author's name and legacy because of your own ignorance?

I use both Wheelock and LLPSI. I'm fine with people not liking his book, but acting like it's at fault for not doing something that it never attempted or claimed to do. When he wrote that book, many people assumed you would acquire language via dictionary, which is not a good method we agree. The solution is to supplement it with a book that DOES teach vocabulary. OR just don't use it at all and move on with your fucking life.

>>19029813
based that's what i'm doing

>sed mulier cupido quod dicit amanti,. in uento et rapida scribere oportet aqua
thottery is as old as time itself

how should I pace myself with LLPSI?
chapter a day?
as many as I can do in a day?
one chapter a day but read through it a handful of times?

>>19035716
It's recommended that you do a chapter every 3 days. I have a hard time thinking you will retain very much vocab or even fully understand what you are reading if you read faster than a new chapter every 2 days.

So I would say 3, or 2 if you want to be a speed demon, but 1 per day is just rushing for the sake of speed as opposed to trying to comprehend what you are reading. When you learn something new, you need time away from it to come back and recall from your memory. Learning 2000 words in a month is unrealistic and doesn't give you space to forget and recall, which strengthens comprehension and long term retention of concepts and words.

If 3 days sounds like a lot, keep in mind there are plenty of exercises, supplements, video lectures, audio readings, and more things to fill that time. Blazing through it quickly just because you can is not going to make your learn faster, speed is not the point.

>>19035766
thank you! I will follow your advice
I'm not trying to rush, just really don't know how I should be approaching it yet.
I've so far only read the first chapter, and now I intend to read it again and take down more notes, plus read it a third time with audio.

>>19035859
You are welcome, yeah the first chapters so easy, but once you are at 5, 6 ,7, 8 you will naturally slow down and be using all the time you can get to reread as things become more idiomatic and the syntax looks less and less like English.

I go one chapter per week youngsters but yeah first ones are very easy

>>19034196
Ignore the retards who have never set foot on a campus. I fell for the stem meme and I regret almost everyday not going for something like classics or philosophy. If you work hard enough and make some contacts you can almost certainly secure a good position in academia, and that is quite literally the best possible job in the world for someone with interests like ours.

>>19035608
I've reached the point where I'm starting to get confortable reading prose, even on somewhat technical subjects, but Latin poetry in insufferable. Yes, I'm filtered. Pack nominal groups together.

>>19036171
Try reading some Horace if you want real word order pain.

>>19035716
>>19035716
add one to your fire every 20 minutes

>>19036063
>retarded stemfag thinks he's special for going to university in 2021
>retarded stemfag gives humanities advice despite being both retarded and a stemfag
>retarded stemfag makes retarded post
You love to see it

Ita fessus sum, ut studere non possim.

>>19034196
Would you trust a professor of german literature who can't hold a conversation in german?
I'm a senior double majoring in Classics and Math.
It depends a lot on what university you go to. Most departments are extremely pozzed. Classics is being killed by Classicists.
You won't actually learn Latin and Greek in school, but you'll become a good translator who can translate 40 lines in an hour (provided you have a grammar reference and dictionary at hand).
For me, the most valuable part about being a Classics program is actually just having access to the library and classics journals, from which most of the proper learning is done, and then you can ask professors relevant questions.
If you actually want to get proficient in the languages, rather than be a glorified translator like 99% of classics professors are, you'll have to learn on your own time, but of course this is easier when you are taking introduction to latin and greek classes at universities because it just means you have to do a little extra work and your classes will keep you motivated. Read LLPSI and the Italian Athenaze series and find groups of Latin speakers near you.
It truly is an amazing experience being able to read virgil or Plato fluently cover to cover (which, by the way, just about 0 Classics professors have done).

A Classics program does help learn the classics, but the state of classics today is such that the best education is just from reading shit yourself. For example, I took a intro to Greek myth my sophomore year and learned nothing new, but reading the Iliad, the tragedies, and the metamorphoses, and paying close attention to the names, the people, and the stories mentioned taught me so much more.

Also, the Classics doesn't offer any path for jobs. Even, if you "play it safe" and stick to academia, you'll most likely be a perpetual adjunct for 20 years after your phd. The situation is a little better for archaeologists but not much.
If you do want to go into academia, make sure you start learning Latin and Ancient Greek starting your first semester of your freshman year, because proficiency (which to classicists, as mentioned earlier, is being a good translator) is key to getting into good programs. You'll also need reading proficiency in German or French as well if you want a truly good program.

>>19037143
Wtf do you need to be in a classics program to access classics journals? Pretty sure my student account allowed me to access journals across all fields. Anyway sci hub exists so that's a stupid reason to do classics.

>>19036254
>article, substantive and adjective are in three different verses
>it's one of those unusual gender for this declensions so terminations don't even match
I tried so hard and got so far.