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/lit/ - Literature

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19019331 No.19019331 [Reply] [Original]

Holy cow, a leftist I like. In one essay, this dude made excellent points about the fatal flaws of the state, the negative aspects of patriotism, the immorality of state actors, etc. Just look at these quotes:

>The modern State, as we have said, has freed itself from the yoke of the Church and consequently has shaken off the yoke of universal or cosmopolitan morality of the Christian religion, but it has not yet become permeated with the humanitarian idea or ethics - which it cannot do without destroying itself, for in its detached existence and isolated concentration the State is much too narrow to embrace, to contain the interests and consequently the morality of, humanity as a whole.
>The existence of a single limited State necessarily presupposed the existence, and if necessary provokes the formation of several States, it being quite natural that the individuals who find themselves outside of this State and who are menaced by it in their existence and liberty, should in turn league themselves against it. Here we have humanity broken up into an indefinite number of States which are foreign, hostile, and menacing toward one another.
>Every State, whether it is of a federative or a non-federative character, must seek, under the penalty of utter ruin, to become the most powerful of States. It has to devour others in order not to be devoured in turn, to conquer in order not to be conquered, to enslave in order not to be enslaved - for two similar and at the same time alien powers, cannot co-exist without destroying each other.
>he state then is the most flagrant negation, the most cynical and complete negation of humanity. It rends apart the universal solidarity of all men upon earth, and it unites some of them only in order to destroy, conquer, and enslave all the rest.

Imagine a line, right? On one end you have China and the USSR, and then say you have Sweden, then America, then Saudi Arabia, etc, until you reach Nazi Germany on the other end. That's the traditional "left-to-right" line. And each country on that line is flawed, each country has inflicted and inflicts horrific misery on people. Bakunin seems like he's offering us an escape from the line entirely. I have skimmed some of the rest of his writings, and I plan on reading them all. This is a hidden gem of a philosophy, it's a really nice breath of fresh air.

>> No.19019380

>>19019331
>t. lolbert

>> No.19019389
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19019389

>>19019380
cringe

>> No.19019475

>>19019331
That’s anarchism anon. The alternative to their statism scares the bootlickers

>> No.19019763

>>19019331
You're a retarded pseud lmao. You think basic anarkiddie philosophy is groundbreaking and you share it with us as if we are not familiar with this crap

>> No.19019772

>>19019331
>the negative aspects of patriotism,
None whatsoever? Fuck off anti-human.

>> No.19019912

>>19019772
>anti-human.
The state isn’t a human, asslicker

>> No.19019944

>>19019331
I like the sound of his name, but I'm not impressed by what you posted.

>> No.19020104

>>19019912
>The state isn’t a human, asslicker
What human characteristic does it lack? It is born, lives and dies, it produces and destroys. States are the closest humans will ever get to creating an artificial bring. It's the perfectly imperfect structure. Kneel before the Leviathan, anarcofaggot.

>> No.19020198

>>19020104
It’s a machine. It turns humans to zombie mush-heads like you.
An artificial being? Why when we know how to make actual beings? See how degenerate you sound?

>> No.19020234

>>19019331
>The modern State, as we have said, has freed itself from the yoke of the Church and consequently has shaken off the yoke of universal or cosmopolitan morality of the Christian religion, but it has not yet become permeated with the humanitarian idea or ethics
Bullshit our constitutions are full of christian ideas. Imagine liking such a long sentence full of shit and posting it here on lit.

>> No.19020253
File: 36 KB, 1023x576, B29C8DEA-A3D7-47BF-879B-182BDC3E27BE.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
19020253

>>19020234

>> No.19020258

>>19020104
>It is born, lives and dies, it produces and destroys
So do dogs you retard.

>> No.19020263
File: 3.01 MB, 2225x961, 193875ED-36BB-47D3-A4C1-17E7222D7984.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
19020263

>>19019331
You haven’t encountered his best idea yet.

>> No.19020291

>>19020198
>It’s a machine. It turns humans to zombie mush-heads like you.
Indeed, the perfect machine, capable of social pressure just like any other human.
>An artificial being? Why when we know how to make actual beings? See how degenerate you sound?
No idea what you meant by this. States are a result of the Promethean nature of man.
>>19020258
>So do dogs you retard.
What do dogs produce apart from shit? One of the characteristics of man is power, ie the ability to produce in order to increase production. States are capable of that, dogs are not.

>> No.19020304

>>19020263
Holy based. Much better than OP's cringe crap.

>> No.19021567

>>19020291
>Promethean
Vampiric

There’s little creativity in empires, monarchies, clerics, economists, and all the other banal greed driven vampires.

>> No.19021603
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19021603

>>19019331
Wagner's description of him:

>It was long before this date that I first made the acquaintance of this most remarkable man. For years I had come across his name in the newspapers, and always under extraordinary circumstances. He turned up in Paris at a Polish gathering, but although he was a Russian, he declared that it mattered little whether a man were a Russian or a Pole, so long as he wanted to be a free man, and that this was all that mattered. I heard afterwards, through George Herwegh, that he had renounced all his sources of income as a member of an influential Russian family, and that one day, when his entire fortune consisted of two francs, he had given them away to a beggar on the boulevard, because it was irksome to him to be bound by this possession to take any thought for the morrow. [...] When I met him, therefore, under the humble shelter of Rockel's roof, I was immediately struck by his singular and altogether imposing personality. He was in the full bloom of manhood, anywhere between thirty and forty years of age. Everything about him was colossal, and he was full of a primitive exuberance and strength. I never gathered that he set much store by my acquaintance. Indeed, he did not seem to care for merely intellectual men; what he demanded was men of reckless energy. As I afterwards perceived, theory in this case had more weight with him than purely personal sentiment; and he talked much and expatiated freely on the matter. His general mode of discussion was the Socratic method, and he seemed quite at his ease when, stretched on his host's hard sofa, he could argue discursively with a crowd of all sorts of men on the problems of revolution. On these occasions he invariably got the best of the argument. It was impossible to triumph against his opinions, stated as they were with the utmost conviction, and overstepping in every direction even the extremest bounds of radicalism. So communicative was he, that on the very first evening of our meeting he gave me full details about the various stages of his development, he was a Russian officer of high birth, but smarting under the yoke of the narrowest martial tyranny, he had been led by a study of Rousseau's writings to escape to Germany under pretence of taking furlough. In Berlin he had flung himself into the study of philosophy with all the zest of a barbarian newly awakened to civilisation. Hegel's philosophy was the one which was the rage at that moment, and he soon became such an expert in it, that he had been able to hurl that master's most famous disciples from the saddle of their own philosophy, in a thesis couched in terms of the strictest Hegelian dialectic.

>> No.19022346
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19022346

Awesome guy. Candidate for Übermensch

>> No.19022785

>>19019772
There are two flavors of patriotism:
1. I appreciate my culture and people, and I would like both to prosper
2. My culture and people are so good that we have the right to spread ourselves and force others to join in
1 is fine, 2 is bad

>> No.19022806

>>19022785
>1. I appreciate my culture and people, and I would like both to prosper
Good.
>2. My culture and people are so good that we have the right to spread ourselves and force others to join in
Also good. The Leviathan must be bigger.

>> No.19022841
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19022841

>>19022806
>Also good. The Leviathan must be bigger.

>> No.19022851

>>19022841
I advocate for this but unironically.

>> No.19022867

>>19022851
>I advocate for this but unironically.
"How do you think that we live in Brazil?
Hanging with the monkeys of beaches of Rio?
How do you think that we go to our schools?
Climbing our lions on dirt avenues?"

>> No.19022941

>>19019944
>I like the sound of his name

How do you pronounce it? Is it bah-COO-nin ?

>> No.19022974

>>19019331
>very State, whether it is of a federative or a non-federative character, must seek, under the penalty of utter ruin, to become the most powerful of States. It has to devour others in order not to be devoured in turn, to conquer in order not to be conquered, to enslave in order not to be enslaved - for two similar and at the same time alien powers, cannot co-exist without destroying each other.

Retroactively refuted. Modern states aren't an independent entity. They do not seek to become strong or one-up each other. They are all controlled by a superior organization of men for the sole purpose of exploiting every one else. States are irrelevant.

>> No.19023016

>>19022974
True. His mistake was to think that states are somehow relevant actors in a historical sense, when they are just pawns. Bankers and capitalists control everything on Earth. Marx, on the contrary, understood this very well.