/lit/ - Literature

>>19000420
>What percentage of people would you say actually continued to do their own reading on these subjects to make up their own minds instead of just regurgitating what the YouTubers said?
/lit/ doesn't even read. You think youtube's audience will?

>>19000420
>Is it a good or bad thing to give millions of people a free and accessible introduction to topics like philosophy and political theory?
It is a good thing. It becomes bad when people take introductory opinion guys opinions to ground their own belief. Look at /lit/, no one reads and everybody copy / paste the same opinion pool ad-nauseam.

>What percentage of people would you say actually continued to do their own reading on these subjects to make up their own minds instead of just regurgitating what the YouTubers said?
Idk, but I don't believe its a lot.

>>19000420
THIS IS THE LITERATURE BOARD

>>19000439
Also, that fat bearded american guy would be perma-gulagged in any marxian-influenced government.

>>19000420
Not gonna lie I'd fuck Contrapoints. I'd be violently sick afterwards but I'd still wreck it's anus

Why are you posting this on /lit/?

The only way narcissist grifter e-celebs can serve as an introduction or gateway to serious reading is if you're 13 going on 14 and immediately stop watching them after that. Anyone watching these midwits is a midwit, not gratifying any intellectual curiosity just killing time with something passive and easy. Anyone with a drop of genuine intellectual curiosity would notice right away that these losers have zero depth, they have nothing to offer, they don't even comment on the news or "current events" in interesting ways, it is a self-enclosed bubble of eceleb personality worship with nothing else going for it.

Real people interested in real things go off and research them. Losers destined to passively watch tarted-up narcissist theater kids for their whole lives and never do anything watch tarted-up narcissist theater kids.

>>19000444
YES AND I'M ASKING WHETHER GIVING PEOPLE A SURFACE-LEVEL INTRO TO SUBJECTS LIKE LIT AND PHIL IS A BAD THING IF NONE OF THOSE PEOPLE ACTUALLY DO THEIR OWN WORK TO DEVELOP AN UNDERSTANDING OF THE SUBJECTS.

>is elitism justifiable if the world turns out people i don lyk?

THIS BOARD IS FOR LITERATURE

>>19000435
>>19000439
lit is still better than any other book forum I've been on, certainly better than r*ddit.
>Is there a way to do this without creating obnoxious faggot audiences like those of pic-related?
Probably by forgoing all of the pointless aesthetics and actually talking about the subjects in some depth. That should scare off most people.

>>19000484
>is elitism justifiable
yes

>entire generation
The world beyond the internet exists, anon.

>>19000420
who the fuck are these people

>>19000659
Not my image and yeah everyone I know irl is totally oblivious to this stuff and probably happier for it.

>>19000659
In my experience, this is not true at all.
The "world" outside of the internet seems to be a cultureless corporate hellscape where everyone just passes the time until they can get back into the real world, i.e. the internet.

>>19000420
>tfw I don't recognise 5/6 of those things
>tfw feels good
So I take it these are philosophytubers, right? I really don't think it is worth it trying to analyse such intellectual slop for the masses, it is to be ignored. They don't really deprive people of better material, and the only people who don't go beyond them weren't likely to become scholars anyway.

>>19000455
>it's anus
its*

>>19000449
He's not even an actual Marxist. That's the frustrating thing about that pedo.

>>19000725
My point is I could approach a decent amount of people on the street and ask if they've heard of Vaush, Contra, or even right wing equivalents who you'd think were very well known like Ben Shapiro or Sargon and they'd say they had no clue who they were. I didn't really believe this until I tested it myself. Upon realising this I stopped attaching so much weight to e-drama.

>>19000444
stfu stupid whore, go wash your smelly snatch and make me a sammich

>>19000726
>I take it these are philosophytubers, right?
Worse, most of them are "breadtubers," i.e. leftist propagandists that have found fertile breeding ground on censored YouTube. I'd like to shrug them off too. But they're shaping an entire generation of people, simply because alternative perspectives are now outright banned on the most popular websites. We're in for one hell of a century.

>>19000725
>The "world" outside of the internet seems to be a cultureless corporate hellscape where everyone just passes the time until they can get back into the real world, i.e. the internet.
you must be 18+

>>19000739
Depends on their age and what sort of circles they move in.
for anyone older than 25 this is probably true but the average zoomer (myself included) can probably name at least one of these people.

>>19000449
He´s literally petty bourgeoisie larper. His business is just selling feel good socialist messages to his audience of teens. It´s actually very nasty.

>>19000773
>the average zoomer (myself included) can probably name at least one of these people.
Nah, I'm an older zoomer also and most of the people I know are still oblivious to the culture war, even the IRL one. Then again I'm a yuro, maybe the situation isn't as terminal over here yet. People don't even know what the term SJW means. It's a good thing. But it's been getting worse in the last little while; I'll enjoy it while I can.

>>19000792
I can tell you are a British Iseloid, kinda spooky that people don´t get it considering that airstrip one is just the sister city of Karachi nowadays.

>>19000420
Literally who are these people, the only one I recognize is the communist transwoman

>>19000840
I'm a German, in fact.

>>19000849
I could tell you, but I'd rather not. Always better not to advertise leftist ideologues.

>>19000849
you'll be happier not knowing.

>>19000420
Vaush is uniroinically evil!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aCjyqziVSMA

>>19000882
>Sargon and Dankula in the comments
These people are just as retarded as the breadtube faggots. All they have done is run a free publicity campaign for leftist ideas. Fuck these faggots and anyone who associates with them.

>>19000849
>communist transwoman
She's a socdem tho

>>19000882
> he is called doomerpolitics and hearted a Sargon comment.
cringe.
Also, I don't want to sit through an hour of vaush, what are some good timestamps.

>>19000923
There's another actual communist transwoman. Let's not talk about that.

>>19000931
Commie tranny is redundant. All commies become trannies and all trannies become commies.

>>19000937

>>19000923
Anon, in my world left of Biden = communist. Socialists are a subset of communists who don’t want to genocide people or suppress religious minorities.

>>19000923
literally, every terrible anti sjw channel I watched when I was 15 is in the comments.
Id still fuck the Asian chick though.

>>19000961
>t. amerimutt

>>19000961
Another person who needs to get off the internet. Find some actual lefties instead of twitter larpers.

>>19000849
Vaush, Hbomberguy, contrapoints, shoeonhead, shaun, serfstv

But as the other anons said: you'd be better off not watching most of them

>>19001003
*all

My favorite zoomer post is the
>Yeah [completely retarded zoomer shit] is bad, I only watch the upper crust 20% of it :/....
post

"Uhh bro don't watch Vish or DarthVaderIsCool27... That's trash. Only watch MinecraftGreg and BeybladeMike like me."

>>19001022
This is anyone who still watches these channels.

>>19001016
I like shaun because he makes me feel smart

>>19001243
Why?

>>19000444
Bitch you’re one of the worthless fucks shitting up this board with your pathetic political ramblings
Follow your own advice and stick to talk about books you fat hag

>>19001275
Because he points out dumb arguments and makes me feel smart for not falling for those arguments

>>19000444
dumb fucking cunt, you are lucky we cant hang your kind from a tree after disemboweling you anymore you disgusting scum.

>>19001296
But he literally wants you to support your own destruction?

>>19001329
How so? I don't really watch much YouTube apart from hoi4 sht

>>19001339
By supporting progressive politics in any capacity whatsoever?

>>19001380
Don't really care desu, kinda want to see the British state fall apart

>>19001419
Are you a straight White male? If yes, then you won't be around to see anything anymore at that point.

>>19001419
The Anglo-Jewish nexus in London is probably going to absorb two centuries of built up bad karma sometime this century. I don't know what's going to happen to America as a whole but Britain made so many deals with so many devils and infused itself with so much evil that I expect 200 years from now Celtic peoples will still be reclaiming and repopulating the Anglo-Saxon lands.

>“You let in the Jew and the Jew rotted your empire, and you yourself outjewed the Jew."
Ezra Pound

>>19000420
>Is it a good or bad thing to give millions of people a free and accessible introduction to topics like philosophy and political theory?
>Is there a way to do this without creating obnoxious faggot audiences like those of pic-related?
Contra and Shaun are okay. All the others are actually retarded, and actually make the world worse.

>What percentage of people would you say actually continued to do their own reading on these subjects to make up their own minds instead of just regurgitating what the YouTubers said?
In your picture? None. They are propagandists and leave little room for learning beyond what they tell you. School of life and crash course are unironically better than these intellectual trash cans.

>>19001243
He is a retard who doesn't think race exists and doesn't understand genetics. I feel superior to him and you because I watched the AlternativeHypothesis video showing why he is a retard.

>>19001484
>He thinks race doesn't exist
Hes completely right though, race is just a feeling not a reality.

>>19001496
Is that why he never responded to Alt-Hypes refutation?

>>19001430
I don't believe that

>>19001496
>Hes completely right though, race is just a feeling not a reality.
isnt that just a linguistic turn of phrase? there are obvious demonstrable phenotypical genentic subsets oh humanity with distinct traits. Whatever word you want to use is, again, a point of linguistics fuckery.

>>19001523
he has. is this an elaborate troll?

>>19000420
who?

>>19001532
You can believe whatever you'd like, anon. But you've forfeited your right to complain once you're no longer allowed into public parks.

>>19001496
>race is just a feeling not a reality
feels are reals though
>>19001549
where?

>>19001558
i forgot that it was unlisted
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X2DZCHP5xvw

I want to fuck Contra and I’m not afraid of admitting it anymore

>>19000444
I would love to slam your head through drywall

>>19001590
Why would anyone here care you're a fag? Just be ready for a lot of crying.

>>19000444
Get the fuck out of here, you're the least interesting tripfags of them all.

>>19001557
This sounds like fear mongering. I don't see any real drive to push SWM out of existence. Sure there might be a lot of twitter wierdos but those people don't have systemic power. The ones with the power are usually SWM.

>>19001243
Hes actually a retard with a ghostwriter

>>19001682
His ghost writer makes interesting videos then

The access is good; the cult of personality is bad because they're essentially seen as doing the thinking for you. Nevermind the narcissism.

>>19001682
Is this true?

>>19001588
Ten mins of cope.

Listening to breadtubers is an important and necessary step to growing out of your anti-sjw / alt right phase. From there you can go on three different paths:
1. Continuing to be a cringey podcast leftist and giving your money to grifters
2. Becoming some weird Bolshevist or red-brown type
3. Finally growing out of your politically chuunibyou phase and becoming a normal liberal

>>19001750
What ever happened to just stepping back from the internet so you're not mentally poisoned.

>>19001763
That’s the final phase of the third path.

>>19001750
But it just made me even more imbittered at most of their fallacious, smug, or partially reasoned stances rather than reaching to the ultimate conclusion to a line of thought.
It made me think of alt rights as retarded, and leftoids as actively malicious.

>>19001780
take the pragmatic liberal pill

>>19001721
Yeah, it's a woman (?) called Jen or something.

>>19001588
didn't alt hype say that the bell curve isn't his argument? also the bell curve isn't mostly about race and shit

>>19001800
nah, thats just tacit silent to obvious resentful antithesis.

I think ill just call myself a Hegelian so I can exist in an fluid state that cant be pinned as liberal, conservative, fascist commie, socialist, etc.

>>19001830
>I think ill just call myself a Hegelian so I can exist in an fluid state that cant be pinned as liberal, conservative, fascist commie, socialist, etc.
ok but pic related is the conclusion of hegelianism

>>19001830
Sounds like you’re basing your politics on what makes you cool and different from all the normies.
It’s called being a chuunibyou, it’s normal when you’re a teen but please try to move on from it for your own sake. Sweeping ideological solutions sound sexy but never work out, just find some political problems that matter to you and think about what policies would work the best. The most boring answers are generally the most effective.

physiognomy

>>19001612
he said when the dominant narrative in the west outside of rurals is pretty anti that.
Of course, most of the higher up are probably white (or chinese), but they don't really seem to care if the company they have shareholds in does one thing or another for pr. In fact, its probably good for engagement.

A quite unique situation, historically.

>>19001867
>Sweeping ideological solutions sound sexy but never work out,
yah, that was my point. That was a way to put it into one word.

>>19001875
>filename
He looks just like Hbomberguy wtf.

>>19001906
damn you're right

>>19001906
wait i am wrong no that is not shaun. shaun was just mentioned in the tweet and i am not literate

I've met one person in real life who watched these people. they were trans and had aids. I was in a communist party for about half a year as well

>>19001961
>I was in a communist party for about half a year as well
should I join one?

>>19000849
>communist

>>19000420
Kind of interesting watching the way big tech completely demonetised and censored all dissident right voices, and how they eagerly promoted these faggots instead.

>>19001968
You probably shouldn't. The Socialist party is a complete joke so I guarantee you that the Communist party is an entire stand-up routine.

>>19002011
I’m gonna do it when I go to uni. It will be fun sitting at the back listening to the larping.

>>19002011
usually socialist parties are social democratic parties. i am looking for direct action.

left wingers participating in parliment have been debunked by pic related

shaun is OK. the rest are trash. contra is arguably the worst because she's actually decently read but still somehow a succdem. fucking yanks

>>19000449
I'd be surprised if vaush isn't a glowie. he barely hides that he's being coached by people on TYT, who in turn are in porky's pocket

>>19000961
it's nice that you admit your burger brainrot at least

>>19001750
4) actually read the theory instead of watching youtubers butcher it

>>19000923
More like suckdem. Yeah she’d get it.

>>19000961
Brainrot.

>>19000923
*liberal

all you leftoids are liberals shills

>>19002307
is capitalism necessary to raise the productive forces of society to transition to socialism?

answer me that mr. marxist man

>>19002417
don't call us libs, lib

>>19002437
good question. the standard answer is that you use planning and a dictatorship of the proletariat to do this. capitalism has many inefficiencies that go away when you don't bother with commodity production. but to be able to do this you need to be able to do calculation in kind, and you need decent quality data for said calculations. but once you do, you can yeet the market. me and some other cyberneticians are looking at using tools from linear algebra and AI to do this

>>19002487
>we just use computers to calculate where to go with the economy
Great idea Robert McNamara.

>>19002487
Yes, a planned economy works out quite well...

>>19002487
>is that you use planning and a dictatorship of the proletariat to do this. capitalism has many inefficiencies that go away when you don't bother with commodity production. but to be able to do this you need to be able to do calculation in kind, and you need decent quality data for said calculations. but once you do, you can yeet the market. me and some other cyberneticians are looking at using tools from linear algebra and AI to do this
ty
you give off strong leninist vibes

>>19002307
>contra is arguably the worst because she's actually decently read but still somehow a succdem. fucking yanks
You mean the best? Imagine being a retarded commie when Marx and his utopian larp have been btfo for a century. Embrace the succ.

>>19002627
>Marx and his utopian larp

>spend entire life writing polemics against utopians
>illiterates accuse you of utopianism

>>19002560
yes, which is why every company on Earth is planned internally

>>19002565
haven't read much lenin actually. I'm quite critical of his organizational tactic. vanguardism and all that. but lenin's framework for the different "stages" of communism is a common thing among socialists. DotP -> socialism -> communism

>>19002627
>utopian
don't use words you don't know the meaning of anon

>>19000420
>Is pic related true?
I don't know who the others are, but Shaun's videos are great and I'm willing to bet he got many epic alt-right teenagers grow out of the brainwashing they suffered at the hands of /pol/, stormfront, red pill theories crap and whatnot, you know, what is ACTUALLY ruining them.

>>19002650
where do i get started with Marx? i hate economic writing. I was reading an introduction to him in this book called "free to lose", then I immediately put it down after the author claimed that he won't be arguing for socialism from a productivity standpoint but an "ethical" standpoint.

also there is Baudrillard's mirror of production which i am told is one of the best critiques of marxism, baudrillard being a maoist himself. both him and i have a fondness for nietzsche

>>19002649
>>19002650
>n-no guys, my version of socialism is actually possible... I swear!

>>19002702
not only is it possible, it's inevitable.

>>19000773
>but the average zoomer (myself included) can probably name at least one of these people.

lmao, no they cant

>>19002487
How would you get the data? People refuse to take the vaccine, so asking them and others to do a data checkup is going to result in a bunch of people refusing to go.

>>19002720
you're right. zoomers that watch those people represent the "indoor" kind of people.

>>19002692
>where do i get started with Marx?
I just jumped straight into Capital on a dare from my old boss. but these two summarize Marx' main ideas in about 30 pages each:
https://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1847/wage-labour/
https://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1865/value-price-profit/
Critique of the Gotha Programme is also quite short, about 20 pages, and brings up the notion of there being transitional periods:
https://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1875/gotha/
some people recommend the Manifesto, but I didn't find that very useful
if you decide to read Capital then joining a reading group is highly recommended

>>19002722
these kinds of data are already being collected. people's order history, production statistics etc.. it needs to be collected into a single database and processed. also things like preorders could be incorporated, and allowing people to run simulations if they have ideas for new production methods. lots of possibilities

>>19002763
thank you fren, will read. people who are actually acquainted with his work always seem quite intelligent

>>19002763
>these kinds of data are already being collected. people's order history, production statistics etc.. it needs to be collected into a single database and processed. also things like preorders could be incorporated, and allowing people to run simulations if they have ideas for new production methods. lots of possibilities
this sounds like it's going to have the exact same problem as austrian economics

>>19002714
no way man, you have a time frame? I've been waiting for the fall of capitalism forever

>>19002437
yeah

>>19002784
no problem anon

>>19002793
you mean as what the austrians try to point out, or literally the problems of austrian economics? because for the most part the austrian school is just hopelessly idealist, to the point that they reject the scientific method
the one decent point mises has is that there exists tentative knowledge in people's brains that is difficult to capture. but that's a critique that applies to capitalism as well. markets ain't magic, and neither are computers

>>19000659
the internet is unfortunately extremely influential now, especially if you live in a developed country

>>19002803
it has to get far worse. stop making your countries pass liberal policies to "make capitalism humane" first.
>>19002822
according to? i read engels warned against implementing socialism in economically backward nations.
and from my understanding of fascism it was this reason their economic policies were in support of capital, a la lenin's NEP

>>19000439
>It is a good thing. It becomes bad when people take introductory opinion guys opinions to ground their own belief
if the innevitable outcome is a bad thing, can you really call it a good thing in the first place

>>19002825
i mean literally the problems of austrian economics.
only works in computer, "simulation" untenable irl

I never really got the point of these youtubers. I think it might be an asthetic thing but none of them really appeal to me at all I don’t know why.

Could someone explain to me the mass appeal of these YouTubers. Where does their market come from

>>19002839
>your liberal ideology will fail unless you keep enacting liberal policies

>>19002763
Managerial cyberneticists like you can get fucked. Read Kevin Carson's Homebrew Industrial Revolution, the truth is that the centralized fordist-sloanist managerial system that companies use is propped up by state power and slanted regulation and is far from the most efficient. Small scale markets can and have supported people better and data collection schemes like the ones as Amazon are both horribly inefficient and hugely invasive. I don't want to live in a "rationally" managed society, my society reduced to the whims of some detached computer or central planner bureaucrat who knows whats best for me better than me, my neighbors and my family. I will not be integrated into your central plan. It is simply not compatible with the hugely varied needs, wants and cultures of people and the problem of coordination and knowledge completely BTFOs you guys everytime you try do this shit. It doesn't work and people don't like it.

Enlightenment social engineering has proven to be genocidal and disastrous over and over again. Seeing like a State NEVER EVER works even if you do it with Compooters, which are no real help (read What Computers Can't Do by Dreyfus). Give up, retard.

>>19002844
people obey bulk statistics anon. firms like amazon already anticipate demand. we can use techniques like POMDP and function approximation to deal with these things. even just linear algebra works surprisingly well and is used all the time in input-output analysis

>>19000444
great get king

>>19002896
They don't anticipate demand, they manufacture it and only with the help of a massive government sponsored propaganda machine and data collection scheme forcing people into legible, predictable rows. Without insane amounts of repression built into the legal and regulatory system, none of this would be possible.

>>19002889
>socialism
>liberal
>>19002896
idk dood i doubt it. I'd plan some portion of the economy, but not all of it.
is market socialism, all workers owning the stock in a company not socialism?

>>19002878
Its mostly background noise for playing video games because of how there is nothing visually going on in the videos. There is also a small cult of personality of these people because of how their scripted videos and/or bad faith arguments make them seem like absolute geniuses.

>>19002924
also this
the kind of information needed for this is ingsoc tier.
most people would not agree with this

you'd have to do it through force.

>>19002937
You would at least need current day Capitalist levels of legibility generation and control to make such a scheme even theoretically possible.

>>19002894
petty bourgeois cope. you can't build socialism with small scale market "socialism" anon. it will result in mediocre production or just capitalism reasserting itself. we seek deliverance from labour, and people like you who pine for a return to small-scale manufacture will never be able to deliver it

>>19002929
>is market socialism, all workers owning the stock in a company not socialism?
irrelevant. it's not stable. read Yakovenko

>>19002937
And with what force? The main opponents of these ideas will be the working class who are suspicious of the government. These people will also be in charge of the government(proletariat dictatorship) so its more likely that the government would refuse to enact these policies anyway.

>>19002929
>lecturing others on liberal economics when they don't even know what socialism is

>>19002839
both marx and engels talked about how socialism is only possible after capitalism and that the idea of socialism itself is only conceivable because of the destruction of the old medieval system is not so much about society needing a specific amount of productive forces so we can then flip the communism switch or whatever, specially since the socialist nations still have to develop the economy to the point where work can be abolished
> from my understanding of fascism it was this reason their economic policies were in support of capital
nah thats cos fascists are classcucks that try to trick the workers with fairy tales

>>19002955
I don't want to build socialism at all you dumbfuck. Its a sick managerial dream of the Enlightenment. All you want to do is continue the industrial rape of the earth, the management of people like cattle, the reduction of everything to standing reserve but in a more efficient and "rational" manner. You want to build a better mousetrap, not overthrow modernity. You openly want to reduce people to statistical herds and micromanage their lives and you plan and use the very strategies of your enemy (data collection, behavioral prediction, legibility enforcement) to do it. You have no principles, you're not a Socialist or a rebel, you just think you can run the large scale industrial destruction of the Earth and the dignity of the human race better than the guys who currently do it. Fuck you.

>>19002985
>nah thats cos fascists are classcucks that try to trick the workers with fairy tales
did you parce them from reading there work?
italy was a largely agrarian country then

musso was more concerned with protecting small scale italian businesses

>>19003006
parse this from reading their work
sorry typing with one hand

>>19000444
> t. Some fag who unironically watches Jimmy Door
Did this thread hit a raw nerve?

>>19002999
ah so you're a primmie. even worse. I don't expect you to be able to fathom that the productive forces can be redirected towards things like GHG sequestration. neck yourself, please

>>19000420
>What percentage of people would you say actually continued to do their own reading on these subjects to make up their own minds instead of just regurgitating what the YouTubers said?
less than 10% probably. just look at pewdiepie's book subreddit – it's a fucking ghost town. young people are driven predominantly by whatever is fotm (thought it's probably closer to fotw at this point).

>>19003044
I'm not a primitivist you dumbfuck. I am just a person who wants to live in a word not ruled by technique and cybernetics in which everything is reduced to data and exploitable manipulatable resources, aka a sane person who doesn't have the arrogance to think he has the right control, manage and micromanage what he cannot even understand.

>>19003044
Why do all trannies type the same.

>>19003075
I'm not hearing any solutions from you, only whine. we have about 400 Gton of CO2 to sequester. either come up with useful ideas or stfu

>>19003099
Let it fall.

>>19003109
let around 100,000,000 to 1,000,000,000 people die you mean? I'm going to go with "no"

>>19003135
what is the population of africa again?

i would be marxist if marxists were racist.

>>19003135
>muh climate boogaloo

>>19000916
that's very true for Sargon, but Dankula is just a cool guy that made the unfortunate mistake of associating with politispergs. he's genuinely pretty funny.

>>19003145
marxist smight not be racist, but they can meet you halfway with the jews

>>19003165
no they don't lol. marx wasn't anti semitic his whole "on the jewish question" was both critical and tongue and cheek.

>>19003135
>100 mil - 1 Billion
>that range
Kek you fags have no idea what is going to happen

>>19003170
>tongue and cheek
tongue in cheek*

>>19003145
I have some news for you and Ferdinand Lassalle.

>>19003170
>>19003145
https://www.philosophersmag.com/opinion/30-karl-marx-s-radical-antisemitism

In fact, so commonly held is the view that Marx was an anti-Semite that in 1964, Shlomo Avineri, a leading commentator on Marx, stated (“Marx and Jewish Emancipation,” Journal of the History of Ideas, 1964) “That Karl Marx was an inveterate antisemite is today considered a commonplace which is hardly ever questioned.”

When considering Marx and his views towards Jews, one must go further than his infamous essay, his correspondence also needs to be considered. Marx used the Bambergers to borrow money but showed contempt for them. In a derogatory fashion he referred to the father and son as “Jew Bamberger” or “little Jew Bamberger.” Similarly, Spielmann, whose name appears frequently in correspondence between Marx and Engels was referred to as “Jew Spielmann.” When on holiday in Ramsgate in 1879, Marx reported to Engels that the resort contained “many Jews and fleas.” In an earlier letter to Engels, Marx referred to Ferdinand Lassalle as a “Jewish nigger.” Professor Fine has not discussed this but I do not see such comments as “witty” or “ironic,” they are simply racist.

>A Marxist website has provided a list of articles written by Karl Marx between 1852 and 1861 for the New York Daily Tribune. It does not surprise me that “The Russian Loan” does not appear on this list. When apologists for Marx’s antisemitism run out of explanations, they simply ignore his words.

>>19003170
clearly haven't met many marxists. let me guess, your idea of a marxist is your school socialist club?

>>19003170
cope

Anarchist bonus round!

Proudhon
>Jews. Write an article against this race that poisons everything by sticking its nose into everything without ever mixing with any other people. Demand its expulsion from France with the exception of those individuals married to French women. Abolish synagogues and not admit them to any employment. Demand its expulsion Finally, pursue the abolition of this religion. It’s not without cause that the Christians called them deicides. The Jew is the enemy of humankind. They must be sent back to Asia or be exterminated. H. Heine, A. Weill, and others are nothing but secret spies ; Rothschild, Crémieux, Marx, Fould, wicked, bilious, envious, bitter, etc. etc. beings who hate us. The Jew must disappear by steel or by fusion or by expulsion. Tolerate the elderly who no longer have children. Work to be done – What the peoples of the Middle Ages hated instinctively I hate upon reflection and irrevocably. The hatred of the Jew like the hatred of the English should be our first article of political faith. Moreover, the abolition of Judaism will come with the abolition of other religions. Begin by not allocating funds to the clergy and leaving this to religious offerings. – And then, a short while later, abolish the religion.

>>19003175
yes anon that's how estimates work

>>19003198
no my idea of marxist is marxism. people who label themselves as marxists to me have rarely ever been acquainted with his writings.

>>19003191
>>19003200
>>19003210
are they wrong tho

>>19003210
>anarchists filled with resentiment
why am i not surprised

>>19003226
Marx was the weasely little prick in his rivalry with Bakunin, Bakunin humiliated Marx effortlessly and Marx would spend 5 years scheming over it.

>>19003217
marxism is slave morality cope for working class wh*tes that lost to the jew. most of them are gonna be antisemitic.

>>19003257
>marxist is about le morality!!
go back2reddit faggot

>>19003257
>he doesn't understand material interests
pea brain detected

>>19003309
youre right, slave morality isn't morality, it's pure cope

>>19000435
kek

>>19003358

>>19003384
it was my mistake thinking that marxists would be familiar with 19th century g*rm writing

>>19003384
Seethe

>>19002841
Yes, because a first simple take is always good for newbies.

>>19003191
>>19003200
>>19003210
Oh no no no marx bros we got too cocky

>>19000420
>free and accessible introduction to topics like philosophy and political theory?
What the actual fuck are you talking about? None of those dimwits provide an intro to any philosophy or political theory, the closest to doing so is probably contrapoints but even that is not what I'd expose someone to as an introduction. The rest range from grifters (Vaush, Shaun) to retards (Shoe0nhead, The Serfs, and though I realize that neither are literally retarded they are both so dumb that they may as well be).
>What percentage of people would you say actually continued to do their own reading
Literally less than 1%, the target audience for these shit stains are people too lazy to do anything but watch youtube and/or twitch. Even if their teenage/early 20s NEET audience tried to read something, their comprehension would be so low that it would render the endeavor pointless.

>>19000420
Ruined them and turned them all into homosexuals

>>19000420
You know what would be a better strategy for "deradicalization" than watching an agp hon explain why you're a transphobe?
State mandated Khazar gfs with mommy milkers.

>>19003784
What is Shaun's grift?

>>19004039
Promoting socialism while exploiting labor in the form of paying a video editor below minimum wage to make his youtube content, when the guy is earning 10-20k a month in Patreon contributions alone. Unless you're being a fuckwit, that's an either-or proposition.

>>19000444
your outrage is performative

>>19004322
that's just being an asshole/hypocrite, not a grift

>>19004602
Unless you're a mindreader you're not able to definitively tell among the two, personally I'd rather assume someone was smart enough to manipulate a bunch of teenagers to suck out their money (a grifter) rather than think they were such a dumb asshole that they can't even realize they were acting contrary to everything they espoused. A dumb person is of limited use no matter what their beliefs, while a smart person can be very useful if successfully converted. And all these youtubers can be converted with nothing more than cold hard cash.

>>19002878
You dont agree with their political views

Being a leftist is far better than being a masculinity obsessed Joe Rogan fan

>>19004873
post nose

>>19000923
>She
He's literally a man with long hair

>>19000420
I think a lot of people take whatever these guys say and run with it, sure. But I do think it's worth it to raise the level of discussion slightly, and also for those who do read deeper. Which was always going to be a fraction anyways.
>pic rel
I honestly think Contrapoints did nothing wrong. Her videos are very compassionate towards young guys. It's sad that a lot will never watch it because she's trans.

>>19005039
i watch her videos and follow her despite my own views. they're entertaining. however she is not a good example for men.

>>19005039
>Her
>she
go back

>>19005046
see >>19005060

>>19002307
>she

>>19005046
I tend to agree. I don't think she's trying to be though.

>>19005007
>everyone who disagrees with me must be a joo
post chin

>>19005062
if you call her a he at this point it's just being plane rude. contra puts so much effort. she's not a troon.
>>19005067
obviously not, but how can i tell someone that they should embrace their balls, and let their will to power triumph? indeed, what's between your legs should not be a limiting factor to the goals you want to achieve. transgender people in general are just mentally unwell people and they need help.

i could not live like that, the amount of effort needed to keep up appearances alone, I would literally be unable to go outside if I didn't look "correct", and I'd be suspicious of everyone who says I pass but secretly think I don't. it would be a stressful nightmare.

your body is a vessel, you should embrace what you are and still do it to get the job. transitioning is just putting yourself into another box, and transitioning white still being a lesbian!- is just superfluous.

>>19005091
That's a mentally ill man in a dress.

>>19005091
>if you call her a he at this point it's just being plane rude. contra puts so much effort. she's not a troon.
We'll he sure knows how to use studio lighting, I'll give him that.

>>19005134
yes but i am not so rude. do you go around to the schizos pointing at them and telling them "IT"S NOT REAL DUDDDE GET A GRIP"
>>19005136
oh well

>>19005091
Anon the effort or whatever is of no concern to these other anons. That's naive. Reminds me of posts on /pol/ to the ring of "there are black people, and there are niggers".

>>19005084
>da jo000o0o0o0z!!1!1!one!eleventycaturday
Ah yes some fine satire of /pol/, this will rally the hip young kids with their "memes" to your side

>>19005156
trannyism can be fixed, all it will take is a 12 hour long talk down and feeding the patient some hallucinogenic drugs so they can really think about what they are and their place in the universe.

the main caveat is that "men" who are convinced they are women weren't ever really masculine to begin with, and women should just not be transitioning at all. the latter is even more of a waste.

>>19003309
when it has been led by New Left fags crying about justice for the past half century I'd say it plays a large role at this point

>>19000420
>Is pic related true?
If they had more influence it would be
It's like the new atheist anglo trend all over again,it's a product of pseudo-leftist furstration (they post funny racist memes,they post transphobic memes,they don't take anarchism seriously!!!reeee I'll shown them!!)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=91_5OOmK1TQ
Here's your left-wing revolutionnaire bro,europeans being replaced?Deboonked

>>19005295
HEY I MADE THAT MEME!!!!!!!!!!!

>>19000926
>> he is called doomerpolitics and hearted a Sargon comment.
The guy is a socdem, he just rightfully hates Vaush and his commie fans so he's liking the retarded skeptics/right winger comments to make them seethe more.

>>19005039
>>19005046
>her
You are mentally ill.

>>19005091
I could put a lot of effort into looking black but it sure as hell wouldn't make me black.

>>19002692
>economic writing
theres not much of economics in marx's writings

>>19005331
kapital?????????

>>19005149
i tell schizo what they believe isnt real and manufacture a greater schizo narrative just like i tell troons they arent women but otherkin space-concious alter humans so the chance of them committing suicide goes up

>>19005341
and how much of it is academical economics

I've no idea what or who any of those are. Probably only amerimutt things.

>>19005350
i dunno. i looked through volume one and saw variables and noped the fuck out

>>19002650
Equating company organization with central planning an entire society makes you look EXTREMELY retarded.

>>19000444
Based Butterfly.

>>19002714
>not only is it possible, it's inevitable.

>>19002763
>marxists.org

>>19002896
>we can use techniques like POMDP and function approximation to deal with these things. even just linear algebra works surprisingly well and is used all the time in input-output analysis
I work in IEOR and am very familiar with these things. You're just another Marxist retard trying to throw around big words to impress the pseuds here.

https://crookedtimber.org/2012/05/30/in-soviet-union-optimization-problem-solves-you/

>>19002896
Also, "POMDP" is not a fucking technique you blabbering retard, it's a class of problems.

>>19005168
so salty. what a treat

>>19005350
>shitting on Capital while tacitly admitting to not having read it

>>19005369
it'll happen either way anon. see the falling rate of profit and the tendency of capital to accoomulate. when jeff bezos owns everything we will have autocratic planning, rather than the democratic planning that we seek

>>19005393
I've actually read that post. it makes some interesting points. recent advancement in mixed integer programming makes the non-convexity argument potentially null, at least for approximate solutions. exact solutions remain NP
>Also, "POMDP" is not a fucking technique you blabbering retard, it's a class of problems.
I'm going by what a colleague told me and hastily scribbled notes. my area is cosimulation and linear programming

>>19005295
>It's like the new atheist anglo trend all over again,it's a product of pseudo-leftist frustration
This desu,the alt-right when Trump got to power just basically trolled the pseudo-left by not taking Marx seriously at all,if you weren't getting a ''da joos'' you were getting ridiculed (venezuela,you're typing this from an iphone,stop using the internet if you don't like capitalism etc...)
I really fucking hate the alt-right now though,look at what they did to /pol/,the only interesting threads are shitposting threads and the mini happenings every now and then,the rest is brainrot,high quality posts regarding fascism and the philosophy of fascism are extremely rare there

>>19005452
>falling rate of profit
Not even Marxists believe this anymore. It has been deboonked.

>>19005469
post source

>>19005455
i made anon's meme he posted and he wont reply to me :(

>>19005488
>>19005309

>>19005499
I hope this is you

>>19005505
(real)

>>19002066
>direct action
In praxis this means doing dope with your Antifa buddies and starting street brawls with boomers and proud boys. When you get arrested the National Lawyer's Guild bails you out. CNN calls you heroes.

Worker's paradise any day now.

>>19005510
I am not those people

>>19005516
Well you can always try the other kind of direct action.

It's pretty lonely, though.

>>19005523
ted was dumb, concerning political manners

>>19000659
Not really, the internet directly influences marketing, journalists, activists, political staffers, and increasingly the direct socialization of new generations. If fact, it seems evident we are seeing a transition from the real world defining people's actions to the internet doing so - that is a transition from authenticity to profilicity.

>>19003191
>“The Russian Loan” does not appear on this list.
Because it was a forgery, it's not even a convincing imitation.

>>19001750
Not really. I watched hundreds of hours of breadtube and my views barely changed. They're transparently low-information, blindly sectarian, and fundamentally fail to see the real issues we face - especially in the long term. I remain convinced that third positionism is the only solution, and that the true political battle must be waged against the last-man-experience-machine bad end.

>Is it a good or bad thing to give millions of people a free and accessible introduction to topics like philosophy and political theory?
What, public education?

>>19000444
AND YOU WILL NEVER BE A WOMAN

>>19005091
He is absolutely caked in makeup holy shit.

>>19006179
Don't be a bigot

>>19005091
This guy's nuts

>>19005523
Pynchon's better

>>19000420
Shaun is not that bad because he only picks extremely weak opponents. He'll pick apart some low-effort right-wing commentary video or piece of PragerU propaganda and he'll be correct to do so because it really was terrible. There's a (usually implicit) leap at the end that because this argument is bad the entire position is indefensible, but what can you do, that's still 90th percentile as online politics goes.
Contrapoints is actually good, a rare example of someone willing and able to pass ideological Turing tests. Legitimately feels like truth-seeking instead of warfare. I remember reading a criticism that "she makes the right sound like they're somewhat reasonable instead of the monsters they are" and that's the sort of endorsement I like to see.

>>19005765
I envy you. People on both sides never engage their opponents directly. They just read bullet points and strawman arguments. People on the centere are spineless.

>>19000420
I keep thinking I should quit 4chan (as if I could!) because I see posts and references to online personalities like in the OP pic and realize I have no idea who any of these people are.

>>19006239
I can’t tell if your trolling or not but being a Whiney faggot on 4chan is not going to stop anyone being a bigot.

>>19000618
>Probably by forgoing all of the pointless aesthetics and actually talking about the subjects in some depth.
Jonas Ceika (Cuck Philosophy) is a good example of this.

>>19000420
Bro i once saw a video from the skull with sunglasses, about steven crowder's idea of the misconception of the racial differences as an inciting of racial segregation. And it was a 1h and something video.
It was a MASSIVE gish gallop of ad hominem arguments...
Very poorly discussed, very boring, just the gish gallop.
Sad, i thought the left was filled with smart people.
And the guy that was doing pranks during confirmation? I watched his video about national socialists... And it was also poorly made; other than the fact that he was always changing the subject, he had so many misconception about that party, i couldnt watch him for more than 15 minutes. Plus the dresses? Why does he always dress like a pornactress? And speaks with this very nasal voice... He looks like a lunatic.

>>19006250
what has the pynch got to do with anything here

>>19005295
>NOOOOOO THE LEFTIST MAINSTREAM NEWSPAPERS ARENT LEFTIST ENOUGH NOOO
holy cringe

>>19005295
I watched the first 17 minutes of this and I think this gave me brain damage. How does a person get to this point of autism?

>>19008562
Read the comments if you really want to lose faith in humanity.

>>19008570
>PT (Philosophy Tranny) is top comment
stopped scrolling there

>>19002878
I think there are 2 large demographics
1. those that don't like the culture and people of the right-wing but don't know how to combat their arguments. They are deathly afraid of being put on the spot and debating them irl so they watch these streamers digest whatever current event FOTM talking points are and spoonfeed rebuttals to them.
2. those that are desperate for an identity. keeping up with these ecosystems takes a lot of time and fills the void, gives a sense of kinship, like you're learning and doing a politik, plus you get entertained because they mix in all the latest me-mes so you feel like you're keeping in touch with cultural trends.

>>19000420
anytime watching them would be better spent reading actual political theory

>>19000420
People who watch them were already left leaning or progressive.
This whole deradicaliziton thing is a mere meme and wishful thinking, conservative and right winger have a dream of a certain society and they already don't care if it's bad for some people or not or if it's the ideal for all kind of people.
Their videos don't really matter to anyone who's not left wing already.

>>19009450
they're useful to entice libs, but that's probably about it

>>19002487
Sounds good, where does Jesus Christ come in tho? You have to do something about the nihilism ripping culture apart.

>>19003145
If you're a racist marxism isn't for you. Just continue to be liberal and lie in public.

>>19010617
>Karl Marx isn't a Marxist
Huh?

>>19010644
Marxism in practice really isn't very racist. Especially compared to liberalism/fascism. Sure you can say the great purge was anti antisemitism. But it's not Marx's fault that the Bolsheviks just happened to be Jews funded by international capital.

>>19003309
What a dumbass argument

> Muh Marxism is a scientific analysis of capitalism

Actually read Capital. To the extent that Marx uses the term Wissenschaft he certainly does not mean it in the sense of Humor, Popper or Carnap, but of Hegel. Furthermore, notice the continuous destruction of quality by capital into quantity. This is clearly a moral(or immoral) movement. The dialectic of quantity --> quality is a key component of the development of the ethical consciousness for Hegel.

>>19010664
>anti antisemitism
I meant antisemitism.

Bros how is this 420 thread still up?

>>19000420
Literally who are any of these people

>>19010668
Hume* not humor.

>>19010664
Fascism is civic nationalist and the leader didn't even believe race was real. And it doesn't matter if the practice isn't based on racism because by this logic Karl MARX and Che Guevara don't actually belong in Communism/Marxism.

>>19010664
Why is liberalism inherently racist? Wouldn't Communism be far more racist because of how closed off it is?

>>19000420
I don't know any of these people or what any of this means
Did my life get ruined through a tertiary effect of other teenage boys getting their lives ruined?

When is Contra going to stop with the video essays and begin writing books?

>>19005765
I know nothing about the topic, and am saging to avoid bumping, but I enjoyed the phrase "transparently low-information, blindly sectarian."

>>19007401
Not really. Examples of it are academic lectures. Cuck is very popular for a reason.

>>19000444
dub trips confirm that this is indeed the literature board

>>19000420
>shoeonhead
A leaf blowing in the wind. Has influenced no one.
>skull guy
A nobody. He was a nobody years ago when I first heard about him and presumably he's still a nobody.
>The Serfs
I have never heard of the serfs.
>tranny
Releases videos very infrequently. Most of his videos seem to be general phil with a left-leaning bent, so the total amount of "teenage-boy ruining" content must be very small.
>hbomberguy
IIRC most of his vids are on random media or deboonking Q-tier conservative talking points (his vid on onions, vaccines).
>vaush
Hasn't he been around for maybe 2 years tops? He seems popular but is he more popular than a right-wing equivalent like Smurgun of Akkud?
Maybe I'm out of touch with The Youth but is the next generation ruined? Even if it is disproportionately internet-socialist a majority of that ideological fervor will be redirected to either mainstream leftism or a developmental polarity-flip (see "I browsed /pol/ when I was 13 but now I'm 17 and one contrapoints video has converted me to being a communist transgirl").
I would guess that this image was created for onanistic purposes by someone on Reddit.

>>19010765
Liberalism is more racist because you freely allow individuals to be racist. A good example of this is through freedom of speech.

In reality I'm sure communist societies were quite racist especially the soviet union. At the same time the Western World thought the Slavic people were genetically inferior to them. This was very prevalent in Britain and Germany.

>>19010687
Log off bro, you're incoherent.

>>19011373
Sorry that you are too retarded to understand that the creator of Communism is a complete racist and that the creator of Fascism was not racist at all.

>>19011436
But in practice....

I'll tell you again log off bro, staying here isn't good for you.

>>19000420
I don't recognize any of these, are they references from the 80s?

>>19002683
>trading one extreme political view for another
>fixing anyone
Please, they're still gonna be shut ins and misanthropes that watch retarded youtube videos all day, just now they won't get banned off twitter.

>>19009450
you say that as if people <21 don't exist
I've been in enough streamers chats to see how many people donate money just to express how thankful they are for being deradicalized. although this is an ever shrinking series of concentric circles we're talking about and I'm sure it goes both ways

>>19000736
He is more of a marxist than Stalin.

>>19000882
>gets BTFO on his fascism segment
>"it's a joke, guyse"

>>19011436
Good think that communism is not a religein and that we can improve on older work.

>>19011600
deradicalized from what? are their viewers the Taliban? are they on mongolian basker weaving forums? have they, god forbid, said the n-word as part of a joke to their friends at some point?

>>19012195
their words not mine but yeah "deradicalized" from the gamer game anti-sjw sargon/jbp/shapiro alt-right pipeline

>>19010765
Communism is a mode of production. do you mean Marxism-Leninism?

>>19012519
>communism is a mode of production
A mode of producing what? Retards?

>>19000420
I have no idea who any of those people are.
Good.
The only YouTubers I like are Samuel Andreyev, the classical composer, and the Linux guy Luke Smith.

>>19012643
read a book dumbass

>>19012683
99% of books have nothing to do with whiny communist larpers. The 20th century "give me stuff for free" movement is irrelevant when discussing anything other than mass murder. Touch grass faggot.

>>19012702
>communism == give me stuff for free
booklet confirmed

>>19012752
>dissent detected
>posting default reply, "read book"
>dissenter pointed out that my default reply is retarded
>posting default reply, "read book"
Got a free tip for you buddy-bot: start with the Greeks.

>>19012765
>posting default reply, "read book"

>>19000420
Lmao seething rightoids

>>19012848
Just with those simple words I can tell you are both a Vaush fan and Shoe fan, both of them are completely retarded and so are you.
>t. not a rightoid
YWNBAW btw.

ok i think the top left guy is the majin buuesque character who streams on twitch for hours a day. i know someone who watches him all the time and also the turkish fella. his opinions have not improved for it
im aware of the post wall tranny but at least she puts in some effort. maybe ive never actually watched a video
isnt bottom left one of those anti feminism girls like 7 years ago? i remember her being annoying
idk the other 3
you shouldnt care about this shit look down on anyone who watches it

>>19000420
Literally who are these people
The only adolescent mind being swayed by e celebs is you, OP.

>>19000420
I don't know who any of these people are. I showed this to my cousin who's 15 and he also didn't know who any of these people were. My assumption is niche e-celebs that some discord queer made a meme about.

>>19012848
is this the intellectual left I keep hearing about

>>19009450
There is no such thing as "ideal for all kinds of people" society. There's racially and culturally homogenous, high trust and social capital society (not necessarily politically right nor left, and there are examples of both), and there's diverse high crime low quality of life zero trust shit hole society in which culture is largely controlled by an extremely small minority of degenerates. These two types of people and their societies are incompatible.

>>19000444
Do you even read literature? All you post are mediocre anarkiddie books

>>19000420
Why do people always assume that everyone is as infatuated with youtube e-celebs as they are?
No one knows these people
No one cares
You are alone in your obsession

>>19013493
It's usually the bottom of the barrel kids that become obsessed with politics

>>19002066
So why do you and your tranny liberal friends actively fight with the establishment against the ideology based on Sorel's political vision and principles?

>>19000420
Don’t know what this shit is

>>19000420
Shaun, shoeonhead and Vaush are essentially uneducated on most topics. Vaush could maybe give a good intro on certain strains of contemporary thought given his socio background but is hopeless in anything else. Hbomberguy is a smug obnoxious faggot. Idk what Contra's expertise is in so I withhold judgement. Anyhow no its a bad thing all these people have no clue what they are talking about and discourage others from engaging with actual academic material.

>>19002683
Shaun actually just gets all his info from his Discord.

>>19016748
contra has a degree in philosophy

>>19002683
Shaun is literally braindead, his videos used to be written by Jen, which explains why he's completely retarded in twitter while his videos are well made. He doesn't do any of the research or writting, he has other people do that for him.

>>19017449
Is there evidence for this or is it just speculation?
Gold if true.

>>19017449
Are they paid well or are they paid pennies while Shaun hogs the patreon money?

Why don't the right have the equivalent of Breadtube? People like Buckley were the first to introduce debate to the public and they were conservative.

>>19018190
Nearly all of them have been either outright banned or shadow banned by places like Youtube and Twitter(which is praised by the breadtubers and other useful idiots). Fucking Bronze Age Pervert got banned for jerking off to marble statues too much.

>>19017822
Here's are some of Jen's tweets about it.
https://twitter.com/deaths_cool/status/1287872558277132289
https://twitter.com/deaths_cool/status/1287875263921942531
>>19017866
He's taking a lot more than he should, as Jen compares it to "capitalist exploitation". To be transparent I'm not a leftie, I'm a socdem, but I always find it funny how all these lefties content creators always end up exploiting their workers, or hide how much money they make while not using their vast amount of wealth to help some of the organizations that "stand up" for theit beliefs, they are very hypocritical.