/lit/ - Literature

first for zyzz

Second for dumping car batteries in the ocean

>>18977373
CRITIQUE PLEASE
https://old.reddit.com/r/nosleep/comments/pgbpyw/monstrous_ethos/

I never ask others for criticism to keep my work and ideas pure and undiluted from anyone else's perspective

>>18977628
Based. Are you F. Gardner by any chance?

I never ask others for criticism to keep my work and ideas pure and undiluted from anyone else's perspective

>>18977373
Thread theme?
https://youtu.be/h-VIJ8Oi4iU?t=3834

>>18977628
Based
>>18978274
Cringe
Online feedback is only ever “you’e not copying the same authors as me” at best. It’s pretty much useless and will only fuck with whatever style you’re on your way to developing.
IRL feedback at least has the utility of making you feel good when somebody likes it.

The biggest mark of an amateur is an inability to take criticism.

Just WRITE bro. You don't need talent. You just need to be confident.

Kek, already this thread is a fucking disaster.

>>18978424
>muh talent
Writing is a craft. Like any craft it takes practice to get good, dedication for brilliance.

Imagine thinking you can just sit down one day and be a master writer, with a book deal flying itself into your lap.

>>18978459
This is cope and you know it, its time you face reality.

>>18978472

>>18977373
Getting feedback from anyone who isn't a published author within your own niche is useless

>>18978459
its a combination of both desu, you need to practice and some people are just more talented but you can also practice to a point where your essentially "gifted"

with each and every thread, /wg' ascends to a new zenith of literary composition

>>18978459
Suck my dick. Faulkner was an half-educated yokel. Spirit overpowers practice, education, formalism, all.

>>18977373
>saint_jerome_writing_by_caravaggio.jpg
Always put PBUH or RIP after St. Jerome's name. He was the GOAT man to ever live.

>highest IQ ever
>polyglot
>polymath
>semen retention practitioner

Here are some based quoates

>"Spouses live as animals; through sexual commixture with wives men do not differ in anything from pigs and other irrational animals" — St. Jerome (PBUH) in Patrologiae cursus completus: sive biblioteca universalis, Volume 23.

>“And it makes no difference how honorable may be the cause of a man’s insanity. Hence Xystus in his Sentences tells us that ‘He who too ardently loves his own wife is an adulterer.’ It is disgraceful to love another man’s wife at all, or one’s own too much. A wise man ought to love his wife with judgment, not with passion. Let a man govern his voluptuous impulses, and not rush headlong into intercourse. There is nothing blacker than to love a wife as if she were an adulteress.” (St. Jerome (PBUH), Against Jovinianus, Bk 1, n. 49)


>To sin is human, to lay snares is diabolical.


Take the Saint Jerome (PBUH) pill.

>>18978459
>there's no such thing as talent, only hard work

Such a common misconception, and i believe held by most people who don't have a specific talent.
Talent isn't some magical infusion of extra skill that somehow makes someone special, it's just your brain being wired in such a way that a certain set of tasks/things are easier for you than for others. Talent is basically having an easier time identifying the specific things that are needed for achieving the desired outcome than most others. And this also means that people with talent in a certain field have higher gains from practice in that field than others. That's all there is to it. If you don't agree, i'm pretty certain you've never had an easy time with anything that others are struggling with.

>>18978795
No, what I was referring to is people who think talent is all when it comes to success. Which was implied in the post I was referring to. So, you're born with perfect fingers for playing piano? Doesn't matter one note unless you actually play and keep at it.

>>18978675
/wg/'s been shit for a while now, the fuck are you on about.

>>18978824
yeah, i just wanted to clarify since i interpreted your post as leaning towards that talent isn't a factor. Also that post was an obvious shitpost (the one you replied to first).

Hello /wg/, I am currently in the process of writing a post-apocalyptic western dealing with themes of dogma vs ambiguity, the future of mortality, and the cyclical nature of history. It will have a female protagonist but I'm not afraid to make her someone worth hating. In fact, I don't think you can make compelling characters without leaving some readers polarized. I'm just wondering if this is a premise you would find interesting, if executed well.

>>18978893
you should've asked sffg since people there are more interested in your topic and on here people will most likely tell you that the execution is all that matters.
My personal opinion is that your idea is nothing special, but if executed well could be interesting. See?

>>18978893
We don’t care, either write or don’t.

>>18977373
You should definitely cull the reading list and try and narrow it down to stuff that’s useful and accessible

>>18978893
>a post-apocalyptic western dealing with themes of dogma vs ambiguity, the future of mortality, and the cyclical nature of history
Sounds really generic and done to death, Mad Max comes immediately to mind, what new and worth saying do you think you can add to the pile?

Evaluating someone's "premise" is a waste of time anyway. No surprise, execution is what matters. I might tell you now, "yeah, sounds great, do it!" And then you write the story and none of these themes can be found in it, you were just making up shit. And then you come here like, "why did you tell me to do it, everybody hated it and I wasted my time!" Well, how the fuck I am supposed to know how you actually interpret these really vague things?

So it boils down to this >>18978981

Should I stop trying to make something if I'm partially motivated to add actual meaning to it so that I can skirt around obscenity laws?

>>18979124
It's not like you were actually planning on writing in the first place.

>>18979000
Isn't it also true that derivative works have gained notoriety because they pander to the mass desire for escapism? Although, I get your point. The problem is that what readers say they want is not what they actually want. The author should somehow stimulate the reader's intellect while indulging their destructive proclivities. Shit needs to happen, but not in an organic way; the pacing and characterization must be over-wrought, fine-tuned to hit the correct emotional triggers and register "depth", "authenticity", "meaningfulness". I'm trying to make you feel *something*, anything! Authors cannot be expected to carry the burden of innovation when contemporary readers lack the will to recognize it

>>18979162
Either write or don’t.

>>18979162
>Authors cannot be expected to carry the burden of innovation when contemporary readers lack the will to recognize it
Massive cope. It's like saying there can't be any new good yet original songs cause most people have shit taste and want the same old shit regurgitated in a new packaging. It can be done. Believe in yourself. Execute.

>>18978893
>dogma vs ambiguity
>the future of mortality
>cyclical nature of history
I am also doing something similar to this but it diverges in a way, are we on to something?
My setting is more utopian, feels quaint and rural peppered with the bizarre, after an attempted dystopian apocalypse. Primarily male protagonist but also female deuteragonist if not antagonist.
Hits on a theme of a world where faith has become sight, and looking deeper into what faith actually remains.
The cyclical nature of history in my view is tied to the immutable nature of men, and also linked to the way we form beliefs about ourselves and faith. So I want to show a supposed end of that history cycle utopia while building the case that nothing has actually changed.

I'd be interested in reading your book if you finished just because we're thinking about similar things but we may end up making very different statements in different styles.

>>18979162
You need to stop reading so many books written in the early 1900's. It's 2021, use at least half 2021 diction and style.

Too much of my characters' dialogue with each other is made up of questions. How do I avoid falling into this trap?

>>18979859
Make them more competent so at least one of them knows answers, and you can relay the information before the questions get asked. You can have sentences that imply that a character doesn't know something without it coming out as a question in dialogue.
Do be careful about making scenes that is "maid and butler" which is two characters sharing information that they both know and agree upon completely; this is another trap you will want to avoid more than characters who ask questions. You want to have conversations with at least a small amount of disagreement or there's little interesting besides what the reader is learning.
It could also be the case that one of your characters is very insecure and impulsively asks questions. I have known abuse victims and that was their coping mechanism, they got furious when even seemingly contradictory information was presented or not presented in a timely manner. If you have a character like this, maybe hang a lantern on that trait with a character making not of how many questions they ask.

>>18979978
Thank you

>>18978893
Why would a blurb tell me if it would be a 'good book'? It tells me the broad strokes of 300 pages in one sentence. Anything reduced like that has the possibility of being good your fucking troglodyte.

>DAE WANT TO READ A BOOK ABOUT PET DOG WHO DISCOVERS ALIENS ARE REAL BUT NO ONE BELIEVES HIM BECAUSE HE'S A DOG?

That sounds retarded, but you could turn that into the most heart wrenching Old Yeller bullshit with dripping character development and sorrowful swaths of tragedy. Imagine: the dog is best friends with the teenage boy, who knows something is wrong, but can't figure out what, gets distracted by girls and school, the parents are getting a divorce and fight because one has chemo brain and the other was military. The dog discovers aliens that are going to enslave the human race with technology that completely strips an individual of consciousness, but only after a perceived 1000 years of torture in a blink of an eye for the process to work. But this is a dog. He doesn't have opposable thumbs. He can't open doors. He barely learned how to play fetch. He can't talk to people or write. How does he warn them? Can he even warn them in time?

Why the fuck would you ask if a blurb idea is "good"? Anything can be anything when you haven't actually MADE THE THING. Go write the book you want to write and come back when you have a more detailed question besides 'should I write this idea?' Come to us when you need help fleshing that idea out or what should particularly happen next or what motif you want throughout the book or literally anything other than "IS IDEA GOOD?"

>>18978824
>So, you're born with perfect fingers for playing piano? Doesn't matter one note unless you actually play and keep at it.
It's funny. I've always been told by musicians that my fingers, which are fairly long and nimble, were extremely well suited to piano or guitar. Too bad I decided to write instead.

I'm scared to publish anything because I know if I posted it on lit you would tear it apart. So I respect the meme writers even if people call them bad

>>18981715
I don't understand this mindset. I'm writing a story that I've been pouring nothing but passion into for months and when I post it, I want it ripped to shreds so I know what's shit and what's good. Why would you even come here of all places if you want your critics to walk on eggshells? Maybe reddit is more your speed.

>>18981715
What do you have to be afraid of if it's not published anywhere else before? Meme writers have their insane meme writer brand, it's their only selling point.

I'm reluctant to post samples here because I have published and will publish my stories on Amazon and other websites and maybe even traditionally, and I don't want anon to track me down and meme me to pieces in front of normal audiences, who will all go like "holy shit he's a racist pedo incel who posts on 4chan??" and I might as well kill myself after that.

>>18982143
um sweaty this is 4channel, not that gronald grump supporting fascist h8site 4chan. you'll be okay. worst case you'll have to grovel on your hands and knees flagellating yourself for years and years. assuming you're not a wh*te m*le though, right? that would be unforgivable

if the stuff you're publishing is so milquetoast it doesn't skewer any sacred cows, you may as well never have put it out there at all. being from 4cham should be one of your more trivial offenses

>>18982143
What an irrational fear unless someone screencaps your post and it has the word nigger in it 50 times. 4chan isn't inherently bad.

I wanna write a novel quickly but I also feel that a 50k word novel is too short to introduce all the characters and action that I want included in my historical romance novel. I’ve written 2000 words of the first scene of two characters just talking in a carriage. If I set myself a limit of 50k then I’d have to begin the action in the fourth scene (page 24), whereas I feel that I could absorb my reader into the medieval world and by page 60 have them completely invested into my world, though having the book be 200 pages.

>>18982908
Why 50k specifically? write the story as long as it needs to be unless you're aiming for traditional publishing. Don't measure things in pages.

What do you write every day? Do you fiction writers actually work on a story every single day?

>>18983663
>What do you write every day?
Enough to see progress in my story
>Do you fiction writers actually work on a story every single day?
Yes

>>18983663
Routines are different for everyone but deadlines can be helpful if you need motivation to write. I spend half my time daydreaming and the other half researching. My writing tends to come in bursts so it's difficult to try to set aside time for it, especially due to writer's block. I help myself feel better by reminding myself that Bridget Jones' Diary is lifted from Pride and Prejudice so even hacks can make it in publishing

>>18983663
I don't write everyday. Whenever I am writing it is almost exclusivity my main story however.

Do you still hoard pornography in your computer after wanting to be a writer? Do you still fap?

What Light Novels should I study to become a successful anime writer?

>>18983963
monogatori series, melancholy of haruhi suzumiya, pretty much anything before the medium blew up. You could also just write a story because anime is just a visual style not a literary one.

>>18983993
Haruhi was a light novel first? Huh.

>>18977373
how do i write if i'm depressed, i don't want to do anything but sleep

>>18984255
Wake up every day at same time. Meditation technique to calm your mind, aka breathing exercises. Look into getting SSRIs to help you along the way. See a psychologist if you'd want to, but most importantly: talk to people about your problems, and learn cognitive therapy so you can fight your own thoughts and emotions. After that it's all about finding your goals and working towards them one small day at a time. Get social contacts and find new interests to help you thrive.

Also read this book. It's a perfect fit for /lit/ and depressed people.

>>18981715
That only happened to Waldun because he bills himself as some kind of literary wunderkind and deserved to be taken down a peg. It happened to Gardner because we thought mockery would make him stop shilling it, but we underestimated his desire for attention. It sucks because the really decent authors never really get any attention. Like there this guy I've seen in /wg/ before who writes a series called "The Magic of Naked Girls" or whatever and it's genuinely humorous and technically competent, but it never gets memed.

Protip: if you literally never ever see mention of a book or author outside of 4chan you can be guaranteed that every thread about their work is just them self-shilling. You can go weeks and weeks without seeing a thread about John David Card and suddenly one will just magically appear.

>>18984285
thank you, I will look into this

https://dipp.substack.com/p/arise-ye-victims-of-fermentation

thoughts?

>>18984255
start with just setting a little goal for yourself. could be as small as 100 words a day, it's a place to start if you don't write at all.

im burned out from writing my novel and taking a break. you guys ever get burnt?

>>18984431
i write all day then i pass out from writing then i wake up and write some more

>>18982944
fuck off with this shit advice. I need limits - an end goal. I need boundaries. I need fucking structure you ape. Fuck off back

>>18984726
>structuring your story based on an arbitrary word limit
Probably the most autistic thing I've ever seen in these threads and that's saying a lot

>>18982479
>4chan isn't inherently bad.
I assure you, if my relatives and friends heard about me browsing this site, googled it, and took a good look at any of the boards, none of them would ever speak to me again.

>>18984312
Oh look the anti-Gardner shill is back. Unlike you I have actually read Call of the Crocodile. I enjoyed it.
By the way. There’s no way it’s really Gardner himself shilling it. He has several books (not sure how many but I think around 10) and the last time I remember seeing his actual 4chan ads it was for new books. Everyone here knows spamming a single book you’ve made would serve no practical purpose. I’m not sure why Call of the Crocodile became so popular here compared to his others. But if you analyze the situation it’s clear it can’t actually be him.

>>18984828
Also your point about how “you can go weeks without seeing X books mentioned” refutes the asinine Gardner conspiracy theory. Call of the Crocodile threads have never ended and he has written many books since then. If it was him he would spam the others. And there’s never been a hiatus.

Is there any work that talks about sensory overload?

Im trying to show it in my current work but the closest thing i got to it is Faulkner style stream of consciousness

>>18984726
>>18984813
Having a word limit isn't bad

1.It forces you to keep the pace of your story even and helps it flow well. If you write without an end in mind, you might find your work to meander. One should consider outlining your story first before you start writing to help in this process.

2. If you plan on getting the work traditionally published, via the big companies, their subsidiaries, agents, or indies, word count is very important. These people stick very much to the old school rules of genre publishing. Novella tend to be around or under 40k words. Fantasy, for example, tends to be around 100k words. If this is your goal, then you need to do some research in this regard.

3. However, if you're going to self publish or just write for fun, it may not matter for you. Do what you want and improve your skill. If 50k doesn't seem like enough, plot the book out first the best that you can, and then start writing. Maybe make it a loose limit because you're not sure.

>>18978277
Hi, this is OP. I showed this to my friend and he really liked it. Thanks

What does your writing process look like?
What time of day do you write? How many hours at a time? Do you listen to music or keep things quiet? Do you prefer pen and paper or some specific word processor? Do you write every word, sentence and chapter sequentially? What do your outlines and character cards look like? Do you edit each chapter immediately as it is completed?

>>18986898
Write on weekends or in the middle of the night

I just sit at the PC and then i write 500 hours then i do waste more time

I usually listen to some kind of music, it depends on what story im working on

Outlines are barebones in txt files, use an online writing platform, write whatever i feel like it

How trustworthy is Google Docs?

>>18987021
its google what the fuck do you think

>>18987021
I use it because i can switch between writing on my phone or pc. But its google so...

>>18987021
what do you even mean by trustworthy? if you're going to write a manifesto as a preface to your suicide shooting bonanza i'd say it's not the best place, but if you're just gonna write i don't see the reason not to have your writing available in any device. Edit and format in another program when you're reaching the final stages of a piece of work. I really haven't been able to do as many things in google docs as i can in word.

>>18986898
>What does your writing process look like?
Just write like a flow of consciousness. Any road blocks like names I put place holders (TK - To Come) and write until i reach my word minimum did the day, or if I pass that write until the juiceflow peters off.

I follow a very loose outline (mental or typed) but the big plot points are usually cemented

>What time of day do you write?
Varies. Night usually be after 12pm since I struggle with a sleep schedule a d waking up before 9am on my days off.

>How many hours at a time?
Varies. Might write up to 7 hours. This includes me procrastinating.
>Do you listen to music or keep things quiet?
Music is nice sometimes.

>Do you prefer pen and paper or some specific word processor?
I'd have to type it if I used p&p anyway. I mainly use Scrivener 3.

>Do you write every word, sentence and chapter sequentially?
I absolutely write sequencially.

>What do your outlines and character cards look like?
I'll post images as example later when Im off the wage cage.

>Do you edit each chapter immediately as it is completed?
Yes.

>>18985946
>helps it flow well.
This is the opposite of what it does. You're just fucking up your scenes, trying so hard to fit them in meaningless, artificial boundaries, instead of letting things pan out organically.

When you're writing your first draft, don't think about the word count, don't look at it, just don't. Finish the draft, give every part of it the attention it NEEDS. And then, after it's all done, look at where you are, what you can cut/add, if necessary.

>word count is very important
Not nearly as important as you think. There are no rules how long some genre shit book has to be. Anything goes if it works. Most of these turds just tend to be copies of each other so they end up around the same 3-act length.

But 50k is very short for a novel.

>>18987021
I use it for spellchecking. Just copypaste a segment, clean it up, and remove after I'm done. Ain't storing shit in there

>>18987880
>implying the shit you paste there and then delete is not still getting sent to google for "anonymous" analysis to "better meet the needs of our users"

>>18986898
>>18986898
I write everyday. I write 2 or 3 hours at a time, take a 5-10 minute break and get back to it for another session. I prefer to start writing at 6PM on weekdays until 11PM, on weekends I like to have a couple morning sessions too but I give plenty of time for chores and reading also.
If it's the first draft I listen to any music I want because my neighbors' dogs inevitable bark. There is also a deaf guy that walks outside and howls and I don't think he realizes how annoying it is. In my second and third draft I listen to music more suited to the mood and style of what I'm trying to write.

I use a word processor, but I have lots of handwritten notes from when I'm away from the computer. My outlines have lots of things. There is a chapter and scene breakdown of scene/sequel format, the emotional and physical goals to keep me on track, and it's within some large structure (e.g. 5 Part Tragedy). I have list of what is familiar and original in the story. I have list including setting, idea, character and event elements of the story. A list of subplots, twists, reader questions, themes, character analysis including weakness, motivation, and their role in the plot. I have charts for symbolism, foreshadowing and other literary devices and where they are spread out in the story. A trunk of unused lines.
I stream of consciousness through the first draft from my outline and once all the chapters are done I can edit from there to make sense of it all. I don't always write the chapters in order, I hit the story beats that are most critical first and then have scenes to help build towards them. Generally have 4 drafts with increasing degree of detail.

>>18987585
>I'd have to type it if I used p&p anyway. I mainly use Scrivener 3.
I haven't tried it myself, but I've seen a few people advocate pen and paper for this exact reason. The process of typing also serves as a first pass at editing where you can catch mistakes.

>spend literal weeks outlining 200 chapters of a planned web serial/novel
>can't bring myself to begin writing the first chapter because I fear it's going to be complete shit
I need somebody to convince me that no matter how bad my writing is, people on Royal road will still read it and appreciate it. I've written like half a million words on other drafts of other things that I never released before, so I'm fairly confident that I'm not complete ass at sentence structure and other things. I've just never attempted to write something that actually has what you might call "Mass appeal" before, and I'm really worried that people are going to read this story and immediately realize that I deliberately dumbed down the themes so that they could be accessible and not scare away retards.

>>18988535
Anon, think of your least favorite books and popular romance or YA books you hate. They all have an audience. Go look at the top shit on RR. It’s all trash, but people read it. Look at the half dozen people in these threads that post on RR. People will read anything. You’ll find your audience. Don’t worry so much about it.

>>18988555
That's honestly quite encouraging to think about. I guess I'll just bite the bullet and do it. Can't start posting until I've made a backlog though sadly.

Is /wg/ dead?

>>18989921
No, everyone is just really into writing their stories about a dog who discovers aliens.

>>18989921
It’s been dead for weeks. Also why the fuck did you bump it?

What's another way to describe the supporting cast/secondary characters? Both of these terms are rather long

>>18989932
Google must be extremely difficult for you to use.

>>18986898
I write in bursts every few days when I feel like I have to, either out of self loathing for not having written or feeling like I have to get something out. Usually, it’s in the evening on weekdays and in the mornings on weekends. I use Google docs and a shitty laptop I bought for $200. My process is that I write up a quick summary and/or outline, get frustrated at how horrible it is, the feelings of self loathing intensify, then I stop. Rinse. Repeat.

>>18988535
everything on RR is shitsekai and litrpg that has and audience of ESLs and npcs. Don't dumb down your story because you will regret it forever.

OP here, I'm not the one who posts all the writing generals, it's random anons who take turns. But I think wg is an important community to nourish because even if a specific thread isn't as productive as it could be, it's still a hub for trading knowledge that writers of all levels can participate in, which is sadly rare on the internet these days. Reddit is plebeian. Dedicated forums are niche or dead. The real time aspect is what keeps me coming back to wg and lit. It gives me hope for the future.

>>18990160
I agree OP, I love these threads despite the constant doomsaying and low-effort shitposts

>>18990160
Thats a face that knows there are aliens and can do nothing about it.

>>18990160
>. But I think wg is an important community to nourish because even if a specific thread isn't as productive as it could be,
Nothing is being nourish here but the delusions of pseuds.

>making fun of based alien dog anon
sure, the premise for that story sounds retarded, but if approached with the correct tongue in cheek attitude it sounds like it could be super fun to read and write. as a short story it sounds like it has a lot of potential.
btw aliens aren't real and even if we were there's nothing a dog could do about it

>>18990221
>sure, the premise for that story sounds retarded, but if approached with the correct tongue in cheek attitude it sounds like it could be super fun to read and write. as a short story it sounds like it has a lot of potential.
No it won't, and you know it.

>>18990160
i like these threads because theres actual talk about writing unlike dedicated forums which all have people saying nothing meaningful or interesting

>>18990226
really do you lack that much imagination? the story opens with a short monologue introduction from the dog. narrator voice depends on the breed. quick jaunt through puppyhood, getting adopted by a family, playing fetch with the family's kid. then one day, everything changed. little Billy (Billy is the kid's name) became entranced with a rectangular handheld device. everyone in the family was. and everyone out in the world. thus sets the scene and the dog starts his adventure destroying cell phones. alien crisis averted.

anons who have completed their books:

what ratio was your time spent on writing first draft vs. editing?

>>18990253
Fellow Norm enjoyer

>>18990275
>anons who have completed their books:
I don’t think people here completed drafts before.

>>18990275
I am almost done with my book, at 250k words drafted, probably 30k to go, releasing it on RR. Like 145k released atm. I'd say I've spent at least twice the amount of time editing as I did drafting. And another serious editing pass when its complete and I throw it up on KU will likely be required.

>>18990221
You got it all wrong, the dog isn’t an alien the dog learns about aliens!

>>18990320
no, dog, you are the aliens
and then the dog was a zombie

>>18990306
did you have fun the whole time while writing?

>>18990382
drafting? the very, very start of the story was rough. I was developing the MC's voice, the story is 1st person and I experimented with making a 3rd person chapter which I ended up scrapping but which I used the ideas for worldbuilding. so the start was tough, but as soon as I was maybe 20k words in and I had the MC down it got really fun. I basically had a skeleton outline and just did whatever in between. I created two characters that I had never even considered when planning but they became very important to the story. I wrote about 175k words in a little more than 4 months because I had no thanksgiving or christmas obligations because of covid and work was not very demanding at the time. obviously some days were easier than others, and some scenes were easier than others, but drafting the story has been the most fun thing I've done in years.
Editing has been more like work. But its necessary. And while its not even as close to as fun as drafting was, its enjoyable in its own way.

>>18990339
Hadn’t thought of John was a zombie in a while. Kek.

Woof. Woof woof woof. Bow wow. Bark bark. Yap. Woof woof? Woof. Woof!

Dumb question. I’ve been reading Kitchen Confidential and the narrative style is thrilling. It’s part story telling, part memoir, part ideological rant, part instruction guide. Are there any famous fiction books written in this style? Dialogue is sparse except as a punchline. It feels like when an old man at a bar just starts telling me his life stories that turn into ideological rants that turn into life advice. I think it’s something I might be able to cobble together. Any suggestions?

>>18980853
You could have made your whole reply one sentence but you chose to make this drawn-out circumlocution wank instead.

>>18984416
>substack
Stopped midway through because you are jumping and hopping from perspectives a little too much. I liked the voice but you may want to work on engaging the reader.

>>18985977

>>18990965
Hey Butterfly, my little kitten, can you be my perfect little slave? I want to own you in every way, via every hole.

>>18986898
I down a shot of whiskey at 3 am, put on some fitting music, and write sequentially. I edit the chapters when I'm sober a few days later.

Tips on how I can become the next F. Gardner?

>>18991141
Step one: accumulate dirty CIA money
Step two: hire a bunch of glowniggaz to shill your books in discord
Step three: pay for premium 4chan ads that lead to your novel series on Amazon
Step four: never look back, never stop grinding. Also, do interviews and gain influence.

>>18988535
If your story flops, I guarantee, it won't be because of "themes"

>>18991200
What makes it flop to you? Characters and plot?

>>18987922
That's possible, but if I paste everything in small pieces, always replacing the previous text on the same document, there's a chance they won't get every segment or have them in a mixed order and will at least have to see some effort to piece the story together. And if it takes effort, then they might not bother in favor of more easily accessible texts.

That being said, I'm a little weirded out how often some ideas, plot devices, set pieces and dialogue from my stories have appeared in popular movies recently. Within a year or two AFTER I wrote them

>>18991215
That, or the narrative being an incoherent jumble. Ask the wish mountain guy if you want examples.

>>18991191
You're implying F. Gardner is in the CIA? That's ridiculous.

>>18991225
>incoherent jumble.
I fear my stories are like that without a good edit.
>wish mountain guy
Who’s that?
>>18991244
I’m not the first anon to speak the truth on Gardner’s background. He even ran for president once.

>>18991267
He’s part of the Unreal Bros. They’re like the Illuminati making all the books popular here.

>>18991355
Tranny server that has hijacked /lit/. Except they’re all writers.

>>18991355
Another absurd conspiracy.

Rate my first para
>My iris story begins with what I hoped would be a career of both fame and fortune. Some year in the mid-1950’s, Jordan Marsh, the venerable old Boston department store, now nonexistent, put out a call for a teenage model. I mailed in a Brownie camera photo of myself along with a much labored-over essay, “Why I Want to be Marsha Jordan.” Alas, mine was not chosen. Neither were my friends’. The disappointment, however, deterred neither them nor me from making Jordan Marsh a favorite Saturday afternoon destination. Taking the trolley from our suburban homes into town and examining the latest window displays somehow confirmed our superior sophistication, the Marsha Jordan winner notwithstanding.

>>18991561
Stopped reading after iris. Its shit.

>>18991563
It’s a story from a publication called Constellations, chud.

>>18991601
Publication must have some awful editors because it's shit

Im gonna write out my garbage, publish it somewhere for free and then im going to kill myself

How do I write a character arc?

>>18991778
Let’s see you do better, incel.

>>18990275
Usually 50:50. The most time consuming of each part is first figuring out what you want to do, and the editing part is making sure you did it right. First drafts can take me two weeks and really no time at all because I already mostly sure what I want to do.

>>18990302
Fuck you.

>>18990275
It’s kinda hard to answer in measures of time spent working as the editing process also takes a long time just in general since you’re waiting for beta readers to finish reading and you also need time to figure out the solutions to the critique you’ve recieved. I spent a year or so writing the first draft, and i have now finally completed the last draft (which took about 2 more years due to waiting for feedback etc. But in hours i’d say i spent more writing than editing).

>>18991904
Use the DREAM plotting tool for setting up character change:
>Denial
>Resistance
>Exploration
>Acceptance
>Manifestation
It's actually similar to the stages of grief. The way I would go about it is first decide upon the themes of your story, and then come up with characters that can be affected by those themes. I pick some that choose different ways to react to those themes, like where they start and end in relation to those and the other characters.
>have lots of try-fail cycles for Acceptance
>if you skip steps, the character arc falls flat

>>18991904
Character moment is better than character arc. Thinking at it this way, made it easier for me to set conflict in motion.

Write what you know best, they say. All i know best is writer’s block. It’s like i’ve fried my brain with story beats and character goals. I try to read classics but they bore my eyes out. Like a Zen master’s mind, my inner landscape is blank but with desolate feel. There is no hope, and even hopelessness is absent. My inner novelist is totally marooned and cast out, like it never even existed.

>>18992176
>"write what you know"
>my writing is about exploring the unknown

've made a few games, I scored a max 250 on the writing and English test at my college, I've written a few creative works that got me the attention of a few authors and the like that bestowed me with some grants, I'm in the process of writing several books. I can type well over 100 WPM, i can translate things from Spanish to English, I've been a gamer for over 25 years, I have a background in competitive gaming, I've scored top 10 on several fighting game leaderboards which gives me a idea of game balance that exceeds a average/casual gamer. I have a Voice Acting talent, I submitted my demo to a business that travels to my town at the lake for voice acting classes, and have scored top 14 on IHeartRadio's Singing Contest a few years back. I don't encounter "writers block", which is where my lesser peers run into a dead end of creating their works of fiction. I do Boxing and MMA and have contacts for Spike Tv, for broadcasting purposing for American Television, and can probably get them to do a series on Mortal before or after the fights, idk there is a lot of ways I can contribute. And I currently Work in I.T, which gives me a technical background, for one of the top companies in Seattle Washington.

>browse around the writing advice section of youtube
>generally videos like "Amateur writing tells", "Dos and don'ts", "Rules for first time authors", "Rookie mistakes made", etc sort of basic infos
>for each one I go and check out their published works
>every one of these women's written works are complete fucking trash and yet they're presuming to make preachy youtube videos on the subject

And yes I say women because it seems like every single pundit on the writing section of youtube is some 30ish english teacher looking lady with an incredibly overbearing and know-it-all yet snarky and bubbly delivery and attitude that comes off cringey. Alexa Donne seems to be the archetype for all these channels.

How do I force myself to write? I could write 300 words per day before, but now I only pop out enough to fill a dialogue line or two before my mind starts switching priorities. The worst part is that when I'm idling I still keep thinking about the story. I've been thinking of cutting my internet as a solution.

>>18992595
Advice and execution are different things but yeah I'd go with advice directly from people who have made it. You can have all the knowledge in the world but if you don't have the wherewithal to edit a story it's gonna be trash. Books that have extensive line-by-line editing tend to bring in royalties long-term because there's no substitute for good writing.

>>18992750
The same way anything gets done, work yourself into a feeling. You can't feel yourself into working because our feelings change all the time. Just sit down and write even if most of it gets edited out later, you need the momentum. Feel free to take a day off after a 1st manuscript or publishing.

>>18992595
My favorite is the "terrible writing advice" channel on youtube. The guy makes these ironic videos where he gives terrible writing advice and you are supposed to invert everything. I checked his published works once and it's just one book of cookie cutter timetravel fantasy book that appeals that might interest the dumber half of the 14 year old demographic. This of course proves his mastery of the craft of writing so he is fully qualified to give advice to others.

>>18992750
Be well rested.

>>18978893
History is not "cyclical" in the real sense of the word. It spirals forward in motions that you may consider as cyclical if you're playing mental gymnastics but it never goes back to its original state. Also I dislike your idea. It's shit.

>>18979162
>Authors cannot be expected to carry the burden of innovation when contemporary readers lack the will to recognize it
Yes, they can, otherwise they are not good authors. Are you just doing this to appeal to an audience? Who gives a fuck about what readers think they want, are you an artist or do you simply want recognition? Do you have artistic integrity or no?

>Artists/Musicians/Authors in the 1900s
We can produce shocking works of art that the audience doesn't even want or understand, because we value innovation and creativity over public opinion. It doesn't matter if a riot breaks out, if critique is overwhelmingly negative, and if we are seen as savages, because people from the future will recognise our artistry and will be inspired by it.

>Artists/Musicians/Authors in 2021
Noooooooo! Noooooo! Authors cannot be expected to carry the burden of innovation when contemporary readers lack the will to recognize it!

What the fuck went wrong?

>>18992595
I came across an obscure author called Devin Madson. Her self-published books were scouted by Orbit Books. She says she wasn't even looking to get traditionally published. Obviously, she couldn't refuse a deal with a big publisher, so she signed a 6 book deal with them. All her previous self-published books (minus 1) are now in traditional publishing. And her YouTube writing advice is also generic.

I read a bit of her first trad published book. It's not the greatest thing. The biggest difference between the self-pub and trad pub books was the editing. Orbit seemed to have gone pretty hard on turning the books into something they wanted to sell.

But for those of you who think that self-pub is a deadend and will never lead to traditional publishing: Just know that there are at least a few scouts out there who are willing to pick up trash.

>>18992983
You are projecting the filtered remnants of the past onto the vast sea of content you seen in contemporary life. The works and strides of innovation in the 21st century will not be seen until we are old or dead. How many hundreds of thousands of hours of photoshop tutorials are out there showing radical artistic techniques never thought of before the advent of modern computing? What kind of sounds can computers now make that would never be real in the real world?

There will always be contemporary popular artists that history does not respect. Edward Bulwer-Lytton was a renowned contemporary of his time. What is left of him now? A peanuts joke of the phrase "it was a dark and stormy night". That is the lasting impact of one of the top popular artists of his time. We do not know what the future brings. It is possible 100 years from now some writer from /wg/ will be known for some ground breaking literary outsider art bullshit. Or the only thing about /wg/ known will be memes of f.gardner around a very small group, mocked for thinking anyone on this god forsaken website could make something good. We just don't know.

>>18993021
No I agree with you, this is not the point that I am making. I was criticising the statement made by the specific anon I quoted >>18979162 . History demonstrates that innovation/inventiveness creates long-lasting artistic impact and is necessary for the advancement of the arts, thus it is inane to say that artists shouldn't be expected to carry the burden of innovation. Being afraid of public opinion means you shouldn't even be writing, let alone hoping to ever make it in the creative field.

>>18993021
>It is possible 100 years from now some writer from /wg/ will be known for some ground breaking literary outsider art bullshit.
Me.

>>18993051
Oh I didn't see a quote. Sorry.
>>18993056
post physique/work/loomis

>>18993104
>post work
No, you will rip off my genius ideas

>loomis
No rules, just tools

>physique
Fit, skinny, long and wavy brown hair, upturned green eyes, high cheekbones, slim waist...

>>18993195
>No, you will rip off my genius ideas
No one is going to write the alien dog story. Get over it.

Effective writing seeks to attack existence and demolish reality. It is inherently combative, confrontational, and offensive in nature. Once you understand this principle all will become clear. It is the process of individuation, of breaking out of and thrusting aside the cage of convention and "safeness."

>>18993215
OW
THE
EDGE

>>18992750
>I could write 300 words per day before
Whoa dude, you were able to produce one grade school essay in JUST ONE DAY?? You probably burned out your brain for life with that inhuman schedule

>>18993559
You likely have not published anything though.

>>18993619
>w-well y-you can't do any better!
300 words a day is fucking pathetic. You write more than shitposting on 4chan I guarantee it.

>>18993625
Most of my poems aren’t 300 words. I take more than a day to write them too. You have no concept of form or what’s required of a work.

>>18993632
>m-muh poems
Fucking lol

>>18993632
There one was a poster on /wg/
Who unfortunately had a small peepee
He bitched, moaned, and cried
That he knew how to write
But had the output of a quadruple amputee

>>18993642
Yeah, but novels died in the 1950s, so well done working in a dead form.
>>18993663
Post your publications then.

>>18993213
kek

>>18993699
>Post your publications
Just did, and more people read my shitty 5 minute limerick about your tiny cock and laughable output than have read all of your works combined.

>>18993706
>5 minute limerick
You rhymed like three lines and they were all one vowel sound. Barely a limerick.

>>18993559
Calm down, little guy. I just came here to get some advice, not to be the target of someone wanting to brag about how he can shit more than me in a poor attempt to reassure himself of his low self esteem.

>>18993699
>but novels died in the 1950s
Wait then what are we trying to write, novellas? Serialized garbage? A short story collection? A screenplay?

>have strange burst of motivation to write my book
>completely dies after a few days and can no longer push myself to do it

>>18993945
>Wait then what are we trying to write, novellas? Serialized garbage? A short story collection? A screenplay?
Short prose.

>>18994019
>For free: short prose; never read

>>18994188
The point of writing isn’t to be read or understood, though, surely?

>>18991355
>>18991361
I’ve heard of Unreal Bros before. Is this true?

>>18994279
Unreal Bros doesn't shill for F Gardner. They're just a discord group that reads, reviews, edits and publishes their own anthology. F Gardner is in all the lit related discords

>>18994275
Writing is communication made manifest upon the visual world. Communication requires a sender and a receiver.

I have the technical ability, I know what to do, I know what not to do. The problem is that I don't have a story to tell. What the fuck is wrong with me? Am I destined to be an editor?

>>18994371
You're just shit at writing.

>>18994381
thanks

>>18994279
Spoonfeed me on them

>>18994402
Just write a predictable story with one big twist. You'll learn by doing instead of waiting for the perfect idea and not being able to execute

>>18994371
Prove your competence. Write the dog alien story.

>>18994290
LGBT discord group

>>18994409
Basically another tranny discord server where all the people are on HRT or taking dicks in the ass.

Kshat's discord server is trash. He shills it on every board as its official discord then acts surprised when everyone hates it

>>18993945
Neo-literature

How can I write lyrics like this?

>Bodies
She was a girl from Birmingham
She just had an abortion
She was case of insanity
Her name was Pauline she lived in a tree
She was a no-one who killed her baby
She sent her letter from the country
She was an animal
She was a bloody disgrace

>>18994430
Not so. Unreal Bros are actually good.

>>18994474
Writing lyrics, at least for me and the musicians I know, generally takes playing and musing at the same time to get the proper poetic flow going. You can write verse all you want, but when you put it to chords, sometimes it's a syllable too long or extending one by singing might be the wrong thing to do.

How do I work with a protagonist whose backstory is too big and at the same time not so interesting (for the author) to fully introduce at once? Place breadcrumbs of its parts along with the story? Flashbacks? I figure some readers might get pissed if they don't know from head on the background of the mc since you typically don't start a building straight from the tenth floor.

>>18994502
I've never met someone I completely already know. And even when I talk to someone it takes great effort for them to open up and be vulnerable about their history. Generally you get bits and pieces from the way they act and from stories others tell about them.

>>18994491
I can take a wild guess and know they probably used to be in /crit/ threads until imploding. Sounds like it will happen again.

>>18994502
Who will care about a characters backstory before they care about the character first?

>>18994371
You need to whet your imagination. Philip K Dick likened writing to just a long series of Question and Answer sessions.
So start with a simple question that intrigues you. Make a big map of ideas and how they make you feel, with premises, twists and turns in your emotions, conclusions and all of that. Now you have elements that you can impose symbols onto and you have yourself a story. There is something unique that you feel and even if that compelling thing has been told before you can tell it in a way that no one else would.

Writer's block is also not an excuse to stop writing. Ask questions until you identify what is missing or why it bothers you. Just keep at it and be thorough with your revision and you will be better than most. Your first few stories will have lots of mistakes though, so don't worry about it. Even HG Wells "Time Machine" was incredibly bare bones for his first book but it's still worth a read because of what he said and how he did it.

>>18994518
>>18994527
I guess that's about it. My biggest fear is the reader thinking "hmm, how convenient that I just came to know that this had happened in the backstory now" and then presume that I, the hack writer, made up something on the spot just to fit in that arc. I'll have to make the mention of the past sound as natural as possible to minimize this effect in this case.

>>18994555
What if a dog had consciousness?
What if that dog discovered something?
What if that dog had to communicate it to someone?
What if he couldn't?
How would that dog deliver the information?
Do other animals have sentience?
Does the dog get a heist-movie team together?
Does that team learn that the military has been covering up aliens for years?
Does the team find a german shepard willing to help break into the military base?
Do the animals do that really cute thing where they crawl on the ground with their paws?
Do they get caught?
Do they have to break out?
Do the aliens help them escape?
Do they go back after they discover a cattle mutilation scene as they run back home?

>>18994587
Honestly, since someone already sold plenty of a series starting simply from the pun "Warlock Holmes," I'm sure anon can make a series based on dog vs aliens. No doubt in my mind.

>>18977373
anybody know anything about that flash fiction general that was posted back in march? what's up to anyone from there. I wanted to buy that book if it ever got made.

>>18994713
Try Molotov zine bruh…

Are ambient songs good to listen to while writing?

>>18994763
Why don't you just write?

>>18994713
Flash fiction is so short you only have time to explore a single plot thread. It's usually about going into a setting, exploring and leaving. Or it could be exploring an idea, how it came to be and its consequences. It's difficult to be about characters, but you can make a story about a character who changes dramatically after interacting with another character. You can also write a story about an event and explore that. Even in short stories, especially scifi, there's little emphasis on the characters. Theyre simply there so show us the events and ideas. Only in flash fiction you have even less time to get your point across.

>>18994813
thank you. I'm sorry though, I phrased my question poorly. I was just curious if anyone knew about flash general.

>>18994853
Not your fault. He didn’t read your question carefully with any comprehension.

>>18994874
>>18994853
Correct. I didn't read the question.

>>18994371
I used to be that way. What helped me was dipping my feet in the water slowly. I started by writing poems to explore what I could do with language, and to try to capture atmosphere without regard to plot. Then I moved into song lyrics, which have some story in them but can be more impressionistic in their handling of narratives. Now I’m working on plain old fiction writing, and it’s going pretty well. What I’m writing is definitely character-driven, but now I actually have characters and things for them to do, as well as broader ideas that I try to make an argument for in the work. I credit all this to gradually working my way up to what used to intimidate me (plot.)
Of course, all of this assumes that plot is your stumbling block too. If it isn’t, and you genuinely have nothing to say about anything, try life experience and self-reflection to find some idea that sparks a little passion.

I want to write a variety of horror short stories involving haunted houses. I've got a good narrating voice, so thinking of even making a little podcast.

I think I'm really strong at creating the houses themselves. Gruesome deaths and ghosts. I can wing why protags might venture into the houses. And even a solid framing device for tying all the stories together.

I don't know what to do about plots though. Thinking about just ripping off other stories and adapting, which maybe you can say for all stories of all time. Any advice?

>>18995641
Hear me out. What if the house was haunted by aliens and a dog accidentally wandered into it.

I initially wrote 2011 words today, I more than doubled it later to write a rooftop sex scene between a big booby Greco-Jap and a literal bug man.

>>18995658
Well I legit got one story of a house haunted by flying saucers. If a dog wandered in it would just gtfo. Dogs aren't stupid like humans.

>>18995707
what if the aliens wanted to play catch with the dog

>>18995641
Start with writing a single scene, from any point in your story then work your way backwards/forwards, piecing together how and why that scene took place, as well as whats produced from that situation.

My issue is that I've got some characters set, a basic plot outlined, yet the finer details to my story escape me. The story's set in a fictional version of England in the 1800s but I'm worried that I've lent too far into the "otherwordly" with my setting. I'm sure I'll sort it, I haven't started on a chapter yet so maybe I'll take my own advice. Godspeed anon.

Secret to writing a plot: picture something conventionally bad happening then just make it worse until there's a terrible/undesirable consequence. the themes are secondary to the story and characters are secondary to themes

>>18995716
There are no aliens.

>>18995770
Then who was dog?

>>18995877

Tom Hardy

>>18995740
Yeah I think I'll just have to dive into it and see what happens. I have a concern it's just going to turn into a sort of SCP sort of thing that's a catalog of spoopy stuff with little story.

>>18995929
Contradictory to what >>18995749 said, characters are the most important part of a story, second only to setting. Characters and people are the sum of their experience, which is ultimately derived from their environment. Nail the setting and you'll inevitably think up characters which fit that setting, it's what those characters do which forms the story. There is no story, no action nor thought, without characters acting acording to their experience in any given scenario, that's how you create a situation and along with it, a plot.

>>18995877
The alien, obviously.

>>18995929
>Tom Hardy
You're thinking of Venom.

>>18996114
Aliens are actually poisonous, not venomous. Common mistake though.

Please rate this exercise that I decided to redo. I'd like to think my writing has improved, and though it still isn't perfect, I feel like it's at least good now. Though not necessary at all, technical feedback, a numerical score out of ten, and recommendations for books to improve my writing are especially appreciated as they give me a clear path that I can follow and build upon for myself.

(I was going to write/edit more before posting this, but I can't find the time to do it the way I want. Might post a revision later like last time.)

>Describe a barn as seen by a man whose son has just been killed in a war. Do not mention the son, war, or death. Do not mention the man who does the seeing.

Cold afternoon breeze rustled the rows of maize crop. All grass underfoot had decayed into yellow and brown and some older patches even turned black. The crops parted twice, once horizontally, once diagonally, to form a dusty intersection.

In view of the steadily sinking sun and south of this intersection there stood a barn.

The planks on all four walls of the barn were riddled with termite damage and fractures of old age. Under the flaking red paint, cracks ran up to the ceiling and down to the floor - often doing both at once. From these growing structural failings leaked the smell of rotten meat.

Young cattle carcasses littered the room. Skid marks from hijacked tractors outlined the path of the grieving, resisting parents, lined with feathers and fur once used for warmth and pools of milk that wasted away among broken parts from stolen wheelbarrows. Barrels of feed were haphazardly cracked in two and the halves scattered across the ground held nothing in between.

Stable fences on either side were beaten down and broken and could not serve for protection or stability anymore. The insides were lined with dry hay, dry as ever, dry as the bodies on the floor, dry as the eyes of the men and women left behind in fear of bombs and repeated raids. Dryness was packed from wall to wall.

The support beams sported eerie green mould like the blackened outlier patches in the grass outside and rusted screws that bent and jutted out of their spots. Cold evening breeze swayed the barn from side to side and the beams creaked: growing mould glistened in the waning light, and the screw loosened further towards an inevitable collapse. The barn longed for its dependents.

The strips of light permitted by the scarce roof panels of the barn jailed the scene in the rays of dusk. The blinding prison bars of daylight burned away souls. Night would come to take the shells that remained.

>>18996451
Same thing picture form since anons seem to have no clear preference.

>>18996451
Same thing in picture form since anons seem to have no clear preference.

>>18996451
mm fuck my ass anon this prose is so visually stimulating. I can feel the narrator's pain and rage

>>18996483
Are you memeing or serious? I can never tell, sorry.

>>18996491
I'm serious I'm just a faggot anon. Your purpose is very descriptive with appropriate tone and rhythmic pauses to avoid repetition

>>18996507
Thanks my friend. I think this is the first time on here that the first reaction to my writing has been a positive one.

I personally feel like something is missing, particularly in the end, but I'm really glad you enjoyed it!

>>18996463
I perfer images to text dumps, cheers for both options though.

>>18996451
If we had exercises like this in the thread I might participate.

Is there any place to talk about writing and performing standup on 4chan?

>>18996562
you can talk about it here, I used to perform standup. College campuses aren't as unfriendly as you'd think, at least if the show is not for a general audience

>>18996562
Not so much the performance side, but you can post your stand up script or outline on /lit/

>>18996562
>Do a really funny read-along of Call of the Crocodile or some other meme book
>put it on YouTube
>profit

>>18996543
Amen. I'll try to do both options from now on.

>>18996552
For everyone? You'll find a lot in the first book in the OP.

>>18996577
How many nights a week would you do it?
>>18996578
I’m not trying to get my shit lifted bro

>>18994763
Take your inspiration from wherever you can.
Don’t ask for theipermio

>>18983768
You don’t have to work?

>>18996562
/co/ is the comic board.

>>18996593
Considering F Gardener owns the right to that that's probably not a good idea unless you want to get in legal trouble. He'd have to hire you to do something like that probably.

>>18996670
>I’m not trying to get my shit lifted bro
Right, well obviously don't post stuff that you plan on performing if that's your concern. Surely you have a bunch of material which you've written, you like, which reflects your style, but isn't up to performance standards or isn't as good as your other material which you plan on performing. If you want to discuss stand up, you need to give us an inkling as to what type of stand up that'd be, we'd need an insight into your style.

>>18996691
>theipermio
Sleep posting. *their permission

>>18996451
This is great. Can you break down how you crafted any of these sentences? Seems like there's lots of texture to the words, variety of structure and plenty of literary devices.

>>18996634
>For everyone?

Yeah I like it better if everybody's doing it can can critique it and compare.

>>18996705
House Hunters Gettysburg wouldn’t get much traction. “Okay, here’s the formal dining area, here’s the pool, and over there is the shed you can pile your amputated limbs behind.” I mean, every house in Gettysburg is guaranteed haunted, no questions asked. If you don’t wake up on the ceiling within 30 days, you get your deposit back. And let’s not even be skeptics, if the live action Scooby Doo movies have taught us nothing else as a society, it’s that ghosts are real. But I love the classic depiction of the ghost. Like, how did the first ghost die, a horrific accident at the bedsheet factory?

>>18996451
Neat. I'll try.

The dog ran around, jumping in piles of hay, sniffing interesting things, going inside and then outside. Sometimes I wish I was a dog. A dog doesn't know. A dog doesn't talk about it. A dog just gets sad. Lil' Lucy will get tired and slow down once she realizes what happened. She won't understand, but she'll know. She'll sleep in the barn like she used to. She'll trace the steps where the puppies were born, but these days it'll be a little slower. She won't notice the paint chip away on the barn doors. She won't notice the hinges slowly collecting rust. She won't notice the wood squeaking a little more high pitch these days. She'll see that the horses get a little less attention and the hay bales get a little more messy. She'll still hide her toys in the back, like when she was a puppy, and sometimes she'll lose them. But Lil' Lucy will still spend her time there, on watch. Like a good dog, waiting for the aliens to come back again, like when she was a puppy.

>>18996705
>>18996831
This is me. If I could claim one comic as an inspiration or a archetype for me to follow it would be Seinfeld. That is the delivery vibe and content I aim for.

>*Record scratch*
>*Freeze frame*
>Yup, that's me. You're probably wondering how I got into this situation…

>my intro to a grounded cyberpunk set in the asiatic future of Australia
The tangle of his greymatter gleams with a thin red varnish of blood - shattered skull exposes the organ once forbidden to experience the light of day. An ethereal matrix of pink interwoven with veins of red, black, green and blue; the chorded tendrils of his brain implants. He’s dead. Probably for hours now. Found half-floating in the ebbing tides of the lower anchorage of Taipan Metropolitan Zone, his body now greyish green and soggy from long exposure to the poisoned sea. The broken dome of his ecological suit now repurposed as a fishbowl; several aquatic creatures nestle in the sand that sediments in the grooves and caverns inside, slowly losing its salinity to the slow drizzle of rain. Death, like a ballet teacher, locks his body in a contortionist’s pose, twisting and jagged like the dead tree branches he was found amongst; floating, drifting. The suit itself, once a life-sustaining protective shield, has become his coffin. Flashing red lights illuminate the harbour; the alarming colour shimmers on the broad walls of the submerged skyscrapers that line the coast. A gridded tangle of platforms and pontoons suspended inside the bay is denoted by the floating slum - The Web. Like a pile of deluge and driftwood after a storm, the dynamic colony of corrugated iron is interjected by several organic channels of free water for boats to enter and leave. Yellowed fibreglass hulls, aluminium dinghies and tinnies patinated to a dull grey, blue barrels tied with blue nylon rope and green eyes watching from behind every shadowed hole and tear in its walls. Its malevolent presence wraps its neon tentacles up the skyscrapers to hold its body of scum tight against the city’s barrier, sinking its teeth deep, all to guard the head of its growth - a large shipping vessel used as the foundation for the white-painted containers fitted as housing columns above. A Kowloonish floating mega-village that grows as more people escape the crime, costs and struggle; as more people find escape from the city.
>what do you think?

Hello again everyone, as OP I would like to give you a last bit of encouragement.

I found pdfs for every link in the prose section. I am going to bed soon but I would like to ask the next OP to please include this link. If not, someone post it in the next thread. Thanks

https://pastebin.com/i4RLYJEx

>>18996904
Is this a pre-existing meme that I didn't know about and I just stumbled into?

>>18996951
I think it totally overwrought, I think there's a lot of extraneous words. How about:

>He’s dead. Probably for hours now. The tangle of greymatter gleams with a thin red varnish of blood, the organ exposed by the shattered skull. A matrix of pink interwoven with veins of red, black, green and blue; the chorded tendrils of his brain implants. His body, greyish green bloated and soggy from long exposure to the poisoned sea, found in the ebbing tides of the lower anchorage of Taipan Metropolitan Zone. The broken dome of his eco suit repurposed as a fishbowl, with several crustaceans nestling in the grooves and caverns. The slow drizzle of rain dances on the body, locked in a contortionist’s pose. Just another dead tree branch. Flashing red lights illuminate the harbour; the alarming colour shimmers on the broad walls of the skyscrapers that line the coast. A gridded tangle of platforms and pontoons suspended inside the bay is denoted by the floating slum - The Web.The corrugated iron colony is interspersed by several channels of free water for boats to enter and leave. A Kowloonish floating mega-village that grows as more people escape the crime, costs and struggle of the city.

As far as the description of the ships/shipping vessel, add that in later. You have more than enough scene setting, you need to get to some dialogue and people doing something.

I checked an old flash drive I had tucked away looking for Mad Thad's court case but instead found a whole host of insane shit even by my own personal standards. Like what appeared to be the beginning of a book from what seemed like back in High School
>Three pages of text in various fonts
>Italicized for quotes
>No intelligible sentence structure
>Grammar thrown to the wolves
But that aside, I'm curious about what you guys think on where it was going.
>Main character seems to be almost exclusively monologuing
>Story takes place in 2045
>"Media Intelligence Security Bill" signed in 2029 to ensure no "harmful information" was spread
>"Cyber Security Bill" allowed the stringent monitoring of all data as the fear of domestic terrorism grew
>"International Security Treaty" in 2034 removed the privatized internet from people's everyday lives to ensure international peace
>Together this essentially isolated the country from the world
>Takes place some decade later as trust between people, their neighbors, their families, and essentially their schools are at an all time low
And from what else I can gather from this cryptic document, the main character is obsessed with Truth, constantly prattling on to an almost neurotic level about lies, deception, and its ilk being evil. It also seems he's having prophetic like talks with someone from the future, but again this is likely his neurosis or perhaps I was just neurotic at the time of writing about it (circa 2012, I believe).
Everything is cryptically vague, vaguely insane, or insanely cryptic. For example,
>"How many times can one think a thought before that thought because an Idea? One can think a thought as much as one wants, as long as they do not live by the thought..."
Which aside from sounding like someone huffing spraypaint just before trying to pass a high school philosophy test, seems to have been hinting at something more sinister like mental suppression. But fuck, IDK. r8 n h8 me m80

>>18996691
>>18996709
Fuck off you trannie bitch.

>>18997093
thanks anon, was thinking the same thing. i'm trying to be subtle with exposition everywhere else but wasn't sure if the audience needed a 'setting the scene' at the start.

>>18997075
Woof? Woof woof. Bark.

>>18996451
>>18996463
Bumping these for the metaphorical/imagery side of things, also for more criticism.

>>18996755
Thanks! I'm going to bed, but I'll try tomorrow. Although, and I know this isn't a good response at all, I'm not sure I can explain it all in terms of a formula. I'll try, but the most I can probably do is editing decisions and explaining the thought process.

Feel free to pick out a few sentences you like so that I don't miss out on the ones that grabbed you.

>>18996839
I know this is a meme, but if you're looking for actual advice: the passage is good but the 'she' repetition seems excessive and unnecessary. You generally want to repeat the words that'll convey a theme or message. The repetition of 'dog' works better.

/wg/, would it be weird if the first book in my series ended with the MC showing he hasn't learned his lesson yet?

>>18997280
So long as there's some other actual resolution elsewhere in the storys end to substitute it, I guess.

>>18997274
>the 'she' repetition seems excessive and unnecessary.
Y’know I would have caught that if I had reread it. Thanks anon. Got trapped in the meme moment.

I have reached the conclusion that I don't like reading fiction
I'll just switch to screenwriting I guess uWu

>>18997704
If you don't like reading prose then you'll hate reading screenplays. The formatting is much more inconvenient

>>18997704
I hate reading philosophy, theory, literary criticism, and any other “intellectual” shit but short prose, novels, plays, and poetry are fucking kino. I can’t understand your mindset and must therefore ridicule you as an inferior subhuman.

>>18997713
I like films tho

How do I write poems this based et rougepilled?

>>18993842
There is absolutely zero bragging involved in pointing out that 4th graders around the world write circles around a grown man. All I feel for you is immense pity.

>>18998036
Let not the word count detract from the weightiness of its contents.

I am turning into a mushroom.
It’s nothing to be concerned about really, only a natural process.
I don’t know when I first noticed it, it has a way of growing in a man.
I can feel it in me.
The fine silvery hairlike roots reach all throughout my body.
I have begun to feel a pressure behind my eyes.
I move slowly now, like a man submerged under deep water, wading along the ocean floor.
It pulls on me.
Not against me, or in any direction at all, but it pulls.
I am turning into a mushroom.

>>18998109

>>18997274
Here are two I thought were good. I like this exercise you did, it's nice to hide parts of the story but still share the emotion. I like to have subtle cues sometimes but overwhelming emotion is powerful too; it's still an interesting read because I'd like to know exactly why the POV character focuses on the things that he does.
>Barrels of feed were haphazardly cracked in two and the halves scattered across the ground held nothing in between.
>The support beams sported eerie green mould like the blackened outlier patches in the grass outside and rusted screws that bent and jutted out of their spots

>>18997719
This. I work in the sciences and words are measured like math in academics and it gets repetitious. Especially in literary criticism and philosophy the diction just oozes with pretentious contempt that could better be expressed by a more clear expression like "fuck off retard."
While philosophy has it's purpose, in fiction you get to take advantageous of the inherent vagueness of words and pack layers of purpose with each thing you see. Makes for more stimulating reads in my opinion.

>>18977628
A poorly crafted sentence.
>I never ask for criticism, to keep my work and ideas pure.

You need an editor and some rhythm.

My first short story has been accepted for publication! I thought it'd never happen. Keep going anons.

>>18998317
how do you find people to submit manuscripts to?

>>18998368
Find out the best online & print literary journals in your country. Ideally they'd be ones you enjoy reading yourself. Each one has a submissions page stipulating word count etc. Your manuscript should be properly formatted with correct font, size, spacing, margins, indentation etc, you can find industry standard guides online. Then just submit, most places accept through a Submittable account.

>>18998391
could i have a sample of your writing to compare to mine?

>>18998391
Thank you for the advice.
I'm based in Canada and I've been writing for a while, haven't submitted anything since grade-school though.

>>18998427
Oxford was cold and dim. The sun was shrouded behind a thinnish cloud layer, and in every direction the sky was cast the grey-white pallor of skimmed milk. A mist hung low over the waters of the Isis and the Cherwell; it lingered and curled about the cupolas and cobbled streets, the spires, the ancient archways and the barren branches of the trees. In the distance, the boundary between earth and sky was muddled, and upon leaving the car it soon became impossible to tell mist from sky, sky from mist, with each seeming to seep and meld into the other. The overall effect was strangely disquieting, as though they had been caught up in someone else’s memory of Oxford, nebulous and indistinct; and by the time they entered Christ Church Meadow the four of them had drawn together more closely than usual, each fearing, perhaps, that the others might pull ahead, and abandon them for all time to that bleary, pale void.

>>18998430
Search for Erika Krouse 500 Litmags, it's a start

>>18996904
This is such a stupid meme why's it making me laugh

>>18998622
Humour is about expectations and timing, some anons just have a knack for finding what’s absurd about life.

>>18998036
I could write any number of essays I want to. Since the most relevant thing that comes up in your mind regarding general text are "Grade school essays", this writing you're so accustomed to doesn't involve any thoughts to prose, story, or pacing besides articulating the structure of the text and argumentation. You're so desperate to pick a fight with someone on the internet just so you can take out your frustrations that your asinine comparisons fall flat to any lurker reading these posts.

>>18998866
Hit the nail on the head.

>>18998481
your writing is very description but also leaves much to the imagination. Thank you. Could you critique mine?

As they made their way down the back streets adjacent to the market, upon the outskirts of the city, Lord Casper watched from behind the panicked movements of the poor woman, imagining the paleness of her legs hidden beneath her woolen gown - these lustrous thoughts brought on by the sight of the woman on the floor crying, and furthered by the noise her thighs maid against the scratchy material of their sewn walls.
“Now,” Lord Casper began, “since you claim that you cannot repay the debt in monetary terms, maybe I can accept another form of payment.” And then, his blood becoming suddenly hot, slipped his hand underneath the collar of his doublet - an expensive shirt made up of an inner lining of linen and an outer layer of heavy silk - and slowly pulled a fine rubied necklace over his fat, grey head. The fat man moved forward towards the peasants with a savage and lustrous look, commonly experienced by the young girls employed in taverns.

>>18994853
i got some of mine in there. the last thread that i know of was for the second anthology.

>>18984416

>>18996451
>>18996463
you need to pay attention to how you structure your sentences. for example
>In view of the steadily sinking sun and south of this intersection there stood a barn.
is better written as
>South of this intersection, before the steadily sinking sun, stood a barn.
in addition to sentences being overly long (even by just a bit) which make you sound like listing and killing any emotion,
>once horizontally, once diagonally
>>horizontally then diagonally

>cracks ran up to the ceiling and down to the floor - often doing both at once.
>>cracks ran up and down.

...the problem here seems to be too much detail, and delivered in a technical, rather than narrative manner
>termite damage
>structural failings
see what i mean? why not:
>The wooden walls were fractured by termites and time.
not the best example, but it evokes more feeling.

not sure what was even going on with the "hijacked tractors". your story sways between being too in-your-face about the war shit (grieving parents, etc.) to being absolutely vague about what you're trying to say.

in other words, you still need to work on your description. however i also think the prompt is kinda dumb. write something else.

i do kinda like this part
>and the screw loosened further towards an inevitable collapse.

very few is posting their writing so let me post mine.
539 words. tell me what kind of character the narrator comes across as to you.
also looking for general feedback.

https://pastebin.com/j1QXWXrn

>>18998317
congrats, anon. first of many i'm sure.

Does anyone else sketch out scenes from their story for inspiration?

>>18999566
I would share but there's a lot of style and word choice I dont mess with until I've nailed the story elements down, so it's mostly just the events now. I'm maybe 2 months away from sending the novel manuscript to alpha readers and start working on another project. Maybe I can share sections with /wg/ then.

>>18977628
It's not like I can understand the criticism, so I ignore its existence entirely when I write English.
t. esl

>>18999620
I made crude sketches of monsters to help visualize what I wanted in the story.

would it be a better idea to have a separate thread for writing exercises or should they be included in wg? It seems like most people are here to ask for critique or advice

>>19001107
These threads are slow enough to include them.

>>19001219
>>19001107
Any splinter of /wg/ has perished and been reunified back into the fold. /lit/ isn't as slow as it used to be and keeping one thread afloat in a sea of pepes is easier than multiple threads.

>>19001107
I remember the golden age of /wg/ it seems like months ago. How /wg/ has fallen

When plastered billboards scream with slogans
'fight for your country, go to battle'
When media's print assults your senses,
'Support our leaders' shrieks and rattles...
And fools who don't know any better
Believe the old, eternal lie
That we must march and shoot and kill
Murder, and burn, and bomb, and grill...

When press begins the battle-cry
That nation needs to unify
And for your country you must die...
Dear brainwashed friend, my neighbor dear
Brother from this, or other nation
Know that the cries of anger, fear,
Are nothing but manipulation
by fat-cats, kings who covet riches,
And feed off your sweat and blood - the leeches!
When call to arms engulfs the land
It means that somewhere oil was found,
Shooting 'blackgold' from underground!
It means they found a sneaky way
To make more money, grab more gold
But this is not what you are told!

Don't spill your blood for bucks or oil
Break, burn your rifle, shout: 'NO DEAL!'
Let the rich scoundrels, kings, and bankers
Send their own children to get killed!
May your loud voice be amplified
By roar of other common men
The battle-weary of all nations:
WE WON'T BE CONNED TO WAR AGAIN!

>>19001374
Fuck off this isn't write what's on your mind.

>>18981414
I don't think hand/finger size and shape really comes into it that much, might help a little when starting out but that's all.
I've got average hands and can play guitar, my brother has way bigger/fatter hands and can strum chords just as good as me, and I've seen literal children effectively play guitar as good as any adult and small asian women who play the piano masterfully

>write a prologue about a guy that suffers from chronic pain and how he can't go outside.
>every time I write about his character and relationships it comes off as forced.
>inconsistency galore.
>very chaotic characterization
>when he remarks about something, it feels like a totally different character due to his word choice.

I know I'm doing something wrong. For the life of me, I can't keep consistency for anything with this character, One minute it seems like he's scared all the time, the other - a witty asshole and next second a robot that cares more about talking about his pain! Genuinely it pisses me off.

>>19001385
Django Reinhardt pushed the medium of guitar, and the dude had like three fingers.

>>18998866
Your rambling about the enormous depth of your brainwork rings kinda hollow when you, by your own admission. can't actually even get a shopping list's worth of words on the page. That post alone is like half of your daily quota, was it time well-spent?

>>19001402
Just make him a legit schizo

>>18977628
>I never ask others for criticism to keep my work and ideas pure and undiluted from anyone else's perspective

To keep my ideas pure and undiluted from anyone else's perspective, I never ask others for criticism.

>>19001384
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w5hsZBIMIl0

>>19001402
Chronic pain can make people jump like that. On a good day they can be who they were before the pain. Kind, caring, smart, witty. But when the pain starts and the meds don't work all those emotions flip. They become hateful, tormenting assholes. Have you ever had a toothache that lasted days before you could get a root canal done? It's like that but every day all over. The desperation of crushing up aleve into the little tooth hole, the constant ice packs, punching themselves in other places to make the pain go away, constantly drinking water, not eating anything for days at a time. All because of a stupid tooth ache. But as soon as they drill into the sucker it's like a completely different person.

I think the key to the characterization you are going for is to make the threshold of pain and it's medication a key part of why they are so sporadic.

Migrate
>>19002106
>>19002106
>>19002106

>>19002113
Making early threads now?

I understood the point of this book but I still didn't like it. Maybe I'm more of a Hemingway type of reader

>>18997116
It sounds interesting. Give the protagonist a habit of huffing spray paint to preserve some of the original insanity and you might really have something.

>>18999512
>you need to pay attention to how you structure your sentences
Understood. Also, and I don't mean this as a cop-out, most of the sentences you highlighted were last minute additions and revisions.

>not sure what was even going on with the "hijacked tractors". your story sways between being too in-your-face about the war shit (grieving parents, etc.) to being absolutely vague about what you're trying to say.
Thank you. This isn't quite what I was looking for but it's pretty close to the problem I was feeling. There's a lack of focus.

>write something else
I'm doing these exercises so that I'm confident enough. Once I'm a consistent 7/10 or 8/10 as far as technical abilities go, I'll reduce the number of exercises and increase the stuff I actually want to write.

I'll post an edit later.

>>18998254
Unfortunately, there isn't much I can say about either sentence (or the paragraph as a whole.) I thought about common objects in the barn, how time or war might damage them, then I tried to connect them to the theme of a dead son. So:

>>Barrels of feed
>>Barrels of feed were broken
>>Barrels of feed were haphazardly cracked in two and the halves scattered across the ground held nothing in between.

Object, state, thematic elements. Similarly:

>>The support beams sported eerie green mould like the blackened outlier patches in the grass outside and rusted screws that bent and jutted out of their spots
>>The support beams were moulded and rusty
>>The support beams sported eerie green mould and rusted screws that bent and jutted out of their spots

Except here I connected it back to an earlier statement and added:

>>The support beams sported eerie green mould like the blackened outlier patches in the grass outside and rusted screws that bent and jutted out of their spots

Posting to kill the thread