/lit/ - Literature

If a modern epic had to be written about current year it would probably take place in the Middle-East tbqh

Not to endorse the Taliban but their struggle against American troops would is the kind of thing that could be spun into a great Islamic epic poem.

it'd be about the cold war

>>18989353
Only when we are reduced to homeless rebels fighting against forces beyond our power and comprehension will there be anything worth writing about. Exploits of brave fugitives, heroic deaths and the like. The only problem then will be if there will be anyone fit to read them.

Hopefully, the question will not be that; hopefully, it will be if there will be anyone fit to read them without tearing up.

>>18989353
I don’t think you can write a modern epic, but it’s been tried before.

>>18989362
>Not to endorse the Taliban but their struggle against American troops would is the kind of thing that could be spun into a great Islamic epic poem.
That's it, anon. We should write a 4chan Taliban Epic. IT'S TIME!
Think about it, a great deal of people here hate modernity so this is fitting.
Also, the repulsive nature of the subject to the ocidentals would keep the normies away which is great.
That said, help me sketch the plot.

>>18989362
This is easily the best option for an epic in regards to the beautiful landscape, the historical significance, and the length of the conflict. I mean, it took twice as long as the Trojan War. And that's not to mention the whole david/goliath scale of the conflict but there's only one thing about this, it's set in a time and place where everyone involved is documented and every battle with every detail would hardly be romanticized without someone mentioning how inaccurate it is. This is why it's something that has, or is best, about a conflict long ago, with less detail on the characters and their acts, so it could be easily mixed with mythos.
>>18989369
The cold war was hardly epic, and it would be dificult to tell a tale from the soviet perspective when they fought so little conflicts.
>>18989379
Why? Many epics were written in times of peace, and often by men of great wealth.

>>18989353
It would be centered on the 2000 presidential election (or maybe 2016)

>>18989395
"Only" was hyperbole, anon

(me being >>18989379)

But the real question here is what language will be used. Will we use military terminology? Modern warfare is not so mythical as that of antiquity, and is harder, but not impossible, to metaphorize without sounding tacky. I suppose we will also have to write characters such as Dubya very movingly and poetically, something unbecoming to their real personalities. But there's always an element of stretching the truth to epics, no?

>>18989383
>I don’t think you can write a modern epic
What do you mean?
>It's been tried before
Example?

It would take place in Chicago in the 1980’s

>>18989421
>But the real question here is what language will be used.
English. The language of the enemy, of course.

>>18989353
Napoleon I suppose?

>>18989389

One guy on /lit/ already wrote a shakesperean tragedy based on the Taliban

>>18989410
You're going to need one good reason to justify such a terrible choice.
>>18989421
>what language will be used
I could only imagine English, it is such an influential language.
>Will we use military terminology?
I think the best way to describe the actual encounters in a story is by having weapons be used more symbolically and their use described with metaphors rather than explaining how it works. Using Homeric Cycles, etc. Here is an example from something i once wrote describing an encounter with firearms:

The volley from Pilgrim’s rifle now barked
A burst of fury into the Brute’s warped,
Bruised, and mangled excuse for a figure,
His chest unfurled just as does a flower
When nectar beckons bumblebees with such
Beauty, so too then did the putrid sludge
That seeped from the Brute’s many small craters
Beckon the pests within who so laboured
To reveal themselves and seek a new host.

>>18989453
This is a great choice because the masses of men, the maneuvers, and the strong personality of the field marshals involved in those wars (especially under Napoleon's command) make for great visual spectacles.

>>18989459
>One guy on /lit/ already wrote a shakesperean tragedy based on the Taliban
Is the brazillian dramaturge?
Also, when?
Do you have any link?

>>18989470
American politics has way more bearing on modern history than any war since wwii

>>18989471

I don’t know where the guy was from.

I will need to search Warosu. One minute.

>>18989470
>>18989449
My friends, by language, I meant diction, not the substrate.

I don't know why, but your stanza brought to mind a possible metaphor for, say, blowing an armored personnel carrier open with an RPG. Like chlorophyll-shot bumblebees crawling out of their blossoming petal prison.

>>18989479
That doesn't mean it makes for a great story...
Nor does it mean that post-capitalist people reading that in the future would care about a neoliberal election.

>>18989471

Found it. It was reposted some days ago:

>>/lit/thread/S18864226#p18865358

The guy writes in Portuguese, but I don’t know if he’s from Brazil.

>>18989362
middle east and parts of america. shit it would be global. that's the world we live in now whether we like it or not

>>18989489
Why would anyone care about some brushfire war between drones and goatfuckers?

>>18989470
>>18989479
>American politics has way more bearing on modern history than any war since wwii
This. Also, we have to be "in the moment", anons. There are a lot of good reasons why the Taliban's story could resonate in a place like this instead of something like Napoleon.
The anons already have a good "feel" of why we'd be doing the things we'd do in the poem.

>>18989503
Why would anyone care about a war over a woman between some pirates and urbanites?

>>18989489
Both those elections were extremely melodramatic, if it had been scripted you would have said it was over the top and unbelievable
Also wtf is a “neoliberal” election

>>18989488
And by modern warfare language, I was referring to words or acronyms like "Phalanx CIWS" or "C-130J." How do we "poeticize" such language beyond not even using it?

>>18989534
Something that bothers me much more by now is, what kind of "mythological frame" we would use?
Greeks gods messing up stuff?
The Capital "becoming aware of itself"?
Kek

What would make for better contemporary poetry?

>>18989503
>Why would anyone care about some brushfire war between drones and goatfuckers?
Because it symbolizes the fight against modenity and globalization.
So, MANY anon might actually care.

>>18989500
>middle east and parts of america. shit it would be global. that's the world we live in now whether we like it or not
I like the way you think.

>>18989551
>symbolizes the fight against modenity and globalization.
Lmao

>>18989488
>I meant diction, not the substrate
Sorry, friend. I misunderstood.

And by diction I have personally tried so many and felt that the pentametre is the best length, in regards to the structure of stanzas putting too much thought into it makes it so difficult to keep going, to keep the metre and subject flowing.
>>18989503
Imagine the potential for the symbolism, angels, Gomorrah, the Taliban represented as hunters, as vermin, hiding from a great, omnipresent enemy.
>>18989512
>wtf is a “neoliberal” election
An election taking place in a neoliberal country, easily the most boring thing in the world.
>>18989534
In regards to that I say absolutely no name dropping on any specific tech, a tank is a tank, an aircraft is an aircraft, a rifle is a rifle. You can write them as being great lumbering beasts, as eagles, as spears (bayonet).

>>18989555
>Lmao
Refute me, bitch. Otherwise, shut up.

>>18989544
WHINGING
sing Karen of the Trotskites and the impotence of liberal Marxism in its disorganisation
Praxis brought low by its denial in contrary disorganisation for its own sake
Of the epic battle twixt Leon and his own followers, of his own followers and their own followers
Of fourth internationals to the power of four contending for intellectual leadership of a movement non existent

>>18989556
>a neoliberal country
Haha well wtf is that then

>>18989561
>taliban does all their PR on twitter

>>18989423
>What do you mean?
I mean that I don’t think you can write a contemporary epic. I mean, you can try. But it’s not going to be an epic in the way other epics we’re epics.
> Example
Ulysses

I think the middle east would be a great setting because an epic poem set in america or some other industrialized country would be soulless, there would be no mythical aspect to it, americans and western peopel in general do not believe in god as fervently as the muslims.

>>18989562
Good, I like the tone but NOT the theme. Shitting on commies is beating a dead dog. The world is the way it is now because of the megacorporations or something like that, NOT because of them. Read uncle Ted.

>>18989577
Muslims don’t believe in God though, they unironically are worshipping either the antichrist or satan

>>18989568
>ITT: The crypto-jew

>>18989563
Oh, I assumed you knew what that means, it's the type of economic system in which we live as opposed to others like Communism. Its defined traits are, but not always, Conservatism, Capitalism, laissez-faire policies, Imperialism, etc. This extends to the Democrats in the United States who are otherwise progressive compared to Conservative neoliberals.
>>18989589
This is the most incredibly retarded thing I have ever read, I could only assume you unironically watch Alex Jones and think QAnon is real.

>>18989596
>Its defined traits are anything in the entire political spectrum

>>18989577
Yeah but another first worlder fetishizing the totally cultural and mystical third world for literature would be so soulful, right? It would be like heckin’ Aladdin even though they also have cars now.

>>18989556
>You can write them as being great lumbering beasts, as eagles, as spears (bayonet).
Jesus christ

>>18989556
>Imagine the potential for the symbolism, angels, Gomorrah, the Taliban represented as hunters, as vermin, hiding from a great, omnipresent enemy.
Also, we could put some djin messing up stuff. It might be cool. Kek

>>18989603
If you think the Democrat and Conservative party of the United States are "the whole spectrum" you are not politically literate enough to have an opinion.
>>18989609
What is wrong with that?
>>18989610
Absolutely. Djin, references to Mohammed's battles, like that first one i forgot its name, etc. Even more local mythology from that region could be used such as those from the Book of Kings (Ferdowsi).

>>18989551
>Because it symbolizes the fight against modenity and globalization.

KALA KHAN: Our knowledge may be limited,
But at least it is pure, clear and healthy.
We live well alone, leave us with our
Small candle, our modest lamp
And remain alone with the blinding splendor
Of your bombs and rockets, your suns of darkness,
Your light which, illuminating the world, makes it even bleaker.
The eloquence of your civilization
It is the refined tie-knot that enlace
The neck of a barbarian, the gloves that surround
The hands of a murderer, the talc that incenses a bear,
A princess with cold eyes, with steel-colored eyes,
Perfumed with gunpowder, with uranium breath.
Just like the prostitute who muddles her face
With so much makeup that a digger
Could mire in the ink, which suffocates
Her natural grace, so also your idols,
With their inventions, pollute nature.
In their metropolises artificial lights
Have hypnotize the night with fictitious candor
And the stars, banished, dissolved themselves in mourning:
What was left for night sky is an opaque melanoma.
The vampirism of their bureaucratic minds
Have sucked all the poetry from the marrow of life.
In the sun they only see an obese spotlight,
On the moon a dry tablet of aspirin,
The eggs they eat have for their yolk the poisonous
Broth of batteries, their breads are modeled
With microchip grains, with electronic flour.
Their milk is gasoline, their olive-oil diesel;
Their souls are so toxic and empty
As the spray of an insecticide can.
Their weapons, their rockets, their bombs, their tanks,
Their warships and warplanes, all of them
They are signs that make up the bitter confession
In which humanity admits its failure:
Your civilization is like a very thin and rosy
Foam that floats in a glass of wine,
A sugary veil of smiling order
Sitting upon a deep ocean of blood.
You and your race of wise men think that you will come
As heroes to our village of Orzala, but you come
Infected by the smallpox of science
That, outside these walls, outside this oasis,
Covers the entire world with sores. You and your plague
Are not welcomed here.

>>18989609
>>18989556
>In regards to that I say absolutely no name dropping on any specific tech, a tank is a tank, an aircraft is an aircraft, a rifle is a rifle.
I actually like the way anon thinks here, in general. I don't feel the need to namedrop tech that gets obsolete faster than we write the poem. Some stuff must be more clearly expressed though, I think.
Stuff like drones and shit are "game-changing" in the psychological aspects of war and can be used as propellers to reflections on the nature of courage and honor on contemporary conflicts.
Junger-fags might dig a lot of this shit, I suppose.

>>18989629
>i only want to hear about countries that are not communist or capitalist, and that are not conservative or liberal
Ok retard. Just admit you misused the word “neoliberal” in the first place. You just wanted to make a vague fling at amerimutts

>>18989606
Virgin:
>NOOOOOOOO you can't just put middle eastern mythology into a modern setting!!!!
>>18989610
Chad:
>put some djin messing up stuff. It might be cool. Kek

>>18989678
>some djin messing up stuff
Magic is for children

>>18989651
Here's another example of what can be done, one could use a system of codewords for weapons and types of equipment similar to that from skaldic poetry, using kennings and nice ways to describe what is happening.
>>18989661
I never said Communism was a neoliberal ideology, reread the thread before you post.

>>18989353
>In what era
Why would a “modern epic” take place in a different era? It sounds like you just want fantasy without the stigma of fantasy

>>18989353
The Taliban-American conflict is good epic material because its technological disparity leaves room for supernatural allusions. Another would be something around WW2 for its apocalyptic proportions, single battles involving hundreds of thousands of men, millions being organized at once. The difficulty of professional armies is that soldiers being cycled out/going on leave would upset the tension of the story, imagine if in the Illiad that Achilles went on leave every few months. Regardless, a figure like Leon Degrelle who travelled far from home could easily have an epic written of them. People from a smaller land fighting a larger power, or joining a fight between two large powers seems like a must.

>>18989551
>Because it symbolizes the fight against modenity and globalization.
Please elaborate because because I think it could be hilarious

>>18989637
Oh boy, finally some anon contemporary poetry that I can resonate with.
You're doing God's work, man.
I'm looking forward to it.
It's been some thing since I got excited with some original content from here, but I'm already "feeling" it, anon, you know?

Let's keep it up!

Epics are usually made by people who are within or close to an aristocratic/warrior heroic tradition. None of us have that. The sort of people interested in literature today are not suited for it either.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2o8sDt4_3qY

>>18989556
I propose that we get anons on board (if we decide to combine our godly powers and create an epic) that are muslims and who can add true color to the Taliban.

>>18989577
The Illiad presented both the Trojan and Achaean camps, we can present both sides within this poem. We just need to select the right historical figures, or fabricate them (if needed).

>>18989609
It can be done, but his examples were off-the-cuff, so imperfect. We don't want to enter into caveman-describing-technology territory- "the metal eagle (bomber) birthed its Luciferic young in haste, great rocks bear down rivers of dust with ores of Azazel (APC carrying soldiers- Azazel taught man metallurgy in the context of warcraft, so the soldiers are teachers of strife)). Or we do not want to speak like this too often; what I say is we try, and we see what comes out, and we judge afterwards when everything is viewed in ensemble, and in its greatest effect.

Someone ought to start a google doc- not I, I don't have the time to oversee such an undertaking.

>>18989710
>because I think it could be hilarious
Nah, it would be EPIC.

>>18989698
>The Iliad
>Romance of the Three Kingdoms
>Tale of the Heike
>Book of Kings
All of these and others were written from a hundred to a thousand years after the events occurred, if at all.
>>18989709
>Another would be something around WW2 for its apocalyptic proportions
This is one that I like and even tried once, but the amount of knowledge on the events needs to be much greater lest the fury of military historians be startled. I tried writing an abstract epic on the Battle of Monte Cassino but I felt like i didn't know enough about the battle to write about it.
>>18989721
What if the modern working class appropriates the aristocracy's form of literature and their heroes for our own cause? The modern epic could be one not of the heroes and the leaders of the battles but of the men fighting them, of the lack of gods and muses and of the wish to be like they are.
>>18989729
>I propose that we get anons on board
I absolutely would but my metre is nothing compared to this anon >>18989637 who, with so few lines put my hundreds to shame.

>>18989717
*time

>>18989721
>Epics are usually made by people who are within or close to an aristocratic/warrior heroic tradition.
Don't you know that NEETS are the modern age aristocratics?
You're off te hook, anon.

>>18989534
>>18989556
>>18989609
>>18989651
>>18989689
Military equipment usually has nicknames and whatnot soldiers use too. Lore associated with them as well. The poetic set of synonyms already exists but none of you are soldiers equipped to this tradition.

>>18989749
I absolutely would but my metre is nothing compared to this anon >>18989637 who, with so few lines put my hundreds to shame.

Don't have such a low opinion of yourself, learn from what he did and try to imitate at first. Then, you will learn to write like him by instinct, not by imitation. We have sleeping giants here, all we have to do is bring them together for another, great project. After all, I keep seeing these threads about how "the epic is dead" and "can an epic still be written in these modern times?"
The only issue is that we are neither Taliban nor soldiers, not to my knowledge. We at least need some historically-minded and some muslim anons, and we can fill in the rest.

>>18989778
Time to browse military forums

>>18989778
Who cares, we won't be calling weapons the names jarheads call their favourite gun, symbolic names and references are preferable to sounding like a blue-lives-matter thumb-looking dude. Using words that are references to older works, especially epics.
>>18989785
>>18989785
ty fren, and i don't know if an epic is the best choice for a collective effort or if, instead, a collection of shorter stories (perhaps all linked) are written together. This is due to people's different metres and styles.

>>18989830
We can have different entries in their own styles-some more realistic and visceral, others more abstract and metaphoric, or at maximum permissibility, a collection of short stories, poems, mini-plays, and the like. We will need editors to harrow the writings as well

But someone with the means first needs to step up and make a doc so we can all band together

>>18989729
>>18989785
But what will be the name of the project? Also, i doubt anons will be able to hold a story together, specially a poem that requires consistency and a basic storyline. I think a collection of poems made by /lit/ would be best. I think Parnassus would be a cool name, a nice reference.

>>18989749
>I absolutely would but my metre is nothing compared to this anon >>18989637 # who, with so few lines put my hundreds to shame.
I mean, anon here is good and deserves all the praise because I think if we could make something in the same spirit only lenghtier we would be pretty well-off as a project.
That said, I think this epic might be a somewhat collective opus designed, written and edited by anon and I plan on giving my own contributions too (even if lesser in quality and extension).
I think if we keep the spirit (this is absolutely paramount) and a general idea of the plot and themes we might go far and do something cool.

>>18989637
This is the kinda shit I come to 4chan for

>>18989830
>Who cares, we won't be calling weapons the names jarheads call their favourite gun, symbolic names and references are preferable to sounding like a blue-lives-matter thumb-looking dude. Using words that are references to older works, especially epics.
This anon here gets it.

>>18989865
A collection of disparate poems would be nice, too, but nicer still would it be for there to be some interplay between the poems. Something deserving of a singular name to unite them all, a Parnassus or what have you.

Get to it, my mujahideen

>>18989849
The mini-plays idea is good, but how would one go about not only consolidating all the works but making sure they are coherent, and for the credit of the individual authors to be there, and what about one author's work being discarded despite his efforts?
>>18989869
You know, this whole thing actually sounds really interesting, a collective epic. Still, I have no inkling how we might go about this.
>>18989880
ty

>>18989353
I doubt it'd be any good.
What makes epics so "epic" are individual acts of heroism and martial ability, something that an individual can hardly do in the age of dronestrikes, guns, and tanks.
What makes Diomedes', Hector's, and Achilles' aristeias so great is that they are fighting man to man, carving their way through hordes of troops with shield and spear.
Or look at Beowulf, where Beowulf literally rips Grendel's arm off with his own hands, then swims to the depths of a swamp to kill Grendel's mother with a legendary sword he chances upon at her lair.
These are impressive and "epic" partly because they are achieve through (super)human feats of valor.
Modern war takes most of that away. There is no valor in dronestrikes.
Or look at Star Wars (onions, I know). Would the duels between Luke, Vader, and the Emperor been as epic if they were fought with guns instead of lightsabers?
No.
There's something about fighting with swords, spears, shields, etc. that makes them fundamental to epics; something guns and tanks and fighterjets

>>18989906
>something guns and tanks and fighterjets
something guns and tanks and fighterjets *lack.
I think part of that something is the individual

>>18989884
We create a document, put down all of our names and what we will write within a niche. Preferably said niches will have some sense of chronology and progression, so each anon will write one rung of the ladder, and because it's in a live document stored on a cloud, we can each see what the person before and after is writing.

And I've gotta hit the history books, I'm a deadhead when it comes to this conflict.

>>18989906
What say you about us "mythicizing" the conflict and introducing larger-than-life personalities and unreal beasts and creatures? As anons previously proposed- djinns, perhaps faustian-scientific abominations, anything more is up to the imagination.

There is always a way to make combat appealing, or bluntly, bittersweetly tragic and banal- like in dronestrikes or IED explosions. Perhaps there we will have to explore venues of more hypertrophied psyches than bodies.

Guns can be heroic, so can tanks- especially in the act of destroying a tank and killing its crew, perhaps through a solitary act- hunting it with an RPG like a vulcanic harpoon against a megalodon or something. I don't doubt the resourcefulness of our anons, so no more naysaying.

>>18989920
I myself know next to nothing about the war but I don't think that matters too much.

I also wonder, once the stories are hypothetically collected, how would we get published? Considering a fellowship of internet dwellers trying to publish a story on the Taliban to the outside public wouldn't fly well with them.

There can't be any epics anymore. They would work as propaganda.

>>18989881
>but nicer still would it be for there to be some interplay between the poems. Something deserving of a singular name to unite them all, a Parnassus or what have you.
This is what I think too, but though I dig the greeks, I think another name would be more appropriate for this project. Something arabian/persian/islamic idk.

>Get to it, my mujahideen
This is the spirit.

>>18989961
>Don't you dare using my work as propaganda
How naive are you, anon?

>>18990013
>filename
kek

>>18989884
>Still, I have no inkling how we might go about this.
We will be figuring things out as we go.
One of the most important things though is that we keep on working on this STEADLY.
We should be able to deliver at least a few lines for week or something like that, you know?
With some endurance and discipline we might eventually deliver it.

There are some good nicknames for military equipment, they just need to be researched and found- like "Shaitan Arba." America- the great whore, has landed all her lovers on our shore.

>>18989586
Maybe you should try Sade/Marat

You do realise that Homer was a good thousand years after the purported timing of the Illiad. Trots were irrelevant merely 100 years ago.

>>18990048
Got it, how about we make a general, keep it updated.
>>18990068
based

Also let's not forget how absolutely effay the talibros are.

>>18989906
>There is no valor in dronestrikes.
This is one idea that we might eventually aknowledge too, how vile and "unchivalric" is the drones's system and the lack of courage and balls from the "men" behind it that never show their faces, that don't have "skin in the game" and strike villages from the other side of Earth taking lives as if it was a videogame.

You see?
I'm already "feeling" it, that's why I can contribute to this stuff because although jaded, I as other anons resonate reasonably with this shit.

>>18990078
>Got it, how about we make a general, keep it updated.
This would be GREAT and I think it's the way to go.

>>18989689
>>18989785
>>18989830

On modern weapons, drones, the supernatural:

Have you not seen how your Lord dealt with the Army of the Elephant?
Did He not frustrate their scheme?
For He sent against them flocks of birds,
that pelted them with stones of baked clay,
leaving them like chewed up husks.—Quran 105:1-5

>>18989865
>>18989881

If a title for a collection of poems is needed there's the Muallaqat: The Muʻallaqāt (Arabic: المعلقات, [ʔalmuʕallaqaːt]) is a group of seven long Arabic poems.[1] The name means The Suspended Odes or The Hanging Poems, the traditional explanation being that these poems were hung in the Kaaba in Mecca,[2] while scholars have also suggested that the hanging is figurative, as if the poems "hang" in the reader's mind.[3]

Along with the Mufaddaliyat, Jamharat Ash'ar al-Arab, Asma'iyyat, and the Hamasah, the Mu'allaqāt are considered the primary source for early Arabic poetry.[4]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mu%27allaqat

>>18990131
Also, for inspiration: Tolstoy'sHajdi Murat.

>>18990115
Perhaps the drones and higher weaponry will occupy the catastrophic and petty role of the gods we saw in the Iliad.

>>18990131
>Quran 105:1-5
Absolutely based.
>>18990150
>Hajdi Murat.
Actually one of my favourite short books, loved the bromance between him and that Russian officer.

I'll be back tomorrow morning, hopefully to a still-living venture. My hat is in the ring

>>18990131
I have been searching the names of the different genres of arabic poetry, there is a list:
>Madih, a eulogy or panegyric
>Hija, a lampoon or insult poem
>Rithā', an elegy
>Wasf, a descriptive poem
>Ghazal, a love poem, sometimes expressing love of men
>Khamriyyah, wine poetry
>Tardiyyah, hunt poetry
>Khawal, homiletic poetry
>Fakhr, boasting
>Hamasah, war poetry
Of these names, i think Hamasah, the last one, would fit best with the theme.

>>18989951
>Considering a fellowship of internet dwellers trying to publish a story on the Taliban to the outside public wouldn't fly well with them.
But that's the whole point, anon.
Don't worry about that, we might as well even get "discovered" (if you know what I mean). Kek
If the worst happen, hold on.
And always remember:
There's not such a thing as bad publicity (I guess).

The Taliban subject is our "edgness", you know?
Congratulations, you're a true artist in the west iconoclastic tradition. Kek

>>18990131
>The name means The Suspended Odes or The Hanging Poems, the traditional explanation being that these poems were hung in the Kaaba in Mecca,[2] while scholars have also suggested that the hanging is figurative, as if the poems "hang" in the reader's mind.
Cool. This is really AMAZING, anon.
The "hanging poems" have been on my list for a while; now I have a good excuse to check them out and put them on my top reading priority.

>>18989362
>>18989353
It would be interesting to see a story that somehow mixed the feeling of an epic battle (from the Taliban side) with the comic ineptitude of the American military.

>>18989906
>he wouldn't read an epic about a lone man heroically making a last-stand charge against the enemy's behemoth armoured force with nothing but his courage, his wit, and his VBIED

>>18990202

>I have been searching the names of the different genres of arabic poetry, there is a list:
>Madih, a eulogy or panegyric
>Hija, a lampoon or insult poem
>Rithā', an elegy
>Wasf, a descriptive poem
>Ghazal, a love poem, [fake progressive faggotry]
>Khamriyyah, wine poetry
>Tardiyyah, hunt poetry
>Khawal, homiletic poetry
>Fakhr, boasting
>Hamasah, war poetry
>Of these names, i think Hamasah, the last one, would fit best with the theme.

An anon above suggested a collection of poems forming an epic. With the genre list above why stick to Hamasah? Why not let it be open?

>>18990150
>Also, for inspiration: Tolstoy'sHajdi Murat.
>>18990168
>Actually one of my favourite short books, loved the bromance between him and that Russian officer.
One more added to my reading list.

>>18990150
>>18990168
One of the best books on Afghanistan I've read.

>>18990150
>>18990168
>>18990180
>I'll be back tomorrow morning, hopefully to a still-living venture. My hat is in the ring
Me too, anon. I gotta hit the bed now but I'm looking forward to all this.
See you tomorrow, bros.

>>18990271
True, but since The Muʻallaqāt already exists, we would need to add something to the title, maybe related or unrelated to /lit/ itself.

>>18990327
If we all take on pseudonyms for the purpose of authoring this work, perhaps we can relate the title to the collective theme of the pseudonyms.

>>18990202
>>18990271
>>18990327
>True, but since The Muʻallaqāt already exists, we would need to add something to the title, maybe related or unrelated to /lit/ itself.
True. I'd like something as "classy"/"soft"/"sugestive" as Borges' Conference of Birds. Something in these lines, maybe
But I agree that as the tittle already exists we got to have a 'twist'.

>>18990332
>If we all take on pseudonyms for the purpose of authoring this work, perhaps we can relate the title to the collective theme of the pseudonyms.
This might be nice too.

>>18990327
>>18990357
Poetry is not the just the domain of men in Afghanistan. The nation’s most famous female poet is Rabia Balkhi, a woman who lived in the 10th century, and wrote powerful Persian poems about love. Rabia Balkhi was imprisoned and killed by her brother for falling in love with a slave. It is commonly believed that she wrote her last poem on the wall of the room she was imprisoned in, using her own blood.

Many Pashtun women in Afghanistan use landai, a type of oral poetry, originating thousands of years ago, to express love and grief. Landai is a type of poem (usually anonymous) that is composed of two lines and typically has 22 syllables. One of the most famous landai poems came from Malalai, an Afghan heroine who played a major role in the Battle of Maiwand during the second Anglo-Afghan war. During the battle, when the tide turned against the Afghan fighters and their morale dropped, Malalai cried out:

Young love if you do not fall in the battle of Maiwand;
By God someone is saving you as a token of shame;

The common belief is that this landai motivated the Afghan fighters to fight harder, ultimately defeating the British invaders.

As a form of entertainment, Afghans participate in what is referred to as Sher Jangi, which translates to “poetry fighting” or “poem battle”. One person composes a verse, and his or her opponent must respond by composing a coherent second verse that begins with the last letter of the first verse. The game goes back and forth until one of them fails to come up with a coherent response.

>>18990349
>Borges' Conference of Birds.
a title taken from Attar, a Persian/Afghan (Khorasani) poet.

>>18990349
>>18990357
>>18990430

Quest in rhyming couplets as a template?

Manṭiq-uṭ-Ṭayr
Main article: The Conference of the Birds
In the poem, the birds of the world gather to decide who is to be their sovereign, as they have none. The hoopoe, the wisest of them all, suggests that they should find the legendary Simorgh. The hoopoe leads the birds, each of whom represents a human fault which prevents human kind from attaining enlightenment.

>The hoopoe tells the birds that they have to cross seven valleys in order to reach the abode of Simorgh. These valleys are as follows:[20][21] 1. Valley of the Quest, where the Wayfarer begins by casting aside all dogma, belief, and unbelief.2. Valley of Love, where reason is abandoned for the sake of love.3. Valley of Knowledge, where worldly knowledge becomes utterly useless. 4. Valley of Detachment, where all desires and attachments to the world are given up. Here, what is assumed to be “reality” vanishes. 5. Valley of Unity, where the Wayfarer realizes that everything is connected and that the Beloved is beyond everything, including harmony, multiplicity, and eternity. 6. Valley of Wonderment, where, entranced by the beauty of the Beloved, the Wayfarer becomes perplexed and, steeped in awe, finds that he or she has never known or understood anything. 7. Valley of Poverty and Annihilation, where the self disappears into the universe and the Wayfarer becomes timeless, existing in both the past and the future.

>>18990430
>a title taken from Attar, a Persian/Afghan (Khorasani) poet.
Thanks, you are absolutely right.
I appreciated.

>>18990357
Curiously, >>18990349 ties in with what I was saying in >>18990332. I don't know what "Conference of the Birds" relates to, but it's what I meant by a title related to the pseudonyms. We are all a conference of birds, collectively working. Some of us are uglier than the others, but the nest is big enough for all of us.

>>18990500
There's a tradittion in Arabic writing of assigning the name Fulan ibn Fulan (so-and-so son of so and-so) to anonymous authors, sources, etc.

Good thread, I agree with the anon above that the modern weapons should be spelled out like the supernatural. See Heidgger's Question concerning technology for philosophical ideas.
And rapid dominance as a military tactic.

The transistor itself lends itself to this metaphor well. There should be useful antiquated words for "crystal power"

>>18989637
Based.

>>18989637

That’s from that Portuguese guy tragedy. There’s more in the archives:

This is a speech from a play I’m writing. Here’s the context: it’s a Taliban warlord, captured by American soldiers, ranting against their technology and modern warfare techniques.

The original is in Portuguese, written with metrical 12-syllable verse lines, but without rhyme (blank verses).

MULLAH AZZAMI: You hide yourselves in the skies, inside your jets,
And thus, disinfected and pasteurized,
Concealed among the cold clouds, as safe
As in the diapers and comfort of your homes,
Just as if you were playing video games,
You launch your rockets, cauterizing the earth:
The spawning of hell made amid yawns.
We merely hear the screeches of your F-18s,
We do not even see your metal lizards
Sliding in the air, but only hear their sonic scream
Eviscerating the skies, the thunder of an invisible
Storm, an earthquake in the heights,
And then, in the blink of an eye, the explosion and the blood,
Bellies foaming off their intestines,
Arms and legs ripped off, the stench
Of human flesh, bones, skin and fat burning.
You, however, do not even see all that from the comfortable
Loins of your steel dragons. The only thing you glimpse
From high above is a cloud of fire, dust and smoke,
And not the horrible hemorrhage beneath it.
You rule the coral language of the flames,
You know the complete orthography of extermination,
You have put leashes in the tridents of the lightning,
You have squeezed the infernal heartburn of volcanoes
Inside cans – your bombs and torpedoes –,
But all this majestic witchcraft
Is at the same time a manifesto of cowards.
You fight with joysticks, you do not nail eye
In eye, you do not even see the color of the blood you shed,
You are not honorable as those who force themselves
To dissolving the white knot of fear in their guts
Because they well know that they might die. You kill
With the ardor of those who make chess moves,
You kill as one that scratches names from a list.
Oh, I wish all wars were from man to man,
Just a knife against a knife. It is then that we would see
Who is brave, embattled and bold and who is just
A mere bureaucrat of fire and rumble

>>18991514

The present speeches are made by a Taliban warlord, when he is already captured by tree American SEALS (they are unable to flee the small rural town on a helicopter because of a snowstorm that comes out of nowhere, so they take shelter with the prisoner in a barn). The Taliban lord remembers the day of the attacks. He and his soldiers weren’t aware of Bin Laden’s intentions, and although he could feel that they would pay for something that they personally didn’t organized, he couldn’t help but feel some joy to see America hit in it’s soft bosom.

The original is in Portuguese, with 12-syllable verse-lines (without rhyme, that is: Blank verse)

MULLAH AZZAMI: I did not know Bin Laden planned
An attack on your towers, I did not even know
That a city like New York, flowered
With such buildings - such howls of steel and glass - existed.
The pinnacle of Babylon before such a city
Was not even the childhood of greatness.
Even marmoreal Rome, in all its glory,
Was nothing but a boy modeling castles
In a sand-box in front of this ecstasy of steel.
But the tears of time dissolve everything;
Rock and metal are blood cousins of dew;
The whispers of crickets today roar louder
Than the legislating of Caesar itching the dust.
Apathetical oblivion devours the purple
Of empires like blackberries. But, returning to your towers,
The Taliban knew nothing, and I, like the whole globe,
Was surprised and gaped at the attack.
But you know what I thought when seeing that hell
On the faded screen of a tiny television?

MOORE: No one cares about your bloody
Mental masturbations you fucking psychopath.
Shut your mouth!

[I’m cutting some of the dialogue that comes here]

MULLAH AZZAMI: The white house boasts the color of peace as it’s face,
But inside her belly are curling up adipose
Dragons, roundworms and vipers: it is the home of Pharaoh
Of the world, who has long been torturing his servant,
Humanity. So violent is his scourge –
His hand that gutters the world and dines it as a turkey –
That all the horrors, crimes and midnights
Of history, seeing it, feel the urge to cry.

cont.

>>18991525


Seated in Washington the pharaoh threw
Arrows against all the tribes of this world
Without any of them returning the insult.
Occasionally one of them held a splinter,
A toothpick, and then it was promptly crushed.
In New York, to mock his prisoners,
The Pharaoh ordered a statue to be erect,
Built with tears from all over the world
Frozen in steel, and called it "Liberty."
But on that day, on the eleventh of September,
For the first time in history a few
Arrows of the thousand that the pharaoh threw around the globe
Turned their chelicerae against his heart.
All over the world dry and fragmented lips
Smiled; eyes undernourished of any hope
For the first time they sparkle like pearls;
Chained wrists rose up with joy.
For the first time someone rubbed embers –
The coral coals from the Infernal country of War –
In the naked heart of the planet’s Hydra.
Seeing the smoke, the dust, the glass, the orange
Flames, I realized that they were the blood
From the hymen of America that had finally been broken.
Watching the reporters and anchormen stuttering,
Not able to believe, not able to understanding, seeing Americans –
The race of humans that predates other humans –
Running and screaming and pulling their hair,
Seeing hell eating Satan himself,
I wasn’t able to say a single word, but my eyes
Then filled with tears, and my heart, trembling,
Sanctified the scent of chaos in silence.

>>18991531

Mullah Azzami: I feel like a blind and dried grasshopper
That the turbulent winds of this world drag around,
Hungry for crops that I will never taste.
Inside me there is so much anguish that my bones
Look like blades and with every movement,
With every breath, they cut me and pierce me
For the audacity of wanting to keep on living.
My soul is a desperate shout into the void.
Sometimes I wonder if God is not a friend
Of the poor souls of this world only in their dreams:
Divinity is like a nursing cat
That welcomes the kittens that bite her tits,
But drives away those who gently suck her milk.
The docile ones only have stones and mud to nourish them,
The tyrants, salads of lilies, milk of gold,
All the rainbow of pleasure upon their tables
In this great feast of injustices that is life.

Kala Khan: The justice of Allah will not sleep forever,
And the law shall be applied, be it under the sun,
Be it when the sun is no more than a dissolved dream

>>18991545

KALA KHAN: You come to us with arrogance, as if
You were bringing a torch to a dark cave
Where a race of men as blind as bats
Have been feeding on darkness for several generations.
For you living in the big city
The white invaders of America are angels,
But for us the voices of these angels sound
Like wheezes, every single one of their words
Has for tail the rattle of a rattlesnake;
Under the charity that they wear scales
Shine. Yes, you, who know much more than we do,
You believe that you work with angels, with seraphim,
But you can be sure, oh you blind ones who see far,
That the divine Muslim culture, the limpid
And sacred water that kills the thirst of our souls,
When these angels bathe in it,
Will become greasy as the thick cream and filthy broth
Of a harlots bathtub wash:
We will bless ourselves with the pasty foam
Of a dirty body. The learning that you bring us,
The new source that you open up to nourish us,
It is the swinish-sweat and hormone-soup of a satyr,
Yes, it is the sweat of the obese body of sin.
If we choose your creed and forget Islam
We will be the dog that denies the pot of clean water
In favor of a slimy and stagnant puddle,
And, by drinking filth, we will populate
The soul with worms: our immortal diamond
Will be more rotten than the intestinal night
Of the curs from the gutters

>>18991551

I also posted this some weeks ago.

The context of this speech is this: an elderly leader from a provincial mountain village of Afghanistan is urging some of the young men of the place to take up kalashnikovs and save a Taliban lord that is being held hostage by 3 US soldiers in a barn.

A great snowstorm was formed and is coming down upon the mountain. The elderly muslim sees the wrath of Allah in the storm and makes a speech to fuel the wills of his young students.

The original is in Portuguese. I will post my free translation first, and then the original text.

KALA KHAN: Look at the horizon: it is the heart of Allah
That was cut opened: hatred bubbles out from his chest.
Grayish and angry, the skies foam snow;
The winds show their canines, their claws,
Ripping and chewing the world into distortion.
The air, roaring and growling, screaming and howling,
Unbones the trunks of the pines, steal the leaves
From the trees, the gale dresses himself in green,
An emerald ghost slapping the streets.
Lightning invades the eclipse of the atmosphere:
His pale beak, his sparkling nails
Excavate the dark and gnaw night like a liver.
The clouds of lead that have docked on the heavens
Are like colossal mountains that breathe,
In which the bears of the windwhirls sleep.
This is the language of Allah when infuriated:
The appalling architecture of the tempests.

>>18989353

bump

>>18989353
Retelling of the Odyssey set in America with the Olympians being replaced with bored glowies tracking some guys life

>>18989488
So basically like Gravity's Rainbow?

The intense earnestness of true epic is something at odds with current year modernity. The closest thing we have is probably Lord of the Rings in terms of public appeal combined with scope and a very obvious (even if not to the author) riff on the Great War.

>>18989637

lol, this is the same guy who wrote the Hitler speech in a poetry thread this year. It's the same style and that guy also was a portuguese language native.

>>/lit/thread/S18719854#p18743627

Hitler, alone, contemplates his maps, laid out on the table, and a globe.

HITLER: How was it...what was his name again...that little man...
Chaplin? Yes, that’s right, Charles Chaplin.
A kind of gnomic scarecrow, that fellow,
Some type of goblin smeared with moonshine-anemic make-up.
Before my face he would not dare look up
Without his bowels dissolving into breast milk.
Chaplin...He portrayed me in that comedy...
It was a good film. Clowns have their cunning.
I was playing with a globe, like a happy child.
That was a clever way of making fun of me...
I’ll give that bastard that. Cowards will dare
Grow fangs if they know they are safe.
But if he knew...if they, if everyone only knew,
If all those people, all that flesh could peep inside my brain
And see the the unborn fetuses of the wonders
I have imagined for a future so distant in time
That it doesn't even babble, the embryos of monumental things
Pulsing and kicking and swimming in the dark before birth
That is my mind...those Babylons whose stones
Are still composed only of the mists of dreams.
The cathedrals of matter and spirit that live in me
Are still tadpoles sleeping inside the bowels
Of the seeds that I planted to fruit on the horizon
Of the horizon, to be eaten by human races
Of a thousand years in the future...
Even the pulp of the fruit of Paradise, that made all heaven sigh;
Even the taste of Eva's milk in Abel's mouth;
Even the warmth of the first bath of forgiveness
That the deity gave to the first being that let him down...
None of these supreme flavors, flavours that would make
The visceral honey-flood of orgasm nothing but
The brusque caress of a callused hand, none of these ecstasies
Tasted so sweet as the fruits of the future I would give them.
If they could witness a single whisper of the glory
That I would raise from the dust in all corners of the world.
I would cover the Earths crust with marble monuments,
I would dress the souls of humanity with mantles of light.
I would force the human race to achieve its fullest potential...
Fearful curd-faced clown, you don’t know how tragic is your satire.
If only I could actually hold the world in my hands...
Here pyramids would be erected, there lice crushed:
None of the trillions of rocks that float in the dark oceans
Of the cosmos Would be more magnificent...And yet...
My hands...so weak now...trembling...
In the past I felt my nerves throbbing, the blood kicking in my veins
As I spent the night working, the pleasurable pain of the pen
Pressing against my fingers...The bitter taste of coffee in my mouth
Echoed promises and fulfillment...That’s all over now,
It’s futile to think on it.


1/2

>>18993532

(He walks to his desk and take some papers out of a drawer. They are some drawings and old scribbles.)

HITLER: I wonder if things could have been different.
I’m so tired... There are more drugs in my veins than blood.
What if this was all for nothing?
All this muscle work, all this mental work, all this suffering,
All this blood and sweat and tears and cerebral fluid.
I threw my saps like wash to the pig of a hideous world
When they should be the delight of angels and mermaids.
If only I had put more effort into my art... I was young...
Maybe I could be happy now, not this statue of nervous tics ... happy,
And living an anonymous life, maybe in the country
That I love so much...maybe a hut in the black florest.
The stomach of happiness is satiated with so little.
I would not depend on the weakness of others,
On the lack of wolves and toothed-juices in the stomach of others,
On the watery, the moon-dew marrow of others.
I didn’t have to be extremely successful,
Only be able to live of my art. I wonder
If I was wrong about it all. To hate others:
It’s so tiring, so life-consuming.
What man on Earth has a hand capable of crushing
Every man on Earth who deserves to be crushed.
How many nights of heartburn and sour breath in the night dew,
How many days of foam in my mouth, of rotten egg yolks for suns.
But the human leprosy kept raising its head
And stirring, and worming, and pulsing,
And it didn't matter how many blows you gave.
The gospel of fire never cleansed that damned scabies...
How much of my mind and body and soul
I gave as food to hatred...was I wrong?
To rise so high that my face was already tanned by the stars,
The heavens offering me their innermost delights,
Like a virgin...to soar so high, much, much higher
Than the nurseries of Eagles, higher than the youthful
Dreams of Babel, only to fall when I already had
The taste of glory in my palate... the golden olive oil
That not even the angels taste...and then to fall
Into this mud, into this world of slime
Where worms are the great legislators, even though
I have offered myself as a sacrifice to destroy them all.
What is the final meaning of my life?...”

Enter a general

GENERAL: My führer, we need you to approve some orders and plans of action.

HITLER; Yes, yes, of course you do. Yes, I'm going.

Maybe we're nearing the point now where it's possible to make an epic that covers the whole sweep from the death of the 19th century - Victoria's death might be the starting point - and through the Great War and the interregnum and the Second Great War, ending up with the whole world poised for cleansing by nuclear fire. But it does all centre on Hitler. He really is the crux. There's a reason his name is still invoked with the intensity that was once reserved for Old Scratch himself.

It certainly needs to be summed up somehow, so that a future generation for whom all of this is as distant and strange as the Thirty Years War can read it and form some rough outline of our own souls in his mind.

>>18989353
Napoleon Dynamite meets Shinzo Abe in a Starbucks at Qatar's

>>18990500
>We are all a conference of birds, collectively working.
I wouldn't mind being a "bird". And since this is poetry related, we'd be all singing our songs and stuff.
Nice.

A fine idea, but someone make a Google doc or something if we really want to create this

>>18991514
>>18991525
>>18991531
>>18991545
>>18991551
>>18991556
Thanks. There's some GREAT stuff here, I'm really eager to read more.
I'd like to tell all the bards and birds of this board that you already have at least ONE fond and affectionate reader.

You're amazing, anons.
Cheers!

>>18994386

I think that's all from a single guy. It's the same dude that posted this:

>>18993532
>>18993539

It's an old /lit/ poster who writes Shakesperean tragedies.

If you pay attention the style is the same.

War and Peace but about World War II

Life and fate wasn't good enough. Not even near the level of mindreading Tolstoy presents us.

>>18995484
>Not even near the level of mindreading Tolstoy presents us.
Mindreading? What do you mean???

>>18995508

The illusion he creates of being capable of nesting inside the mind of any human being, independent of sex, age or background.

Bump. Is anyone on board for the project? Was anyone?

>>18996667
Thank for the bump, I was afraid the thread was already archived.

>Is anyone on board for the project?
Surely, I'm posting this as a sign of goodwill and that I'm really digging this project and that I will try to deliver some material with these themes STEADILY, though I'm a minor poet.


This is what I could come up with by now:

Where is long-haired Solayman?
Where can I find him?
Can he be found in the sands of the desert?
Perharps, being heard in the mountain's winds
Is he still carrying his kalashnikov and his flute?
Is he still mimicking the birds
with his soft voice?
Is he still testing chance
by his own lofty choice?
The petroleum of his head-plumes
brighted so black
back in the day
when he was in Elysium
His trance-like chain-song
got every adjacent being
absolutely hooked
Making me feel young
in my afternoon
Now who is gonna make my
over-sugared green tea?
Child-like, pestering me
with questions
about the color of the sea
Can he rest his head finally?
Can some djin sing so divinely?
Where is long-haired Solayman?

>>18996887
The same here, but I'm waiting for an anon with editorial knowledge to create a document. I mean, how else can our collective effort be put out save for a published epic/anthology? Hand-outs from poets can only last until mom kicks you out, after that we'll be the ones asking for hand-outs.

>>18997048
Surely, you have a point, anon.
But also, calm down. We will eventually figure the things out.
Hopefully, in the near future, someone with editorial skills will jump on board.
Until then, let's save each other's stuff and make back-ups. That's what we have by now.
So, cheer-up. Let's keep delivering some material for anon's enjoyment/outrage and let's keep discussing the themes and roads we might take, because some things (hopefully) get solved by themselves with time.
The most important thing, I guess, is that we have some more output to show constantly.
Plus, remember we're still on day 1/2 of this thing.
Relax, lad.

>>18997260
Thanks, mate. I was just expecting this to fall by the wayside because I'm well acquainted with the "wouldn't it be cool if we did..." spirit. Perhaps I'm expecting some vigorous organizer when I should be patient and trusting.

Either way, godspeed!

https://www.newstribune.com/news/international/story/2021/sep/07/taliban-say-they-took-panjshir-last-holdout-afghan-province/887188/

I reckon that none of us here are Taliban, muslim, or Afghans. Perhaps our writing about them will just be using them as a muse through which to project some warrior-bandit ideal, men born in the wrong age fighting the fated monster.

Nothing in the realm of current western reality would make a good epic. Something extraordinarily drastic would have to occur to be worth writing about.

Whatever it is, it has to rhyme. None of this soulless modernity "free verse" shit with random line breaks in prose.

>>18997289
>I was just expecting this to fall by the wayside because I'm well acquainted with the "wouldn't it be cool if we did..." spirit.
Yep, I also know it too well.
That's the problem with the things here, anon likes too much useless theorizing, for its own sake.
I believe more in taking action(by that, I mean actually writing stuff) but anon maybe is too jaded to do their own thing or, in fact, to do ANYTHING at all.
They will invent any excuses they can to reason why they can't never write anything and then die by the hands of monsters of their own creation.

I like these themes and I plan on outputting, at least, weekly.
If I have another anon then is at least two of us, which btw is the bare minimum to make a group/crew/movement, I suppose. Kek
We may have fun.

God this god this god this thread makes my tummy hurt. Nothing will exist beyond 2028 except for the Oriental race and the schizolibertarian magicians who are able to manifest themselves artificial oriental features and shadowingly resist sinocommunistic global slavery to sing the songs of dead dreamers to nobody. The modern epic will be written in mandarin Chinese and I can already tell that many of you will willingly make yourselves puppets of the Jingping regime.

>>18997547
>The modern epic will be written in mandarin Chinese and I can already tell that many of you will willingly make yourselves puppets of the Jingping regime.
>Implying I don't already write poems in (bad) chinese.
Let them come. Lol

It would run the course of at least 50 years and follow some sort of influence through several different characters.
The most important aspect of todays society isn't war, it's the fact that information travels the globe with nearly zero effort.

>>18997598
What is Doctor Zhivago
The novel

>I don't understand what the modern is
Jesus fuck new Bruce.

>>18998293
Take a break pal

>>18998296

A novel that portrays the gradual destruction of a wealthy Jewish family, ending in the camps, with a scene of the trial of the absent god.

In the same novel, the rise and fall of Hitler, with several internal monologues and written in the way Tolstoy wrote about his greatest characters (not Napoleon - he couldn’t keep his impartiality functional when he spoke about Napoleon).

Other main characters would be Germans who opposed the Nazi regime, maybe even a Lutheran pastor.

Several scenes on the battlefield would be needed, as well as scenes of people living the normal pleasures of family life. For example: the Jewish family marriages and parties and weekends on one of their vineyards. Maybe the patriarch of the family might end up destroyed like Lear.

As for the German family, maybe one of the high status Military Nobility family. One that think on duty to the fatherland, but at the same time see Hitler and the Nazis as mostly plebs that won power through politics.

Hitler himself would be the great tragic center of the work. Some sort of great Richard III figure, but more humane, more subtle. The scenes in the bunker should be as terrible to read as the scenes in the camps.

Maybe another character should be a handsome and gentle boy, a friend from the German Army Nobles, that starts the book graduating in medicine and slowly is proved to be some sort of sociopath that will stop at nothing to promote his career.

Something like this. I would like to write this but I’m not German and it would take me several years to really speak realistically of the society of the period.

The main trick would have to be to use the technique of Tolstoy: his scenes are constantly made of mind perceptions of one character having consequences on other characters, it’s always a greater preoccupation with perceptions of humans about other humans (small gestures, tones of voice, what he or she is thinking or probably thinking, how this affects me, a constant rubbing of conscience on conscience) than with descriptions of places and buildings and clothes.

If someone could create something like War and Peace, but settled in WWII Germany, I think this would probably be a contender for greatest work of literature of all time. The tragedy of Hitler and the tragedy of prosperous and normal-living Jewish senpaiília into the depths of the camps are some of the most powerfull themes I can think of. If one could deal with them with absolute humanity and impartiality the result would be awe inspiring.

>>18999527
>modern

>>18997289
>https://www.newstribune.com/news/international/story/2021/sep/07/taliban-say-they-took-panjshir-last-holdout-afghan-province/887188/
I can't acess the link :(

>>18989389
100% based.

I'm in.

I can't write tho.

>>18999893
>I can't write tho.
It's alright, anon. You can help 'spreading the word'.

>>18989830
was this the infamous Downs Syndrome Brigade?

Bump for later