/lit/ - Literature

>>18995400
I consider death and killing in themselves to be moral neutrals. Moral evil only results from the pain caused by the process of killing, which can be mitigated by compassionate slaying practices; the suffering caused by the conditions in which the animals live, which can be mitigated as well, though not cheaply or easily; and the damage to the virtue of the slayer, that is to slay, people should kill the animals they wish to eat instead of paying someone else to do it.

>>18995437
Practically all death causes pain, stop justifying your selfish hedonism, you can always eat plants which have no nervous system and therefore feel no pain

>>18995400
Eating mammals and birds is bad.
Eating fish is fine because they lack capacity for self-reflection, which all mammals and birds can do. Pescetarianism is the best approach, but there are issues of overfishing and contaminants in the ocean now.
Studies in the past showed eating fatty fish correlated with higher IQ. There is nothing superior to a topical diet of fish, coconuts, and pineapples.
The only exception are negroes. They differ other mammals and birds in that they lack self-reflective capacities. Imo, I would use them for invasive medical experiments.

>>18995400
the moral defense is that it makes me happy

>>18995454
>They differ
They differ from*

>>18995400
I eat fish cuz i hate those fuckers

>>18995400
>There is NO moral defense for eating meat
Now that would be interesting if you could prove it's impossible to defend this morally but I think you mean "in my set of acceptable moral systems it's against carnivorism".

>>18995400
Matthew 15:11
>Not that which goeth into the mouth defileth a man: but what cometh out of the mouth, this defileth a man.

>>18995400
What makes you think I want to defend it? Survival of the fittest, their deaths maintain us.

>>18995400
>le catch a fish
>le eat it
>OP shits himself

Ok

>>18995449
How do I know they don't feel pain? You say that a nervous system is required to feel pain, but how do I know that plants don't have nervous systems of different type from humans? And besides, farming entails the deaths of many animals - do you think dying from pesticides is pleasant?

>>18995457
Then you're a fucking psychopath, suffering outweighs happiness, and you're inflicting suffering on dozens if not hundreds of innocent farm animals throughout your life to sustain yourself

Stop being a speciesist, there is literally no logical reason to value humans above animals, we're both incidental products of blind self-replicating DNA, we're both born for no reason just to suffer and experience pleasure that our DNA imprints into us to get us to reproduce, humans will die at the Heat Death of the Universe even if we spread throughout the cosmos, hell, we will probably die to climate change

>>18995488
I feel like you've been making this same argument for years and haven't advanced your position at all

>>18995488
what makes any vegan defense not applicable to plants as well? are plants not living organisms? is it simply the existence of brain chemicals?
you will cause suffering no matter what and you will like it.

>>18995400
Jesus said i could

>>18995503
There's no evidence that plants have consciousness, ZERO, scientists have never found a single shred of evidence they feel anything

>>18995514
so unconscious animals are okay to eat?

>>18995488
Since you are obviously a materialist, why should "I" care about electrical signals? What makes one better than another?

>>18995514
Your argument is that released chemical signals are then just reactive no? Well there is an agent in there reacting still.

>>18995454
Based racist vegetarian

>>18995488
>humans are the same as animals
>we are incidental products of blind DNA
>born for no reason
>life is suffering
>all we have is to experience pleasure
>heat death climate change everything will end soon forever oblivion pointless universe
(Beat)
>s-s-s-stop being a psychopath w-w-w-we have to be nice and be good Christians

Lmao do scientards really

>>18995517
No, animals have the right to live

>>18995518
Since you are obviously a psychopath, i'll explain the reason you should care, it's because the majority determines the rules of society, which we call "morality", you'll be judged and persecuted if you act like a complete psychopath piece of shit, simple

>>18995488
>human lives are equal to animals
>humans are intelectually superior to animals to be considered moral agents, so it is our moral imperaritive to spare them from suffering.
So which is it?

>>18995514
Scientists can't prove that anything has consciousness. They can only say
>consciousness from brain
>plants have no brain
>therefore no consciousness

But you see that the first premise is horrible. You may not agree with me right now, but let us consider a thought experiment. Let us say that an alien race of completely different biology exists, and that they have advanced to the same state as humans, and even have many of the same philosophical debates, including whether it is right to eat "alienammals". They don't have brains, at least not anything like what humans have. Are they unconscious or not?

>>18995488
>there is literally no logical reason to value humans above animals
on average humans provide more to me than animals
the difference between moral evaluation and psychopathy is shortsidedness. i care for those around me because their continued companionship brings me joy and material gifts.
>>18995532
>animals have the right to live
as do plants.
>rights
excellent bait. please read some basic philosophy if you are genuine.

>>18995532
If the majority determines the rules, and they are completely arbitrary, isn't it okay to eat meat? You could say it's inconsistent but it's arbitrary, why does it have to be consistent?

>>18995532
>you have to not be a psychopath because otherwise w-w-we'll throw you in prison!!! Ok??????

Masterbait, I almost thought this was an actual 16 year old

>>18995454
We could just breed mentally retarded chickens and you'd eat them?

>>18995488
>suffering outweighs happiness
Show me where your utilitarian calculator says so.

>>18995532
>it's because the majority determines the rules of society, which we call "morality",
The majority isn't vegetarian. Maybe you're the one who's the psychopath?

>>18995550
The only constant is that we all suffer and we all can relieve that suffering of other people if we try, holy shit, it's not that hard to understand

But apparently if your fucking invisible man didn't send his son to be crucified to forgive humans for making THEM evil or some shit, you can now deny the universal and evident reality of suffering being bad, just because you feel like it

>>18995449
Eating is selfish. I'm not sure how you can justify eating without being selfish.

Friendly reminder that the OP is pro-abortion and believes they have the moral high-ground there too.

>>18995400

What about eating crow?

*Breeds braindead cows*
WTF I'm moral now?
Ayyy, suffering fucking eliminated!

>>18995400
>>18995602

If you are not also anti-natalist then you are a hypocrite.

If those cows experienced just the single tiniest moment of happiness, that justifies their lives of suffering

>>18995400
vegans BTFO
>Pollan argues that to "give up" human consumption of animals would lead to a "food chain…even more dependent than it already is on fossil fuels and chemical fertilizers since food would need to travel even farther and fertility—in the form of manures—would be in short supply". Given that, according to Pollan, other than raising ruminants for human consumption, no viable alternatives exist in such grassy areas, for growing any grains or other plant foods for human consumption.

>>18995400

God Himself contradicts you in the very first chapter of the bible rofl, animals are things

>>18995668

Psst. God didn't write the bible.

>>18995400
There are no non-subjective morals, retard.

Yes I know my consumption of meat causes animal suffering, no I dont intend to change that, yes I habe watched dominion, no I am not a psychopath, I simply value my own enjoyment higher.

>>18995400
Animals aren't conscious.

>>18995400
Bruv, why does your diet require a moral defense if you're going to die as well?
>subhuman
>empathy
>good person
All these nonsensical prescriptivisms.

God has created animals to be eaten and used, that doesnt justify hurting them more than necessary though.

>>18995677
>no I am not a psychopath, I simply value my own enjoyment higher.
Holy shit, the lack of self-awareness people like you have is absolutely astounding
This is why i fucking hate demons with zero empathy or compassion for other people like you, like 40% of America, holy shit, you're like fucking NPCs, you don't realize how evil and stupid you are, how much you deny science and the basic fact and value of empathy, simply to gorge yourselves selfishly

I think i'm gonna leave this place, you people are just unbearable, i don't think i can ever convince you, your brains are defectuous, the problem is you lack empathy and that's unfixable

>>18995698

Overplaying your hand

>moral defense for eating meat
None needed you grass-fed faggot.

>>18995698
your pathetic faux-marytyrdom is selfish. you should read more books.

>>18995698
Dont forget to close the door on your way out

>>18995400
Slightly tangential, but why are vegans so fucking retarded about inanimate animal products like eggs and honey? Every vegan believes human abortion should be legal but I am a monster for eating an unfertilized bird egg cell. Wtf.

>>18995722
Its a cult which functions on mass hysteria.

>>18995400
>There is NO moral defense for eating meat

My moral system lets me eat meat. Yours does not. My moral system is superior.

>>18995437
>people should kill the animals they wish to eat instead of paying someone else to do it.

That has never been a viable nor rational scenario in the history of mankind even dating back to hunter-gatherer times. You had specialists who would hunt and provide meat for the rest of the tribe. It is how a community functions and advances by delegating and splitting up the tasks of society to meet the needs of society. Your viewpoint is as stupid as claiming that one cannot even eat anything they have not harvested themselves.

>>18995400
>you're subhuman, nothing more to say, you are NOT a truly good person, you lack empathy
Wasn't there anthropological evidence for most vegan hunter gatherers being also into cannibalism? If veganism grows on, I think it's bound to happen, either directly in some cult or indirectly when govts begin sacrificing people to appease climate change.

>>18995731
Yeah, eating meat is moral, under any moral system in which eating meat is moral
How is this hard???

>>18995698
>demons
>evil
What the fuck are you even on about? Dichotomized designata like good/bad or right/wrong are arbitrary predicates, used to delineate disgust cues in socially stratified scenarios. You do realize that there's no such thing as "evil," right? You're a meatless teen, but you use the language of Sky Cake to chastise others. It's just so pathetic.

>>18995532
> it's because the majority determines the rules of society, which we call "morality", you'll be judged and persecuted if you act like a complete psychopath piece of shit, simple
So you don't really have an argument beyond social stigma. Anon this is just getting embarrassing please stop for your own sake.

>>18995437
Yeah, if you think having other people kill animas damages their virtue so
Simply become a sin eater, and take on the sins of dead butchers, problem solved. Pragmatism maintained.

>>18995400

There is NO moral defense for eating anything whatsoever. Do you have any idea how many animals die when a harvester drives through a field? For that matter the crews that operate these things sometimes lose PEOPLE; they occasionally find a limb later.

We live in an abattoir.

>>18995599
>We could just breed mentally retarded chickens and you'd eat them?
All mammals and birds are born with a divine light excluding Jews and Negroes who are creations of Ahriman.

>>18995673

You don't have to be the author of a book to be quoted in it retard lmao enjoy hell

>>18995698
Nigger, you're arguing with a guy who posts his opinion with a gigachad pic instead of replying to the serious counterarguments.

>the problem is you lack empathy and that's unfixable
Maybe we should kill all the sociopaths, amirite?

OP IRL: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xmviYej8-rQ

>>18995835

Where do you think you are now?

>>18995783
Forgot to tip your fedora, m8.

>>18995835
And uh who recorded the direct quote from God before he made any humans? You can do better than this.

>>18995783
>You do realize that there's no such thing as "evil," right?
Yeah okay Screwtape.

>>18995534
Anon's not making a good case but I think the distinction is between descriptive inequality v.s an ideal equality. For example a jacked dude is stronger than many other humans, but that fact alone wouldn't really provide a justification for him to go around murdering other less strong people. Animals may be significantly less intelligent, but they are still intelligent and complex in their own way & so inherently deserving of some respect. Though personally I would argue it's less about treating animals as "equals" and more about not causing needless suffering among creatures that are relatively complex & social.

>>18995883
>m'lady

>>18995698
>I think I'm gonna leave this place
Good. Sayonara faggot

I love animals. They don't waste their time and energy on moralfagging. They kill and eat each other without remorse. I want to be more like them.

>>18995791
There's nothing that can really be done about animals killed by harvesters; by contrast we can easily give up meat.

>>18995400
This faggot is spamming boards with this. Hide the thread

>>18995400
What book are you referring to, OP?

>>18995400
I wish I were a happy bird.
If you could be a cetacean or bird for one day, which species would you pick?

>>18995662
Interesting. I'll have to check the book out. Though I'm not sure I understand why food would need to travel more without livestock.

Eating meat is natural, therefore moral. Love is natural, as is empathy. the only unnatural thing here is your reasoning.

>>18995960

t. knows absolutely nothing about agriculture or scaling laws related to the logistics of feeding billions of landwhales

Speaking of, I bet you're "BODY POSITIVE" too, right?

>>18995791
kek