/lit/ - Literature

>>18994637
I know someone probably has an actual book recommendation on this topic and it's not productive to just fling shit but by god you can't ask such a stupid question and expect me not to make fun of you

>>18994637
yeah the big book of reddit

>>18994787
Based

Marvel comics and gossip magazines. That is where modern polytheist gods are.

Gawker

>all the seething christcucks itt
your desert jew religion is dead

>>18994811
You still don’t seem to understand what polytheism is, despite being told in the last thread multiple times. There is no polytheist theology. You just keep seething when you’re told that bluntly.

Still, the only philosophers (not theologians) which I’m aware of which attempted to arrive at a polytheistic conclusion in a remotely serious way are Maurras, Evola, and Heidegger.

>>18994868
>There is no polytheist theology

>>18994875
are you retarded, proclus is a neoplatonist they believe in the One

>>18994811
holy shit the icelandic pagans increased their numbers dramatically from 5 all the way to 10, I'm scared now

>>18994876
>they believe in the One
>doesn't know the Gods are henads of the One
how about you actually read the neoplatonists instead of shitposting on this board?

>>18994637
Most of them seem to build off Heidegger. Although there are obviously a lot of people that just continued the project of Plato.

Haven't read pic related but maybe you can get it and see if it is any good.

One god is laughable. Multiple gods is downright absurd.

>>18994897
>One god is laughable. Multiple gods is downright absurd.

>>18994876
There has never in the history of humanity been a polytheist philosophy that did not accept a first principle/substrate/monarchia. Making this the distinction between polytheism and monotheism therefore destroys any actual discriminatory insight.

I bet you're one of those mental midgets that think Plato and Aristotle were monotheists. sad!

>>18994908
>Can't refute
I rest my case. Don't you have some daily bread to go pray for?

>>18994637
Polytheism is a joke. Gods are merely archetypes for human personalities.

>>18994950
nothing more cringe than an archetype

>>18994910
>I bet you're one of those mental midgets that think Plato and Aristotle were monotheists. sad!
don't make a fool of yourself

>>18994950
>Gods are merely archetypes for human personalities
faggots like Jung should be erased from all human records for smearing traditional polytheism with their irreligious "Gods as acrhetypes" bullshit.

>>18994910
It’s still not polytheist theology you moron

>>18994896
> build off Heidegger
> Germanic gods
Didn’t understand Heidegger. Probably didn’t even read him.

>>18994894
And you think this is what constitutes “polytheist theology”? Philosophers who were made notes on theology and were proto-Christians but happened to be polytheists of their time?

>>18994988
>and were proto-Christians
kys

>>18994637
Anon...you don't...you don't actually BELIEVE in made-up pantheons, right? The Norse, Greek, Egyptian, etc.; they are all just fairy tales.

>>18994637
test

What “pagans” don’t seem to understand is that just about any and all pre-Heidegger traces of European polytheism are actually in the medieval Christian church. These people don’t even bother to read the vast amount of material on this, because they want some sort of based pagan morality and aesthetic and it’s totally fake.

>>18994966
Yes it is and everyone understod it as such all the way from Plato until Justinian closed down Plato's Academy for... *squints* spreading paganism.
>tl;dr you are gay
>>18994977
>t-they just don't understand Heidegger!
shut the fuck up nerd

>>18995002
Are you not aware of the “Seeds of the Logos” line of argumentation or are you just denying it?

>>18994811
It's like ppl who fell off into atheism havibg to make the same spiritual developments to eventually bring them back to Christianity as it solves all the contradictions inherent in it.

>>18995022
First of all, you didn’t even read Heidegger. So tell the truth. Did you? If you did, you’d know I’m totally right. Your other comment is also retarded. It’s literally not theology.

>>18994961
Archetypes =/= tropes. Jung's archetypes are very real, and very physical, they're just far more ideal than men. He's arguing that they are made of mindstuff AND physicalstuff.

>>18995024
Just a heads up but what you're arguing is a heresy condemned by the Catholic and Orthodox churches.

>>18994637
Test

>>18995018
What are you talking about? I have never met or talked to a pagan that doesn't think that the medieval Church preserved a lot of traces from European polytheism within it. But polishing the turd that is the biblical religion with European polytheism doesn't make it not a turd. It is a smooth and shiny turd most will readily admit that, but it is still just a turd.

/jRX2dATs
Join our new paganism server, all learners and believers are welcome.
Features:
-A channel where you'll find date converters and calendars for your faith
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-A politically neutral community without idpol shit, progressives and ethnonationalist LARPers are banned on sight
Abrahamic believers and atheists may also join, but they have to agree not to proselytize or disparage the faith of the members of the community

>>18995048
>Just a heads up but what you're arguing is a heresy condemned by the Catholic and Orthodox churches.
It is not. You don’t know what you’re talking about. Justin Martyr is venerated as a saint.

>>18995072
What are YOU talking about? You are clearly clueless and not here for help, but just to argue.

>>18995081
So are Cyril of Alexandria and Georgios Scholarios, but I don't see what that has to do with your argument that Plato and Aristotle were Muslims.

>>18995088
What was I supposed to help with?

>>18995097
The OP’s question. If you’re not interested in getting help, why are you here? To argue.

>>18995091
I never made that argument you lying weasel.

>>18995091
Oh fuck off you stupid LARPAGAN, Averroes and Avicenna were crypto-Christians and you know it.

>>18995121
Shouldn't belief in the One True God™ make you less insecure?

>>18995121
>>18995117
Ah, yes, the famous Trinity denying, Quran studying, Shariah jurisprudenting "Crypto-Christians" Avicenna and Averroes. My polytheism has blinded me, all these Gods swirling about have clouded my vision! How could I have forgotten about these two stalwart defenders of the Ecumenical Patriarch?

>>18995106
I am here to help. Hence why I have given recommendations and also refuted any attempts to slide in Christianity through the backdoor by appealing to its "polytheistic traces".
>>18995121
Aquinas set out to refute Averroism for its heretical pagan views.

>>18995171
To deny the presence of pagan philosophers in the early church is just blatantly disingenuous or poorly informed at best. The fact remains there is no such thing as polytheistic theology. To assert the contrary is simply not correct and whatever recommendations you’ve made to that effect will almost assuredly be worthless.

>>18995453
>aristotle and plato didn't know what they were talking about
>nor anyone in china, india, or japan
>some guy who hasn't even read the bible knows better than them, though
lmfao

>>18995524
I never said they didn’t know what they were talking about. I suggested that what we have from them is, in fact, not polytheistic theology. And it’s not. You seem to be one that doesn’t know what he’s talking about especially since you deny that these people were retained in the Church. If you have examples of “polytheistic theology” give them. Otherwise, shut up.

>>18995552
See >>18995524

>>18995555
Aristotle and Plato? That’s your answer?That’s your pagan theology?

>>18995573
Well, they're theologians... Who were polytheists... So... Yes, I would say that they were polytheistic theologians... Which means that they did polytheistic theology... So, yes, I would say that the works of Plato and Aristotle both constitute two separate polytheistic theologies.

>>18995584
If you consider Plato and Aristotle to be “polytheistic theologians” then I just don’t even know what I could say to get us remotely on the same page. You’re too far out there for me.

>no books on polytheism theology
>we edited or burned or made into palimpsests all of your books in order to control history

>>18995640
You might have some personal idiosyncratic definition of "polytheism", and perhaps even "theology, that no one else but you holds. You have not told us what your idiosyncratic definition of these words is, so all I can go off of is the normal definition of these words used by everybody else except you, including the Catholic and Orthodox churches that hold Plato and Aristotle to be polytheists.

If you want to let us in on your personal definition of "polytheism" and "theology", then by all means, go ahead. But until then, you need to not get upset when people refer to two men who believed in a multitude of divine entities and repeatedly stated such, and believed that the universe was not only contingent upon this divine multitude but that it was not only an act of basic rationality but also basic empiricism to determine this and repeatedly stated such, as "polytheists".

>>18995669
>You might have some personal idiosyncratic definition of "polytheism", and perhaps even "theology, that no one else but you holds.
Yeah, anon…I’m the one with odd terminological positions…

You said Plato and Aristotle were “polytheistic theologians” so if you stand by that, let’s just leave it there.

>>18995679
Fine by me, you're the one who started this by getting angry that people can't read your mind.

>>18995640
Don't know if you're trying to make some autistic point about theologians =/= philosophers then alright maybe Aristotle doesn't fit. But Plato was considered divine and his writings was considered authoritative on theological matters and if someone was to argue a theological point then they had to make sure they could justify and exegesis it out of his writings.

>>18995925
If what you get out of Plato is a theological discourse, or even a polytheistic apologetic, on the gods, then I’m not sure we could ever be on the same page. Still, if so-called “polytheists” want to read Plato, I say go right ahead.

>>18996085
>then I’m not sure we could ever be on the same page
Oh I'm certain we're not.
>Still, if so-called “polytheists” want to read Plato, I say go right ahead.
I will. Just like the polytheists did for a thousand years.

>>18996085
>If what you get out of Plato is a theological discourse, or even a polytheistic apologetic, on the gods
Oh you mean literally the pre-Christian interpretation of Platonism? Yes I imagine people could arrive at that conclusion.

>>18994637
Do you mean modern books on polytheistic theology? Or books on modern developments in polytheistic theology? Because Western polytheism hasn't had the time or numbers in recent history to have had any significant development, and most thought is still being dedicated towards reconstructionism (there are several different schools of thought about how best to go about it, but I don't think there's much literature on that). Since I'm not sure which you mean, I'll list a few that focus specifically on the theological thought underlying polytheism and are specifically meant to be applied by modern people in the context of reconstructionism:
>The Metaphysics of Polytheism in Proclus, by Edward P. Butler
>Essays on a Polytheistic Philosophy of Religion, by Edward P. Butler
>The Case For Polytheism, by Stephen Dillon

In case you meant modern books and papers that focus broadly on Western polytheistic philosophy, including theology:
>Proclus: An Introduction, by Radek Chlup
>[a paper available online] Plotinian Henadology, by Edward P. Butler
>Philosophy and Theurgy in Late Antiquity, by Algis Uzdavinys
>Temple of the Cosmos, by Jeremy Naydler
>Theurgy and the Soul, by Gregory Shaw
>On the Elusinian and Bacchic Mysteries, by Thomas Taylor

Other modern books that can help in understanding and adopting a traditionally theistic worldview:
>The Sacred and the Profane, by Mircea Eliade
>Summoning the Gods, by Collin Cleary

>>18996131
>Summoning the Gods, by Collin Cleary
Read his critique on René Guenon. I thought it was a disaster. I think the title of this book is absurd as well and only undermines the project. He seems to me some sort of ethno-nationalist who will just go to any lengths for apologetics on what he sees as authentically European, even if it’s totally flawed. I wouldn’t recommend him to anyone based on that essay.

>>18996128
> Even though neoplatonism primarily circumscribes the thinkers who are now labeled neoplatonists and not their ideas, there are some ideas that are common to neoplatonic systems; for example, the monistic idea that all of reality can be derived from a single principle, "the One".
> this is somehow modern polytheistic theology

>>18996085
“If a good man sacrifices to the Gods and keeps Them constant company in his prayers and offerings and every kind of worship he can give Them, this will be the best and noblest policy he can follow; it is the conduct that fits his character as nothing else can, and it is his most effective way of achieving a happy life.”
– Plato, Laws

"For in this way the god would seem to indicate to us and not allow us to doubt that these beautiful poems are not human, or the work of man, but divine and the work of a god; and that the poets are only the interpreters of the gods by whom they are severally possessed. Was not this the lesson which the god intended to teach when by the mouth of the worst of poets he sang the best of songs?"
– Plato, Ion

“If madness were simply an evil, it would be right, but in fact some of our greatest blessings come from madness, when it is granted to us as a divine gift. For instance, the prophetess at Delphi and the priestesses at Dadona have done Greece a lot of good, not only individuals but whole communities, in their madness, but little or nothing when they were in their right minds.
And if we are to mention Sybil and the others who, when possessed by a god, use prophecy to predict the future and have on numerous occasions pointed people in the right direction, we would only be lengthening our account with information that is already completely familiar.”
– Plato, Phaedrus

The relationship between mortals and Gods is one of the most important and pervasive themes throughout the majority of Plato's dialogues. It is the focus of Socrates' speech in the Symposium, it's how he chooses to end the Republic, it's the main underlying theme of the Phaedrus, it takes up a huge amount of the Laws (his longest dialogue).

>>18996251
You think this is theology? I’m being serious here. There is no question that Plato was a pagan. That was never up for debate. What is being debated is whether or not this writing that we have from Plato constitutes “polytheistic theology”. And that’s not a pedantic nitpicking over terminology by the way, but rather a totally obvious need to reconcile mutual premises. If you think this is literally “polytheistic theology” then I’ll say it again: we will never be on the same page. But read Plato all you want. I’m all for it. I don’t know why I’m still attracting LARPagan seethe.

>>18996211
I don't know about any of that. The essays entitled 'What God Did Odin Worship?' and 'The Phenomenology of Divine Presence' from the mentioned book stuck with me enough that I recalled it off the top of my head, but thinking about it I don't remember much else from it.

>>18996268
Yes, it fits the dictionary definition. The study of the internal nature, modes of activity, and distinctions in essence and energy of the Gods, and the mechanisms behind their interactions with the material world, is indeed theology.

>>18996245
>The One is one of many deities, but is the highest
>therefore it's actually three entities that are all the same entity but not
huh?

>>18996268
Well, Plato was a polytheist, and he was a theologian, and his theology is polytheistic, so he is by definition a polytheistic theologian and he wrote polytheistic theology. I mean, come the fuck on anon one of his big points about why Poets are bad is that they can say bad things about the Gods, plural, because the Gods are real. We're talking about a man who was a public worshiper of Poseidon.

I don't see why this makes you seethe so much. Anon already called you out on having some weird niche definition of these terms, so why not just tell us what they are? Here's your excuse: give us your weird niche definition of "polytheism" and "theology".

>>18996317
Taking bets now, he's either going to do something like
>"theology" can only refer to theories about yahweh
or he's going to get really autistic about anon listing off multiple polytheistic theologies because "polytheism" isn't just one religion.

>>18996371
I don't think he's even going to reply anymore.

>>18996394
I think by "theology" he expects a millenias-long progression of councils, heresies, and "irrefutable" ideas that have been extensively discussed by autistic scholastics and church fathers. Of course, polytheists have not had quite that opportunity

>>18996447
I think the debates and division between the Porphyric and Iamblichean schools on the minutia of animal souls, total or partial descent, theurgy and Henosis, and the subsequent synthesis of the two stream by Proclus kind of fills that niche. If we just call Porphyry a heretic, will he accept that?