/lit/ - Literature

>>18985382
I will never read anything from Beatniks after the disaster that was On The Road.
Meme movement

>>18985382
yes Ginsberg was a filthy jew nonce, tell us something we don't know OP

>>18985387
all art movements are meme movements

all gays are pedophiles.
when you praise gay writers youre praising a pedophile
hypocrites

>>18985419
>all gays are pedophiles
'all women are whores'-level incel take

>>18985441
>'all women are whores'

>>18985445
you need to go back

>>18985460
This is a bad take

>>18985382
/lit/ fellates the Greeks 24/7 but hates Ginsberg for this just because he’s Jewish

>>18985491
it was a different time

>>18985496
so you admit morality is relative to the era

>>18985509
Not him, but judging someone based on the times they lived isn't the same as saying morality is relative. I'm assuming you didn't actually mean to type "relative to the era" because that's such an obvious fact that has nothing to do with anything.
Anyways, I can recognize the inferiority of an antiquated morality without judging the individuals of that era based on this eras standards.

>>18985580
huh?
if its relative by era then you admit its just a construct essentially
that fuckin kids is only bad because its frowned upon in polite society

>>18985600
TO THE ERA
you fucking twit
Morality is not relative by the era. Please stop using words you clearly need more practice.
We know fucking kids is bad
They were taught otherwise, so we judge their morality but not their character.

>>18985509
>DUDE you can't consider the context that's inconsistent or something

>>18985613
>We know fucking kids is bad
because we were taught it, not because it's actually bad
basically it's only 'bad' because you aren't obeying your master

>>18985663
No, because we realized it. Granted through learning but that's beside the point. This is lit, if you don't understand the basic relationship between philosophy and civilization I don't know how to help you man.

>>18985460
Shut up you dumb normalfag.

>>18985668
>No, because we realized it
>progress
kek
muh philosophy indeed. all of your arguments are basically 'follow your orders else bad'

>Ginsberg was born into a Jewish
Oy vey, he din do naffin offica', they are jus goy boys afta all!

>>18985679
>follow your orders else bad

>>18985687
k enjoy being a slave
youre still not superior to anyone

>>18985679
>>progress
Go ahead and tell me exactly where the fuck I said progress, I'll wait. You see, you're supposed to start with the greeks not stop with them.

>>18985695
babies first worldview

>>18985445
So is your mother a whore then?

>>18985387
Based and self-respect pilled

>>18985382
Based

>>18985419
>>18985441
All gays are pedophiles, all women are whores, all men are rapists, and breeders give birth to them all.

Pedophiles are the most unjustly discriminated against minority by far, and public opinion is still deeply superstitious on the topic. The mere fact that the word is used to both denote attraction to minors and abuse of minors show how deeply problematic is the perception of them in modern society.

>>18985681
Holy shit Allen Ginsberg was Jewish???

>>18985387
Bad take. Of all the Beats, Kerouac was the best, because his original vision was religiously inspired (and he later repudiated Ginsberg et al). As he later said of On the Road, it was about two Catholic friends searching for God. Sounds like you got filtered.

>>18986903
It is a badly written book.
Everything else - the themes, the morals, the story - is secondary.

>>18986913
Explain why it's badly written without resorting to generalised phrasing like "it was a disaster", faggot.

Are you telling me the guy who wrote this was a pedophile?!

>>18986927
That would require me to download a epub and go through each of the stylistic flaw one by one, not to mention the structural errors (if one could even call it a structure). So no, I’m not going to do that, although I might reciprocate if you start by naming a few things that make it a good book. Nothing has been mentioned so far. Religion, search of god, travel story: these have nothing to do with the book being good or bad.

>>18985441
Wasn´t there some survey saying that 50% of fags have been sexually abused and that the rest had had sex with older men as teens and justified that?

>>18986984
The free-flowing style of the prose is one good thing that makes it a good book, as it conveys a sense of urgency that matches the narrative. Your turn, loser.

>>18986375
>breeders
woops, sound the alarm. we got another faggot who wont do the right thing and kill himself.

>>18987714
>The free-flowing style
>is one good thing
People like you deserve to be castrated. Not even the orators of ole used such a disgusting style in their narration.

>>18986591
I mean yeah, kinda, but also the shaming of them keeps people with the tendencies or attractions from acting on them by and large, and keeps it from being normalized in general society (like it had been by some societies in the past)
the real fucked up thing is how cyclical it is. if you get abused as a kid you're way more likely to be a pedo when you become an adult. it's some actual vampire shit. honestly i'm tired of vampirism being used as le fooni addiction metaphor, where's the vampirism as a pedophilia analogy at

>>18989200
>>18986591
Hi, professional degenerate here. Pedophiles are RIGHTLY discriminated against. Put simply, you don't put a shark in a goldfish pond.
The "mere fact" that the word is used to refer to both abuse of and attraction to minors is BECAUSE pedophiles are one justification away from abusing a child. They don't see it as an abuse, that's abuse. Pedophiles are abusers, whether they "offend" or not. It's such a slimy thing, referring to one as a "non offending pedophile". BEING A PEDOPHILE IS THE OFFENSE.

>>18985382
>humorlessness, vanity, anger and ignorance

>"what the fuck why do you want to fuck kids"
>"dohoho, why are you so humorless?"

>>18989501
agreed. the whole MAP shit and the "virtuous pedophiles" shit is just disgusting copium
shame that therapy and shit doesn't really work, though. just gotta hide it and hope you dont get found out
the truth always comes out in the end, though
is necking oneself the only solution?

>>18989548
While therapy doesn't work, it is my opinion that character building is what can "solve" the problem. Whether that's done through therapy or a public beating is up to you.
Like I said, I'm a professional degenerate. I've spanked my bank to some genuinely depraved shit (all legal as per 1A). And having been around other degenerates I've noticed that the ones that "go off the deep end" are invariably lacking in any sort of personal foundation that they can fall back on in the face of social rejection and moral turmoil.

>>18989567
where does fictional stuff like loli/cub land on the scale for you
hotly contested topic in the degenerate community

>>18989585
>hotly contested
>in the degenerate community
I don't think you have a good grasp on the degenerate community. It's only hotly contested in those nexus points where the degenerates and the normalfags both hang out.
But yeah, as per 1A is my stance on it. Does it involve a child? No? Then it's fine.
THAT
BEING
SAID
The people that get off to it are very much not fine. The day it becomes normalized is the day I start speaking in latin and wielding a fucking crucifix. Not in the least because the taboo is what I get off to. Fuck outa here with "all kinks are valid" bullshit, ITS KILLING MY HARDON.

>>18989607
>Between the idea
>And the reality
>Between the motion
>And the act
>Falls the Shadow

>>18989613
>Shade is a two faced friend
>In the heat of summer
>It provides a welcome respite
>Yet in winter's chill
>It hides the warming sun
I walk the line, not because I am weak but because I am confident in my strength to maintain the course.

>>18989567
At some point I used to think, pedophilia is a fetish, we don't choose our fetishes, ergo we shouldn't blame pedophiles for their fetish but encourage them to live with it, even if that means accepting the unfortunate fact that they are going to be sexually deprived by no fault of their own and that's bad luck.

The problem is, this relies on a simplistic definition of fetish as "relatively specific thing you are attracted to, innately and irreparably, from birth." Now that I have more knowledge of sexuality, including my own, I realize that things are much more complicated. I would definitely believe that humans have innate or effectively innate sexual TENDENCIES, for instance toward dominance or submission, or certain basic associations like filth=sexy. But now I believe that most of the higher, more developed forms of fetishes are really more like fantasies that have been routinized and associated with the innate tendencies for so long that they become effectively innate as well.

That is maybe harmless in some cases, but it's what leads to modern men having a long list of lame porn fantasies they always want to act out or they can barely get it up. They aren't simply dominant, they want to specifically ejaculate on your glasses or violently fuck you in a way that isn't even realistic, because they've jacked off to that specific scene in porn thousands of times over 20 years. Every man has some form of this now, and it sometimes leads them to treat their girlfriend like an interchangeable doll they are posing in sex. Or it leads to erectile dysfunction since their ability to enjoy normal visceral sex like a normal grug man has been replaced by overly stereotyped acts with overly abstract psychological content.

That's the normie version of it. Think of what a person has to do to get themselves to pedophilia land. For most pedos it seems to be a dominance fetish. Any guy can understand sexual dominance and power, but imagine how many barriers you would have to knock or wear down over years to be able to project your typical woman dominating fantasy onto a child. For the aforementioned process of association building to take place, the person already has to be either a sociopath or some sort of tranny degenerate who makes a virtue of transgression. Even then, purely selfish concerns like the desire not to turn oneself into a freak will still intervene. Think of how much of a sociopath degenerate tranny coomer you have to be to get through all that and build yourself up into someone who can say "I am a pedophile."

>>18986319
You keep on asking this, I keep on answering,
Yes. So are my sisters.

>>18989638
I started doing sex stuff with kids my age and people 2-3 times older than me when i was about ten. Also had early access to the internet so I went looking for stuff that had kids my age in it. Since I am a trve degen I ended up being more into loli/cub shit, hence why I mentioned it earlier, and I know
>kill yourself furfag
yeah yeah whatever
in any case I know that what happened to me was fucked and not acceptable but there are two things that are currently relevant now that I'm in my early 20s:
1. it's more nostalgia than anything for that weird and wild time when I was younger
2. there is a sub/dom aspect of it
3. when you're not the same age, people who are preteens/teens/literal children are absolutely insufferable to be around. unless you're a sick fuck who likes irl violent rape (not rapeplay) or someone on an Epstein level where it's all about the taboo and power of it, irl kids and teens quickly lose their appeal. loli and cub has a fantasy aspect to it that surpasses any irl stuff, and has the bonus of not harming any actual people.
i'm not excusing anything, and I feel like I've just shot myself in the head for even bringing this up here, but the topic is here so I might as well. i don't associate with a other people like me for the main reason of most of them are not ashamed or really understand that there's something completely wrong with them. so many vile fucks try to normalize it or act like the hate we get is comparable to homophobia/want to slide in with the LGBTQ community. it's absolutely not.
>but alphabet community are pedophiles
haha cool very epic and funny
in any case fucking kill me
at this point we might as well talk about Lolita too to keep it geared on litshit, although i suppose The Pedophile Problem is a form of philo discussion
>>18989633
>I walk the line, not because I am weak but because I am confident in my strength to maintain the course.
>pic

>>18989638
Yeah see, I'm of the opinion that a man absolutely chooses who he is. Just because we don't like picking up the chisel doesn't mean it's not there. We can choose to let the world forge us and to be a passive existence, but that's a choice all the same.
Effectively innate is in my eyes the same as "willfully ignorant".
Anyways, I don't really see what you're saying in the degenerate world. While reinforced fetishes are definitely a thing. What I see most often see in the people that get off on loli and the like is justification. Which leads me back to my whole point about personal character being the chief failing in the people that go off the deep end.
For instance, my path to degeneracy was something like this.
>spent entire early life hiding sexuality
>this conditioned me to associate the taboo with sexual pleasure
>find porn, and a wealth of exceptionally taboo premises to really butter my bread to
>as i slid deeper into the world of porn my justifications were consistent and principled
>thats hot, and nobody is being hurt so its okay
>thats hotter, and nobody is being hurt so its okay
>thats really fucking hot, and nobody is being hurt so its okay
So naturally, when I found myself in front of that barrier between fantasy and reality it was quite easy for me to see that any kind of justification for why these fantasies wouldn't be hurting a person if performed in reality would ring hallow and would fundamentally contradict my person.
No take this hypothetical, that I'm sure we've all seen in form or another
>same beginning as me
>approach the barrier between fantasy and reality
>its hot, and they like it too
>its hotter, and its not REALLY hurting them
>its really fucking hot, and i'll make them like it
You see, the big problem here is a lack of foundational character. A slope is only slippery if you aren't wearing a good pair of boots.
This is all ofcourse my take on the matter, but the matter of specifically a lack of character in modern man is not up for debate.

>>18989670
That's hot

>>18989718
See this is what I'm talking about, a nearly complete lack of character. The kind of person that's living their life and not creating it.

>>18989501
what is degenerate?. what you consider degenerate?

>>18990724
Committing or willfully fantasizing about
>violating the autonomy of another living thing
>violating social norms for the express purpose of sexual gratification

>>18990746
>violating social norms for the express purpose of sexual gratification
put examples

>>18985382
What's worse, pedophilia or necrophilia?

>>18990870
pedophilia, a corpse is fucking dead and a child is still alive

>>18990870
Agree with the other guy. Necrophilia is distasteful, pedophilia is evil.