/lit/ - Literature

>>18949021
Can I just be a Christian monk without affiliations?
Like a desert father in the modern world?

>>18949290
Sure, protestants can do whatever they want and still call themselves christians.

>>18949297
Haha very good.

>>18949021
>What is the most /lit/ way to discern monkhood & priesthood?
There is no "/lit/ way." Go talk to your priest you stupid LARPer.

>>18949290
You can;t be a Christian without being part of the mystical body of Christ. Much less a Christian monk.

priest living and spreading it
monk just lives it

>>18949290
Sure why not

>>18949290
Guaranteed 100% path to hell.

I want to be a monk but I'm married.
What should I do?

>>18949732
Then it is a temptation I think, because God allowed the responsibility of family onto you already.

>>18949732
Kill your wife, become a monk to repent for your sins.

>>18949021
Is this Fr Seraphim?

>>18949021
Looking at the thumb, I thought this was a skater holding his board sideways, wearing a cap and a jacket with bottoms

>Anons with experience on the paths, please answer.

Your asking chantards who don't even read that much

>>18949732
Third Order of Saint Francis (there also is a Dominican one)

>>18949983
And I should add that Dante was a tertiary of Saint Francis, so bonus /lit/ point.

>>18949021
The only way is prayer.

>>18949999
I am praying about it. I've gotten multiple signs, but I don't know if they are for sure what they seem to be (multiple unrelated people have told me that I should be a priest without me mentioning anything).

>>18949999
Blessed and checked

>>18949290
So a hikikomori but less fun? - at least hikikomoris have anime.

>>18950193
"fun" ironically isn't fun anymore.

>>18950095
this is why you require a spiritual director, it's dangerous to attempt to interpret signs on your own because that's how you-know-who gets his claws into you

What the fuck is the matter with you, you schizo faggots?
Is this a schizo thread, isn't it?

>>18950530
Yes, that's why I don't ascribe divine importance to the signs immediately. I still can't bring myself to talk to my priest yet about this.

>>18950193
>at least hikikomoris have anime.
What about becoming a monk in Japan? Do they accept foreigners into monasteries there?

>>18949021
Monks live & worship at the abbey, while priests usually belong to a parish. Some monks do leave the abbey for a bit and come back but that's mainly for academic purposes. Have a friend who became a monk and he left his abbey for a bit to go to Oxford actually.

>>18949021
Talk to a Catholic priest, who will point your towards a spiritual director. If you have real faith in Jesus Christ, if you feel he is calling you, that's really the only way. You can get a sense that you are meant for an interior life on your own, but actually making it happen requires help. You should be aware also that it isn't for people who merely want to escape the world; you MUST have faith, or the life will be intolerable.

An Orthodox priest would also work.

>>18950548
Why is not wanting to be a bugman schizo?

bump

>>18949021
Monks that get ordained become Hieromonks aka priestmonk. Not all monks get ordained, but all monks get tonsured and take up the yoke of Christ.
>how to discern
Hieromonks very often will sport the pectoral cross which an ordinary monk wouldn’t.

That being said, I’m a layanon and I wear a pectoral cross (under the shirt), and I’m sure some might have a problem with that. But I don’t care, I wear a big cross because I have a lot faith.

>>18950566
Yep they do, as long as you are genuine.

>>18950566
Here's a documentary about an American guy who even became an abbot https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L61o34CCmmo

>>18951287
>Zen bugreligion
Anon...

>>18951287
Arh he's not the abbot guy - there's another documentary about an american who became an abbot

>>18951301
>reee
Ok so?

>>18949290
The Desert Fathers were all active members of the Church, they weren't "non-denom", "non-affiliated"

>>18949290
a monk is a brother not a father, you are not ordained

>>18949983
>>18950648
The monk in OP's picture is an Orthodox monk, OP is talking about Orthodox monasticism. Your apostate "church" is not in discussion here, fuck off.

>>18951335
>your "apostate church"
t. member of a church in schism with itself who condones contraception, divorce and remarriage (only up to 3 times, 4 is sinful!), and can't convene an ecumenical council (or decide which ones are ecumenical)

at least you get cool robes lol

>>18951330
Monk's can be ordained as priests, also. (This is from a RC perspective, not sure about Orthobros)

>>18951335
ortholarper detected

>>18949290
You can't be Christian without affiliations, much less a monk.
You need catechesis and the Holy Sacraments before you can even consider the monastic life.

>>18949999
Blessed and, dare I say, breadpilled

>>18951335
I'm also Orthodox but that's a bit mean, Roman Catholics are still Apostolic even if they lost their way

Why do not all monks become priests?
Do hieromonks usually get ordained and then become monks, or the other way around?

>>18951470
Not him but thanks for the robe compliment. They are gift from above. God is good, all glory to God.

>>18951565
>You can't be Christian without affiliations
How does that even make sense?
There wasn't even an established Church let alone a variety of denominations when Christ was alive.
How can you enforce affiliations to man-made organisations?

>>18951470
and for all their problems they're STILL in better shape than the roman church is

sad

>>18952106
>There wasn't even an established Church
what did he mean by this

>>18952106
>man-made organisations
The Holy Spirit is not a man. Neither is Christ in the sense of being a created man.

>>18951470
>and can't convene an ecumenical council (or decide which ones are ecumenical)
As it should be.

>>18952106
>There wasn't even an established Church

>>18950095
read Philokalia, but don't practice whats in there without the guidance of a priest, preferably an elder monk.

>>18952171
He is obviously referring to the current institutions as they exist today. The established Protestant, Catholic or even Orthodox Church weren’t a thing.

>>18949290
Christianity is a social religion.

>>18952485
One of those three institutions was started by Christ himself, anon.

>>18952559
Jesus wasn't real.

>>18952564
What a silly assertion.

>>18952479
If you can’t find a spiritual elder, the Philokalia fills in that gap more than adequately. I encourage people to read it and seek guidance as well, but not everyone out there actually lives up to the true depths of the Philokalia’s God inspired teachings.

>>18952479
Would it help me in my discernment just by reading it?

>>18952106
>There wasn't even an established Church

cmon man

>>18952559
you ended that guy, anon

>>18952106
>There wasn't even an established Church

>>18952485
Yes it did. Read the Didache and Apostolic Fathers.

>>18952559
So it is claimed

>>18952106
People doubt this, but I am curious as to what this anon got wrong. There was no established Church at the time of Christ? Are these Christ-anons laughing at him because they are thinking about the Jewish church and traditions? The Pharisees, Sadducees, and Essenes?

Or Matthew 16:18? His point still stands, the church with all of its saints, writings, councils and list of "heresies, anathemas. and sins" was not even in conception. The early church was decentralized and fraught with heresies.

>>18951908
Such ostentatious robes paid for by donations of fools! All of these bells and smells to inspire faithfulness to the church are a gift from God? Why does God only shower His material gifts and passing, worldly riches on the employees of the Church? Why not the poor, who they should be feeding instead of plating altars in gold and decking themselves out in fancy garbs?

Surely you think they are providing for the poor, but they could do much more without the constant monastery-building and rich, powerful appearances. Or it's all a psychological theatre carefully tailored for the followers.

>>18949021
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oCt_LiCPJfQ

>>18953995
This is literally what Judas said. God deserves reverence.

>>18953360
How did that one old man become bishop of 3 different churches

>>18954669
>all white people look alike
Quit reappropriating our jokes!

>>18950095
it's because you're a retard that they said that lol

>>18951470
>t. member of a church in schism with itself
As has happened several times in history, always to be resolved.
>who condones divorce and remarriage
The Church has always allowed divorce and remarriage by virtue of it's economy since the time of the Apostles on down given that certain criteria are met. The Catholic stance on marriage was an innovation, not even one you truly believe because Rome dishes out annulments like candy which are in effect the same thing as a divorce.
>and can't convene an ecumenical council
Is this supposed to claim that you need the papacy to call ecumenical councils and decide which ones are ecumenical councils? Of the first 7 ecumenical councils 0 were called by a bishop of Rome and 2 weren't even attended by the bishop of Rome.

>>18951516
>being part of a religion is larping
Absolute state of you

>>18951470
>>18954876
The bit about ecumenical councils and divorce was just you drooling on your keyboard having literally no idea what you're talking about.
You want to talk about schism though? Let's talk about schism. Let's talk about how Rome allows Miaphysite churches who schismed away from the Church for their heresy in the first few centuries to join Rome without having to change their heretical doctrines at all, only having to recognize Papal supremacy to be reconciled. Let's talk about the Eastern Rite uniates who venerate Saints like Gregory Palamas who BTFOd Rome are allowed to join Rome without having to change any of their doctrines so long as they recognize Papal supremacy. Your entire "church" is built upon a single doctrine - papal supremacy - and holding that supreme to everything else you allow all sorts of crazy heretics, as you would see them, to be members of your "church" so long as they just bend the knee to Rome. Your "church" is an absolute joke.
Oh, and by the way enjoy your Novus Ordo clown masses. Revel in the Pope declaring the SSPX to be schismatic and the beginning of the phasing out of the TLM. Enjoy fleeing to a Byzantine Catholic church where you will have to venerate the Orthodox Saints who dedicated their lives to refuting Rome.

>>18954925
>roman catholicism is idolatry
Nice argument you got there hombre

>>18954997
>the best reply he can come back with
Absolute state of you

>>18954876
>Is this supposed to claim that you need the papacy to call ecumenical councils and decide which ones are ecumenical councils? Of the first 7 ecumenical councils 0 were called by a bishop of Rome and 2 weren't even attended by the bishop of Rome.
how can you be aware that the papacy is a political invention of latter centuries and still cling to Roman Catholicism lol

>>18955026
>absolute state of me
3 charitable words a gold tooth and a silver tree

>>18953974
All these Christian larpers here outed themselves as phony with their lack of knowledge of the birth of Christianity as a religion.
Pretty funny.

>>18951908
>That robe
>The gold
Ahhh Clearly the spokesman for a carpenter spiritual teacher who preached the power of poverty, charity and abstinance

>>18955100
>carpenter
The gospel proclaims that Jesus Christ is the Logos of God incarnate, Lord of lords and King of kings. Fathered by the Holy Spirit and mothered by the ever virgin Mary the all Holy Theotokos of the royal lineage of King David. Nowhere, does the gospel proclaim otherwise. Jesus the Christ is royalty. Carpentry is for the lower classes like us.

>>18952106
Damn, better tell Paul and the other apostles they failed

>>18955100
>spiritual teacher
Christ is not just some spiritual teacher, He is the High-Priest of the New Covenant (Psalm 109). Also look up the instructions Christ gave for garments of other high-priests in Exodus.

>>18955100
He never preached the power of poverty, just that the poor are to be loved and treated fairly. The only poverty Jesus advocated was poverty of spirit a.k.a. understanding that you aren't righteous. Of course he also preached not making wealth your aim but that's different than advocating poverty.

>>18955151
He was a laborer in his human life. All that you said is true but he became poor for our sake so that we can share all that wealth (2Cor. 8:9)

>>18955395
>the instructions Christ gave for garments of other high-priests in Exodus.
>Christ gave in Exodus

>>18955762
Whatever happened to the fugacity of material possessions and internal asceticism? How can one serve two masters- how can one focus one's life on the gathering of wealth and on God? What use is it if you've won the world through the loss of your soul, even if it is for charity? Why add the temptation of wealth when you can give just as readily and virtuously from the little you have (Mark 12:41-44)?

It's almost like you're forgetting the entire history of early Christianity, the desert fathers and ascetics, and you're just trying to excuse the excesses of the modern church with tenuous OT connections.

I mean, it's almost a fucking business at this point.
https://www.money.ro/averea-bisericii-ortodoxe-depaseste-3-miliarde-euro-1/

>>18955151
Yes, a spiritual king, not Caesar. Inflating His title with epithets doesn't justify the absolute lack of humility of the church; humble is what it should be, not stuffed with expensive artwork and architecture (and for what reason is it so?).

>>18955762
Surely He did not refer to material wealth, but "spiritual wealth," or else I take it you're a follower of Kenneth Copeland?

>>18954298
>He did not say this because he cared about the poor but because he was a thief; as keeper of the money bag, he used to help himself to what was put into it.

Yes, and God deserves all of your hard-earned money and land so that He can look down at the poor and starving from a beautiful, painted icon. God deserves reverence, but you can revere God without any money or property. Judas' problem was that he was a hypocrite actually unconcerned with the plight of the poor. But in Romania, we have 18,300 churches and 760 hospitals, approximately. So much for symphonia and modesty, and they keep building even bigger and better (like Catedrala Mantuirii Neamului).

>>18955951
>>Christ gave in Exodus
Who gave it then according to you?

>>18955951
>not stuffed with expensive artwork and architecture
So much this! I hate how the evil god forced Solomon to build the lavish temple and Moses to ornately decorate the Tabernacle and the Ark of the Covenant!

>>18955951
>they keep building even bigger and better (like Catedrala Mantuirii Neamului).
oh wow that looks nice
hospitals will always be ugly no matter what

>>18955762
>He was a laborer in his human life.
Perhaps, He certainly became poor for our sake by putting on our flesh. The gospel says He labored by preaching, performing miracles and speaking in parable. He advocated for discoursive labor by letting Martha know that by listening to Him speak Mary’s labors held more merit than Martha’s worldly labors. I forget which father it was, but he also said that “a monk’s alms is spiritual advice”, since many monks live off alms and don’t have the means to give materially. Their labors include prayer, ascetic struggles, and spiritual discourse. Personally I am of the opinion, that the greatest good you can do, the seed that bears the most valuable fruit, is studying the scripture and the fathers. Forgive me if I sound like I’m defending lounging around, I certainly do believe in working with your hands and not for the sake of income, but for the sake of taking care of necessities. But as “strangers and exiles on the earth“ and “citizens of heaven” who’s natural state is Adam’s before the fall, I’m going to have to agree with the Lord with what He said to Martha regarding Mary.

>>18956086
What verse are you operating based on?

>>18956097
That's what God specifically commanded the Israelites in the OT to do; He did not command them to do what Christ teaches- not eye for an eye, but forgiveness. Not destruction of cities, children and animals, but avoidance of violence and love for one's enemy. Feeding one's enemy, even.

Besides, who were the Israelites going to donate those riches to? They needed to use those for God's purpose; they needed to be the hammer to the Gentiles, the takers of Canaan and all that jazz. Their morality is of a different spirit than Christian morality, although there are some similarities.

>>18956111
Because nobody builds anything beautiful anymore, not because it needs to be like this. But of course, we need to build Hagia Sophias when Constantinople is falling around us. Why should we build beautiful schools and hospitals when we can have large, unnatural cathedrals? I'm sure those drunks will find the beautiful icons edifying, and I am sure the poor we were supposed to provide for will have their hunger and nakedness satisfied by that stone tumor.

>35 For I was hungry, and you fed me. I was thirsty, and you gave me a drink. I was a stranger, and you invited me into your home. 36 I was naked, and you gave me clothing. I was sick, and you cared for me. I was in prison, and you visited me.’

>I wanted to see massive buildings in the same Byzantine architectural style, and you fulfilled my hankering

But I know you're just being cheeky and triumphalist. No problem, nobody would take you seriously beyond 4chan.

didnt Augstine retroactively refute monasticism?