/lit/ - Literature

It's not that geniuses no longer exist, it's that there are so many of them that nobody actually stands out.

>>18916515
That's retarded. The incentives and culture is different is the problem. The Romans were retarded compared to the Greeks. Culture.
Romans valued the concrete and practical, shit like engineering, thus Roman science and philosophy fucking sucks. Culture. We have an academic culture that's absolute cancer. Bunk studies, 0 reproduciblity (science), academic welfarism, grant-whoring, broken peer system, publish or perish, etc.
The Early 20th century has proved disastrous for art. Almost all of it is degenerate and\or ugly and\or distasteful for some reason.

>>18916579
Post book recommendations

>>18916501
They're on Twitter.

Maybe genius would exist if you motherfuckers stopped shitposting and actually read books

>>18916501
Kanye

>>18916588
My IQ is not high enough to produce a work of genius. I think at most over my entire life I could produce something decent

>>18916579
Nigga, you need to touch grass and scoop sand. Plato dismissed all representative forms of art (as did Marx). The replication crisis concerns the "soft" sciences. Your entire outlook is the byproduct of social circumstance, everything is ugly because you're ugly, anon. Now, how you gonna make a hoopty clap ass if you can't spot'em got'em like a Guv? Touch grass.

>>18916612
I have a PhD

They work in STEM now.

Kanye West - Donad

>>18916501
If Ancient Greece had had 4chan, youtube, and internet porn, we wouldn't have the works of Plato.

You are begging the question. You won't consider anyone a genius without the patina of time, so naturally no contemporaries appear as geniuses to you.

>>18916501
They're too busy wageslaving.

>>18917088
These people at the time were considered geniuses though so you're just a fucking retard

>>18917224
This, no time to be brilliant when you are opressed by modernity's yoke and sucking cock in your office cubicle 9-9, 6 days a week

>>18917224
Partly this. Ever since I've been alive I've been pelted (by conservative parents) with the idea that going to college for the arts is pointless, gay, and a waste of money. That's probably how it is for many kids who have potential to be geniuses in the field of literature, art and music. Instead we become engineers and accountants and lawyers while wanting to kill ourselves. Some of us work in software but at this point it seems the industry would rather hire a hundred indians than a handful of smart white guys. And lets face it, only white men can be geniuses. No offense.

>>18917056
We would. It would just have been written exclusively in greentexts.
>Implying there is no such thing as absolute beauty

>>18917309
I bet if we look into your life and the lives of 90% of people interested in art they have plenty of free time but they spend all their time on the internet and watching TV. What the fuck are you doing right now? You could be painting or writing. You aren't working.

>>18917319
>90% of people
I'd say that's a gross over exaggeration. Yeah I'm a neet now and have plenty of time but most people have to work like slaves and I pity them. The ones with artistic properties get one chance during their midlife crisis but by then it's too late. Lets face the truth, to be a true genius your parents need to 100% support you in every way from the beginning, but parents have been fooled by the jew into shoving their children into office drone jobs. Most of us are latchkey kids who've never even had one sincere conversation with our parents in our lives.

>>18917319
this is also a fair point, I daresay unregulated internet/television/media access has destroyed thousands of potential talents. My flatmate is particularly bad for this, not that he's a genius or unusually brilliant but wastes vast swathes of his own time just frittering it away on Youtube watching stupid random shite and being a bit pathetic (complaining about being tired/not being bothered to do anything today). I love the guy but gee whizz not a particularly fruitful environment to share, I have such urgency to do things, anything man, even just read a book.

>>18916501
>books on the concept of genius
Kant's critique of judgment. But Kant would disagree with being called a genius

>>18916501
I have this
http://polymatharchives.blogspot.com/2015/01/the-inappropriately-excluded.html?m=1

>>18917344
Sorry your life sucks.

Most people didn't have your shitty life though. Don't assume so.

>>18916515
Reddit

>>18916622
>Nigga, you need to touch grass
everyones such a faggot these days its amazing

>>18916501
Geniuses now are only geniuses when they work in a lab. Everyone else with talent is probably on antidepressants. The arts are dead. Everything is dead but scientific research amd scientists are completely immoral.

>>18917559
40% of children in the US are born out of wedlock. It is the situation for the overwhelming majority.
>>18917349
The most depressing part of watching a relative die young was that they always thought they were going to become a writer in retirement, but were given such little time to live after diagnosis that there wouldn’t have been enough time to finish anything even if they’d started immediately. They just wound up getting extremely depressed and watching movies/tv from their childhood. I had to go through all of their shit when they died and their writing wasn’t even bad.
If you don’t do it now, you’re never going to do it.

>>18916501
A 145 IQ score is genius. Plenty of them around, they just dont have enough leisure time to pursue anything outside of work because they spent all their mental powers selling out to the jew all day

>>18916501
>Mozart, Kant, Shakespeare, Da Vinci

Susumu Hirasawa, Stepehn Meyer, Edward Yang, Mitsuo Iso. In that order.

>>18917590
>40% of children in the US are born out of wedlock. It is the situation for the overwhelming majority.
39% of the 40% are black people who were never going to make art anyways

>>18917583
>Everything is dead but scientific research amd scientists are completely immoral.
expand on this.

>>18917554
>>18916501
I remember reading an article in a local newspaper about a polyglot STEM graduate in his 40s, lifelong unemployed, who tore his eyes off while in church

>>18917614
Wrong

>>18917640
Wow I didn’t know I’d made the news

>>18917604
Ok let me eloberate on this, Music has evolved and is still filled with genuises from My Bloody Valentine to Captain Beefhart, Rock music alone has produced as many genuises as Classical Music, probably a lot more.
Science is the new philosophy, and there are still many genuises, the problem is that the problems are a lot more complex and, the layman just can't get into it, you need to be a genuis yourself to understand the stuff Terrance Taw and George Pelerman do, while any 120 I.Q can understand Kant if they try hard enough, there is also Philosophy of sceience where people like Stephen Meyer come in.
Shaekspear, film has replaced theater and there are many genuis filmmakers, from Yang, to Kaufmna, to Lynch.

Painting, there are still talened people who can do all that baroque stuff but I honestly beleive animation is the new painting, the stuff that people like Richard Williams and Mitsuo Iso pull off is pure genuis.

>>18917654
>>18917654
Davinci couldn't do this if he tried, now explain why I'm retarded.

Internet, public schools, scientism, materialism, liberalism and egalitarianism have destroyed the genius.

>>18917641
Unmarried when White means together but not married. Unmarried while Black means no father. Post the stat on fatherless households.

>My Bloody Valentine
>genius
>comparable to Mozart
making music that sounds like you put a structurally boring pop song next to a nuclear reactor isn't musical genius no matter how badly you want to fuck Kevin Shields

>>18917614

>>18917654
>George Pelerman
Grigorij Perelman

Jew btw

>>18917681
Holy fucking cope.

>>18917721
That's not what I asked for. Unmarried woman means different things. You want to look up fatherless households and also think about the proportion of the population.

>>18917744
It's statistically true though. 64% of Blacks live in a single parent household and it's only 24% for Whites

>>18917797
You’re either being intentionally obtuse for the sake of argument or actually hopeless as a human being.

>>18917739
Say what you will about our hook-nosed friends, they get things done.

>>18917805
>getting raped and beaten by a strange man is better than not having random dudes in the house
Cohabiting with anyone but the biological father is worse than not cohabiting.

>>18917808
I'm not obtuse at all. Marriage doesn't mean you're single. The statistics are fatherless households which show the true number for what's relevant to what we're talking about.

they get censored and ignored. con artists (like Elon musk) get promoted. look at Christopher langan for example. with music its just that unironically garbage gets pushed. peoples senses are being worn off and they cant recognize good music. this includes metal, rock,jazz, not only pop. smaller actually good artists dont have a chance outside their niche circle. its a world of deception, you should've realized that by now

>>18916579
>The Early 20th century has proved disastrous for art. Almost all of it is degenerate and\or ugly and\or distasteful for some reason.
Yeah, what ever could be the reason? Hmmm... truly a mystery...

>>18917820
It's not a stranger retard. It's the two biological parents who don't want to get married yet. Even still all the data shows having a father figure is what's important not being biological.

>>18917224
That's retarded.
Mozart was poor.
Bach was a wageslave.
Dostoevsky was desperately poor.
The problem is we don't have a culture that values artistic merit or cultural excellence. In fact the very concept of art itself is virtually non-existent in the contemporary west beyond a backwards looking sense of loss. Everything is either an explicitly capitalistic enterprise or a dismantling of previous cultural forms.
All of our cultural output revolves around iconoclasm, destroying barriers, or making money.
Compare the waltz to our cultural dance form, flopping your big disgusting nigger ass on camera. It's not just that it's a more primitive (and thus stupider) form of expression, it's aggressively cynical. Everyone seems to have agreed at some point that merit and art is not worth preserving and we should mock and degrade ourselves instead.

>>18916501
They are at work wageslaving lives for money.

Videogames are the modern artform and the highest artform, you should be looking for genuises there, you'll find plenty.

>>18917894
>monotonous skinner boxes are an artform
This is like a group of rats discussing which laboratory cheese maze has the most artistic value.

>>18917867
This, it's a cultural nihlism which is a sewer in which goodness is out of place

>>18917832
He meant the early 21st century.
The early 20th century was literally La Belle Époque, the last period of artistic flourishing for European civilization.

>>18917906
>I never paly videogames but let me tell you how every videogame is farm ville.
>Videogames aren't art because I say so.

Get filtered

>>18917894
fake and gay

>>18917867
What's the next step?

>>18917947
I'm OP and I agree video games are art. I had a sublime experience in VR greater than any other piece of art but that's irrelevant. The one problem with video games is that it's not the work of one man. A video game is the work of hundreds of people working together and there is no single person who can be said to have created the game. It's the problem you see where the best game devs who made a great game can never recreate the success later.

>>18917947
If you were hoping to dazzle me with your meme list you will be disappointed, I've played most of the games in that image and my opinion remains wholly unchanged. 99% of video games are junk food dopamine dispensers.

If I were in the mood to be charitable, the only game there I'd consider to be remotely approaching art is Ikaruga, and that only because it's designed to be performed repeatedly in the same scripted way, so much so that you could almost consider it more of a play than a game.

In any case, I'm not interested in getting bogged down with the old "are video games art" topic because for me the answer is quite conclusively no and it's honestly not even an interesting conversation for me.
>>18917965
Civilizational death. Read Spengler.
There's a reason why the vast majority of the youth in the west have overwhelmingly embraced African American culture, who were traditionally an underclass. It's a way of implicitly rejecting the previously dominant culture and everything that was associated with it. It's quite similar to the Roman matrons associating with destitute proselytizers and converting to Christianity, almost out of nihilism and boredom.

The harsh reality is that these artistic cultural forms are totally outmoded and practicing them is a form of absurdism

I'm suddenly reminded of when professional athletes are honored for their careers and as part of the ceremony a statue or bust of them is made.

Leaving the quality of the work beside for a moment, what happens is there's always this awkward moment where the player stands back and politely pretends to appreciate what he is seeing for a few seconds, and then tries to dispel the uncomfortableness with a comical pat on the bust's head or something.

That moment exemplifies the state of artistic output in the west currently. It's all outmoded cultural forms that people recognize but have no appreciation or understanding for anymore. Like if you want to be a writer for example, you have to accept that this isn't Victorian England and there isn't this massive audience of people who are able to appreciate literary merit. The audience just isn't there.
There are people who engage with literature and produce literary output, but it's an extremely niche activity that is constantly shrinking. It's a dead medium in a sense and the same can be said for all the traditional cultural forms of the west.

>>18917797
That's not what you said either
>>40% of children in the US are born out of wedlock. It is the situation for the overwhelming majority.
>39% of the 40% are black people who were never going to make art anyways

>>18917822
>this includes metal
Tools are great
Gojira too

>>18917272
>what does the word 'you' mean

>Where is the Mozart, Kant, Shakespeare, Da Vinci of today?

>>18918279
>>18917924
>>18917913
>>18917867
>>18917822
>>18917709
>>18917672
>>18917309
>>18916579
>>18916501

>>18916501
Midwit: the post.

>>18918374
Give him time, he will discover Meshuggah and Art Melody sooner or later

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sikgX6Sf8Yg

>>18916622
>this entire post

>>18917739
Fake quote.

>>18916515
>it's that there are so many of them that nobody actually stands out.

Rather there are so many but they cannot get nearly the same social currency and exposure that social media retards, twatters, and 'influencers' get without having some 'quirky' personality or being able to entertain the dumb masses. Ironic considering this current technological age yet the noise to signal ratio is awful. Back in the day you could have the great scientists conducting 'science' battles in public - who could pull off the most entertaining spectacle with modern technology (or something they invented), who could prove something, who could do the most impressive surgery etc. Nowadays technology and health and safety demands have changed and the vast vast majority are rather more concerned with some stupid social media triviality to occupy their attention.

>>18918786
Doesn't matter

Geniuses do still exist, we just won't know who's great enough to stand the test of time until we're already dead. Also, if you aren't aware of any contemporary works of genius crafted by generation-defining artists, you are a dumb pseud who hasn't looked hard enough. You're clearly more interested in appearing cultured than actually engaging with a culture.

>>18918960
>if you aren't aware of any contemporary works of genius crafted by generation-defining artists, you are a dumb pseud who hasn't looked hard enough.
All I have to do is type "Name some" and watch as this guy doesn't reply and the thread archives

>>18917654
>Rock music
Rock "music" is pure nihilistic garbage and the greatest rock "musician" is not worth licking the boot of even a shitty great composer like Schoenberg. It is the lowest musical art form man kind has ever created and its rightful place in musical history is not even in the garbage bin but the shitty pile of garbage that's to shit to put into a garbage bin. It has absolutely 0 musical merit and even some rap music is better. Rock music means NOTHING, says NOTHING, and is a pitiful waste of anyone's audio faculties.

>>18916501
"The Decline of the West." Cultural potentials are being exhausted. The "genius" becomes null and incidental.

>>18919010
what if there was a rock song that wasn't nihilistic? would that change your mind?

>>18919010
(You)
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-----------(The filter)

>>18919032
No. It's still trash

>>18919035
>imply rock has a filter
Every teenage white kid in the western world goes through a "classic" rock phase and often continues to enjoy more modern rock or goes into rap. If you enjoy rock then I'm sorry to tell you but you're a normalFAGGOT

>>18916501
>Genius
I feel like the death blow for that term came with the so-called "genius bar." Now genius means to sell out to some soulless company in Silicon Valley; and we now have soul instead, and that's really only something you can get outside or on the fringe of a corporate hellscape, which almost by definition is going to take some time to make the rounds and let itself be known. Also the influence of said soulful geniuses is going to take some time to shake out, so we won't exactly know who was right or whose works are going to stand the test of time for a while afterwards. But they're out there, I'm certain of it.

>>18919041
If you were born 150 years ago you would be a normalfag for listening to classical music.

>>18919048
Classical music was never for the masses you plebian swine. They just listened to each other sing folk songs, drinking songs, and popular hymns.

>>18916501
IT'S CAPITALISM, BAY-BEE

>>18918982
Well the only art I'm really interested in studying genuinely is music, specifically jazz music, so I'll give some examples from within that sphere.
>Jacob Collier
>Miles Oyazaki
>Tigran Hamasyan
>Herbie Hancock
>Darcy James Argue
>Reginald Chapman
>Maria Schneider
>Robin Eubanks
>Branford Marsalas
Now obviously I have a bias towards trombonists (because I am one) but every one of these people is creating beautiful and original music in the world today. Miles Oyazaki actually just put out a really exciting guitar book with a lot of exciting theoretical concepts relating to the construction and visualization of chords. I've only gotten into reading academic music theory very recently, but if you're interested in that I can give a few more really interesting examples from within living memory.
>The Lydian Chromatic Concept - George Russell
>Inside the Score - Rayburn Wright
>A Chromatic Approach to Jazz Harmony and Melody - Dave Liebman
>A Theory of Harmony - Ernst Levy
>Belá Bartök: An Analysis of His Music - Erno Lendvai

>>18919081
People from all classes went to the opera. Some shows were FOR the rich and some were FOR the lower class.

Weininger detailed the condition of genius very well.

>>18919127
Even still that's only one genre of classical music and only those living in large and rich cities. Remember that up until the last century or so most people lived in small towns and villages.

>>18918374
based and keyed

>>18919102
>Jacob Collier
opinion discarded

>>18919162
It's fine not to like his music, but you're dumb if you can't acknowledge he's a once in a generation musical savant.

>>18919010
Electronic music is the true nihilistic garbage. no skill required and it's literally computer beep bop sounds sliced together. Not to mention all the """sampling""" which is literal theft.

>>18919183
Being better than a community college music theory student doesn't make you a genius

>>18919102
>implying jazz is not the mark of the pseud

>>18919194
Lol he's better than anyone who's graduated from Berklee, Julliard or Curtis in the last 20 years. His work playing with tuning and microtonality is incredible, the likes of which has never been done before, at least not in a way that's palatable to the average listener. Are you a musician, or a salty /mu/ poster?

>>18919236
No music is pseudery if you engage with it sincerely. Different genres are just different aesthetic scenes.

>>18919241
He should have learned soul instead of music theory because his music is soulless

>>18919241
just to know where you are?.
is this great and generation-changing?
>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mJR6XSSKi-g

>>18919255
Define soul

>>18919253
>implying choosing the aesthetic scene of jazz is not the mark of the pseud

>>18919272
Can't teach soul sorry

>>18919277
i fell for it. good bait

>>18919290
It's not bait. Some people are just soulless. Usually the ones who have a hard time understanding the concept

>>18919262
I don't like his lyrics, but his composition and performance are beautiful.

>>18919262
It's alright, definitely good, personally I find the bitchtier vocals annoying though. Everyone thinks they're listening to the greatest thing ever and their opinion is the only one that matters. Biggest mark of a pseud.

>>18919301
I think you're mistaking a conversational approach to singing for an objective measure of musical quality, which is telling me you don't know what you're talking about.

>>18919311
i dont usually laugh, but i lol here in my room, alone. your concept of beautiful is fucking horrendous. everything is subjective but i really cant think how someone can say that is beautiful. and apart from that, this is not generation-changing in any fucking place. trite as it is. there is no spark, no innovation, nothing. you are too stuck in jazz. enjoy it.

>>18916501
Hey now there was that Jewish girl who flew into space and took a selfie of an active black hole

No one is going to recc The Genius Famine?

>>18919317
I'm not an expert on music theory so I don't know if it could actually be explained but soul is not something that simple. I don't know if you could explain how something is dry and lifeless using music theory. A good way to think about it is this image. On the left is a raw image file of a picture before any color grading. The photo on the right is after it is color graded. Someone might like the photo on the left because they're incapable of understanding how lifeless the photo is without color but you would be incapable of convincing them that something was missing. It's like they're living in another world. You understand?

>>18919321
Please, show me some beautiful music

>>18919343
This isn't a very helpful example, what's some music that has soul in your opinion?

>>18919344
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Iqe2mb9W2hI

>>18919349
It's not a helpful example??? You literally proving me right. You are incapable of understanding the difference between the two pictures.

>>18916501
>Any books on the concept of genius
Otto Weininger - SEX AND CHARACTER

>>18919321
Listened to the first two artists listed, seems to me like anon is the type that gets a little too involved in theory at the expense of... I don't even really know. I guess soul, for lack of a better term. It's intricately composed, I will say that. If that's what you like then fine anon, don't let me tell you otherwise. But to me, music is about having different ends than pure technicality. It's really to hit the feelings that mathematics, philosophy, literature, cuisine, etc. won't. Technicality is kind of an afterthought. Herbie Hancock is pretty cool though. I like Herbie. You might check out Flying Lotus actually if that's what you're into. Herbie did a collab with him on "You're Dead!"

>>18919357
I love the ending, but operatic vocals have always annoyed me. The cleaner modern style of singing just sits better for me. Wagner's brass writing is unbeatable of course, one of the best to ever do it.

>>18919041
>Every teenage white kid in the western world goes through a "classic" rock phase and often continues to enjoy more modern rock or goes into rap.
>>18919035
Friendly reminder that this is rock
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zg2076b5Lqc

Writhing and embraced
Retribution, soul eclipse turns solid
Energized
Sucking vomit, acting like its honey
Deprived of I
Falling while thrusting squares through circles
Serving one single new dimension


Terror rising
Agnostics' nemesis
A prophet of extinction

I scorch the skies before your very eyes
My deliverance
Enslavement labelled love

Just trust this, nemesis, to sign and seal extinction

>>18919386
Flying lotus is cool, I like him. Miles Oyazaki I was questioning whether or not to put on the list, but I just heard about his book and he was fresh on my mind. I'll argue against Collier haters until my dying breath, though, I don't understand how people can't feel what he plays.

>>18919361
Of course i understand the difference between the two pictures, but you haven't given me any soulful music to compare Jacob Collier to, so I don't know what the difference actually sounds like.

>>18919415
>I'll argue against Collier haters until my dying breath, though, I don't understand how people can't feel what he plays.
I get it. Just a difference of taste.

>>18916501
The concept of genius is flawed, because it gives the impression that there is something that makes those artists inherently superior to other humans, which they are not.
Leonardo da Vinci wasn't even the best painter in his city, Mozart's works represent total decadence compared to Bach, much of Shakespeare is mediocre. However, they all produced great art now and then, and that art has been a source of pleasure and consolation for centuries, which is why they have acquired their status.

So the question is: so far, did we have people producing great art in the 21st century?

Yes, I can name names:
- Novel: Krasznahorkai, Lobo Antunes, McCarthy, Bolaño, Sebald, Handke, Pynchon, Banville, etc.
- Poetry: Adunis, Simic, Carson, Transtromer, Hill, Ashbery, Bonnefoy, Luzi.
- Theater: Jon Fosse.
- Cinema: Tarr, Kiarostami, Wenders, Herzog, Godard, Sokurov, Polanski, Lynch, Ming-liang, Kaurismaki.
- Music: Arvo Paart, Reich, Glass, Penderecki, Ligeti, Boulez.
- Painting: Kiefer, Nerdrum, Barceló, Rego.

What changed? Consumer culture. Nowadays, the only people who receive any attention are YouTubers and tik-tokers. Great artists, however, still exist, it's just that they aren't noticed anymore.

>>18919431
Correct

>>18919386
>intricately composed
this is intricately composed, really?. then why it feels like a jazz version of mario bros music?. >>18919262

>>18919425
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lI5ORDi7yOs

Because everyone is busy simplifying themselves down to the lowest common denominator of humanity. Greatness used to be assured by the fact that people strove for it in the face of all obstacles. Now we do and celebrate the opposite.

>>18919431
All of the people I know who you posted are 20th century men who are 80 years old and still making art. Doesn't really count. You would have to post someone of this generation.

>>18919446
I searched his name on youtube and clicked the first result, which had like a million different musicians all playing at the same time going in and out of the piece.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nspqYGz-Z1s

>>18919474
>how this is not a coca cola ad?.

>>18919452
Fair enough, Billie is a much more fun singer. Legend. But I'd still rather listen to Collier, because the music itself is much more interesting and fun to listen to. I've actually played this arrangement of all of me, and as an instrumentalist it's extraordinarily boring.

>>18919495
>Intricately composed

>>18916501
Spengler

>>18916515
no

>>18916622
Idiot, Plato and Marx were unironic elitist banker shills. Plato dismissed art because he was advocating for a totalitarian NWO-styled society where humans very micro-emotions are managed. Not for any serious or non-material reasons.

Of course post-war 20th century art is fucking hideous. The 20th century soul is fucking hideous and disconnected from God

>>18919344
the beginning can be a notion of something beautiful to me.
>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jgbp5h_l0ic

>>18917867
>all the geniuses were poor
this is literally a spook myth

Mozart was a filthy rich freemason from a spook family, as was Dostoevsky. Bach was a church organist from a long line of musicians so that's a bit different

>>18919513
intricately performed is not the same as intricately composed. that music is simple as a wheel

>>18919518
This is good, I'll need to check this album out. Not usually a big emo guy tho.

>>18919535
Semantics.

>>18917654
>unironic populism
Holy fuck. This has to be bait. The most reddit thing I've ever seen posted on here

>>18919535
You have no idea what you're talking about lol.

>>18919515
>Of course post-war 20th century art is fucking hideous. The 20th century soul is fucking hideous and disconnected from God
Kek
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F2V9yqfXIf4

>>18919550
beyond cringe

>>18919548
its a fucking cover for gods sake.

>>18919474
Lmao holy shit this is trash

Anything mired in "irony" is not art

>>18919573
Yes, and he arranged it to be much more complicated than the original. Do you know what an arrangement is? It's a type of composition where an already existing piece of music is essentially recomposed. Did you not notice the crazy rhythms in the opening, the full orchestra, the piano break where a guy literally holds up a card with all the crazy chords being played?

>>18919472
Are you joking?
It is nearly impossible for an author to become internationally recognized before he's at least in his 50's. By 1950, Borges, Beckett and Nabokov were very little-known, yet 20 years later they were regarded as the best living writers.
Anyway, Joshua Cohen is 40, Mathias Énard is 49, Ben Lerner is 42, William Girladi is 47. But I confess I have not read their books, only one or two things here and there, and it looked good. Maybe they will become as good as Pynchon in 20 or 30 years.
Harold Bloom already considered Cohen and Giraldi great novelists.
Those are just the ones I researched. There are many, many others, including some whom I know just by name, such as Enrigue (57), his wife Luiselli (38), Tao Lin (38), and others. I have no idea if they're good or not.

As for the other arts, I do not know many names, but I simply haven't researched. I am pretty sure that if I do research I will end up finding a few good artists, and maybe one or two extremely good ones who look like they might be recognized as geniuses in the future.

>>18919611
The thing is not merely being good but being a genius who will last 500 years in the future. It's possible these guys are that but I really doubt it.

>>18919596
gimmicks desu

>>18919596
a rearrangement in a work is still not a composition. but is a technicality. you can call it composition within a composition if you want. anyway that video and music is absolute trash. sounds and feels like a soulles corporation uniting the world. really disgusting the phony and plastic "good vibes" this transmit. at least to me. you have to aquire taste, even if it had a hypercomplicated music in it (its not) you have to see the big photo. this is horrible and predictable and stupid.

>>18916501

Reality is not anime. Geniuses are not really that exciting in reality. We have books, films, anime etc that show us superhuman geniuses. The real genius is impressive in its own way but their brilliance is merely normal. Recognized geniuses are all without exception wraped in a cloud of fiction to make them more exciting. If they lived nowadays they would feel just as normal.

Geniuses only receive recognition in their own small bubble of the few people that can truly understand why they are genius.

>>18919628
>It's possible these guys are that but I really doubt it.

Have you read their books?
Anyway, Shakespeare's contemporaries thought the same. I am not saying Cohen is Shakespeare, but I can easily see him being considered a very important novelist of his generation.
Also, much of what has lasted 500 years is frankly uninteresting (for instance, a lot of Petrarchis poetry during the Renaissance).

>>18919678
>Recognized geniuses are all without exception wraped in a cloud of fiction to make them more exciting. If they lived nowadays they would feel just as normal.

That's entirely true.
I think Geoffrey Hill was a better poet - no, a WAY better poet - than Lord Byron, but if you looked at this guy in real life you'd think it's just some normal person, which as a matter of fact it is indeed, but when you look at a painting of Byron he has an aura which normal people lack. As you say, it's all fiction.
That's probably why people can't accept that writers of talent like Joshua Cohen (or, if not him, some of his contemporaries) will still be read in a few centuries from now. However, they will, and there probably will be some kind of aura surrounding them too, even if it's of a different kind. Time does that to you. Even as you age and your hair becomes white people tend to accept it more easily that, maybe, you are a very fine artist, and they think twice before calling you a fraud.

>>18919681
I don't know much about Shakespeare was there no one who thought he was a genius? No one who idolized him? No movements following him?

>>18919669
>>18919642
I need to stop arguing about music on an illiterate book website. Have a nice day, none of you stupid faggots know as much about music as I do :)

>>18919717
No.
I mean, his friends and Milton held him in high regard, but the same can be said about those authors I mentioned, they are held in high regard by their peers too.
No one idolized him and there were definitely no movements following him, as bardolatry only started centuries after his death.

>>18919712
sell me on joshua cohen, anon. i don't trust other people's opinions online.

>>18919722
you are defending music of commercials. you are the same fake spirit. wow, a cover of lionel ritchie with millions of people playing it, this is pure art... what a genius!...
go to your echo chamber cultured "jazz is life" reddit mindset trash where you probably live.

>>18919749
I am not going to sell anything, I haven't even read his books, only a few pages which seemed to me very well-written because of the surprising ways he uses words and the memorable sentences he wrote here and there. Harold Bloom considered him the top Jewish writer since Roth.
I am simply mentioning Cohen as an example of one young writer who is talented. There probably are even better ones, but I do not know them because they aren't American, rich, famous, praised by Bloom etc. How many Finnish writers do you know? How many Arab ones? Maybe there is a genius there, but I simply don't know.

>>18919531
>as was Dostoevsky
Dostoevsky had a crippling gambling addiction and Turgenev often lended him money. The Gambler was literally written to pay off gambling debts

Translating from "Dostojewski Marito", Anna Grigorievna Dostojewski, ed. Bompiani, 1939

Baden Baden
After a week, F.M. lost all the cash money. We devised ways to get money somewhere to keep on playing. We had to pawn our stuff. [...] I remember one day F.M. came home with a wallet full of 20thalers bills, 4300 thalers total.[...] He took twenty bills and lost them on the spot. He came back to get some more, and so on for 2 or 3 hours, until he lost everything. [...] we then wrote a letter to my mother, asking for money, which we waited for impatiently. The moment the arrived, that day or the next day, they were lost again.[...]

>>18919712
All books from the last 50 years will be burned by the enlightened book burning society of the future, especially any books with "cohen" written on them.

>>18916605
dangerously based

>>18919669
>sounds and feels like a soulles corporation uniting the world. really disgusting the phony and plastic "good vibes" this transmit. at least to me. you have to aquire taste, even if it had a hypercomplicated music in it (its not) you have to see the big photo. this is horrible and predictable and stupid.
>>18919759
>you are defending music of commercials. you are the same fake spirit. wow, a cover of lionel ritchie with millions of people playing it, this is pure art... what a genius!...

I agree 100% btw. The dude has skills (i did not watch the whole video of course) but if this is what is using them for...eh. I mean, other people at his age were doing this
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3i8-agWJqP0

>>18919550
I know Steve Vai is a guitar virtuoso and the song is alright but I don't see how this one in particular is "genius" as the youtube comments say it is.

Everyone is so quick to throw the word around about anything they like. I feel like it's for their own ego, if they like a genius it means they can recognize a genius, which is an indirect self compliment.

>>18919840
Hahahahahaha your rebuttal is Metallica? Fucking normie

>>18919565
I feel sad for you :(

>>18919759
He's revitalizing pop music and making it interesting again. People complain about "the same 4 chords" and simple accompaniment all the time, but the fans of pop try to justify it by mentioning intricate arrangements, textures and recording techniques. Collier, with his 4 Grammys, has completely disproven that defense by keeping the complex production while writing complex music. He's making every other pop singer look like a retard, and that's a good thing. 100 years ago, pop music was big band swing, a genre categorized by fast changing chords, improvised instrumental solos, and arrangements of songs with rich harmonies and interlocking melodies. The majority of pop today is the bullshit commercial stuff we all hate, but Collier is subverting that, and the fact that almost every serious young musician in the world adores his music means that he'll probably have a huge affect on the music of the future.

>>18919866
>ah ah, metallica!
No, it's Cliff Burton. If you know anybody else who was able to play bass like that feel free to post it.
>>18919848
I agree that the world gets thrown out a lot. Now ask yourself, how many people play guitar in the world? And how many are able to do what he does? Mind you, this is not only about skills, is about dedication and envisioning. Vai practice(d?) 12-15 hours a day for decades. Maybe if I did the same, I'd be on his level. But do I have the patience? Do I have the passion to do so?

What kind of music do you think old composers would be making today?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VBezMA7PL7c

>>18919712
Any recommendations for specific poems by Geoffrey Hill?

>>18919907
>The majority of pop today is the bullshit commercial stuff we all hate, but Collier is subverting that
Then how is it that he sounds exactly like a coca cola music composer as another anon pointed out?

>>18919907
stop reading whatever you read to mimick this insipid text as it was your ideas. what kind of notion of subverting you have to put this shit michael buble-like guy as an example of subverting anything?. you are completely clueless. this guy moves in the american´s got talent vibe, its so hideous that i only pity you that you cannot see it in a simpler way.
that "all night long" video cant be an example of nohing good and you should know why.

>>18919908
>>18919907
i think you have a very mechanical and somewhat empirical view of music. this isn't a bad thing, but continuing this argumentation will only keep us spinning in circles.

>>18920024
Don't throw me in the same basket with the collier fan, please. Until 30 minutes ago I had never even heard his name

>>18920078
ah my sincere apologies to you then, anon. there was a certain logical continuity between your posts so i assumed it was the same person.

>>18920120
On a side note, there's a useful line from a RAC/Oi! band named "Dente di Lupo", song "SHARP" about music like Collier

>La tua musica di mmerda che non provi sentimenti
>Your shit-ass music devoid of feelings

I mean, Oi! is shitty music too but at least it inspires some feelings

DdL have been banned by youtube btw, can't find their music anywhere

Hate for Breakfast are still up though (Right wing HC) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pKlVdnAkqT0

>>18919919
Whatever you can find. He wrote little and everything is good.

>>18919769
>I haven't even read his books

>>18916501
The geniuses still exist today, they're just less celebrated. Partly because the masses are completely out of touch with art and those who truly care and understand them are few and far between.
Either way, every medium has their geniuses. And no genius is ever perfect in their craft.
Even for literature you have modern standouts like Bolaño or Antunes, never mind film or music.

>>18916501
>Mozart, Kant, Shakespeare, Da Vinci
It's all entertainment. They were popular because they're entertainers. Stop focusing on people instead of cultural movements, dig deeper into the backgrounds of these people for a start.

>>18920634
>kant
>entertainment

>>18916501
Same reason heroes don’t exist.

>>18920694
>>18916501

Heroes and geniuses exist, and they are typically one and the same.

Not knowing of them, does not mean that they do not exist.

>>18916501
NASA.

>>18919509
i dont know if dwelling on techincal jerk offs has any merit, its kind of niche and exclusive
mozart could be appreciated both by geniuses alike him that understood him completely and the common man, he just expressed beauty that encompassed the whole human spirit
i dont know how you can compare jacob collier to him in that regard
im not the guy youve been talking to btw, just landed in this thread

>>18917709
Who are you talking to?