/lit/ - Literature

Manga in Theory and Practice by Araki

>>18883412
thank you, fren
do you think being familiar with the western canon will enhance my writing?

>>18883440
Reading is one of 4 pillars of writing, and by itself does almost nothing. The answer is "Not by itself." There is a reason even Berserk is shitty writing.

>>18883440
Definitely
But you should also read stuff like Bettelheim, Aarne–Thompson–Uther Index, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Seven_Basic_Plots, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Hero_with_a_Thousand_Faces, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Thirty-Six_Dramatic_Situations, etc

Haven't read a single one of these, but I'm sure they will help you

>>18883461
>There is a reason even Berserk is shitty writing.
Argument invalid

>>18883465
Berserk is written worse than a Marvel film, literally.

>>18883487
Absolutely filtered

>>18883440
I honestly could not tell you.

>>18883465
Berserk is like a study on how not to pace something and how shitty work ethic fucks you. It should be shown to writers as a cautionary tale alongside Germ

>>18883398
Look up advice from your favorite mangaka so you can write more like them
>>18883487
One of the worst opinions i've ever seen desu

Fundamentally, what you’re doing with manga is 1) writing fantasy but with drawings replacing words and 2) scriptwriting since manga is really a collection of still shots. My guess is you’d find value in books on writing fantasy and screenplays or scriptwriting.

>>18883501
Yes, terrible writing and characters filter me. It seems you're filtered by Marvel films. The Suicide Squad is better than the entirety of Berzerk.

>>18883510
Average funnybook film is outlined and has a beginning, middle, and end. This immediately makes it better than something with a stumbling plot that goes nowhere and is constantly inundated with distraction.

>>18883398
I'm guessing you can't draw for shit.

>>18883398
Understanding Comics by Scott McCloud may help you to understand the intellectual side of panelling, framing, and action sequencing - though these could all be grokked by simply having a high amount of exposure to comics and analyzing how a comic conveys a particular effect via its usage of the format or by experimenting with comic form when drawing.
Also comics are basically film storyboards but with way more detail, so look into storyboarding. Due to being a visual medium which portrays fiction as well, it is irrevocably tied to plays/theater, so look up any book on screen and playwriting. Reading plays themselves might also do you some good so as to get a feel for dialogue, how long scenes can go on for for general audiences, etc.
Realistically though? If you're trying to publish a "manga", it's not gonna happen as an English speaker unless it's on pixiv and you have extremely good art to overcome the strange high standards otaku have, and even then you'll most likely be able to publish those at local comic conventions and push a few copies there. Breaking into the Japanese market at a bare minimum requires one to be able to speak and read Japanese, it's just how it is, which is why you get those cases like Youjo Senki, Honzuki Bookworm, etc etc being written by non-Japanese-born non-Japanese, and you'll notice those are books, not manga. If you really want to try the quixotic task of publishing a "manga" in Japan, you'll need to know Japanese.
Also post art or GTFO.

>>18883440
Manga writing is about churning out extremely surface level plagiarism of western aesthetics plus booba and power level wankery at light speed. Having any taste or a habit of in depth analysis will obliterate your chances of success, but the good news is that if you cannot see this already you're probably too stupid to accidentally develop any.

>>18883574
>to overcome the strange high standards otaku have
the only standards of otaku are conformity to their shitty format because they're autistic
if someone wants his burger to have the shitty artificial taste of a Big Mac he doesn't have "high standards" he's just accustomed to a specific flavor of garbage food to the point he's entirely loyalized to it. weebs do not have any standards, they are completely enslaved. they have the same standards as a tranny's standards on women as he thinks he looks like a girl when he's wearing a tutu

>>18883517
>sexy punk slut is better than the God Chapter
Whatever, man :)

>>18883615
This.
Berserk is just a rip off of Hellraiser, and a rather unapologetic one at that, routed of Hellraiser's tension and horror and a Shonen protagonist shoehorned in.

>>18883669
Are you talking about Hellraiser 2? I thought they retconned out the IoE/Hellraiser 2 chapter?

>>18883615
This pretty much.
However, the rare exceptions are some of my favorite pieces of media bar pretty much nothing

>>18883680
>Berserk is just a rip off of Hellraiser
Oh, if only you knew how much research Miura-Sensei did...
There's Bosch, Escher, Giger, studying medieval armor...No idea how he did this pre-internet.

Anyway, absolutely filtered
I'll go sunbathe and drink a glass of wine at your ignorance and to honour Kentaro-San.

>>18883657
You're most likely right. It nevertheless will not convince these types who want to see pictures of Reimu, Rin, or Remilia to go look at any other kind of art from any other cultural sphere. Believe me, it's an exercise in futility.

>>18883714
Godhand is cenobites. Behelits are laments. Idea if Evil is leviathan. Griffith is Dr. Cranham, and the list goes on. The way he did it, pre-internet, Lil Zoom, is this thing called a library and this other thing called a encyclopedia.

>>18883714
Omg... Escher and Giger? They are so secret. Nothing has ever referenced these two either... at least as far as I know. And Bosch too? Never heard of the guy, but I bet there aren't tons of people that have done similar works... he's like Donatello DaVinci.

>>18883714
Seething weeb lmao.

>>18883740
Ideas are a dime a dozen. It's the execution that counts and Miura executed berzerk as close to perfect as I've seen any comic book do.
golden age-end of conviction is 10/10 and the rest is still like an 8.

I'm gonna shill this artist I follow on twitters book. It's a pretty decent introduction to the theory and praxis of manga.
https://howtomanga.gumroad.com/l/BijNH?recommended_by=search

Be warned though, he's extremely ESL and relies a bit too much on machine translation in the english version, but it's readable.

>>18883768
Berserk is one of the worst written "literary" comics ever. It's literally shonen with gore and rape to make pseuds feel better about themselves. Alan Moore's mediocre works (and there is a lot of it) has greater attention to detail allusions than that.

>>18883768
The execution of Berserk is a joke. Half the arcs are dogshit and the overall story spins its wheels. It's a masterclass in how to not plot with zero destination and to set long term goals. Conviction and Black swordsman are good, Falcon of the Millenium is meh, and Fantasia and Golden Age are shit.

>>18883784
I will go even further and say that only Black swordsmen feels true and new.
In golden age Guts is killing 100 men and cutting Giant monster arms despite being "muh struggler". Extremely tryhard and shallow.

>>18883797
I'm rating these not as literary work, but as sickblack grimdark Shonen with good drawing.

I’m an artist and writer and I also love manga. Part of me feels like manga is just Japanese capeshit, targeted largely at teenagers, incapable of talking about anything actually important, not much better than Western comics but then another part of me has a handful of manga that I just love so much. I don’t really know what to do with this.

>>18883714
>studying medieval armor...
>>18883398
>plate armor pierced by fucking arrow
Yep.

>>18883872
make something better than those handful of manga you love

>>18883907
Those are crossbow bolts look like. I mean, who gives a fuck, it's literally a cartoon for teens.

>Berserk has a fantastic story
...
Did you ever actually read it? Some of the ideas about demons/archdemons/astral world are cool but the actual story is pretty terrible with really bad pacing, inconsistent tone, etc.

There’s a manga making general on /ic/ with recommendations but it’s probably worth mentioning there that many seem to think it’s not important if you can write Japanese. If you’re trying to get your manga published I think your chances of doing so without being able to write in Japanese are almost zero. Translation services tend to just not cut it. That might change in the future but for now I think that’s how it is.

>>18883907
Those are clearly crossbow bolts, you fucking idiot.

>>18883512
>>18883872
Manga isn't just fantasy or fighting. There's manga about everything.

>>18883615
That's not what manga is like at all. Why do people make up things like this?

>>18883463
I don't think most good fiction writers/comic artists actually read about these kinds of things, they're only really useful as a tool for analysis.

Read Monster

>>18883740
>Godhand is cenobites.
I never said the opposite
>The way he did it, pre-internet, Lil Zoom, is this thing called a library and this other thing called a encyclopedia.
You absolute ignoramus. I'm not a zoomer, and tell me exactly how do you just stumble upon Götz von Berlichingen while browsing a library. You can't just type "cool armor for my manga character" in an archive, much less in Japan

>>18883752
Just dwell in your haughtiness forever. I'm sure you immediately recognized the Great Mosque-Cathedral of Cordoba here, yes?
>>18883764
>b-buzzwords!
Berserk is the only manga I read.
>>18883907
>Angels, monsters, demons, fairies, golems, krakens, giant swords, armors that suck your blood, godzilla with a dick-tongue,
>i-it's unrealistic! Arrows don't work like that!
???
>>18884446
Probably true, still better to have one more tool and not need it etc.

>>18883752

>hating berserk

>>18884659
talkinga about mangaka tracing everything they can like the worst chink factory workers will fall on deaf ears, weebs are completely enslaved. they trans-national weeb tranny does not care about truth, he lives in his fictional world where Japan is the end goal and whenever Japan appears to be mediocre they will adjust truth in order to keep worshiping Japan. Weebs are so cucked by hentai and moeshit that they ended up worshiping the worship of Japan even more than the hentai they worshiped at first. Weebs are single-handedly the worst, most faggy, most cucked and self-hating kind of American that disgraced the world, and of course there is now this overlap between normal weebs that are not only weebs but also trannies. These are the ultimate self-destroyers, the ultimate and most compete trannies, the übertrannies.

>>18884713
weeb site, go to reddit.

>>18884713
Jews cause trannies and then come on 4chan to blame it on anime/manga.

They do this literally every day on lots of boards. It's organized, purposeful activity.

Read manga pre-Tezuka and post, helps you understand his (and by extension most modern) paneling techniques better. Is Berserk any good? Been planning on reading it for a while but never got the time.

>>18884725
You are worse than the actual trannies. soibois, including the trannies, are less of a tranny than a weeb. You have completely abandoned your national identity, your culture, the West, you have abandoned it all to be a Japanese tranny. The actual tranny is a tranny but at least he believes in America. You should understand than being a tranny on the scale of a human being is much less of a tranny act than being a tranny on a continental scale. Do you understand how much of a tranny you are? You do not only deny your genitals (although many of you also do that, in total self-annihilation) you deny your entire surroundings, which shaped you in turn. All that is left of you is a pasty skinnyfat retard. How does it feel to be worse than a tranny who for how butchered and disgusting at least retains his geographical sense of self and his sense of history and the inherent worth of his country - which he is destroying for the very reason that he desires to see change in it, while you abandon it shamelessly, and all in a supremely ironic twist to identify with people who have the tiniest dicks of all mankind?

>>18884768
I'm south american, lmao retard.

>>18884771
cope harder, it's the same shit

>>18884768
Jews cause trannies and then come on 4chan to blame it on anime/manga.

They do this literally every day on lots of boards. It's organized, purposeful activity.

>>18884786
are you seething anon? because I said the truth?
You will NEVER be Japanese.

>>18884810
You jews know nothing of the truth except how to invert, distort and deny it to serve your agenda.

>You will NEVER be Japanese.
Why do jews keep saying this completely unprompted? Nowhere did I say or imply in any way that I wish to be Japanese.

>>18884768
Is this what /pol/tards actually believe? The epic and based fascist nationalist Ezra Pound wrote an entire book on
Japanese theatre and wrote in Chinese kanji.

>>18884874
He's not from /pol/, he's a jew.

>>18884882
>>18884874
>>18884834
grasping at straws so fucking hard lol

Do you plan on doing your own drawing or do you just want to write the script?

>>18884894
No, jew. I did no such thing.

>>18884713
>schizo rambling
Not sure why you're quoting my post, but ok, I guess (?)

>>18883505
>shitty work ethic
Miura was basically killing himself for 31 years to produce it. He was working 7 days a week, 12-15 hours per day.

>>18885114
I didn't know that, this is some Steve Vai-tier dedication

>>18883740
>Griffith

he´s a lame version of Alexander the Great

>>18884653
cope

>>18885223
>posts even one more source of inspiration
>somehow this disproves my point
Have a nice friday night

>>18885223
A lot of this is grasping at straws, and the sword pose at the bottom is an old anime trope called the Obari pose.

>>18885247
>>18885253

damn it weeb, at least if you were self aware enough, you would notice that berserk is a second rate copy of the things it inspired, you aren´t that smart

>>18885223
lol

>>18883398
Dont go into writing a manga like youre going to write a manga
Instead imagine youre writing a grand novel and then transfer it to manga shit
Im so tired of the forever circle jerk of ideas in anime and manga bros

>>18885263
Dumb pedo.

>>18884483
Even worse pseudshit

>>18885295
stop projecting and read more books

>>18885301
There was no projection. You're a pedophile.

>>18885312
i love mature women, i´m having an affair with one rn


you´re the pedo here

>>18885263
>w-weeb!
I already said Berserk is the only manga I read. My sister likes one (1) Metallica song (feel free to guess which one), that makes her a metalhead according to your logic.
>berserk is a second rate copy of the things it inspired (sic)
Ignoring the grammar abomination, no, it just isn't.

>>18885337
You're a pedophile and you're projecting.

>>18885355
lol, schizo

>>18885361
The fact that you're a pedophile doesn't make someone else a schizo.

>>18884692
I don't hate it but I do hate how it is considered some masterclass in manga. Cool artwork, cool demons, but really bad pacing and the story kinda meanders around, doing almost nothing in 100 chapters.
My takeaway is that manga is not literature, since even the best ones are pretty mediocre when you aren't taking the artwork into consideration

>>18885364
i don´t know why you think that, you´re just butthurted weeb pussy piece of shit

>>18883398
everything above + aristotle's poetics
with all that you should be able to hammer out something interesting

>>18885374
I don't know why you think I'm a weeb. You're just a butthurt pedophile pussy piece of shit.

>>18885367
Agree. I think it’s overrated and it’s carried largely by its edginess, which alone doesn’t make it good

>>18884786
>Jews cause trannies and then come on 4chan to blame it on anime/manga.
I have absolutely no idea where you are getting the first part of this but if you still haven't noticed the insane correlation between the consumption of anime (mainly moe but still) and transgenderism you are living underneath a rock.

>>18885382
anime pussy

>>18885397
You're a jew. You're the ones who spread trannyism, and then you come here to blame it all on anime. You do it every single day at all hours, relentlessly, non-stop.

>>18885409
Pedophile.

>>18885410
I can promise you that I am not jewish. You should go back to pol

>>18885419
this weeb should be put to in a psych ward, deranged lunatic projecting his own perversion to anonymous persons on the internet

>>18885425
I didn't come here from /pol/, jew.

>>18885428
You're a pedophile and should be put six feet under.