/lit/ - Literature

There's only one other time-period book written by a Persian that would be considered for a lit class, and that's 'The Kite Runner.' you lucked out, bro.

There are, naturally, a ton of novels from that time period but the dilemma is to get them in English.

>>1888054

Graphic novels can be good, they're shorter than normal books, and they have pictures. We could get into fine points of the good and bad to the medium but when it comes down to it its just that a medium which has its own peculiarities.

Persepolis is a particularly good one, you'll have fun.

>>1888054

Also I suspect you will find that the standards in college are far lower than you've been told.

you are reading this book not because its some supergreat work of eternal art but because it will give you some background on Iran, which is a major international issue for the US and the academia feels that the public needs a rounded out understanding of what we are dealing with. There is a decent chance that the US or its allies will be in some sort of armed conflict with Iran in your lifetime.

Read it with the politics in mind. And like mentioned above, you lucked out, cause its short.

In the past few years, the 1980s push to get comics recognized as a valid artistic medium has finally caused universities to pay attention to them. This is good because comics are a capable outlet for expression, and people who look down on them as juvenile tend to be either ignorant, or too old to think otherwise.

That said, I don't think they should be taught alongside novels or plays in an English Literature course. Entirely different disciplines.

A freshman in college? You're lucky you're reading anything at all.

>>1888082
>There is a decent chance that the US or its allies will be in some sort of armed conflict with Iran in your lifetime.

>>1888085

well i guess i am a tad ignorant towards graphic novels, i've personally never read one, and all the ones i see people reading seem to be anime or something along those lines. That being said, i am diffidently willing to give this a shot. I guess the stigma surrounding graphic novels is making it hard for them to actually be considered literature.

But I show my friends my required reading and they all think I'm in some retard English class :(

>>1888098
>hasn't read Watchmen
>hasn't read Asterios Polyp
>hasn't read From Hell
>hasn't read Maus
>hasn't read Understanding Comics
>hasn't read The Sandman
>hasn't read A Contract with God

>>1888098
Get used to it.

I went to a university that is semi-famous for all things literary, and just about every lit class had some element of the comic book. Higher education is being dumbed down, because professors know that a majority of their paying students cannot even be arsed to read the texts.

You know what the kicker will be, though? Prepare for this, chum: the most lively and talkative discussion your class will have this semester will be the day(s) you are to discuss that comic book.

I just hope you have a scholarship and aren't actually paying for the course.

>>1888110
sorry bro
I've only been an avid reader of actual literature for like 2-3 years (read a lot of crap when i was younger, choose your own adventure story's, SoUE, ect. then was too cool to read my early teenage years)

so i have tons of great books to get to, slowly but surly

>>1888115
eh i have a couple little scholarships, they cover most of tuition, but not room and board =/

hello student loans!

>>1888110
It's like not everyone is a comics nerd!

I took a lit analysis class & we did Fun Home. I didn't like the story much, but it's really cool to do close readings of comic panels where you study both the text & the drawings. Then again, I'm an English major & art minor, so putting the two together like that made my day.

>>1888144
>not reading The Brothers Karamazov, Bleak House, Gravity's Rainbow, or Moby-Dick
>it's not like everyone's a novels nerd

>>1888150
Yes, exactly, it's like being that guy except you're complaining about an even more niche interest.

>>1888160
>niche interest
>caring about the popularity of things

>>1888166
It's cool to like unpopular things but less cool to act all shocked if someone isn't familiar with whatever you happen to be an expert on. Come on dude, this is basic human behaviour.

>>1888170
>caring about what's "cool"

OP you're a complete fuckwit for placing any kind of judgment on a medium you know absolutely nothing about. My mother has heard of Persepolis for fuck's sake.

Regardless of whether or not comic books have as much merit as standard literature (and they do, no form of artistic expression is superior to any other), the fact that you had completely dismissed them as rubbish for all this time infuriates me. What a genuinely intellectual person would have done is read some and form his/her own opinion rather than be swayed by public ignorance. You are only adding to literature's snobbish image that is putting so many people off reading today. Fortunately you seem willing to fix this. I suggest Watchmen, Jimmy Corrigan and Maus. Those are a good start.

>and all the ones i see people reading seem to be anime or something along those lines
'Anime' refers to the animated portion of it. The comic books you see them reading are called 'manga'. Just a little fact there, since if you ever get in a conversation with someone regarding manga you're going to look like a real idiot if you call them 'anime books' or something. It's like a mother who calls her kid's iphone a 'Nintendo'.

My Non-Western Lit class is reading Chicken With Plums this fall, another graphic novel by her. My university is really pumped about 'artistic new media,' especially graphic novels. Don't view it as just a comic, literature shouldn't be taken absolutely seriously all the time. Just enjoy the story.

>>1888180
>no form of artistic expression is superior to any other
>designing great stamps is no better than writing great novels

OP, at least one student in your seminar will get bumped up from a B+ to an A- because of the professor's appreciation for the moments of silent "holy shit, this fucking guy" eye contact they'll share whenever you speak in class

pls note that the intellectual elitist OP of this thread is the author of this gem >>1887601

>>1888201
Stamp design is graphic design. Are you trying to tell me a process with the word 'design' right in its fucking name is not a form of creative expression? Really now?

>>1888214
Haha wow. OP you really are a twat. I hope I don't run into people like when I go to university later this year. Your bullshit would drive me insane.

persepolis is fucking great. don't worry about it.

It takes like a day to read, it's pretty simple and interesting. I read it when I was 14.

Stop being such a baby.

>>1888232
>Are you trying to tell me a process with the word 'design' right in its fucking name is not a form of creative expression?

Heh, nah, just that stamp design is an art form clearly and unarguably beneath literature. And yes, I consider it an art form.

>>1888054
If I actually read the rest of the replies, I will just get depressed and hide this thread, so I will just say this:

Persepolis is MOTHERFUCKING AMAZING. Read it, appreciate it, and love it.

Literature isn't the only medium that can transfer complex thoughts. If I had tenure I'd teach a graphic novel unit to my students. There's some brilliant writing out there in standalone titles especially.

I don't know why I even come to /lit/. I hate all of you so much and you all deserve to your pretentious mouths curb-stomped. Clearly OP was ignorant to this subject, but he is giving it a shot and willing to change his views. Sorry he isn't a mega faggot like all of you pathetic losers who come here and defend cartoon porn and incest story's as art. Get over yourselfs.. God you wonder why you guys have no friends and are so lonely..

>OP you really are a twat. I hope I don't run into people like when I go to university later this year.
Your 14

>OP you're a complete fuckwit for placing any kind of judgment on a medium you know absolutely nothing about. My mother has heard of Persepolis for fuck's sake.
your mom is most likely your only friend

>>1888232
>>1888256
I don't even know what fucking none sense you two are bickering about, and I doubt you do either.

This is a literature board not an intelligence proving board. So please go find out who is the least retarded on some other board, intact I think there is still a locomotive or train board inhabited by absolutely no one. Go there and contain your cancer

my methods of critical analysis class for english ba was all graphic novels b/c badass, postcolonialist critiqued the shit out of that shit

also, should read persepolis at some point

>>1888065

You fucking moron. "Persians" are people from Iran. The Kite Runner was written by a guy from Afghanistan.

Don't be a faggot.

>>1888469
lolumad

But i know that feel. and i also hate most of the people on this board

seems the neckbeard comic fags went a little hard on OP. but clearly he's been gone for awhile and probably never saw that crap. all in vain nerds..

>>1888065
>>1888065
>the kite runner
>written by a persian

WHAT?!

ITT pretentious dicks don't realize what an important book Persepolis is.

It's not "a graphic novel." It's a piece of hybrid-form literature akin to Alison Bechdel's "Fun Home" or Art Spiegel's "Maus."

Part of the reason you're seeing it in an entry-level English course is undoubtedly a push from the composition-rhetoric field. In an attempt to encourage reading and writing across the curriculum, first-year classes are starting to push toward reading varieties of forms and media as literary or rhetorically-viable text.

There's nothing "dumbed down" about it.

You guys are idiots.

Seriously, it's English 105. What is this, Intro to Literature? Advanced Intro to English? A compulsory class that probably fills a gen-ed requirement.

>>1888510
everybody itt jumped down the op's throat (which he completely deserved), you dorkus malorkus

>>1888522
I was mostly replying to:

>>1888074
>>1888098
>>1888115

>>1888510
This. A billion years ago when I took Comp. 1 and 2 the required reading was Norwegian Wood and The Wind-up Bird Chronicle respectively. First semester undergrads aren't going to be reading Gravity's Rainbow or some other text that's difficult to tackle. Most American students don't even really learn how to write or think critically until they're smack in the middle of upper division courses.

I had this as a summer reading as well 3 years ago, but I never had any assignments for it. Maybe it was just a suggestion by the school. Personally I love illustration, so I was pretty happy about that....

>>1888065

It was written by a Pashtun.

Finished my freshman year this year OP.

Semester 1: Asian American studies (all short stories and essays about photographs)

Semester 2: Write essays about essays about gays and cloning and abortion and shit.

Not a single book was read.

It is all such bullshit, isn't it?

You go to COLLEGE, the FINAL DESTINATION of liberal education, and you don't even get to read and analyze and critique a real fucking novel?

I don't want to live on this planet anymore.

>>1888579
You're an idiot.

What makes a novel inherently better to study than an essay?

Also, the class is there to teach you how to write essays--as in, how to engage in the academic discourse you'll be using the entire span of your college career. Of course you're reading essays to see how it's done.

God forbid you have to read about some current, important issues instead of Vonnegut.

>>1888579
It hardly matters when one considers most liberal arts degrees are now fast tracks to tent cities. Just fly through a business degree. You won't read any books, you won't even learn anything, but you'll be a far cry from living on the street with your MA.

>>1888522

>everybody itt jumped down the op's throat (which he completely deserved)

i would say OP half deserved this, i mean he isn't even in college yet, and most likely fresh out of the public school system. As you can see here, even in a literary community, there is still debate and ignorance towards these 'graphic novels' being considered true literature.

just read it and enjoy it OP, its good.

>>1888605
Second semester English is usually current events anyway. Plus, these classes are designed to teach you how to think critically. It doesn't really matter what you're reading at this point.

>>1888606
Oh god what a horrifying truth, stop haunting me with this in my last year of college!

That main character/author was an annoying bitch. I finally put the book down, because she was so stupid, so self-righteous. Always thinking she was right. I couldn't sympathize with her at all, and it made the book tedious to read.

>>1888634

It's fine, just travel the world and work for a bank if all else fails. Someone has to hire BA/MA students, and there are more employed arts graduates than there are unsuccessful ones.

You could be doing a BSc, gaining a specific degree that has no use outside a mundane field from which you can never escape - only doing jobs that suit a governments' military-industrial complex with boring-ass 'research' projects on the side. Arts is quite limitless, but that in itself has its limits.

>>1888644
I'd want to mirror your optimism, but in America there's money to be made in the military industrial complex, as a researcher for big pharma, etc. but no one really takes liberal arts degrees seriously. I suppose we could all work in colleges, but much like foreign language programs, I imagine most state universities aren't going to have programs like English for much longer.

>>1888644
And no one in banking hires liberal arts majors.

mother of god. what type of shit heap did this thread turn in to?

well OP is back, first and foremost, fuck almost all of you

>>1888606
and i like the way you think. cause that's exactly what I'm doing, expect with marketing. I'm all ready guaranteed an upper level management position in my step-dads [half his] advertizing company, with a starting salary just under six figures

does it make you guys mad that I'm basically going to college for fun? sure you might be right about your comic books but lets see you turn that into a useful degree

>>1888469
i like you. i also hate the pretentious dickfaces here, but I'll always have a sweet spot for literature and a job faggots

anyways good night /lit/ and thanks, you've made me alot more optimist about reading this book!

>>1888658

>I imagine most state universities aren't going to have programs like English for much longer.

I can understand this, but as long as there is a middle class willing to pay for a liberal arts education you're going to have universities providing liberal arts degrees. If not, science would fail miserably at progression - it's a mutual relationship between observation (pure science) and creation (whether that be building a bridge or writing a play).

People also want to be entertained. Even the diehard scientist or military-man who pretends his life and mind are as objective as the was he perceives bubbles in a test tube. The military-industrial complex may provide more money, but it's certainly not going to provide enjoyment. If a military-industrial complex becomes entrenched enough, people will look for other sources of entertainment they can't find in their passion.

Arts won't die because, regardless of pertinent observations by authors like Margaret Atwood and some Dawkins commenting that 'science is poetry for the real world', people want to be entertained.

>>1888661

In Britain they do - fuck, every graduate I know is in banking.

>>1888664
Holy crap, I have the scooter in that picture. It's pretty awesome.

>>1888658
Why wouldn't they have English programs for much longer? English programs are doing just fine with enrollment and, in my experience, they're growing.

>>1888682

They're also cheaper to fund, which means more money goes into the military-industrial coffer. Seriously though, anyone ranting about significant change to human behavior is ahistorical.

>>1888680
hahaha no way man. thats fucking sick. im jealous as fuck.

i'd trade everything i own for an 82 delorean and one of those bad boys

>>1888671
Middle America will be entertained by movies crafted my Hollywood execs, not writers. (And most people simply do not read.) And while I imagine some schools will always keep some liberal arts degrees but as universities hemorrhage more and more money most aren't going to see the worth in continuing to provide them. The university I work at had a large portion of its student population majoring in various foreign language programs only five years ago, but now there isn't a single foreign language program. This is at a Tier 1 university!

>>1888673
Unfortunately, that's not the case where I live. You might be able to get a job as a teller with a liberal arts degree here. Hell, unless you want to be an artist, copy writer or media buying making ten dollars an hour for the first ten years of your career, you can't even get into advertising.

>>1888694
Do you go to LSU? Please tell me you go to LSU so we can rant....

>>1888664
>my step-dads [half his] advertizing company, with a starting salary just under six figures
>step dads
>English Major
>cannot use apostrophes

>>1888776

lol contgratz on proving OP's point that your all pretentious fags, with no future in anything but correcting grammer

>>1888804
>implying OP's single skill isn't his mom being a whore and sleeping with the boss

>>1888804

>Implying you're not a ridiculous pedant for judging grammar on an anonymous image board.

I think we should have sex. I would seriously think it would work.