/lit/ - Literature

>>18838394
>Dostoyevsky
Literally who?

>>18838394
All of them hated Dostoyevsky I mean

hes christian and they dont like that

>>18838457
This. As an atheist i hate Dostoyevski.

>>18838394
It's all because of Peterson lmao. That benzo nigga did a number on them.

>>18838394
They hate him because he spoke the truth

>>18838394
>be young
>think tolstoy is best because he is the only one you know
>get older
>think dostoyevsky is best and tolstoy is just more famous
>read more
>branch further into russian lit, prefer lermontov or gorky or bunin or whatever
>read more
>realize tolstoy truly was the greatest the whole time
fags on step 3 are making fun of fags on step 2, dostoyevsky is excellent, they make fun of him as a young adult mocks his past self as a teenager, not realizing that he will be mocked in time too

>>18838394
Because, while he understand human psychology very well, he has so many bad takes. It's a conflicting experience to read him. One one hand he's a genius at understanding people, but on the other he uses all his insight to justify the most stupid ideas. And the most mindblowing thing is that it's not that he doesn't know better. He does. You can tell by how he writes his progressive/intellectual characters. He understand well how modern people think, but he still somehow finds the way to portray them as lost and foolish.
Not that I find him hard to read, of course. But he's so frustrating because he's so close to get it right, but instead he goes back to his reactionarism and christianity.

>>18838505
>gorky
He said some based things and he was a good writter, but anyone who rates him over Tolstoy or Dostoyevsky should be forced to work as a serf until his spirit is purified.

>>18838512
>he goes back to his reactionarism and christianity
Based

>>18838512
>he goes back to his christianity
Absolutely based.

>>18838512
>he goes back to his reactionarism and christianity
Unfathomably based

>>18838394
because he is pulpy and most dosto translations suck ass
infamous the scene where ivan lectures alyosha

>>18838512
Maybe it's you who's wrong.

>>18838512
>Am I out of touch? No, it's the genius author who is wrong

>>18838512
you get hate for saying the truth
Dosto's ideas are old fashioned and it's insane he could understand modernity so well and still cling to reactionary fantasies
I suspect he got some sort of stockholm after being sent to siberia
they beat the common sense out of him and after that he was too afraid to leave the little box of conformism he was forced into

>>18838613
instead of using ad hominems how about you say something specific that he got wrong

>>18838462
The most seemingly intelligent and cunning of his characters are usually the atheists (aside from the smart atheist's obligatory dickriders)

>>18838512
>But he's so frustrating because he's so close to get it right
The author is so close to aligning perfectly with my specific views, he is so close to being a genius like me!

>>18838394
not everyone is part of your gay culture war. nor is dostoyevsky "intimidating" in the least, his books are simply wildly uneven (and mostly lame), his cardboard cutout characters are all silly faggots and his writing is downright dreadful

>>18838977
too obvious anon

Why do dostofags always act like fanatics? They sperg out whenever their holy cow is touched. It's just unacceptable for them to realize some people don't like him, at least because of his atrocious style. Anyway he wrote the most of his books just to pay his gambling debts so what's the deal.

>>18838512
/pol/tard tourists are seething at you but you're right. It's bizarre how acute he was as a critic while also being one of the dime-a-dozen reactionaries of his time - like, how do you realize the irreconcilable contradictions inherent to the dialectic of the times you live in, and instead of realizing that the only viable way to resolve them is through confroting them head on and progressing past them, you drown yourself in the opium of religion and reactionary politics?

>>18838952
Yes, but Dostoyevsky doesn't treat cunning as a particularly admirable trait. Raskolnikoff in C&P used his cunning to justify why laws should not apply to him, which caused him to commit murder. Hippolyte in the Idiot goes on a huge atheistic nihilistic rant showing that he is clever but it is heavily implied that he is really quite foolish, especially when everyone ignores him and his suicide attempt fails. Ivan is undoubtedly the most intellectual and clever of his brothers in TBK but his cleverness just causes him to hate the world. Alyosha, who is less clever, is the only admirable character in the story because he is virtuous (humble, kind, etc.).

>>18838505
>learn Russian
>become a pushkinchad

>>18839044
>Why do dostofags always act like fanatics?
insecure, alienated young men who seek refuge in muh canon in a rapidly changing world, obsessed with the idea of having unimpeachable figures to worship. many of them probably got to him from jbp, which explains a lot. sad, really

>>18839062
Thanks for posting a picture of your hook nose, now I can dismiss your post

>>18838394
>Last threads about people reacting to our popularity lists made

Would you mind linking me one of these?

>>18838394
>Why does he make people angry?
It’s literally because he’s super Christian and that makes redditors mad.

>>18838466
>That benzo nigga
Dead.

>>18838559
>infamous the scene where ivan lectures alyosha
I’m rereading it now and I’m afraid that will be cringe now when I thought it was the most deep shit ever as a kid.

>>18839062
>he thinks poltards would defend Dosto
Fucking retarded

Anyone else think it is because it can require you to actually read the book? Dosto Dramas can take a while to get into by their nature and you cannot really pick up a long Dosto book and read 20 pages a day and follow it well.

most people on reddit work 9/5 and have friends and hobbies other than reading so cannot spend long reading or invest as much time into a book I guess.

>>18838394
literally not one single person in the entire world is "intimidated by Dostoyevsky"

>>18838952
they are also hopeless sophists who are quite rightly miserable. Ivan even meets the devil in one way or another (roughly speaking).

>>18838462
You're just a retard, your atheism has nothing to do with it. I'm an atheist and absolutely love Dostoevsky, and one of the biggest atheists in history (Nietzsche) did as well.

>>18838505
nobody prefer bunin

>>18839250
>speak russian from birth
>know that Twelve Chairs is the best work of russian literature ever written

>>18838613
If he could see what happened to Russia n the 20th century he would undoubtedly double down. Besides it is now communism and atheism that are 'outdated' there

>>18839425
Этo. Пиндocaм нe пoнять.

>>18838394
Crime and Punishment was the very first classic novel I picked up as an adult and I had zero trouble reading it.
What kind of idiot thinks Dostoevsky is difficult to read in English?

>>18839242
>Dostoyevsky doesn't treat cunning as a particularly admirable trait
It isn't.

>>18838505
Idk if that's true. I read W&P, AK and all (yes all) of Tolstoys short stories. Of Dostoyevsky I've only read TBK. I love both Leo and Dosto but TBK stands alone at the top for me

>>18839062
>Redditor tourists are seething at you but you're right. It's bizarre how acute he was as a critic while also being one of the dime-a-dozen progressives of his time - like, how do you realize the irreconcilable contradictions inherent to the dialectic of the times you live in, and instead of realizing that the only viable way to resolve them is through confroting them head on and rejecting them, you drown yourself in the opium of ideology and identity politics?

>>18838394
>Dostoyevsky
this is a literature board

>>18839062
>irreconcilable contradictions
>progress past them

2x2 makes 4 without my will, as if 2x2 was any will of one's own. Fyodor understood all too well why that was a completely dead in the water possibility. Only a child does not value or respect irrational behavior. It is inevitable. The second man ceases to act irrationally and acts in full accordance with rationality "man" ceases to exist. Irrarionality is his inalienable trait and a world constructed to remove his influence is no longer human.

>>18839537
This one picture renders all their seething about Dostochad null and void.

>>18839405
>I'm an atheist and absolutely love Dostoevsky
Ivan is so me!

>>18838394
Dostoyevsky wouldn't make it today. No big publisher would take him and no one would read him. He lost in the marketplace of ideas. We know better now.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LwI25UhTtGo

>>18838394
atheist midwitism tis a shame to see it

>>18838394
Poor Folk was a cringe book, you lied to me /lit/. Dostoyawnsky sucks ass

>>18839044
This. The fanboys are unbearable, and the text would be much better without the fillers.

>>18842173
Great video. It's hilarious how conservatives always talk about how the market of ideas should be free and complain they are being censored and so on. They don't have a sit in the table not because they are being censored, but because their ideas got completely obliterated in the market of ideas decades ago.

>>18838394
I don't know, maybe they lack life experience. As an ex-criminal and convict who fucked everything in life that you can imagine and have seen the worst and the best from people his books were instantly relatable and very important in my life. And I was not well read at all when I first pick up a book by him (House of the Dead).

>>18842152
Protip, Christians are just psychologically-driven animals like everyone else and it's possible for atheists to relate to any one of them in all of their experiences.

>>18842173
That guy completely destroy conservatives LMAO

>>18842173
>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LwI25UhTtGo
And in the meantime, while these people give each other pats in their backs, China studies Carl Schmitt because they are well aware progressivism destroy civilizations.

>>18838512
>Uuuugh hes soo good but i must dismiss him because he hasnt tasted the euphoric enlightenment of intelect and nhilism *tips fedora*

Do you people have no self awareness?

>>18843121
>progressivism destroy civilizations
You meant capitalism, right? Because progressivism is the only thing keeping the west from being devoured by greedy corporations with no values.

>>18843267
Even progressivism has been co-opted by capitalism in the mainstream discourse.

>>18843275
>OH! NO! Corporations now are forced to care about human rights!
And that's bad how? I'm well aware that the executives of Coca-Cola are probably racist and homophobic, but as long as they are forced by the consumers to support diversity, then it's not so bad. I would prefer if the government had more power over them, instead of the other way around, but I'll take this as a step towards something better.

>>18843301
Why are lefties like this bros?

>>18843301
Why is atomizing the working class with as many racial and vultural divides so important to you?

>>18843301
>he thinks they care about human rights
O i am laffin

>>18843121
>>18843267
>>18843275
>>18843301
>>18843309
>>18843312
>>18843328
The video was satirical spergs, he mentions “George Orlando’s 1964”.

>>18843275
It hasn't been co-opted. Progressivism and capitalism are the same thing. They depend of each other, and as one grows, the other follows. Mark Fisher-tier retards are some of the biggest midwits in the world and without a doubt the biggest useful idiots. "If only my leftist ideas hadn't been hijacked by the enemy! Hmmm. I guess we should double down with more leftism!"

>>18843267
>>18843121
Progressivism in a generation or so will have to answer for the drop of birthrates in western and western-like countries, and the subsequent debate on the worthiness of maintaining a system of values that is not even able to self-replicate itself.

Why do lefties think they're against the system, when they're promoted by most corporations and governments? It just seems like paranoid schizophrenia to me

>>18843347
What do you expect from this board? Right wingers are too dumb to understand that most, of not all, breadtube channels are satirical. Contrapoints and Philosophytube aren't even trans, in the sense that they don't really identify as women. They only transitioned as an epic troll to mock hons. Why you think all these male feminists always end up being abusers and rapists? They were only pretending for a laugh.

>>18838484
>They hate him because he spoke the truth
Didn’t he used to go around fancy dinner parties calling all the females with short dyed hair dykes?

>>18843347
>he mentions “George Orlando’s 1964"
He's mocking right wingers who love to talk about 1984, but haven't even read it and don't even know the name of the author. He's legit. He's main gimmick is talking about bad city planning and, mostly, mocking dumb conservatives to deradicalize alt-righters. He makes very good content.

Here he explains himself and what he's trying to do: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=94_5mXsQTpA

>>18838505
This but replace the first Tolstoy with Dostoevsky and lermontov or Gorky or Bunin or whatever with Dostoevsky and then the final Tolstoy with Dostoevsky.

>>18839537
god I love this country

>>18838394
what i learned from reading shitty goodreads reviews is that the normalfag reaction to something they don't understand is seething hatred. and they don't understand just about anything more complex than a generic YA or /sffg/ rag. ever see a "reading guide to [x]" and wonder what kind of mouthbreather really needs a fucking guide to that? normalfaggots. the average person can barely understand a written book, and that's why they prefer to read the same book over and over again (formulaic genrefiction) than anything that could challenge them. the only thing preventing us from calling this mental retardation and a behavioral disorder is the fact that it's present in the majority of humanity.

funnily enough foreigners don't seem to be as afflicted with this. indians in particular love classic literature. i don't know that they understand it, but reading something in a second language they barely understand seems enjoyable for them. meanwhile western english-firstie midwits get assblasted when something challenges them even the slightest bit or forces them to think in order to get it. then they post assblasted wall of text 1 star reviews.

>>18844007
I've never thought to read reviews on goodreads. Holy shit, 1-star reviews of great books are fucking hilarious. /lit humor threads are generally pretty empty and you see the same 4 or 5 memes over and over--1-star reviews by pseuds expressing their narcissism without realizing they were filtered deserves more attention than it gets.

>>18844007
To add to >>18844097; I'm noticing that a lot of people are filtered because they focus on plot when they shouldn't (i.e. disappointed when they don't get "formulaic genrefiction").

I once posted pic related in a thread and had 4 replies saying something along the lines of "Dostojewski knew nothing of the human condition".

I'm still not sure if they were being genuine or just trolling, because I find the quote encapsulates the current age of information-driven society quite well.

>>18844097
>What the frick. A bunch of people with easy to mix up Russian names have conversations in different places for-EVER.
lol

>>18844116
read a review on steppenwolf where the roastoid was mad that it was "about a guy who thinks he's a werewolf." and sometimes they even post this kind of retardation with their real name and photo on their profile.
but there are regular threads on that actually. i never bother to save pics of reviews so i cant be bothered. but seriously, never fails. go to any book and find the 1 star reviews and it's hilarious. and remember, these people vote, and their vote counts as much as yours does.

>>18844164
looks like vladamir isnt a fan lmao

>>18838512
I'd join the train and say "based" like the others but Christianity is kinda cucked. But Dostoevsky is a genius.

>>18844007
>>18844097
Nothing beats a Goodreads review written by someone who thinks they're intelligent, but is in fact clearly a dumbass teenager.

>>18844198
posting on the internet should require an IQ test.

>>18843527
Good channel. I'll subscribe. Thanks, fren.

>>18843121
>Carl Schmitt because they are well aware progressivism destroy civilizations.

you don´t even have to read Carl to notice that

>>18843267
>You meant capitalism, right? Because progressivism is the only thing keeping the west from being devoured by greedy corporations with no values.

>>18843354
>It hasn't been co-opted. Progressivism and capitalism are the same thing

>>18842173
>gay rights dont destroy the family
>abortion is mostly beneficial
Yeah alright mate

>>18844167
>was "about a guy who thinks he's a werewolf."
Well yeah

>>18839062
>/pol/tard tourists
>THE /POL/ BOGEYMAN NOOOOOOOO SAVE ME PETERSON

>bought demons
what am in for, no spoilers please

>>18846932
a lot of boring old shit

>>18846238
That video is full of lame ideas, many of which have already been destroyed.

>universities are leftist because the people who go to universities are open minded

A ridiculous argument. Experts form cliques just like any other group of people and there's going to be bias in their hiring and admissions as a result. Conservative universities do the same thing. You want to hire people you believe are correct or share your values, it's natural. Stating that it's a result of liberal superiority is nonsense; it's a result of liberal consensus.

Furthermore, he takes for granted that 'open-mindedness' is an inherent good. G. K. Chesterton already demolished him a century ago. You should only be open-minded to the extent that you want your mind to be filled, and you want it to be filled with the best things. At a certain point being open-minded simply means not holding to anything as true. Nobody who preaches open-mindedness preaches open-mindedness to the point of considering whether neo-nazis have a good point. It's important to be open-minded to the extent of considering ideas and listening charitably even to tough arguments and positions, but there is a point of being too open-minded and we have to admit that.

>>18842173
UGH I KNOW I NEED MY BOOKIE WOOKIES TO BE EXCITING AND ACTION PACKED AND MODERNISED ABOUT BIKINI PIRATE SPACE NINJA ELVES WHO ARE ALL IN LOVE WITH AN OBESE NERD WITH SOCIAL ISSUES AND THEY BATTLE EVIL REDNECK HORSE ARCHERS ON PIRATE SHIPS IN THE ASTEROID BELT OH MY GOD WOWOZERS LIKE WOWOWOWOOWOWOWW SOOOOOOOO INTERESTING AND NEW I HAVE TO CONSOOOOM NEW BOOKIE WOOKIES ABOUT LE EPIC SCIENCE BEING USED IN CLEVER GIMMICKS, THE PROTAG IS JUST LIKE ME, I'M SUPER COOL JUST LIKE THAT BRO, OMG WOW OWOW WOWOW!!!!!!!

>>18846932
demons is his best work.

>>18847207
>>18847050
who do i believe?

>>18847219
me

>>18847228
ok

>>18843267
>obliterating working class unity with a million of the most pointless degenerate wedge issues and self destructive cultural norms is saving us from corporations!
you people are so fucking disconnected from reality its beyond funny at this point

>>18847281
>obliterating working class unity
you are dumb if you believe that any form of leftism did this

>>18847294
i never mentioned leftism but you know what, since you brought it up, yes leftism is responsible for normalizing progressivism and bringing it to the forefront. even marx himself was concerned about how it attracted degenerate progressives like flies on shit. its also why leftist groups are so easy to undermine and subvert

>>18842173
>Video made by hungarian
opinion discarded

>>18848094
Aren't hungarians supposed to be extremely based? How come that guy is such a cuck? Was I lied by Orban's propaganda?

>>18848316
Hungarians are the biggest bootlickers in the world.
It's geopolitical necessity.
t. Hungarian

>>18847294
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gammon_(insult)
its progressives pushing diversity and wokism against working (aka white) men

>>18844167
>a review on steppenwolf where the roastoid was mad that it was "about a guy who thinks he's a werewolf."
what the fuck?
post it please

>>18844198
>someone who thinks they're intelligent, but is in fact clearly a dumbass teenager.
/lit/...

>>18847316 listen to >>18848349.
The polcucks and HUNgayrians are not the tradcath saviors of EVROPA like americans think.

>>18848614
Nobody thinks that, people have just noticed that the Hungarian government doesnt appear to actively despise its own citizens, making it better than...the entire west pretty much

>>18843431
>right wingers are dumb for assuming these people meant what they said in good faith and weren't pretending to undermine an ideology
If that's true, it doesn't make the right dumb, it makes them naive. It also means that you have to take an incredibly cynical view of everyone you encounter, which is an incredibly depressing way to live.

>>18843431
>They were only pretending for a laugh.
no they're grifters out to fleece thier own 'side' that thinks they're honest. it's "Hello fellow X" kike tricks. scorpion and the frog, every time.

>>18838512
>>18839062
There is no way to progress beyond irreconcilable contradiction, it will sow the seeds of failure in any system that proceeds, because one is essentially proceeding from false premises. Such contradiction arises precisely because of a blind rush forward or a refusal to acquiesce to limitation; either dynamic will incorporate false premises, instead of principled reconciliation within the strictures of human nature and relations, as defined by the historically-wrought heuristics of pre-modern thought.
Faced with such motives, the only response is "reaction", or rather correction.
The rationalists and their spawn instituted an unceasing upward spiral of societal complexity, they commodified man and his forms, they imposed their idiot pride on the naturally-ordered divine structure, and their world will end in fire as a result. Those who can see past the mutilated humanity molded to sustain such goals are not surprised by the fallout; neither by the ultimate failure, nor the seething, febrile addiction of the adherents to further mutilation. Dostoevsky's forecasted destruction of the Crystal Palace by disillusioned future man has been rendered obsolete by the bumbling operators of its current effigy and their pretentious inability to live by their own doctrines; by their failure to predict the consequences for climate and fertility, he is proven more immediately correct.
This perspective is the farthest thing from drowning, it is sanity.

>>18847294
Social progressivism transformed the worker from a unit and expression of collective labor and (re)production, into a sterile, bloated, castrated consumer who enables the laundering of capital. This transformation was instigated by the early modern European nouveau-riche, the whigs and the burghers, the first revolutionaries grounding himself in the teachings of heretics.
Back to the present: Consumerism is fundamentally transgressive to open new avenues of consumption, and thus retrospectively progressive. Seeing as leftism was originated and driven by social concerns first, and the grand economic explanations and copes came later, it should be of no surprise that leftism has been subverted by the champions of its ultimate cause.
> this doesn't benefit the working class in reality!
In hyperreality, it does.

>>18838394
There's nothing in Dostoevsky that hasn't been expressed in English literature, not to mention his writing is shabby. You're better off just reading your standard diet of Austen, Dickens, Eliot, Hawthorne, Melville, etc. without having some exotic borscht. The real red pill is Conrad not Dostoevsky and Tolstoy.

>>18850336
>this is what anglos unironically believe

>>18848912
truly epic sir

>>18839062
>rreconcilable contradictions inherent to the dialectic of the times you live in, and instead of realizing that the only viable way to resolve them is through confroting them head on and progressing past them
did you even read what you just posted?? There is progressing from a contradiction. The very fact that contradictions exists in human world gives way to recognize that rationalism isn't perfect and it still needs to be evolved beyond the scope of what we see to be true...

>>18851136
>There is progressing from a contradiction
*There is no progressing from a contradiction

>>18838394
Clunky P&V translations probably put a lot of people off, especially as they're the most common these days.

>>18851236
Who’s better? Garnett? McDuff? Katz? I’m reading C&P next

ሚ

>>18839405
>Nietzcshe
>An Atheist
KEK

>>18838512
>Dostoyevsky has bad takes
>He's reactionary
Leftypol please. Dostoyevsky is good precisely because he exposes the complete moral barrenness of secular atheist thought. Without recognition of the transcendent aspects of reality man is little more than a beast, even worse a man who accepts nihilism becomes worse than a beast because he rejects his divine image in favor of naturalism and hedonism.

>>18851785
Word salad. You sound like Jay dyer lol

>>18851995
Not him, you should work on your reading level

>>18851785
As an athiest/agnostic (call it what you want) what I identify as "secular athiest thought" is the cult of rationality. There are many belief systems not founded on rational thought. Religion does not have a monopoly on irrational belief systems.

>>18852169
>rational
>”””” universal human rights “””

>>18851785
>Dostoyevsky is good precisely because he exposes the complete moral barrenness of secular atheist thought
I'm an atheist and I basically agrees with him, there is no solid foundation for objective morality.

>>18852247
Thank you for being honest

>>18851778
He literally called himself an atheist and so did others.

>>18838394
> Why are people intimidated by Dostoevsky?
The vulgarization of the intellectual sphere

Bc TBK exposes imbalance in a person’s soul. Whichever character one sympathizes with most is subject to its tyranny. Ivan and Smerdyakov, Dmitri and Fyodor, Alyosha and Zozima. The brothers are afflicted and the three parallels are Dosto revealing the consequences of said tyranny.

Pseuds seethe to see their moral character encapsulated in the retarded cripple and their fate laid out for them. Hedons like Dmitri probably wouldn’t read TBK, today.

>>18851778
how the hell do you take him to be anything but an atheist?

>>18854351
while that anon was dumb, it must be aknowledge that Nietzcshe isn't anything like the typical materialist atheist of today

>>18847228
it's very political, takes 200 pages to get interesting, but when it finally does it is worth it. that shit slaps VERY hard.

It fucking amazes me; the lack of reading comprehension of /lit/.

Retards skim a reply and completely miss the point.

I don't understand how you can hate Dostoyevsky unless you're a dysfunctional person. Some of the best prose I've ever read, maybe the best.

>>18854849
nice

leddit

spacing

>>18847219
Yourself. Stop fucking around here and go read that book you bought.

>>18854901
*clears throat* Dumb nigger.

What an embarrassing post.

>>18854849
>Some of the best prose I've ever read, maybe the best.
read more books

>>18852247
Ivan is so me!

>>18842173
>>18842285
>>18842385
You bastards! You promise me a genius and you give me a fool.
>Arts degree

Christ, how could you not be ashamed at making this simpleton you're bastion of reason. I remember when those who identified as leftists/liberals championed Vash or Vaush or whatever his name is until it became clear that he was a pro-pedophilia. Suddenly Vaush was an alt-right psyop and not leftist was ever promoting him. You losers are intellectually baron.

>left-right
>2021 with the world of information at your fingertips
>still falling for false dichotomies

>>18855282
Who has better prose?
>very cheap comment

>>18838512
Christianity? I kneel.