/lit/ - Literature

>For me? It's R Scott Bakker. Intelligent, Nihilistic and with a Wicked Sense of Humor.

Bakker.

>>18835328
Bakker
Wolfe
Tolkien
Martin, I guess

The only fantasists worth reading.

You really never sleep do you? Every time new thread in less than a minute after 310 posts in previous thread.

Stupid anime nigger tranny faggot.

PS. read Bakker

>>18835341
Based.
>>18835337
Unironically this, minus the sense of humor.
>>18835346
Based.

I’m loving this thread already.

>>18835358
you just got filtered.

>>18835357
And it’s all organic. Not one or two shitposters but a plethora.

I swear to god, /sffg/ is among the most bitchy, petty, combative, and mean-spirited generals on all of 4channel.

Ironic, given that you’re all arguing about books about magic wizards and robots, kek.

Nothing brings me more joy than knowing that you will all eventually give in and read Bakker In the end. Everyone knows that the shit-posters are virtually all newfags.

We just can’t stop winning.

>>18835364
Forgot image

>>18835368
It seems you have not been to /wg/

>>18835369
Based

>>18835357
Based

>>18835362
Based

>>18835367
Nothing makes sense when you’re stupid.

>>18835369
No one is forcing you to stay here, sweetie :)

>> 18835379
Based

>>18835368
No one’s forcing you to stay here, sweetie :)

made a server without bakkerfags and trannies
https://discord.gg/7nJUr4b2
join if you wanna

>>18835409
>join if you wanna
No, thanks.

Is it, fun?
I’m looking for fun.

>>18835409
So it’s an empty server? You must be retarded manga reader.

>>18835368
We accept your defeat, tranny. You will literally never win.

>>18835328
how the fuck do i get good at making up names for my characters and kingdoms etc?

>>18835430
depends on what you consider fun. For me it wasn't, Jack vance is a fun author with fun writing if you want a recommendation.

>>18835430
The book is a fantasy heist story that has also a romantic relationship between the main character and some obnoxious noble. There is also a master apprentice relation between the main character and the heist master. They overthrow “evil emperor” which then happened to be a slight mistake.

In the second book the main character thinks she is a prophezized hero that will stop the mists that are killing people now that emperor is not keeping them in check. She eventually reaches the Well and ends up “failing” the prophesy which was really a ruse to release a devil god onto the world and cause apocalypse.

In the third book they stop the evil together and some side character becomes benevolent Harmony god in the end. Main character dies and goes to heaven in the end.

Yea it is fun.

>>18835430
Sure, if you like mediocre YA novels.

>>18835446
>You anon here is a spoiler of the whole series
>I think it's pretty good you should give it a read
Not him, but If I was going to read it before I wont now.

>>18835453
>>18835446
>>18835442
I’m just trying to find an easy to read fantasy with a protagonist focus

>>18835409
HAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHA

>>18835461
He did you a favour.

>>18835463
Try Twilight. Meets all your requirements.

>>18835461
That was the whole point. I’m saving him from Sanderson

>Bakker
Dishonest pseud trash for zoomer midwits
>Sanderson
Marvel tier quipping high fantashit drivel for bugmen consumers
>Martin
Low fantasy mudcore shit for retards with no knowledge of actual medieval history
>Tolkien
Boomer retard who ruined fantasy, spends hundreds of pages on gay languages and worldbuilding

Why does everyone in this thread have such shitty taste in fantasy authors?

>>18835477
Didn’t ask.

>>18835471
The first movie was funny and based. But I’ll probably dislike the book.

>>18835372
>>18835364
So we got four anons who constantly shitpost bakker. We always knew that.

>>18835483
This.
>>18835486
Does it trouble you?

>I like R Scott Ba-
GET OVER HERE WHITEBOI

>>18835486
Rent fucking free.

>>18835490
That you guys keep derailing /sffg/?

>>18835486
Five at least, since I posted after the other screencap anon. 5/11 isn't that bad.

>>18835486
So we got one proselet who constantly seethes about Bakker. We always knew that.

>>18835422
>Yeah, keep derailing threads for a shit author that only five people here reads.
5 people? I sincerely doubt that. Almost everyone here has read Bakker. That’s still way more than whatever translated shit you consume.

>>18835517
I haven't and wont ever.

>>18835520
We know that, sweetie. You unironically can’t read it. It’s too hard for you.

>>18835477
>Hodgson, Lovecraft, Ashton Smith, Lindsay

>>18835520
You need to be able o read to do that. There is no hope for you.

>>18835540
>>18835530
>People barely able to write tell me I can't read

>>18835536
based

>>18835536
Lindsay who

>>18835543
>can’t write
>can’t read
Bakker is definitely not for you.

I like brandon sanderson

>>18835520
Expected nothing else from a whiny bitch.

>>18835576
It’s a recurring thing among obese Latinos.

For some reason I expected this general would be different from the rest of 4chan. I’m as disappointed as when I went to /sci/

>>18835520
>>18835543
>wont

>>18835592
Nice blog post. How do I unsubscribe?

>>18835615
Sir this isn’t Reddit sir
Have a gold coin my stranger

>>18835592
/sffg/ is a quarantine zone for the worst faggots on /lit/. It's like /lit/'s gyppo ghetto. We only have it because it's one step above letting them roam and mingle freely.

>>18835640
makes sense.

>>18835592
You posting about scat doesn’t help either.

>>18835430
No, it's pretty boring. Only read the first book and it was real slog, like a good 200 pages far too long for the lame predictable story it was telling. It was equal parts a half-assed generic assassin orphan gets trained by "cool badass" angsty dude story, half-assed revolutionary tale, half-assed heist story, and half-assed awkward teen romance. It clearly didn't know what it wanted to be, beyond an excuse to write a bunch really dry info dumps, and the author just threw everything at the wall to see what stuck (and none of it did).

I'm starting to strongly dislike cugel. I hope he continues to suffer and suffers more. It please me greatly to see it so.

Why are bakkerfags trying to derail the thread.

>>18835640
>the rest of /lit/
>good
>not filled with retarded faggots

>>18835640
The rest of lit is silly too

>>18835704
which makes this thread all the more shittier

>Series is called “The Second Apocalypse”
We might never see the end of it, but if you don’t think that this is proof enough that the series isn’t finished, I don’t know what is.

>>18835779
How do we actually get in contact with Bakker? Has anyone here actually even attempted?

>>18835328
Anyone care to share their experience reading The Left Hand of Darkness? Listening to the audiobook version lately and while it's super interesting some parts are a little hard to follow based on how alien everything is.

>>18835821
Does it have to be new experiences? Otherwise, you can look at the thread archive or reviews written by those in the thread.

>>18835871
same could be said about every single discussion or argument had on this thread including the bakker-antibakker shit flinging

>>18835884
Cringe.

>>18835884
Some seem to entirely devalue anything isn't presented as new and immediate.

>>18835389
>dead in less than 2 hours

This thread really is dead without Bakker.

>>18835917
You just have too high of expectations for posting rate on this board.

>>18835917
It's almost as if you kill any discussion with your bakker shitposts.

>>18835917
Is there anything that even comes close to Bakker, though? I’m unironically asking, because I haven’t found a single fantasy series that is even remotely close, with regards to a quality.

>>18835945
>Is there anything that even comes close to Bakker, though?
Several authors are better than Bakker and no amount of your shitposting will ever change that.

>>18835950
Sorry, I don’t take book recommendations from ESLs.

>>18835945
I know what you mean. You should probably seek authors outside the genre. Even if the topics don’t interest you at first, you will definitely find better authors.

>>18835933
What discussion?

>>18835993
The ones you always kills with the same shitposts.

>>18835915
that was the wrong link. but yes most of this thread is just bakkerfags so i was an idiot to post it here.

>>18836012
Ok, one more time.

Which ones?

>>18836021
/sffg/ wasn't always like this. Bakkerfags need to fuck off to their discord.

>>18836031
the ones you killed.

>>18836012
>you always kills
You’re doing this alone.

>>18836036
>being this new

>>18836036
I remember seeing Bakker shilled here for well over 5 years now.

>>18836054
This isn't true at all. Two years ago almost every post was a Wolfe post.

>>18836045
there was a few months back there when the bakker shilling toned down and got replaced by seething about animefags.

>>18836075
>bakker shilling toned down
Those faggots left and we were able to discuss books on /sffg/.

>>18836054
5 years? More like 10. Bakker has been glorified here ever since this board was created.

>>18836075
Learn to write, unironically.

>>18836093
>muh “can’t discuss books”

>>18836095
>Learn to write, unironically.
hmm. what part of my sentence confused you eslfag?

>>18836103
These cücks make it seem like people are going out of their way to stop discussions about any literal WHO fucking author. I’ve seen plenty of people discussing multiple things without a single derail. Literally rent-free schizophrenic territory.

I just made a mistake of going over yonder to Peter Watts blog. What a shitshow that place turned into.
Used to be you could go to Rifters and spend hours trawling through the weird and fascinating stuff Peter would dig up. Now it's like some doomer thread for senior citizens, for fuck's sake. You get used to the mentally unstable manchildren here, spewing doomer shit but to see one of your favorite writers go down that rabbit hole is disturbing.

I get it that he's assblasted about the humanity, childless, Canadian, all that crap but the ratio of signal to ecological disaster (getting disastery by the month), bashing Christianity (and only Christianity), the anti-natalist moral grandstanding and other assorted shit has gone into the shitter.
That place used to be pretty good, with great posters adding to the convo but they have all been driven away by the disaster cheerleaders.
FUck.

>>18836128
With the way you post the same shit over and over, it kills discussions.

>>18836128
>shit up thread with never ending shilling
>someone dares to complain about it
>r-rent free!
based bakkercuck.

What do you look for in a first book of a possible series and do you prefer multiple PoV's or single PoV's?

>>18836139
I prefer Bakker. I don't look for other books.

>>18836143
This.

Honestly lads, maybe it's time for us all to take a break. We'll let this general hit bump limit, but after that let's give it a week (or two) before we make another one. The past two generals have been more shitty than usual.

>>18836136
Not my problem, tranny.

>>18836151
Fuck you. All this anti Bakker seething has been great.

>>18836151
Bye bye, proselet. You will not be missed.

>>18836151
And what? Give the bakkerfags what they want?

>>18836103
>>18836108
Like pottery. Literally rent-free. Thank you for seething endlessly.

>>18836173
huh?

>>18836151
How do I unsubscribe from your blog?

I think we gotta admit it Bakker bros. We won. All the anti shills are mindbroken. This thread is truly ours.

>>18836170
Grow up already. I don’t even particularly appreciate Bakker, but Bakker-posting has been here from the very beginning. If you can’t deal with it, just fuck off already and stop being a bitch.

>>18836197
Derailing threads is winning?

>>18836208
Making you seethe is.
>>18836197
Truth Shines!

>>18836212
Ain't no one seething.

>>18836208
Yes. Fuck your thread.

>>18836207
This.

>>18836220
Yes, you are.

>>18836240
Nah

>>18836197
>>18836222
Based.

What should I read a after DUNE?

>>18835341
Imagine posting here without reading at least those three.

>>18836275
Dune

I am really intrigued to read Bakker, and I’m glad fantasy has an author like him- but I do wish this general wasn’t so autistic regarding him.

>>18836359
>but I do wish this general wasn’t so autistic regarding him.
You mean a small number of anons.

>>18836275
Three body problem for hard sci fi.

Wolfe for more old school sci-fi fantasy.

Sun eater if you want to take a chance on some modern sci-fantasy (it’s not overly pozzed)

>>18836359
Enjoy your gay scat porn.

>>18836359
The only people obsessed with derailing any civil discussion are people like this >>18836370 brainlet who haven’t even read the series, according to himself.

>>18836359
This general would be much better if people actually read before posting about an author.

>>18836197
Truth Shines!

>>18836275
Bakker.

Bakker bros where do we go from here? How do we make this thread even worse?

>>18836545
Going back to your discord.

>>18836556
>>18836545
>False Flagging
>Same Fagging

Let it go, you lost.

>"Cugel managed to bring forth the tube he had secured from Voynod and expelled blue concentrate at the villagers. Aghast, they toppled to the ground and Cugel was able to extricate himself from the net. Drawing his sword he leapt forward to cut Garstang free, but now the villagers rallied. Cugel once more employed his tube, and the villagers fled in dismal agony."

> when you try to murder some heretics to your god but the nigga's just keeps throwing blue juice at you so you run way in pain.

>>18836568
??

>>18836605
>Using Yotsuba
Yikes!

>>18836616
>y-yellow color??? AHHH IM GOING INSAAANE

>>18836568
Take your meds schizo.

>>18836623
>yellow
are you colorblind?

>>18836605
You aren’t even trying to fake it.

>>18836627
He’s retarded. Please understand.

>>18836629
fake what? these threads are bad. but we can do so much more to make them even worse. cmon bakkerbros!

>>18836639
>>18836545
>trolling outside of /b/

>>18836660
>Implying its trolling
No, that's how you fags act.

>>18836671
Like pottery.

>>18836673
this. faggot doesnt realize this thread is already ruined. based bakkerbros!

>>18836671
Literally room temp IQ.

I might actually give this Bakker fellow a chance after all. I’m genuinely curious to know why there are so many posts bashing the guy.

Which Redwall book is the best and why? I have very strong opinions on this matter but would gear all yours first.

>>18836660
T R U T H

S
H
I
N
E
S

>>18836691
>IP count didn't change

>>18836693
I liked Mariel of Redwall best, but The Bellmaker is the series' high point; it reminds me of The Darkness That Comes Before in a lot of ways, I almost wonder if Bakker was inspired by it

smart taravangian did nothing wrong

Finished the last two books of the second apocalypse series.
Overall a good series. The writing is strong, and bakker has a talent for creating a unique and interesting world. And the way he uses this as a vehicle for his philosophical ideas deserves a praise.

Also, the parallels between this series and malazan are fun. Like Cnaiür felt like a better version of Karsa Orlong.
However, while I enjoyed the conflict and journey of the characters in the first book, Kellhus invalidates these in the rest of the series.

The love triangle between Akka, Esmi and him?
We know Kellhus doesn’t feel anything and Esmi thoughts and feelings are artificially created by Kellhus. She isn’t just manipulated to “love” him and Kellhus doesn’t want to steal her away from Akka. He just calculated that she is useful for him and therefor made it happen.
I liked the dynamic between the whore Esmi and the honorless Akka in the beginning. And I would have loved to read the tragedy about they love falling apart or even getting a “happy ending” with them.

But with kellhus there is no tragedy. Esmi doesn’t have a choice. From a certain perspective, she has less freedom then a slave or a trained dog. Similar things happen to almost every other character. Kellhus turns these characters into mindless tools and we are just wondering what he intends to do with them.
You could argue in a similar fashion for the holy war. Instead of a devasting and murdering tragedy, it turns into a series of random town sackings as a part of Kellhus 10000 year long masterplan.

Turns out I like the Idea of a character like Kellhus. But I don’t like it as a big omnipresent part in the novel.
Not sure if I want to read another four (six?) books of this.

>>18836720
>Kellhus turns these characters into mindless tools and we are just wondering what he intends to do with them
To find out, you will have to
>read another four (six?) books of this.

Just finished The Eyes of the Overworld and... Cugel you fucking dumbass, you stupid manic. You are a clown and I laugh endlessly at your expense.
You just can't go wrong with vance I have yet to read a single book of his that I didn't enjoy.

Why is Sanderson so mediocre?

>>18836867
>The Eyes of the Overworld
An absolute masterpiece of literature. Every word is sublimely exquisite, and reading this book is a sheer pleasure for those who appreciate language. Deft turns of phrase, arcane vocabulary, and humorous (yet adultly gruesome) situations abound in this classic. A simply magnificent and wondrous book - definitely one that should not be missed.

>>18836867
have you tried reading the Darkness that Comes Before? Bakker really takes Vance's prose style and, with a dash of The KJV and some McCarthy thrown in, elevates it to something akin to some kind of bastard cross between the best of Clark Ashton Smith and Lydia Davis' translation of In Search of Lost Time.

>>18836693
>>18836712
>>18836867
>>18836882
>>18836883
Fuck off.

>>18836887
Didn’t ask.

>>18836893
Read bakker.

>>18836895
Fuck off.

>>18836893
Neither did we.

>>18836896
seethe and cope.

>>18836867
>>18836883
fucking shills.

>>18836913
Okay, Bakkerfag.

>>18836887
Ignore this killjoy.

>>18836867
>>18836883
Sounds cool, I will check it out.

>>18836693
My favorites are Mossflower and Salamandastron. Jacques at his most epic.

>>18836895
I’ve read all of it.

Bakker.

>>18836926
How can such a based word make so many cücks seethe?

>>18836882
He writes capeshit-tier plots with anime action scenes and Marvel-level quips. I tried reading him but he was just too juvenile for me—in fact, a lot of speculative fiction was really too juvenile for me. I almost gave up completely and went back to reading Joyce and Beckett before I discovered Bakker; he really demonstrates how inspiration should be done: you look to the best, and take only the absolute best parts of their writing and incorperate it into your own—truly amazing, I highly recommend his Second Apocalypse series; be warned, it is currently unfinished but the first trilogy is mostly self-contained

>>18836930
Because you fags keep shitting up and derailing threads with nothing but shitposting.

>>18836917
>Sounds cool, I will check it out.
Did you know that Bakker was heavily inspired by Vance's work? If you're looking for something with the same kind of feel, but more updated and better written in regards to characters and magic systems, I highly recommend The Darkness that Comes Before

Bakker.

>This thread
The Meat has taken the general.

Between the animetranny and the bakkerfags, this place has become completely unusable. Farewell and thanks for all the fish, I guess

>>18836955
Another fag filtered.

>>18836937
So, you admit you’re a cück?

Big Yikes!

>>18836917
>Sounds cool, I will check it out.
You will not regret it, although I do recommend you read the previous book in the series "the dying earth" first. It's absolutely not required but it really helps you envision the world better and it gives much greater appreciation for the shenanigans of the main character of this book.
It is also a very god book by itself, and very short as well.

>>18836967
see >>18836942 and >>18836885

>>18836955
Not my problem.

Bakker.

>>18836967
>the dying earth
Oddly enough, I think I enjoyed The Eyes of the Overworld much better than the first.

>>18836955
It's blatant shitposters who likely don't even read manga much less bakker or any other books. Just ignore them move on and they will disappear eventually.
You should just filter them, as you easily can with 4chanx.

>>18836967
World map looks cool on first glance.
Maybe strange of me to do this, but I often like to research an author's worldbuilding before diving into the series. I'll read the fan wikis, in-universe history, and look at maps to get acquainted with the world.

Really helps especially when there's an elaborate, complex and detailed world the author throws you into. Those are the best fantasy books desu.

>>18836975
Hello anon. Got a cool recommendation for you. Read R. Scott Bakker.

>>18836981
no

>>18836975
if you liked jack vance you will love r scott bakker
he hasnt completed the series yet but the books are worth reading anyways

>>18836975
>>18836978
>>18836980
>>18836983
Kill yourself.

>>18836986
I'm not reading Bakker.

>>18836975
As a full book I did also like the second book better because of the "continuous" storyline, but I enjoyed the short stories by themselves, of the first book, more.

>>18836991
>implying you can…

>>18836693
>>18836712
>>18836867
>>18836883
>>18836955
>>18836967
>>18836975
>>18836978
>>18836980
>>18836991
DOES IT TROUBLE YOU?

The Bakker-haters have obviously deployed a reverse strategy. They are trying to nuke the thread with aggressive fake-Bakker-spamming. Apparently the "cuck" and "scat" angles weren't getting them any points.

Fucking losers kek.

Reminder that the gay scat tranny is now posing as a Bakker fan.

Bakker.

>>18837001
>>18837000
He went from Orthodox to full meat crazed. It writes itself at this point.

>Posters: 25
>Replies: 197

>>18837021
does it trouble you ?

>>18836992
I have the same feeling, but I do hold Dying Earth a bit higher due to it being genre defining, fundamentally influential.

>>18837021
holy fuck that’s almost 8 posts per IP.
at the height of the meat madness this winter, it was still only like 3-4 posts per IP. dedicated derailer is dedicated

>>18837021
This might actually be a record. And you’re to blame for this too.

Bakker.

>>18837021
Being a no life incel must be rough these days.

>>18837021
>trolling outside of /b/
>spamming/flooding

Do your part.

Fuck E William Brown
Fuck Pay Pigs
They Ruin everything

>>18837047
Is this your first post on every single thread? For how many years now?

Unironically one of the best threads yet. Bakker.

>>18835328
>Book Club
Seveneves, August 15
https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/22816087-seveneves

>>18835341
Missing Robert Jordan with the Wheel of Time and Stephen King with the Dark Tower.

>>18837154
Waste of Time sucks. Poor Tolkien ripoff but minus all the magic and depth of Middle-Earth.

Making a Royal Road account, anyone want me to use their referral code? It looks like you get some points or something?

>>18837183
Here you go.
RR-02E0-515A

>>18837196

>>18837183
Are you writing?

Looking for a fantasy book :>

>>18837266
Anything other than the works of R. Scott Bakker

>>18837267
Since you were the first response, I shall hold off Bakker from being my next read at the very least. Each Bakker hater that comment delays it by another read

>>18837000
Yeah. Bakkerfags were posting a lot in the general a couple threads ago, but they were entirely talking about the books themselves. Then we had scat tranny come in and post about 30 wojaks and the threads just got raped by false flagging from there, once he realised it just looked retarded and switched to spamming every post confrontationally about bakker (something Bakker fags did not do before his spergout...hmmm).

>>18837274

Bakker is just a retarded meme. No literary value whatsoever.

>>18837239
Just reading now, I heard some anons saying Royal Roads was worth checking out in a previous thread. I have some stuff I've written that I may upload someday but first want to figure out how the site even works by poking around.

>>18835821
Le Guin isn't a good author to consume in audiobook form. She'll spend a long time doing not much other than build atmosphere, and then come to one paragraph that needs to be highlighted and underlined 5 times, and then go back to fucking around in the setting.

TLHoD is interesting more than good. Most of the Ekumen books are loosely associated rambling thought pieces, and that one more disassociated and rambling than most. I think there's a particular breed of shitlib who like it because they read her lack of moral sympathy as endorsement, which it isn't, and it's not one of her stronger works in terms of plot or character development.

I wish we got to hear more about the other Nonman mansions. I’m particularly interested in the cultures of Viri and Nihrimsûl.

>>18835821
The term 'Speculative Fiction' was developed out of a desire by some authors to separate themselves from the more pejorative aspects of the Sci Fi genre. Harlan Ellison famously hated the term 'sci fi', scorning the implication that his stories had anything in common with Flash Gordon or Lost in Space.

In Speculative Fiction, technology is not there to facilitate the plot, or to dazzle readers with fantasy, but to provide the author with an opportunity to explore the human mind in unexpected, innovative ways. The heart of the genre is an introspective exploration of the nature of reality.

Much of sci fi acts metaphorically: elements in the world act as symbols for things we recognize: the conflict between the human government and alien settlers represents the immigration issue, the planet-destroying laser shows how we feel about nuclear weapons, the super computer controls and organizes people like a cult.

Speculative fiction also acts symbolically, but it is not allegorical--there is not a one-to-one relationship between the symbols of fiction and the reality we know. Instead, the authors use thematic symbols whose meanings can change, drawing us in with an odd familiarity, a presque vu, and then dropping away, leaving us with that most fundamental of human motivations: the need for a closure we cannot seem to find.

It is the evocation of this need to discover--to know--ourselves, and thus, our world, which drives the speculative; and this is what LeGuin gives us: a thoughtful, introspective tale--a tale almost obsessively isolated, narrated from deep within the characters. We always feel their presence, we hear their observations and weigh them, and there is necessarily a constant separation between the reader and the voice on the page, a gap which exists in every story, but which we often forget is there.

The trope of the 'unreliable narrator' is a fraught trap for authors, and I recall in Gene Wolfe's 'New Sun' it became a morass where reader, narrator, and author all intermingled--and the voice was lost. In order for the method to be effective, it must be clear to the reader where the narrator falters, and where he is likely to falter.

It need not be deliberately misleading, and indeed it shouldn't be: characters who feel most confident talking about themselves usually end up giving themselves away guilelessly. I admit that I am uncertain how much of the narrator's philosophizing was LeGuin's, and I won't be until I have read more of her work, but even if the assumptions are hers, she managed to capably keep them separate from her world.

Alienated, even.

But that is her constant theme, and her story is stark: events are harsh and uncertain, and so the narrative is always driven back into the mind, into rumination, into patterns and cycles which consider the same ideas from many sides without simply repeating the same conflicts over and over.

(1/2)

>>18837425
Yet the work is not remote or brooding--it has action, it has a plot, and it has emotional character interactions. The story always moves, and it shifts, giving the occasional outside view of another character, or some piece of alien myth, which were particularly unusual and well-constructed. It is not a heavy, weary tome, but it is certainly thoughtful, and we do not get lost in the story, because we are actively interested in it, and in its outcomes, because they are made personally important.

The book held some disappointments for me--chiefly, I wished that the contemplations had delved a bit deeper, had been a bit more shocking, a bit more insightful, as the myths often were; but the narrator was stolid, in his way. I sometimes became annoyed at how thick-headed he was, how he failed to find solutions, but I sympathized in the fact that the solutions he sought were never easy to find, and that the central theme of the book was that it didn't matter if we found answers, because we so rarely ask the right questions, anyways.

The pseudo-scientific elements often felt superfluous, especially in such a character-driven story. The implications of technology and telepathy are only as interesting as their impact on society and thought. She would sometimes bring in such notions, but they were always abortive, and added little to the story. They did provide a bit of wonder, but LeGuin was too ready to analyze them, to structure them, which made them quotidian without enmeshing them meaningfully into the world she had built.

Also central was the exploration of gender, which was truly alien and speculative, but felt somewhat plodding and small. It feel true to the character, which I appreciate, but I would not have minded him breaking out of his shell, now and then, to hit on something that was a bit beyond him to really comprehend. I cannot say if the shallowness was the character's, or the author's, which means the writing was good enough to avoid transparency.

But I was left with a sense of being unsatisfied, a desire for more introspection, a deeper plunge, if only to dredge up unexpected questions. Yet the structure, the character, the world, and the tone were all so carefully, specifically laid that I felt duly impressed. This book is a work, and it is a success, and if it does not reach too high, at least it does not fall to pretension, which is the danger of any redefinition which seeks to uplift entertainment to Art.

But this is only my first LeGuin, and she deserves a second look. If she can deliver another vision, as carefully made as this one, but on a different theme, with a different sort of character, than I will be extremely impressed. If, however, she is only capable of one mode, one character, one theme--like Vonnegut--it is still a style worth experiencing at least once, and probably a handful of times.
(2/2)

>>18836275
bakker was very heavily inspired by dune

>>18837309
What are her strong character and plot books?

Bros, if I don't get my fantasy recc soon I might just have to start with Bakker after all :(

>>18835328
is the pic supposed to be what, a medieval underground station? god japs are the worst

>>18835442
Jack Vance is the best

>>18835640
sei un coglione

>>18836130
Remember that you must die.

>>18835805
post on here? the man's a salty enough bitch that he'll respond directly

>>18836885
nigga what are you smoking? can i get me some of that?

this is a reminder to everyone that it's very easy to get to heaven. watch this gospel video if you want to be 100% sure of going to heaven /lit/

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Dqw_fJeBD0

>>18836942
not sure where you're getting this "bakker was inspired by vance" shit, but it's pretty clear that his top 3 inspirations for his series were 1) being and time, 2) the silmarillion, and 3) blood meridian

i can't tell if you're just stupid or trying to create a new anecdote to brag about to make it seem like there's more to his writing than is really there

>>18836948
seems like /sffg/ is reaching its own dagliash

and we all know how wonderfully everything turned out after that part of the ordeal

>>18837697
>W-what does it say?
>That not everyone can be saved.
>And what do *you* say?
>That this a good thing.

>>18837164
i get that most of you midwits read WoT as children and so missed out on a lot of the references/world-building beyond connecting it to the trashy anime you watch, but looking at it with a more mature eye reveals it to be more than "waste of time"

it's not my favorite, it's pretty unpleasant to read after about book 7 or 8, but it's not a poor tolkien ripoff with no depth. jordan is very much responding to what tolkien tried to do with middle-earth (creating an entire legendarium for england from whole cloth) and instead spinning an american perspective on it. i'd like to see some better execution in another fantasy series, but i'm also mature enough to not just shit all over this because that's what you remember others doing when you were 14

>>18837280
as i mentioned in past threads, the bakkerfags should just buzz off over to 3 seas forum. they can have far more intelligent and pertinent discussions over there instead of shitting things up here

although, doing so would probably not be as much fun for those little bitches because there'd be no one to troll there

>>18837447
The Dispossessed and Earthsea. I would argue City of Illusions is above TLHoD in that respect as well, but it takes a while to get there. I haven't read a lot of her later work, but she seems to get a lot better at building characters and a lot more self-indulgent.

>>18837338
werthead has a pretty crazy 100 page "history of earwa" you can read, covers a lot more about the nonmen pre downfall.

i enjoyed ishterebinth, that really fascinated me. that plus sorwheel pre-TUC, akka/mimara pre-ishual, and serwa's fight with skulthula (minus the completely retarded dragon dialogue) were the only good parts of TAE

>>18837691
nigga literally admitted he was inspired by dune, the whole master intellect controlling your emotions, voice that lets you control other people, skin spies = face dancers and bene gesserict = dunyain.

>>18837425
>>18837428
Nice plagiarism copypasta.

>>18837726
That’s implying they even want to discuss things in the first place.

This is not Dagliash, this is the deepest pits of Ishterebinth…

>Most memorable…

>>18837733
Thanks. I've tried getting into her but she's been hit or miss for me.

>>18837733
>Earthsea
The thing to remember about Earthsea, like all of LeGuin's writing, is that it is less fiction that it is Taoist parable. LeGuin is a philosopher cleverly disguised as a sci-fi/fantasy writer. Her writing is beautiful and languid; her characterization and plotting range from excellent to mediocre. But character and plot serve as a vehicle for the themes of balance, simplicity and serenity that infuse all of her works.

Earthsea is, on its face, a fantasy saga along the lines of Tolkien or Rowling. But underneath the thin veneer of fantastical literary convention is a compelling story about action and consequence, and the nature of the self. Reading Earthsea as if it were fiction is missing most of the point, and will leave the reader confused. The story is told in fragments and scenes, and most of the important action takes place off the page. That seems frustrating and senseless, unless the reader understands that the "important action" is not actually the focus of the narrative.

So I finished Hero of Ages yesterday and I'm all aboard the Sanderson train now. I have no idea why you people talk shit about him, this is just the type of escapist entertainment I need after 14 hours in the popcorn mines.

>>18835559
You disappoint papa Bloom

>filters brainlets with simple Jacobean prose
How do bakker-gaybuttsex-faggots cope?

>>18837964
Give her another chance.

>>18837968
Really good post. You understand Le Guin, Anon. Earthsea is like a series of zen koans more than a mind-numbing adventure story.

Tombs of Atuan is my favorite. The Farthest Shore is also excellent.

>>18837968
TIL the guy who writes tasting notes for grocery store wines also does book reviews.

>>18838100
I try my best, anon.

>>18837958
>>18837958

>I... remember...

Indeed, we have reached the blackest bits of the Manse Chthonic. Complete with mania, severe dissociation, and plenty of violent shit-flinging.

>>18835341
>No Zelazny
Anon, pls

>>18835805
Anon, he posts here. I don't know how often he lurks but there's a decent chance he's here with us now

>>18838245
So no proof.

>>18838254
Hi Scott

>>18837733
>City of Illusions
Like the rest of the early books in the Hainish series, this one has a very familiar tone and plot We have our isolated, alienated protagonist on his quest for one single goal through an unpredictable world which he cannot comprehend, making strangely disconnected romantic liaisons on the way, and constantly lost in thought about how human relationships are supposed to work

But of all the series, this book uses these recurrent themes in the most interesting and naturalistic ways The first half of the book, where the post-apocalyptic theme is most prominent is the stronger portion LeGuin gives us many brief vignettes of our protagonist's journey across the world, each one different in tone, each one modifying the character's overall experience and giving new insight to his fundamental quest of self-discovery

Every encounter seems to reveal some aspect of the madness of humanity, but always remembering that in our mad obsessions and unpredictability lie also our wisdom, our unique experiences--something to be learned It seems telling that LeGuin's standard character psychology of an emotionally stunted paranoid works best in a story about a complete amnesiac lost in a post-apocalyptic world of deadly dangers, but kudos to her for writing to suit her habits; it's a trick more writers should use

The dystopian aspect comes on rather suddenly and completely changes the tone of the story, almost as if each half were a separate short piece loosely connected, except that the first half does not have a conclusion without the second to cap it. The dystopia of hidden psychics bears a definite resemblance to Slan, though LeGuin's is a more subtle and practiced hand

This latter arc is fairly exciting and interesting but has less of the unique vision Its tone of oppressive confusion is also somewhat repetitive, and might have benefited from the character actively switching between options rather than sitting inactively avoiding either one The character does eventually come to a conclusion, but it would have helped the depth of the conflict if the character had more actively explored the sides rather than sitting and ruminating

Then again, a lot of LeGuin's conflicts play out internally as struggles within the characters' minds This is not a bad method, but I think such conflicts play out better when such conflicts are clearly demonstrated by the character's actions and patterns of speech and behavior, bolstered here and there by a thought, rather than descending entirely into the character and leaving the plot behind for the period of digression

But despite these caveats, I found this the most varied and imaginative of LeGuin's books with a truly engrossing combination of verisimilitude and hallucinatory imagery from the cusp of madness I look forward to more LeGuin in the future, especially if this work is an indication of her evolution as a writer, who here seems almost to have found her ideal voice, if sometimes fleetingly

>>18838245
The eternal rage of the failed PhD.
Go write more children's books, Scott.

>>18838352
You know he's never going to write.

Gonna be starting this soon, is it as bad as I've heard?

>>18838378
Crossroads of Twilight isn't a terrible book, but so far in the series I would definitely rate it as the worst and most dull one. It actually doesn't start off too badly, the first 300 or so pages are decent, but there's little plot progression (although the Robert does make it clear some events of this book happen alongside the events of the previous book rather than after).

>>18838389
I'm really not looking forward to more Elayne chapters, as the series has gone on I've slowly grown to dislike her more and more. I've heard that this is the book where nothing happens but if there's still good character moments I think I'll be happy.

>>18838416
>Elayne chapters
Elayne's chapters in this one were a bit slow and dull.

>>18835439
random name generator.

>>18835328
Are there any genuinely great sci-fi/fantasy romances? Or at least books where it's a part of the plot.

>>18838480
Lord of the Fading Lands

>>18838480
Lord of the Farting Lads

>>18838480
Any fantasy novels.

>>18837968
>>18837846

>>18837497
>Not knowing what an adventure guild is

>>18837683
Wrong. You don’t pray to be saved. That is a work. Only the children of God have their prayers answered

>>18836720
>>18836833
Has sffg reached the point where people just randomly repost older posts?
Not like I get why “people” shitpost they unfun stuff for months to no end. But just genuine stuff some anon wrote?
Or are these just jannies trying to artificially raise the thread standard? Its not the first post I recognize and I doubt it will be the last.

>>18838600
>Has sffg reached the point where people just randomly repost older posts?
Bakkerfags have been repeating the same shit several threads now. Other anons recognize it and complained about it.

>>18838600
>Has sffg reached the point where people just randomly repost older posts?
Don’t pin this on /sffg/. Just blame the bakkerfags for shitting up the thread.

>>18838337
>LeGuin
She sounds interesting to read.

>>18838627
She really is, LeGuin is more of a philosopher cleverly disguised as a sci-fi/fantasy writer and the fact that she isn't read here is a shame.

How much of an essential read is this one? Having trouble finding a hard copy

>>18838638
This book stands out among Heinlein's juveniles - arguably the best of the batch.

But it's more than just a great book. It's also a defining moment in an entire movement in SF towards realistic science. This doesn't mean that the characterization or plot needs to take on secondary or incidental importance. It just means that all efforts must be taken to ensure that the science works.

So, it's the exact opposite type of novel from what A.E. van Vogt was writing. In his works (somewhat common for the early years), the science was gibberish. Often just scientific-sounding vocabulary was enough, and no more explanation or emphasis on the science was provided. The character, then, had to be some type of superman: larger-than-life in some kind of unique manner. Perhaps they had ESP, or perhaps they had the superstrength, or could read minds...

And this was needed, because if the technology in a novel is completely made up, then you can always solve any situation by just creating some weird new device, which will frustrate readers (somewhat like deus ex machina perhaps). So you need to give the character some special powers and then use that to build suspense.

But... Heinlein did it differently in his juveniles.

He basically transitioned from super-character to super-smart character, asking "what if it were cool to be really smart", and thus his characters had no special powers at all - other than that they obviously listened during science class. They had the scientific background to understand (and explain) basic principles, and also to find ways to use ingenuity to apply this knowledge. And this means that the science has to be correct, or the book won't work.

And thus began a revolution in science fiction. "Hard science fiction" was born, and slowly began to gain prominence. I submit that if not for Heinlein's juveniles there would be no Larry Niven.

So thanks Heinlein, for making it cool to be smart. For making the science studied in high school become the tools needed to resolve a novel's conflict. For making a generation of budding engineers think in creative ways if there's yet another way to apply scientific knowledge.

Now, of course, hard SF has moved away from juvenile novels, and usually involves much higher degrees of scientific innovation. Perhaps it's a bit intimidating to a non-SF reader to try to understand what a ramscoop ship is, and perhaps that's at least one supporting basis for the current steampunk surge.

Heinlein's juveniles represent a zeitgeist in science fiction. He was the right guy at the right time, and these books were widely accessible to young readers who didn't have television or internet.

>>18838602
>>18838605
Honestly, this makes me just sad.
I liked reading Bakker. I even liked reading people discussing his works.
But this? This is not even shitposting, which I can easily ignore. This is trying to get rid of the last few attempts of discussing anything worthwhile here. Now I must second guess any post, even when I can read honest curiosity out of it? The ground for any meaningful exchange? No, I will not.

I am baffled and curious why people would do this. But it’s not like I will get any answers here.

>>18838667
Certainly this is false flag made by Bakker haters

>>18838646
>Heinlein
God, I almost hate the fact that he ain’t getting no love and the movie starship trooper is a parody.

>>18838646
You've convinced me. Thanks for the thorough write up.

>>18838692
No, problem. Hope you enjoy the read.

What philosophers should I read to understand Bakker

>>18835430
Yes

>>18838667
Well, I’m sorry for your loss, but it was to be expected.

>>18838713
Reading Stranger in Strange land and loving it. My first of his. Loading up on anything of his I can find

Is Throne of Glass a literary masterpiece?

>>18838744
>Reading Stranger in Strange land and loving it.
That’s good to hear, some people get filtered.

>>18836693
Oh fuck, I read this series. This was the shit when I was growing up.

>>18836693
I've been eyeing this for my nephew. Though I heard Warrior cat is good as well.

>>18838794
Warrior Cats is insanely popular among kids
t. librarian

>>18838833
So, Warrior cat first then Redwall?

>>18838839
I don't know, I never read either

>>18838847
Well shit. Thanks anyways.

Should I start discworld?
Is it comfy?

>>18838863
Yes, you should start Discworld, the Color of Magic is, in fact, four novella-length stories stitched together to create a novel-length book. But don't you worry, the book reads well as a whole without a jerking bump to stop the journey. I wouldn't have even noticed the stitching if I haven't known it was there.

As the story starts, Rincewind a disgraced wizard meets up with Twoflower an oblivious tourist and his rather menacing walking luggage (yes, with a luggage like Twoflower's you don't have to worry about carry your things around; the several pairs of feet under the large chest will follow you keeping your belongings close by and always safe... did I mention the luggage may eat anyone trying to rob you?).

Wizard and tourist are thrown together by unforeseen, and fantastic -but not at all unbelievable- circumstances, and soon engage in a tour of Discworld (the alternate universe born from Pratchett's supreme inventiveness). The tour is funny and surprising, and the story will carry you around without effort. However, if you're looking for a tight plot, consistent world building, or if silly British humor annoys you, this novel, and all Discworld for all that matters, may not be for you. The plot does meander a bit, but Pratchett's writing skills keep your focus somewhere else, so you don't even care.

One thing is clear even in this the first novel of the Discworld series, Pratchett has bucket loads of talent. If you like to laugh, then Pratchett's your man. His comedy timing is fantastic, and he possesses the intellect and the ability to make you laugh out loud regardless if you like, or read, or are even familiar with fantasy (nonetheless, some familiarity with the basic tropes of fantasy will aid in your enjoyment).

However, if you've read other Discoworld novels, you will notice that when it comes to topical humor, this novel is a bit thinner than Pratchett's later additions to the series; understandable, since it was written more tan two decades ago. Now, regardless of it age, the novel still feels remarkably fresh , mostly thanks to the imperishable quality of humor in which we laugh at ourselves.

>>18838879
>>18838646
nigger
https://www.goodreads.com/review/show/85394037
https://www.goodreads.com/review/show/2214955831

>>18838887
Imagine seething for trying to help other anons.

>>18838863
Yes
Yes

>>18838888
Oh not the anon called you nigger but I assumed you were shitposting, cool
>>18838897
Ty

>>18838909
Not even the anon who tried to help you, but why would you think he was shitposting.

>>18838914
Cause I got a quick response that was very long and too positive

>>18838929
What? You expected him to say how shit the series is?

>>18838914
>Not even the anon who tried to help you
lol sure thing buddy

>>18838950
Take your meds, schizo.

>>18838950
Believe what you want to believe, but I ain’t him.

>>18837726
By that logic there should be no discussion since there are places everywhere for fan communities to make profiles and discuss. Copper-whatever-the-fuck for the Sandersöi and specific reddit groups for almost anything else.
Nobody what’s to make a gay retarded profile though, hence why everyone is here; anonymity. Or something closer to it.

>>18838961
Speak for yourself, I go to a forum of ice and fire.

>>18838954
>>18838953
wow are you going to reply to me three times next time i post?

>>18838967
Take your meds.

New thread
>>18838974

>>18838932
On 4chan?
Yeah

>>18837726
No.