/lit/ - Literature

Buddhism is the most bullshit religion, literally all teachings are filled with contradictions.

>Dukkha dukkha dukkha dukkha dukkha dukkha dukkha dukkha dukkha dukkha dukkha dukkha dukkha dukkha dukkha dukkha dukkha dukkha
>Hahhhh

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UeS-Xb5u4-U

>>18829779
footage of actual buddhist reaching nirvana

babump

terrible thread

>>18831810
It sound like the conversation I have with my wife everytime I ask about what she's reading.

>>18829771
But religions are supposed to open your mind to paradoxical, non-rational modes of thinking. If every teaching is contradictory then it's the perfect religion.

>>18831867
>bro religions are supposed to be dumb
Bravo

>>18829760
based.

>>18831867
Even Nagarjuna embraces the law of non-contradiction.

>>18829760
>wouldn't that line of thinking bring one even more attachment to the world by perceiving it as a part of oneself
The collective soul of human kind isn't the same as "the world"

>>18829760
I mean once you achieve nirvana you can't un-achieve it, right? Might as well fuck some bitches after that point

>>18829760
Isn't this talk about compassion and having to worry about all other beings achieving nirvana specific to Mahayana (later) Buddhism? I read about it Borges' essay about Buddhism and he sees it as a form of decadence, but it seems his view is mainly based on 19th century scholarship and now, of course, out of date.

>>18832549
That's pretty much the same criticism Mahayana Buddhism levels against Theravada.

>>18829760
>>but buddha ji! if nothing matters
There are still retards to this day who think the Buddha taught "nothing matters."
Schopenhauer was possible the biggest mistake in the history of Buddhism.

>>18829771
Buddhism is a nihilistic philosophy in its original form, expressed through Indian culture.

>>18829760
The idea behind compassion is not that you should be attached to people, it's that compassion is in opposition to himsa (harm). Buddhism does not say that "nothing matters", it says that attachment and passions create more pain than pleasure in the long run, and the only way to free yourself from samsara (the cycle of reincarnation) and stop reincarnating (which is bad) is to let go of all attachment. Obviously if Buddhism taught that "nothing matters" it would say nothing against hedonism and passions.
You understand nothing about Buddhism, it's not a philosophy, it's a religion, it all revolves around Karma and escaping reincarnation.
Absolutely baffled at all the people buying into this.

>attachments are bad
>yeah, buddha was like just take it easy man
>NOOOOOOOOO NO HE FUCKIN WASN'T DID U EVEN READ THE SUTTAS, BUDDHISM IS [TL;DR]

>>18832578
Ok 19th century cringeoid man

why don't more people simply apotheosize

>>18832549
See >>18832582 Buddhism doesn't advocate compassion to help others reach Nirvana. Compassion is about not feeding more bad Karma into existence, not doing so means you get a bad reincarnation. Buddhism is a religion, it's not stoicism

>>18829760
not only did you have an argument with yourself but you were so impressed with the fact that you won that you had to boast about it on the internet

>there is no self
>also if you misbehave you'll turn into a lobster

>>18831867
No, religions are supposed to be true

>everything is an illusion
>but you can trust my teachings

>>18829760

I can never tell if stawman attacks like this on particular religions and philosophies (stoicism most often) are ironic parodies or the actual thoughts of edgy 16 year olds

guys i think i might be a western buddhist

>>18832875
Buddhism is ridiculous and doesn’t get made fun of nearly enough.

>>18832725
he's right tho

>>18832909
Hitler?

>>18832935
i was talking about the anon. i dont know hitler's beliefs.

>>18832988
I am the Anon in question, and I can indeed verify, I am literally Hitler.
For real though, you look at Buddhism from the perspective of 19th century Western philosophy. I don't believe that can capture it.
Also I was pretty proud of the King Crimson reference, so laugh, faggot!

>>18832996
>For real though, you look at Buddhism from the perspective of 19th century Western philosophy. I don't believe that can capture it.
why not? it certainly has some parallels with nihilism.
>Also I was pretty proud of the King Crimson reference, so laugh, faggot!
i dont know what king crimson is. i see its some boomer band now tho. you're a boomer man?

okay but fr what is the justification fr compassion in buddhism

>>18833011
>i dont know what king crimson is. i see its some boomer band now tho.
anon please get some fucking taste

>>18832569
>I have no idea what I'm talking about, but I still shit the thread with my retarded post

>>18833026
he tossed that in there to make sure people wouldnt turn into assholes or egoists.

>>18833049
But what's for justification for him being compassionate? Or bodhisattvas?

>>18833035
dude they're literally boomers lol. from what i can tell its somewhat experimental boomer rock with songs that last way too long. if that's what you like, then good for you, but i dont.

>>18833026
if you're not compassionate you'll go to hell or reincarnate as a slug

>>18833011
Nihilism is without meaning. Nirvana is above meaning. You're so clueless, are you 17? Learn to orient yourself, imbecile

>>18833067
>insults
If you can't uphold the eightfold path, you have no right to tell others what buddhism is or isn't

I think OP is baiting by pretending to be retarded, it's an ancient technique.

>>18833073
Hahaha what an easy copout.
Okok, so, take your pick, which are you?

A: mindless simple theist
B: confused new age syncretist/muddler
C: dishonest atheist
D: silly teenager

Eyes on the money, which gate do you choose big boy?

>>18833081
E. A handsome genius

>>18833067
>Nirvana is above meaning
is nirvana not achieved by disconnection with life around you? after all, through so much long and intense meditation you miss out on a lot of life, especially if all your time is spent in a temple.

>>18833093
Nice

>>18833094
I don't think so. Nihilism is attachment thru rejection, and up until Enlightenment I deem pleasures just as dangerous cause they can make you cling. Experiencing something =/= clinging.
It's just that for most if us, me too, they're yoked,and cause your experience is bound to that clinging you're enslaved.
An enlightened individual shouldn't be sullied by anything by definition, as conditioned existence is "integrated" /left behind, whichever way you wish to look at it

>>18833104
>I deem pleasures just as dangerous cause they can make you cling
whats wrong with clinging? the way i see it, everytime we eat, drink, and breathe we establish our attachment to life and hope to further cling to it.

>>18833126
You're clinging to that which is conditioned.
Are you hammer or nail?
Naturally not everyone ought to walk that path, so it is what it is. Don't try to deny the higher by insisting on the lower, bro.

>>18833135
sounds like ur clinging to the higher, bro

>>18833152
Lol no, that's not working on me Zoomboy

>>18833126
Clinging means that you suffer when the thing is gone. Yes, by breathing and eating you establish attachment to life, this means you fear death. This is why Buddhist monks traditionally eat insipid food and they constantly remind themselves that what they eat is dead matter, it's not good. Eating should be just to sustain one's body. Some monks in more hardcore traditions brought this to an extreme by putting themselves into the mold of a statues and eating the bare minimum in nuts and seeds to achieve self-mummification.

>>18833165
Then explain why the Buddha was obese and very happy about the fact.

>>18833135
this is pretty vague desu.

im not sure what you consider to be "that which is conditioned". after all, conditioning is part of life. those that aren't conditioned for it, die off the fastest.
i dont know what you mean by "that path". what path?
i dont know what you're referring to as "the higher". what is it?

>>18833171
Oh god, please say you're a troll. Are you that deluded?
The fat man is Budai, buddy.
I'm now 80% sure you're a troll

>>18833094
>achieved by disconnection
Not at all. Nirvana is caused by the lack of clinging. Clinging is not the same thing as desire (which has multiple meanings in English) and its not the same thing as will. This isn't Jainism or whatever weird sex-cult Augustine wanted to turn Christianity into, Buddhism is "the Middle Path" for a reason.

This idea is taken to an extreme with Mahayana ideas of Bodhisattvas who are so skilled that they are capable of seducing and then dicking demons in order to calm them down and then teach them the Dharma. Don't be a retard and miss what's obviously being said here: that clinging is the problem, not the action itself independent of the clinging. All things are Empty, so obviously actions must be as well.

>>18833126
Other than that it leads to rebirth, death, ignorance, dukkha, etc? Nothing. If you don't want out, you're free to remain a Householder and keep rebirthing. Not everyone can, or even should, be a monk.

>>18833175
Umm ackshully, Budai is Maitreya, i.e. a Buddha

buddha
>another plate? don't mind if i do
monk
>NOOOOOOOO FOOD IS JUST DEAD MATTER WHAT ARE YOU DOING
buddha *stuffing his face*
>stop clinging, faggot

>>18833173
Eveey phenomenon is conditioned. Holding onto it means you are clingin to something transient. That means you are filling your life more and more with that which surely delivers its opposite soon enough. That means your clinging will bind you to endless up and down.
Now, you're wholly tamasic, and I'll let it slide cayse you're obviously underage. Either of those is why you can't imagine a state beyond.
An obsession with escaping clinging is clinging itself. That's the reason for the middle path.
The higher is an inadequate wording of that which lies at the axle of the wheel, unmoving. That which neither clings nor opposes. That which simply lets happen, and produces all opposites, which depend on each other to arise.

>>18833181
>>18833187
Atleast these are entertaining, unlike the trollish questions. Good job, Anon, you faggot

>>18833181
Ah, but you see anon said "the Buddha", implying reference to Siddhartha Gautama, not just any Buddha!

>>18833187
Based.

>>18832423
Pretty much. Just remember that following the buddha worship religion aka buddhism is never going work for that.

>>18833180
>>18833192
i dont understand. there seems to be some clear hypocrisy here. you claim clinging is bad yet you cling to buddhist beliefs and the eightfold path so much so that you ignore your own biological functions to do so. how do you justify clinging to this one thing but not other things?

you claim conditioning and clinging is bad because it sets you up for hardship, however to even follow the eightfold path you must have given up some form of clinging, meaning you whatever thing you cling to now is something you can overcome clinging to in the future.

>>18833198
Excellent point, but didn't Bodhidharma say that we are all buddha?

>>18833207
>But you're clinging to letting go of clinging!
Correct. You lose that clinging when you let go of clinging.

>But you'd have to do that all at once, otherwise you'd still have clinging!
Correct. You lose them gradually, in order of most harmful to least harmful, until at last you stop clinging to the Three Vehicles. This isn't hypocrisy, it's just Skillful Means. The point isn't to create some kind of autistically self-referentially rigid body of mathematical logic or whatever, it's to get people to stop suffering.

>>18833057
it's not compassion in like being a nicenice faggot, it's to turn your mind from the rut it is and make you realise yourself.

>>18833207
You're in a garden, surrounded by a wall with a thousand gates. Only one leads to the exact north, and out. The others lead god knows where, but not out. Nobody returns after going through any of the gates.
Somewhere in the garden is even an inscription, which says that true north leads out.
In the middle of the garden is a big ottoman buttfuck circle. You are in this circle. It goes round and round, ever merrier.
You see a man pick up a compass, a tool, a science that is. He moves to one exact gate, and wishes to go through it.
You are so preoccupied and obsessed with buttfucking and getting buttfucked so that you don't realize the compass being a compass.
You cry out in a gay moan "haha look at that fool"
That's you.
Enjoy the circle :)

>>18832753
and the internet agreed. Based OP! :^)

>>18833213
you say its to stop suffering yet the eightfold path involves intense suffering. the normal, western lifestyle involves far less suffering what you propose.
what makes one suffering more justified than the other?

>>18832549
>>18832555
VAJRAYANA >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

>>18833234
Not him, but the buddhist path actually works. The "normal western lifestyle" can be boiled down to: pursue the fulfillment of your desires, but us being humans naturally selected to never be satisfied, when we fullfill our deepest desires, we are still left unfulfilled and an existential dread that no achievement or material thing will ever lead us to be truly happy. At this top-of-the-hill moment, the human can choose to set his sight on a higher hill, or just roll down-hill with drugs and alcohol.They then repeat this until death. I would hardly call it involving "far less suffering". The buddha probably realized this and figured a non-sensical way to convince people to drop this cat-and-mouse unhappiness game. Who gives a fuck if it doesn't make sense, no one actually wants shit to make sense, they just want to boost their ego by showing others or themselves that they grasp something complicated, but deep down like all other humans and beings, they wan to minimize their suffering.

>>18833241
is that the one where you jerk off all the time and worship demons

>>18833165
This kinda spiritual shit whereby one denies themselves the pleasure and satisfaction of matter just in the name of some 'higher calling' is retarded. We are clearly a byproduct of both matter and soul, so why act like one's superior over the other, especially since you don't even really know what the soul's properties are without a body to host it?

>>18833266
>Not him, but the buddhist path actually works
works to what to extent? from what i understand, not everyone is guaranteed to reach nirvana.
>pursue the fulfillment of your desires, but us being humans naturally selected to never be satisfied
the disconnect here is you see any act towards fulfillment as suffering and all suffering as bad (though paradoxically not bad if it's in pursuit of the nirvana). the truth is that for many people that path to fulfillment can be enjoyable. for example, drawing the picture is enjoyable even if you wont be satisfied until you've fulfilled the desire to finish it. sometimes, often times, just working towards fulfillment is satisfying.
satisfaction comes and goes which is the drive to live, thrive, create, and evolve. its this drive, among many other things, that separates us from inanimate objects. with that in mind, the desire to be eternally satisfied, to escape all desires, is the desire for death.

OP here :)
You guys are so fucking cute :)

>>18829760
Kek maa chod diye bhai

>>18829760
>>but buddha! ji doesn't compassion bring attachment and therefore, dukkha, with it?
>no
there you go

>>18833026
it is not e necessity, you can just nope the fuck out yourself and call it a day, that's where we get the arhat/boddhisatva distinction from
that being said once you are enlightened you are out of the equation, to you, whether you help or dont help is of no consequence. It is, however of consequence to those that can be helped so why not do it?

>>18833337
>he truth is that for many people that path to fulfillment can be enjoyable. for example, drawing the picture is enjoyable even if you wont be satisfied until you've fulfilled the desire to finish it.

Yes I agree with you and I thought about addressing this in my post, but I thought it's pretty obvious that the most likely reason someone would be drawing today, besides the inherent pleasure in drawing, is training for one day make his/her living off of drawing, AT THE MOST MODEST, and being the most recognized artist of all time, at the most ambitious. Part of this is human nature, part of this is brainwashing by society: the feeling that what you do is only worthwhile if it makes you money. So in order to truly draw for pleasure and only pleasure, you must un-cling from your aspirations, so that you won't become frustrated when your first, hundredth or one thousandth painting sells for $1. This is where buddhism and the 8-fold path comes in handy, it outlines guidelines engineered to be the most effective at stopping this circle of suffering every human auto-imposes himself by biology and societal customs. So you get the benefits of the "drive that separates us from inanimate objects", without the downsides of being disappointed when what that drive tells you to do doesn't lead to the happiness it appeared to be working up to during the pursuit.

>>18831867
Your comment sounds like it was said by a character from an Oscar Wilde book.

>>18833384
>This is where buddhism and the 8-fold path comes in handy
up until to the point where tries to relinquish desires, sure, but its not at all necessary. you can achieve much of the same thing by just being realistic in your expectations and pursuing something that you genuinely enjoy the process of creating. this is the basic logic behind liberal belief and why america's constitution was designed the way it was.
with this all being said, disappointment and suffering are part of growth. they shouldn't be feared, since it only leads to stagnation and misery.

>>18833135
>Are you hammer or nail?
No, I am a human being.

>>18833595
No you're not

>>18833845
I see no reason to believe you

>>18833998
Ok, get to the bottom of your humanity. Where's it stem from?

>>18832852
and why should truth obey your intuition

>>18833227
>Enjoy the circle :)
oh I will

>>18829760
>why are you teaching me? why don't you simply sit in a corner
nigga he at first didnt even wanna tell ppl masses but then some ppl persuaded him to teach
even after that he still said his teaching is not for everyone

>>18834164
It need not. I was speaking about the point of religion, not it’s form.

>>18833227
Why do I want to leave the garden? Sure it’s full of faggots, but so is any public place nowadays. I think I’ll go through one of the gates and explore.

>>18832578
How were the Buddha and other arahants/bodhisattas able to levitate, teleport, read minds, switch bodies, speak with angels/gods, and perform numerous other miracles if they followed a nihilist path?

>>18835867
its simple. they didn't.

What is the buddhist argument to justify reincarnation? I mean, how are they so sure that we reincarnate?

Buddhism is true in that some form of nirvana is real. (as a state of higher awareness).
Hinduism is true in that Brahman is real.
Christianity is true in that Jesus is God.

Imagine that...
As for the the other two major religions, Judaism inspired Jesus to follow the path of mysticism. and Islam was inspired by Christianity but perverted for the sake of personal power above others.

>>18836812
Buddhism has states of higher awareness. It does not refer to them as nirvana. Since you couldn't do basic reading on that, the rest of your post is probably also based on misreadings and vague assumptions.

>>18836832
You need to reread the scriptures.
Nirvana is described as infinite luminous consciousness without center.

>>18836848
>the scriptures
This is Buddhism we're talking about. There's hundreds of them

>>18836669

>>18833062
Zoomer faggot. Get off my board.

>>18836848
That's the Third Jhana, not Nirvana. They're clearly elucidated as distinct states. Nirvana is beyond both pleasure and pain, consciousness and non-consciousness.

>>18833320
Phaedo

>>18829760
Jesus Christ is the Lord.

>>18837908
fags are based tho. the greeks were gay as fuck.

>>18837920
Wrong.
While the third Jhana is the infinity of consciousness, Nirvana itself is also portrayed as limitless consciousness without feature and circumference, luminous all around.
In both Theravada and Dzogchen.

>>18829760
Is SMT /lit/core?

>>18838528
The luminous mind in dzogchen is nirvana?

>>18833038
meta