/lit/ - Literature

>>18819553
I converted to Catholicism and got baptised during a tradlarper phase however I am now agnostic. I'm not sure why anyone would be religious in the absence of some kind of mystical experience or other compelling evidence (rationalistic justifications for metaphysical beliefs seem like paper dragons). The problem of religious justification and authority perplexes me. I really want to know what steps are involved in the mind's assent to religious dogmas.

I strive to make my life here good, instead of dreaming of goodness elsewhere. I don't desire something more if I already have enough.
Life isn't necessarily about anything at all.

>>18819553
Knowing (((the writers))) they were just thinking about how to get shekels while subverting all other Canaanite nations.

>>18819553
I was raised catholic but as I got older I grew to both resent god and find less and less reasons to believe in him.
On one side things I thought needed god to be explained turned out to have perfectly good alternative theories, and on the other, I started perceiving his world as deeply unfair, but I still couldn't let go of him. At 11-12 years old I was slowly starting to reject god, and started doubting everything in christianity and the moral code I'd been taught.

In the end I decided that even if god existed, I wouldn't idolize him. It seemed to me that he was at best incompetent, and at worst evil, neither of which was worth my time.
So I don't really care if there's something else. But if there is, it'll make fore a nice surprise.

>>18819553
Today I have worked a lot under the heat and I crashed on the bed afterwards. I was too tired to think, except I thought "if I do this always I can believe in God"
Maybe I'm figuring things out. Keep myself busy as much as I can, it's the only way to put the rest of the world behind a screen

The real meaning of life, both now and in eternity, is found in the restoration of our relationship with God. This restoration is only possible through God’s Son, Jesus Christ, who reconciles us to God (Romans 5:10; Acts 4:12; John 1:12; 14:6). Salvation and eternal life are gained when we trust in Jesus Christ as Savior. Once that salvation is received by grace through faith, Christ makes us new creations, and we begin the progressive journey of growing closer to Him and learning to rely on Him.

God wants us to know the meaning of life. Jesus said, “I have come that they may have life, and have it to the full” (John 10:10). A “full” life is logically one that is meaningful and devoid of aimless wandering.

The meaning of life is wrapped up in the glory of God. In calling His elect, God says, “Bring all who claim me as their God, for I have made them for my glory. It was I who created them” (Isaiah 43:7). The reason we were made is for God’s glory. Any time we substitute our own glory for God’s, we miss the meaning of life. “If anyone would come after me, he must deny himself and take up his cross and follow me. For whoever wants to save his life will lose it, but whoever loses his life for me will find it” (Matthew 16:24–25). “Delight yourself in the LORD and he will give you the desires of your heart” (Psalm 37:4).

>>18821847
Why do Christposters think quoting the Bible convinces anyone? Don't they realise the authority of the Bible is the thing in question, and the thing in need of demonstration?

>>18819553
Life is more precious when you realize this is all you have.
You begin to resist your captors orders.

>>18821896
>And I wanted to know, from a complete stranger, why are you/aren't you religious Anon?
I am religious because I know experientially and rationally that God is real, and I know rationally and epistemologically that Christianity is the True religion.
>Don't you think there is something more?
Yes.
>What do you believe life's about?
To glorify God, and perfect our souls in preparation for the beatific vision of Heaven.

>And I wanted to know, from a complete stranger, why are you/aren't you religious Anon?
I am religious because I know experientially and rationally that God is real, and I know rationally and epistemologically that Christianity is the True religion.
>Don't you think there is something more?
Yes.
>What do you believe life's about?
To glorify God, spread love, and perfect our souls through the imitation of Christ, in preparation for the beatific vision of Heaven.

>>18819553
I love OT.

>>18822354
>I am religious because I know experientially and rationally that God is real, and I know rationally and epistemologically that Christianity is the True religion.
Would you care to explain how?
Also, do you think that Jews and Muslims are half right in their beliefs?

>>18819599
>I really want to know what steps are involved in the mind's assent to religious dogmas.

Pic related. It's in the public domain.

https://www.newmanreader.org/works/grammar/index.html

>>18822426
>Would you care to explain how?
Which of the four explanation would you like to hear?

>Also, do you think that Jews and Muslims are half right in their beliefs?
The modern-day Rabbinic Jews are right insofar as they agree that the Torah, Ketuvim, and Nevi'im are inspired by God - and they are wrong on many other counts. "Muslims" are too fractured and distinct in their beliefs to classify in a short response, but for ease of answering, all modern-day Muslims are right insofar as the portions of stories which Muhammad retold, which are present in the Tanakh and Gospel, did, in fact, occur (though usually not in the way he describes). Sunni Muslims are also right insofar as they proclaim Jesus as the Messiah, and the Blessed Virgin Mary to have conceived Him by the power of the Spirit of God, although their understanding of what this all means is incorrect.

TL;DR To say they are half-right would be far too much of an overstatement, but they both have some things right, and many things wrong.

>>18822426
>Would you care to explain how?
Which of the four explanation would you like to hear?

>Also, do you think that Jews and Muslims are half right in their beliefs?
The modern-day Rabbinic Jews are right insofar as they agree that the Torah, Ketuvim, and Nevi'im are inspired by God - and they are wrong on many other counts. "Muslims" are too fractured and distinct in their beliefs to classify in a short response, but for ease of answering, all modern-day Muslims are right insofar as the portions of stories which Muhammad retold, which are present in the Tanakh and Gospel, did, in fact, occur (though usually not in the way he describes). All modern-day Muslims are also right insofar as they proclaim Jesus as the Messiah, and the Blessed Virgin Mary to have conceived Him by the power of the Spirit of God, although their understanding of what this all means is incorrect.

TL;DR To say they are half-right would be far too much of an overstatement, but they both have some things right, and many things wrong.

>>18821864
I think it's more like further reading than an argument in itself.

>>18822644
I would love to hear any kind of explanation of how you are so sure of gods existence

>>18823188
Initially, an experience of mystical union that I had no proper lens of interpreting, but which left me with the obvious realization that God existed.
Secondarily, a spiritual search throughout most live options for true religions (different forms of Hinduism, Buddhism, Judaism, Islam, Syncretism/Perennialism and Christianity).
Thirdly, based on not having a coherent system to weigh the truth claims of these differing systems, a deep dive into epistemology, especially historical science and the nature of truths.
Fourth, using the newly solidified epistemological system to figure out the true religion from all of the live options, weighed equally on their respective evidential data.
Fifth, the realization that Christianity has the strongest claim to truth when compared with every other religion.
Sixth, the using the epistemological system to determine which denomination of Christianity is the church founded by Jesus Christ.
Seventh, after the realization that the Catholic Church is the church founded by Jesus Christ, looking into the different metaphysical systems taught within it.
Eighth, the realization that Thomism is the superior metaphysical system within the Church.
Ninth, the Five Ways, and the subsequent dive into Aristotelian metaphysics, gave me the rational basis to be metaphysically and rationally sure of God's existence.
Tenth, subsequent debates have made me even more sure of the fact that these arguments, and the system backing them, can stand up to, and even overcome, every system I have encountered.

>>18819553
I had a mystic experience while fasting desu, really recommend it

>>18823263
>Seventh, after the realization that the Catholic Church is the church founded by Jesus Christ
Can you explain this part?

>>18823492
Sure. The most obvious epistemological intuition after accepting part 5) was to explore what the earliest Christians believed. We know what the evangelists recorded in the Gospels, we have the epistles of John, Peter, and James, and we know what St. Paul thought (which we know was also shared with the rest of the early church leadership, as when St. Peter calls Paul's letters "scripture" in his second epistle). From here, you are left with the obvious fact that there was an early church with presbyters and bishops, which had a hierarchical structure based upon the apostles, who they appointed, and their successors. Looking into the period after this (the ante-Nicene fathers, specifically the Apostolic Fathers), clearly reinforces this model of church hierarchy, such as in Clement of Rome's exhortation regarding the unlawfully deposed bishops.

The question, then, is, which ancient and apostolic church is the continuation of the one created in Matthew 16:18? The Protestants themselves admit they are not the ancient apostolic church, so that narrows down the choices by ~30,000+ denominations. The remaining live options are Catholicism, Russian Orthodoxy, Greek Orthodoxy, the Church of the East and the Assyrian Church of the East, the Ethiopian Orthodox, and some other churches which the historical community would deem apostolic in origin.

After exploring the differences between these, it becomes clear that the deciding factor is whether one is in communion with the bishop of Rome as the marker of orthodoxy, as is clearly outlined by St. Irenaeus and St. Cyprian of Carthage (among many others). The issues like the Filioque come secondary to the fact that there is a clear and demonstrable belief in the necessity of communion with the bishop of Rome to be in the church of Christ, which is found extremely early, and by extremely authoritative fathers (like St. Irenaeus, who was only one person removed from St. John the Evangelist, and thus an extremely important witness to the apostolic Johannine tradition). I could probably elaborate on this point for hours, but in the end, it comes down to either believing that one of the other of the Russian or Greek national churches, which are in schism with one another, is the one true church of Christ, despite neither being in communion with the bishop of Rome.

The only logical choice was Catholicism, or a church in communion with the Catholic church. There are many other reasons why I came to this conclusion (eg. lack of ability for EO "church" to convene a council in the absence of an emperor or Pope, lack of agreement on critical teachings like divorce and remarriage and contraceptives, etc.), but this is quite a long post already.

Happy to elaborate on any of these points.

>>18821896
If there is no God, there is only nihilism. And this is why I have more respect for nihilists than for happy normies like you, at least they are somewhat rational, even though they are wrong.

>>18824593
Even though the Catholic Church has fallen completely to the wayside?
I'm also paging you to answer >>18826028 in that thread

>>18824593
Not him, but thank you for all of this. I've come to conclusion of God and Christianity too, but an conflicted between Orthodoxy and Catholicism.
I suppose my issue is, and forgive me if I'm not wholly informed, the current state of the Catholic Church as >>18826046 says, I don't know what to make of it myself, it's surely reconcilable... but I'm lost , so to speak.

>>18824593
>Russian or Greek national churches, which are in schism with one another
Anon, please.

(In reality, it's only the Roman national church that is in schism with the 14+ other bishops.)

>>18826228
My biggest issue with Catholicism isn't even the corrupt hierarchy as much as what happens in the churches themselves. You go to a Catholic mass and it's miserable. It's clearly all geared for old people with crooked souls who do it as a social display to show that their conscience is clean. Everything is watered down and dumbed down, there are disgusting little meaningless songs and the old hags one-up each other singing them louder than the next. Everyone involved is guaranteed to be evil, lawless and corrupt. It's all so awful, the ceremonies are not ritualistic, they feel like posturing through a set of motions. There is no spirituality whatsoever in the Catholic Churches, the only way to feel the presence of God is to walk into something pre-modern that was made by actually faithful people and feel what's still lingering of their faith from the walls and statues. Go into a more modern church and there's nothing to hold on to make it feel like you're in a sacred place.
It's as if everything in the modern Church was made specifically to cater to posturing agnostics rather than people who try to live with God in their lives.

>>18819553
I go through phases of increased religiosity but it's always rather vague and instinctual. I've always found Christianity to be very drab and uninspiring and the notion that it holds a monopoly on access to Divinity, let alone the Catholic church, is laughable to me.

>>18819553
>And I wanted to know, from a complete stranger, why are you/aren't you religious Anon?
Because philosophical and scientific thinking since then has advanced tremendously, 99% of people only follow a religion because they grew up with it, practicing faith requires too much of a suspension of my rationality to accept a god who transcends both sensual and intuitive knowledge.
Also I have found most practioners of religion to be rather dimwitted and hypocritical.

>>18826290
God isn't your personal jester, buddy.

Catholicism is based precisely because it is so evil! It is a den of sodomy and libertinism, made out in the most fabulous clothes! The red robes, the capes, the incense! Oh, darling, what an orgy of sensation!

>>18826275
I would like to reconcile with this issue too, as it depresses me much.

>>18826313
Ironic considering that's exactly what Christians claim he was in the case of the OT and the Jews.

>>18826290
In ipso vita erat,
et vita erat lux hominum:
et lux in tenebris lucet,
et tenebræ eam non comprehenderunt.

>>18826338
Your spellcasting has no effect on me.

>>18826338
>tfw you can read and understand this natively
not sure if my pronunciation is right though

Thank God I'm Orthodox Christian

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nBrWH4cjyhE

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IRcFAg_hDt8