/lit/ - Literature

>capitalism
Nice try amerishit

Yes, we all will be by 2030.

>>18812291
it is alredy socialist with chinese charecteristics

>>18812291
China is a capitalist country ran by a communist government in the name of pragmatism.

I think it's like a process.

https://youtu.be/-GCLAjs1EUw?t=534

>>18812291
No, the Chinese folks patiently wait till the old communists die out.
And THEN their global economic domination will only start. There will be no survivors among the Western leftist "welfare state democracies".

>>18813932
Also they're not going for the military solution like the USSR but the cultural / economic victory Civ-style.

>>18812291
there's no such thing as "market socialism". but yes, the region that is currently occupied by the Chinese state will belong to the communist society following the communist revolution.

>>18813993
>There will be no survivors among the Western leftist "welfare state democracies".
Well those were always efforts to buy class peace anyways.

>>18813932
lamest, most unaesthetic country on the planet, why do you all simp for these guys again?

>>18813932
>that Bezos cosplayer

>>18814020
Because USA needs to be nuked

>>18814023
based Sonic Youth GIF.
They're the greatest American rock band ever.
>>18813894
>communist government
lol no.
they don't even believe in this marxist-leninist bs anymore.
it's "just" an authoritarian one-party-rule state that acts HEINOUSLY with the west. that's it.

>>18814039
LOL nice cope amerishit
all american music sucks btw

>>18814020
Dude, it rules. It's like a ultra-modern thing with rows of dudes in hardhats singing about the beauty of work. Only one thing is for certain though: we're all gonna have to do our part in the future once these welfare gibmedats run out and we're all using Digital Yuan instead of dollar. That's right. It's also trad and woke at the same time so everyone is represented, but no one gets everything they want. But that's the "Middle Path." You can pretty much do whatever you want though, as long as you don't get in the way.

https://youtu.be/7Q8z_y0Ye7U

>>18814051
Well, there's a difference between De Jure and De Facto.

>>18814053
yeah sure... but still, death to all Gooks

>>18812291
China is already national socialist retarded commie

>>18814059
yes, amerishit music is de facto shit

>>18814051
I'm officially declare that I'm an attack helicopter

>>18814070
americuck "nazi" cope

>>18814070
The youth are becoming national socialist Marxist commies!!!

>“Now we are going to have tens of thousands of young people who believe in and learn Marxism,” he said, adding that “they speak good English, have international perspective, and are good at thinking. They confirm the correctness of Marxism through their own observations, comparing China with the West.”

>>18814086
>Marxism
>current year
holy fucking shit, just start a new world war and murder the entire CCP gang already

>>18812291
I like to study this too. But I haven't come across like The book that really lays this out.

Xi Jinping's books make the claim that this will happen if you havent read those.

there are marxist-leninist-maoist currents that heavily critique china and think it will not reach communism.

>>18814090
>communism bad because I'm a homosexual americuck with a whore mother
hmm, okay

>>18812291
I also find it funny that now that China's success can't be denied it MUST be capitalist. Sure, Obama and Biden are commies for wanting to do universal healthcare and maybe beef up some enviornmental regs, but the superpower where the communist party has a controlling interest in many of the largest firms, where the communist party can remove and appoint members to any major company board, where the communist party closed stock markets by fiat during any disruption, not allowing you to pull money out, where there is one party rule by the communist party, which decided where people can live and how many children they can have, where the Chinese version of Jeff Bezos gets disappeared for most of a year for criticizing the CCP run banking sector, and where and entire religious community.is reeducated to stop terrorism, this is capitalist. It MUST be capitalist because it is successful.

>>18814096
fucking destroyed

>>18814090
cringe

>>18814086
>we are going to have tens of thousands of young people who believe in and learn Marxism
aren't there like fuckin billions of 'em, that's a pretty crummy number... still tho, i worry about the transphobic backlash this'll cause

>tfw Westernized chink studying in US
feels good man. whoever wins I can just join them

>>18814090
I think it's a hilarious turn of events, in any case. There's all this Trump and Bernie stuff and blah blah blah then all of a sudden Xi Jinping shows up in a Mao suit and starts pumping his fist and talking about Marxism being the truth and the reason for China's success and then people are like "uhh... no it isn't!" Like, you gotta admit it's really funny

>>18814105
Oh, I forgot the whole Marxist indoctrination thing, particularly in the military or that they fight under a sickle and hammer. Very capitalist.

The USSR saw living standards explode upward so I assume it was capitalist then too.

Sinosimps arguing that Chiner is Troo Communism only serves to make the ideology less appealing than it already is if it's apex is an hideous cultural wasteland populated by overworked automatons.

>>18814166
>not real communism!
you're a parody of yourself

Chinasimps fall for all this kitsch crap?

>>18814122
See if you can get free copies of the People's Daily or complimentary bags of tea sent to your dorm room then convert your college classmates to Xi Jinping Thought

>>18814180
Not enough trannies and gays in jockstraps for your liking?

supposedly according to leftypol china has a plan to go back to being communist around 2050

trust the plan -xi

The illusion of democracy as a virtue is a delusion that’s almost exclusively to European people.

>>18814304
Leftypol are retarded americucks who don't know shit

>>18814316
China is democratic, they hold elections

>>18814304
>back to being communist
Hahaha.
No. They’re under no illusions that they were ever communist. The Soviets either.
Again, what we’ve been saying all these years, it was in fact never real communism. Only parties intending to bring communism.
“Trust the plan” if you want, I don’t.

>>18814330
Another glaring example of voting=democracy
It sure doesn’t.

>>18812300
scientific socialism is state capitalism. Read Kropotkin

Mao revised Marxism, as Lenin did, like Gramsci says that the USSR was the Revolution against Kapital.

China has to deal with this now because they didnt want to follow Bernstein's ideas on bringing about Communism, and Marx himself did not properly understand the role of the State in maintaining capitalism (social democracy is the savior of Capitalism)

pragmatically China really can't do anything more now - perhaps start to reduce 995/996/ work culture, younger retirement, higher pensions etc - which is probably all that "communism" will ever be in society.

>>18814080
they're not wrong
>>18814086
uber cucks

>>18815066
>social democrats are true capitalists
the absolute level of commies delusions

>>18815066
Mao didn't revise Marxism but rejected it under the pretense of revising it
Lenin didn't revise Marxism but restored it against opportunist distortion
Gramsci was a dumb liberal faggot who aided the Stalinist counter-revolution
Marx understood the role of the state and he planned a volume of Capital on it, he just didn't get to write it. Engels touched upon the role of the capitalist state in Anti-Dühring

>>18815135
social democracy is a major means of defending capitalist society against its own contradictions. the workers seek to abolish capitalism because they can't fulfill their needs within it? keep granting them crumbs so they shut the fuck up and stop putting the rule of capital in danger! the workers create independent trade unions in order to oppose the capitalists and their state? bring the trade unions under control of the state and leftist bourgeois parties, and work hard to steer them away from any independent revolt, instead steering them in the direction of reconciliation with the bosses and the state!

>>18815214
>social democracy is a major means of defending capitalist society against its own contradictions
You guys are funny

>>18815066
Social democracy is the synthesis of liberal capitalism and socialism. If Marxists actually took the time to understand Hegel they'd realize that every ideology and system is just a product of its time and will be replaced.

The problems of today tend to be globalization based. Rich countries that adopted social democracy tend to provide pretty damn well for their people. The problem today is how to maintain support for socialism lite in the face of hordes of poor migrants from a different culture using benefits, or how to impose global systems to deal with carbon emissions and other externalities.

The new synthesis will need to overcome the Westphalian state system and must also be post-nationalist since nationalism is now dying due to Hegelian contradiction. Conservatives love property rights and free markets, but market forces will drive capitalists to seek out globalized supply chains and cheap migrant labor. Thus conservatism is doomed by contradiction. The very freedoms it wants to promote will inevitably destroy nationalism. The left has the same problem, where support for redistribution dies as citizens no longer see themselves as part of a common whole.

Marxists are two syntheses behind. Marxism already helped turn liberal states into welfare states, and a pillar of that synthesis was modern nationalism (a gift of Hegel like Marxism). The next turn will involve dealing with the fact that nationalism has been negated.

Communism won't be possible for a long time. It will probably require gene editing to dull the violent, irrational, and competitive aspects of human nature, along with a major decline in resource scarcity, likely due to major population decline (already on its way) combined with technological growth. Star Trek might be right to place liberal post-scarcity communism out into the 24th century.

>>18815013
>Read [menshevik]
nah

>>18815242
it's just plainly obvious. to function, capitalist society needs a working class that isn't completely destitute, uneducated and literally dying of poverty. it needs a working class that agrees to go to work instead of constantly revolting, that doesn't have its own independent organizations that can push their struggle as far as it needs to go but is rather made completely dependent on bourgeois parties, regime unions, bourgeois state welfare.
the political wing that ensures this is social democracy, and in special circumstances fascism. other parties of course adopt this program too nowadays, but to a lesser extent, so that an illusion of the radicalness of the left wing of capital is somewhat maintained, helping it capture even some of the more radical working class elements (for the same purpose some parts of social-democracy straight up use the words "socialist" and "communist" and throw socialist phraseology around despite remaining social-democratic in terms of the political program).

>>18815395
>Communism won't be possible for a long time. It will probably require gene editing to dull the violent, irrational, and competitive aspects of human nature, along with a major decline in resource scarcity, likely due to major population decline (already on its way) combined with technological growth. Star Trek might be right to place liberal post-scarcity communism out into the 24th century.
It will be possible in a mythical post-scarcity world (where abundance will make ALL economic theories redundant). Before that no living creature will voluntarily share its resources with strangers (or expand its energy working for others) because it's suicidal. The communist system rewards parasitism - it's survival of the lazy; which means that it's self-destructive.

>>18815449
>from each according to their ability
>parasitism
off to the gulag with you

>>18815413
>menshevik
You realize the “Bolsheviks” were actually the Mensheviks, don’t you?

>>18815449
>The communist system rewards parasitism - it's survival of the lazy;
Herr Marx in the meantime:
>In a rational state of society every child whatever, from the age of 9 years, ought to become a productive labourer in the same way that no able-bodied adult person ought to be exempted from the general law of nature, viz.: to work in order to be able to eat, and work not only with the brain but with the hands too.

>>18815481
you're one dumb fucking slut

>>18815491
Oh boy, I am not talking about their theories (lol), I am saying what is ACTUALLY being rewarded in a commie system.

>>18815508
In a commie system, parasites were sent to Siberian work camps

>>18815508
>>18815520
communist society hasn't begun yet

>>18815530
True

>>18812291
>>>/pol/
Why are mods just letting /pol/tards shit up our board and why are all the faggots ITT going along with it? Fuck all of you.

>>18815520
It can work for some time if you have a decent whip, but I've thought that it was supposed to be voluntary?

>>18815562
Was it?

>>18814039
>They're the greatest American rock band ever.
you know how wrong you are??
galaxie 500 much better idiot and so are so many more bands. Galaxie 500 is not even american but you are still stupid.
LOW is better

>>18815481
>>18815493
kek

>>18814066
That is a slur for Koreans

>>18814002
China is the reality of communism, you will never not have a state.

>>18815562
sure, people will generally will to do something productive for themselves and for the community instead of wasting away doing nothing of significance. this is just human nature. after a brief period parasites will be an exceedingly rare exception, to the point that it won't even be worth a bother exerting violence upon them. the violence will be reserved mostly for the revolutionary transitional period, when there will still be many people coming straight from bourgeois and upper petty-bourgeois households, i.e. literally raised to be parasites.

>>18814086
Nah, the youth are laying down.

>>18814342
It was real communism, more real than pathetic liberal anarchists.

>>18815619
>no living creature will voluntarily share its resources with strangers (or expand its energy working for others) because it's suicidal

>>18815530
Yes it has.

>>18815650
>I don’t want to learn! No! Stop!

>>18812291
Have you ever considered the possibility that what you call socialism is an impossibility?

>>18815617
China is capitalist through and through. the last substantial glimmer of communism in China were the 1927 Shanghai uprisings. there were also several not-so-small movements later, such as the 1957 strike wave in the same city. and the situation remains not entirely static even today: https://maps.clb.org.hk.. in fact, it will aggravate with the boost due to the influx of foreign capital running out, combined with the rapid ageing of the population.

>>18815654
working for others and working for oneself will be the same thing. when there's no private property, i.e. when no means of production belong to individuals, it's impossible to work for oneself in any sense distinct from working for the society that one forms an organic part of. besides, we're way past private peasant or artisan labour. the production that matters is already socialized rather than individual, and the scale of this socialization will keep growing, creating ever more favourable conditions for the coming of communism.

>>18815717
>the production that matters is already socialized rather than individual, and the scale of this socialization will keep growing, creating ever more favourable conditions for the coming of communism.
You've got the West well covered, but it's opposite of what happens in China.

>>18815798
cont. looks like the West starts lagging again - imagine introducing communism AFTER the Chinese have already abandoned it lol.

>>18815798
it's not the opposite. it's the general tendency of capitalism, including China, to turn the precapitalist, self-sustaining strata into people who cooperatively make products for others.

>>18815865
You mean competitively.
Cooperatively they had suffered.

>>18812291
They are not on the communist road, that's for sure.

>>18814051
>>18812300
You are literally obsessed

>>18813999
Geopolitics just like vibeogam

>>18815885
no, I mean cooperatively. the children of people who worked in self-sufficient agricultural households go to the city to work in enormous factories. they remain in competition too, because the society is still capitalist and founded on private property, but this at the same time becomes undermined by the growth of cooperation in production. the communist movement will so to speak complete this process by abolishing private property and competition, letting the existing trend of growth in cooperation assert itself with full force.

>market socialist
market "socialism" is unstable and will just revert to regular capitalism

>full blown communist society
communism can't arise until the capitalist mode of production is done away with everywhere. the CCP cucking the US gets us closer probably, even if I abhor their revisionism

>>18814304
leftypol is more than one person anon. there's plenty of posters who don't buy the the deng beetles' shit

>>18812291
Genuinely curious to see what happens after the Xi years. It could go really south if some madman gets in. But really don't see that happening.