/lit/ - Literature

>>18806874
* simplicity

This is just clownworld all over again.

>>18806874
i just ordered two books on art theory

>>18806881
???
>>18806883
Which ones?

What books do you lads even like, name which classics and which post modern works. And if you have painters or movies or the like name them.

>>18806874
>conciliate DIY post-modernism storytelling with classical aesthetics, alongside a heavy focus on zen, simplicty and child-like wonder.
sounds dumb and gay desu
the most that will come out of this is a bunch of gay memes
art movements are started by artists working IRL, not from a bunch of bored autistic incels on an inner mongolian sheep milking forum

besides, memes are basically art anyway

>>18806874
>conciliate DIY post-modernism storytelling with classical aesthetics
So.... Radical Traditionalism with Modernist characteristics? The synthesis between Evola and Bataille? I'm in.

>>18806896
There's a lad on the last thread that linked "Agharta" by Miles Davis.
I quote his own words :
>It's abstract, edgy, bizarre, schizo and unexpected at times, but on the other hand its core basis remains simple, straight-forward, honest and is an emotional outlet like no other.

Books that I've been enjoying these last days:
>Glamorama by BEE
>Bleeding Edge by Pynchon
>Homo Zapiens by Pelevin
>Karen Blixen's letters

Filmmakers:
>Jonathan Glazer
>Chris Cunningham
>Andrei Tarkovsky
>György Pálfi
>Jan Svankmajer
>Stanley Kwan
>Jia Zhangke

>>18806916
>art movements are started by artists working IRL, not from a bunch of bored autistic incels on an inner mongolian sheep milking forum
exactly. that's why we're about to change that.

>>18806962
>>It's abstract, edgy, bizarre, schizo and unexpected at times, but on the other hand its core basis remains simple, straight-forward, honest and is an emotional outlet like no other.
you must be a high school sophomore, or on that tier of development, to think this sounds cool or appealing in any way

>>18806896
National classic authors:
Oehlenschläger, St. St. Blicher, Nordic sagas, Saxo, Holberg, Kierkegaard, Carit Etlar, B. S. Ingemann, Nexø, Pontoppidan

Classical:
Plato, Aristotle, Homer, Virgil, Aeschylus, Sophocles, Ovid, etc. you know the rest

International:
The classic English authors like Shakespeare and Milton, Blake, Goethe, Hugo, Dumas, Laclos, Celine, Camus, Baidelaire, Balzac, etc.

Post-modern
Knausgård, Umberto Eco, maybe(?) Carver. I'm not actually big on postmodernism, but if you've got any recommendations, then shoot.

>>18806968
post your art then niggers

i bet no one in here has anything more than rudimentary talent. where are you going to show your work btw? /ic/? kek

Considering the movement is about zen, simplicity and child like wonder I think we should turn our attention to the cartoons Calvin and Hobbes, Peanuts and the manga Yotsuba. That seems like the perfect medium for this type of artistic expression.

im the anon who suggested that name.
in my view the essence of naivette is "omnisthetic", admitting both beauty and corruption in all things and types of people. it dwells on the paradox, comparison and universality at the same time. to accentuate the impact of the Internet (which is at the base of naivete despite rarely appearing itself in the works) on our worldview, the perspective in naivette is both full-scope and inflamedly fixated, an absurd mix of the micro and macrocosms.
> and it must include horses

>>18806972
I know the phrasing is nerdy af, but the dude (dudette???) is spot on.

>>18806896
>Contemporary Fiction
The Rings of Satrun by WG Sebald

>Classic Poetry:
Kalidasa
Basho
Trakl
Pessoa

>Music:
Prabha Atre
Eastern Orthodox chants(Bulgarian and Romanian mainly)

>Photography:
Robert Adams

>Film:
Pather Panchali
Nostalghia

I am going to combine all of these to make a really comfy photobook.

>>18806995
cringe

>>18806962
add Tge Third Policeman by O'brien. heard his other books are equally bizzare

OK so you guys want to be Animal Collective circa 2006. Got it

>>18807009
Feels was a great album

>>18806896
I like "Fear and Loathing in Las Vegas", as well as this painting. It's all about manchildren and their ability or not to control themselves because they are desperate beyond the funny point.

>>18806962
also i havent read that one by pelevin, but his absolute masterpieces are imo Generation P and Chapayev&Void, and among shorter works Omon Ra, The Yelloe Arrow and Hermit & Sixfinger
in general, avoid P's later works because they are repetitive trash

>>18806998
>sebald
>orthodox chants
HELL YEAH, partner. that's what im talking about. add also arabic chants/nasheeds

Guys I made it I Found the NERVE
>It's all about manchildren and their ability or not to control themselves because they are desperate beyond the funny point.
pls respond

>>18807035
thats a really stark quote, meboy
most modern movements empathise excess and absurd overblowing precisely because the modern man lacks ORGANIC MODERATION
if he controls, he becomes tyrannical, if lets go - unkemptly degenerate; cringe culture closed in on itself, assigning cringeness to mere simulacra, missing the whole point of anything being fine in appropriate setting and way.

a tangible part of naive narrative should be a commentary on modern mass neuroticism and lack of harmonic approach.

>>18806916
>art movements are started by artists working IRL
Everything was started IRL before the internet. Who are we kidding, for autist-schizophrenics that NEET or are fed up with academia, this is IRL, and has been for quite some time. Or for those many millions of people that showed up to work via telecommunication last year and well into this one, are they not in the office all the same?

>besides, memes are basically art anyway
That doesn't scream opportunity to you?

>>18807088
>That doesn't scream opportunity to you?
that screamed opportunity to countless PR and Ad mamagers, and in turn revealed something unique: memes can't be faked. any zoomer senses insincerity within a meme like a shark. you cannot be memetic on purpose without causing an unironical ridicule.

>>18807031
>add also arabic chants/nasheeds
Ayyyy anon, recommend me some good stuff

>>18807122
since i cant understand them anyway, i just have a telegram channel with daily cool nasheeds, or i look up "arabic orthodox/muslim chants" whenever i want

>>18806962
This doesn’t sound good to me
>>18806975
Do you plan to actually synthesize all of them or are you just saying vaguely you like these dudes? Which do you plan on actually making a dedicated study and synthesis of ? Also most post modern stuff is (to me) garbage.
>>18806995
Terrible post
>>18806998
Goodluck
>>18807020
Write a paragraph attempting to capture the aesthetical qualities of both, I will post an excerpt which captures a painting to show you that it can be done. To quote this author’s work seeks to capture the styles of “Rembrandt and Callot, studies from Van-Eyck, Lucas de Leyde, Albert Dürer, Peeter Neef, Breughel de Velours, Breughel d’Enfer, Van-Ostade, Gérard Dow, Salvator-Rosa, Murillo, Fusely and several other masters of different schools.”

The Mason

“The head mason: “Look at these bastions, these buttresses; one would think them built for eternity.”
- Schiller, William Tell.


The mason Abraham Knupfer sings, the trowel in his hand, inside the scaffolding up there with the winds, so far up that, reading the Gothic verses chiseled on the great bell in the steeple, he stands with his feet level with the highest point both of the church with its thirty flying buttresses, and of the town itself with its thirty churches.

He beholds the Tarasques of stone spewing the water from off the slates of the main roof down into the kaleidescopic abyss formed by the galleries, the windows, the pendentives, the bell-turrets, the roofs and the timber frameworks, that abyss against which the grey dot of the tercel hawk makes a spot as it glides on its notched and immobile wings.

He beholds the fortifications that stand out extended in a gigantic star-shape, the citadel that carries its head high like a hen in a mass of vegetation, the courtyards in the palaces where the sunlight parches the fountains, and the cloisters in the monasteries where the shadows revolve around the columns.

The imperial troops have been lodged in the city’s outskirts. Behold the horseman down there who is beating a drum. Abraham Knupfer discerns his hat with three corners, his ornamental shoulder-knots of red linen, his cockade adorned with gold braid, and his ponytail tied with a ribbon.

What he further beholds are the mercenaries who, within the park plumed with gigantic green boughs, upon large emerald lawns riddle with shots from their arquebuses a bird made of wood fastened to the head of a maypole.

And in the evening when the well-proportioned nave in the cathedral falls asleep, lying with its great arms crossed, he perceives on the horizon, as he descends the ladder, a village set on fire by the men of war, a village that flared up like a comet against the dark blue of the heavens.”

My next post will be of a shorter example from the same author.

>>18807144

“XI. The Gibbet


What do I see stirring around this gibbet?
- Faust.

Ah! What I hear, would it be the north wind that whimpers at night, or the hanged man who breathes a sigh, fixed on the forked gibbet?

Would it be some cricket that sings furtively in the moss and the fruitless ivy for him to whom, out of pity, the gibbet’s wood is wedded?

Would it be some fly on the hunt sounding its tiny trumpet around those ears now deaf to the fanfares of hunting horns?

Would it be some dung beetle that gathers during its clumsy flight one blood-stained hair fallen from his now hairless cranium?

Or indeed would it be some spider that weaves a half-ell of muslin as a cravat for that strangled neck?

It is the bell that sounds at the walls of some town, beyond the horizon, and it is the carcass of a hanged man that reddens the setting sun.”

>>18807144
Which book you're enjoying these days? And what is your opinion on Frank Stanford?

I don't read a lot of non fiction so none of these examples really mean anything to me and I'm still kind of confused about what Naiveté is, what are some painters, filmmakers or musicians that could be considered naive?

>>18807214
I haven’t read him, my cut off point is around the 1950s, as soon as it’s written after 1950 I’m largely ignorant of it partially because I’ve disliked what I’ve been exposed to and partially because I simply do not know. It’s rooted in my dislike of modernism, but do you like him, is he worth reading? I’m always down to try new authors.

As for what I’ve been reading lately, I’ve recently finished the complete poems of Richard Middleton, a fine poet but he forced his rhymes, I’ve also read carducci, I’ve also began reading Saint-John Perse, I also read all of pu-songling in two translations, but the dude whose really been interesting me lately is a somewhat now obscure author, M.P. Shiel, he was insane, being arrested for raping a child and so forth, but this insanity comes through into his jittery kinetic baroque prose style. I will post some samples so you can understand the oddity of him. These are average examples not odd ones.

From a non fiction essay on reading.
> “For, really, this reading-mania of the nations has an origin deeper in nature than any desire to “while away the time”, has an origin in the fact that progress is the law of Life, in the fact that the longer progress has gone on the greater has grown its rate, so that by the time it got to man its rate began to be great, and at modern man its rate is even eager. Nor is progress any more the law of Life in the gross than of the separate life, man or nag, though, because of its increasing speed, a modern man will do anything, will be gnawing an end of straw, will be perusing football gossip, sooner than sprawl all torpid, while a horse, its girth once gorged with herbage, will long bulge dead-still with a lubberlip in his meadow-plot, bitterly meditating upon nothing.”

Some from his fiction.

Cont

>>18807277


>his camp, Macray, Panda (the Zulu with him), Cobby asked himself many times a day — though between day and midnight was not the least difference in that place, where the eyes strained in vain to descry the hand, however crazily nigh they stared; so that, just to see light, Cobby would switch on his torchlight anon, always with a miserly economy, like one who sips liqueur, lest the little dry-cell, running down, should leave his eyeballs quite bereaved of light.

>Albrecht Dürer — artium lumen, sol artificum-pictor-calcographus-sculptor-sine exemplo — one day sent, as we know, a black-and-white wash of his face, untouched by pencil, to his friend, a certain Raphaelo Santi at Rome: a piece of work said to have been much admired of the Master. Two years later, Dürer despatched just such another to the morganatic Gräfin von Hohenschwangau — a great lover of Art, herself an artist — and it was the burning of this portrait that was the undoing of the Lord of Schwangau himself and so of all that branch of the race of the Herzogs of Swabia, till now.

>THREE DAYS AGO! by heaven, it seems an age. But I am shaken — my reason is debauched. A while since, I fell into a momentary coma precisely resembling an attack of petit mal. “Tombs, and worms, and epitaphs” — that is my dream. At my age, with my physique, to walk staggery, like a man stricken! But all that will pass: I must collect myself — my reason is debauched.

>>18807110
Fair enough, but I'm assuming you said it yourself; they can be the seed of an art form all the same. All that really needs be done is to build off from there; like our axioms of mathematics, these compressed ideas can possess the robust quality of laying a stable foundation to be built upon such that we might make something greater. And I'm certain it doesn't have to be reaffirmed that the kind of opportunity sought after here would be in stark contrast to that of a corporate propaganda campaign.

>>18807260
They’re basically not sure yet themselves. So far they have the vague idea of neo-sincerity, they want to ape classics they claim and also to ape the common post modern stuff. But again I ask, any who wants to make this new style, write a paragraph or two and show us what it will look like.

>>18807309
yeah man, i just pointed out the character of this "memetic" quality - it cant be faked, fitting perfectly into the naivete structure
the whole movement must be uncommodifiable from the start

I know Naiveté has caught on, but I liked this “Greentext Manifesto” from the last thread.

THE GREENTEXT MANIFESTO
> no person narrative
> be invasive to the point of turning the reality inside out and placing the reader in your spot
> hypertextuality.htlm
> used to regard text as mere transliteration of the spoken, now a medium of its own
> a stroke in the void
> write without considering or expecting any audience at all while implying interactivity with the repliers

I hereby claim "adaptation" by Kaufman as a work of naiveté

>>18807311
>>18803523

embrace the joy of life untainted by hardship wrought upon us by the modern age, bros. Embrace Naiveté.

Why don't we ape silver age superhero comics? They're childlike, uncompromisingly optimistic and filled with the kind of ideals lost in the ironic postmodern cynicism of today.

>>18807352
I also claim the works of the American outisder musicians/painters and "Gesang Der Jünglinge" by Stockhausen as brilliant examples of naiveté.

>>18807364
>implying idealism

>>18807353
Anon that’s just fantasy and magical realism. And I do not mean to discourage you from writing with samadhi, but I and many others also induce samadhi in our writings, example, something I have written.

a Golden light sublime and substantial gradually fades from my view, then all becomes delicate blues and white-stained gold, an enamel heaven of tinged glory and of gushing Geysers of the deep, which, though unseen, rise up as a spume of silver, as pale hands the virgin Foam claps to the sky.

painted Dawn is dim on the dark water, painted yet pale, dark yet shining. she was born, she the deep sea's daughter whose face to feet were fair and flawless, filled as with a light golden and with eyes that burned with the flame seen from far away shores, just as had been seen in the olden days when the sea was young.

gloomy onyx arose the hills and the cliffs and upon them soft as vellum grew the flowers tinged with the delicate white-gold of heaven among a grass just as gold as the sun that shined restfully upon the waters where fed upon foam were the red flowers of Proserpine beneath the cliffs.

she walks upon the cliffs, a young woman whose dress is pale, (yet paler still is her sickly skin) leaps from cliff to cliff, she does not fear the waters of the deep for with each leap she looks upon the abyss and yet its darkness does not stain her pallid skin agleam as with tears made of mother of pearl.

he marches from the dale to the hill and marches back again, his face was wizen, his voices were daven, his garb black and in his left hand he held a Red Cross and a pale lily in his right. every sixth step he would cry out “oh lord, my lord, Oh God, my God” he sought but knew not what he sought.

I held in my hand a little book, leather bound and illuminated, and though the letters were in some unknown script i was able to recite them “I speak to you who wears a sable garb, I cry to you who searches for naught, hear the bellows of my throat and behold I know what must be sought.”

the elder heard my voice, but believed it not, his neck grew long and quinsied, his arms sagged sallow and shriveled, the white lily fell from his grip and floated on the waters below the cliff, his bone sharp as saber could be seen through his skin, his eyes grew sunken, his breath blew ash-cloud and his face grew gaunt.

Cont

>>18807340
thanks...
and now let me elaborate on the symbolism of horses i also suggest
historically they were subject to the same burden as common men, and with the industrial revolution underwent similar travesties of value, purpose and freedom. a horse represents everything that's wrong with our society.

>>18807386

he marched from the dale to the hill and then returned back again. softly a song sang she who walks upon the cliffs, the white of the lily dapples the red poppy, his eyes cruel and abyssal looked upon her stainless eyes agleam as if made of mother of pearl, his eyes become tinged with golden light.

he marched over dale and hill and she leaps from the rocks and in the center met they where the waters meet the rocks. she grew ripe, her skin becomes stained with the red flush of life, his wizen form wastes away, revealing the face and form of a younger man who bears in his hand a spume-white sword of silver.

he embraces her and for a moment, a golden light, sublime and substantial causes all to fade from my view and I drop my book of strange characters into the ancient sea where reflects the light of the enamel Sun and then they two with one voice speak to me “awaken thou, from thine dream.”

>>18807324
Certainly. The meme magic of which is spoken around these parts would be that quality which is brought out from the aether of perfection; anything less, and it's material; further, and it's corporate and forced. Perhaps what's taken from there to here, or rather here to there would eventually be commodified, perhaps all of it were it possible, but I don't think that should be a hindrance; in fact that's something that could shape what the movement would become as you've mentioned. I do believe that it was said last thread, something about aestheticism being the way forward. That, I agree, would be the right track.

>>18807277
>is he worth reading?
You tell me

https://youtu.be/ARQxtl2MmdQ

The most of patrician stuff that you read, filters me. But Li He is very fucking kino. So thanks for that.

>>18807379
I feel like claiming anything from the past entirely misses the point.
A child ventures on flights of imagination intuitively.

A foundational artwork of NaivetéxGreentext

That doesn't sounds very shitpost/greentext. I'm out, you guys are taking this too seriously. But I look forward to your autism do something funny

>>18807403
>>18807352

If you guys want childlike imagination, romanticism, appeals to classic aesthetics, innocence and technical skill, the dude you guys should be making your prototype is William Blake.

The garden of Love

I went to the Garden of Love,
And saw what I never had seen:
A Chapel was built in the midst,
Where I used to play on the green.

And the gates of this Chapel were shut,
And 'Thou shalt not' writ over the door;
So I turn'd to the Garden of Love,
That so many sweet flowers bore.

And I saw it was filled with graves,
And tomb-stones where flowers should be:
And Priests in black gowns, were walking their rounds,
And binding with briars, my joys & desires.

The lamb

Little Lamb who made thee
Dost thou know who made thee
Gave thee life & bid thee feed.
By the stream & o'er the mead;
Gave thee clothing of delight,
Softest clothing wooly bright;
Gave thee such a tender voice,
Making all the vales rejoice!
Little Lamb who made thee
Dost thou know who made thee

Little Lamb I'll tell thee,
Little Lamb I'll tell thee!
He is called by thy name,
For he calls himself a Lamb:
He is meek & he is mild,
He became a little child:
I a child & thou a lamb,
We are called by his name.
Little Lamb God bless thee.
Little Lamb God bless thee.


The chimney sweeper
When my mother died I was very young,
And my father sold me while yet my tongue
Could scarcely cry " 'weep! 'weep! 'weep! 'weep!"
So your chimneys I sweep & in soot I sleep.

There's little Tom Dacre, who cried when his head
That curled like a lamb's back, was shaved, so I said,
"Hush, Tom! never mind it, for when your head's bare,
You know that the soot cannot spoil your white hair."

And so he was quiet, & that very night,
As Tom was a-sleeping he had such a sight!
That thousands of sweepers, Dick, Joe, Ned, & Jack,
Were all of them locked up in coffins of black;

And by came an Angel who had a bright key,
And he opened the coffins & set them all free;
Then down a green plain, leaping, laughing they run,
And wash in a river and shine in the Sun.

Then naked & white, all their bags left behind,
They rise upon clouds, and sport in the wind.
And the Angel told Tom, if he'd be a good boy,
He'd have God for his father & never want joy.

And so Tom awoke; and we rose in the dark
And got with our bags & our brushes to work.
Though the morning was cold, Tom was happy & warm;
So if all do their duty, they need not fear harm.

>>18807400
Glad you liked him! I’ll give this a listen in a bit.

>>18807088
Offline memes lose their power.

>>18806874
>DIY post-modernism storytelling with classical aesthetics, alongside a heavy focus on zen, simplicty and child-like wonder.
I was hoping for something more like: Anons autistic everyday life caught in simple, Chanlanguage
Still waiting for The Greentext Manifesto tho'

guys what do you think of my interpretation/meditation

throughout centuries, men had been enslaved by it in various forms. sone crude, some intricate and thus even more absurd, some silly, others outright torturous, but invariably crippling, senseless, and mob-rule. IT is FORMALITY.
undoubtedly - most rules, open and untold, were founded in goodwill and kind spirits. but the causes for those outcomes had long withered, the etiquette degenerated, calcifying here a coincidental turn, there an atavism, a horrible opressive corral that doesn't serve us good.
i naively pledge to unlearn my prejudices and judge primordially. i naively aspire to let go of ridig hollows someone carved in our collective mind. i naively pledge to view tge world unperturbed, full, and firsthand.
i pledge to restore the social settings. i pledge not to cite, reference or allude in place of original musings.
i pledge to be naive.

>>18807386
>Anon that’s just fantasy and magical realism.
Before we talk any further I want to let you know that I dislike you reflexively because you’re a tripfag.

With that out of the way, no, the story is about coming to terms with the pleasure of prostate orgasms.
I’m honestly not very litty, so I wouldn’t know what the term for this is, but there’s a sort of quantum superposition in the story: whether the dragon is real and the alchemist was sincerely trying to help, or whether the young man was simply drugged and raped by the alchemist and the ending sequence is rape induced dissociative hallucination. The entire joke is constructed around that quantum superposition.
On the level of social commentary it challenges societal pathologization of homosexuality: with the conceit of the young man’s anima confessing that the dragon was ... really good.

There’s a lot going on in my joke.

This is fucking cringe, bros. Just fucking read and write.

>>18806874
lmao

>>18807507
I get that anon but that’s precisely the stuff you see in magical realism where they blur the lines of fantastical and the real and it’s also pretty common in the sexual/psychological aspect. You see stuff like this in Gabriel García Márquez and Borges all the time.

I understand the tripfag hate and support it, but the fact you admit you haven’t read much is why this seems novel. If you want an older example, check out The Book of Monelle by schwob.

>>18807552
>If you want an older example
I don't. FUCK reading LMAO

>>18806874
you niggers are no worse than waldun and his shameless artists lifestyle grift.

>>18807564
>>18807585
based, rest of you guys are gay af

>>18806874
>alongside a heavy focus on zen
What's the deal with Zen?

>dude let's construct the style and aesthetic before we actually have anything to say lmao
embarrassing

>>18807614
They don’t mean actual zen lit, they mean just simplistic slow atmospheric stuff like kawabata and the general haiku-like aesthetic.

>>18807439
"That doesn't sound very shitpost slash greentext", he said. My eyes venture down to gage the poster count. It sprang up to 17. A sly smile curled the end of my lips, steeped in almost wicked judgement of this poster's folly. "I'm out-", he continued, but I needn't read any further. As my thumbs clumsily navigate the narrow keys of my phone, the continuüm stretches itself and we merge into a metaphysical manifestation of a same entity. You consider scrolling away, perhaps even hiding the post, but somehow you are captivated by the symbols protruding your screen and the barrier between us. When we woke up this morning we did not intend on sharing this experience, yet here we are- nearly trembling at the sudden thrill our unification has brought us. We never considered a collective mind to be real, yet here is PALPABLE for anyone who happened to attend. We are now joined in a way more intimate than the flesh can offer us, in a way more profound than the holy word can teach us. Uncomfortable, I admit, at first. Our eyes dart to the bottom of the post. Just for a second! But, long enough to betray the desire to sustain this mutual fever that entered our psyche for as long as possible. A connection like this seemed repugnant at first, but it will prove to leave an insationable thirst to venture into collective thought again. As such, it leaves behind a gnawing discourse that will present itself whenever it presents itself. Fear not, for journey ends not here.

>>18807552
>that’s precisely the stuff you see in magical realism where they blur the lines of fantastical and the real and it’s also pretty common in the sexual/psychological aspect
One of the functions of my joke is that there are at least two readily apparent possibilities as to what is the "reality" of the story. This function could be applied to almost anything. Anon wanted to see the same story interpreted as a schizo being raped by a meth lab owner, and this "quantum superposition" function could work there.
American Psycho works the same way: whether or not Bateman really did kill so many people or whether he had a vivid imagination.
The insight I'm trying to communicate is that acceptance of these dual realities as an orgasmic whole could be a feature of naivete.

That on the one hand reality is a horrifying story about being raped by a dragon and losing your mind, and on the other hand reality is a horrifying story about being raped by a dragon and losing your mind.

>>18807631
Ah, okay.

>>18807633
I like it. Keep 'em coming.

>>18807633
very cool post, Anon. keep it coming.

has to have the element of sci-fi not being fiction but not in a bazingamarsyoutubealgodronefilm.
kaufman is right
lynch is right
dick as already pioneered bandanaman
cyber rpg, kafka as npc but everyone mentioned in the book are also npcs
neon noir as proenneke
post-trump metadata, monet but american and/or anglo

>>18807794
i'll call 911 for your stroke

>>18807439
>be me
>browsing /lit/
>see naivete thread
>decide to throw fit
>write greentext poem to protest
>that movement was better than this shit
>faggy critics who can't make art
>I implore you all to submit
>your greentext poems even if bad
>they'll be better than this naivete outfit

>>18807633
Did we just have intercourse?

>>18806874
What a retarded name, it represents well how retarded the idea is.

>>18806874
>conciliate DIY post-modernism storytelling with classical aesthetics, alongside a heavy focus on zen, simplicty and child-like wonder.
Tell me more about this or send me links to posts explaining, please
Trad pub writer here, I can write some short stories like this.

I preferred the greentext movement, trying to create your own art movement as anything other than some kind of meme is completely retarded.

>>18807882
it is a meme. maybe make NAIVETTE the new fingerbox or George Berrycone.

>>18807882
I'm leaning towards Greentext Naivete myself

Write your greentext naivete poems.
>be me
>walking up some street
>see homeless dude
>poor homeless dude
>give homeless dude change
>wave goodbye to homeless dude
>help homeless dudes cos they're nice and need money

> walk into the corner store
> nigger asks for change
> But I tell you, do not resist an evil person. If anyone slaps you on the right cheek, turn to them the other cheek also. And if anyone wants to sue you and take your shirt, hand over your coat as well. If anyone forces you to go one mile, go with them two miles. Give to the one who asks you, and do not turn away from the one who wants to borrow from you.

>>18807354
This picture is the movement.

>>18806874
>conciliate DIY post-modernism storytelling with classical aesthetics, alongside a heavy focus on zen,
I don't get it

>>18806874
Based idea for an autism-wrangling general. Have a bump, OP

>did we just have intercourse

>>18807868
See:
>>18807633
>>18807642
>>18807631
>>18807386
>>18807354
https://archived.moe/lit/thread/18583120/

bump

>>18808045
>Maybe... flitted through the mind of anon, searching desperately for answers, as it seemed peculiar, this word intercourse... the gravity of it seeming somehow fitting for what it described, yet elusive was its meaning and whimsical was its movement...

>how then, did id have indergourse with idself
>pondered the unponderable

>>18807400
Interesting though not my taste, reads and sounds much more like prose honestly.

what we have so far
> naivette is a fingerbox of art movements, a label to randomly throw around with a knowing air
> it explicitly rejects glamour and commodification while being a mass romantization of everything

Air Naivette: it is explicitly a rejection of the fingerbox glamour of art commodification movements, while being a label to mass randomly romanticize everything knowing

Inspiration seems to have exhausted itself for now, but not to worry; it'll be back.

bump for inspiration

I’m attracted to this because it’s an automatic reflexive mode of being for me already. I have been waiting for a long time for people to catch up.

I am catching up in the last thread, I'm just bothered about our definition of Naiveté. It sounds a bit self-deprecating, no?
Or is it more of a joke aimed at our detractors for our shamelessness?

Are Daniel Johnston songs naivetè? Is it just outsider art but with classical aesthetics?

>>18809220
Naivete doesn’t excist yet. We can’t just go around claiming things as “naivete”, that’s not an art movement, that’s just recontextualizing things that already exist. Use his music to inspire your own original work and then we can debate whether your new piece is 4chan Naivete

>>18809169
I've been meditating on these topics for quite some time myself. Some of the things that have been written in these threads have come to my understanding a little while ago; I assume we're not the only two.

>>18809211
I believe it's meant to be taken somewhat literally, along the lines of the zen practice of beginner's mind.

>>18809211
Could you define our Naiveté and what you see as self depreciating about it?

>>18806874
>Naiveté, whose main goal is to conciliate DIY post-modernism storytelling with classical aesthetics, alongside a heavy focus on zen, simplicty and child-like wonder.
So that's what you bros decided on yesterday, huh? Seems a little crammed, tbqh

>>18809327
>that’s just recontextualizing things that already exist.
That's very postmodern though

It was naive of me to assume a verbally oriented board could apprehend this.
Break your minds, then we can talk.

>>18809354
>>18809358
Perhaps the use of the word is more "self-aware" than "self-deprecating" then? It has a childlike innocence to it, in the same way the word "essay" derives from the Latin word for "attempt" or "trial"?
Please correct me if you think I'm barking up the wrong tree, I am just want to get to the bottom of this. I'm really intrigued.

>>18809385
It’s strange, yea. There is a joke inherent to the choice of the word: once one’s innocence is lost, one can’t choose to be innocent again, and yet we are.

>>18809384
How can I do that?

>>18809385
I suppose the best way I could describe my own experience with it would be best understood via the practice of meditation. Once done enough, it can be easy to simply forget. As in if I may, there aren't any trees to bark up. You are simply at peace with the tree. You can climb it if you like, but eventually, you realize the ground is as any a good place to be, and then you can find another one to climb.

The word choice of Naiveté, to me, meaning simply that one has forgotten what something means. Like so: >>18807354.

>>18809429
I’ll tell you when the time is right, for now I’ve got to pack.
>>18809474
Is correct, and there are specific kinds of meditation to induce specific kinds of m

I think the idea of forcing a 'movement' is really cringe and naive. This isn't how movements work. You don't just post on a forum and hope to come up with rules for people to abide. It's supposed to be a natural thing, often with real life relationships and friendship groups involved. None of us know each other and not many would wish to.

The only thing this website shares is the few common threads that connect us: a disconnect from contemporary culture and politics, a fondness for traditionalism, a wish to be religious whilst also being unable to be religious, being stuck inside all of our lives with no friends or girlfriends, unhappy and single, sickened by consumerism . . . if you were to even talk about a movement then you would need to honestly dissect what it is we all share here. And then realise that we would be lucky if even one us has the talent to write anything that can join these features into a work of fiction.

What's the point in coming up with a rigid definition of what art from a specific movement will have to be like when abiding by these rigid parameters will only stunt your artistic expression? It would be much more effective to pick a simplistic prompt, like ''optimistic and childlike'' and then make art from that and see what happens and how you might take influence form each other. Trying to make it up first is fucking dumb.

>>18809588
>I think the idea of forcing a 'movement' is really cringe and naive.
So, the thread about the movement is the art within the movement?

>>18809588
>>18803523
This is the first naive work.

>>18809604
THAT'S SO META-NARRATEEVE AND POSS-MODARN DUDE

>>18809599
I would take part in a thread that had a good prompt to have fun in and write stuff. Might be nice to have that as a common place thread here in addition to the poetry threads and write what's on your mind threads.

>>18809613
That example shows nothing new. It's not well written, but besides that, it already clearly fits into a number of pre-established genres. Which is fine, of course (as long as it is well written, which that is not), but let's not pretend that it is anything new.

The only 'new' thing for us is to describe the current situation that binds us together.

>>18809641
That's what makes it an ideal work of naivete.
It's badly written, presented as if it's something new, when it's an age old tale of being mindbroken by big cocks.

>>18809663
You're an idiot.

>>18809424
Innocence is an inherent, natural aspect that is lost through experience. It's generally accepted to be irretrievable in the original form, but what I see this as is a deliberate and self-aware reclaiming of that innocent, maybe under new terms but still with the intent of achieving something of that original state.

>>18809663
And addendum to that: a Japanese philosopher once said
>through dick, unity
And that’s the kind of spirit that characterizes the movement

>>18809672
No: intentionally naive.

>>18809599
Personally I've been waiting to find others that have been meditating on the same topics as I have for quite a while now. Perhaps one could think of this as the realization that many of us were on the same page without exactly knowing it, rather than coming up with a strict set of rules.

>>18809672
Yes. That's the point.

So what’s the desired effect like what is the purpose of the art, what is it coming from? You don’t just create an art movement it’s a natural development from preexisting forms.

I posted this in the last thread, but I will reiterate: if any 'movement' starts up from a poster here then it will be a simple expression of anon. We all know in some way what binds us; look at the memes, the common threads. These things will present themselves in a novel at some point. Whether or not it is any good or if it inspires others, I do not know (I doubt it, as our plight is unattractive and our malaise is more likely to have us on the news for school shooters or people arrested for being racist on twitter).

>>18809672
>>18807354

>>18809686
I think this is more or less it. I've been coming here on and off since about 2006 or 2007 with many years in-between visits. I think a lot of people here have a similar background, and so they share in a shared consciousness on this site (kind of why they will inevitably gravitate back here, than to, say, facebook or reddit or whatever). But that's only discussing the overt or implied aspects of what this 'community' offers. There is, I am sure of it, plenty left unsaid out of fear or lack of confidence in it being a shared experience, or whatever else. The rampant, self-deprecating irony of this site is instilled in anyone who is here long enough, but there has never been a true critique of it and an attempt to synthesize with the antithesis, which itself has become an increasingly seductive option I feel, in many peoples' minds.

Might be a good time to ask if we have a set of bakers.

>>18809752
>set of bakers
huh?

>>18809763
I think he means people who will be on hand to post a new general when the current hits bump limit

>>18809763
To bake the bread. No? Well I guess that's fine too.

>>18809752
only good post itt

I think some people here are getting the wrong idea. This isn't about "forcing" a movement, like some anon said, it's hopefully about discussing some ideas, concepts, inspirations, feelings etc. that *could* be the foundation for something new. Which is much better than just being a close-minded tool who calls everyone cringe out of insecurity instead of actually contributing. I just think having an exchange of ideas and discussion is worth it in itself, even if it ultimately goes nowhere. I want to see more of this on the board.

>>18809798
This. Better to have tried and failed, etc.

>>18809700
>I posted this in the last thread, but I will reiterate: if any 'movement' starts up from a poster here then it will be a simple expression of anon. We all know in some way what binds us; look at the memes, the common threads.
For further inspiration we might perhaps look at a certain wall in Berlin; parts of it still standing, an abstractly concrete canvas extending across temporal dimensions; its cold hardness matched only by the metal, bare or virtual, upon which our current conversation is taking place, albeit spiritually being the same. I feel as though we should rest assured that, with the influence of zen meditation and collective consciousnesses on the proposed movement, as well as the anonymous nature of the board, all works produced here will be the penned by those we call Anon, at least in spirit.

>Whether or not it is any good or if it inspires others, I do not know (I doubt it, as our plight is unattractive and our malaise is more likely to have us on the news for school shooters or people arrested for being racist on twitter).
There have been plenty of underground art movements that have garnered quite a lot of renown; that I can assure you. Which ones they are, I'm not so certain. But they were worthy of artistic appreciation and respect.

>>18809739
Yeah, I think anons might be surprised at what they might accomplish if they took themselves seriously here once in a while. It's not like the irony has to go anywhere.

But anyhow I'm getting awfully tired thinking about all of this, so in any case I hope to see anons in another thread like this in case I need to log off for now. Thus far, it's been a pleasure. Cheers.

This story that some /lit/ anon wrote. I think about it a lot. The humor and nihilism.
1/2
“Button,” said Jim.

“Brrraaaaaautton,” said the parrot.

Jim could not see out of his left eye. An eyepatch lay where there was once dignity. His corset was tight, and a bright crimson red. Pants? No. He wore pantaloons. Pants were for men with jobs with dignity. He was something lesser. Something inhuman.

“Keep your hands inside of the ride at all times,” said Jim without any passion. Once the passengers settled in, he turned the key of the console and pressed a green button. This happened every day of the summer. He was twenty-three.

“This is the last summer,” he told himself. After this year, he'd have his Bachelors of History from a middling college in the middle of a city nobody cared about. Children screamed far away, and then ceased, and then screamed again. Today there was no line. A few teenage boys had ridden the ride five or six times in a row now. Every time the boys disembarked, they made a show of running to the back of the barricades. After weaving through the iron maze, they would smile at Jim, as if they had never seen him before. They were obnoxious.

It was a simple ride. A trolley disguised as a pirate ship ran along a track submerged in water. It went up, and up, and up, and then down and around. The whole ordeal took two minutes and forty-five seconds on the dot. Pirate Quest Adventure was a miracle of modern engineering. It was also far away from every other ride in the park, right between the bathrooms and an ice-cream stand.

The parrot was Jim's only company. Sometimes, Anna-Maria from the ice-cream stand would come over to offer Jim leftovers. Anna-Maria did not work today, a fact which Jim knew, as he always checked the schedules for her name. On the days their schedules did not intersect, there was an added dread to clocking in. Days where Anna did work were bearable. Even on days where they both worked parallel hours, seeing Anna-Maria was not guaranteed. The hope of leftovers kept Jim sane.

Part of Jim's training included parrot maintenance. It was alive, unfortunately. Jim's white pantaloons had crackers stuffed into them. His phone, as well as his wallet and keys, were in a locker somewhere. Should Mr. Mendelzberg come by and find him in possession of anything other than crackers, he would be in trouble. The parrot shat non-stop. A plastic cover over his arm helped to lessen the number of times a week Jim had to wash his uniform.

“I smell like parrot shit,” he thought to himself out loud. It was a moment of fierce introspection. “I smell like parrot shit, and Anna-Maria knows it.”

“SKrAAAAARRRR,” said the bird, its beak inches from Jim's ear. The bird shit again.

>>18810047
2/2
Jim stared into the running water. His expression was empty. He looked at the submerged track. Two minutes and thirty seconds had passed since he pressed the green button on the console. The sound of machinery and puberty echoed down the track.

Fifteen seconds remained when Anna-Maria tapped Jim on his good shoulder.

“Hey!” she said. “How's it going today, bud?” Her voice was special. It occurred to Jim that he was older than her.

“Oh, hey. I thought you were off today.” What a fuck-up. He gave himself away.

“Oh, I took Courtney’s shift. We had some extra ice cream today. Did you want some?” Anna-Maria did not deduce his autistic schedule checking habit from his knowledge of her shift.

“Yeah, thanks.”

Anna-Maria left. All that remained were the boys, still writhing in the ship. “Time to disembark, mateys.” Jim knew that he smelled like shit. The boys ran the maze again, and boarded again. Jim breathed heavier. He thought about how he smelled.

“BRaaaaaaaaaAAAAAaaaaaaaaarRRRR,” said the parrot. Jim could feel blood shoot into his eyes.

“Brrrrraaarrrr. Die! Die! Die!” said the bird. Jim looked at the console with the key and the big green button. He closed his eyes and pressed the button. This would be the boys’ sixth expedition into the known. Anna-Maria was bringing him ice cream. She would smile when she gave it to him. It meant something. It meant...

When Jim opened his eyes, the console had only one button. It was black with a skull and crossbones in the middle. Jim breathed in deep through his nose and out of his mouth. As Anna-Maria turned the corner, she saw him punch the console with all his might.

I want to see people rewrite my joke.
The prose is bad, but this is due to the story’s function as an alchemical formulae: it’s functionally perfect.
One anon wanted to see it reinterpreted as a story of about a schizo and a meth cooker, and while I wouldn’t write that myself, I wouldn’t mind reading it.
Another anon says it’s badly written, and I’d like to see him do better.
If you view the joke as an outline, it can be reformulated into any number of things.

Naïf movement started in the late 1800s it gained recognition in the early 1900s through the 40s. It regained popularity in the 80s with the ny art scene and punk do it yourself attitude.

4chan Naiveté

>>18810359
4chanism

>>18806874
>>/lit/thread/S18076492#p18077197

I'm reminded by a short conversation with Frater. An analysis of the symbolism of the children's film "Secret of Kells" may prove useful in developing an aesthetic of Naiveté....

>>18810448
The film's progression is:
>monastery awaits impending destruction
>attempts to resist or restore are in vain
>Experienced protag tasked with completing an illuminated Christogram of the Kells gospel book (artistic incarnation of the Logos) despite world's end
The Chi-Rho page, note, lacks vegetation, it's mostly higher-order patterning, machinery, etc...
>He begins as follows:
>encounter/friendship with nature (practicing drawing vegetation)
>encounter with the angelic world of geometry and shapes through a sacerdotal banishing of an anti-natural pagan snake-demon into an eternal hell

You all are no better than Waldun and his Merry Band of Poets

how am I doing?

>>18806996
Yes this is perfect. Even the name naïveté reflects this. Because knowledge holds both good and evil as that is what the fruit in the garden of Eden harnesses before it’s eating. Nothing anyone did was bad or good, merely naive. Now right now I might be mistaken but naïveté seems to be more of a vague rallying word that different people were all trying to put their juices into. Even I in the last thread tried to persuade things in a certain direction more in line with my philosophy of art, but maybe that’s the point. To bring a philosophy of art that is more individualistic and less imitative or meant to appeal to anyone but the author or maybe that is me just trying to put my juices into it. Anyways here’s an unfinished poem.
Eons before the worlds dawn.
God’s waking yawn.
Two beasts emerged from solar birth.
Engaged in battle before the primordial earth.
As they tower in size and pomp.
Leviathan and Behemoth’s power in demise and romp, as they made the earth shake.
The Behemoth’s terrible stomps that make the earth quake.
The Leviathan did stir and toss and when it and the Behemoths paths crossed.
Unrivaled incineration would you have came across.

Those who wish to identify as christians should turn away from Naiveté.
It is for the Others.

>>18810809
Good thing Christianity is a dead and useless movement or else this might be a meaningful threat

>>18810828
No threat implied, and christianity is unfortunately still around.

>>18810852
post age and physique

>>18810873
No.

>>18810685
i love you, anon
naivete can take on any perspective or viewpoint, the key is admitting world exists at large and simultaneously every other perspective does.
we don't push an agenda even if we do.

>assert that Naivete is something other than christianity (other than abrahamic really) and that they should move along to other things
>an ever peaceful christian takes it as a threat and wants “to fucking go bro”
>not realizing the only thing at threat here is Naivete itself, as a flower outside of and more beautiful than any in the garden of abrahamism

>>18811971
you can be Christian and naive, the only people who cant are posers that hoard labels to look cool. because naivete is inherently uncool.

>We were naked and unashamed
>and it proved them wrong
>so they brought us clothes at swordpoint
>as was recommended in their “holy” books

>>18806874
Bamp

>>18813367
no u

the direction &amp takes is what has spoken to me the most in the last few years honestly. all movements seem devoid of uniqueness, but &amp has a distinct voice (even if only NEET-schizos know about it) and a specific way of directing you to it's ideas.

>>18815290
&amp is kill anon

I just had an insight

There is something about the movement which is about the end of all movements, like they all tried to go beyond monotheism, and in the end they are sterile compared to God's inspiration. And yet it refuses to go back to god. It is like uber mensch, and like Buddhism, because the movement is in itself both a failure and a success, in its ultimacy

>>18815423
>There is something about the movement which is about the end of all movements, like they all tried to go beyond monotheism, and in the end they are sterile
Great "insight" bro.
You are most tiresome and antithetical to the movement.
Hermaphroditic fertility is precosmogonic and divine. The ultimate naivete: the fusion of sperm and egg in utero. The ideology: a freeze frame of the innocence just before the explosion of cellular division which leads to birth and life.
You can be on your way.

>>18806874
So clown world movement?

>>18815604
More innocent than that. Joy without irony.

This has to be one of the most pretentious threads I've had the displeasure of reading on this board holy fuck

>>18815754
Stop being ironic.

>>18815312
I know, I'm just hopeful they try to revive it

The worrying #IncomingStorm of tropical Caribbean calypso notes keep crashing on his poor Whitey head. He could jump back to the days of Nativist Appalachian-Irish dances and dulcimers, but these times are all over now. The jig is up guys : the 76th Southern marching band, full of Dixie tricolour tears and purple love, blessed by their classical love of 19th century European outfits, expulsing genuine un-self-aware blow-how from their flȇrdelé reeding reeds, is finally returning to the long-awaited Biloxi-Mobile Salvation Corp of Peace. There, they can be exploited and manipulated in a Guantanamo-tier camp for naive darkies. Filmed by a series of aligned nomenklatura West Coast plates deeply linked to the ramifications of the US Army while they’re walking down the streets of Baton Rouge near a neo-Mardi Gras burger joint. In a parallel note, they will have to deal with the loss of one copper alto saxophone, poor ‘n’ young Christianegro Albert, a real sun of a gun, dying of sad water overdose by at least the very early 1970s. If you get near the pond where he died, you can still hear him blowing his gentle old timey mouth, either like a lost ‘n’ found picture of a 1940s couple standing on a Puerto Rico coasting boat while pretending to drink with straws from empty halves of sundried coconuts or like a passionate circular seashell of ocean feel that you would find in a sundry shop… all of this quiet music, tenderly.

>>18815776
???

>>18815775
Why did it die?

>>18815776
Reads like schizobabble, but not unpleasurable was the experience.

>>18816465
Thanks for the feedback.
That's the effect intended.
I want to make these kind of texts, brash and bizarre, but with a lot of heart inside.
Some sentences have to re-writted, because the phonetics and certain ponctuation marks aren't that good. It needs to flow better.

also, i'm ESL.

>>18816559
* re-written

This is dark academia tier. Fuck off back to Twitter subhumans

>>18816559
Now that you mention it, in fact, I see this as written in a sort of style that I had been aiming at, as I'd typed out something yesterday talking about it but was a bit too tired to post, added below:

>>18807642
>The insight I'm trying to communicate is that acceptance of these dual realities as an orgasmic whole could be a feature of naivete.
Agreed, it should be; as should, I opine, the delving into the abstract as a means of expressing the totality of conscious existence in a bit more of a raw manner than strict adherence to an "objective" reality could afford. Perhaps going a bit further than postmodernism itself has thus far, such that the plot of a narrative, instead of being de-emphasized, could instead just be broken or disregarded entirely in sacrifice toward a different kind of pursuit; that being a deeper, intuitive expression, the meaning of which the authors and artists themselves might not quite understand on a conscious level, and in a world that may or may not be quite consistent when examined as a closed system. As along the lines you've mentioned, it doesn't matter whether or not Bateman is a murderer or strictly delusional, or in fact it does and that's why it's so captivating; to the reader he's probabilistically both via superposition. If he's a murderer one chapter, or paragraph, or sentence, and the next he's a harmless psychotic, or it's made clear at the outset that he's both without a plot reveal and the two states are never distinguished, what does it matter really? Would it matter if he were caught and punished one chapter and a few following chapters were written as if it had never happened in the first place, and later on it became a courthouse drama, or perhaps those elements of the story were blended altogether in the same prose, to be added again with yet more? This being done could perhaps afford the artist with contextualizations hitherto unafforded; colors yet not seen.

The outcome I can only assume being somewhat like what's written here. A perhaps more direct appeal to emotion, maybe to the point of what appears to be delirium. Really enjoy this part:
>If you get near the pond where he died, you can still hear him blowing his gentle old timey mouth, either like a lost ‘n’ found picture of a 1940s couple standing on a Puerto Rico coasting boat while pretending to drink with straws from empty halves of sundried coconuts or like a passionate circular seashell of ocean feel that you would find in a sundry shop… all of this quiet music, tenderly.

I'd say it was a pleasure to read, yeah.

>>18815776
I like it