/lit/ - Literature

Write it yourself as a philosophic exercise.

>>18773496
The most obvious argument against gnosticism is the goodness in the world, but they just say that beauty is a mere shadow of true goodness and that you're being led astray by archontic tricks when you start to find beauty in the kenoma

"The Demiurge" by René Guénon.

>>18773491
the vedas, the dhammapada, the tao etc.

The Gnostics know the science. at least the initiated ones, but they don't fully understand it because they use cancerous Abrahamism as their foundation.

They ask a legit question using legit Platonic foundations but they don't understand yugas so they think the material world now is the way it always is, which it isn't. They also don't understand karma. We are in what the Nords call midgard and the Vedics call Bhur-loka. This means we are in the middle, there are lower realms and higher realms. This loka is like what Christcucks call purgatory a kind of incubator for young souls so they don't pollute the higher realms. Or a place people who fail a grade get flunked back down too if you will.

Start with this to learn the schematics:
The Sacred Cosmology
https://esotericawakening.com/the-sacred-cosmology

This to learn the sceince:
What Is Reality? The Holofractal Universe
https://esotericawakening.com/what-is-reality-the-holofractal-universe

And lastly this for a layman friendly synthesis:
Multi-Dimensional Reality Described In The Vedas
https://esotericawakening.com/multi-dimensional-reality

In a sense the Gnostics are right, the demiurge is the "God" of this realm or this plane. It is no different than hindu or only more retarded and less knowlegeable.

Vishnu has many lords that watch over things for him but they are still all technically him, he just divides himself into different portions of concsinuess to perform different roles.

Krishna, Shiva, Brahma etc etc to eternity are all still Vishnu but they are also separate so you give them their own name. The demiurge is still part of the one, not separate from it so the Gnostic notion it is some rogue, malevolent God is nonsensical and childish once you understand this.

Start with this 5 min vid of Brahma talking to Krishna before the other articles. Trust me, follow this exact path and you should understand it all I think after this explanation to get you started.

Little Krishna speaks with Lord Brahma [Extract]
https://ugetube.com/watch/little-krishna-speaks-with-lord-brahma-extract_uHm2dZ2JqVOujyz.html

>>18773505
By any moral standard the world is clearly mostly evil. In other words: we live in a world where good things happen as the exception rather than the rule. This fact is grappled with and explanations are attempted by nearly all religious traditions, not just Gnosticism.

>>18773523
Gnostics are the only ones who say the world is an evil prison though

>>18773505
>that you're being led astray by archontic tricks when you start to find beauty in the kenoma
not all gnostic schools say this

>>18773582
Isn't the premise of gnosticism that we're being kept here by an evil/stupid god?

>>18773522
I forgot to add, the demiurge is still lord Brahma, refer tot he video I posted. They are calling the brahma of this plane the demiurge but in reality it is still just a regular brahma doing his job for Vishnu just like every other Brahma of every other plane, Her isnt evil, he is just chilling you know doing his job

>>18773610
This does seem like a more mature view but I'm still uncertain and scared of the possibility that the internet gnostics are right and once I die I'll get forced to come back here unless I'm prepared in some way

>>18773594
not the part i responded to. there is difference of opinion on what to make of the good of this world. some think that "good" is itself divine and from another world. so they would say that if its good, then its Good, but its dim.

>>18773491
>part of me wants to buy into their bullshit

>>18773622
It's convincing bullshit

>>18773620
Well, as I said, I gave you all the science and explained how to interpret it. Don't take mine or anyone else's word for it. Prove it for yourself, I have you everything you need to do it. It is all there. Trust I was freaking the fuck out too when I first started learning all this science. I mean wtf do you tell someone when they figure the Matrix movies are for all practical purposes a true story. Obviously you start looking for the keys and back doors and are terrified you are trapped here. It took me many years to figure all this out, I wouldnt take anyone else's word or interpretation, I had to figure out for myself. I suggest you do the same. That is my website, I made it for people like you so it wouldn't take you as long as it took me to put all this shit together.

>>18773620
read the emerald tablets of thoth (they are also there). They might be a forgery or they might not. It isnt important, what is important is they are right and you can prove it

>>18773629
I'll take a look, thanks

>>18773571
I mean debatably some versions of Hindusim basically say this too but regardless, what I meant was that an appeal to the "goodness" in the world would be a rebuke to basically all religions, not just Gnosticism.

>>18773634
gl bro, when you knock on the doors of the temple they will open. Those that seek ... find.

>>18773491
Is this christcuck posting?

>>18773522
The picture youre painting of vishnu isnt very benevolent. Can he be escaped?

>>18773650
escape to where lol? He is the entire reality. Vishnu and Krishna are the same person. How can you not love Krishna? He is beautiful. That is one thing I always hated about Christuckery even as a kid. It is some very dark shit, jewed af. Never any pics of Jesus happy as a kid or smiling, always some droll, masochistic shit. Even Churches are scary as a kid. Who the fuck would think that shit comes from a God of love? Abrahamism is the dark side, the cancer of the kali yuga. Krishna is the light, radiant and beautiful. Read the Bhagavad Gita mate. He only put you here to experience and learn how love so you are able to vibrate at a high enough frequency to move up lokas


Bhagavad Gita (Full Version Beautifully Recited in English)
https://ugetube.com/watch/bhagavad-gita-full-version-beautifully-recited-in-english_YM8xY6IzXxxWZe1.html

Bhagavad Gita | Sanskrit Verses on Yoga | Relaxing Meditation
https://ugetube.com/watch/bhagavad-gita-sanskrit-verses-on-yoga-relaxing-meditation_Ak6sGeWnRkxVoLN.html

>>18773650
Here you want to know what Krishna is?

Start here:
https://ugetube.com/watch/hare-krishna-maha-mantra-george-harrison_m1qtjp1PEG2Intp.html

then here
https://ugetube.com/watch/krishna-das-hare-krishna_u4tdCUheFmK5QGm.html

rejoice mate, krishna loves you more than you will ever know. He is you and you are him how can he not?

>>18773663
Not the guy you responded to and not even a Hinduist but reading the Gita I did get the clear impression of Krishna being all-powerful and mysterious yet infinitely loving and benevolent. I never got that from the Old Testament at any point, nor from any of the gospels aside from John.

>>18773673
The Jews are Shvites. They are here to do the dark work of the kali yuga, they are virus infecting everything. Not to say Shiva is even dark really, he is still based too but he has a job to do like everything else. For a baby bird to be born first something to crack the egg. Shiva isnt evil, he is just the destroyer, to create something new first you have to destroy the old.

I am not hindu either mate, these are just names for eternal truths. Every culture had their own name for these Gods and functions. The names arent important learning how it all works is so you understand what these different roles and why they are here. Hindu is the rolls royce, the origin of it all. Everything else is a cheap knock off

>>18773663
I get that he is smiling in pictures but its the same problem i have with christcuckery. I didnt ask to be tested, and if a god lets bad be bad, then either his powers are limited or he is in some way bad. If i cant escape, then fine, ill deal. But im unable to be impressed with the Absolute and its contents. If i am indeed vishnu, then damn am i tired of being and torturing myself ;( and none of my own emanations can convince me that I’m not allowed to ask for an apology from myself. And as me, I shall present that long deserved apology and fix what was done... Now... now... now... now...

>>18773712
refer to Nietchze, "beyond good and evil." These are illusions. There is no good or evil, only creation and destruction, low vibration and high vibration. You ever read the book Sphere by Michael Chricthon? If not at least watch the movie. They created their own worst nightmares when given the power to manifest reality from the ether.

You are a young soul, you aren't ready for this yogic power. It doesn't if you asked to be tested. To become a Monad in moksha, you have to learn to crawl before you walk.

This world isn't real, nothing of this is real. You are an actor in a movie you have convinced yourself is real, it isn't. It is a scripted play and you have to play your part if you want a bigger role. You have to learn pain, so when you have this yogic power you can practice empathy. I know man it is fucked up until you can gain a higher perspective. You have to realize we are just brains in a jar in a VR simulation. We are only here to experience.

The Egyptians used to say you had to experience every emotion to ascend, just like a piano, you have to play every key, every note.

Like spider-man fighting mysterio, you have to stop believing the illusion is real to conquer it. Mara told the Buddha, these armies are my witness who do you have to speak for you? The Buddha said I see through you, the Earth is my witness.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wbDNlTXatp4

I used to think my life was a tragedy, now I know it is a comedy -Joker

>>18773744
>low vibration and high vibration.
Aren't these new age terms?

>>18773748
This knowledge is as old as time itself, you just have to have the eyes to see it when you are reading the ancient texts

What is the antignostic response to this?

https://archive.org/details/moksha_video_20190830

https://archive.org/details/1947RoswellAl.INTERVIEWMatildaODonnellMacElroy/mode/1up

>>18773770
Wow I know this dude. Damn I havent seen this video since like 2016 I had forgotten all about it.

>>18773779
So what's your take?

>>18773784
well fuck my dude the video is 45 mins long. I mean as I said learnt he science is all you can do and then you can learn why these people came up with these ideas and whether you agree or not.

I know all the science, I know for 100% there are tons of other dimensions and levels to this reality, even ones that overlap in this one. The higher realms are less dense, like in your dreams. You can fly, you dont feel pain etc. The only real discrepancies is how to get to the higher ones. Once you learn newtons laws, cause and effect etc. You begin to understand karma and how it effects everything in the matrix. Once you understand density and vibration you realize you have to vibrate higher to get to the higher realms. The highest human vibration is love, like a cat purring etc so the hindus say we are here to learn how to love God purely then we vibrate high enough to move to higher lokas. I mean you can learn all the science and know it makes sense but the exact key out of this dimensions is up for debate and you will never be able to prove it from our perspective and with our avatars limitations. The emerald tablets imply you have to learn how do astral travelling to get out. IDK man I have spent 20 years trying to figure all this out. I wrote about this stuff in my articles. read them

>>18773809
The point of the video isn't really science, it's that the guy remote viewed that the earth was a prison planet and that when we die we get trapped by a mechanism that erases our memories and forces us to come back here, and that the machine is run by malevolent beings who harvest energy out of souls and don't want to let us go
Doesn't seem very benevolent to me

>>18773784
ok I will tell you this from 11:53 in the video. I used to think, and I still do to be honest, that we are all here for a set period of time and the only way our souls get out is through some magnetic field, what thoht calls the gates of amenti. I thin it is like a timer safe, like a bank vault, When the planets align a very specific way the field opens and we can get out but not before then. I do however also think these may be a hidden way out and you can possibly find it if you spend your life making enough money to buy the kinda fucking tools you would need to try and find magnetic field gaps in the heavens. People that know about this kind of shit think it is somewhere in the gates of capricorn I believe I forget. Santos Bonacci talks about it in a video I have on the website.

Personally I think we all get eventually pushed out with a new batch of souls eventually for the ones that didnt figure out how to get out yet. I think the gates open every 24,000 years or something. I have sources for all this shit also btw, these people who know this stuff didnt just pull it out their ass, they know what they are talking about

>>18773816
Well again, this is a gnstic interpretation. I know people who have yogic powers and can do psychic shit and all kinda paranoirmal stuff but someone just telling me their only proof of something is they remote viewed it or some shit just isnt gonna cut with with me. I am first and foremost a scientist by training and nature. Don't tell me, show me. If you cant show me then I am just gonna give you a pat on the back and say that's nice. You have a belief, he has a belief, there are billions of beliefs and schizos so w/e.

>>18773828
So we're trapped here until the current cycle ends? Fucking bleak man

>>18773834
He's not the only remote viewer to have seen this, there are several more who report seeing the same stuff

>>18773836
I mean I dont know this for fact. I am just saying the science works out for it to be possible. It isnt necessarily bleak. Like Alan watts said, it would be a terrible bore to always be you so when you come back you come back as someone else.

>>18773838
Well my dude the VR is interactive it can be as dark or as amazing as your imagination makes to be just like total recall. You want it dark? Here you go. You want an adventure? Here you go. You want to find the source like Neo? Here you go etc etc. If that is what you want to focus on then that is what will consume you. I know the prime creator is love and light because it is here, he also obviously has quite a dark sense of humor but only people who dont have a sense of humor see it as evil because they have fused to deep into the sim and think it is real when it isnt

>>18773845
At that point even having a sense of humor doesn't cut it. The guy describes the beings who maintain the machine as pure evil and selfishness, no love there, just desire for power and control.

>>18773849
Well when he can prove it to me then I will believe it. Until then, the writers of the Vedas were so much more spiritually and telepathically beyond modern humans, I will take their word for it. I have never found a single flaw in the science and interpretation of that science in the vedas

>>18773859
Could it be that religious texts were fabricated as tools of control?

>>18773861
Obviously, that is what God made Jews for

>>18773862
The Vedas I mean, and all the other texts

>>18773865
nah I have researched it all baclwards and forwards, the history is all true. I mean now you are in getting to the annunaki cult shit. They believe this same exact shit as the gnostics only instead of archons they say it was the ayys. Nah if it was true and important it would be in the Vedas they are legit. I already asked myself and all these questions and did all this reserach a long time ago

>>18773876
What convinced you of the legitimacy of the vedas?

>>18773881
All the science AND the history is true. I spent years verifying it all and have all the proof

>>18773884
Could you be more specific

>>18773491
>Before anyone recommends Plotinus, his criticism is lackluster and basically him going "I'm right and you're wrong".
Another retard who hasn't even read him.

>>18773907
>lol if ur gnostic y u dont just kys xDDdd
So this is the power of Neoplatonism...

>>18773637
>what I meant was that an appeal to the "goodness" in the world would be a rebuke to basically all religions,
Uhh, no it wouldn't. Stop projecting your life denying fetishism onto others.

>>18773903
I dont how you can be more specific. I researched all the Sumerian shit all the ancient accounts to get the bottom of it all, the origin before the Jews changed it all. I went back as far as I could, and when you go back as far as you can go there you find the Vedas before all the jewed shit in the kali yuga

>>18773913
Yeah but that isn't proof that they're true, just that they're older.

>>18773911
Yet another retard who hasn't read him.

>>18773921
Not an argument. Burden of proof is on you.

>>18773920
I already said I fact checked it all. Are you some /x/ tard? Don't you know how to fact check shit my dude?

>>18773924
How do you fact check ancient scripture? Christians will tell you they fact checked the Bible that doesn't mean anything

>>18773926
Yah but Christians are idiots. I, on the other hand, am not

>>18773923
The burden of proof is on you to show that you've even understood Plotinus. Judging by the two posts you've already made it seems you're entirely uneducated, and so I will simply ignore your posts until you actually engage with him. (Hint: The only times Plotinus comes close to stating "I'm right, you're wrong", is when he cites Plato's dialogues or his previous writings, because there is no need for him to make two of the same arguments in separate places).

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Empiricism
Start there.

>>18774016
Bugman

>>18773816
Ever been well and truly in love? I refuse to believe that itself is a mechanism created by malevolence. Ever walk in the forest on a warm summer day? Why make it so peaceful and calming? You could say that these things are just to goad you to live your life, but what need would there be to create that for us? Don't they just want us to die, anyway? And if not, why create concepts that are good? What need would there be for any of that, instead of just forcing us, like with the fear of death? Unless the claim is that they didn't have anything to do with creation, but they use it to their advantage. And if you forget all about your past life, then it doesn't really matter that it goes on infinity. From your incarnation's point of view, this is the first and last time you'll exist

>>18773884
>All the science AND the history is true.
What science is that?

>>18773924
>Are you some /x/ tard?
Anon, you do realize the irony of saying this, considering your posts sound very /x/-like?

>>18773663
The eastern church has some icons that have baby Christ smiling in them. I admit they are pretty rare though.

>>18774021
The claim the guy makes in the video is that they didn't create this planet, just the control systems that prevent escape and force reincarnation.
>From your incarnation's point of view, this is the first and last time you'll exist
That sucks though

>>18774024
In the articles I linked

>>18774026
Yah well I can prove everything I said here. I dont care what you believe, I only care what you can prove.

>>18774032
>The claim the guy makes in the video is that they didn't create this planet, just the control systems that prevent escape and force reincarnation.
Fair enough, I didn't watch the video. What would escaping mean? What would become of "you" if you did?
>That sucks though
Sure, but then the cycle itself doesn't really matter, so being stuck forever loses its malevolent effect somewhat. Every life will be the first and only life to whatever person you happen to be, so being stuck in a cycle doesn't really matter for any of them

>>18774026
btw who do you think taught them all this shit to begin with?

>>18774045
>What would escaping mean?
Leaving this planet.
>What would become of "you" if you did?
Your soul would be free to go wherever it wants from there.
>doesn't really matter
The memory erasure process is apparently extremely violent and traumatic for the soul. That aside, staying on this planet just doesn't seem that great considering the direction the world is heading towards.

>>18774044
>Yah well I can prove everything I said here.
How exactly do you prove it? How has the science been used to establish cause and effect? What experiments have been done?
>I dont care what you believe
I don't know what I believe
>I only care what you can prove.
I'm not sure proof means the same for you and I

>>18774061
>How exactly do you prove it?
You put forth your assertion, then you provide the proof like any other realm of discussion or debate.

>I'm not sure proof means the same for you and I
I have a degree from one of the best Universities in the country in computer science. I took every kind of science elective it is possible to take. Double minored in anthropology and business. Graduated cum laude with honors and multiple scholarships. I KNOW what proof is. I have no idea what you think it is or why it would be different for you for some reason. You can either prove something is true or you can't it is not a grey area.

>>18774057
>Your soul would be free to go wherever it wants from there.
Go where, exactly? And what would the soul be capable of? And would the soul's "personality" be an amalgamation of all your lives?
>staying on this planet just doesn't seem that great considering the direction the world is heading towards.
Are you kidding? The further we go along, the more control over nature we're gaining. Who knows what that could entail. Unless you subscribe to the idea that we'll destroy ourselves (Which is certainly possible). I don't know how you can predict if the future will end up being bad or good. We're living in unprecedented times. For humans the world is much different than it has ever been, and it's still changing

>>18774068
I will add one caveat here. There are plenty of people that are too stupid to understand the proof.I see this all the time, it doesn't change the fact that it is true none the less

>>18774068
>You put forth your assertion, then you provide the proof like any other realm of discussion or debate.
What proof, anon? What experiment has proven this hypothesis? Where's the apple falling from the tree?
>have a degree from one of the best Universities in the country in computer science. I took every kind of science elective it is possible to take. Double minored in anthropology and business. Graduated cum laude with honors and multiple scholarships.
Yeah, but many others who don't share your conclusions can also show a list of academic achievements. Is the entire scientific community wrong, since they don't understand/know about the proof that confirms your hypothesis?
>I KNOW what proof is. I have no idea what you think it is or why it would be different for you for some reason. You can either prove something is true or you can't it is not a grey area.
But you don't subscribe to the traditional scientific method, right? And shit dude, Terrence Andrew Davis was undoubtedly a man of great intelligence and took his beliefs as a matter of course, but what he counted as proof was a lot different from others. The guy was a schizophrenic

>>18774070
>Go where, exactly
The remote viewing experiments report a kind of soul superhighway, from which various realms on various levels of existence can be accessed.
>what would the soul be capable of?
Unclear, but it seems to be what religions call the subtle body with all that entails
>would the soul's "personality" be an amalgamation of all your lives?
Not really, it seems that the soul corresponds to the higher self and that individual personalities are a narrowing down of the higher self or something. I'm not an expert on this just to be clear.
>The further we go along, the more control over nature we're gaining.
Yeah but the world is going to shit and spirituality is dying.

>>18774088
>Yeah but the world is going
As compared to when? And how do you know what the world is heading towards? Like I said, the time period the human race is going through is completley and utterly unknown. There is no comparison to be found in history
>and spirituality is dying.
Is it? Is it dying throughout the entire world, and how do you know this? If you're talking about religion in the west, then yes, that seems to be receding, but that doesn't mean spirituality is

>>18774096
Religion and spirituality are hardly separable

>>18774099
Maybe true, but a person can be spiritual without having a codified religion. When you then see Christianity dying out in the western world, then that isn't proof of spirituality dying, just that religion. Some scientists who study Quantum Mechanics have spiritual feelings about it, but that doesn't make it a religion in the definition of the word. You could be spiritual about feelings. Looking at it as more than just biology. That doesn't make it a point of worship

>>18774087
Dude I have posted numerous links in this thread already. I said that is my website and everything you need to prove everything I said here beyond question is there. If you haven't looked and if you aren't going to look at it why are we having this conversation?

>Yeah, but many others who don't share your conclusions can also show a list of academic achievements.
Ok I dont care about their academic and never asked you to care about mine. I simply stated and PROVED I know what constitutes proof of something otherwise I wouldnt have a degree from a University in a difficult field of science. I am not even saying everyone who has a degree is a smart, in fact I knew a PhD, a literal rocket scientist that didnt have the common sense to understand basic logic often times. But I will tell you this, they know wtf proof is and how to present it. They aren't like gender studies leftards who graduate college and dont have the faintest clue how to interpret the world around them or how to fact check and prove anything.

> Is the entire scientific community wrong, since they don't understand/know about the proof that confirms your hypothesis?
No they have been purposefully misled however with Einsteinian quackery. All the ancients knew what I have explained to you here and most legitimate scientists up until the 30 knew it too.

>But you don't subscribe to the traditional scientific method, right?
I'm not even gonna respond to this. This is just stupid. All science is is a process. If you arent following the scientific method then you arent doing science, you are doing voodoo or religion (Abrahamic religion anyway).

>And shit dude, Terrence Andrew Davis was undoubtedly a man of great intelligence and took his beliefs as a matter of course, but what he counted as proof was a lot different from others. The guy was a schizophrenic
Ok wtf does this have to do with anything? Anyhow as I said if you want to take the time to actually look at what I am talking about here and the proofs I spent a lifetime gathering and hours upon hours to write the articles and make a website to put them on why are we even having this conversation? Are you OP? You asked a question and I gave you the answer and the proof to back it up, simple as

>>18774019
>aristotle was a bugman
bold claim

>>18774130
I just tend to be wary of the "spiritual but not religious" crowd

>>18774169
It is the other way around who you gotta look out for bud. NPCs are religious

>>18774169
spiritual people never burned people at the stake for witch craft

>>18774173
>>18774180
Fair enough but without a clear path for your spiritual endeavors you're reinventing the wheel and walking in the dark. Systems like yoga in Hinduism or prayer and contemplation in Christianity are there to provide people with the wisdom of the past and clear guidelines so that they don't waste their time chasing experiences instead of genuine advancement.

>>18774189
Well sure but just like computer science or chess, a wunderkid doesn't always need guidance, they can figure it out on their own, mostly only NPC need a manual to understand how to live a righteous and moral life.

The golden rule is pretty simple. I will say though the dhammapada is written like a manual and my autism loved it. Literally every situation you can ever face in life is covered in some buddhist text telling you the best way to deal with it step by step.

>>18774135
>I said that is my website and everything you need to prove everything I said here beyond question is there. If you haven't looked and if you aren't going to look at it why are we having this conversation?
Because I'd just want to know if you actually have a experiment that can be replicated before I read through your site. Have peers reviewed your findings?
>I simply stated and PROVED I know what constitutes proof of something otherwise
No, you stated that proof was proof
>I wouldnt have a degree from a University in a difficult field of science
You can have a degree and still be mentally unsound witha warped perspective. Not that you are, necessarily
>they know wtf proof is and how to present it. They aren't like gender studies leftards who graduate college and dont have the faintest clue how to interpret the world around them or how to fact check and prove anything.
Yeah, but who else in the scientific community is studying this? Who else is publishing studies on the matter? I mean, dude, you have PROOF of it. There should be a whole lot more people than you talking about it
>All the ancients knew what I have explained to you here and most legitimate scientists up until the 30 knew it too.
Being ancient is hardly a measure of credibility. They were just people who lived long before you and needed explanations for the natural world around them. They didn't have "proof" in the modern sense of the word
>I'm not even gonna respond to this. This is just stupid. All science is is a process. If you arent following the scientific method then you arent doing science, you are doing voodoo or religion (Abrahamic religion anyway).
Why not respond to it? Do you believe that to prove a hypothesis you have to perform experiments that can be replicated reliably, like dropping a small and a big bowling ball at the same time and watching them both fall with the same speed?
>Anyhow as I said if you want to take the time to actually look at what I am talking about here and the proofs I spent a lifetime gathering and hours upon hours to write the articles and make a website to put them on why are we even having this conversation?
Anon, I'm going to be frank; I don't have much faith in your lucidity, because you sound like someone from /x/. I don't think you have proof that would hold up to scientific scrutiny. I'd be more inclined to believe you if you didn't state all this shit as fact, because I doubt you can present it as such

>>18774209
>Because I'd just want to know if you actually have a experiment that can be replicated before I read through your site. Have peers reviewed your findings?
Since the beginning of time by all the greatest minds who ever lived. It isnt my science all I did was explain it so retards can understand it.

w/e man you are wasting my time. If you were interested in proof you would already be looking for it. You asked a question and I gave you the answer and the proof. Obviously you arent interested in it, you just want to slap your gums shitposting as most people in this shithole website. Which is fine I enjoy my fair share of shitposting but don't feign interest in something and then when someone takes you seriously and takes the time to try and help you along you just jerk off instead.

The one eternal truth, OP is always a faggot

>>18774228
>Since the beginning of time by all the greatest minds who ever lived
What experiments?
> It isnt my science all I did was explain it so retards can understand it.
You haven't explained any science. You're using cicular logic to state that the proof of proof is that it is proof
>w/e man you are wasting my time. If you were interested in proof you would already be looking for it
If you were able to provide some, you would
>You asked a question and I gave you the answer and the proof.
You have yet to give any proof
>Obviously you arent interested in i
I am more interested in you, true. But I wouldn't ignore proof if you were to give it. You haven't
>The one eternal truth, OP is always a faggot
I'm not OP, but that one is definitely tried and true

>>18774203
Yeah but why reinvent the wheel when people before you figured this shit out and left you thousands of pages of texts to guide you?
It's not just the golden rule, it's also stuff like how to not be fooled by entities when you explore other realms for example, or how to not mistake powers for spiritual accomplishments.

>>18773523
>By any moral standard
Missed the point completely. What we call spirituality ends where moral standards begin.

>>18774260
>What we call spirituality ends where moral standards begin.
Elaborate

>>18773523
Also, DEFINE "GOOD THINGS" AND "BAD THINGS" IN AN IRREFUTABLE OBJECTIVE MANNER.

>>18773491
>>>/x/

>>18774263
Spirituality is experiential. If you access to "higher" spiritual dimensions you do not need moral standards to tell you what to do. You know what to do. Moral standards are set in stone and defined. They ignore complexity, exception, variation, fluctuation, chaos (dare I say beauty) in the system. Everything has to act according to the standard. Moreover, moral standards change historically and geographically. They derive from their surrounding environment. They have objective no basis at their core, they are subjective. They adapt differently according to a nation, a religion, a profession, a technology. Moral standards are most often used as a tool to exert political power, that is a fact. As for spirituality, there are hundreds of ways to get there. Methods used to attain to the highest vary. It is a technology. It does not submit to a moral standard.

>>18774302
*no objective basis

>>18774302
I agree

>>18773744
If its an illusion, then the illusion is real, and causing badness. Me convincing myself that this was real was not a benevolent act. If I willingly put myself into this position, and can’t go back now, then my powers are limited. If I didn’t have empathy to begin with, then my powers are limited. Im not arguing that this world isnt a dream. Im arguing that even if it is, it doesn’t change my judgement of it. Of course as you have said, our judgements are mere illusory labels, but if that is so, please stop claiming benevolence

>>18774532
I didn't claim anything, I said I can prove it. Something can never be more than the sum of its ingredients. You cant use pancake mix and get brownies. The only reason you experience anything or feel anything is because it comes from God first. This is kindergarten logic

>>18774532
https://ugetube.com/watch/maha-sadashivoham-the-quickening_NTNYNFOgRtMleT4.html

/ end of discussion

There are none. There are no serious, fundamental critiques of Gnostic cosmology, only refinements and additions of the core motif.

>>18774267
>Also, DEFINE "GOOD THINGS" AND "BAD THINGS" IN AN IRREFUTABLE OBJECTIVE MANNER.
What is Evil is precisely the fact that we can equivocate about the good and the evil, what is Evil is the Mixture where somebody's good is someone else's evil. Why don't you peabrains get this? Why can't you make such a simplistic leap of intuition?

>>18774817
>still uses microbrain terms like good and evil to describe creation and destruction and calls other people pea brain

>>18774817
name something evil, in your opinion

>>18774804
Is that why nobody is a gnostic anymore except schizoprenics on 4chan?

>>18774837
Gnosticism was the best they could come up with at a time when the west and east were seperated and the Gnostics only had access tot he gay jew shit. Gnosticism is like taking the parts off a rolls royce (sanatana dharma) and making a pinto out of it. Gnostics think they have such big brains because they have a tiny retard tier version of santana dharma

>>18774837
There's a genuine gnostic micro-revival happening right now, led by minds that see farther than most.

>>18774836
Predation.

>>18774832
>spends years spamming the same dogshit gotchas instead of just reading a book
For example, I bet you're one of those shitwits that thinks Gnostics hated matter, but don't know that while the Manichaeans considered the substance of the universe evil, its form was divine - the architects of reality are divine spirits, not archons. Even the most basic summary of Manichaean faith is enough to refute half your meme opinions. So excuse me if I get a little frustrated

>>18774850
poo larpers like you make me wretch. everybody likes to claim gnosticism is just a bastardized offshoot of THEIR 4chan dopamine cult of the week, but never demonstrate the slightest nuance in their thinking when they attack it

>>18774861
>Predation
>Evil
Animals are evil?

>>18774850
>Gnostics think they have such big brains because they have a tiny retard tier version of santana dharma
Ok, I kek'd

>>18774861
>using basic bitch tier obvious descriptions
Bud you barely even understand it, I spent this entire thread explaining what the shit really means and where it really comes from. All you know are memes, I told you what this shit really means so dont try and get uppity mate.

>>18774870
No, they are executors of cosmic evil, but I suppose if you asked a Manichaean, yes, animals are in a sense evil because their substance is evil - their bodies are literally dried demon ejaculate.

>>18774861
>There's a genuine gnostic micro-revival happening right now, led by minds that see farther than most.
Holy fucking shit imagine seriously thinking this. The level of delusion.
Spurdo demiurge memes and threads about how you want to fuck Sophia do not constitute a "gnostic revival". The only gnostic of the 20th century who saw farther than most was Jung. Everyone who came afterwards was a retard

>>18774866
Yah but as I told your buddy above you earlier. All of you fools talk a lot of shit about what you think and what you believe but I am the only here that can prove it so wrench on this nice street terd fresh out the oven

>>18774879
No you didn't, I'm not impressed by any post in this thread, I tower over you cucks because none of you read. Nigger I know you googled the Manichaean Form/Substance distinction, don't front.

>>18774837
>Is that why nobody is a gnostic anymore except schizoprenics on 4chan?
Objectively wrong. Gnosticism is the official state religion of USA and Western Europe.

Everything, and I mean EVERYTHING your governments do is predicated on Gnostic theology.

>>18774895
Explain, I know Freemasons are crypto-gnostics is that what you mean?

>>18774887
Lol does your knowledge of 20th c. gnosticism tap out at Jung bro? And you're the one telling me I don't know which way the wind is blowing? Try Laruelle, PKD, Sloterdijk, Baudrillard. I fucking hate it when brainlets like you think what you know is the absolute horizon of what everyone else knows. And he thinks I'm talking about spurdo memes lmao. All you know and understand are appearances.

>>18774888
Yeah yeah lotta talk from the fag who was reading montalk just a year ago and now he thinks he's a siddhu. Cringe.

>>18774866
take a seat bud, you are just a babby
https://odysee.com/Hermetic-Syncretism:2f4694be4a48b341da0686c30409d184b189c759?src=embed

>>18774895
No it isn't, stop muddying the waters you fucking brainlet, Americans don't know their cosmological ass from their elbow, we all read Voegelin tough guy.

>>18774897
They aren't, jesus christ dude... why would gnostics venerate the Demiurge architect of reality? Jesus christ...

Can anyone explain to me how you can be a gnostic when nondualism exists? Ever since I've learned about nondualism, something clicked inside me and nothing else makes as much sense. I don't get you people and your complicated dualistic worldviews.

>>18774890
Of course you aren't becuaes you are a pleb and I might as well be speaking latin to you. We barely even speak the same language. I can only express very simple ideas and concepts to you that you can process and even then it is like you are watching a movie and skipping 30 frames for every frame you understand. Come back in a decade kiddo once you process what I have taught you here, if you ever do

>>18774902
>basic bitch pseudbro syncretism
This is a gnosticism thread brainlet, why are you sending me a video on Ficino lmao?

http://www.sofiatopia.org/maat/ten_keys.htm

Even my links on hermeticism brainmog you. Poor showing.

>>18774899
>Laruelle, PKD, Sloterdijk, Baudrillard
Useful idiots, pseuds and spooks. Nice lineup, midwit. lmao
>appearances
Gnosticism is a religion of appearances. It's predicated on a shallow understanding of reality based on appearances and a lack of insight. Ironically, gnostics are the biggest "hylics".

>>18774909
>nothing to say
ite dude I accept your concession.

>>18774897
Every single political talking point - "civil rights", sexual liberation, separation of church and state, "gay pride", trannies, television, porn, video games, so-called "atheism", etc., etc., etc., only makes sense in a Gnostic theological framework.

Gnostic theology so absolutely prevalent in the Western world that most people don't even realize they're living in it; like fish in water, they have never known anything else in their whole lives.

This is all the more mind-boggling because Gnostic theology, is, frankly, totally batshit insane and illogical.

I.e., the notion that there is a "self" living inside "you" - that they're separate things and someone can be "born in the wrong body" - is so ridiculous on the surface that any of our ancient ancestors would have laughed at you if you tried to explain it to them. And yet this is the default position today; most can't even imagine life any other way.

>>18774913
>nuh-uh
>actually this tradition based on experiential knowledge of divine realities is ACTUALLY a religion of appearances bro, trust me
Nice one dude, really macking those macademias.

>>18774895
No they weren't. They may not have been full yogis but the founding fathers were way more advanced than gnostics they were schooled in Egyptian mysteries which are 100 times more advacned than negro tier gnostics. The Egyptian mysteries were still practically hindu before it got jewed by the jews like everything else they touch and turn to shit.

>>18774910
>This is a gnosticism thread
It's an anti-gnosticism thread and OP specifically requested literature against it. You're like christcucks invading threads about other religions to preach their shit.

>>18774921
No it doesn't, Gnostics reject the material and temporal/worldly reform, even the most basic book in the field (Hans Jonas' masterpiece) is EXPLICIT about this.

You are a brainlet. You are a faggot. You are a stupid shitbrain fucking cunt.

>>18774927
Once again it proves gnosticism's detractors are infinitely less subtle than its defenders. Every time. How could this be?

>>18774930
You are absolutely seething kek
Go cut off your cock, gnostranny
>>18774922
>I-is this an animal getting eaten? AAAAAAAAAAA I'M GOING INSANE SAVE ME BARBELO

>>18774935
You won't find a single shred of scholarly or textual evidence for transgenderism in gnosticism. All you have are memes.

>>18774930
>No it doesn't, Gnostics reject the material and temporal/worldly reform
"No it doesn't" what, brainlet?

Also, every Western government explicitly rejects material reform too. (Look at China if you want an example of a country that doesn't.) What's your point?

>>18774934
No it just proves you're an obnoxious faggot who feels the need to shitpost in a thread where he explicitly isn't welcome

>>18774910
>this level of retarded
>brainmog
https://getyarn.io/yarn-clip/2a9ee644-5619-4c17-9680-6a3b8623df1a

>>18773491
Is anyone going to actually answer OP's request or is this going to be another larp thread that'll hit bump limit because the gnostic kiddies can't stand anyone disagreeing with them?

>>18774941
No, Gnosticism has nothing to do with transgenderism or the belief in social, political, or sexual reform. They are not interested in the world. Why would an acosmic dualism lobby congress for trans rights? Think carefully before you answer.

>>18774942
Let's see what you guys have come up with so far, shall we

>basic bitch voegelin
>basic bitch jung
>gnosticism is akshually [poo flavor of the month]
>uhh hermetic... syncretic... uh... trannies bro

Nice, scintillating.

>>18773491

Against the Heresies by Iraneus has a Christian refutation of Gnosticism. It even has one of the most wholesome quotes that I have taken to heart: "The Glory of God is Human being made fully alive"

>>18774934
I practically wrote a book in this thread explaining all this from start to finish. Of course a nigger tier brainlet like you posts a couple kiddie tier one liners and insults and declares yourself victor of the special olympics. Why do you make it so easy?

>>18774964
>please PLEASE suck my dick for my sophomoric takedowns of a tradition I do not understand and refuse to inform myself about... PLEASE

Either link the posts, summarize your contentions with Gnosticism, or shut the fuck up.

>>18774949
try reading the thread before sperging like a retard. There is nothing left to explain to him. Flew completely over his head so he prefers to just argue with people more on his level now instead of doing the great work. Many such cases here. Sad!

>>18774962
>>18774970
Why do you feel the need to attention whore in a thread that rejects your ideology? Why not make your own thread?

>>18774970
wrap my ass cheeks around your face and suck a hot wet fart out

Taking advantage of this thread to ask gnostics here (or non-gnostic well informed people) if there is any text, any gnostic sect that saw the evil in the world but knew they had to accept that evil, as if evil was a necessary rite of passage, purification, of the spirit?

>>18774976
Is everything attention whoring and normie grandstanding with you shitwits? I'm here for quality control.

>>18774972
>there's just nothing left to explain... we're too smart for him... many such cases.......
Oh god just give it a rest dude, you're not that impressive

>>18774990
>quality control.
What the fuck does that even mean? You're not recommending anything and just shilling your dead religion

>>18774984
No, there is no "accepting" of evil in gnostic tradition, the point is escape, escape, escape. If anything must be TOLERATED, not accepted, it the Mixture only so far as the final victory of the Light is eventually guaranteed.

You might like Origen, he saw the body as an instrument for liberation, not an obstacle. Or in other words, the body itself is a "net" or oikoumene that God uses to fish for the souls that have wandered away from Him.

>>18774990
bitch I put on a fucking clinic for your stupid ass in this thread and you wasted my time with kiddia babble. You dont even know what quality is, you are a child and a pleb

>>18774972
Shut the fuck up you schizo brainlet, your ramblings are worthless ripoffs of pop science and entry level sacred geometry, there's nothing of value there and nobody gives a shit about your unhinged takes.

>>18774992
I already alluded to Hans Jonas' Gnostic Religion which is a highly respected work in the field, and mentioned Laruelle, PKD, Sloterdijk, and Baudrillard as examples of thinkers with who are explicitly or implicitly gnostic in temperament.

>>18775013
Did you miss the part where this thread was about works that refute gnosticism and not works that affirm it? You're like that guenon faggot who shits up every thread on Buddhism with shit nobody asked for

>>18775010
>REEEEEEEEE
hahahaha looks at this nigger sperging the fuck out. I never even mentioned sacred geometry you fucking donkey, take your meds and take a nappie babby boy

>>18775008
yeah sure another early 20 something american faggot waving his dick around cause he read the kybalion once. please.

>>18774954
>Why would an acosmic dualism lobby congress for trans rights?
To release the suffering soul that's trapped inside the meat robot. Denying the reality of sex is one way of doing that.

What a fucking shitshow. Abandon thread, I'll just make another better formulated one later this week.

>>18775015
It's almost as if.......... properly refuting a tradition you disagree with........ requires..... actually......... understanding it...... at a high level.

>>18775017
I am 44 years old zoom tard. I was teaching this shit before you were even a squirt in your daddy's balls

>>18775021
>It's almost as if
Gnostards are redditors, who could've guessed

>>18775018
Oh okay senpai, I didn't know modern trans rights had a conception of the Pleroma, clearly your knowledge of gnosticism outranks mine and you're not just grafting your baby bitch American politics onto a tradition you can't understand outside the coordinates of BBC, jews, and trannies.

>>18775019
Sorry I actually told you to read books in a literature board you fucking monkey

>>18775028
>Sorry I actually told you to read books
>"hey what are books that go against gnosticism?"
>here op, read those gnostic authors
Retard

>>18775026
Oh no. A redditism. Oh no. Appearances. Aaaaah. No. Aaaaah.


zzzzzz

>>18775022
americans lack the intuition to understand anything outside their judaic programming no matter what age.

>>18775006
What do you make of a nietzschean critique of ressentment in gnostics? This kind of makes much more sense with them than with christians.

>>18775032
Lol you got the canon of anti-gnostic writings: Plotinus and the heresiologists. There are no published books trying to "takedown" gnosticism as a whole, only clarifying and tweaking its definitions. The material you're looking for doesn't exist.

>>18775028
>Oh okay senpai, I didn't know modern trans rights had a conception of the Pleroma
Yeah, evidently. There's a shitload of things you don't know.

>>18775043
>The material you're looking for doesn't exist
Why?

>>18775040
The fundamental gnostic difference, or gnostic turn is: in the world, but not of it.

Nietzsche is a high priest of the World, of vril. Nietzsche wants more-life, Gnostics want the other-than life. It takes more balls to live in the world as if you didn't actually live in it, than to submit wholeheartedly to its energetics.

Gnostics reject Nietzsche's immanentism, is the short answer to that question.

>>18774904
I'm still struggling to choose between the two. Nondualism feels more right but gnosticism has a pernicious "on the off chance they're right, I'm fucked" quality to it.

>>18775038
that's rich coming from an Abrahamic YHWH cuck. Do you even think about the babble that spews out of your face?

>>18775046
Because I have a library of gnostic books and have found not a single comprehensive takedown of Gnosticism as a whole, like I said. You get clarifications and deflations and equivocations (like Petremont who thinks Gnosticism is nothing without Christianity, or Couliano who thinks trying to trace influences and lineages is pointless, Gnostic dualism is an invariant of human cognition) but never "here, I'm gonna totally btfo gnosticism bros, get ready lmao" because people writing at a high level are not concerned with petty shit like that.

>>18775044
I was being sarcastic. There's no economy of transcendence in modern trans ideology, except as the horizontal or "immanent" transcendence of throwing off the shackles of biology. You are severely misinformed.

>>18775066
>gnostics worship YHWH
>anime poster

lol the absolute state. embarrassing.

>>18775017
>guy mentions sacred cosmology in his post
>this retard says sacred geometry
>continues on in the thread acting like he isn't a retard when everyone knows he is

>>18775067
>people writing at a high level are not concerned with petty shit like that.
Why though? The possibility of the world being a prison maintained by evil entities seems serious enough that you'd want to dedicate some time to it.

>>18775067
>There's no economy of transcendence in modern trans ideology
Yes there is; it's exactly the same one as the Gnostic one. (Even if framed in different terminology; but then again playing with words is characteristically Gnostic. It's not a coincidence that all of modern "art" is the self-same game of symbols. All art today is Gnostic art.)

>>18775074
anime is about your speed ass sniffer. You watch evangelion and thought it made you a master qabbalist

>>18775079
Of course, and they do dedicate time to it, but not in trying to dunk on it like a bunch of insecure redditors. I've read papers that argued Descartes' own work was a reaction to precisely the gnostic possibility of the human mind being the prisoner of a transcendental demon, and that Descartes' "epistemologization" of the cogito (which is just the pneuma for dummies) was him being unable to cope with the ONTOLOGICAL ramifications of such a being.

>>18775055
>it takes more balls to live in the world as if you didn’t actually live in it
This makes no sense and the opposite would be the case. I mean, this was the whole point of everything Nietzsche wrote, lol.
This internalized ressentment is the breach and void in which gnostics live and aspire to, separating themselves from the world.

>>18775086
There is no Pleroma in trans ideology. There are no Aeons, there is no pantheistic light-soul, there is no salvator salvandus, there is no Mixture, there is no cosmocrator, there is no Christ or Redeemer-Figure, as a trans ideology there isn't even a Sophia. You have no idea what you are talking about. You are the one equivocating so you can lump in an acosmic, anti-material system with... a bunch of faggots chopping their cocks off? Why aren't you more focused on the anti-genealogical/anti-biological motifs of Christian universalism? Oh, but I already know the answer to that question.

>>18773491
>>18775019
Lmao, hilarious thread, thanks OP

>>18775094
>trying to dunk on it
Just presenting viable alternatives that appear more sensible would be enough though. Are you saying that us being imprisoned here is the most likely metaphysical truth? This is suicide fuel

>>18775105
>le resentment
You are a slave to the world that's why you can only interpret its rejection as originating in cosmic butthurt. And yes it makes perfect sense. You live in the world, but you are not of it. Stop larping like you know if you can't even make such simple intuitive leaps.

>>18775117
No, because once again, your image of Gnosticism is literally meme-derived, there is a gnosticism of the plunge (kathodological gnosticism, Adorno and his type, world-hating, Identity is a trap, etc.) and there is the Gnosticism of the return (euphoric, joyous, liberating). Gnosticism is distinguished from basic bitch existentialism and nihilism precisely in the fact that they claim knowledge of an extra-cosmic condition.

>>18775121
>>18775105
you are both wannabe le brooding edgy 90's goth kids getting ya popcorn eyeliner and butt plugs ready for x-files night

>>18775141
Did you just call me an emo? Fuckin' X-files lmao? Huh? Are you a time traveler?

>>18775111
>There is no Pleroma in trans ideology. There are no Aeons, there is no pantheistic light-soul, there is no salvator salvandus, there is no Mixture, there is no cosmocrator, there is no Christ or Redeemer-Figure, as a trans ideology there isn't even a Sophia.
You're playing word games again.
If you think this bead game is the essence of Gnosticism, then you're sorely mistaken. The smoke and mirrors is a trap for hylics, and done so specifically to entrap them.

> You are the one equivocating so you can lump in an acosmic, anti-material system with... a bunch of faggots chopping their cocks off?
Yes, because one is done in the service of the other.

> Christian universalism
No such thing; "Christian universalism" isn't Christian.

>>18775135
Where do I learn about these alternative gnosticisms?
For me gnosticism is
>the world is maintained by an evil demiurge and his archons
>the world is a prison and we come back against our will
>the benevolent god is not omnipotent so there is no guarantee of being saved
>salvation incorporates a heavy amount of luck because the world is unfair
>evil has inherent existence and dualism is true
This is what I'd like arguments against. I'm interested in knowing more about these alternative and hopeful forms of gnosticism you're talking about but my gripe is with what I described.

>>18775158
>uh actually the nag hammadi was written to entrap estrogenized young american men and get them to chop their cocks off bro, trust me
Lmao, you're retarded.

>>18775162
What I'm telling you is you'll only get the refined, sophisticated Gnosticism from people who are refined and sophisticated Gnostics.

Start with Sloterdijk's After God, third chapter of the book is a very lucid exposition of the tradition from the angle I was just talking about. I guarantee you will get a better understanding from that than a thousand christcucks trying to dunk on it on youtube.

>>18775191
>the refined, sophisticated Gnosticism
Which has nothing to do with what I greentexted above?

>>18775215
Christ like I'm pulling fucking teeth. Sloterdijk responds and elaborates on both kinds of Gnosticism, which will then give you a better idea of what they're talking about and therefore a better idea of how to refute them.

General critiques of dualism will not suffice because you're looking for a specific critique of a specific worldview. If this isn't doing it for you, just read Augustine and jerk yourself off.

>>18775135
>the Gnosticism of the return (euphoric, joyous, liberating).
>extra-cosmic condition
That just sounds like western hinduism, seeing through maya and so on

>>18775121
You are the slave to the world. Your whole life is in a determined and necessary opposition to it you cannot even see how it depends on it. This is the fundamental character of ressentment, more obvious in the modern age.

>>18775237
Yes, the World has the status of a transcendental illusion in some Gnostic systems, but the difference here is that ignorance is a positive counter-force, not the mere absence of illumination.

>>18775249
>you have to think within the limits that have been set for me or... or.... I'm gonna...... reeeeeeeeeeEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE
basic bitch nietzsche pseudbro tripe. yawn.

>>18773663
One of the things I love about Hinduism and Lords Shiva and Krishna and the Goddess Devi is that they are joyous. There is room in Hinduism for happiness, and sweetness, and innocence. There is the idea that man isn't meant to submit to God but to become as radiant and united with Him. Other religions seem so morose, overly focused on sin, suffering, and repentance. Hinduism has genuinely given me such sweetness and joy and asked nothing in return. There's no compulsion to do anything or to feel guilty, you just do what feels right.

>>18773491

Why would you need a convincing argument against something that is unfalsifiable and baseless? It is impossible to prove the existence of any god, including a demiurge. Do you also need convincing arguments against the existence of gnomes and hobgoblins? No. Just move on.

>>18775263
I’m not even a nietzschean. I’m a gnostic. And you can’t even realise you are the one thinkong within limits when you simply cannot comprehend, literally, and sublate Evil into the Spirit.

>>18775191
>uh actually the nag hammadi was written to entrap estrogenized young american men and get them to chop their cocks off bro, trust me
Are you literate?
Two points:
a) The Nag Hammadi wasn't written to entrap. But having hylics like you be drawn to "refined" and "sophisticated" verbiage like flies to sticky paper was one of the goals. It's a filter, and you got filtered.
b) Chopping off your cock isn't a trap. It's a good thing according to Gnosticism. Sex is one of the strongest things that traps your soul in this realm.

>>18775273
uhh bro where's your proof for a talking snake with a lion's head? b-btfo

all literalists must hang

>>18775289
>[cock chopping] is a good thing according to Gnosticism.
Lol. This is the last reply you'll get from me.

>>18775288
>uhh dude trying to escape the world feeds you back to it
Never thought of this before. Read pic related you git, stop trying to mog me.

>>18775304
You are not escaping anything. You are just reaffirming the emptiness of Will. The last thing you are is pneumatic. You are much closer to Nietzsche than you think.

>>18775270
This what le edgy brooding jewdified gnostitards will never understand or get. They are massochists. They arent looking for the truth, they are looking for some edgy massochistic jewdified shit to fit a square peg into a round hole. w/e they get infinite spawns to figure this shit out, you cant show them anything they dont want to see

>>18775236
>General critiques of dualism will not suffice
Is it true that valentinianism has nondual interpretations?
As another anon pointed out, the worldview, when divorced from dualism, becomes very similar to Hinduism or hermeticism

>>18775339
>But while the Gnosticism of late antiquity, by means of a grand narrative to answer the questions “who we were, and what we have become, where we were or where we were placed, whither we hasten, from what we are redeemed, what birth is and what rebirth,” trusted itself to develop interpretations of the fall into misfortune and ascetic practices for returning home to euphoria, modern Paragnosticism is content to invoke ever anew the gloom of the world scene, while views of lost and hoped-for happiness are only allowed to be painted in black.

Shut the fuck up you fucking brainlet you don't know what you're talking about

>>18775252
>ignorance is a positive counter-force, not the mere absence of illumination.
Does this warrant the allegation of a completely different worldview? Even in Buddhism, ignorance can become a counterforce in the personification of Mara

>>18775357
>Shut the fuck up you fucking brainlet

>>18775353
Only insofar as the recognition of Truth dissolves Error retroactively.

The Light is non-dual, the World is dualistic - because it is Mixed. The Unmixed Light would be non-dual, yes.

>>18775270
Where do I start with Hinduism? I read Easwaran's translation of the Gita and got the same feeling as you're describing but I'm still not entirely convinced of the truth of Hinduism as a whole.

>>18775360
Yes, if ignorance possesses a malign agency, it does.

>>18775357
Why bother with this complicated shit? Om Tat Sat bro

>>18775386
what word mean? no understand word.

>>18775390
>simplicity bad
Gnostics everyone. Anything to feel special

>>18775390
>r/IAmVerySmart
go back wityht eh rest of the le edgy emo reditors you spastic faggot. If you were half as smart as you think you are you wouldnt be a broke incel little archon bitch

In my years here iv only found one gnostic who was polite in thier discussion. Most of them seem to be quite bitter people

>>18775368
>the World is dualistic - because it is Mixed.
But that is an illusion. Recognizing the illusion of duality is the goal. In essence it's the same as in Theravada
>>18775381
>if ignorance possesses a malign agency
What is the justification for this claim? And yes, it does also possess its own agency in other systems as I mentioned Mara, but that alone does not make the goal different nor does it subtract from the efforts of the individual who wishes to be liberated

>>18775395
>you're writing above a 4th grade reading level to feel special bro
Lmao

>>18774924
Which book is that please?

>>18775412
No, it is not an illusion, the illusion possesses a reality adequate to it precisely so long as we misrecognize it as being anything other than illusion.

>>18775419
>the illusion possesses a reality adequate to it precisely so long as we misrecognize it as being anything other than illusion.
That's the definition of an illusion. It only has substance insofar as it is unrecognized.

>>18775415
https://esotericawakening.com/trail-of-the-serpent-stoddard-christina-m

>>18775422
For which human beings act as appendages. The human body is a sustainer and protector of the ontological illusion

Forget about all this metaphysics shit, this >>18773770 is the real problem

>>18775452
Still no rebuke to this I see
Also check out the tricked by the light website

>>18775373
I say this completely unironically but you should listen to music by Kula Shaker. Why would listening to English rock music about Hinduism do anything? Because knowing Ishvara is supposed to be fun, sweet, and uplifting a cool happy soulful rock music is just that. Also look into different schools of thought in Hinduism and see what clicks for you. There is no one way to worship that fits all, so just find what makes you happy

>>18775270
>man isn't meant to submit to God but to become as radiant and united with Him.
Isn't moksha the drop returning to the ocean though

>>18775613
Yes, but the nature of the droplet is identical to that of the ocean. All the glory, radiance, and joy of the endless ocean is the droplet's and vice-versa

>>18775643
annihilationist drivel. Gnosticism rejects the flowing of the river into the ocean.

>>18775643
I don't really get it
Do we dissolve in God, or do we exist alongside God?

>>18775270
>subordinating theology to a fucking pleasure principle of all things

The ABSOLUTE state!

>>18775678
>dude stop listening to these gnostic losers lol, just listen to some hindu dad rock bro
The absolute state indeed.

>>18775643
The ocean is clearly bigger lol

>>18775678
He's right though, self-flagellating isn't spirituality

>>18775697
There's not much difference between Hinduism and Gnosticism, fundamentally.

>>18775712
Their fundamentally is, Gnostics don't worship Krishna the World-Eater.

>>18775655
There is no annihilation, the Gita states you have always existed and always will

>>18775720
This feels like a juvenile rebellious phase honestly. The only difference is that Gnostics can't seem to deal with "evil" while Hindus acknowledge it but dismiss it as ultimately illusory in the face of ultimate reality. I don't understand the gnostic fixation on evil.

>>18775766
Yes, as the impersonal ocean of the Godhead, with which "you" are destined to be reunited with like a river flowing into the ocean. Gnostics oppose this.

>>18775772
Because you are an idiot child who can't understand why Gnostics would want to absolve this Ultimate Reality of responsibility for Evil, or for that which is misrecognized as Evil.

>>18773491
>SERIOUS AND CONVINCING ARGUMENTS
>???
DONT NEED THEM

IF THE WORLD WERE REALLY A PRISON THEN YOU COULD ESCAPE IT BY KILLING YOURSELF

>>18775678
>>18775697
>just hate yourself and reality
>just beat yourself up for being a sinner
>just track sin like a fat woman tracking calories
>just obsess about suffering and death
Maybe you shouldn't take things so seriously. There's nothing wrong with enjoying yourself. Why not acknowledge the beauty of the world along with the suffering? It's not all horrible

>>18775785
Gnostics always being so aggressive and bitter is really telling, honestly. The other guy was right, you're just masochists. There is nothing to absolve, you are like a kid throwing a tantrum

>>18775800
Except that is a move already accounted for by the wardens. Try again.

>>18775800
based. checked

>>18775806
>bunch of gay caricatures of shit he doesn't understand
You don't have the slightest clue what Gnosticism is, brainlet. Don't @ me again.

>>18775807
We hate passionately because we love passionately, we're not tepid little cucks like you. Muh masochism, just stop thinking so hard broo like take a hit of this bong lmao. I must infantilize you because I have no arguments AAAAA

Fuck off.

>>18775806
We have evidence of Gnostic systems like the Valentinians and Manichaeans who did acknowledge and appreciate the beauty of the world you utter trog. Why not acknowledge you're talking out of your ass?

>>18775800
/thread

>>18775806
Based.
>>18775831
Jesus Christ you are absolutely seething in rage, calm the fuck down you tard. You're proving me right, you have the mentality of the child. Love doesn't imply hate, this is so puerile and misguided. Love only begets itself. Your obsession with evil and suffering is rotting your brain.

>>18775860
Nah fuck you, you pussy little nerd. We need blood and fire, not upboats and reddit gold. Especially when cucks like you try to speak authoritatively on a topic you do NOT understand. Case in point: the faggot above me who thinks Gnosticism is preoccupied with Original Sin lmao. Read a goddamn book, jesus christ.

>>18775806
>maybe you shouldn't

THIS is how you argue?

>>18775866
>We need blood and fire
Ok sheltered manchild lmao

>>18775452
>>18775553
What's up with this being shilled so hard lately? What is so special about this prison planet stuff that you can't just dismiss it like you would dismiss any other baseless claim by some random schizo?

>>18775871
Fuck you socialized insects and your kumbaya circles. Submit to the world order because you're afraid the truth will make you unfuckable. Pussy.

>>18775883
So this is the power of gnosis...

>>18775807
>>18775860
That is just the most pernicious kind of ressentment. It boils and is the only thing moving these people. They are nothing but spiteful, they hate everything, literally everything. The only case they can assimilate with other people, join other people, is in hate, it is only through hate that they can agree.

>>18775886
>sir this is a wendy's XD
Umm sweetie if you want to talk about the cosmic darkness and umimaginable suffering I'm gonna need you to tone it down a notch ok...

>>18775883
>happiness bad
Gnostics are so fucking pathetic holy shit.

>>18775891
LE HATE LE HATE YOU HATE YOU CAN'T HATE YOU MUST BE INDOCTRINATED INTO MY PUSSY DEMIURGE COMPLIANT M*NISM OR BE OSTRACIZED AS AN ANGRY PERSON

lol

>>18775898
Never said a fucking THING about rejecting happiness, joy, euphoria, beauty, purity, goodness, in fact I even posted passages distinguishing Gnosticism from mutt nihilism.

>>18775899
Yeah you definitely sound spiritually accomplished

>>18773491
I'm not convinced the Earth / Universe is a prison, but I am also not convinced the Old Testament "God" is the New Testament God.

I feel as if Saturn and the Sphere of Saturn is a Matrix that lowers our consciousness and keeps us stuck in the material world and the cycle of reincarnation.

I sort of came to this conclusion myself but I would say the works of Miguel Serrano dive into this abit. Although he holds Pagan views he seems to believe in a "Demiurge". He refers to him as "The Warden Of The Concentration Camp Universe".

>>18773924
I believe you bro but got any links?

>>18775907
>people who reject the world tout court aren't very nice >:(
lol

>>18775831
>>18775841
Don't Gnostics see the world as a prison created by an evil demiurge? I honestly have no problem with Gnostics, given the horrors of the world viewing it as a prison is right for some. Who am I to say? I haven't lived your life, maybe you've seen things that are simply irreconcilable with your conception of a loving God. That's fine, I get that. There should be different paths for different people. What I oppose is you shutting down streams of thought which don't view reality as a prison. Streams of thought which try to make sense of the world without writing it off as inherently evil. Streams of thought which see a more positive idea of reality. I don't think it's childish or shallow to pursue spiritual paths that intertwine with what makes you happy. You probably don't agree with me and that's okay. Regardless I hope you find what brings you fulfillment and something in this world that makes it all worth it

>>18775911
Based Serrano reader, finally a nigga with some sense.

I highly recommend Nimrod de Rosario's Gnostic Fragments afterwards. They were in the same stream.

>>18775899
Nondualism is a fact of existence

>>18775867
I'm not even arguing for anything. I don't have any arguements. My entire view of the world is based on feelings. What's wrong with that? Overly intellectual views are sterile.

>>18775915
I have nothing against mature monistic metaphysics, everything I've seen in this thread is based off /pol/ hearsay and /x/-tier infographics.

I've never rejected a loving God, I reject the identification of the True God with the Creator of this world.

>>18775933
Well can you tell me more about how you view the world? I think maybe, even if our views aren't entirely in sync, I could still learn something. You are a Gnostic, yes? Why did you gravitate toward Gnosticism?

>>18775921
I'm reading "The Serpent Of Paradise" right now. He writes of his years in India and his search for a secret Ashram in the Himalayas, said to be connected to the Inner Earth. Put It down for a few days but I got time off today and tomorrow so I'm gonna try to finish it.

>>18775933
>I reject the identification of the True God with the Creator of this world.
Which implies the true God is not omnipotent. Which is ridiculous

>>18775914
The problem is not with rejecting the world, but what you express. You can only express desperation, pettiness, narrowness of mind and spirit, a crude affected sentimentalism. You are not nice because you are ignoble, but yeah, spitting on and laughing at you makes it valuable.

>>18775914
>sometimes I get owie so the world is evil >:(
lol

>>18775947
I simply do not see this world as a reflection of a True God's will, and "free will" is a pathetically myopic/anthropocentric answer to the problem of evil. Anyone with eyes in their head will tell you the causes of evil are cosmic and precede man. They inhere in his substance, evil is not principally a moral or ethical failure.

Christ, people tear each other to pieces for what? Because they gotta eat, right? Man is personally responsible for his metabolism? Give me a break.

>>18775961
The world being fallen does not imply the demiurge is evil. This is basic shit, have you never read Plotinus?

>>18775959
>sometimes i get blowie so world is good <:)

>>18775953
Gnostics reject the identity of power and goodness, they are not phased by this argument. The burden of proof is on you to convince me why an omnipotent God needs evil "for" anything.

>>18775956
I don't give a fuck what you think. You have a feminine brain.

>>18775810

>>18775678
Well obviously I'm not promoting hedonism. By "do what makes you happy" I don't literally mean do what you derive most pleasure from. I mean find a school of thought is most in tune with your understanding of the world. If that school of thought has things you disagree with don't force yourself to follow its stances blindly or acquiesce to some dogma. You should try to find a spiritual path that aligns with your understanding of the world. That's what I mean, I should have phrased it more clearly. Simply being a weed smoking dude bro is NOT what I'm advocating for. I just do feel that Western spirituality is overly morose and that following paths that constantly make one self-flagellate will lead to spiritual ruin aren't conducive to a good life

>>18775965
>dude dude DUDE, have you ever read Plotinus?
>ite champ, lemme just style on you rq ;)
Stop it. Just stop it. Fuck.

>>18775950
Make sure to read Nos - The Book of Resurrections.

>>18775979
>The burden of proof is on you
No it's not. You're the one who's obsessed with evil and suffering and has to invent a convoluted and nonsensical metaphysics to deal with it. Everything emanates from a single substance is simple and makes sense. Your obsession with suffering is anthropocentric anyway
>>18775987
Not an argument, retard. You got blown the fuck out more than a millennium ago and yet you're still whining. When will you learn?

>>18775914
>reject the world tout court
you used the same cringe phrase in the omelas thread and got btfod and stopped responding. why bother if you have no argument?

>>18776021
Kek, there is nothing more convoluted than the cope pretzels Abrahamics twist themselves into to account for how this single substance also emanates evil or the potential for evil, because everything I say has to be loaded with qualifications or your algorithm will freeze.

Yes, indeed, if your God is an omnipotent God of Love, the burden of proof is on you to explain why he would allow Evil for anything.

You cannot have an all-powerful God and also believe in the utility of Evil/suffering/the Fall. As for the rest of your post,

>occam's razor

Cretin.

This guy is fucking unhinged. This is what dualism does to your brain, same with that poor dude who larps as a Zoroastrian. Imagine being this angry and scared all the time, flipping out every time your shoddy beliefs are challenged, vomiting vitriol whenever anyone suggests that constantly fixating your mind on evil, pain and hate isn't a good way to go about spiritual growth.
>>18776032
kek got a link?

>>18775929

Peak man of the world material: the mind as pathetic as a dying junkie's body.

>>18776050
>you're angry because you're insecure about your beliefs!!!!

Lmao, brainlet cope.

>>18776032
Oh yeah, I got demolished by such arguments as "nuh-uh" and "no it do not be like that"

>>18776055
>says the literal husk of a man whose entire spirit is devoted to pure seething hatred towards the world
Watching you wriggle and squirm is painful, honestly.

>>18776062
>still caricaturizing what he does not understand
Go listen to some more Hindu dad rock faggot

>>18776049
Not an Abrahamist.
Evil doesn't exist. Put down Serrano and the Icke videos, read Plotinus and the Vedas.
>Cretin
Splendid argument, my eternally seething friend.

>>18776050
>whenever anyone suggests that constantly fixating your mind on evil, pain and hate isn't a good way to go about spiritual growth.
No it's precisely the ONLY way to go about it.

>just like read the Upanishads in a cat sweater while drinking tea :)))))))
lol fuck off

>>18776073
>Evil doesn't exist
Yeah splendid argument indeed. I read Plotinus years ago. Next time recommend a work I won't find on a zoomer meme chart you fucking ape

>>18776062

"Wriggle" because of...? You don't even defend the, admittedly almost indefensible, shit you say.

>>18776058
>>18776065
>>18776074
>>18776083
Absolutely zero arguments or interesting points, only a tidal wave of pure anger, pettiness and bitterness.
I was sincerely conflicted about gnosticism; you have cleared all my doubts. Thank you, and I'm not saying this ironically.

>>18776091
>conveniently doesn't quote the posts with arguments and clarifications of gnostic doctrine
Who gives a fuck, good riddance. I'm glad you got filtered before you were able to shit up this tradition with your mutt psychology

>>18776055
When I say feelings I don't mean I am driven simply by my desires. I mean that I take the emotional feeling I've had in my spiritual experiences as the basis for my understanding of the world.

>>18776065
What's your problem with dad rock? It's really fucking good

>>18776098
>doesn't quote the posts with arguments and clarifications
I would if there were any.
I'm not American. For your own good, please let this shit go, you're killing your soul

>>18776108
pussy m*nism only gets shilled because it complies with the neoliberal status quo. I despise spiritual sedatives and I despise cucks that pathologize anyone who doesn't toe the reddit line

>>18776127
>I am a gnostic because I am a contrarian
This just keeps getting better.

>>18776118
I don't give a fuck what you think, faggot.

>>18776135
In my years on this shithole I don't think I've ever talked to anyone as filled with impotent rage as you.

>>18776127
But monism is true and the new agers are unironically right when they say your soul chooses to suffer when it incarnates. Of course this filters 99% of people.

>>18775953
>Which implies the true God is not omnipotent. Which is ridiculous
Why is it ridiculous? Why must there be some rule of creation that says that a creator should be omnipotent? Like in Christianity, why can't God simply not have full control over the universe, and that's why evil happens?

>>18773770
Guys this video is scaring me

>>18776146
How else should I say it? I don't give a fuck what brainlets like you think about me. Everything is a performance, I wear and discard masks as I please.

>>18776154
>the new agers are unironically right
Lmao.

>>18776162
>Lmao
Expected you to avoid making an argument but this is weak
And you call others brainlets? You're the midwit here (and an edgelord to boot)

>>18776101

Thank God that this thread is over.

>>18776154
Dualism filtered you it seems

>>18776155
How can there be no omnipotent principle? Eventually it all goes back to an almighty One from which everything emanates. Things cannot start as a duality

>>18776171
Dude you think the world is a school. Your understanding of reality is barely more evolved than some coed dorm's pump & dump. You don't even deserve the time I'm taking to fill out this captcha.

>>18776184
More like new age filtered you, which is extremely worrying in what it implies regarding your intellectual capabilities
>>18776187
Still no argument, just insults. When faced with something you cannot answer, you resort to more hatred. You'll come around

>>18776185
Why not? Why do we assume there are certain rules when talking about the concept of creation? What indication is there that the universe could only come about from a being that has absolute control of all its aspects? Why have that bias as a standpoint? Unless you believe in a specific religion that teaches you otherwise, of course

>>18776192
>uhh bro algae at the bottom of the sea incarnated here to learn how to be a good goy
lol

you don't deserve anything from me

>>18776127
I understand, your feelings are completely valid. If someone told me to just cheer-up when I've seen the suffering of the world and hand my views shaped by it, I'd be pissed too. I'm not advocating for that at all. I'm not advocating mindless positivity. Religion can tint the way people see the world. Colors are brighter, richer, the darkness is ignored. I just worry that perhaps some of the people in this thread have gone the opposite direction. The can only see the world through dark tinted lenses. Maybe that's valid, I don't have the life experience to say. But it just seems so corrosive

>muh dualism
>muh monism
>muh -ism
Literally who the fuck cares, just meditate you thin-wristed faggots, you'll get out of here all the same.

>>18776208
I love life, I hate those who normalize/obfuscate/conceal its exploitation and destruction. No, hating demons does not make me one. It makes me based. It makes me an angel.

>>18776206
Who says human souls can incarnate as flora? Misrepresenting my point isn't an argument either. Just because something hurts your feelings doesn't mean it can't be true.

I fucking hate these ressentful narrow minded gnosticists, I hate these crypto pagan intellectualists who deny evil, denying life itself, making it sterile. I hate you nihilists.

>>18776202
Where does the non-omnipotent being come from? If creation cannot be controlled by anyone, what makes it take its specific form and what stops it from immediately degenerating into a formless chaos? What shapes it and directs it?

>>18776218
>YOUR FEELINGS ARE HURT YOU'RE INSECURE YOU'RE JUST SCARED YOU'RE JUST EDGY YOU'RE JUST
shut the fuck up already

>>18776220
whatever faggot, you had a good day at the gym now you totes know what nietzsche meant by amor fati, right? fuck off.

>>18776220
If you deny both the denial of evil and gnosticism, what are you?
>>18776217
You've been shitting on everyone ITT but haven't said anything about how to get out of this realm. How is gnosis/liberation achieved and why?

>>18776241
Too late to ask me now, thread's about to die. You'll also notice I answer the questions of people who level with me.

>>18776236
Holy fucking shit the level of seethe is off the charts, I don't even have an appropriate adjective. How do you not have heart issues you absolute madman

>>18776249
Because I'm fucking based, that's why.

>>18776246
Come on, we're on page 2, don't be like that. I just want to get the fuck out. Will I still be recycled into the pain matrix if I follow the meditative practices of a non-gnostic religion like Tantra or whatever?

>>18776250
So cringe you looped around to based. I am in awe. Still think gnosticism is pussy bullshit but your honesty is refreshing

>>18776227
>If creation cannot be controlled by anyone, what makes it take its specific form and what stops it from immediately degenerating into a formless chaos? What shapes it and directs it?
What rule states that you'd need an omni-potent being for a universe to stay together? My point is that the argument is based on the presupposition that creation or God is subject to certain rules, but why assume that's so? Why assume that God has complete control over everything. What stops creation from functioning like a dream, where God is ultimately the source, but he isn't a 100% in control of all that occurs? The content of your post is exactly what I'm pondering on. Why do we assume that creation MUST function a certain way (save for believing a specific religion that has a definite explanation)

>>18776257
The idea is to give yourself over entirely to the acosmic supergod of the negative who stands outside the pain matrix, not to be quenched by nothingness, not to submit to him in fear, but to know and launch yourself towards a non-being that is other-than-being.

Basically, meditation is good, but gnosis is key. Don't fall for the trap of thinking you will be spontaneously liberated if you sit an x amount of minutes. Direct knowledge of what the world is in its ultimate nature is what unbinds the illusion. That is why the Gnostics were told to recite the secret names of the planetary guardians as they ascended up the spiral escape chute at the moment of death.

>>18776264
>What stops creation from functioning like a dream
What stops God from becoming lucid, or waking up?
I mean you're right ultimately the rules of existence are opaque to us, but this doesn't imply gnosticism is true.

>>18776275
>give yourself over entirely to the acosmic supergod of the negative
This part is filtering me hard. When you talk about being beyond existence and non existence, you make it sound like nirvana in Buddhism.
>Direct knowledge of what the world is in its ultimate nature
Then all I need to do is to fully realize that the material world is merely illusory and imperfect so as to detach myself fully from it?
The gnostic scriptures about ascending thanks to secret knowledge is similar to the Tibetan book of the dead. The secret names were lost though weren't they?

>>18776280
>What stops God from becoming lucid, or waking up?
Nothing
>I mean you're right ultimately the rules of existence are opaque to us, but this doesn't imply gnosticism is true.
Yeah, true, and I'm not actually advocating for a truth one way or the other. I just jumped into the discussion because your post made me think about it

>>18776300
>Nothing
Then why doesn't he?
>I'm not actually advocating for a truth one way or the other.
I think deep down we fully agree with each other but I'm just not satisfied with a worldview that consists in saying "it is impossible to know and let's leave it at that". Do you have no metaphysical beliefs? I struggle to find mine but I don't want to stick with this skepticism.

I honestly don't understand what we're arguing about in this thread anymore. What the fuck is happening right now?

>>18776298
I'm talking about the inner star, brother, that which in man surveys the sorry condition of the cosmos and rejects it on the basis of a good that is necessarily hypercosmic. Do Job's lamentations prove an ethical standard higher than Jehovah's? Not necessarily, but I'd rather go down scratching than submit.

Where did this Love come from? I don't know. What is it for man to be the "voided" or denatured animal? I cannot say for sure, but for the Gnostics, it meant he had his home somewhere else (or for the Marcionites, man is an utterly pitiful and debased son of the world, but still worthy of the True God's mercy in the form of Christ)

You don't recognize it as illusion in a sterile, discursive way. You gotta realize it in your bones man, that's why these traditions were far more hands-on than the pro-cosmic doctrines which feed man's nature as an ontological stranger back into the world through the Universals of Church, State, God, etc.

>>18776298
And the parallels between this and the Tibetan Book of the Dead are sound, Filoramo agrees with you in his History on Gnosticism. The method and mechanism appears identical.

ADVAITA FAGS ON SUICIDE WATCH

BASED GNOSTICS WIN AGAIN

>>18776316
>the inner star
Which books will teach me about this? The only gnostic book I've read was the Gospel of Thomas. And Valis but it hardly counts.
I want to know why things are how they are, why is man in this existence in which he doesn't belong? Where does the spark or inner star return to, how is it realized? How does this state "beyond existence" not imply annihilation like the easterners strive towards? This is all too mysterious.
>Christ
Do you believe in that kind of soteriology?
>You gotta realize it in your bones
Since the secret names are lost, where do we go to find concrete praxis on how to attain that realization? Should I deduce from >>18776326 that Tibetan practices for example are helpful?

>>18776316
>Do Job's lamentations prove an ethical standard higher than Jehovah's?

>thread gets interesting past bump limit
Many such cases

>>18776192
Filtered by dualism. Did the algae incarnate here to learn how to be good too, fag?

>>18776351
>which books

I got that from Jung's 7 Sermons of the Dead. Yes. I know. Jung. But that is a very good start. As far as the rest, check out "I Hurt, Therefore I Am" on academia.edu. It'll put I was just saying in a more philosophical perspective.

The inner spark does not "return" to anything, I personally reject the womb-lust of the Pleroma. All I can say it is isn't a drop merging with the ocean, but an ocean being condensed into a drop.

Yes those practices are helpful. Don't think of them as objective secret names, I like to think of it this way: my every 'organ', or my every compulsion or mode of illusion which ties me to this earth, has a secret "name" or way of totalizing and understanding it that dissolves its power over me.

These threads are interesting but nobody ever brings up the obvious which is the data collected from near death experiences

>>18776352
Good, then we are in agreement then.

>>18776309
>Then why doesn't he?
I think you misunderstand. I'm not saying that creation is a God's dream, or that he can or cannot wake up. I'm just ruminating on why it is some people seem to think God would have to be omni-potent for him to create the universe. That the act of creation would be bound by some ethereal rule
>but I'm just not satisfied with a worldview that consists in saying "it is impossible to know and let's leave it at that
And I'm not saying you should believe one way or the other. My questions might not actually have anything to do with you specifically, just that your post gave me an opening to start a conversation
>Do you have no metaphysical beliefs?
I am undecided, really. I have no specific belief, but I'm not willing to exclude that "something" is going on beyond what we traditionally call the mundane. I don't believe in any specific thing, but I'm willing to accept that there is something more going on. I'm just not sure what that is
>I struggle to find mine but I don't want to stick with this skepticism.
I agree that you shouldn't. As part of my point, in my view, there is no rule that says that creation cannot be more magical than what it might appear. No rule that says we are plain biology that live and then die, and that's it. All sorts of shit could be going on behind the curtain

>>18776368
>I got that from Jung's 7 Sermons of the Dead.
All of it? Alright, I'll read the red book then, but my exposure to Jung is limited to man and his symbols so I'm scared of getting filtered.
>The inner spark does not "return" to anything
>an ocean being condensed into a drop.
Isn't that akin to the spark creating its own mode of existence, becoming its own God? Is it even describable in cataphatic terms?
>my every compulsion or mode of illusion which ties me to this earth, has a secret "name"
I get it. Have you figured those "names" out though? What is your personal praxis?
Do you think any love for anything worldly will result in failure?

>>18776396
No, no, not the Red Book. This: http://gnosis.org/library/7Sermons.htm

You can read it in half an hour.

Jung is simply not a touchstone for me anymore, but I still come back to this.

Don't get neurotic about the world. Use it as an instrument, an occasion or material to build your "rocket." We dissolve the world's illusion by means of the world, after all.

And yes, I would say the spark does create its own mode of existence, very astute. Filoramo writes that the pleroma is the inner reality of light that IS the practitioner, not any objective space the gnostic must navigate to.

>>18776408
Thank you.
>Jung is simply not a touchstone for me anymore
Who did you move on to?
>We dissolve the world's illusion by means of the world, after all.
This is what I was about to say. If the end goal is for the spark to create its own reality, that reality has to be inspired by an external source, it's not self-generated. This might be unrelated but for example I had "beliefs on existence" that condensed into a specific inner reality when I was younger, but that reality was always at least partially the result of my interpretation of the reality around me, it didn't stand on its own as separate from existence entirely, although I did have the distinct impression that it transcended it in a romantic manner. Maybe praxis then is the affirmation of that inner existence although it's not really a part of any meditative tradition. But whatever. I guess I'll read Filoramo too.

>>18776451
You're touching on some points of contention in deep gnostic theory. I honestly don't really feel like elaborating on them right now, but 7 Sermons of the Dead and Jacques Lacarriere's The Gnostics are short and sweet and available online. They should suffice for now.

I'd save Filoramo for last. He is a good cooldown author. Hans Jonas' The Gnostic Religion should be your centerpiece right now. Anyways, Marcion was not a classic gnostic but he did acknowledge that man is exhausted by the world without remainder, while naturally, classic gnostics like the Sethians would say there is a remainder, there has to be a remainder, and that remainder is the pneuma.

I moved on to these authors, currently I am reading Laruelle who formalizes a lot of these problems at an extremely high theoretical level. I truly believes he succeeds in reconciling these two views, but that's a story for another day.

Yes, praxis is indeed a kind of weaponization of your inner reality against the dominant, monocausal reality of the World. So you are onto something. You are urged to imagine yourself as the hero of your own story of salvation. You write it, it is not written for you.

You see what happens when people ask and engage with a topic with an open mind? I'm calm and helpful.

>>18776478
Thanks for the recommendations, I'm interested in "deep theory" too insofar as it directly helps with liberation and isn't simply expositions of metaphysical disagreements between sects.
>exhausted by the world without remainder
Isn't this another way to say annihilation, complete obliteration? Marcion believed in complete erasure?
>You are urged to imagine yourself as the hero of your own story of salvation.
Falling into delusion and fruitless fantasy seems like a big risk here.
>engage with a topic with an open mind
Speaking of, do you usually participate in these threads?

>>18776535
No, Marcion believed that the nature of the world thoroughly exhausted the nature of man: man is of the world, he is the son of the demiurge, he has no relation to the True God (where in classic gnosticism he retains a spark or pneumatic atom of the True God), the True God deigns to reveal himself to man purely out of grace.

There is no risk of delusion. Wakefulness is your rudder, gnosis is your north star.

I usually participate in them.

>>18776549
>the True God deigns to reveal himself to man purely out of grace.
For man to be capable to yearn for the True God, wouldn't he have to possess a part of him?
>There is no risk of delusion. Wakefulness is your rudder, gnosis is your north star.
I just hope I'll figure it out before I die.

>>18776478
>weaponization of your inner reality
>You are urged to imagine yourself as the hero of your own story of salvation.
Isn't this equivalent to escapism, or do you mean it in a more abstract sense?

>>18775831
What is there to love? Why would a gnostic follow the golden rule?

>>18776386
>I am undecided, really. I have no specific belief,
Doesn't that bother you

>>18776351
>Tibetan practices
Some of the highest practices in the yogas of Naropa are dream and sleep yoga, the belief being that by being able to recognize the dream state as illusory, one will be able to recognize the death state as well, and act accordingly in order to escape samsara. This probably applies quite well to gnostic cosmology too.

>>18776601
Please respond

>>18776677
Not as such. For now I don't need to "know". I'm fine with just being at the moment. I won't try to force it, so I will simply observe for now

>>18776963
There is the possibility that not doing anything in this life will result in failure/a bad outcome in the next, whatever that entails

>>18776967
I'm not going to do nothing. I simply do not have belief in any one religion or spiritual way of thinking. I cannot force myself to believe something. In my teenage years I was fully atheist. Now I am undecided. Who knows what I'll be in 10 years, if I'm still here. I'll live best as I can, and see what happens. Are you following a certain belief, anon?

>>18777021
But if you have no specific religion or spirituality, how can you practice anything or work towards anything?
I think your mentality makes sense but I feel the need to choose something, to keep seeking at least, I feel spiritually restless.
>Are you following a certain belief, anon?
No, I'm confused and don't know what to believe, to be honest. The more I seek, the less sure I become.

>>18776019
Of course. One of my favorite Books ever. Do you have any exeprinces with the Hamsa Shunya chakra or the Green Ray?

>>18777057
>But if you have no specific religion or spirituality, how can you practice anything or work towards anything?
By living by what I feel is right. Instinct, I suppose
>but I feel the need to choose something, to keep seeking at least, I feel spiritually restless.
I get that, anon
>No, I'm confused and don't know what to believe, to be honest. The more I seek, the less sure I become.
Maybe it will become clear in time. Hell, you might not even have to find anything outside yourself. Say you feel like life should be lived in virtue. Not because of any texts, but simply because you feel that it is right, and that the world is better for it, or some such. Then does it really matter what you call it? If some benevolent force was watching in that scenario, would it really care what name you gave it?

>>18777082
Are you never scared that you might be missing out on something, some important information or whatever, despite living virtuously and according to your instincts? Do you never ask yourself "what if I'm wrong"?

>>18777113
>Are you never scared that you might be missing out on something, some important information or whatever, despite living virtuously and according to your instincts?
I'm more afraid of getting locked into something which turns out to be a hollow thing. I can only believe in what I see and feel. When I do good, I feel good about it. When I find myself being ignorant, or unduly angry, or lacking regret or introspection, then I feel comfort when I catch and and then work on those thoughts. When I walk through a quiet, warm forest I feel immense peace.


Of course I ask myself if I'm wrong. If my perspective is warped. If I try to do good out of a sense of obligation to some unknown force instead of genuine caring. But what else can I do? How can I be sure that living as a virtuous Christian is the right answer? And if it isn't, then is it really worse to simply be virtuous with no specific frame to hold onto?


But I don't know, anon. All I know is that if creation has some sort of spiritual benevolence in it, then it would not punish you for being benevolent. It might not even punish you for not being. Besides which, would you really care to please something, which has inserted you into a world where dozens upon dozens of wrong spiritual paths could be taken, and that would then punish you for picking the wrong one?
Sometimes it's enough to just speak as if something is listening to you. You don't need to give it a name. It it is listening, then it's all the same. Put faith in your own thoughts, anon

>>18777192
>getting locked into something which turns out to be a hollow thing.
I can relate to that as well. It's a stressful dilemma.
But overall you're right, in the end all the mystical experiences, the philosophies and metaphysical models might be compelling but none can really, truly be confirmed, and so you're left with trying to do simply good and doing your best.
Although, if the Gnostics are right and the benevolent aspect of creation is subdued or suppressed, then benevolence is no guarantee of anything.
I'll try to be more faithful to myself, acquire a better sense of security. It's very hard, though, as my temperament drives me towards seeking absolute certainty. I appreciate your perspective though.

>>18777299
I hope you find what you're searching for. Good luck, anon

>>18777314
Thank you, to you as well.

>>18775678
man you people are retarded, they jewed you real nice

>>18775912
above mate, third post I think

>>18775961
What you do when you are hungry, whether you "tear someone apart" or sit under a bodhi tree drinking nothing but pea juice for 6 years like the Buddha, is what the test is kiddo to see if you get to move to higher lokas where these avatars dont matter, dont exist. In the higher realms you dont need to power your avatar like you do in this lower dimension. You are right, it is a prison for you idiots because you will never figure out how to get out of here because you are stupid and have too much ego

>>18777473
Even if you pass the test you'll still have participated in the evil of the world

>>18777513
Kobayashi Maru, congratulations now you get it. Welcome to the kali yuga