/lit/ - Literature

A Clockwork Orange

>>18762715
Scott Turow's best book. If I told you the title, that would spoil it for you.

>>18762715
Peace by Gene Wolfe

I find it funny that Chris Watts has become a Christian and believes that it's God's plan that he will someday get out of prison. He said this in a leaked phone call from prison. What a delusional narcissist, which explains why he thought he would be able to get away with murdering his family in the first place

>>18762878
What gives you the authority to judge him? You don't know what the fuck he's been through so how the fuck do you know he won't achieve redemption through christ and be reunited with his family in the afterlife. Everyone is capable of turning themselves around.

>>18762715
i think crime and punishment but i didnt read it

>>18762921
>t. Chris Watts

>>18762715
People around here seem to like Kissinger’s books

>>18762921
Are you aware of the details of his case? He strangled his wife (who he was cheating on) to death hours after having sex with her one last time. He then drove his two young children out to a remote area for 30 mins, with their mother's body in the trunk. When he reaching the site, he strangled his first child to death with the other one watching. He then strangled the second child, despite its protests. He dumped their bodies in old oil tankers and then went to work and pretended nothing happened. The guy was a delusional impulsive narcissist who believed he could get away with anything and was willing to do anything to live his dream life. He then had the audacity to claim that he has photos of his dead wife and children on his cell wall and he reads the Bible to them every night.... oh please

That Elliot Rogers suicide note
And don’t forget O.J. Simpson’s If I Did It. Classic denial

>>18762960
>christcucks will defend this

>>18762960
Irrespective of the magnitude of the crime. If you believe another human being cannot attain redemption then you are no better than them.

>>18762715
How light we talking?
The Murder of Roger Ackroyd (Agatha Christie)
The Day of the Jackal (Frederick Forsythe)
plenty of short stories, e.g.
The Imp of the Perverse (Edgar Allen Poe)
Lamb to the Slaughter (Roald Dahl)

I see your thread on /r9k/ didn't take off so you decided to shit up /lit/ instead.

>>18762990
He isn't a human being deserving of pity. He is a monster who deserves his three life sentences in prison. Oh and he also was convicted of wrongful termination of an unborn since his wife was pregnant at the time, and so was given an extra number of years on top of the three life sentences.

Christcucks think that everyone thinks like them and has a conscience. There are people out there whose brains don't work that way. For Watts, his conversion to Christianity is not about God or repentance, it's about helping him cope with spending the rest of his life in a concrete box. It's only about him, because he is an extreme narcissist

>>18762996
You know, that first one is a spoiler considering OP's question.

>>18763042
Well said my friend.
Some people don't deserve redemption.

Spoiler: Blood Meridian

>>18763042
>He isn't a human being deserving of pity. He is a monster who deserves his three life sentences in prison
You are as sick as you think he is If you think he deserves suffering for the rest of his life because of a transient, momentary mistake in judgment. You think human beings should be damned eternally for sins they committed in the past? Then to me you are as evil and wicked as the worst of them. A human being has the potential for redemption up until the moment of death and can only be judged by God alone at the gates.

Every human being and I mean EVERY SINGLE ONE can follow the right path. You have no knowledge of how brains "work" and you have no moral right to condemn people who have the capacity to choose the spiritual path to redemption.

I am 41 years old and have experienced far more than you have, (I'm assuming you're a bitter teenager in their mother's basement) so I know of the human capacity of repentance and reorientation in the lessons of Christ, something you will no likely have no knowledge of and dismiss. I have seen the worst of criminals and the most vulgar of sinners be humbled in the lessons of the Lord and follow what would be considered a noble and Just path after committing heinous acts. I understand that there is a spiritual authority which reaches out and lifts up the most wretched of humans. These things I have seen with my own eyes.

>>18763169
>I am 41 years old and have experienced far more than you have

I hate old people who think like this. I don't even care about this argument, but what a moronic perspective.

>>18763191
moronic how? I am older than you therefore have more authority. Are you retarded?

>>18763169
>it's okay to murder 4 people if you say sorry
It's not just the people he murdered who suffer, his wife's family are still alive and suffering to this day that she is gone. Also, you haven't given me an actual reason why I can't judge people if I so please, you have only stated that you dislike it

>>18763191
He's right though. You can be an Ivy leaguer, but someone who's older than you has more experience, a better life perspective.
Respect your elders dumbfuck.

>>18762921
>>18762878
Theoretically not impossible, although the hurdles to overcome are realistically to great for someone like him. Just asking to be redeemed and thinking its important is not enough, he must honestly and earnestly regret his action for themselves. It is very hard to imagine, even from a Christian's charitable point-of-view, how a person who committed this could possibly honestly regret it and not immediately kill himself, thus necessarily isolating himself from God and his family afterwards.

>>18763239
>Also, you haven't given me an actual reason why I can't judge people if I so please, you have only stated that you dislike it
It's simple. You are not God. You are not all-knowing and therefore your intellectual capacity and ability to judge other humans in deficient by definition.

>>18763169
Also, it wasn't a "transient, momentary mistake in judgement". He planned the murder, and we have evidence of this. He made sure that no one would be at the site where he dumped the bodies. He contacted a coworker who was going to be working out there on the day and offered to take over his shift days before the murder, we have the texts of this. He also had a 30 minute drive with his children, still alive, to the site where he could think over whether killing his two children was a good idea.

>>18763274
Doesn't change a thing. He is still capable of redemption.

>>18763271
>You are not God.
We have a divine spark. God made us participate in his Logos, and judgement is a natural and intrinsic part of our psyche. That I am not all-knowing simply tempers the quality of my judgement, which does not mean it must be naturally inadequate.

>>18763300
Of course it changes things. The Mens Rea is half of the crime, and generally the part of it that determines its severity.

>>18763301
It is true that God made us participate in his Logos. Judgement is part of our psyche but it is limited by design. Therefore by default we should entertain the human capacity for redemption until each human is judged in the eyes of the Lord in the afterlife.

>>18763304
You are not God. Stop judging people's actions when you have no knowledge of their inner workings.

How stupid can you be?
Prisons are packed full of recidivist monsters who are all to willing to convert to Christianity/Islam if they think it will help them get out of jail sooner.

>>18763271
You aren't God either. You don't know that everyone can be redeemed. You don't even know that Chris Watts has a soul

>>18763322
>Therefore by default we should entertain the human capacity for redemption until each human is judged in the eyes of the Lord in the afterlife.
And we do. The ability to redeem is the Lord's alone, it does not prevent Eartly judgement or action. It does not essentially matters when the moment of death comes as long as it does not come during the very course of the commission of the mortal sin, as it is left to God to know the heart of the man He judges, and his knowledge being perfect, it shouldn't matter at what time during the lifetime it happens. God already knows if Chris can find redemption.
There are other good reasons in the Catechism to justify not murking Chriss for what he did, but it isn't because of the flaws of our judgement, or because we substitute our judgement to that of God, as there is a difference between divine and earthly judgement and justice. Rather it is because every act of killing another human, even justified ones, are contrary to the spirit of God's plan for us, and remove us further from His designs.

>>18763367
Yes I don't know if every human soul can be redeemed. Therefore by default I'll assume that's the case until they have been judged by God. Also every human being has a soul.

I am surprised that nobody has suggested Perfume yet.

>>18762941
A dude who signs off on the death of people on other continents just doesn't feel like a murderer. Sure, he might have murdered people, but the emotional/visceral component we expect in such cases isn't there.

>>18762715
Read "Devil In the White City" by Erik Larson. It covers the murder spree of H.H. Holmes in late 19th century Chicago in the backdrop of the World Fair.

>>18763380
>Rather it is because every act of killing another human, even justified ones, are contrary to the spirit of God's plan for us, and remove us further from His designs.
To suggest this seems to be arrogant. Everything that happens on God's Earth is God's plan since he alone has action and control over all future events. Therefore it would seem to follow that the murders of Chris Watt's would similarly be part of God's design and plan rather than contrary to it. What the meaning of these murders is, remains to be a mystery although I have no doubt that there is meaning to everything that happens in the world and God has a plan for Chris Watts whether it be redemption or damnation. What I am stating is that it is not within our power or capacity as human beings to condemn Watts for transgressing God's plan which we know nothing of or offending our man-made sensibilities which are deficient when compared to the judgement of the lord

Act of Passion - Georges Simenon

>>18763414
So we shouldn't punish criminals? Damn religious people are stupid

>>18763414

PART THREE
LIFE IN CHRIST

SECTION ONE
MAN'S VOCATION LIFE IN THE SPIRIT

CHAPTER ONE
THE DIGNITY OF THE HUMAN PERSON

ARTICLE 3
MAN'S FREEDOM

1730 God created man a rational being, conferring on him the dignity of a person who can initiate and control his own actions. "God willed that man should be 'left in the hand of his own counsel,' so that he might of his own accord seek his Creator and freely attain his full and blessed perfection by cleaving to him."26

Man is rational and therefore like God; he is created with free will and is master over his acts.27

I. FREEDOM AND RESPONSIBILITY

1731 Freedom is the power, rooted in reason and will, to act or not to act, to do this or that, and so to perform deliberate actions on one's own responsibility. By free will one shapes one's own life. Human freedom is a force for growth and maturity in truth and goodness; it attains its perfection when directed toward God, our beatitude.

1732 As long as freedom has not bound itself definitively to its ultimate good which is God, there is the possibility of choosing between good and evil, and thus of growing in perfection or of failing and sinning. This freedom characterizes properly human acts. It is the basis of praise or blame, merit or reproach.

1733 The more one does what is good, the freer one becomes. There is no true freedom except in the service of what is good and just. The choice to disobey and do evil is an abuse of freedom and leads to "the slavery of sin."28

1734 Freedom makes man responsible for his acts to the extent that they are voluntary. Progress in virtue, knowledge of the good, and ascesis enhance the mastery of the will over its acts.

1735 Imputability and responsibility for an action can be diminished or even nullified by ignorance, inadvertence, duress, fear, habit, inordinate attachments, and other psychological or social factors.

1736 Every act directly willed is imputable to its author:

Thus the Lord asked Eve after the sin in the garden: "What is this that you have done?"29 He asked Cain the same question.30 The prophet Nathan questioned David in the same way after he committed adultery with the wife of Uriah and had him murdered.31

An action can be indirectly voluntary when it results from negligence regarding something one should have known or done: for example, an accident arising from ignorance of traffic laws.

was it worth it?

>>18763473
No.
Just fuck your mistress, apologize or lie to your wife, and then confess to a priest, it isn't fucking hard mate.

>>18763473
There are hours of police interviews with her on youtube you can listen to. It's pretty clear that she had nothing to do with the murders. Watts lied to her throughout their entire relationship, he even told her that he was getting separated with his wife, which is why she says she got involved with him. She also gave the police access to all their text records. What's funny is that Watts only knew her for like two months or something before deciding to murder his family for her, he was really crazy.

>>18763222
>im older than you! respect me!!!
Watts is older than me, are you saying I should respect and treat a childkiller as an authority on life? Respect is earned, old man.

>>18763300
>doesn't change a thing
It completely invalidates the point you were fumbling to make.
I can't tell if you're more pathetic for coming to the defense of the indefensible, or myself for wasting energy trying to convince you otherwise. You're clearly a lost cause.

>>18763473
all that blood on his hands just for a pair of fake tits? christ he's a mess

>>18762921
You browse 4chan from the prison's library or something? That's cool man

>>18762878
Anything to cope

>>18763222
You're a retarded old faggot ignoramus who still believes in a god fairy and inherent morality which stems from god fairy tales. Dumb hic tier, not worth respecting or even talking to on any meaningful level.

>>18763169
>because of a transient, momentary mistake in judgmen
This has to be a troll. Ah yes the momentary mistake of murdering your entire family. ooopsies my hand slipped, accidently strangled my kids .. It's funny to me how Christians' commitment to compassion can drive them to defend something like this. A universal compassion leading to its own opposite...

>>18763473
Hell yeah it was, look at them titties.

>>18763169
goddamn, boomers are truly retarded

>>18762960
I would never hold something like murdering your wife against a man but murdering kids is a bridge too far.

>>18762960
Jesus fucking Christ.
Give me a switch and 5 seconds alone with the cunt.

>>18763169
>murderering pregnant wife and 2 children to be with your mistress
>momentary mistake

>>18763169
>>18763266
to be fair, he probably doesn't have a better life perspective if he's using 4chan at 41 years old

>>18762921
His wife and kids can't :/

>>18763266
Quiet old man

>>18762990
He can find redemption ... At the end of a rope.

T. Christian.

>>18762831
>>18762941 (lol)
>>18762967
>>18762996
These are all great

Someone on here recommended The Night Stalker by Philip Carlo. It's third person but really feels like the killer's pov.

>>18763100
You are more right than you realize, samefag. None of us deserve redemption. All have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God.

I personally am responsible for some truly terrible things, and if it were not for God's grace I would not have the strength to work toward redemption, because God will forgive me, but man will not (and probably should not).

Yes, we are saved by grace, not by works, but IMO that doesn't get you off the hook for doing whatever you can to atone for your sins. It just means don't expect forgiveness from anyone but God when you're finished.

>main character is retarded

>>18765058
Weston Chandler?

>>18765761
No. The pragmatic approach.

You can't fix psychopathy. And if he can't feel remorseful why keep him alive?

>>18763473
i would

>>18762715
The Satanic Bible i guess
Watts was and is a satanic devil who listens to heavy metal music and worships Satan

>>18763169
I am not sure if anyone would have agreed with your perspective a few centuries ago, when Christianity still had vigor.

>>18763169
You speak the truth. Christ redeems all who repent and turn to him. God bless you for speaking this truth.

>>18762715
autobio of serial killer Danny Rolling, it sucks but was still an interesting read

>>18762878
>What a delusional narcissist
Well, yeah. Watts very clearly suffers from Narcissistic Personality Disorder, as do a large number of murderers and especially serial killers.

if you can handle the dollar store dostoevsky... not particularly deep or anything but it's a fun read

>>18765249
>None of us deserve redemption.
Tripfags sure as shit don't. Filtered ; ^ )

>>18762715
>NOOOO YOU CANT JUST KILL YOUR OWN CHILDREN THAT YOU YOURSELF CREATED BECAUSE...YOU JUST CANT OK!

The Kreutzer Sonata, if you can get past Tolstoy's debilitating autism towards women.

>>18769232
Meaningless. He did not "suffer from" narcissistic personality disorder, he just was a narcissist.

>>18769456
As per the (true) French doctrine of property, ownership is defined as the reunion in a single entity of the powers of Usus (usage), Abusus (uses that modifies the nature), Fructus (Ownership of the fruit) and Destructus (destruction).
Nothing can be yours if you cannot destroy it. In fact, one could say that nothing is truly yours until you've used, abused, bred and destroyed it.

>>18769474
Fuck you're retarded. Why don't you do yourself a favor and catch up already? We've been able to square it down to biology. Fucking retard. Yes I'm mad.

>>18762921
What gives me the authority to judge a man who killed two young girls and his wife in cold blood? Pretty much everything honestly mate.

>>18763271
>It's simple. You are not God.
Exactly, which is why I can judge as much as I damn well please, because my judgement doesn't have existential impact in any way. It just, in small part, paves the societal way for him to be locked up in a box for the rest of his life so he can't replicate the harm again. God can deal with karmic judgement if there is any, and can also pardon him if Chris is repentant enough. It's not my job to absolve the guy. It's my job to be disgusted by him, which is an absolutely healthy reaction, and a reaction most in line with creating a healthy society.
This 'turn the other cheek' nonsense only applies if I intended to get revenge against him, which I don't. I simply believe he should (and has been) tried under the full extent of the law, painstakingly written and curated to be as fair and impartial as possible.

>>18763421
Cat in throes of passionate worship to be redeemed for his premeditated murder of rats and small birds

>>18769232
Everyone is a fucking narcissist. Some people are just dumb and not creative, or they have no foresight.

>>18763615
You should treat him as an authority on murder of family, that much is so. But you shouldn’t scream into the void over a Christians views when his world has proved those views to him, just cause your world hasn’t proved anything to you.

Cold blood by Truman capote

>>18763169
>>18769137
samefag trollfag
also how are you getting past the new captcha old man?

>>18762934
It's not from his point of view in a strict sense, but Rodya's psychological state is so well developed that it essentially is.

>>18769280
See you tomorrow