/lit/ - Literature

In particular I mean the title Simulacra and Simulation. Or is there something better?

>>18675029
What you understand to be 'real man' is not what the person you're trying to engage with understands as 'real man'

>wfw this will be your average “man” in twenty years.
/pol/ may have been right al along. And I mocked him when he came to me.

>>18675043
this is very true, but men have certain qualities that women cannot replicate, and vice versa. you cannot just get your boobs or penis removed. there are deep psychological things that determine who you are. its so funny when you know if your talking to a man or a woman on this site, just based upon how they communicate. you cannot change who you are

>>18675122
Well, you place value and importance in non-replicable factors that those you try and engage with don't concider as valuable and important to the constitution of their concept of 'real man'.

>>18675112
I do not get it? What is the problem?
Those are some nice boots btw.

>>18675112
Anon, that is a woman.

>>18675029
Imagine overpowering 'her' comical frame and tearing off 'her' ridiculous masculine clothing revealing the ill fitting flesh toned by chemicals and profane science which, as though meant to never be revealed, screams of contradiction in the light of your deed (alongside actual screaming) and you swatting away twig-like protestation then entering 'her' atrophying yet incontrovertible vagina, what sounds and thoughts would escape her body's temple of delusion, I can only imagine they would encompass an uncomplicated but profoundly brief feeling of relief, a moment like a person waking from a nightmare only to doze off again come the lapse of tension or surprise. You would rape her not because of sexual attraction (far from it) but as an ultimate affirmation of the logos itself and a infinitesemial but self shattering reordering of the cosmos towards order. God would smile down on you, but not look too long (for obvious reasons).

>>18675112
she doesn't look chinese or black to me

>>18675204
wtf

>>18675215
>wtf
femoid detected.
Show pussy now

>>18675122
women with extremely low digit ratios can often portray more traditionally masculine behaviour than men from when their infants, such as male like toy preferences.

I used to play world of warcraft with this dyke for years and I always thought she was a dude from the way she communicated.

>>18675204
based rapist

>>18675330
>extremely low digit ratios
whats that?

OP try this, but if it's too advanced for you then read Baudrillard and Deleuze to ground yourself in the fundamentals first.

I do not have to deal with any of this and I live in NYC. Just stop consoooming social media and news.
Also who gives a shit what the weirdos do with their body, how does it affect you?

>>18675204
This was oddly inspirational.

>>18675029
is that Ellen Page? my waifu, shame she's a lesbian

>>18675029
Riddle me this, if someone raped her, would she then admit she is a woman? I mean, how can you, as a man, tell the world you got penetrated in your vagina? So if you're a man with a vagina, why call yourself a man? There are short haired girls with small boobs and they still say they are woman, and have more balls and discipline than men and still say they have a woman's brain, there are also girls who dress like men and still say they are women, so what do you actually change about your identity by calling yourself a man? I feel like it counts just as much as if I called myself a tranny right now, it's just saying "no no I am woman" ok, so what? Nothing changed. Anyone can clear me up on how she thinks she is a man even if she has a vagina?

The singular of phenomena is phenomenon.

>>18675204
Insanely based.

>>18675598
Can you imagine a Freaky Friday situation where your mind and a woman's mind switched bodies? So now your mind is in a woman's body? I think that's pretty easy to conceptualize. What if you could never switch back? So your mind is now trapped in a woman's body, but you feel like a man. Would you just accept the fact that you have tits and a vagina now? Or would you want to present as the gender you have the experience of being? If you were vaginally raped, would you stop having the experience of being a man?

>>18676202
Tranny detected.

>>18676242
No. Does my post not make sense?

>>18675204
>I can now love Ellen Paige and be gay

feels like Christmas lads

>>18675204
Proof that self-honest mental instability is the gate to insight

>>18675029
How are these people so devoid of even an iota of self awareness?
>reeeee toxic masculinity bad, masculine bad
>I’m not really a girl I’m a boy
>engages in the same shit they were lamenting. Me ugg, me man, man build fire
The mental illness is astounding

100 years ago these people would be in an asylum. Today they're paraded around and going on television to talk about how good it is to cut your own tits off.

>>18675029
Someone ID those boots for me though

>>18676202
Except that doesn’t fucking happen.

I can ask you how it would feel to time travel or become a dragon, but it’s completely fucking irrelevant and has no legitimate correspondence with anything that exists in our reality.

Reading Baudrillard made the Wachowski brothers turn trans.

>>18676256
No. There is no such thing as body swapping. Trannies are mentally ill, and that's it.

Think of transgenderism like Phoenix. It's not natural to have so many people living in a desert. It's easier to have those golf courses some place else. Phoenix and all of its golf courses are destructive to the surrounding environment. Even Florida would be more sensible than Arizona. It is better to work with what you've got. If you have the body of a man, embrace your masculinity and be a man, and if you have the body of a woman, embrace your femininity and be a woman.

>>18676499
I'm pretty sure being disgusting jewish hollywood freaks did that. One is 'married' to a pro-dominatrix lol, gross.

One of these days when the collapse hits, and riots become completely uncontrollable and unstoppable, and the politicians retreat into a week-long hiding where the media just doesn’t report on it because it’s so in-the-face of everyone that even propaganda can’t spin it; I will go out with a t-shirt ninja wrapped around my head and hunt down urbanite FTMs like it’s fucking whack a mole with a ball peen hammer

>>18676202
I would just be a gay woman, who cares as long as I can have sex with women

>>18676541
The will may have been there, but their readings persuaded reason to give in.

>>18675029
She was so cute, though. She looked like the kind of girl you could sit and read books with and then talk about what you read.

>>18676533
Do you think homosexuality is mental illness? I'd probably have to be convinced of that before being convinced that transgenderism is mental illness. I don't understand why physical form necessarily must take precedence over experience, or why an individual should conform to one over the other. If someone has a mismatch between the gender they experience themselves as and their sex, why conform their experience to their physical traits rather than conform their physical traits to their experience? The two obviously need to cohere, but I just don't get why the physical must take precedence over the mental

>>18676758
>Do you think homosexuality is mental illness? I'd probably have to be convinced of that before being convinced that transgenderism is mental illness.

Why? Both are fundamentally different concepts. Homosexuality has to do with an inner state of attraction towards a member of the same sex; transgenderism is a statement that your "gender identity" is not that which was "assigned" to you.

> If someone has a mismatch between the gender they experience themselves as and their sex, why conform their experience to their physical traits rather than conform their physical traits to their experience? The two obviously need to cohere, but I just don't get why the physical must take precedence over the mental

Because the concept "gender you experience yourself as" makes absolutely no sense. It's incoherent. You walk up to a "cis woman" and ask her, "so you're a woman? Why?" and she'll answer: "Because I have breasts and a vagina", which is shorthand to say "because I have the physiological aspects of the female sex". Now you'll walk to a "trans woman" and ask the same thing and you will get absolutely no response at all. What is it to "experience being a woman"? Liking dresses? Being emotional? "Elliot" Page could be a "trans man" while looking just like >>18676606, yet she makes all effort of adopting elements of male appearance: clothing, short hair, removal of breasts.

Problem is that no "trans" person can point to an objective, concrete validator of their chosen gender that doesn't boil down to either physiology (hence the surgical and pharmaceutical interventions) or habits (clothing, approach to emotions, sports, wahtever), whereas every single "cis" person can.

There is no "physical taking precedence over the mental", because there is NO mental gender.

>>18676202
You've driven an automatic car all your life and then you buy a new one and find out it's got a manual gear shift. So what do you do ? But of course, rip the stick off and drive it using only the brake and gas pedal until you crash into a wall !

This is the kind of reasoning trannies and the people who support them attempt to justify

>>18676202
>>18676202
> If you were vaginally raped, would you stop having the experience of being a man?
Yes, your mental state is the result of two things, both your lived experience and your body's chemical composition but each informs the other. The moment you are in a woman's body your lived experience fundamentally changes, or rather its applicability alters, all of your prior lived experience as a man would be reappropriated under a new filter, and you simply could not understand it the same way you did before even without new or otherly experiences, it's like looking at the same 3D image from a different angle - the image hasn't changed but what you see has. What is more the longer you are in said body, which reacts differently to the same world from a different body from before, the more your lived experiences will line up with that of a woman's. But even experience withstanding everything you knew would be recolored in not just the female mindset due to say hormones, but by the feminine potential of your new reality, your softness, your weakness, your tighter fitting shirts. All of this would inform your understanding and said understanding would be concordant with the evolutionary pressures and realities of femininity. People have been proven to experience significant psychological changes just from wearing shoes that add height, everything from mood to competence is affected -- it's no exaggeration to suggest a total shift in physiology would be a total shift in psychology too.

In short, it's called the reflexive property anon. Being in a woman's body does make you a woman. Consequently not being in a woman's body, as you are not, forever precludes you from being a woman, which you will never be.

>>18675204
Put me in the screen cap.

>>18675204

>>18675122
Hardly. I've been posting here for +3 years and not a single anon implied I'm a female. Which I am.
I think the main difference between men and women is how much they value their safety and their lives. Even the most masculine woman I've ever met thought it twice before doing something fun but dangerous, when most men don't. They just do it. Probably an evolutionary psychology thing, as female lives are more importan than males for the overall survival of a specie.

>>18677430
exception proves the rule

>>18677430
obligatory YWNBAW

>now show me a woman wearing men's leather dress shoes
its shocking how gendered clothing tending to be

>>18675204
basado and rapepilled

>>18678085
You will never be a man

>>18678170
you will never have children
you will die alone and unwanted

>>18678189
She's younger than she says

>>18678196
the age of the creature is of no consequence
it is a degenerate homosexual who will live a crooked and twisted life until it dies alone and unwanted

>>18678189
>you will never have children
Oh good.

>>18678227
Based yurichad

>>18678227
you will never be an anime character
your wrinkles, your fat, and disgusting face will always remind you of that
keep painting it, you'll never be good enough

>>18678222
Deviant homosexual. Nothing degenerate about me. You seem the degenerate here.

>>18678271
like being a tripfag isn't being degenerate in its own right

>>18678271
Ah but you didn't deny being younger. Pay attention, everyone.

The woman wants it BAD :3

>>18675557
He's trans now, dude. Wtf

>>18678454
Did “he” break up with “his” girlfriend? Because she’s a lesbian and would not be caught dead with a male. Hmm?

>>18678465
He divorced his wife because she's a terf like you who didn't want him to transition

>>18678482
Butterfly isn't even a lesbian anymore. She doesn't have sex with women because of me. She thinks of my penis often :3

>>18678482
Really fucking tragic

The “e” in your slur stands for exclusionary. It’s exluding the term not the actual person.

>>18678500
See the post above yours

>>18678482
terfs are based so go fuck yourself

>>18678500
we've been over this before Butterfag, you are excluding those people from the category "woman"

>>18678522
No. The category of trans. There’s literally no such thing

>>18678529
Either you include Caitlyn Jenner in the category "woman" or you exclude them. we've been over this before so you don't need to answer, you exclude them

>>18675029
what?
people carrying firewood?

>>18677430
I'm thinking a "woman" (ymmv) typed this post

>>18678538
One more time.
Jenner is a female impersonator. Like RuPaul. There is no such thing as trans

>>18678500
>The “e” in your slur stands for exclusionary. It’s exluding the term not the actual person.
How cringe

>>18678519
Terfs are the cringiest level women have ever achieved

>>18678556
>It’s cringe to care about peoples wellbeing
*click*

>>18678547
at least what pictured here wears is dar more tasteful than lady gaga's meat dress or maga hats

>>18678500
EXCLUDING FROM WHAT? hello!? LMFAOFAF

>>18678570
what?
I'm lost
what is this thread about?

>>18678547
>>18678581
girls larping as boys and the increasing androgyny in the culture in general
jesus christ man learn to read context clues

>>18676816
>can point to an objective, concrete validator of their chosen gender that doesn't boil down to either physiology
Why does it need to correspond to something physiological?

>>18678588
what? OP just posted a picture of a dude carrying firewood in a hoodie

>>18678595
that thing has a vagina
you really have a problem with context clues don't you? are you on the spectrum?

>>18676202
I would merely accept myself as I am: a man in the body of a woman. Just as I accept myself right now for not being a stereotypical male; for being a mixture of feminine romanticism and manly responsibility, the kind of floating point in a spectrum I'm sure all men are to some capacity before this concept of "gender" was thoroughly caricatured and brought to its most absurd exponent.
Either way, there's really nothing else I could do and any attempts to reject this would border on shameful mental illness that I can hardly imagine wouldn't be accompanied by (rightful) generalized scorn.
Then I'd just enjoy it and fuck my buddies without being gay. I fucking hate women anyways.

>>18678611
I bet you're american

>>18678549
what about ftm

>>18678549
hence you exclude them from the category "woman", that's where the e comes from. I have already explained this to you, you don't need to act like a retard butters it doesn't make people sympathetic to your point.

>>18678620
most people on this website are and I'm obviously not ESL, it's not some big accomplishment to figure it out. Great job using context to arrive at a reasonable conclusion this time though

>>18675204
based

>>18678620
good job anon
you cracked the code and figured out that the only people retarded enough to not only be obsessed with this, but to even have this sort of moral decay in the first place are americans

>>18676816
>Problem is that no "trans" person can point to an objective, concrete validator of their chosen gender that doesn't boil down to either physiology (hence the surgical and pharmaceutical interventions) or habits (clothing, approach to emotions, sports, wahtever), whereas every single "cis" person can.
>There is no "physical taking precedence over the mental", because there is NO mental gender.
I mean isn't that the point? Always saw the gender deconstructionists as embracing the subjective nature of gender. Their point is that it's subjective so everyone is free to determine it as they please. And I could apply your line of reasoning regarding the non-objective nature of being trans gender to cis gender with ease. You say trans people boil their gender down to either physiology or habits, but in your own example the cis women's reply to the question "why are you a women?" is also physiological, "because I have breasts and a vagina". So what makes one different from the other?

I also don't understand your statement that there is no mental gender. If gender doesn't really exist, then on what basis can you oppose a trans person making up their gender according to their feelings?

>>18678626
The term is trans, or “trans woman” when they’re men. I’ve said it three times already. The term is what we exclude here. If some woman are upset or rude to the person, that’s on them.

>>18678715
Exclude what from what?

>>18678695
There's a biological determinism, always poignantly reminding you of your sex. We're always prisoners to our bodies.
I doubt anyone would argue with you if transitioning was a real science and it, in fact, worked. But what we're dealing with right now is in the realm of pure delusion.
There is no gender, there's only (You). And our world is a cruel mistress, one that gleefully rejects every attempt you may make of turning into a woman.
You can't simply ignore the more bodily and material reality of the matter and adapt only one part of the argument.

>>18678695
Gender is just a synonym for sex. The notion that these are separate ideas is a mentally ill 20th century contrivance.
>If gender doesn't really exist, then on what basis can you oppose a trans person making up their gender according to their feelings?
Because gender is the same concept as sex and you can't change sex.

>>18675204
Never take your meds anon

>>18678170
>>18678227
>>18678271
>>18678465
>>18678500
>>18678529
>>18678549
>>18678566
>>18678715

>>18675171
that's ellen page. she'll never be a man

mulan was a woman who dressed like a man, although as a means to a very explicit purpose and not as a label she chose to carry though the rest of her life. idk why everyone is worked up over the post image since the subject isn't actually wearing or doing anything actually vulgar.

>>18675204
Mein God

>>18675029
why do you want women to stay useless and retarded? the reason we hate them in the first place is because they are treated like children. there's no metaphysical dilemma here

>>18675029
why do you want women to stay useless and retarded? the reason we hate them in the first place is because they are narcissistic babies as a result of treating them like children. there's no metaphysical dilemma here

>>18678566
why do you care about trannies wellbeing?
just let them kill themselves theyre honestly disgusting

>>18678735
I think there's different categories. There's the stuff that's 100% biological but then there's a whole dimension inbetween biology and socialization where it becomes really hard to disentangle and tell how the two influence eachother. To be fair to feminists though many don't deny the reality of sex. It's just thst they're focused on the sociological dimension--how societal narratives, media, etc shape how we conceptualize sexual differences. As a result of that focus they tend to downplay any consideration of how biology affects behaviour.

>>18675029
It's a normalization of apathy, mental illness, and the peacocking of a dying society. There is nothing attractive about homosexuals or trannies and there never really was. They all have the same personality types, do the same ridiculous behavior, and engage in the same exact tone of voice, etc.

>>18675330
Yeah but she isn't a man and you understood that clearly at some point. They don't have "masculine behavior", they have a crude imitation of it. Dykes are quasi-religious in character and were some of the leading shock troopers in the nanny state we have now (and still are leading the charge for more censorship, repressive policies, etc.).

>>18675204
You are meant for greatness anon, you will be the philosopher king that will guide us through the dark night towards the bright tomorrow. I kneel.

>>18679107
Why is this a mystery to you?
They hate themselves, you hate them and wish them dead. Why wouldn’t I wish they all got well, your wretched ass too.

>>18676202
Your mind is your body. You are thinking like a child about consciousness.

>>18679221
silence whore

>>18678549
Your one based opinion, now I see why you post among us

>>18676202
the fact that you resort to an impossible hypothetical to try and prove a point about something impossible (being born in the wrong body) just shows that the whole thing is fucking retarded.

>>18679221
are you in the BTR discord server?

>>18678566
also why are you posting underages? you degenerate homosexual
please go away and never return here
everyone here hates you

>>18675029
i think judith butler is who you're thinking of. but note that elliot is doing the same thing many actual men do to perform their masculinity. being a man, after all, is something you do

>>18676202
bro if i got stuck in a woman's body tomorrow i'd be sitting on the board of a fortune 500 company within five years

>>18675029
According to /litpol/ this is how a 34 y.o. woman looks like.
You're a bunch of faggots lol.

>>18678549
based

>>18675377
I think he is referring to finger ratios

>>18678590
What else does it correspond to? When Ellen Page says "I'm a man", and she isn't talking about her physiology, what exactly is she talking about? What is the man-ness that she claims to possess?

>>18680440
Trust me, trannies would probably hate Socrates if they read him

>>18675204
based

>>18680440
Again why does it need to correspond to anything? You are begging the question.

>>18675204

>>18678547
That's not real wood. Everything about this picture is disingenuous.

>>18682202
>"I am X"
>"Ok, what is this X that you are?"
>...

There is no begging the question here. If you say you are something, then you must be able to give a definition of that something, no matter how vague or simplified that definition is. Because if it doesn't correspond to anything, Ellen's "I'm a man" means the exact same thing as "I'm a hggintu": just a bunch of letters or sounds tied together without meaning.

>>18675204

>>18682260
>>18680440
>>18678096
Goddamn she was cute.

>>18682260
Though of course, if I may infer from Ellen's actions, "man" to her is: short hair, no breasts, wearing pants, disliking dresses, using flat caps and smiling less. She's a "man" because she does all those things.

Because it's amazing how most so-called trans people will do their absolute biggest effort at portraying a stereotype of the gender they're larping as. For if the gender words were just meaningless labels, a person could be a "trans woman" while looking exactly like Donald Trump; a "trans man" while looking exactly like Ivanka Trump. Yet for some reason we don't see any of that.

>>18682260
>If you say you are something, then you must be able to give a definition of that something, no matter how vague or simplified that definition is.
Why? Most identities don't correspond to something "real". Being American doesn't correspond to anything real either. You could say it relates to a piece of land, but it only our conceptualization of that land as tied to an identity. So if I'm to follow your logic that being trans is a mental illness so would being an American or any other nationality.

>>18682400
>if the gender words were just meaningless labels, a person could be a "trans woman" while looking exactly like Donald Trump; a "trans man" while looking exactly like Ivanka Trump. Yet for some reason we don't see any of that.
Just because the words themselves have no meaning beyond the meaning we give to them, doesn't mean we don't associate the words with certain appearances. A person claiming to be a trans woman while looking like Trump doesn't make sense to us because the identity does not correspond to our expectation of it. But there's nothing essential about the word itself which necessitates it being one thing. In an alternate world we could just as easily imagine the word "trans woman" corresponding to being like a man.

>>18682400
>if the gender words were just meaningless labels, a person could be a "trans woman" while looking exactly like Donald Trump; a "trans man" while looking exactly like Ivanka Trump
This is true, but they are not meaningless labels. They are socially constructed labels. That you are male is a biological truth, that you are a Man is a constructed one