/lit/ - Literature

2 options: cope or rope

>>18672244
>an attempt was made in the 20th century in an major event to once again reinstate roman values, this failed and got defeated

and what was this attempt? fascism is as modernist as it gets despite how much they claim to be harbingers of tradition and heroic values

>>18672244
Let the past rot, create a new civilization.

if you read foucault's history of sexuality, it starts to be clear that christianity basically attached itself to the way roman morals were already drifting. there wasn't some bolshevik revolution style total reversal of history there. this is why a lot of lgbt people are not enthusiastic about foucault's work. he shows that classical antiquity was not just one big long gay orgy until one day the christians cancelled it all.

>Implying that the nazis weren't full of ressentiment

romans where already leaving classical morality behind. someone said the roman empire only fought defensive wars just like america. the greeks were the last people in the west who offered no justification for their conquering.

>what do we do now master morality bros?
>implying Nietzsche wanted to "bring back master morality"
Read more Nietzsche.

Captcha: MY MAN

>>18672244
>Nietzsche fag
>Is actually some neo-nazi sad white boy angry at the "modern world"
You guys have ruined Nietzsche harder than the french could have ever hoped to

>>18672828
>and what was this attempt?
National socialism, not fascism

>>18672958
You haven't even read Genealogy and you think we're "ruining" Nietzsche, when he stated this stuff plainly himself.

>>18672244
The best way is with a counter-revolution. Then any changes will be possible.

>>18672958
in Genealogy he literally talks about the eternal conflict of the blond Aryan beast against Judea

>>18673442
>the blond Aryan beast
>"Roman, Arabian, Germanic, Japanese nobility, Homeric heroes, Scandinavian Vikings – in this requirement they are all alike"

Japanese and Arabs are not blond, last time I checked.

What exactly are Roman morals? It feels like Jewish-Christian morals are so ubiquitous now that they have become hard to notice, like air.

>>18673490
>What exactly are Roman morals?
People are not equal. Take pride in your earthly deeds. Clean your room.

>>18673496
wash your penis?

>>18672244
Pls kill yourself, this is the most cringe and uneducated thread up right now.

Try reading more than Nietzsche.

>>18672949
Kekked.

>>18673456

>>18673512
>posts a halfbreed
Keep coping cunt. Arabs are not blonde.

>>18673534
Is there anything more pathetic than the children of whores of conflicts past?

Yes. You.

>>18673442
If you're talking about the blonde beasts, then he is literally talking about lions.

>>18672244

>>18673490
kill babies, have gay sex, conquer the world

>>18673490

>>18673442
>>18673578
Has it ever occurred to you that he might be referencing both?

>>18672244
Some people are working on a fungus that will exterminate all staple crops within 50 years of its release. This will be the reset humanity needs.

>>18673599
Callicles in Gorgias also talked about blond beasts having in mind people with aristocratic predisposition, and scholars have pointed out the similarities between Nietzsche and Callicles. It could just mean a more metaphorical type of an aristocratic man, that is domesticated trough christian and modern values.

>>18673612
It probably does, but that doesn't exclude the non-metaphorical reading alongside it. OP was right in seeing that Nietzsche avocated for Roman/Aryan values while attacking semitic ("Judeo-Christian") values.

>>18673621
>Nietzsche avocated for Roman/Aryan values while attacking semitic
Nietzsche talks about the conflict of the aristocracy vs. the priests.

Aristocrats were originally dumb fucking animals - vital, but forgetful of the shit they have committed seconds earlier (hence, their good mood is because they don't even comprehend the shit they do).
Priests made you "an interesting animal" (stimulated development of intelligence, culture, memory by inflicting punishments upon you) - but they are also fucking insane. And their overzealousness is ultimately going to crush you, if you don't tone it the fuck down.


True danger, however, comes not from the priests themselves, but from the rabble, whom these priests crowd-control. These ones infect you into starting to doubt your "right to happiness".
While for the useless rabble, these crowd-control techniques (know your place, pride is bad, mkay?) are necessary and good (they keep the weak ones leashed and resentful solely at themselves), the consequences of applying the same shit for the aristocracy (whose ruthlessness and viciousness is the source of their superiority) is ultimately disastrous.


"In all ages the Church wished to annihilate its enemies: we, the immoralists and Antichrists, see our advantage in the survival of the Church. Even in political life, hostility has now become more spiritual,—much more cautious, much more thoughtful, and much more moderate. Almost every party sees its self-preservative interests in preventing the Opposition from going to pieces; and the same applies to politics on a grand scale. A new creation, more particularly, like the new Empire, has more need of enemies than friends: only as a contrast does it begin to feel necessary, only as a contrast does it *become* necessary. And we behave in precisely the same way to the "inner enemy": in this quarter too we have spiritualised enmity, in this quarter too we have understood its value." (c) Nietzsche, "Twilight of the Idols"

>>18673621
Of course, but the metaphorical (actually, conceptual) reading provides an opening: aristocracy is not wholly subordinated to particular (Roman/Aryan) values anymore, its not something we have to go "back to" in an idealized way, its always there with us and we just have to be more conscious of aristocratic drives. The little lion cubs should be prevented from domestication as >>18673628 articulates well. We have to invent new ways of aristocracy propagation instead of nostalgic reterritorializations.

>>18673152
Same modernist crap.

>>18673823
>Make new version of Roman ideals
>"modernist crap"
>Copy the Roman Empire
>"stop larping"
What do you suggest then?

>>18673456
Not really don't a good job of trying to sell the idea that Nietzsche isn't an "angry neo-nazi sad white boy" with this list, are you?

>>18673838
PSA: not the anon from before, but I agree with him.
Transcendence. That is the whole point of the Übermensch. Modern traditionalism is even more in service of the last man than the mainstream. All fascist, and more broadly, authoritarian action has been a giant ego-cope by leaders with small souls and dicks and their followers with even less merit. Personally I think, ironically enough, a more leftist approach would work in the short-term, by eliminating things like healthcare and education from the equation, and at least partially neutralizing the distractions such as race. Then the number of those with the potential to ascend could do so in numbers large enough to start making a difference. I am very pessimistic that anything of the sort could actually happen though. In the end we can only realistically strive as individuals and are probably doomed in the grand scheme of things. But, as long as there are people, there is potential for greatness.

>>18672244
Roman values lmao. Rome was the globohomo of its time, fuck you niggers are so FUCKING cringe

>>18673456
cope (((Kaufmann))) fag
footnote:
*the blonde beast is not a racial concept and does not refer to the nordic race*

nietzsche's passage:
>the deep icy mistrust the German still arouses today whenever he gets into a position of power is an echo of that inextinguishable horror with which Europe observed for centuries that raging of the blonde Germanic beast

>>18674270

Only a minority of germans are blonde haired lmao. He probably means fair featured as opposed to blonde specifically. But he may be referring to lions

>>18674386
Regardless of the literal accuracy of the description, he's referring to qualities of a particular race of people.

>>18674270
>“The worst readers are those who behave like plundering troops: they take away a few things they can use, dirty and confound the remainder, and revile the whole.”

t. Nietzsche

This is what you're doing when you ignore the part about other cultures than Germanics. Cope.

>>18672244
Fascism is ascetic ideal

>>18672244
Read this too

>>18673490
>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Virtue#Roman_virtues

>christian values won out
someons mad. cope and seethe fagan cuck,

>>18674525
>>“The best readers are those who behave like salvage crews: they take away whatever is of value, sweep the rest into the trash, and revile the whole.”

t. Me.

>>18674612
At least you admit you're misinterpreting Nietzsche
on purpose.

>>18674647
I'm interpreting him the correct way, not misinterpreting. He didn't realize what he got wrong when he was writing it.

>>18674525
>"This renunciation of interpretation generally (that is, of forcing, doctoring, abridging, omitting, suppressing, inventing, falsifying, and all the other ESSENTIAL attributes of interpretation) - all this, considered broadly, expresses the asceticism of virtue, quite as efficiently as does any repudiation of the senses [as in life denying religions]."

t. Neetch

>>18672244
>>18673152
>>18673442
Nazism wasn't "an attempt to revive Roman morals", you fucking sperg. It was weaponised German nationalism, a movement born out of pure ressentiment and fear:
>ressentiment over having lost World War 1
>fear of communism and the "asiatic hordes" (Slavs) from the East
How about you read some actual history instead of browsing /pol/ and bending Nietzsche's words trying to make him look like a nazi

>>18674750
A) They didn't lose WW1, the Germans were still on French soil, so it is not ressentiment but rather feelings of betrayal by their own government. Ressentiment is caused by an inversion of values due to inadequacy, not a demand for justice.
B) "Fear" can be equally cast as "disgust", something Nietzsche attributes to the master with respect to the lesser beings he inevitably decides to conquer. If the Nazis were "scared", then it was only fear of their own government (Weimar's) incapability to deal with those foreigners and communists.

>>18674572
>christian values won out
Christianity is the middle man. You're literally slavishly following semitic desert values you absolute cuck

>>18674840
>They didn't lose WW1
man, what would I do without /lit/

>>18674750
Wanting to prove your worth, set the scale aright, through warfare isn't ressentiment

Germany was arbitrarily punished after WW1 because they were deemed "too powerful" by the allied powers, which is pure ressentiment

Pussy n

>>18674525
I never said other cultures couldn't embody that spirit, heck even Hitler, according to the nuremberg laws, considered the Japanese as honorary aryans. My contention is with the absolute gaslighting that Kaufmann showcases in his highly agenda driven footnotes.

In the footnotes he says it has nothing to do with race, but in the next passage nietzsche explicitly names races of people (even non-europeans ones) and then goes even further to single out the germanic race

>>18674840
It's absolutely absurd that anyone unironically defends the stab in the back myth in current year. It doesn't matter that they were still on French soil, they had failed their last chance offensive in the spring and then lost at the battle of Amiens in august 1918. They were outnumbered and outgunned and troops were surrendering in droves. The generals knew they had lost. The fact that they were still on French territory when they surrendered is the grain of truth that allowed the bullshit to grow and spread with a veneer of authority. But it is just BS anon. There were still German troops in various occupied territories when they surrendered in WW2 also, I suppose that means they were stabbed in the back then as well?

>>18674863
Kauffman is right at least in the sense, that Nietzsche doesnt talk about race as we understand this concept today. For Nietzsche, race was just a group of people that have been chiseled out trough constant pressure, thats why he considers ancient greece a separate race. They colonized everything around them and this group individualized itself trough a certain cultural selection. Its not a group of people that are characterized by certain physical/appearance/inborn qualities.

>>18672244
Nietzsche didn't advocate for master morality retard.

>>18674880
>>18674860
>retards who can't into reading comprehension think that is what I think, when I'm speaking about THEIR perspective

>>18674861
The treaty of Versailles was objectively more lenient than the treaty of Brest-Litovsk which the Germans had imposed on the Russians the previous year, in terms of loss of territory, population, and industry. Show us your mental gymnastics about how that was NOT an example of ressentiment when the Versailles treaty was. Please anon.

>>18674890
kys leftist retard, you absolute imbecile of specimen. you really should get your head checked before posting here ever again

>>18674893
>only pretending to be retarded

Nice back pedalling you silly billy

>>18674888
That's why he was so adamantly anti-antisemitic: he held jews to be a superior race to Europeans. The latter were intermixed and degenerated, whereas the jews have been individualized trough constant pressure. He literally had plans for interbreeding between high prussian officers and the jew women, since his plans were uber-national (to create a new european race, where jews had their own place).

>>18674840
Germany did lose WW1, and apparently some people still can't cope with this fact over 100 years later.
>"disgust", something Nietzsche attributes to the master with respect to the lesser beings he inevitably decides to conquer
[citation needed]
>>18674861
Punishing someone for starting an aggressive war is not "ressentiment". It's literally what every sane person would do. Do you think invaders should get away with a slap on the wrist?

>>18673152
You don’t know what national socialism is.

>>18674861
They were so powerful they lost two major wars in a row and were humiliated both times.

>>18674897
The Russians weren't powerful, their state failed, that's why the Germans inflicted a punishment on the Russians - in order to exert their power

Meanwhile, the allied punished Germany with fictions like "international law" and "morality"

>>18674905
>Punishing someone for starting an aggressive war is not "ressentiment".
If it is done openly, fine, but not with judeo-christian or "rights" faggotry

Just wanted to pop in here to say thanks for inflicting the board with more cancer OP!

>>18674904
>That's why he was so adamantly anti-antisemitic
I'm pretty sure that if I would have published on the genealogy of morals in todays Germany I would have been tried for inciting anti-Semitic hate speech and been jailed.

nietzsche's passage:
>as is well known, the priests are the most evil enemies - but why? because they are the most impotent... the truly great haters in world history have always been priests; likewise the most ingenious haters: other kinds of spirit hardly come into consideration when compared with the spirit of priestly vengefulness... the jews, that priestly people.

>>18672244
The Purpose of Creation

God is absolutely free and therefore if he creates it is because he wants to create. He wants to create in order to reveal and communicate his goodness and love to another. So creation is a freely willed act of our God who loves and who, St. John tells us, is love. Only a Christian can say that God is love, none of the other religions, monotheistic or other, could possibly make such a claim. But a Christian can, and in order to be true to revelation, must affirm this about God. For God to be love he must be more than one person, for love requires a lover and a beloved. In Scotus’ theology God is the Trinity in a communion of love – an eternal movement of the lover (the Father), the beloved (the Son) and the sharing of love (the Spirit). This Trinity who creates is the model of all reality and especially of human relationships.

>>18674923
Get some reading comprehension

>>18674905
>[citation needed]
Read genealogy. It's what Nietzsche means by "beyond good and evil." Bad is not evil, it is simply revolting and sickening to the higher races. For the lower races, bad is evil (which is strength, beauty, enjoyment), ugly ("revolting") things are actually good, "blessed are the meek." This is called the inversion of values that Nietzsche speaks about.
>Punishing someone for starting an aggressive war is not "ressentiment".
Yeah, it is. It's only what a sane "slave" would do in Nietzsche's eyes. For Nietzsche, the master loves his enemy, never hates them. Hate and retribution is something only the slave knows, so it is sane for a slave, not sane for a master. You don't really get Nietzsche if you can't understand this.

>>18673628
>>18673648
Nothing of this makes any sense. It’s just forced rhetoric over forced rhetoric.
Read Guénon instead. Much more balanced and crystal-clear views.

>>18674931
yes, of course it would be. But keep in mind that everything he says about jews in GM is in contrast to the master morality, so of course he is going to shit on them. On the other hand, Nietzsche is not an essentialist, so even if jews have certain bad qualities, they do not determine them tout court and when considered in broader relations, Nietzsche sees a certain good quality in them. They often articulated when compared with europeans. E.g.
>“Don’t let in any more Jews! And lock the doors to the east in particular (even to Austria)!” – so commands the instinct of a people whose type is still weak and indeterminate enough to blur easily and be easily obliterated by a stronger race.” Beyond Good and Evil, §251

He thought antisemites were stupid by singling out the bad qualities of jews and not seeing them as a means to something greater.

>>18674948
>For Nietzsche, the master loves his enemy, never hates them. Hate and retribution is something only the slave knows, so it is sane for a slave, not sane for a master.
this is good, but just to clarify and make it easier for people: the slave looks at the external world and has it to blame, he senses fault in it; they reason that the external world is to blame for their ill fortune and low position in life. the thought that the world and the fabric of reality is conspiring against you; this is resentment.

>>18674964
cont. more of this is in "Nietzsche as a Philosopher of Racialized Breeding Robert Bernasconi" article.

>>18674948
Point me to the quotes in which Nietzsche talks about "higher races" and "lower races".

>For Nietzsche, the master loves his enemy, never hates them.
Kek, please explain just how the Nazis loved their enemies, I'd love to see the sheer mental gymnastics

>>18674893
You already btfo yourself numerous times, wehraboo retard. Nietzsche hated Germans btw

>>18674899
Stating that Nietzsche didn't advocate for a return to master morality isn't a sign of leftism, its a sign of reading comprehension.

>>18675005
>the slave looks at the external world and has it to blame, he senses fault in it; they reason that the external world is to blame for their ill fortune and low position in life.
Isn't it curious how in reality the ones who jerk off about master morality are the ones with low position in life?

I don’t get the second dissertation

>>18674853
Not according to Christians, LOL.

>>18672244
Anon, you are wrong. Judeochristian values haven't won, and will ultimately lose. There's still hope in Maoism, Zen Buddhism and atheism. We are moving away from Judea _and _Rome at the same time. Yes, Judea won over Rome, but it will ultimately lose as well.

>>18675040
total gaslighting but okey, what did he advocate for then?

>>18675015
>Point me to the quotes in which Nietzsche talks about "higher races" and "lower races".
I just told you, it's in the first and second essays of Genealogy. He's not speaking about race in the sense of "Germans", but of aristocratic versus plebeian, if this even needs to be said.
>please explain just how the Nazis loved their enemies
Hitler repeatedly expressed his respect for England, and he was angry with France but never hated the French (The French even had their own SS division once they were annexed). The Soviets were not really even considered equals in contrast, they were just a horde to be overcome (which eventually became too much, in terms of sheer raw material, for them to held down).

>>18672244
>Semitic values triumphed and roman values were left in the dust bin
imagine thinking this shit LMAO. Semitic values were 90% the same as Roman ones.

>>18674923
it took literally the whole world to bring them down. also regarding WW1 they almost didn't lose. they were about to sign a white peace with London before USA attacked. read more.

>>18675072
The creation of new values, not a return to old ones.

>>18675056
The root of conscience is not in some kind of "good nature" but in breeding certain kind of people (those who can keep promises) trough punishment. Man's state of nature is to be an aggressive, forgetful animal, but society suppresses those animals so it can function. Out of this repression grows bad consciene - primal instincts turned against itself (hence depression, guilt, anxiety etc).

>>18675067
>Maoism
communism is semitic values par excellence
>Zen Buddhism
asceticism; life rejecting
>atheism
nihilism

yeah, I think we lost. Either way Judea wins again.

>>18675099
And what new values might those be? You seem to have confused "master morality" with something that exclusively exists in the past. That is not what Nietzsche meant. It seem you lack reading comprehension if you think "master morality" is only something historical. The Übermensch is meant to be a creator of the same sorts of values, merely in their own unique form.

>>18675072
He didn't "advocate" for anything. He prophecized the coming of the übermensch, who is beyond both master and slave morality. Please attempt to get a basic grasp of things before letting out your moronic opinions next time.

Retard thread

>>18675080
>He's not speaking about race in the sense of "Germans", but of aristocratic versus plebeian, if this even needs to be said.
Then why did you earlier ( >>18674840 )
apply it to the relations between Germans and Slavs?

>>18675099
and what are these values if not akin to the master values (hierarchal, aristocratic, anti-egalitarian, self-overcoming, competitiveness) that the romans held? I mean you do now that at the end of the first treatise he does swear allegiance to good/bad?

>The First Treatise concludes with a brief section (§17) stating his own allegiance to the good/bad system of evaluation

>>18675109
>>atheism
>nihilism
no

>>18675107
It’s all so dumb. Of course I don’t get it. Madman’s rants are not supposed to be understood.

>>18675109
>communism
maoism is anything but jewish. also dont use the term "semitic" if you wanna refer to jews. Arabs are semitics as well.
>asceticism
not quite. zen buddhism is much more. it doesn't require asceticism at all. it's almost a combination of stoicism and agnosticism.
>nihilism
true, it can be nihilism. which is why i strongly recommend one of the other two. atheism alone is not a philosophy anyway. it merely is "non theism". not very useful.

>>18674270
Here's the rest of that passage you posted:
>The deep and icy mistrust the German still arouses today whenever he gets into a position of power is an echo of that inextinguishable horror with which Europe observed for centuries that raging of the blond Germanic beast (although between the old Germanic tribes and us Germans there exists hardly a conceptual relationship, let alone one of blood).

So on the one hand, the other guy is wrong for thinking that Nietzsche wasn't talking about an ancient genetic race. But on the other hand, you are disingenuous for posting that incomplete passage and leaving out the part where Nietzsche says that modern Germans are barely blood related to the blonde master race of the past. For the fact of the matter is that, were Nietzsche to be speaking of a genetic race that was literally blonde (which he was), then he would necessarily also have to acknowledge that that race is almost entirely gone in Europe, since the vast majority of modern Europeans are dark-haired.

>>18675117
>The Übermensch is meant to be a creator of the same sorts of values
The Übermensh is supposed to create the same sorts of values that culminated in the establishment of slave morality?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FUAaFavh8sA
OP is a faggot.

>>18675127
Because Germans happen to be predominantly of aristocratic stock, Slavs predominantly plebeian. Nietzsche talks about this with respect to the native European inhabitants, and the Aryan conquerors from the steppes in the first essay. Slavs are probably more closely related to the original European natives, Germans more related to the Aryan conquerors, this is at least what Nietzsche hints at in that book. It also makes sense when you compare the general character of Slavs and Germans.

>>18675144
>So on the one hand, the other guy is wrong for thinking that Nietzsche wasn't talking about an ancient genetic race.
How does that go against anything I was saying? The fact that I left out the remaining quote has nothing to do with my argument. I never claimed that these blonde beast's existed today

>>18675155
>>18675080
>when Nietzsche was talking about "higher races" he didn't mean Germans, he meant the aristocratic class
>Germans, unlike their neighbors, are "predominantly of aristocratic stock" which is obvious once you look at their "general character"
:)

>>18675176
It's pretty obvious you were arguing in favor of a Nazi reading of Nietzsche. You wouldn't have left out that part of the passage otherwise.

>>18675138
what particularly do you not understand, I may help if its something specific? Its just a distinction between two types of people. Imagine a man in a state of nature - he is aggressive, forgetful, joyful, does whatever h wants. Know imagine the same type in a society, where he is constrained by indebtness to others, promises, social norms etc. All of his primal instincts are supressed, he feels like shit. What was once natural, neutral, carefree now attain the mark of "bad", so if he feel impulses of aggresion, violence etc., he starts to feel bad, hence the bad conscience.

>>18675121
>He didn't "advocate" for anything.
Of course he did. He had a life project, you've clearly never read him and you're spouting liberal/leftist talking points. The overman was not prophecized, nietzsche concluded that the Last Man could very well triumph and by the looks of it the Last Man has triumphed

>>18675152
No, he is meant to banish slave morality with its opposite, and a new breed of man (which we are supposed to work towards) is supposed to take the reigns, so to speak. Slave morality might rise once more in the future, he could never look that far ahead. Life is in flux, life is a battle of powers after all.

>>18675184
What's hard to understand? He mainly spoke about aristocrats, but he referred to the Germans as having higher origins once or twice. It's just not his main focus, because he wasn't a nationalist himself.

>>18675155
uh-oh, the krauts are getting uppity again. How many times do we need to teach you this lesson?

>>18675194
I'm not that guy, I'm OP but this is something that I have a hard time understanding. Does Nietzsche mean that the priestly class literally created the phenomenon of memory in societal man? I know he mentions punishment, but how could humans go from having no concept of memory (being in a state of forgetfulness) to developing this ability?

How does this relate to the concept of shame, guilt and embarrassment? I, just like any other human, tend to dwell on past mistakes and situations and these memories may in some cases cripple us for the rest of our lives. Is memory the precursor to anxiety?

>>18675205
>What's hard to understand?
Nothing is hard to understand. I know you're a nazi trying to misinterpret Nietzsche on purpose to push your agenda. First you matter-of-factly said that Germans were a higher race, then you said that according to Nietzsche no particular race is higher/lower than another, and now you're snaking back around with the whole "Germans are aristocratic" thing.

>>18675192
>It's pretty obvious you were arguing in favor of a Nazi reading of Nietzsche.
does this bother you? even if I did (i'm not saying i did) does this bother you on a personally level? can we still be friends?

>>18672949
>>implying Nietzsche wanted to "bring back master morality"
so what did he want?

>>18675237
>does pushing a disingenuous reading of a philosopher bother you?
Yes, I have to say that it does. If you're interested in discussing someone's works and don't want to deal with someone like me who actually reads, do so without your political baggage getting in the way.

>>18675233
>First you matter-of-factly said that Germans were a higher race,
Which is correct with respect to Slavs
>then you said that according to Nietzsche no particular race is higher/lower than another
No "national" race, not no "particular" race. Nietzsche was not a nationalist, as I just said, but he didn't deny the reality of general ethnic tendencies in terms of genetic groups and admixture.
>and now you're snaking back around with the whole "Germans are aristocratic" thing.
I said Germans are generally more aristocratic in nature than the Slavs. This, again, does not require much intellect to understand. Look at a black African and an average German and tell me which one is more noble in appearance. The same applies to Slavs and Germans, there is just a smaller difference on average. Also, again, read Genealogy, because he supports this point, at least with respect to general genetic groups, not specifically Germans and Slavs. He speaks of the conquering Aryans as opposed to the native European inhabitants. And then he insinuates that this original distinction between noble and plebeian has subsisted until today, just in a less obvious form.

>>18675194
It’s just a bunch of bullshit. The whole thing is so twisted that seems to be the exact opposite of the truth. The more history progresses, the more entropy increases. This is under everyone’s eyes. How can you say that man was originally a wild beast and now is constrained into some sort of imposed discipline? Fucking kek, it’s literally the opposite. In the primordial state man was necessarily more contemplative and spiritual, then he became more and more corrupted and attached to beastly things, and human law is a result of this degeneration. The system that Nietzsche blames is so obviously the product of his beloved “will of power”. He advocates a solution that is actually the problem. My god, I feel completely bullshitted by this German idiot. Those who identified him with a satanist were correct.

>>18675263
>>First you matter-of-factly said that Germans were a higher race,
>Which is correct with respect to Slavs
If that's true why did Nietzsche desperately wish to be a Slav instead of a German?

>>18675273
>In the primordial state man was necessarily more contemplative and spiritual, then he became more and more corrupted and attached to beastly things
the christcuck reveals himself

>>18675275
I think he wanted to reclaim his supposed noble Polish heritage, it wasn't to do with being a Slav in particular. I don't think he said much about Slavs, as a general ethnic group, anyway.

>>18675280
>posts meme picture created by a tranny gamer who reads manga
>thinks I care about his reply

>>18675275
He was convinced he was related to Polish nobles, which is very different from caring about Slavic plebs.

>>18675263
>He speaks of the conquering Aryans as opposed to the native European inhabitants.
Trying to arbitrarily tie the Indo-European expansion of 5000 years ago to modern-day Germans is super cringe. It's obvious you're grasping for straws at this point. Just go back to /pol/.

>>18675222
Chronologically, menmotechnics, the punishment and reaction of memory antecede the priestly type and is just a condition of any society. Society can only function trough people who can promise, make debts etc., hence creation of memory and conscience. As Nietzsche mentions in one place, the priest is just an addition to this long process. He (just like many others in his times) was a proponent of lamarckism, so he literally thought that punishments bred out a certain type of people (but this point doesnt invalidate his overall point imo, since punishment and intensification of memory IS condition sine qua non of every society and leads to the same bad side effects that he accents). One of N's points is that the creation of memory creates conscience - you start to regard instincts and drives that were (or are) natural, neutral as something bad, because of that you start to investigate and judge yourself, which leads to anxiety, depression etc. Here comes the priest. Socially, his role is therapeutic - he resonates with the suffering of masses, being weak himself he feels them. He introduces ideas and concepts that legitimize their suffering, now they know why they suffer (original sin or other mystified concept, what caused it, when will it end etc. The same punishment that existed in earlier societies becomes moralized, hence the bad conscience. Its no longer "socially" bad to be violent, but also "morally". This paradoxically means more suffering, but this new suffering is explained, justified and is happily accepted by the masses (N talks about fighting suffering with suffering in 3rd essay).

>>18675093
Nah senpai, Russia and UK were enough to take them down. France and US barely did anything.

>>18675297
The question of why he was so embarrassed of his German heritage that he disowned it and larped as a supposedly inferior race remains.

>>18675299
>Trying to arbitrarily tie the Indo-European expansion of 5000 years ago to modern-day Germans is super cringe.
No, not really. The R1B haplogroup, in contrast to the I1 and I2 (Slav), which are native to Europe, is spread quite strongly specifically throughout western Europe. Slavs do have some R1As, but not in the same concentration.

>>18675273
>How can you say that man was originally a wild beast and now is constrained into some sort of imposed discipline?
the murder rates among hunter-gatherers are usually ten times higher than those in our society. Investigators also noted lack of mental illnesses among them. Those things are empirically verifiable. Ancient people were more hunting and killing oriented, and contemplation, stipirituality only served those ends.

>>18675304
I'm currently on the 2nd essay. Does Nietzsche have a prescription to all of this?

>>18675311
Wtf are you talking about? There is more rqb in Spain than in Germany.

>>18675327
*R1b

>>18675311
>R1b, the haplogroup most commonly found in the British Isles and Spain, is totally the descendants of Indo-European conquerors from the steppes of Asia
Just stop man. You're embarassing yourself.

>>18675307
It's not much of a mystery. According to his sister, while growing up, their grandmother told them that they were related to Polish nobles. Nietzsche was also disgusted by all the anti-Semitism, Teutomania, and alcoholism around him, seeing it as a lack of culture and good taste. Naturally, he would start to believe that maybe he had a genetically distinct background compared to the Germans around him.

>>18675327
So?
>>18675342
How? Your map proves me correct.

>>18675314
To what specifically? Because in 2nd essay he touches upon thousands of topics. He of course champions forgetfulness, alleviation of suffering that would not further damage people etc (he clearly contests the priestly type, seeing himself as an better alternative and suggesting physical activity, better diets instead of mystified concepts that jsut worsen the suffering).

>>18675342
>>R1b, the haplogroup most commonly found in the British Isles and Spain, is totally the descendants of Indo-European conquerors from the steppes of Asia
It's not about where it's found most commonly today, because it is also found commonly in Central Asia. The point is they migrated thousands of years ago, and this is what the leading experts in the field agree on (ie, that it migrated out of Central Asia with the Aryan Expansions).

>>18675346
You just arbitrarily proclaimed that R1b is the "Indo-European" haplogroup, even though it's most concentrated in fucking Ireland. Also notice that the haplogroup denoted as "Aryan" on the map (R1a) is most commonly found in Poland, Ukraine and Russia.
Nothing that you said has any grounding in reality. What you're doing right now is the German equivalent of an African-American from Chicago trying to convince me that his ancestors were Pharaohs of Egypt.

>>18675348
>To what specifically?
A prescription specifically for memory. Memory, not in the sense were it leads you to remember where you left your keys, but rather the kind of memory that gives you crippling anxiety, makes you feel embarrassed, depressed and feel ashamed?

>>18675362
>You just arbitrarily proclaimed that R1b is the "Indo-European" haplogroup,
All of the top researchers agree that it is, due to its geographic dispersion from Central Asia. The Irish never migrated into Central Asia, the Aryans (from Central Asia) migrated all over Eurasia, and eventually got into Ireland as well. If you don't believe me, just read any basic book on this particular haplogroup. Even wikipedia will help you.

>>18675348
>He of course champions forgetfulness
so he champions forgetfulness but how do you actually become forgetful?

>>18675370
>Even wikipedia will help you.
OK, I looked at Wikipedia, and it says that the "Indo-European haplogroups" are R1a (red), R1b (yellow), and J (green). Now look at the map again - the most Indo-European nations in that case would be the Irish, Welsh and Polish, each having at least 75% of these. Meanwhile Germany has barely over 50%. Now what mental gymnasitcs are you going to come up with next?

>>18675369
>>18675391
I dont really know whether he gives prescriptions to this. If you find out something, feel free to share. if I had to talk for him, it would probably include individualization process for him which has two parts - reactive and active. Reactive would be - a conscious fight with that, which makes you shift attention to the past. Elimination of things, that slow you down essentially (something akin to meditation). And active - focusing on your "predominant" drives - plans, desires, instincts that make you what your are and letting them "grow" (to subordinate everything else to its aim).

>>18675403
Why are you assuming the indoeuropeans were of the nordic phenotype? They could just as well have had a great percentage of people with dark hair/eyes.

>>18674853
nothing wrong with that

>>18675312
I don’t think you can claim contemplation and spirituality are essentially linked to violence.

>>18675432
What? I never said that. Maybe you have me confused with some other poster.

>>18673583
He said roman ideals, retard.

>dumb thread on dumb neetche
>dumb replies focusing on dumb race
Oh no no no no no you’re so far from the truth bros

>>18675461
romans killed babies, had homo sex and tried to conquer the world, whats your point, pal?

>>18675450
I don't know it was you, but regarding the high prevalence of R1B in places like Spain, Portugal, France or Ireland that don't generally have the northern phenotype as the dominant one, doesn't negate the fact that those populations come from the indoeuropean migrations.

>>18675475
People who confuse "nordic" or "blonde" for "indo-european" are mentally challenged.

>>18675154
based

>>18675468
>romans killed babies
No they didn’t, you anglo scum.

>>18675546
>he doesnt know
https://www.livescience.com/42834-ancient-roman-infanticide.html

>>18675562
>believing anglojewish “science”

>>18673152
>pretending they're not the same thing
Do /pol/tards really?

>open thread
>full of kvetching
>close thread

>>18675576
>being a literally fucking illiterate mongoloid low iq shitstain
retards like you wouldnt exist if we lived in ancient rome, you would have been killed off
>Even the so-called refined and educated Cicero (106-43 BC) in his On the Laws 3.8 states: “Deformed infants shall be killed.” The “deformity” could be an unwanted child (Latin exposti—“left without shelter”), a sickly child, a deformed child or simply a wrong sex child. The Stoic philosopher Seneca (4 BC-65 AD) comments casually in On Anger 1.15: “…mad dogs we knock on the head…unnatural progeny we destroy; we drown even children at birth who are weakly and abnormal.”

>>18674840
>They didn't lose WW1

>>18673512
I wonder which European is the father.

>>18675584
They aren’t the same thing and you are embarrassing yourself. Go back to your Deriddian nonsense, cuck.

>>18672828
>fascism is as modernist as it gets despite how much they claim to be harbingers of tradition and heroic values
Why do you call it modern? Because they built highways, cars and acknowledged other advances in the field of science? That just makes it more efficient. What matters is that it was a vehement reaction against the prevailing surroundings of the time. In fact, they reacted so hard that I can almost guarantee Hitler will still be a boogieman 500 years from now.

>>18675584
>hurr durr everythings a /pol/tard
Get a load of this idiot. You aren't going to be commemorated for not reading the appropriate literature on a literature board.

>>18675238
jesus christ if you even read the first two pages of thus spoke zarathustra you would know the answer to your dumb fucking question

>>18674179
>authoritarian action has been a giant ego-cope by leaders with small souls and dicks and their followers with even less merit
If that's your interpretation of the events of the 20th century then you're quite literally a retard. The sexual projection here too is always a calling card of some bunkerchan shill.

>ironically enough, a more leftist approach would work in the short-term
Yeah, like I said, you're a retard. It's funny how I predicted this without even reading that far.

>and at least partially neutralizing the distractions such as race
Move to Africa then. You can talk to the jungle monkeys dancing around the fire pit about abolishing whitey until your hearts content.

>In the end we can only realistically strive as individuals and are probably doomed in the grand scheme of things
Yeah, you definitely are. Lol. Enjoy getting raped to death by a pack of feral niggers. Hopefully you get your paycheck from JIDF beforehand.

>>18673838
It's a shill just ignore him

>>18674208
>Rome was the globohomo of its time
Wrong and historically illiterate-pilled. They 'Romanized' people but they had a clear fucking conception of what it meant to be a Roman.

>>18675952
>>18675935
>>18675927
>>18675911
>>18675891
seething samefag

>>18675141
>maoism is anything but jewish
Yeah, fucking dilate you cringe leftist faggot.

>>18675141
Sneed commie faggot

>>18675092
Whoever made that meme has about 2 brain cells and is probably an amerimutt. I'm Italian and none of that is even true

>>18675911
It’s actually an intelligent question, you arrogant asshole

>>18674923
>there are still people in the current year cheering for jews as they trample the very fabric of life itself into the dirt
Some people really are pathetic.

>>18674890
Go read deleuze and dilate, subhuman leftist faggot.

>>18676018
jews are smarter and more powerful than you, keep seething

>>18675584
Lurk moar

>>18676001
ah yes, because there's no stupid Italians in the world.

>>18672958
>You guys have ruined Nietzsche harder than the french could have ever hoped to
Pretty sure it was the French leftist 'intellectuals' ruined Nietzsche. Considering Hitler was the closest thing to the overman.

>>18676018
>>18676006
>>18676001
>>18675991
>>18675980
>>18675952
>>18675935
>>18675927
>>18675911
>>18675891
>>18675884
>>18676028
Holy shit, this amount of seethe from one samefag is incredible, please seek help immadiately

>>18675980
wtf is this? are you mentally challenged? 8 jews became communist? so what? why is communism a jewish plot? why not a german plot? or a chinese plot? or a russian plot? so many germans, chinese, russians etc are communist. wtf idiot.
i swear, you antisemites are the most retarded of retards. 10 jews support communists, 1000 jews don't support communists. lets focus on the 1%. baka

>>18674750
>ressentiment and fear
More like disgust and strength. The latter being forged by the former.
>How about you read some actual history instead of browsing /pol/
Not an argument.
>bending Nietzsche's words trying to make him look like a nazi
Oh, so basically what leftists have been doing since at least the 60s then? It's you that lives in fear, fear of some boogieman that doesn't even exist.

>>18676047
Ok schizo

>>18674750
You're a retard. Go watch your favorite tranny personality on jewtube and get off this board.

>>18676059
Sweetheart... You do realize there's an objective way to detect a samefag, right?

>>18674208
>Rome was the globohomo of its time
Wrong

>>18675980
>>18675991
each and every day that goes by just makes me realize what a monumental civilizational catastrophe the defeat of germany in the war was. we will never be able to recover from this. we would need a war in the same scale, even bigger this time, to rectify the trajectory of our future. yet no man in europe would today would ever want to go through that again.

nietzsche said that the true test of our courage and strength as a people would be to face tragedy in it's most extreme sense - rivers of blood and millions of dead - and to not flinch; only then will we have overcome our predicament. sadly, i don't think anyone in europe has what it takes to re-live the 20th century. because of this we deserve what's coming our way.

>>18676058
Was that picture supposed to speak in your favor? The Germans were the sick, resentful herd, and Hitler was their priest.

>>18676071
>NO!
>starts googling ferociously
>turns out romans were pretty gay
>kills himself

>>18674179
>All fascist, and more broadly, authoritarian action has been a giant ego-cope by leaders with small souls and dicks

>>18674179
>But, as long as there are people, there is potential for greatness.
Cringe. I bet you wear a 'citizen of the earth, i fucking love science' t-shirt

>>18673504
>Try reading more than Nietzsche.
Not an argument.

>>18676075
Yeah this is spot on what N would have said. Amazing how this entire thread is the rest of you missing the point

>>18676006

>>18674179
you got it all wrong, anon. here's the plan:
>authoritarian is good
>global fascist/communist superpower promotes genetic research
>humanity unlocks genetic modifications
>now the dumbest human has IQ 150
if we do things your way, subsaharan 80IQ idiots will dilute the collective intelligence of our species. authoritarianism is the catalyst. embrace it

Posting in epic bread

>>18676078
As with all societies the more decadent it becomes the more these things will crop up

>>18676158
decadence is entirely relative, anon.

>>18676158
idk dude, the greeks were pretty gay too. and i dont think romans turned gay only _after_ they conquered the world. im pretty sure they were gay before.

This bread has reached levels of imbecility (from all the parties) that make /pol/ pale by comparison

>>18675650
>>18675891
>>18676038
It should be illegal for retarded people to post on this website.

>>18676158
>>18676169
They knew The Gay Science. Do you?

>oh hey a thread about my favorite book! finally!
>drop a couple of efortposts thinking some kind of discussion will ensue
>the thread gets hijacked by off topic seething
its all so tiresome, why do I even come here

>>18676029
LMAO
Remind me how many gorillian the ebin all powerful and le super smart kikes got wacked

>>18676187
>jews control everything!!!
>jews are powerless scum hehe
so which is it, retard schizo?

>>18676176
Kill yourself you fucking braindead

>>18676199
How many bazillion was it?
Whats the interest rate on kikes these days

>>18674904
>>18674888
>>18674905
>>18674931
>>18674964
>>18675010
> NEETschze was totally a kike goy

Holy fucking cope. Moshe working overtime to claim Nietzsche work

>>18676218
shhhhh sweatie, be a good boy and take your medication, open up wide and big! the aeroplane is flying!

>>18676234
lol, did you skip the literal words of Nietzsche where her says that jews are stronger and more pure race than europeans?

>people honestly think you can get a coherent politics position out of Nietzsche’s work
You can you’re him to practically justify anything.

>>18676237
fuck off and never post on my board troon bitch

>>18676250
why so mad, the pill didnt taste too good :( awwww, hush my little baby

>>18676252
>>18676250
>>18676237
>>18676237
>>18676218
>>18676187
>>18676029

>>18676205
If you say so, nigger.

>>18676252
kys

>>18676280
so many BASED pics, you seem a bit obsessed, huh? its like trannies live RENT FREE in your little brain carrier

>>18676243
oh absolutely
He was jewish himself

>>18676046
>a drug addict failed artist full of resentment towards people more successful was the closest thing to the overman
Pathethic

>>18676296
Live rent free on a noose

>>18676280
Some (((meds))) and (((therapy))) would help you out more than reading Nietzsche, my friend

>>18676302
>literally all of political, social, legal and theology structure is based so no one becomes ebil nazi
>literally Satan himself
>people still shit themselves as if hes gonna come back
>lives rent free

keep coping
Hitler will speak of him for a thousand years just like we speak of Caesar

>>18676312
And nothing will help you
No amount of drugs, surgeries and dilation will make you a woman.

You will never be a woman

>>18676337
>Hitler will speak of him
nuh uh, sweatie, thats where your factually incorrect. HITLER IS DEAD.

>>18676337
>Jews in control of the media demonise the cripple drug addict that limped himself into power and killed millions of them out of resentment
>somehow this makes hitler le ebin overman
You emanate pure retardation

>>18676357
>implying the system that keep the current propaganda and legal system will exist forever.

>somehow this makes hitler le ebin overman
The fact he still make you and the world SEETHE alone make him le ebin overman

>>18676382
>I'm 14
Yes, we already figured that one out

>>18676396
excellent refutation comrade
ration increased to 20 hrt pills

okay this thread has officially degenerated into a mess of retarded coping and spit. burn it.

>>18672831
This.

>>18676400
Seethe faggot, not even Mussolini, the true Nietzschean, didnt respect hitler

>>18676401
>>18676414
>Seethe faggot, not even Mussolini, the true Nietzschean, didnt respect hitler
still had to beg him to bail him out time and again

>>18676401
This happens whenever you call out a nazi on his bullshit - within maximum 3 posts he will start raving about transsexuals. Literally rent-free.

>>18676421
Still had no respect for the crackhead retard and died with more dignity, rather than an heroing himself while his country was raped by the russians.
No amount of your tranny cope can change history.

>>18676436
>>18676439
NAZI
THERE IS EBIL NAZI UNDER MY BED
NOOOOOOO HES GASSSING THE HECKIN JEWRINOS

>>18676445
spastic kid

>>18676445
Lmao he's losing it

>>18672244
>muh civilisation
domesticated assets are insane kek

>>18675314
>Does Nietzsche have a prescription to all of this?

YES

AMOR FATI

>>18672949
Based synchronicity

>>18672244
>Return to Roman ideals
>Act surprised when the ideals that BTFO Roman ideals do exactly the same thing

The idea is to produce something better that would also defeat slave morality.

Ubermensch > Christ > Romans

>>18672244
Yeah humanity has run its course. The future is a Calcutta slum. We are reverting back to life as it existed in 25,000 BC with the masses of humanity being ruled over by fanatically cruel WOMYN DYKES. Men are malnourished, with poor hygiene and living in collective insanity sharing 20-30 morons to a mud hut eating filth and slop off the floor with their barehands. Ideology has destroyed human nuance and integrity, honesty is catapulted into the dustbin of history as we revert back to the rule of mania and hysteria and these WOMYN priestesses shrilling out the sentences for the doom of mankind's independence. China is showing us the path: great towering stinking shithole slum cities with rickety apartment complexes where hueman biomass is shoved into it like cattle in a pen, prodded into their wageslave existence and then to die a malnourished, wimpy, pathetic rodent never having experienced the power of a strong body, freedom, the comradeship of freeman and the wild winds of adventure.

Neetcheetos threads are always shit-tier, no exceptions.

>>18672244
>germanic values

you always forget this, tards. Clearly none of you 'it's the jooooos' ever read Jung or any serious german philosophy that is not scholasticism

>>18676866
You offered nothing but stupidity.

>>18676849
hi BAP :)

>>18676874
It isn't only Jewish philosophy you moron, but pretending Semitic influences do not exist and have not had a significant impact on Western culture is completely moronic. You must be American, because only Americans are stupid enough to say such pointless drivel. Nobody here is going to clap when you say the "correct" phrases that your professor told you to recite verbatim. Americans should be totally rangebanned.

>>18673582
Best post itt. Pseuds that just wanna argue ignored this, funny

>>18676893
I did ignore it, I must confess. Now though you've peaked my interest and I'm going to give it a read

>>18676900
It's the best way to live in order cope with the turn of events of modern history imo. Most other mindsets claiming to be "self-aware" are hollow.

>>18672244
Imagine getting blackpilled over a misreading of kneechee.

>>18676046
You don't understand the overman at all. Please refrain from posting.

>>18672244
OP reeks of a slave, which isn't inherently wrong, but your refusal to come to terms with yourself, AND your delusions about being a master, are very much so.
After all, bad-faith is what you're actually talking about.

>>18675927
Seethe harder. When you actually read Nietzsche come back.
>>18676081
Proving the point.
>>18676091
Completely misinterpreting what I mean by greatness.
>>18676117
Literal distraction by race, precisely the point I argue against.

Again I am reminded of why philosophy never works in practice. Leave it to seething /pol/-tards to absolutely misinterpret anything that comes under their nose. Godspeed and good luck, you'll need a lot of it to get out of your basements.

>>18675238
He wanted to create a new morality. Well he couldn't, man couldn't. This is the job of the overman of the future.

>>18676302
>>18676357
He wasn't a drug addict, Neech would probably praise Hitler for being a great leader while still being critical of his Anti-Semetism.
If Hitler won the war, Neech would be ESPECIALLY impressed and consider him a higher man.

I think he would prefer Mussolini more ideologically however, but Musso was not as competent of a leader as Hitler.
Neech would probably like Lenin too, even though he was a collectivist. The bolsbevik party was just Lenin's will to power, really.

might makes right faggot

>>18672244
oh no the dog fucking civilization will never be reborn

>>18673442
He loved the jews.

>>18675461
Idk. Killing babies and having gay sex sounds pretty based and trad.

>>18679629
>Neech would probably praise Hitler for being a great leader
"Art thou pure air and solitude and bread and medicine to thy friend? Many a one cannot loosen his own fetters, but is nevertheless his friend’s emancipator.
Art thou a slave? Then thou canst not be a friend. Art thou a tyrant? Then thou canst not have friends."

"Let the future and the furthest be the motive of thy today; in thy friend shalt thou love the Superman as thy motive"

"And this heard I secondly: Whatever cannot obey itself, is commanded. Such is the nature of living things.
This, however, is the third thing which I heard—namely, that commanding is more difficult than obeying. And not only because the commander beareth the burden of all obeyers, and because this burden readily crusheth him:"

"A light hath dawned upon me: I need companions—living ones; not dead companions and corpses, which I carry with me where I will.
But I need living companions, who will follow me because they want to follow themselves—and to the place where I will."
(Thus Spoke Zarathustra)

"The more general and unconditional the influence of an individual or an individual's thought can be, the more homogeneous and the lower must the mass be that is influenced, <...>. Conversely, one may always infer a high level of culture when powerful and domineering natures only manage to have a slight and sectarian influence: this is also true of the individual arts and the areas of knowledge. Where there is ruling, there are masses; where there are masses, there is a need for slavery. Where there is slavery, there are few individuals, and these have herd instincts and conscience against them. " (Gay Science, 149)


Nietzsche would have been impressed only if the whole society consisted solely of Hitlers, Mussolinis and Lenins, as opposed to the rabble, whom those controlled.

>>18679652
Sure, poor little thrasymachus.

>>18672949
>Captcha: MY MAN
Maaaan I just realized how I missed captchaposting

>>18680329
None of those passages you posted indicate that Nietzsche wanted a society of nothing but overmen. In fact, the last one reinforces the opposite idea: that the overmen REQUIRE obedient slaves. And wouldn't a society of nothing but overmen be ridiculous? Practically speaking, overmen need undermen in order to exist at all. Nietzsche talks about this on multiple occasions and implies it in countless others.

And then there's this passage from Will to Power, which is published in all modern editions of it (i.e. in editions that scholars collectively now agree no longer have any tampering from his sister):

>Good Europeans that we are—what distinguishes us above the men of fatherlands?—First, we are atheists and immoralists, but for the present we support the religions and moralities of the herd instinct: for these prepare a type of man that must one day fall into our hands, that must desire our hands. Beyond good and evil—but we demand that herd morality should be held sacred unconditionally.

The democratic reading of Nietzsche that thinks he wanted his own philosophy to be applied to all members of society is simply untenable with his philosophy.

>>18681532
>And wouldn't a society of nothing but overmen be ridiculous?
"True enough, it succeeds in isolated and individual cases in various parts of the earth and under the most widely different cultures, and in these cases a higher type certainly manifests itself; something which, compared to mankind in the mass, appears as a sort of superman. Such happy strokes of high success have always been possible, and will remain possible, perhaps, for all time to come. Even whole races, tribes and nations may occasionally represent such lucky accidents." (Antichrist, 4)


>overmen REQUIRE obedient slaves.
"A right is a privilege. Every one enjoys the privileges that accord with his state of existence. Let us not underestimate the privileges of the mediocre." (Antichrist, 57)

"And often have they been good servants and worthy of their hire. For thus saith virtue: “If thou must be a servant, seek him unto whom thy service is most useful!
The spirit and virtue of thy master shall advance by thou being his servant: thus wilt thou thyself advance with his spirit and virtue!”
And verily, ye famous wise ones, ye servants of the people! Ye yourselves have advanced with the people’s spirit and virtue—and the people by you! To your honour do I say it!" (Thus spoke Zarathustra)

"Wherever I found a living thing, there found I Will to Power; and even in the will of the servant found I the will to be master"
"And where there is sacrifice and service and love-glances, there also is the will to be master. By by-ways doth the weaker then slink into the fortress, and into the heart of the mightier one—and there stealeth power." (Thus spoke Zarathustra)

"He who is unavoidably dependent upon some master ought to possess something by which he can inspire his master with fear, and keep him in check: integrity, for example, or probity, or an evil tongue." (Dawn, 260)


To clarify: not OBEDIENT slaves. WILLFUL servants, who serve because this is the way they can actualize their potential for their own growth. Slaves are overmen too.


>The democratic reading
It's not democratic. Different people express their greatness differently.

"Likewise Heroic.—To do things of the worst possible odour, things of which we scarcely dare to speak, but which are nevertheless useful and necessary, is also heroic. The Greeks were not ashamed of numbering even the cleansing of a stable among the great tasks of Hercules." (Dawn, 430)


>Practically speaking, overmen need undermen in order to exist at all.
"Open still remaineth the earth for great souls. Empty are still many sites for lone ones and twain ones, around which floateth the odour of tranquil seas.
Open still remaineth a free life for great souls. Verily, he who possesseth little is so much the less possessed: blessed be moderate poverty!" (Thus spoke Zarathustra)

"Endurance of Poverty.—There is one great advantage in noble extraction: it makes us endure poverty better." (Dawn, 200)

Overmen are self-sufficient.

good thread

>>18682899
>Even whole races, tribes and nations may occasionally represent such lucky accidents.
An example for him here would be the Greeks, but even the Greeks as a race and culture required slavery. Read Nietzsche's The Greek State where he acknowledged this.

>Slaves are overmen too.
Rather, one's chains do not prevent one from being an overman (like Prometheus, who remained a god even when chained to the rock). That doesn't mean that everyone is their own overman. Zarathustra wouldn't have distinguished between the higher humans and the overman if everyone was overmen.

>Different people express their greatness differently.
That doesn't mean Nietzsche was in favor of doing away with slavery / servitude / wealth disparity in general. Up until his final days Theognis remained a powerful influence on him. If you aren't arguing this then you can ignore what I'm saying here.

Perhaps it wasn't a democratic reading but a liberal reading, since it's the liberal's (pipe) dream that one day every member of society will be self-sufficient and above herd mentality.

>>18673838
it was nothing remotely like rome

>>18672828
lel no.

>>18679629
>He wasn't a drug addict, Neech would probably praise Hitler for being a great leader while still being critical of his Anti-Semetism.
Why do people always remark someone Anti.Semitism while never mentioning who the Jews have made the most important tenent of their creed their hatred and disrespect from everyone elses identity and Sacredness?

And furthermore
>"Anti_x"
Aren't these conceptualizations
the very Weapons of Shrewdness that Nietzche warns of?

>I want every anti-semite shot
uhh nazi bros....

>>18675884
modernist, not modern, you fucking moron

>>18673490
Virtus (virtue, virility, veracity), pietas (piety, duty, loyalty, devotion, respect, obedience), fides (fidelity, faithfulness, trustworthiness), ratio (reason, rationality). They rejected lots of pathos and looked more to ethos.

>>18672949
Nice

>>18672244
>an attempt was made in the 20th century in an major event to once again reinstate roman values, this failed and got defeated
Imagine thinking Hitlerism wasn't jewish values.

>>18675884
>>fascism is as modernist as it gets despite how much they claim to be harbingers of tradition and heroic values
> That just makes it more efficient. What matters is that it was a vehement reaction against the prevailing surroundings of the time.
Yeah, like money, commodity, capital accumulation, wage labor, finance, stock market, r-r-r-right?

>>18672831
>>18676405
This, and especially since it's shit since at least the 16th century. I cant stand these retard faggot glorifying a time when Capital accumulation was already the engine of society.

>>18675273
As we all know, Africa is a utopia.

Shut up dork
>boohoo I don't get to die a pointless death for my Legate's ego
>tfw no femboy bf when I come back
>my feet hurt
>tries to rape and pillage, btfo'd by some naked screaming man with a knife
>blackpilled again

>>18672244
Accept nietzsche lost and move on?
Read mitchell heisman's suicide note if you want to see what the next great conflict will be.

>>18675280
Pic is pretty good but i'd get rid of the pictures at the bottom.

>>18675546
You are a joke