/lit/ - Literature

yeah

wtf does he really say that?

I couldn't find anything in Symbolic Exchange and Death but I did find this in Fatal Strategies

>>18675617
needless to say you didn't quite grasp what he was getting at

>>18675620
In a sense we could say that the system cannot suffer a ‘real’ death in any case, not only because it is not a discrete, finite organism but because, in Baudrillard’s terminology, it is already dead, it has no genuine life or vitality and is kept alive only be its life support systems of simulation. The vampiric nature of capitalism was, of course, already a prominent feature of the Marxist critique (Marx Capital Vol. 1). For Baudrillard, the capitalist system does not only draw the life-blood of its exploited workers, it condemns its citizen-consumers to a life-less survival, a living-on in a state of humiliation and dependence, a ‘life’ that is shaped by the system, a life that is made to seem a gift of the system. Though suicide is expressly forbidden by both religious and secular law, that is the system exerts ownership over our death as well as our life, the point of biological termination does represent the absolute limit of the system’s control. Given these conditions the only fundamental strategy of defiance, for Baudrillard, is to reverse this humiliation, to refuse the ‘gifts’ and imprecations, to reverse this derisory life through a symbolic death hurled back at the system. This may takethe form of the reversal of the poisonous gifts of consumer goods and information through a greater counter-gift of “hyper-conformity”: the absorbing of anything and everything the system gives while refusing the proper use of these ‘gifts’. One example given by Baudrillard is obesity, the indiscriminate absorption of food to a degree that becomes a social problem; this involves a (literally) internal revolt against the cult of physical fitness and the body beautiful, a rejection of the injunction to compulsory sexuality and sexual enjoyment (Baudrillard 1990b: 27-34).

>>18675643
>obesity, the indiscriminate absorption of food to a degree that becomes a social problem; this involves a (literally) internal revolt against the cult of physical fitness and the body beautiful, a rejection of the injunction to compulsory sexuality and sexual enjoyment
okay well you left out the part that they were rebelling against looking good and getting laid

>>18675617
>>18675620
This is hysterical. Baudrillard was a masterful troll. This entire passage is a dig against American culture. Monstrous pontentiality with no release.

>>18675617
>>18675620
holy fuck

>>18675617
>>18675620
koreanspicynoodleplattermukbangfatguy.bmp

I think fat girls are sexy. At least the ones with good faces.

>>18675620
Holy shit, God bless Baudrillard

>>18675617
Kek

>>18675617
>>18675620
this is nonsensical drivel, absolutely meaningless garbage

>>18678166
cope amerifat

>>18678166
>he doesn't know

>>18678166
fetal and obese hands typed this post

>>18678166
midwit, midwit, nananana booboo~

>>18678179
>>18678198
>>18678209
>>18678221
Don't get me wrong, I think fats should be put in work camps or exterminated, but this is ridiculous

If this thread gets to 50 replies I'll write some disturbing short fiction about a fat dude.

>>18678379
you didn't laugh? this is hilarious

>>18678166
>>18678379
imagine being this IQ, I couldn't

>>18678379
Baudrillard has insulted amerifats in the most profound way possible: they don't even understand it translated into their own language

>>18675617
now THIS is shizo posting

>>18678546
OHNONONONO

>>18678546
kek

>>18678399
can you title it "Rebel"? can we make this a meme?

>>18675617
>>18675620
The french should never have been allowed anywhere near philosophy.

>>18675620
>placental obesity
And here I thought Baudrillard wasn’t one of the pseuds

>>18675617
>>18675620
They are just stupid.

>>18675617
>>18675620
This is literally a bunch of nonsense.

>>18679976
dude he is just an epic prankster bro, philosophers are like 4chan posters literary me

>>18675309
Why yes, I do like... rebellious women

>>18678166
t. weighs 200 kilograms

>>18680010
Shart and seethe all you like, Disneylander

>>18675620
> Europeans will say this is good because it mentions Americans disparaging
Sad really

>>18680412
t. pregnant with his own body

>>18675643
> counter-gift of “hyper-conformity”: the absorbing of anything and everything the system gives while refusing the proper use of these ‘gifts’.

>>18675617
Now show them what he says about the paraplegic. I fucking love this guy

>>18675617
>>18675620

Absolutely Gnostic.

>>18675643
>to reverse this humiliation, to refuse the ‘gifts’ and imprecations, to reverse this derisory life through a symbolic death hurled back at the system.
but this is no longer the case the "cult of physical fitness and the body beautiful" it seems is more and more rejected by the system.
also this can apply to a certain towel sewing forum:
>absorbing anything and everything the system gives while refusing the proper use of these ‘gifts’.

>>18675617
>>18675620

Found a buttpirated pdf. It ain't gonna read itself: https://archive.org/details/fatalstrategies0000baud

>>18675617
>>18675620
>haha le epic philosopher using complex words to say “Americans fat and freedumb” so based XD
zoomers get impressed by any post on here with >100 words

>>18681085
is it in Fatal Strategies?

>>18681105
literally the only reply that hints at a genuine understanding of Baudrillard

>>18681143
but it's not what he is saying dummy the fats are an example for larger issues such as the 'symbolic death' they represent

A good litmus test for judging literature is to see how well it'd translate to other languages. You'll find that non-pseud authors generally make lavish use of similes and metaphors, to make their prose more illustrious and easier to understand instead of shitting it up with posh vocabulary.

>>18681232
iirc Baudrillard was brought up in some potato-eating peasant family and based his whole thought on playing with words

>>18680358
rebel women soft, man hard that's just basic architecture

>>18681085
cant find it on the interwebs gib soc

>>18681116

Oh shit, it's a limited thingy. Can someone post a damn pdf already?

>>18681116
>>18681325

Never mind, here: https://libgen.is/search.php?req=baudrillard+fatal+strategies&open=0&res=25&view=simple&phrase=1&column=def

>>18675617
>>18675620
I hate fat people and I hate americans. But this is just the typical continental "philosophy" drivel that doesn't really say anything.
He's essentially trying to make some sort of connection between obese people, cities, and big data systems, in the sense that they are all self-expanding. But this connection is tepid and superficial, and it doesn't really mean anything. The 3 things aren't caused by the same secret "logic" Baudrillard thinks he's discovered. Again, it's all just drivel.

>>18675617
Reads like a /lit/ shitpost lmfao

>>18681363

Straight from the Gospel of Philip.

>>18675620
I see so he’s using lardos as a metaphor for the post-modern condition

>>18678399
50+ replies, bro. Write that fat fiction pls.

>>18681400
>Again, it's all just drivel.
And you're just pregnant with the Sears-Roebuck catalogue.

>>18680358
>>18681255
kek

>>18675643
Most retarded thing I’ve ever read. Doubt this faggot could even define “the system” outside of delusional anthropomorphic projections: the system wants this or that ...control, expansion, etc. blah blah blah.

>>18675617
>>18675620
truly a philosopher is just a failed poet

>>18681432
>Sears-Roebuck catalogue.
I don't even know what that is but alright.

>>18681457
America's former mail-order behemoth, was contemporary to Baudrillard and the sources he was using like Vance Packard. You used to be able to order a house from Sears as if it were a model kit, except it was literally the materials needed to build the real thing.

>>18681400
He thinks they are though. The "obeseifying" and self-destruction of systems is a result of reversibility to Baudrillard. Reversibility is a "rule of the game", aka Baudrillard is a gnostic.

>>18681400
imagine thinking thinking you can make some sort of a connection between caves, prisoners, and the structure of reality lol Plato is just postmodern nonsense drivel pseudobabble

>>18681208
It’s gibberish retard. Europeans and Latins are pathetic to be honest, but Europeans especially. They’re so desperate to seethe at and own the Americans that they’re totally confirmation not only inhabiting their shadow just so they can toss rocks at the shadow caster, but the complete total wreckage of their museum hall of a culture, philosophy, standards, and logic itself just for the petty own. It is literal gobbledygook bullshit and to elevate it is beyond retarded. It is pathetic.

>>18675617
wtf
this is why I need "explainer books for 125IQ braincels"

>>18681544
>Plato
>postmodern
Anon....

>>18681586
this isn't even hard to read why are you all coping so hard? could it really be possible there are this many fat Americans on lit?

>>18681597
I heard Kant talks about God in relation to shepards ummm doesn't he know they don't stem from the same logic? Kant is just postmodern schizo babble nonsense

>>18681544
>being this much of a retard
and it's only fucking monday, lads. buckle up, this will be retard week. ss this.

>>18681622
Do you know Einstein talks about TRAINS in relation to space-time? That's post modern schizo babble, totally superficial, trains and space-time aren't even caused by the same logic.

>>18681597
Not getting metaphor is a sure sign. Maybe I should take the week off as well.

>>18681647
>Maybe I should take the week off as well.
Probably for the best of everyone.

>>18681363
>>18681416

LIGHT ITSELF AS YALDABAOTH'S MODUS OPERANDI, NOT AS THE CATHOLIC FATHER'S ANCHOR OF PARTICIPATION IN THE PHENOMENAL WORLD FROM WHICH EVIL ONLY RELATIVELY IS - DARKNESS - BUT AS THE PROMINENT EVIL ITSELF.

Just found out Leibniz compared consciousness to a windmill, wtf? That's a totally superficial connection. Doesn't he know they aren't created by the same logic? Just another postmodern philosopher shouting nonsense schizobabble drivel nobody can understand

>>18681513
>The "obeseifying" and self-destruction of systems is a result of reversibility to Baudrillard. Reversibility is a "rule of the game".
And what arguments does he actually provide for this?

>>18681544
>imagine thinking thinking you can make some sort of a connection between caves, prisoners, and the structure of reality
The allegory of the cave isn't an argument for the Forms though, it's just a poetical illustration.

>>18681696
I get that you're upset he called out Americans for being mpreg fetishists but the proof is in the pudding.

>>18681363
>>18681416
>>18681662

>ww.jpg
>ww2.jpg

>>18681696
>The allegory of the cave isn't an argument for the Forms though
except he literally calls the sun outside the cave the form of the good which illuminates all other forms, nice try bozo. he's a postmodern drivel spewer. No American could understand him

>>18675617
>>18675620
I prefer Norman in The Broom of the System.

>>18681739
>No American could understand him
Of course not, they are obese R E B E L S.

>>18681363
>>18681416
>>18681662
>>18681730

Note the P R O P H E T I C actuality. DEAD BAUDRILLARD IS MORE AWARE THAN LIVING BAUDRILLARD, OBVIOUS CHRISTOLOGICAL RESONANCES.

>>18681363
>>18681416
>>18681662
>>18681730
>>18681770

>>18681770
Saint JayBaudz, patron of shitposters, pray for us.

>>18675617
>>18675620

You omitted the exquisite finale.

>>18682003
>when the body loses its rule
R E B E L
E
B
E
L

>>18675617
>>18675620
>>18682003

AND the victory lap.

>>18681451
google post-structuralism you illiterate

>>18682003
>>18682050

HE JUST KEEPS GOING.

>>18682064
I know what it is. Doesn't make these ramblings anymore comprehensible.

>>18681598
The fact that you think the issue here is whether it’s “hard to read” really just illustrated how right I am.

>>18682127
what is it about psueds where they think words like "babble", "nonsense", "drivel", "ramblings" ect. mean something? saying something is a ramble isn't an argument. You aren't demonstrating anything about the content of the work you are literally coping

>>18682134
>gibberish
see
>>18682140

>>18682140
it is an easy way for them to dismiss arguments complex enough that they can't be stated in simple language. it's why analytic philosophy is so full of midwits

I read first thing when I wake up, last thing when I go to bed, and I carry a book with me everywhere so I read when I’m waiting, in the bathroom, have any downtime. That’s a minimum of 2-3 chapters per day automatically.

>>18682050
>americans are so fat they can't use a mirror

was baudrillard the most based post-modernist philosopher? seems like the one with more solid reasoning (well, maybe deleuze pre-guatarri as well)

>>18682140
Dictionary
Definitions from Oxford Languages
driv·el
/ˈdrivəl/
noun
nonsense.
"don't talk such drivel!"

Would you also like to look up the teen “irony” or the phrase “pot calling the kettle black”?

>>18682158
Summarize the argument in whatever language you’d like.

>>18681363
>>18681416
>>18681662
>>18681730
>>18681770
>>18681817
>>18682003
>>18682050
>>18682080

Correctly identifying prescriptive individualism as tyrannical.

Why aren't you rebelposting, bros? Let's rebelpost
>>>18682061
>>>18682061

>>18682201

Note that he almost spells out that that onto or by which you are called to "self-actualize" is THE CROSS.

>>18682050
OHONONONO HOW WILL AMERICANS EVER RECOVER???

>>18681696
>And what arguments does he actually provide for this?
None. It's the basic contradiction in his system. Why can't I just say Baudrillard has been tricked by the evil demon he posits in thinking reversibility exists? His philosophy is garbage.

>>18682196
no one can be this fucking retarded you are larping

>>18682223
>Why can't I just say Baudrillard has been tricked by the evil demon he posits in thinking reversibility exists?
this is your brain on American lipids

>>18682223
The only demon you've been tricked by are Devil Dogs

>>18675309
Why do fatties turn me on so much? Especially those that have this mentality, because deep down they know that they are wrong and hate themselves as much as any fat slob does. It's so fun to slowly torture them psychologically, pretend that you are on their side at first until they fully trust you, then slowly reveal that you think less of them because of their body until their buried down anxiety comes out and completely destroys their self esteem. Chads of /lit/ I really recommend you to go with a fat girl/boy at least once, they are so easy to break.

>>18681416
>>18681662
>>18681730
>>18681770
>>18681817
>>18682003
>>18682050
>>18682080
>>18682201

Reply, bitches.

>>18682339
>they are so easy to break

>>18682340

Exchange is impossible!

>>18682394
>Here in modern America we do things a liiiittle bit different. We love breaking some rebels!

>>18682394
rent free

>>18675309
its just ego stroking, i fucking hate that stuff. its just a thing where writers get full of themselves and start using loose symbolism to impose false depth to there works. then other writers dont want to look stupid so they do it too. honestly ideas like this are very harmful to stupid people, they'll believe it.

>>18682140
Because it is actual nonsense. Define "the system" what is it? If you can't explain it, then just admit that it's word diarrhea.
Anyone can write this bullshit that sounds profound but has no real content:
>the maturbator evinces an excess of subjectivity, an excess which necessarily blisters over into the rapture of a destruction. In actuality the maturbator demonstrates the incoherence of the system which categorizes via the semblances which determine it. But it is in the act of jizzing that there is re-claimed the possibility of an act which defies the hyper-categorization of signs; an act which ends in a chaos, an overload revealing the mimicry of inflation of the signifier, the repetition of signs with no other object. Here there is the false pretense of a unseen escape, of a destruction that reaches its culmination upon the eruption of cum from my dick. The entropic necessity of jizzing rejects the monopoly of violence implicit to the system, however yet in the destructive wake re-establishes the limits which had previously contained it.

Etc. etc.

>>18682560
Baudry's text make sense. Yours doesn't. That's the difference.

>>18681513
Baudrillard is a Kantian with Nietzschean tendencies. He plays with structures and representations because he knows they aren’t inherent to whatever is out of our senses.

>>18682560
the fact you think he is just using random words already confirms to me you are too low IQ to understand this stuff. it must be pretty sad. not only to be unable to understand the content but to be so insecure about your failings as to accuse it of being meaningless. turns out plenty of scholars can understand and draw value from this work, even anons itt are getting a kick out of it. now, what is more likely, all these people are lying to you, or you got filtered? think about it.

>>18682340
>>18682429

>>18682560
You almost had something there. I think if you read the material more carefully and cover less of your screen with your American frankfurter fingers you could really nail the mimesis and give the non-WALL-E-fied denizens of /lit/ a sensible chuckle. Consider how the erection from manual autoeroticism actually reproduces the pornographic circuit, not just in its expenditure but complete sterilization of sexuality. The moneyshot did not take place.

Regarding Baudrillard's Gnosticism and his unimpeachably correct argument that Marxism and Capitalism are two sides of the same coin:

I maintain that both Marxism and Capitalism are nothing but Catholicism: it is not the Ontology of the Material, of plurality, that informs the Epistemology of Dispensation, it is the Epistemology of Dispensation that informs the Ontology of the Material. Without plurality there is no exchange, without exchange there is neither Marxism nor Capitalism, they are both animated by the fact that exchange, per the plurality of Materialism, is purportedly sanctioned by God himself, per the Catholic idea of Dispensation.

>Renounce all unknowing, that ye may be worthy of the mysteries of the Light and be saved from the servitors of Yaldabaōth and the fire-seas.

This is some impressive samefagging.

>>18681429
Give me a minute, I've got shit to do. I'll definitely get it done, though, before midnight tonight.

>>18683242
Based. I'm glad you're keeping your word.

Was Baudrillard a proto-/pol/tard bros?

>>18683309
no, you're just a fat retard

>>18682340
>>18682956

Got to page 125 today, finishing it tomorrow. Really good stuff.

>>18683055
cope

bump

>>18684114
keep it alive for obesefictionfag

How about this fat people are retarded high time preference people with 0 self control and they are an aesthetic nightmare on the eyes. There I btfo'd fat people in a way that didn't need to be so autistic.

>>18678399
>>18683242
As promised:

https://rentry.co/7igdv

>>18684474
top kek. well done.

>>18684474
Mason the R E B E L

>>18684474
kek ty for delivery

>>18675617
>>18675620
Jean of Arc, the Guillotine, and Baudillard's Bantz are the only thing I could present as evidence to why the French shouldn't be annihilated.
>>18681143
>>18681586
I'm going to ruin it, but the joke is that fat people are such pigs they've decided to not only consume space, but human dignity, among other things. There, you get the fucking point now

>>18685167
Why do you think annihilation is something that can be decided upon by ones favor?

>>18685176
If I, myself, were given the decision and mandate by some celestial power on which three or four nations to preserve and have the rest wiped off the face of the planet under threat that if I didn't all would be destroyed, I would have to have a metric on what's worth keeping and what's worth letting go now wouldn't I?
I meant it more as a joke than anything. As a burger I have to rib on Europe somehow, you know?

>>18685209
Sure, but is favor the optimal catalyst for deciding judgement? I'd lean towards Justice.

>>18685231
I never said France was worth sparing, only that those three things are in it's favor. Quality and things like that can function in the deciding of judgement, but of course it is not the optimal standard.
I am aware that I am a mere mortal, even moreso autistic, man, and as such my ability to judge is flawed, my perspective limited. Only, say, God or to a lesser degree something with celestial perspective can judge perfectly, we as men are only given to a fragment of such a thing.
Sometimes a judgement is cut and dry. Do not rape, do not murder, do not steal, these are simple rules of which every man by every faith can abide by. But the way in which people twist cause, effect, and personal culpability by proximity makes it harder to discern, and thus given to degrees of subjectivity.
I am curious, though, by what measure of justice you consider the catalyst for judgement.

>>18685231
What is justice if not the favor of the gods?

>>18685258
>do not murder
Hmm. In my faith, Hatred is murder in the heart and is judged the same.
I believe in perfect justice, God given justice.

>>18685268
I just couldn't waste a good opportunity to quote Boondock Saints, and the case of something like self defense, or in defense of another, isn't murder so much as a justified killing under the laws of men.
I agree, however, that God is the source of all things good, perfected justice included.

>>18675617
>>18675620
I need to pick up a copy of this book. This is actually a novel take on the obesity issue I haven't come across before. Pretty interesting. I own America and Simulacra and liked those too.

>>18685290

Here: >>18681363

>>18682340

NONE of you queers have ANYTHING to say?

>>18682717
>is there good sex somewhere
of course not or I'd be missing out

>>18683342

Resuming now. Prepare for MORE excerpts.

>>18687794

Conceding that free will as forcefully bolted onto free action is an abomination and Dialectically turning to Protestant predestination for a modicum of dignity, as I myself have recently said.

>>18687837

As keen as a Spartan hound.

>>18687837
>>18687863

Note the distinction between Gnosticism and Buddhism, both Mahayana and Theravada, even the former's derision of the Subject is enunciated, not to mention perfumed, in a way simply inconceivable from the latter's vulgarity.

>>18687837
>>18687863
>>18688433
>how many layers of christology are you on?

>>18675309

>>18687837
>>18687863
>>18688433
>>18688491

>>18687837
>>18687863
>>18688433
>>18688491
>>18688582

>>18687837
>>18687863
>>18688433
>>18688491
>>18688582
>>18688706

>>18675617
>>18675620
this is the funniest thing i have ever read

bump

>>18690680

Re-re-re-re-conquering France was a mistake

>>18675309
Here's a better explanation: >>18691553

>>18675617
>>18675620
Nono, he might be on to something. Deep down in the well insulated intestines of their consciousness the American people realize their direction is wrong. That the malignant grow is unsustainable and yet, what birthed human raised and thouroughly domesticated into adult infancy would actively rebel? No one, this is an unconscious revolution!

>>18675617
>>18675620
This has a tone somewhere between Swift and Rabelais, and makes me think he missed his mode, if not his calling. Spectacular.

>>18681322
>'The paralytic in his wheelchair embodies the virtual reality of movement'

That is from Fragments. There are others but can't recall where

>>18688791
So seduction is another word for anti-production? Seduce where? Who is doing the seduction? What is the end-game of seduction? I feel he flipped the idea of power/desire as a unilateral subterranean force and replaced it with this idea of seduction which is a play of appearances or closures/disclosures.

>>18675617
>>18675620
Uhh Ameribros? How will we ever recover?

>>18693661
it's literally over for muricans

>>18688791
this is brilliant

>>18693661
Don't know about you but whenever I get btfo I get two whoppers with cheese, a large onion rings, and a king sized fountain soda.

>>18688791

Finishing it today. Enjoy this Baudrillardean theory of school shootings in the meantime:

An anticonspiracy: the foreboding of the Columbine shooting most likely pertained to a prank or a theatrical event planned by the students, also, by 2012, school shooting drills were commonplace. Preemptive medical examinations are probably the "cause" of many illnesses: benign congenital defects that turn malignant once probed, minor afflictions that would quickly remit were it not for treatment, afflictions projected from the doctor's mind, etc. Perhaps school shootings are akin to such intrusions, of the seemingly sterile event into the seemingly healthy body, simply put, when armed men enter a school under the pretense of a drill something truly bad happens akin to a benign congenital defect turning malignant upon probing, or vice-versa, the genuinely healthy body readily throwing itself into the potentiality for affliction might itself constitute an affliction, immediately somatized in a bodily affliction.

Where are my R E B E L S?

>>18694389
You called?

>>18693941

I have to say, it starts going off the rails somewhere in The Object and Its Destiny, devolves into inane, not to mention motivated, "analysis" about..."an arbitrary Ontology that is no longer being observed and that's bad because it being arbitrary is good and like we should totally like "become like the object" because...uhh I just remembered that I'm French". The first half of the book, from which I posted all the excerpts above is totally alien to the second. Sad.

>>18694543
I KNEEL

>>18694389
'Ate diets
'Ate exercise
'Ate the simulacrumbs
Simple as

>>18675617
WHEN'S THE FUCKING THREAD COMING MOTHERFUCKER GET AN AIR CONDITIONER

>tfw rebel
it's over

Stop samefagging and bumping your gay thread