/lit/ - Literature

>>18664930
It's not idolatries you retard.
Also:
>Because there is one loaf, we, who are many, are one body, for we all share the one loaf
Sounds non-dual to me.

>>18664949
>It's not idolatries
Advaita literally approves of giving worship to creatures (human gurus, lesser hinduistic "gods", etc.).
>Sounds non-dual to me.
Non-duality is about seeing "duality" as an "illusion". In Christianity there is still non-illusory distinction among us even within our unity with Christ.

>>18664949
>Non-duality is about seeing "duality" as an "illusion". In Christianity there is still non-illusory distinction among us even within our unity with Christ.
very well
>Advaita literally approves of giving worship to creatures (human gurus, lesser hinduistic "gods", etc.).
I don't know about this, the buddha did not teach any form of worship however.

>>18664965
So? It's not like Yahweh isn't just a minor deity or something. I mean for fuck's sake he gets schooled on by iron chariots.

>>18664930
There is no God but Allah, and Muhammad is his messenger.

He is Allah, [who is] One.
Allah, the Eternal Refuge.
He neither begets nor is born,
Nor is there to Him any equivalent

To God belong the East and the West; whithersoever you turn, there is the Face of God; God is All-embracing, All-knowing.

You can't get more non-dualist than this. You are a manichean heretic.

>>18665239
Redpill me on Yahweh. Is he God/Allah/Brahman?

>>18664930
What does any of this have to do with non-dualism?

>>18666089
Nothing, he is going schizo mode if he doesn't attack non-dualists for one day. Very few Guenon/Shankara threads lately, he must be fuming.

>>18664930
>gnosticism
>non-dualism
You're a retard.

>>18664930
Incredibly retarded thread. Listen to Franco Battiato.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7ae9RRpp0sI

>>18664930
>Esotericism, Gnosticism
Because they're the truth.
Nondualism is wrong though.

>>18664930
>/lit/erature on how to fight this impulse in the West and return the young people to a better state for their soul?
Thanks for letting us know off the bat that you're looking to proselytize instead of being interested in a genuine discussion. A major thing which attracts me to Vedic descendant religions is the conspicuous lack of denominational, establishmentarian ideologues preaching doctrinal supremacy. Additionally, I find that more overtly deistic religions' conception of higher power can be pretty easily and neatly compatibilized with the core of Vedic thought once you strip away the superfluous structures of power which have sprung up around other religions – most notably, for example, the Catholic Church. Really, once you get rid of all that opportunistic, purely-human garbage, you find that deistic God can actually be subsumed entirely under the more rigorous ontology of the Vedas.

>>18664930
>While he who worships another god thinking, 'He is one, and I am another' does not know. He is like an animal to the god.
Brihadaranyaka Upanishad (1.4.10) irrevocably refutes any form of dualism.

>>18666726
That's not a refutation, it's a statement of opinion.

>>18666733
The Upanishads are not opinions, but formulations of truth.

>>18666740
That's a statement of opinion. And you're a retard (this is a formulation of truth).

>>18666746
No. Try harder

>>18666760
no u

>>18664930
You'd need to start with replacing the jew death cult with our ancestors faith

>>18664930
It's basically one delusional schizo retard and a handful of zoomers who don't understand Guenon but like him anyway.

>Why are so many young people on this board so obsessed with
Seeing through lies and finding something closer to truth? Bc the karma they are is more ripe than the karma you are. Better luck next time. Keep learning.

>>18664930
>They don't believe what I believe
>Ohnoes
Just another shit thread that has nothing to do with /lit/

Looks like the seething zoomers have woken up.

Avoid the advaita psyop like the plague.

>>18667148

>>18667152

>>18667154

>>18664930
The non-dualist trend here is the best thing to happen to /lit/. Dualism is what leads people to become terrified of death, which ends up making them live their lives in constant fear.

>>18667159
>philosophy generally
Why? You can avoid the trad meme and read good philosophy.

As a rule, monistic religion has little or no attraction for those who definitely believe in God and for those who definitely do not believe in God, but those who have not resolved the question as to whether they believe in God or not are often attracted to it, because it offers a simple solution to their dilemma, and which seems to leave them at no disadvantage in relation to those with orthodox convictions. In a similar way, the hard alternatives of either personal immortality in the next life or personal extinction can also be similarly avoided by a conception of divinization which is in effect a compromise between the two, and which, from a personal point of view is a quasi-survival.

>>18667161
This is complete bullshit. Nondualism made me depressed back when I got into it, and realizing dualism was true was the most liberating moment I've had in the past decade.

>>18667154
How does Kashmir Shivaism fix the problems of Advita? Or is that now what was being implied here?

One significant fact about both monists and non-dualists is that they both conclude that the phenomenal world is illusory as a consequence of their premise that only the Infinite is real. This is obviously a logical deduction, one which shows that they too believe that reason rules even at the highest levels of reality. Otherwise, if supra-forma and supra-natural reality was beyond logic as such, they would be able to affirm both the reality of the world and the exclusive reality of the Infinite at the same time, and never mind the contradiction. The fact that they will not do this a good indication that they only object to logic when it does not serve their purposes. The doctrine of illusion is admitted to be contradictory, but in that case it is accepted by its proponents.

Scientific materialism and mystical impersonalism are alike in the way they avoid belief in God and idolize something created to fill the gap. In the one case, this created divinity is world-order devised by consciousness, and in the other it is an elevated consciousness, and though these two sects may despise one another and appear to outsiders as opposite extremes, what they have in common is more important than their differences. Their denial of both God and personality, and their worship of intelligence in one form or another are of the essence of the modern mentality.

>>18667170
>Nondualism made me depressed back when I got into it?
I find this surprising. Who were you reading?

>>18667170
>>18667181
Those who are attracted by such beliefs usually cannot resist equating the non-dual state with some preconceived idea of what they think it must be like. The mere fact of its verbal expression must give rise to a mental formation which is radically adverse to common sense.

This privation or ‘reality deficit’ must itself be made absolute along with the consciousness itself. Consequently, one has no alternative but to identify with this negation, since a personal God is excluded along with any other reality outside one’s consciousness. The positive function of consciousness cannot balance this because all it can do is focus one’s mind on the negation.
To believe oneself to be committed to a void like this is a more than adequate cause for depressive mental illness, which is most likely to affect those whose minds are healthy and logically seriously enough to react against irrationalities imposed on them.

Those who can stabilize this condition and seem to live healthily on it do so because they are able to avoid mental contact with the ‘absolute void’ which their doctrine logically implies in the midst of their supposedly absolute consciousness.

And see
>>18667152

>>18667181
Buddhist sutras. I started with theravada literature (that often recommended book called "in the buddha's words") and moved on to the heart sutra, then the diamond sutra. Then I dropped everything because I realized I was going through massive amounts of cognitive dissonance and that I deep down believed everything I read to be bullshit but rationalized it consciously.

Brahman-with-qualities (saguna) must be replaced by Brahman-without-qualities (nirguna). And only in this way can the perfect identity of the inner self and the supreme Self by maintained. To the theist, on the other hand, this whole method appears blasphemous, not only because it robs the supreme Person of qualities essential to his being, but more specifically because it reduced his transcend supremacy in relation to the individual self, and it was the knowledge of the self’s dependence on this supremacy that he declared as the only means to ultimate liberation.

Don't engage with guenonfag. He's literally mentally ill, will samefag the shit out of his threads, responds to arguments with "This is obviously wrong, Shankara in his Peepeepoopoo sutra says [wall of text]." He copes hard and plays semantic games whenever you prove that the traditionalist parallels don't add up.

Nothing good comes out of non-dualism. Guenon was a LARPer who didn't understand Sufism or Islam. He never learned to read Arabic, had 0 knowledge of classical Arabic. Frithjof Schuon was a child molester hypocrite. It's all a cringe boomer cult.

>>18667214

here come the discord transgenders to call me a seething hylic

>>18667224
just finished rereading a Guenon book. keep seething, pleb

>>18667214
>>18667220
>posts from 2019 and 2018
Guenonfag left this board long ago you are just an old man yelling at the clouds.
People like you really make me sad. You even make people more curious about Guenon (which I don't know why you are seething so much about)

>>18667172
>How does Kashmir Shivaism fix the problems of Advita?
It doesn't, for there are none in Advaita.

>>18667214
>>18667220
>>18668977
This is pretty depressing, both the guenon spam and the schizo obsession with it.

>>18667307
>Guenon
Read it.
Very heretic cringe...

>Why are so many young people on this board so obsessed with Buddhism/Advaita non-dualism, Hinduism, Esotericism, Gnosticism, Guenon and other idolatries?
Because the only alternative to this is milquetoast christcuckery or the reddit IFLS! crowd.
>how to fight this impulse in the West and return the young people to a better state for their soul?
Why don't you try fixing your shitty religion, for starters?

>>18664930
>/lit/erature on how to fight this impulse in the West and return the young people to a better state for their soul?
Cargo cult mentality. It's time to move on. The funeral ended years ago and the rest of us went drinking afterward at Applebee's.

maggots itt

Christ teaches non-dualism.

>>18671562
Nobody cared who he was until he put on the mask.

>>18666402
lol

what happened? did jannies finally lose it?

>>18665239
The idea of Islamic Unitarianism being the most “non-dualist” system that exists is simply laughable in my opinion. Stop buying into the propaganda of those figures of the latter centuries projecting their beliefs onto the earlier ones.

They have taken their rabbis and their monks as lords apart from God and the Messiah, Mary's son.
Yet they were commanded to serve but One God;
There is no god but He; glory be to Him, above that they associate.

cant disprove a negative

>>18664930
Not through Bible quotes. Biblical criticisms of other religions is purely polemical and strawmans their opponents' beliefs as "worshipping stones and wood".

>>18673487
That's not a hard rule, "1+1 does not equal 2" is easily disproven, for example.

>>18671562
>Cargo cult mentality
Thanks for the new things to read about! That's what I'm on /lit/ for.
Can you explain what you meant by cargo cult mentality? Who exactly are you calling that?

>>18667176
>One significant fact about both monists and non-dualists is that they both conclude that the phenomenal world is illusory as a consequence of their premise that only the Infinite is real. This is obviously a logical deduction, one which shows that they too believe that reason rules even at the highest levels of reality.
In Hindu non-dualism the idea that only the immutable infinite is absolutely real is accepted not because its a premise they came up with via logical deduction but rather because those Hindu non-dualists understand the Hindu scriptures to teach that doctrine, and they are using logic to defend and argue for the coherency of a teaching which they already accepted as true on the basis of scripture.
>Otherwise, if supra-forma and supra-natural reality was beyond logic as such, they would be able to affirm both the reality of the world and the exclusive reality of the Infinite at the same time, and never mind the contradiction.
For both Abrahamic religions and Advaita, God is more fundamental than time, space and logic; being the source who produced them or the experience of them. Because of this, when are trying to relate the created reality including time, causal relations etc to God who is the origin of that reality, the human mind struggles because it functions by relating concepts in rational, spatial, temporal etc terms which were all created by God, and this method doesn't really delineate what's going on anymore when talking about the connection between these created terms themselves with the transcendent God, because the way in which God produces and sustains these created terms does not function via those very created terms themselves because that would be a contradiction whereby their production would require them to already exist before their own production.

However, this in itself is not a good reason to throw out things like the law of non-contradiction anymore, it's more logically consistent to acknowledge that God is transcendent to and beyond created terms like space, time, causation etc while still providing a theological or metaphysical account of how God relates to and sustains the world that is free of any violations of the law of non-contradiction. If you throw out the law of non-contradiction, then if you don't throw it out everywhere else too your logic and views become inconsistent. And Advaita provides one example of a metaphysical doctrine that doesn't violate the law of non-contradiction when explaining how God is at once Infinite, and at the same time not identical with the world, when it explains that God alone exists as the absolute reality who just projects the seemingly-true existence of the world, multiplicity, etc all the while Himself being the only thing existing in truth.

>>18667176
>>18674297
>The fact that they will not do this a good indication that they only object to logic when it does not serve their purposes.
That's not true, as explained above, God being transcendent is not a good reason to not accept the law of non-contradiction anymore. Advaita accepts the limits of logic but also holds without contradiction that its valid within its own sphere. They hold that human logic is fallible and purely human devised systems of deduction or induction can never reach the absolute truth, and that revealed scriptures reveal the ultimate nature of reality/existence, and also that logic has a valid role in demonstrating and defending the internal consistency and coherency of scriptural teachings, while helping to identify the flaws and contradictions in false ideas, teachings and world-views.

>The doctrine of illusion is admitted to be contradictory,
The doctrine of maya itself is free of logical contradictions as Advaitins explain in their writings, some people make the mistake of trying to attack it by describing some apparently flawed premise in the explanation of how God produces the worlds through maya, but these end up trying to describe the production of maya (which includes causal relations, time etc) by God in terms which are the created product and which don't characterize the way that God produces those terms themselves. Advaita does not teach that maya is a contradictory or logically inconsistent doctrine, what's really going on is that some people misunderstand it and think they have identified an issue with maya, when in actuality what they are doing is coming up with questions about it that inherently presume that God cannot be the ultimate origin of the false appearance of something in a way that transcends our understanding of causality, time etc, while being ontologically above those things.

>>18674302
>The doctrine of maya
cringe

>>18664930
Because it is slowly entering mainstream consciousness that Dualism is non-Western. Specifically it is Magian. Since not everyone falls for the Jew pill they go in the opposite direction of non-dualism. Unfortunately this is also the wrong step. What is needed us an explication of Bipolarity, a truly Western thought.

>>18664930
>Seeking knowledge is bad, you can only consume this specific and authorized kind of teachings.
Yeah I wonder why...
Christianity is just another sun worshiping cult with some extra people control for the Romans and or the Jews.

>>18664930
The religion of Taurus died two ages ago, Aries died one age ago, now it is the death of Pisces.
Aquarius is whom is next, and your age is next on the chopping block.

>>18664930
When was the last time you had sex

>>18673609
Sure. Your post is asking how to fight off the interpenetration of contemporary western religious/spiritual behavior by foreign doctrines (a process as old as the Roman empire but nevermind that). Your answer is to quote a religious scripture which today only holds weight for a minority of the population, the rest being atheists, agnostics, deists, or followers of foreign religions, whose response to such quotes is to smirk. The context in which Christianity produced the civilizational effects which you prefer has dissipated like the Allied airmen who flew over Pacific islands in WW2. You are suggesting that a coconut radio and fake airstrip approach will make Christianity land again and give you, what, the driving out of religious heterogeneity? It won't happen.

>>18664930
>wants to refute non-dualism
>tries to do this by quoting Bible verses saying I'll go to hell if I believe in non-dualism