/lit/ - Literature

How does something else appropriating a work ruin the original? Muh cooption... just don't buy the Che shirt dude

>>18664317
Have you ever read Simulacra and Simulation? You could at least learn what it's about before making the most bafflingly hilarious and stupid comment I've seen here in a while, and that's quite the achievement.

>>18663948
>Everything about everything has been fully commodified
I understood this in the late 90s when I saw pre-distressed, pre-ripped blue jeans being sold to Nirvana fans at luxury prices. Nobody seemed to understand what was funky about it.

>>18663948
>The Matrix is heavily influenced by the book Simulacra and Simulation.
I'm also going to point out that before whatever influence Simulacra and Simulation had on the Wachowski brothers, they just wanted to "make Ghost in the Shell but with real people". And they put cool martial arts in it and gunfights. It was never meant to be mind-blowing high art.

>>18663948
The Matrix was fully commodified by the time of its release. It is a grave misunderstanding or misrepresentation of Baudrillard. "The Matrix" is not distinct from reality, and representing it as such totally misses the point of Baudrillard entirely.
Not that faithfully representing Baudrillard would have prevented its commodification or its subsequent plundering by creation of simulacra.

Movies where always a part of the simulacra.

I'm also going to point out that before whatever influence the Matrix had on the Baudrillard, he just wanted to "make Ghost in the Shell but with real people". And he put cool martial arts in it and gunfights. It was never meant to be mind-blowing high art.

>>18664317
When the new abstract simulation that is pure symbol and no reference the original meaning is lost and thought to be the original

>>18664728
I'm also going to point out that before whatever influence the Matrix had on the new abstract simulation, he just wanted to "make pure symbol and no reference the original but with real people". And he put cool martial arts in it and gunfights. It was never meant to be mind-blowing high art.

>>18664434
That’s true but the Wachowskis tried to retcon it in the last film and imply that the simulation/matrix is actually all-encompassing and can’t be truly escaped.

>>18663948
I visited my cousin and his kids a while back and they laughed at their garbage cable television programs that had no jokes just laughtrack and references to itself. "Ha! I recognize that!"
This is the fullest extent of those poor Zoomers' humor. I find it grating to hear "Chad Chad Chad Chad Chad Chad" until we no longer are thinking of some goofy high school jock with excess females but some ProtoIndoEuropean Tribal Godhead of Male Virility^Batman

>>18663948
>The Matrix is heavily influenced by the book Simulacra and Simulation
It's really not. Morpheus quotes the "welcome to the desert of the real" line totally out of context and the book is shown in a single scene. The idea of "simulation" was taken so literally that the characters "live" inside a computer program but are in the real world used as batteries by demiurgic robots for no reason. If anything, Lars and the Real Girl is more faithful adaptation of Baudrillard.

>>18663948
yes thanks

>>18664747
Art imitates life and thus art has a life of its own. Is any high art done for the sake of achieving high art really captivating beyond the snooty finance of museum circle jerks? I think not. I think art impresses or doesn't on the fact that the artist shouldn't know the reception ahead of time beyond some whimsical guess. If the audience is so predictable we're talking propaganda not art. Berserk and The Matrix are high art because that's what people feel now. The Mona Lisa is not truly much but legacy to us nowadays but it was painstakingly created in mythos and in invisible brush stroke to strike our idea of high art. The highest form of art comes to life on its own. Worse in its power is when we can no longer grasp reality because the impression is so strong and inextricable.

>COMMODIFICATION BAD
Why's that?
>UHHH.... UMMM....

When the Whackoffski sisters declared that The Matrix was an allegory for being transgendered, what does The Matrix represent in that interpretation? Society's conventional concept of having two genders, or what?

I think the Behelit is my new Matrix that I'm lost in. Everyone I argued about the Matrix was unsure if we "get" it. "Getting it" is innate. Like Neo "gets" the fabric of reality because he is the One. He knows the reference so he can throw off the symbol. The Behelit is interesting lore to me that this amulet finds you and you may or may not be destined to activate its Faustian bargain upon your horrible hour of despair. But if you do there is no way out. The Behelit may leave your grasp at any time and you were just carrying it for someone else to meet the God Hand in the astral planes of ultimate spiritual reality. This reminds me of Kant's a priori knowledge questions or Darwinian instinct. We all want to be the one but only The One knows he is The One. It's supposed to be a cosmic Catch 22 inherently solved by your inherent nature. Man's bearuacracies can only do so then by man's pulpil accepted at man's unrighteous stewards by stamp and seal. The Behelit is a twist on Deus Ex Machina. God in the machine is realization itself, as you are realizing the plot unfolds. You realize because you meant to realize and you were meant to realize because this itself is like a Spider's web only woven for potential capture.

Anyways Bauillard is tangential here but I relate the Behelit to the Matrix rabbit for Neo's nature.

>>18664375
>It was never meant to be mind-blowing high art
Do you not remember the insane philosophical navel gazing in the sequels? The entire Merovingian shit and architect speech was pretentious bollocks.

>>18664806
>>18664804
Hits vape
Bro it's time for a rave
I'm gonna turn on my buttplug and sauce up some molly
Yo my porn addiction is insane I think I'm gonna wear a leather dress
Whoa Zion is like
The perfect city where like all that society shit doesn't suck

>>18664773
Commodification is bad because it standardizes pretty much everything. Explorations, discoveries, creative accidents are replaced by formulaic, repeated and uninspired codes.

>>18664804
It's not an allegory for being transgendered. That's some revisionary bullshit equivalent to making Dumbledore gay

>>18664804
It’s a pretty stupid retcon. Don’t pay attention to it.

>>18664804
>Whackoffski
Subtle
Nice

>>18664765
Jesus, get a tripcode already, faggot. What a bunch of shit.

>>18664753
>The idea of "simulation" was taken so literally that the characters "live" inside a computer program but are in the real world used as batteries by demiurgic robots for no reason.
So... Were the Wachowski trannies PSEUDS?

>>18663948
Just make your own culture bro
>culture is dead wah wah wah
What are you adding to culture?

>>18664833
>formula bad
>repetition bad
>codes bad

Standardisation is the basis of fairness and transparency numbnuts, only valueless hacks fear it because it exposes them

>>18664929
>"fair" and "transparent" are meaningful adjectives when it comes to stories

>>18664957
In your case a bit of transparency would help to know what you were trying to say when you said "pretty much everything"

>>18664991
I'm not him. Your confusion about how an anonymous board works is fitting tho

>>18665012
I'm not the guy you were talking to initially either.

>>18663948
What happens when there is no culture? The end of civilization?

>>18664929
>Standardisation is the basis of fairness and transparency numbnuts,
This has to be trolling

>>18663948
The matrix is an allegory for coming out as transgender. I don't know where you got all that other crap from, did you even watch the film?

>>18665243
Trans shit had nothing to do with The Matrix that shit fried the bro's brains and they both trooned out due to the extreme BDSM those fucking freaks were into. Now they are a clown show.

>The Hackoffpee Siblings

>>18664806
>Do you not remember the insane philosophical navel gazing in the sequels?
I unironically don't watch sequels

>>18663948
What if I told you that Simulacra and Simulation misquoted and misreferenced PK Dick books about going mad because God was fucking with your head in a level of simulation one step up?

What if I told you that if simulations exist we are certainly in a simulation, and we can prove such by conducting a simulation ourselves. Even this conversation involves at least two conducted simulations, demostrating that necessarily we ourselves are simulations of a higher order conversation or computer.

Enjoy. Every sentence has a period.