/lit/ - Literature

>>18659189
>There's a paradox in Christianity
Christianity is full of paradoxes. For example https://www.marxists.org/reference/archive/diderot/1770/religion.htm

>>18659298
Yeah retard, I'm talking about one in particular. Fuck off.

>>18659298
>marxists.org
Cringe

>>18659298
>marxist.org
lmao

>>18659189
what is your point?

>>18659644
>what is your point?
Darryl Anka said you don't take it to heart if you know it has nothing to do with you and it never does, but he didn't explain why, maybe this has something to do with it.

>>18659189
In Christianity one accepts that they're a sinner and will never be sin-free in this world...

Your 'paradox' is meaningless.

“If the world hates you, know that it has hated me before it hated you. If you were of the world, the world would love you as its own; but because you are not of the world, but I chose you out of the world, therefore the world hates you."

>>18659687
>In Christianity one accepts that they're a sinner and will never be sin-free in this world...
so? doesn't refute my point
>Your 'paradox' is meaningless.
no it's not

>>18659690
>That's when there is a paradox. Because if you're truly a good person, wouldn't you be able to have the whole world think you're rotten and not be fazed by it?

No, Christians aren't 'good people', nor do they think themselves as such.

Your 'paradox' relies on ignorance.

For example, a Christian sings this like this:
"Amazing Grace, how sweet the sound
That saved a wretch like me."

>>18659298
>Why are the miracles of Jesus Christ true, while those of Aesculapius, Apollonius of Tyane, and Mohammed are false?
literally ricky gervais "I just believe in one less god than you" shit 2 and a half centuries ago

>>18659707
>Your 'paradox' relies on ignorance.
no it doesn't, no need for quotation marks, it's a paradox even if you don't understand it

fucking retards

>>18659721
It relies on your misunderstanding(ignorance), which I just pointed out.

>>18659728
no it doesn't, the one who isn't understanding a fucking thing is you

>>18659731
lol, at least learn about the worldview you're trying to critique.

I've pointed out your ignorance, you haven't addressed it. Apart from "no it doesn't :'( "

>>18659189
Jesus was not fazed by being considered a false prophet by others; he merely wanted to bring the revelation to them to help them with their own lives.
Is that what you're trying to say, that Jesus was fazed by being considered a false prophet by the Jews? This is a very strangely worded argument.

>>18659189
>A good person is not fazed when someone has a very negative opinion of them.
>....
>I'm thinking maybe that's the meaning of the metaphor "Jesus was a Jew".
What do you think that means? Why is that a paradox in your mind?

somebody better answer my god damn question for once

what is THE best book, the GOLD STANDARD, when it comes to literature on the spread of early christianity
now i'm not talking about books that read like "and he spread his message here and there, they ran into some trouble but politics saved them blah blah and it spread further until etc"

i'm talking books that reach deep into the darkest depths of a person's psychology when it comes to jumping ship from a pagan religion to a monotheistic religion like christianity because let's be honest - why the fuck did people convert to christianity in the first place? for what?

>>18659846
>why the f**k did people convert to christianity in the first place? for what?

When reading historians, you'll always get a second or third hand interpretation.

My advice is to read some of the early church apologists,
Justin Martyr (who was a philosopher convert to Christianity) in his letter to the emperor or his dialogue with Trypho the Jew.

You'll find much more insight by reading the first-hand sources.

Even the snippets from Pagan historians like Tacitus, their attitude to Christians is helpful.

>>18659846
> why the fuck did people convert to christianity in the first place? for what?
Testimony of the apostles, their martyrdom and their students was a big part. The arguments they made, the change in behavior they exhibited. Sometimes people would convert via spiritual experiences or rational argumentation. Pagans would be surprised at how friendly, joyful and charitable early Christians were regardless of their situation, even while being martyred.

you could look up Justin Martyr and St. Augustine they talk about their conversion process.

>>18659882
>f**k
thanks for the suggestions i guess

>>18659846
>>18659882
I'm not sure this is true, but I heard from a friend who reads a lot of Roman history that one of the main reasons Christianity spread wasn't even because that many people converted but instead that it was because early Christians just had a lot of kids in relation to Romans and eventually overwhelmed them demographically. Is there any truth to this?
Isn't one of the main

>>18659903
Np

“The venom of asps is under their lips.
Their mouth is full of curses and bitterness.”

>>18659913
I don't know much about that, I've never heard it mentioned,
however,
infanticide was relatively common among pagans, they would leave unwanted children to die on doorsteps or throw them into the river. However Christians would rescue them at night.

I don't think that alone would account for the massive rise before Christianity was powerful enough to provide legal incentives and later still, force conversions.

One of the earliest texts about conversion is commonly called "Mathetes" (meaning apostle or follower in greek, I think).
The entire letter is to a pagan who's asked "who are the Christians". The fifth chapter is the most widely quoted. Here's some selections:

"For the Christians are distinguished from other men neither by country, nor language, nor the customs which they observe. For they neither inhabit cities of their own, nor employ a peculiar form of speech, nor lead a life which is marked out by any singularity."

"They marry, as do all [others]; they beget children; but they do not destroy their offspring. They have a common table, but not a common bed. They are in the flesh, but they do not live after the flesh."

"They obey the prescribed laws, and at the same time surpass the laws by their lives. They love all men, and are persecuted by all. They are unknown and condemned; they are put to death, and restored to life."

"they are assailed by the Jews as foreigners, and are persecuted by the Greeks; yet those who hate them are unable to assign any reason for their hatred."

>paradox

>>18659882
>>18659902
>>18660023
>>18660023
so people converted to christianity simply because they believed in it?

man and i thought people today were dumb

>>18660587

>so people converted to christianity simply because they believed in it?

That's not at all what I or the other anon said -_-

Maybe try reading our comments again.

Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword

>>18659189
>There's a paradox in Christianity.
There is also a paradox in atheism, logic, reality, and the very being of existence. What is the point of pondering on such if you will never get a satisfactory answer? (Actually there is an answer, although specific to you. As people who write or discuss such paradoxes already have their own personal answer to them. And as such, you have already made up your mind. There is no point in debating)
>A good person is not fazed when someone has a very negative opinion of them
Not at all. Who told you this? Stoicism? Lol, come on now. You are a human being of emotion, being good or bad has nothing to do with anything. If you are a bodybuilder, should you suddenly lose pain? If you are a therapist, should all negativity suddenly never effect you? If you are a professional fighter, will you win every fight?

Where will this line of logic get you?

>>18660636
it isn't what you said, but it's what you meant

>>18659690
>>18659721
You're fucking retarded, Anon. About what I'd expect from someone like you.

>>18660587
no, you're wrong, and the truth will really make you screech
people convert to christianity when God calls to them to convert to christianity.

>>18660587
While true that’s an incredibly facile answer. Yes they believed it, but why did they believe it?

>>18660726
>logic
logic is a set of tools devoid of content, I don't think there can be a paradox there

>>18660043
yeah idiot, just because you don't see the paradox doesn't mean it's not a paradox

>>18659798
It's a paradox because as I said a GOOD person isn't fazed by negative opinion of them, even when the whole world has the opinion of them that they are NOT GOOD. Let's say you are observing a person who is being accused of being a bad person, and you're observing how he is being fazed by this opinion. From the statement "a good person isn't fazed by negative opinion of them" you'd deduce that this person was not good, because as I said he was fazed by it. But that deduction, that judgment, of yours, based on the observation that he is fazed by the negative opinion, is in itself just exactly such an opinion which we were talking about. Hence the paradox.

>>18661660
Who are you accusing of being fazed that creates a paradox for you? And what sort of fazing contradicts a person's goodness??
And lastly how do you know a person is truly fazed without knowing their heart?

bump

>>18660781

>it isn't what you said, but it's what you meant

I meant what I said.

I expect that you're able to convey meaning with words, it would do you well to have the same expectation of others.

Loser, you made this thread the last time, and still not satisfied. Listen, lemme tell you:
You are not special. You are not smart. YOu philosophical argument has no factual grounds. Go back to your mancave, rethink your situation, and come back when you grow a bit wiser.

>>18661778
>Who are you accusing of being fazed that creates a paradox for you?
Why would it be "for me", this isn't fucking about me.
>And what sort of fazing contradicts a person's goodness??
Are you being deliberately obtuse? I already gave examples, if someone thinks you're weak or ugly, a good person doesn't throw a fit because of it, a bad person does.
>And lastly how do you know a person is truly fazed without knowing their heart?
You don't. And this isn't about the outside anyway, it's about logic. And you're all thinking of it from outside, but it's better seen from the inside, from a mental position. Instead of thinking person A accuses person B of being bad and person B is/isn't fazed by it, think like this. Someone thinks you are bad, or the whole world thinks you are bad, not just people and their words, attitude, behavior etc but it could be other things too like something in life that makes you feel like a bad person, being sick etc, but mostly it's about other people. Having an emotional reaction to that input from outside, i.e. being fazed by it, is a key component in what constitutes being bad, and certainly it's an important aspect of what makes you think of something as true. Now if you aren't fazed it can't be true because then you'd be fazed. In essence it seems like there are two you's, one that is being judged by others and another one which is connected to the first you if it's being fazed but disconnected if it's unfazed. Jesus being tortured and hated seems to symbolize this split into two you's.

This argument makes no fooking sense m8.

>>18664937
yeah it does

>>18661415
Logic comes from a god literally all comes down to TAG