/lit/ - Literature

>>18641655
Back in 2006 I knew a filipino guy who used this and astrology to build his carpet-cleaning business. He was madly successful and last I heard he had 5 vans going.

I only met him because I brought a copy of the Tao te ching to a BBQ and was reading it so I wouldn't pound the liquor and get too wasted to drive.

>>18641655
>reading a literal divination system like a book

>>18641669
That sounds based as fuck. I may as well try.

The I Ching is a book about patterns and recognising patterns
Originally it was devised a divination book but the writers wrote it by looking at the universe and finding patterns in the universe and interpreting them
So you have 2 approaches
The first is to use the book as a book of divination, you generate patterns and then see what the book has to say
The second is to use book in order to study patterns in the universe
I'd suggest you make a divination now though, you can make them at chinese temples
I made a divination at a Taoist temple asking if I should transition years ago and the response I got was yes I should

Also you should get the The I Ching or Book of Changes edition written by Richard Wilhelm

>>18641655
>>18641929
This

>>18641669
Tao te ching is not i ching

>>18642215
Good premise anon. The buildup is satisfactory, but the execution of the punchline leaves something to be desired.

>>18642215
I-Is this bait?

>>18642215
Seems like a good intro to Taoism. I will check that out later.

>>18642666
Well the i ching itself is pretty advanced, im not sure about the taoist edition in the op though
>>18642656
>>18642628
Not bait
100% honest

>>18642666
Read the dao de jing if you want daoism. I ching is akin to entrail reading.

>>18642215
had me in the first half anon not going to lie

>>18641655
Lol I made a similar thread a few months ago, freaky!
>>/lit/thread/S18303232

>>18642760
Well I hope the disphoria is better anon.
Don't bdd and rope please.

>>18641655

One billion of them and they still haven't released the I CHONG.

>>18641669
>used this and astrology to build his carpet-cleaning business
what do you mean? how do people use this book to do things? is it used in decision-making or what?

>>18644248
>is it used in decision-making or what?
That's it's primary purpose. The I Ching and its precursor divination systems were extremely important in ancient China. The oldest form of Chinese writing we have are from royal divination records in the form of burned tortise shells with dvinatory scripts on them.

I worked with the I Ching for several years and it's shockingly accurate when used correctly. You ask a question then go through the process: either dividing yarrow stalks or tossing coins. It's the exact opposite of carnival fortune telling or cold reading where the "oracle" asks open-ended questions and tries to be as vague as possible. With the I Ching, the more specific the question the more pointed the judgement.

This is the translation you want by the way. Others are inferior.

>>18644248
I'm no expert, but the idea is that you flip some coins (in theory the copy I own came with them, but I bought it 2nd hand and it was cheap because they had lost the coins) (but I think it works with small sticks and other similar shit) while thinking about a question and depending on the head/tails you read the relevant symbol/aphorisms. In a sense it's a binary code, I remember reading that Leibnitz told a friend who was going to China "Tell the Chinese about this shit I came up with", turns out they had already something similar for thousands of years.

There are "I Ching online" sites btw, if you want to give it a try.

>>18641655
>pronounced “Itching”

>>18644314
Try, for once in your misbegotten life, to post something either relevant, correct, or both.

>>18644324
She's right, you know, it's not eyeching

>>18644248
I don't remember but he was doing really well with it. He gave me a copy of "The Tao of Physics" and I think I might still have it somewhere.

With an actual I Ching there's nothing to read. What you have in your book is commentary or interpretation. Read it if you want to.

The version I have doesn't mention a single thing about coins. Instead it talks about associating the trigrams with abstract qualities like strength, creativity, passion, danger, etc. and going to a combination that seems relevant to your situation.

>>18644314
>>18644364
no, it's pronounced ee jing. i speak mandarin

>>18644374
>"The Tao of Physics"
>see it on a random market stall
>pick it up, open first page
>Dedicated to *crushname*
>put it back
It still hurts

Pic:not her

>>18644394
>The version I have doesn't mention a single thing about coins
Strange
>Instead it talks about associating the trigrams with abstract qualities like strength, creativity, passion, danger
It does this in mine too
>and going to a combination that seems relevant to your situation.
Not sure about this part, the whole point is that you go to I Ching to get answers, if it was just "Yeah, this is exactly the situation I'm in" you wouldn't need it in the first place

>>18642215
>I made a divination at a Taoist temple asking if I should transition years ago and the response I got was yes I should
So it's completely worthless then, good to know. I'll use my time on something else then, thanks.

>>18644394
Then it's new-age horseshit. Get the Wilhelm-Baynes translation.

>>18644434
>the whole point is that you go to I Ching to get answers, if it was just "Yeah, this is exactly the situation I'm in"
Precisely. The I Ching is an index of archetypal situations and advice for responding to them. It gives you no method at all for rationally determining which situation you're in. The index can only be searched by divination.

>>18644438
In my experience, when you ask the oracle stupid, narcissistic questions with obvious moral solutions, it will mock you by being too on the nose with the answer you wanted to hear.


>lol yeah you should totally cut your dick off

If you don't pick up on the sarcasm you get what you deserve.

>>18641655
it's not really a book.
there are 3 books in the yijing.
the first one is unequivocally not meant to be read cover-to-cover.
the second one is certainly meant for that, it's a kind of exposition on the meaning and usage of the trigrams and hexagrams
the third is more optional, it's a series of significant chinese authors commentating on various hexagrams; but i'd still probably not read the third one.

>>18642235
yes, this version with the Carl Jung foreword is the best one. my uncle gave it to me as a christmas gift awhile back and it's been very useful.

>>18644624
Lmao, do you know what subreddit that is? I wanna check it.

>>18644872
It was r/transitionhorrorstories or something. They shut it down about two years ago.

This one's a classic.

>>18644881
This one inspired a parody song

https://files.catbox.moe/jnalrf.mp3

>>18641655
Is the I Ching "Taoist" rather than "Confucianist", or does
>The Taoist I Ching
just mean : the way of the I Ching?

>>18644434
>Not sure about this part, the whole point is that you go to I Ching to get answers, if it was just "Yeah, this is exactly the situation I'm in" you wouldn't need it in the first place
I don't understand the contradiction you're perceiving. The way it's explained in the version I have is that you translate your situation or question into its abstract qualities (the trigrams) and then look to the combinations of those trigrams to get guidance.

>>18645093
If you know you a have disease called [whatever] you don't need to go see a doctor and ask him "What is my disease?"
I don't know how else to say it

>>18642215
this is excellent bait lmao

>>18645138
What's the proper way to do the divination? That might help me understand better.

>>18645154
>What's the proper way to do the divination?
As I said here >>18644313 I'm no expert

>>18644309
This anon knows better

>>18645237
To me that sounds like you are essentially accessing the index at random and then trying to relate the result to your question, as opposed to starting with the question, distilling it to abstract features, and then seeking the advice that corresponds to those features. However, if that is the traditional way of doing it then I will go try to read up on it.

>>18644881
Holy fuck, that's actually depressing. Thinking how many people had their lives destroyed because of the LGTB lobby and porn industry makes me sick to my stomach.

>>18645154
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/I_Ching_divination#Yarrow_stalks
These are all really complex, but they're just means of introducing randomness.

There's 64 hexagrams, each is made up of six lines. Each is either open or closed. So, you have a binary string ranging from 000000 to 111111. Each one has a name and a meaning. You get your hexagram, meditate on the meaning, and then apply it. It's closer to the Ancient Greek idea of divination where you're actually trying to figure out the Will of the Gods than the Jewish ideas of literally telling the future or obscuring moral culpability through randomness.

>>18642215
Seemed good until the last bit, but everyone familiar with the I Ching knows you can't ask yes or no questions nor anything else with an either/or outcome. Good bait to fool newfags though.

>>18645154
>>18645237
It's much more about your psychology than the divination method used. Coins are fine, and you'll find the instructions for using them in the Wilhem translation. You need three. Most people use antique Chinese cash coins they buy from Ebay or coin/antique shops. Why not quarters or euro coins or something? Because the act of using objects that aren't mundane, but took some effort to acquire, affects your mindset during the divination process. You should also wrap the book in silk and keep it on the highest shelf in your house, preferably its own shelf. Again: for the respect for the process this engenders.

You're aiming for a meditative state. You want your mind as free from internal dialog and mundane thoughts as possible. You want to feel a connection to your intuition.

When it comes to what method to use, you can conceivably use any. It must be a process for generating one of four randomized results six times. Either

>Yin
>Yang
>changing Yin
>changing Yang

And you must do this with your hands. Stalks or coins are fine, but you could use dice, a custom deck of cards, etc.

When you get a hexagram the judgements are occasionally confusing. But remember that visual metaphor is the language of the I Ching and not only is the text of the judgements rich in similes,
but each hexagram is an image unto itself. Literally one on top of the other. You have to use your visual imagination to create the corresponding scene in your mind, and then relate it to the name of the hexagram and text of the judgement.

For example, hexagram 59 (selected at random) is Huan: Dispersion.

The trigrams are [Gentle Wind] over [Abysmal Water]
So using my visual imagination I see a hazy evening sky and a smooth breeze moving over the wide-open ocean. The text of the judgement is

>Dispersion, Success
>The king approaches his temple
>It furthers one to cross the great water
>Perseverance furthers

The image in the judgement is more or less what I saw in my mind's eye, showing we're on the right track. Let's suppose the question you asked is "Can I learn how to use the I Ching?" The answer is obvious: it may take you some time but with persistent effort it will be smooth sailing: confusions will be swept away.

Of course there are more complexities in a careful divination. If you generate a changing line you'll have TWO hexagrams, which will show you how the present situation will merge into a future one. For greater detail you interpret the inner trigrams as well. You also incorporate everything you know about the questioner and their situation. It's a holistic process requiring good faith, selflessness, all your intuition, and good working knowledge of this divination system.

Obviously there's not enough space to go into all these details here. Buy yourself a Wilhelm-Baynes edition and read through it. It's got a nice forward by Jung.

>>18645583
Saved
>Most people use antique Chinese cash coins they buy from Ebay or coin/antique shops
This is a nice idea, I was thinking of maybe crafting some myself. Not sure how to do this though

>>18645259
The ride never ends.

>>18645413
I'm not sure about that anon, my family is taoist and my grandmother told me what to do with the yarrow stalks
>>18645145
It's not but ok
>>18644065
Thanks <3

>>18644309
>>18645583
>reading a translation of a translation

>>18646157
It's literally the only edition of the I Ching worth reading in English

>>18646168
Namedropping C.G. Jung does not make a book good.

>>18646286
1. Yes it does.
2. You're a fag.

>>18644881
>this is all i wanted in life

Reminder to never get what you want.

>>18645909
>literally AAAAAAAAA I'M GOOOOING INSAAAAAAAAANEEEEE AAAAAAAAAAAAAA

What will dissuade people if not this?

>>18644881
> this creature has a girlfriend
My God!

>>18644979
>Is the I Ching "Taoist" rather than "Confucianist"
It predates and greatly influenced both traditions, there are translations and commentary from both, as well as Buddhist.

That particular translation is from Taoist adept Liu I-ming in 1796 of the Clear Serene branch of the Complete Reality school of Taoism
(Complete Reality Taoism was the first Taoist Sect to establish a system that successfully blended and harmonized the "Three Teachings" (Taoism, Buddhism and Confucianism))

>The ninth century Taoist giant Lu Tung-pin, an erstwhile Confucian scholar who later became a mystic of high rank in the esoteric Taoist heirarchy, wrote of the I Ching, "Although the words are very clear, yet they are also very vague. The shallow may take the I Ching to be a book of divination, but the profound consider it the secret of the celestial mechanism."

>>18646859
no u

>>18641655
I Ching???? More like I CRINGE!!!!!

>>18649151
BASED BASED BASED BASED BASED BASED BASED BASED BASED BASED BASED BASED

>>18648178
Hitler.

>>18649310
>pic

holy fuck thats nightmarish

>>18645583
>antique Chinese cash coins
Does it have to be Chinese?

>>18649527
it helps to get you in the mood

>>18649310
I WANNA SMELL NEO VAGINAL FARTS

>>18649527
Not really, but people think the more "authentic" the method is, the more accurate the results will be, but if that's your line of thinking, then you might as well get yarrow sticks since they're an older method and easier to acquire.

>>18650616

I use it for divination.

I am not a "superstitious" person. The hexagrams you draw are a fiction that makes itself true. It is a puzzle you will project onto your life, that you will unravel as you change and grow. Sometimes they are true in a very direct sense, sometimes they are barbed or ironic.

Do not treat it lightly. It is something you should do every few months or years, not ever few days or weeks.

>>18650776
>Do not treat it lightly. It is something you should do every few months or years, not ever few days or weeks.
I understand that one should not delegate his own life decisions to a Chinese divination book, but you make it sound like there is more to it, same as when they tell you "Don't use ouija boards", "do not take too much LSD". So what do you mean exactly?

>>18651279
There isn’t enough concrete “advice” in a hexagram to make your decisions for you, and even if there was, it’s not like you would take it anyway.

It really has nothing to do with making decisions, quite the opposite, it makes you appreciate chance, or destiny. Given long enough, the hexagram always comes true because it is vague and unfalsifiable.

The longer you hold it, the more meanings and associations it accumulates. You may catch yourself in the act of bending it to flatter yourself or justify your flaws or weaknesses. It is a mirror, and a very honest one. Because there is so little content, it is almost like a sensory deprivation tank—given almost nothing but itself, what does your mind come up with?

>>18645583
>Why not quarters or euro coins or something? Because the act of using objects that aren't mundane, but took some effort to acquire, affects your mindset during the divination process.

This is very true. Last time I drew hexagrams, I wrote a program to simulate the yarrow stalk method.

Borges knew