/lit/ - Literature

>>18643398
anime

any books?

Does anyone know of a good space fantasy that is less opera and more horror? Think Dead Space, sort of. Aliens that are nightmarish and terrifying, humanity on the brink of destruction, chosen person schlock, e.t.c. I'm so sick of starting a SF book and just having it be about whining aliens having sex with whinier humans in space

What are some books with heavy romance element, not just a side note, but integral

>>18643411
Revelation Space

>>18643432
I'm not sure if that is quite what I'm looking for, but, thanks for the response.

Any good novels with a little girl protagonist?

>>18643416
Romancefag pls go

>>18643493
no thanks

>>18643497
Foreveralone loser please go

>>18643519
cry about it
coomers rule the world

>>18643416
Throne of Glass.

/r/ something like the shows Supernatural and Grimm. The mc solving cases involving mythical and folklore beans.

>>18643636
>Cream cone head

>>18643636
Hellboy comics

can someone redpill me on a spell for chameleon?

>>18643645
ywnbaw

>>18643479
>>18643416
>>18643405
KYS

I'm looking for fantasy recommendations that feel actually fantastical.
Something that actually captures the feeling of being in an alien dimension the human mind is utterly bewelildered at.
Take something like the phantom tollbooth, I know it's a childrens novel and most of the stuff is just wordplay, but it's full of things that seem so utterly foreign to any dimension we know of, like islands you can instantly jump to by thinking in conclusions or an orchestra who's playing creates all the colors of the world.
I guess it would be surrealistic but I don't want strange for the sake of strange and incomprehensible, I want strange that works in the world it is written for, strange because it is so foreign to our world and utterly fantastical.

>>18643730
KYS?
Kiss your sister?

>>18643636
Fables

>>18643398
Red Seas Under Red Skies, Gentleman Bastard #2 - Scott Lynch (2007)

What I read wasn't what I wanted, but it is entirely what I should've expected. As with the first book, the con artist parts were enjoyable. If it had stayed with that sort of thing the entire time, this would've been an easy four stars. Unfortunately, that was maybe half the book at best. The other half is "piracy" which was far less what I wanted. It wouldn't have been a problem if it was done well, but it's in quotes because I didn't think it was.
I had issues with the pacing as well. The book is presented in three parts. The first part is half the present and half the recent past, similar to the structure of the first book. Fortunately I enjoyed its usage more than in the first book. The second part is bloated and takes far too long to do much of anything at all. The third part may as well be a montage for all it tries to accomplish in as few pages that it does.
While it is a change of pace that each book seems that it will be designed to be almost wholly self-contained, overall I would prefer more of an overarching story. Regardless of how it's structured if I had enjoyed it more I wouldn't have minded.
And so, this may well be where my journey ends with this series. Maybe I'll change my mind in a few years and read the third book, or not. I admit I'm concerned as to why I see listings for up to a seventh book in the series when the fourth book is so long overdue. I don't feel like I'd be missing out on much, which counts for a lot. It's unfortunate, but it's how it sometimes goes.

Rating: 2.5/5

>>18643730
>You will never be a Wotonist
Never.

>>18643776
On the cheek, silly.

>>18643764
Any short story by Kafka

>>18643713
I watched the two movies. I don't like the aesthetics.

>>18643398
What's the verdict on Cixin Liu's Trisolaris Trilogy?

>>18643398
What does /sffg/ think of Winterbirth? I am a hundred pages in and I'm liking it thus far. It has real men acting like real men, notions of honour and vengeance and chivalry and camaraderie, and prose that isn't immediately grating.
The eunuchs over at Goodreads don't much care for it for basically these reasons. Anyone here read it?

>>18643883
TDF is the best one
Death's End goes too wild at the end

>>18643411
The We Thought Last We No Longer Astronaut Needed Her by David Wellington sort of makes vague gestures towards what you want, but it has a """"""""strong"""""""" female lead and that makes it mostly whiny and insufferable.
Anyway try Hull Zero Three. It's Event Horizon, minus the camp, and in print form.

>>18643929
That "Hull zero three" looks perfect! Thank you!
I absolutely adore Event Horizon, especially with how its essentially a nod to proto-Warpspace from the Warhammer series.
Thanks!!

>>18643416
Curse of Chalion. It's written by a femoid, and if you're looking for romance fantasy, femoids are basically the way to go because they don't write shite like the award winning Denna Cope internal monologue.
>>18643479
His Dark Materials is an excellent book with a little girl protag.
>>18643883
It's alright. Very based and redpilled in places. Being a chink gives you carte blanche to be as sexist as you want without consequences.

What am i in for? Reddit really enjoyed this one.

>>18643903
It's probably been more than a decade since I read it but I do remember it fondly, especially the characterization of the antagonist. I think a lot of people on goodreads expected it to be more like A Song of Ice and Fire as they sort of give off similar vibes.

>>18643976
Sounds like an interesting idea at least.

>>18643943
In that case, you'll also want to consider Ship of Fools, my fellow man of culture. Also, I enjoyed Crichton's Sphere for similar reasons (spacey alien shit and isolation but in the ocean instead of outer space). It's a bit more plot heavy than it is horror heavy.

>>18643857
That's quite different. I want something specifically that does not take place in our world but a totally alien dimension.

Best novel ever?

>>18644020
Just take a scene or two from Kushiel or Anita Blake and feed it into >NovelAI< and it'll be better than this garbage.

>>18643999
That's fine - I'm usually of the mind for something more thoughtful and deep, but I've had a real urge for something a bit crazy, hence my horror kick.
Absolutely love these rec's, thank you so much. Had nothing to read for a while and every "list" online just has the overpopularized trash or things I've read.
Bless you

>>18643976
I didn't like it at all. The idea is interesting but not well done and the ending is terrible. It doesn't make much sense in general.

>Yes, I am Butterfly and I post in /sffg/ to make chuds seethe uncontrollably.

Explain how is it that I've been reading The Thousandfold Thought since December? What a junk of a third novel.

>>18644261
Your poor taste has degraded your reading ability.

Anyone read the Grisha stuff? I have to say the Netflix show was enjoyable.

>>18644261
Have you tried reading LITERALLY more than one page a day?

>>18644295
I've read first two books in a week. But in this one the entire book consists of them traveling to Shimeh. Oh the holy Shimeh, so close! Esmenet walking around chapter. We are ever closer to Shimeh! Gaarrgaar I am the destroyer and rapist of men.

Ikurei Conphas did absolutely nothing wrong. What a powerful man if Kellhus couldn't break him like the rest. He was right, Kellhus is a hoax. Reminder he still butchered cities, tons of innocents and posed as the messiah of the scripture, despite thinking its garbage, because by very fact, he must know its BS. He even lured Esmenet into his game, never letting her know that none of it ACTUALLY matters. Same character who said he would die from some random dude from the woods is butchering people now, before even knowing about the Consult?

I don't even think Bakker knows whats up, unless Kellhus' motives become clear later on. what a non-character, a vessel for Bakker's one liners.

>>18644349
> Same character who said he would die from some random dude from the woods is butchering people now, before even knowing about the Consult?

What?

Also, Kellhus does not have human motivations, which may be throwing you off, though something did change post-Circumfixion.

Is this series worth getting into? There is plenty of material, over 30 books. I heard the first book being described as an isekai novel. From what I gathered the first 5 books or so are relatively tame .

Any weird novels similar to Junji Ito stuff?

Would anyone recommend this? I'm wanting something focusing on thieves, rogues, that sort, but the more I hear about this series the more it seems like this isn't it. I've always been intrigued by collaborative world works, but I tried Wild Cards and thought most of the writing was shit and weirdly focused on rape, and the more I hear about Thales the more this seems like it is too.

>>18643408
I think I saw a book yesterday

>>18643408
Spellwright

>>18644731
Well GRRM is shit always. I tried Wild Cards too. (Five finger discount. But like five chapters in, I took it back) Asprin, from my Myth Adventures reading was just silly fun. I say try the first book.

Also might like scifi Stainless Steel Rat series. It gets formulaic too, but it was fun reading in my opinion.

Any fantasy books with Hindu/more indian buddhist aesthetics, they don't need to be indian written and not the Mahabharata please

>>18644916
i have never seen you in this general before until the past day or two; what gives?

>>18644921
It’s not getting the attention it craves in outer /lit/, so it’s come here to trouble us with its aberrant shitposting.

Post Wojacks and frogs to banish the butter-beast.

>>18644921
I used to read scifi and fantasy a lot when I was you her. I pop in here from time to time.

>>18644944
Off by miles, as usual.

>>18644921
I used to read scifi and fantasy a lot when I was younger. I pop in here from time to time.

>>18644944
Off by miles, as usual.

>>18644387
Khellus filters brainlets. Imagine if Bakker didn't include Khellus' POV like he originally intended.

>>18643837
>The other half is "piracy" which was far less what I wanted. It wouldn't have been a problem if it was done well, but it's in quotes because I didn't think it was.
Care to elaborate? Was it just boringly written or was it more a terrible attempt at the swashbuckling genre?

>>18644920
What do you mean by indian aesthetics? Brown people? Caste system?

>>18645033
You know exactly what I mean.
I'm sure some good fantasy with this aesthetic exists.

>>18645039
>>18644920
Not trying to overly shill Bakker here, but it’s topical. Much of the Three Seas culture in Eärwa had a Near East/Babylonian/Indian feel complete with brown people, caste system, and elaborate polytheistic religion. The nation of Nilnamesh is clearly meant to resemble Vedic/Medieval India.

>>18645010
Most of the time they are only playing at pirates and the rest of the time its only the trappings of piracy. All the actual piracy is told in passing as stuff that happened.

>>18644920
>>18645039
Lord of Light, it's great

>>18645263
>Lord of Light
Shit this looks great thanks.

>>18643398
I'm working on a setting where everything has a corresponding spirit, a bit like a combination of Plato and Shinto, with a hierarchy where each spirit is aligned with at least one of several spirits at the top of the hierarchy, who are essentially the gods of the setting. The thing is, I'm stuck on what aspects of existence should get a spirit at the very top of things, and I don't want to have too many to keep things from getting too complicated. I'm thinking that there'd be at least one that came into being relatively recently, corresponding to mortal thought and emotions as they grew to prominence and new spirits corresponding to them sparked into existence, but besides more abstract things like time, space, gravity, and so on, do you have any ideas on how I can divide things please? For clarity, think of the hierarchy of being more like the relationship between cells and organs within the "body" of existence. Basically, the spirit of say, a leaf on a tree, will be so low down the totem pole in terms of intelligence (so much so that it's dubious that it 'can' think any more than the leaf itself could) and power that any kind of attempt at communication or using it in magic is an epic waste of time and energy. But all the leaves, while separate, are still part of the tree, whose own spirit will have more power and intellect, though most would still not be sapient. Similarly, the tree is a individual living thing, but still part of the forest as a whole, and the spirit of the forest will thus have more power than every tree combined, since it's also composed of the animals, fungi, etc. Similarly, the spirit of a single stone would be below the spirit of a mountain that it rests upon, which is dwarfed by the spirit of the mountain 'chain', and which in turn is only a part of the spirit of the 'continent', and so on. Make sense?

>>18645286
You could make a panethon maybe of like 6-15 higher spirits.

>>18645286
So would there be a spirit of all forests then? A spirit of all mountains?
You could do things like a spirit of nature or get more abstract and make it something like a spirit of growth or regeneration.

>>18643398
Just started reading Dunsany's 'The King of Elfland's Daughter'.

Recommend good xanxia, read RI and few others

>>18643398
What outlining tool(s) do you use and why? Do you use picture related, or would you recommend something else?

Brandon Sanderson

Trying to read the Expanse here
do you guys bother with the short stories?
do you read it in chronological order, or do you just finish the entire series and read all the short stories in one go.

>>18643416
The Broken Sword by Poul Anderson

>>18643764
Lords of Dyscrasia
>LORDS OF DYSCRASIA is truly unique and deeply, deeply weird. Reading it means being immersed in a different reality, one with all the exquisite newness and strange deja vu you might find in a dream. The narrator does little to handhold you through the weirdness either, and parts of the story are beautifully elliptical. The imagery is baroque, eldritch, and horrifying. Here we find the magic wombs of divine and undying insectoid matriarchs used as forges infernal; sentient fogs from which mutilated bodies dangle like gems on a crystal chandelier; crowds of worshippers whose pierced bodies are linked by bloody strands of musically vibrating thread. The rich imagery is everywhere present, as is an atmosphere of deep and uncompromising horror.

>>18645456

I keep seeing this post, repeted in every new iteration of this general, get a tripcode already so I can filter you.

>>18645574
What short stories?

Obviously read in correct order, but after the first two books it goes downhill really fast so just prepare yourself

Redwall but Grimdark

>>18644920
Later Black Company books, I think?

>>18645643
the minor entries here
https://www.goodreads.com/series/56399-the-expanse

>>18645736
>Redwall but Grimdark

>>18645795
Hmm, I would just drop it, as I said the series got progressively worse, releasing short stories and few side books is not going to help it.

>>18645637
Wow that sounds perfect.
Thanks so much anon.

>No replies in 24 hours.
ok, guess I'll see you guys in another few days.

bye

/gfg/ coming soon

>>18645884
Based. Haven't read it myself yet, but the review I read made it sound absolutely insane in a good way.

>>18645087
That's so lame. So what were the segments then? Just them at shore in pubs? Or sailing and talking?

Thoughts on the assassin's apprentice series?

>>18646132
its shit

>>18643764
The dying Earth books by Jack Vance
Boy in Darkness by Mervyn Peake
A Wild Ride through the night by Walter Moers
(Any book by walter moers actually)
The Cosmicomics by Italo Calvino
Cyberiad and Robot Tales by Stanislav Lem
Alfanhuí by Rafael Ferlosio

patrick gnomefuss

>darkness that comes before
is it really that good? should I read it?

>>18646188
Yes.
At least read it so you can keep up with the discourse in this thread.

>MC is a retired veteran soldier traveling through the forest
>comes upon a fully armored female knight about to be killed by 3 bandits somehow
>kills two with his bow saving her
>female knight proceeds to yell at him for taking so long to shoot, for missing one of the bandits, and for not immediately realizing that she was a woman when he stared at her manface
>then proceeds to yell at him for not offering to ride her out of the forest, then yells at him even more when MC tells her to pay for his service since he was tired of his shit but knew she'd die if he left her
Why do they write women like this? is this their idea of "strong" women?

>>18646188

>>18646093
You got it.

>>18646188
No, it isn't good. literally no one here talks about outside a few discord fags who shoehorn it in every discussion.

>>18646237
What book? ASoIaF?

>>18643416
Swordspoint, pretty much every book in the Chalion series including the Penric novellas, The Ladies of Mandrigyn, Imager books (only read the first trilogy and the sequence starting with Scholar but both have integral romances) and The Queen of Attolia (have to read the first book to get to the sequel with romance but it's worth it)

Those are all some of my favourite books ever.
For other stuff with Romances I liked there's Kill the Queen, Imperials series by Snodgrass, Unnatural Magic (which would make the top list if it was only focused on the human/troll romance POV, the other one is a bit more boring)

Web Shifters by Czerneda is pointedly a first friendship instead of a romance but it's a wonderful work of character writing.
Finally Blacktongue Thief has a cute romance but I haven't finished that so there's every chance it's a minor arc that doesn't end well for the lovers.

>>18646246
>>18646239
Motivated Bakker-fudders who are determined (why?) to cuck you out of reading the most interesting fantasy series of the 21st century.

>>18646249
No. There's only one female knight in ASoIaF and she's nothing like that. That almost sounds more like a typical tsundere-type cunt from a light novel than anything.

>>18643636
Glen Cook has a gigantic magical detective series that nobody reads.

>>18646245
Man what a waste. Did he try to do a book about pirates and then realize he didn't know anything about sailing or piracy or what?

>>18646293
He also has a pretty huge alt-historical fantasy series that I never see anybody talk about but that I love to death for its portrayal of the era its set in and the fun I had trying to untangle the places it referenced due to the world being just different enough it wasn't immediately obvious where it was.. Mostly when you bring him up it's just Black Company.

>>18646280
>heroes of might and magic with hamfisted philosophy and sex scenes

>>18644281
>Anyone read the Grisha stuff? I have to say the Netflix show was enjoyable.
It's decent YA but it's also her weakest work by far, it's very predictable.
Six of Crows and everything after is a big step up

>>18646132
It's incredible but if you're going in expecting a flashy master assassin you'll probably hate it.
Hobb's way of developing characters through suffering and failure is much harder to read than grimdark stuff if you don't engage with it and just want it to be over to get to the payoff and she does that in pretty much everything I've read.

>>18646311
>heroes of might and magic
Dumb forced meme

>>18646188
Read the prologue and if you like it then keep reading. Make up your own mind.

>>18646336
Hobb's obsession with making her characters suffer really makes me wonder what sort of horrible trauma she's dealt with

>>18646458
So I'm on the first pages and sheome bard raped a child...?

Read The Doors of His Face, the Lamps of His Mouth. It's about fishing on Venus.

>>18646300
Oh, no, it's filled with sailing stuff.

>>18646508
>catholic church
>autobiographical
>gnostic depiction of the universe as a site of universal and unnecessary harm
putting that on page 2 was obviously intentional as a way to introduce you to what is to come. bakker didn’t write his books to give you a comfy escape from reality, anon.

"M-m-master, when I was on the Quasar I had a paracoita, a doll, you see, a genicon, so beautiful with her great pupils as dark as wells, her i-irises purple like asters or pansies blooming in summer, Master, whole beds of them, I thought, had b-been gathered to make those eyes, that flesh that always felt sun-warmed. Wh-wh-where is she now, my own scopolagna, my poppet? Let h-h-hooks be buried in the hands that took her! Crush them, Master, beneath stones. Where has she gone from the lemon-wood box I made for her, where she never slept at all, for she lay with me all night, not in the box, the lemon-wood box where she waited all day, watch-and-watch, Master, smiling when I laid her in so she might smile when I drew her out. How soft her hands were, her little hands. Like d-d-doves. She might have flown with them about the cabin had she not chosen instead to lie with me. W-w-wind their guts about your w-windlass, stuff their eyes into their mouths. Unman them, shave them clean below so their doxies may not know them, their lemans may rebuke them, leave them to the brazen laughter of the brazen mouths of st-st-strumpets. Work your will upon those guilty. Where was their mercy on the innocent? When did they tremble, when weep? What kind of men could do as they have done - thieves, false friends, betrayers, bad shipmates, no shipmates, murderers and kidnappers. W-without you, where are their nightmares, where are their restitutions, so long promised? Where are their chains, fetters, manacles, and cangues? Where are their abacinations, that shall leave them blind? Where are the defenestrations that shall break their bones, where is the estrapade that shall grind their joints? Where is she, the beloved whom I lost?"

Unforgettable

>>18646573
w-what is it…?

>>18646557
Fuck it then, I'm not reading some autistic sperging written by a pseudo "philosopher".

>>18646597
never finished his phd btw

>>18646188
Depends. If you voted for Biden or think Sandersöí is an example of good prose then it's too advanced for you. If you can appreciate the nuance inherent in paleolithic cannibal rape monsters or you just like bent dicks then give it a shot. There is no in-between

>>18646583
The Book of the New Sun by Gene Wolfe, the that quote has always really stuck with me. It captures a certain madness and tells a fascinating story in a single (seemingly unimportant at the time) paragraph of dialogue. I might post my other favorite part later but it is longer - the tale of the Redoubt of the Magicians (read in the Autarch's palace/dungeon).

>>18646573
>This passage was paid for by the Greg Abbott Campaign for Texas

>>18646671
the entire book reads like sparknotes of an actual book

>>18646573
I really need to do a re-read with a copy of the Lexicon Urthus in hand. I love Wolfe's used of in-universe language but I always wonder how much of the meaning is lost on my pea-brain

The part in Sword & Citadel where the kid dies after touching the giant ring and then turns into ashes when Severian tries to help him was way funnier than it should have been

What are some of your favorite books that lean toward the schlocky side of things?
For me, I absolutely love The Dark Elf Trilogy.

>>18646900
This is the ultimate generic fantasy quest but I still like it

>>18646818
Didn't realize that existed, will need to have that handy next time I read it as well.

Is he right? Context: dumb gobliness calls Bakker a sexist and says his magic system in Second Apocalypse lacks depth

>>18647752
>reading comprehension
She gave him a glowing review you absolute brainlet.

>>18646671

>Golgotterath is Finland
>Zeüm is England

WE W–

>>18647760
No shit. The comment was in response to a YouTube review where the reviewer calls Bakker a sexist and says his magic system is shit.

>>18647776
DAS RITE
>>18647752
Yes

I really really like Neal Stephenson, I think I've read most by him now and enjoyed it all, even D.O.D.O

>>18644986
maybe the series would have had a chance at being good then

The best series ever?

>>18644462
The first and foremost reason to get into Gor is for the maledom/femsub fetish. I do like the series for that, but I'll admit that it's otherwise just a mediocre science fantasy sword and sorcery romp at best. It won't blow your mind with its prose or its plots or world building or whatever, but it has it's place as one of the few fantasy series going completely against the contemporary trend of female empowerment.

>>18647966
>Halt, turkroach!
>Why don't you try and rape someone your own size

>>18644462
>>18647966
John Norman is absolutely fucking BASED. The father you get into series the more philosophically complex it becomes. You could, of course, just read it for the fap material though

>Still pumping out novels at 90 despite being blacklisted by the industry
>Actually received his philosophy PhD (from Princeton) unlike curved weiner senpai
>Professor of philosophy until his retirement
>Has made feminists SEETHE for almost 60 years

>>18644193
I always knew "she" is a man.

>>18645426
>good xianxia
It's all so boring, chinks are too repetitive. Western xianxia is slightly better, with Beware of Chicken being the best of the bunch (but still not great, just good).
>>18645736
Now that's a good cover, even if the idea it portrays is kinda off-putting.
>>18646132
Go ahead if you like the idea of MC getting cucked by his father figure. In general it's exactly what you could expect from a book written by a woman.

>>18648163
This. I hope he lives to be 100 and beyond, Norman is a national treasure. I don't expect to see another madlad like him arise in my lifetime.

>>18645736
>cover tries to make the Captain anthropomorphic instead of a regular animal like everyone else

I’ve just finished reading Dune, should I pick up the sequels or go read something else?

>>18646597
Congrats, you're the second anon this week to be filtered by the prologue.

>>18648276
Read the two following sequels, after that, ask yourself if still wanna read it.

>>18648276
Man up and read everything by Frank.

>>18643903
i read the trilogy many moons ago, can barely remember it but remember it being not bad, just mediocre. very heavily and obviously ASOIAF influenced.
i remember the villain being a pretty interesting character, but not being so keen on the protagonist(s).

>>18644920
i'll second Lord of Light
there's a near future sci-fi book called River of Gods by Ian McDonald, i haven't read it yet but it has good reviews
>>18645263
if you liked that i'd recommend Creatures of Light and Darkness also by Zelazny

>>18644920
Thirding Lord of Light. There are also a few Conan stories that take place in Hyborian India

>>18646508
>today I will read the most grimdarkest tome of grimdarkness
>wtf it had rape in it!!!
Why does this happen?

>>18643764
The Book of All Hours by Hal Duncan? It's a duology, first book is called Ink and 2nd is called Vellum.
Jerusalem by Alan Moore?
The Night Circus by Erin Morgenstern?
Not sure if any of these are exactly what you're after but they're all interesting reads nontheless.

>>18645637
this sounds great, just ordered it

>>18643764
The Divinity Student by Michael Cisco, and its sequel The Golem. If you don't want ebooks, they're in print in a single volume titled The San Veneficio Canon.

>>18648522
>today I will read the most grimdarkest tome of grimdarkness
bakkerfags everyone

Are there any western cunny novels (that aren't anti pedo, like Lolita and the like)?
SFF seems like the best place for it, since you can have magical/technological legal age lolis.

What is the "start with the greeks" of science fiction?

>>18648628
start with the classics

>>18648628
start with tolkien

>>18648623
Well that's basically what it is. Do you know of something more grimdark? I don't.

>>18648628
I don't think SF has a meme as stupid as that.

>>18647752
Bakker's magic system is alright. It is sort of novel. I had the same idea of making magic a sort of philosophical system, but I was going to make it central to the plot. For Bakker, it's just window dressing on ineffable magic. Magic gets described as "abstraction," "analogy," and "geometries" but the only look we get at this is when Akka is teaching magic and it isn't super detailed anagogic and Gnosis are just fancy words to dress up what is a fairly conventional magic system in practice.

The philosophy gets on well enough, but the core revolves around Khellus and describing a Dennett style view of conciousness and determinist elimitavism. But then Bakker wants to have epic magic too, so he includes demons and a trancendental soul that survives death, a proven afterlife, and proven system of sin and damnation. The two don't exactly mix, unless the point is simply to take easy shots at Abrahamic salvation in light of apparent determinism, which doesn't do much because the religion of Bakker doesn't include the mechanism of repentance, forgiveness, and salvation that those real religions have, nor to they accept the premises of elimitavism, which are hardly confirmed facts.

I kind of feel like it's two different stories for the purposes of philosophy. Epic fantasy with its own dark, almost Beserk-like view of supernatural powers as primarily demonic, and then the Khellus narrative that essentially repackages his elimitavism from Neuropath with much better dialogue and more depth. Also, for all the bad shit Khellus does, you can sort of justify it with utilitarianism due to the Consult being so bad, whereas Niel in Neuropath is just totally unlikeable.

Which isn't to say I didn't enjoy it or think it's at the top of the genre, just that it isn't the holistic developed message some really great authors have delivered in novels, more two different narratives. The look inside other Dunyain later in the second series had some promise with their search for a Hegelian absolute knowing, but he abandons that pretty quickly, likely because it is too hard to write and develop.

The over the top graphic violence and sex is a bit of a distraction, and the female characters are written quite flat in the first three books. That's a fair critique.

>>18648628
Start with Jules Verne and H. G. Wells. You might be tempted to think Shelley is required too, but it's acceptable to skip her on account of her being a woman and early feminist. No doubt you have at some point seen some shlocky movie version or other of Frankenstein and that's perfectly sufficient.

>>18648735

Incel

>>18648735
Chad.

>>18648739
Seethe, cope and dilate, troon.

>>18648628
Used to be Dunsany, Eddison, Mirlees, Howard, Vance, Tolkien.
But the old generation is gone in /lit/

>>18648671
>elimitavism
Are you trying to spell eliminativism?

>>18648735
>No doubt you have at some point seen some shlocky movie version or other of Frankenstein and that's perfectly sufficient.
You've clearly never read Frankenstein if you think Shelley's original shares more than the premise with most dumb Frankenstein movies.

>>18648640

>>18648794
naw

Is YA just made up as a tag?
There's some fantasy stuff I've read that absolutely fits into the subgenre i.e. it's all about 14 year olds coming of age with the usual revolution/becoming a royal plot.
But then there's some stuff I've read that just comes off as good fantasy with mature themes central to the plot and handled seriously. And then when I go to add it on goodreads or whatever I see it's labled as YA and a bit of googling shows it's even pushed by the publisher as such.

I try to avoid YA wherever possible because the formulaic stuff is the absolute worst fantasy going but I do wonder if some stuff is slipping through the cracks after it gets tagged as YA to sell to that audience.

>>18648897
>But then there's some stuff I've read that just comes off as good fantasy with mature themes central to the plot and handled seriously. And then when I go to add it on goodreads or whatever I see it's labled as YA
Such as?

>>18648897
all genres are made up
it's just a general tag for any and everything that a teen turning adult might like
they're still coming to terms with the fact that they're technically adults but haven't realized yet that age is just a number and maturity comes from within.

>>18648897
> if some stuff is slipping through the cracks after it gets tagged as YA
Not a lot.
If (technically) non-YA gets pushed as YA, it's usually with good reason. Ease of reading, accessible, non-controversial, etc.
And sometimes an otherwise talented writer decides to write YA for whatever reason.

But there are also some people trolling Goodreads listing Deadhouse Gates and Childrens fiction and Middle Grade fiction for example.
https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/55401.Deadhouse_Gates

I've also listed some explicit transgressive fiction as YA and Childrens fiction in the past.

>>18648905
Queen's Thief is the most obvious one. Maybe they thought the first book fit under YA but everything after that fulfills like none of the subgenre indicators

>>18648897
Yes. Ender's Game for instance isn't any more complex in terms of writing than The Hunger Games, the difference is mostly marketing. Also if you plan to market something as YA, you will cut down on complex prose and graphic content.

LOTR is an example of a book that is often read by kids in middle school and early high school, but I wouldn't exactly call it YA.

It also has to do with the target audience to some degree. Something like Twilight is obviously aiming at high school or early college aged girls. Whereas the more adult version you see in A Discovery of Witches, isn't necissarily written with that much more complexity, but is targeting older women who can self identify with a PhD student instead of a high schooler. It's a blurry line though, like Drizzt books I read at like 11-13, but aren't necessarily kids books, but are accessible to kids.

Some YA is pretty good. The Hunger Games was a fun little ride, except the third book was shit. Red Rising is enjoyable action, and was originally edited for a YA audience but found commerical success with adults, so they reverses course on the editing.

Or tl;dr, it is all branding. Sometimes there is crossover too. Like Buffy was aimed sort of at teens, but remained a successful TV show by pulling in an adult audience too, whereas shit like Twilight generally only appeals to teens.

https://youtu.be/0AlaXV7875U?t=621
>10:20
AHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

>>18649075
did her opinions actually trigger you this much?
how many times have you posted this now

>>18649075
Oh no someone didn't like the Shartness that comes before

>>18649096
Scott has a hard time letting criticism go. That's why he is here 12 hours a day defending his book instead of writing the new ones. Sad, very many cases.

>>18649096
>how many times have you posted this now
First time actually.

>>18645286
It reminds me of this movie, for some reason.

>>18648794
Nah.

>>18648897
Problem is the idea of YA has really changed from decades. Nowadays it just means "simpler books mainstream readers are into".

>>18649075
Not watching all of that shit, but her S tier category is pretty decent. Recognising that Hyperion, Endymion, LotR, Hobbit and Dune are all great books should be pretty obvious, yet some people get still filtered by any of them.

Anyone here read the rest of the shit she put in there? Ninth House; Dreams of the Dying; The Shadow of the Gods and Piranesi?
More inclined to check them out after the list.

>>18649241
part of the reason why I watch booktubers
I just read random shit they recommend
but nah, I haven't checked those out yet

>when the anti-bakker anon says there are only two or three bakkerfags but I know I am the fourth

What's /sffg/'s favorite harem web fiction? Wherein a chad accumulates babes

>>18649284
Mother of Learning is alright.

Is this /ourbook/?

>>18649322
>Women ruin everything : The Trilogy
Yeah

>>18647929
(you)

>>18649313
I really didn't like Mother of Learning. It feels like almost the worst execution of a time loop possible: using all the loops to grind and waste time.

What's /sffg/'s opinion on the Penguin Galaxy boxed set?

>>18649498
they look cool

>>18649498
they look ugly

>>18649498
>with an introduction by kneel gay man
I'll pass.

>>18649498
>hardcover

Those are books meant just to look nice in a shelf not be comfortably read.

>>18649567

>>18645456
Is he actually worth reading or is he the next normie Fantasy author that midwits shill for?

>>18648640
Literally Warhammer 40k.

>>18649972
Normie stuff. He writes anime + capeshit + YA romances. Also he is the worldbuilding autism on places like reddit personified. Only touch if you want to stay in touch if you run out of actually good stuff.

Although one thing I must confess, I love that he seperates book 1/2/3 inside his works by chapter long intermissions of random NPCs. If I am ever gonna make it I am gonna steal that, goes much further than the random philosophy quotes at the start of chapters that many authors use for making the reader familiar with your world.

>>18649972
He's writing superhero comics/movies distilled into a fantasy book

>>18649567
Ok and?

>>18649498
It's like Easton Press moved into a trailer park and started sucking off a weird English dude for liberty dimes.

>>18650172
They are no good

>>18650210
They're good for shelves

>>18650217
Not for reading

>>18650219
Sure but they still have a reason to exist

>>18650231
A bad reason

>>18650236
Supporting the authors of books you liked is bad?

>>18650238
If he doesn't release a comfortable book for me to read then he only deserve my anger.

>>18650217
Not even, they're just ugly block colors with no sense of aesthetics at all. Give me classic paperback art any day.

>>18650243
It's not gonna get much more comfortable than an e-reader at this point, and the only reason to actually buy a book is if you've already pirated, read and liked it or if it's a series you're already invested in and know no matter what you'll want the next book even if you end up reading it digitally

>>18648624
Seems like nobody has the knowledge and the balls to answer me.

>>18650297
Vile pedo pervert scum like you should be hunted down and forcibly castrated with rusty implements. In Diablo II of course.

>>18650297
Try manga you fucking pedo

>>18650015
>>18650048
Where's the capeshit comparison coming from?

>>18650297
Your post was so retarded I overread it.
The Belgariad is fast simply shlocky fantasy and there is a village of dryads who are female only, rape men to procreate, look like children, the Gandalf type character gives them candy for sexual favours and the main hero marries their redhead princess.
That enough cunny for your taste?
All fade to black YA style, so fairly simply to overlook if you do not care for it, but Belgariad has not that much else to offer.

>>18649313
He doesn't get a harem, the writing made me think the author is closeted fag. It was better than most web novels, but certainly nowhere near the best. The cult following always seems like a joke to me.

>>18650332
It dawned on me when Kaladin literally made a superhero landing in book 3 or so. Then I saw Sandersons writing playlist on spotify, half is marvel soundtracks, half is indie videogames like Bastion. And now he does the 10 books series + everything is a fucking multiverse with cameos shit, straight outta MCU.
Can't really take the series seriously anymore after that, although I copingly still hope that Way of Kings is decent standalone fantasy.

>>18650336
>ywn be kidnapped and gang raped for your seed by a group of magical dryad's that look like 12-15 year old girls
Why was I put in this shitty reality?

>>18650332
Power fantasies, flat characters, middle school prose, unchallenging themes, and a focus on sheer output more than any sort of depth.

It's popular because the audience doesn't have to think for a second about it and it demands nothing from them. Just turn your brain off, bend over and take his rock hard magic system.

>>18650352
>half is marvel soundtracks
mistborn1 on spotify has 3 public playlists with 3 marvel songs between them and one solitary song from Bastion, ie. you looked at the first few songs in one playlist and hurriedly confirmed your biases based on that
>multiverse
there IS actual capeshit influence in this but not from the MCU, rather he's hearkening back to actual comic books from the last century that began having shared universes between publishers, he admits so much in many signings and interviews
>>18650364
Which books have you read?

In what order to I read the Drizzt books? Do I start with the Icewind Dale trilogy of with the Dark Elf trilogy?

>>18648202
>It's all so boring
Yes, but not having faggots, sjw and progressive agenda, and often not even any romance makes up for it

>>18650448
Stormlight 1, half of 2, and one of his novellas. I've read a few other snippets of the writing and plenty of other people talking about him and it doesn't seem like any of his other works are much different.

The way people talk about Way of Kings, specifically Kaladin and his mental health, makes it seem like it's something super groundbreaking, where in reality it's painfully average. Outside of that, he felt like an unironic Mary Sue. The world, while certainly large, felt two-dimensional, and the magic, while novel, was overexplained and left little to the imagination.

>>18650352
>half is indie videogames like Bastion
To be fair, Bastion has an amazing soundtrack

>STOP SAYING THAT SANDERSON IS A BAD WRITER!!!!

>>18650543
>Yes, but not having faggots, sjw and progressive agenda, and often not even any romance makes up for it

Drawfag here. Taking requests for one or two drawings. But only if you give me good and doable suggestions.

Bakker/Tolkien only today.

>>18650448
Dude:
https://open.spotify.com/playlist/3rtnFXYtZU5V2vXThMrAgE?si=3e356e29aee74efb
tell me this isn't the playlist of a manchild
if he uses this while writing it is not wonder it influences it
>>18650786
They are pretty good, I like Transistors soundtrack. But vidya soundtracks are for listening once in a while when you get the craving, not for putting them in a fucking work playlist you are gonna listen to for hundreds of hours

But overall the multiversum bullshit is the biggest dealbreaker, a big part of why I can't stand capeshit in general. I can life with
>>18650364
>Power fantasies, flat characters, middle school prose, unchallenging themes, and a focus on sheer output more than any sort of depth.
sheerly for how cool some of his ideas are (king who's IQ varies radically day by day, race which can change forms according to songs, magic system based on laymans understand of Quantum theory, massive version of cracked african agrarian soil as a battle map with bridge crews etc), but having to read fifteen gazillion novels to get a proper conclusion while I could be reading much better and much more concise authors and all time classics is just a bad deal all around

>>18651365
have you read The Gods of Pegana? draw Skarl playing the drum, or Yun-Ilara lying at the base of his tower after Mung ignores him. or anything else from that book really

if not, some scene from Turin's story, i don't think there's much art of it

I just want to see the fellowship chilling out and having a good time.
is that too much to ask

>>18651608
>>18651404
shit

>>18651365
Can you please draw Esmenet at her window in Sumna, or Inrilatas chained?

>>18651858
no

>>18651866
Why? Did it trigger you that much when Inrilatas killed Esmenet?

>>18651908
no

>>18645424
Really wanna start hunting after reading this.

>>18650529
Publication order. Icewind Dale trilogy. Wulfgar was originally meant to the protagonist and Drizzt only a side character.

Any good newish fantasy?
Preferably with elves.

Also what the fuck is this new retarded captcha?

>>18652174
It’s okay. Hate the “4” though.
Elvish erotica fantasy?

>>18652170
>>18652174
>>18652528
So very much excessively digitally altered.

What should I read?

>>18652666
Paradise Lost

This series is all I ever need in fantasy. Scott who?

>>18652569
Not the one I posted, sister.

>>18643398
I'm stuck on some setting names, what are some places that I can go to for inspiration, please? What other advice do you have?

>>18652862
what culture are you basing your setting on

Is The Martian worth actually reading?

>>18652888
read it and find out.

>>18652888
I liked it
very casual, conversational prose, if you like space and solving space problems you shouldn't have too bad of a time with it.

>>18652862
Pic related is a good source of things to rip off without anybody realizing

>>18652891
There's like 1000 other books on my read list though, so I'm always looking to narrow it down. I only ask because it's free on audible right now and I'm trying to decide what to listen to next.

>>18651365
Saubon looking at himself.

If you know you know.

If not that, perhaps a depiction of the Throwing of the Hulls, or whatever the glossary entrance was that was essentially Kellhus throwing ships at a city until they submitted.

>>18652936
no

>>18649498
The Ace Books hardcover of Dune is so much better.

>>18652948
it looks so much better without the hardcover in my opinion

>>18652952
>without the hardcover
*dustcover

>>18652952

>FEAR IS THE
>MIND
>KILLER

Your opinion is cringe and sewage

>>18653042
you bought the book, dude

>>18653045

bought it as a gift for a very impressionable, social-media gen person. It's a beautiful edition in almost every way, but the embossing is so cringe that it rules out my owning a copy.

>>18649498
I don't really get the appeal of fancy editions for genre fiction. A paperback with a tacky cover was good enough for people in the past so it is good enough for me.

I've finished reading the Silmarillion, the Hobbit, the Lord of The Rings and all of the History of Middle-Earth. In that order. Now that I'm done with Tolkien-style fantasy- what do I read now? Can still be fantasy, just not the traditional kind. Give me ideas because I don't have a reading list.

>>18653073
The appeal is that it's physical proof of genre fiction having crawled out of the ghetto and having fought its way into the canon, whether litficfags like it or not.

>>18653085
Book of the New Sun

>>18648555
Based

>>18653085
The Throne of Bones by Brian McNaughton

>>18644920
how has nobody said Earthsea? based Ursula K. LeGuin

>>18653682
No key here reads. That’s why.

>>18653957
It’s astounding to know that people here still believe people here read.

>>18653682
>based Ursula K. LeGuin
Because she’s a woman and /sffg: and by extension /lit/ doesn’t read female authors. Also, some anons here think she’s sjw or some shit.

>>18654059
>Also, some anons here think she’s sjw or some shit.
Wasn’t that because she wrote a no -white MC in one of her stories.

>>18654059
>Also, some anons here think she’s sjw or some shit.
Because she literally was, you idiot. She was a shit writer regardless though.

>>18654181
No she isn’t.

Why aren’t you reading Baroque SFF, /lit/?

>>18654223
We don't read books here.

>>18643764
Anything by China Mieville.

>>18654223
>the uncanny = le hauntological !!1!
>not mentioning freud's essays on the 'umheimlich'
midwit tier

>>18647864
I want to like him. His worldbuilding is amazing, and Snow Crash and The Diamond Age were huge inspirations for me. But he can’t finish a book to save his goddamn life. Anathem was probably the closest he got, and even that was rushed.

>>18649313
Mother of learning was super satisfying (I really enjoy progression stories like Cradle), but it went on a bit too long for me.

>>18652918
do it, you won’t regret it

>>18652918
Don't do it, you'll regret it.

>>18649313
Mother of learning is the first webnovel I read and it’s great.

Filtering tripfags is a bit of a pain in the ass with the native extension.
So what about those elves, eh?

>>18654466
What about them?

>>18654466
There are like 10 different German books all called Elfen, Elfenwinter, Elfenlicht and so on. They were pretty shlocky, but I don't think they were too awfull.
They do actually have English translations, they are by Bernhard Hennen. They might be adequate for a dedicated fetishist.

>>18654485
Sounds based, I'll check it out.

>>18654485
>>18654466
I skimmed reviews for the English versions, and it seems they are coming across really well over there. They are called deep and slow (?) complex works with norse mythological touches.
I read them with 12 or so because I thought the cover was cool, but German is a really clumsy and majestic language, so I can imagine they gain in epicness when translated to English.
Well with English speakers liking them that much I wholeheartedly recommend them now, they greatly entertained me back then, and they are miles better than some other German fantasy *cough* Markus Heitz *cough*.
MIght give them a reread one day.

>>18654481
Well they are so annoyingly sexy init guv'?

>>18654485
Fuck no, I ain't reading anything German. I ain't that much of a masochist (or fetishist).

Actually, after battling through mountains of dry technical documentation at work I am looking for some good, newish fantasy novels. Something readable and not too ... annoying, for the lack of a better word.

>>18654520
>Well they are so annoyingly sexy init guv'?
no

>>18654302
Filtered.

>>18651923
At least we know you got filtered.

yes

>>18654578
>filtered
Word has lost its meaning.

>>18654593
I accept your surrender.

>>18654601
I don't care.

>>18654517
Where can I get it.

>>18654611
Amazon.

>>18654551
Fine be like that.

>>18654326
The author really padded the ending.

>>18654652
Eh, the time loop is what dragged the story down.

>>18654657
No, it was the fact that it was jut another story about a unsociable, awkward, introverted, alienated main character in a magical school story for the thousandth time..

>>18654668
There’s certain appeal because of that.

>>18654682
It's a trite, overused, trope.

>>18654684
But it gets readers. And that’s important in a web novel.

>>18654700
Maybe for the first few times, but at this point, nothing distinguish it from the others that pop up.

>>18654593
Is Bakker too hard for you, sweetie?

Why do people consider Bakker difficult/challenging to read?

New thread
>>18654708

>>18654709
Nobody considers it a hard read. Everyone tired of you fucks shoehorning it in every thread by asking the same shit questions.

The Dying Earth is the peak of the fantasy genre and has still never been bested, IMHO. Is there anything similar, aside from BotNS?

>>18644916
Martin isn't shit. So I'll ignore everything else you say.

>>18650448
I don't know why having comic books as an influence is some kind of high grade thing.

They're picture books aimed at children.

>>18653682
did we read the same book? what indian buddhist aesthetics are there in earthsea

>>18654178
don't think so but i heard people complain about tehanu. also i think her scifi books have some weird fag elements, there's an alien race that has no genres or something like that. The Dispossessed had a pretty leftist tone too