/lit/ - Literature

more like an adverbist amirite

more like your wife is a hot little whore, tao. can i borrow her one evening?

i saw that interview and i act pretty much like that in real life
am i autistic
please help me

>>1861204
You aren't joking.
http://muumuuhouse.com/mb.fiction1.html

EVERYONE I'VE HAD SEX WITH
BY MEGAN BOYLE

>>1861204
http://heheheheheheheeheheheehehe.com/

Who is that?

>>1861204

Dumb chink, shoulda just kept fucking bebe zeva.

>>1861260
tao lin

he deserves a pulitzer

hes a literary maverick

>>1861227
Why does this displease me so much? And is she anyone?

>>1861282
>shes a real woman, reestablishing feminist ideals

does this anger you

>>1861286
I laughed heartily.

>>1861286
... Maybe.

Noticing how convoluted all the relationships were and how often they overlapped and how often she fucked brothers and bros, plus that thing with the forced sex while she was drunk and the 'sexual assault' by the ex...

I am just displeased with her existence.

>>1861305
You must not be around many 20-30 year old woman from the city. This is the norm.

>>1861308
I... All of it displeases me. I don't know what I like, but this is not it. I mean, but whatever works for them is good for them. I just don't like it, and want nothing to do with it.

>>1861313
It's the future.

>>1861313
You're just a nerd out of tune with times.

do we know how many people tao lin has had sex with?

>>1861317
... I don't like the future, then. Hence my tubectomy. My line will not carry on. I will not be responsible for this and what comes after.

An hero'ing future generations: 4channers

>>1861327
The circumstances.

>>1861227
I like how some of these are in present tense.

what an idiot
use a condom

>>1861334
>has never experienced the rush of risking a pregnancy

>>1861338
>has never been pregnant

>>1861323
>>1861323
yes? no?

>>1861382
ask him

I wish I was an asian autist and made drug movies with my slutwife

He is not an autist but an arthur

>>1861323
just her

>>1861195
Damn right.

>>1861227
>Anonymous guy: We had sex at a friend's party. I was drunk and I didn't want to and I think I started crying and made him stop.

Oh, hi Tao!

Tao Lin is post-ironic. He's cut through the Gordian knot afflicting his predecessors of 'how can I convey sincerity without foregoing irony?' by simply adapting irony as goofy absurdism. Irony is just a mood you get into. It's not the state of society, or the nature of the universe. It's just a mood. Tao Lin is taken to be a bad writer because he describes exactly what they're like in appropriate language. Another reason people dislike him is not the self-promotion thing, but the fact that he's using the internet as a means to an end, to promote printed books. To the self-validating, self-mythologising internet, for someone to understand the internet and yet not see the internet as an end in itself is blasphemy. You have people thinking that Tao Lin wants to be make himself 'an internet celebrity' by promoting himself here. In fact, he's already way beyond this, in ways that anger them when they think about it. Why wasn't it them who had this career, if Tao Lin has mananged it so easily? Because they never thought to have faith in literature, that's why. Tao Lin shows every sign of never having questioned the survival of the book, and he takes his cue from blue-collar 'K-Mart realists' while embracing untried subject matter and modes of consciousness that classify him as an avant-garde writer - two good reasons to resent him for the modish, entitled people who think themselves 'hip'.

Strangely I mostly like Tao Lin while not being him, I see his writing as being experimental/ in character as a semi autistic / disconnected narrator and though that would in no way replace great literature you can have both and it is an interesting enough position from which to explore some subjects / situations like, in Richard Yates the disconnection that can be felt in a long term relationship when you're primarily communicating in a disconnected online way and how that would play out if that way of connecting continued in all situations.

There's a lot of dark humor in it, also a lot of observational melancholy and to some extent awkwardly real in a way that very wordy literature would find it very hard to achieve because when you're reading a fully plotted novel you feel some sense of plot, Lin's characters are directionless, when you're reading a eloquently written novel the narrator feels smart, secure and confident in their heads, even if in many cases not their actions, and are fairly comfortable to inhabit despite their actions, Lin's aren't. His narrator has the space to be a total prick and in doing so make you feel like one in association. Its uncomfortable to read, awkward and kinda really really sad but thats the whole conceit of the piece. It's supposed to make you feel that.

>>1861889
I love you Tao but I'll never buy your books. :-/

>>1861889
>>1861885
I agree. Tao Lin basically does everything David Foster Wallace wished he could do, and better.

>>1861893
I'm not Tao Lin you piece of shit. This meme is fucking old as fuck.

Fuck. Be clever or something, I'm trying to offer a genuine critic of the man's work.

http://muumuuhouse.com/mb.fiction1.html

What the flying fuck.

This is his wife.

>>1861920
Tao you're the only person on here that's even seen a copy of your books. We all know it

>>1861920

the drabness of your prose is just very similar to his, settle down

>>1861920

this is 4chan dude. Even on /lit/ it's like talking to the smartest retards at the retard factory.

>>1861923
>>1861925
ha ha i am going to post in a tao lin thread and call everyone tao lin

tee hee hee

lolz xD

hoo hoo hee hee

>>1861946
Anger doesn't suit you.

>>1861946
I'm not sure if you're trolling or serious. Maybe you're new here, but that's what happens in every tao lin thread because tao lin is the only one who makes tao lin threads.

But also, I love your perseverance tao. [/tao]

>>1861951
>>1861949
It's a shame that what would be considered the most well-read and articulate board on 4chan is so fucking boring and dumb.

Seriously, go post in a Quentin thread you useless sacks of shit. That's all you're good at.

>>1861958
Why do memes rile you so?

Step back, take a breather.

>>1861923
bullshit. I saw one of his books in a barnes and noble last week.

>>1861923
I got shoplifting from american apparel from the library

they had eee eee eeeee

I was surprised

>>1861958
This thread is functionally similar to a Quentin thread, so I'm probably pretty good here too. Did you actually want a reasoned response to your shallow, "Tao Lin is actually just new and hip" analysis? These ideas aren't original at all. They go at least as far back as Samuel Beckett, who was a much better writer as well.

spoiler

>>1861966
Who said they were original ideas? Who said Beckett wasn't better?

I'm just trying to take /lit/ a notch above full retard. If you're going to make the 9001st thread about Tao Lin, let's at least do something fucking different.

If you're going to be funny, at least be funny.

>>1861885
>he takes his cue from blue-collar 'K-Mart realists'
So you're implying he'll die slowly as he starts losing to his just-as-shitty competitors?

>>1861966
>Samuel Beckett, who was a much better writer as well.
They're both writers who were chronically afflicted by the decadent sickness of their respective ages. maybe one was better at gift-wrapping that sickness than the other, who cares.

>>1861976
Maybe I've missed something but you appear to be the only humorless poster in this entire thread. Cool, you take tao lin more seriously than everybody else. Pat yourself on the back, tug your dick a little harder tonight. Nobody cares to critique his work because it's totally vapid. It's like a part of the whole "anti-pop" movement; it's tripe turned out for profit that's explicitly "different". If you seriously want to engage in a debate about it maybe you should try making your own thread and not posting in one that is obviously intended to be a joke.

>>1861986
lol you missed the part where that's some old Tao Lin copypasta and you're so butthurt that someone is pretending to take Tao Lin seriously.

Seriously, take your head out of your ass.

>>1861996
Hey! Speak for yourself. He's better than DFW.

This time, tao. I still won't buy your book.

>>1862000
edgy

Is he real?

Is there anyone here who sincerely likes Tao Lin?

If so, what do you see in his books?

I've never read them, and I'm well acquainted with his critics, but I've never met someone on here who likes his work.

>>1862012
And the REAL Tao Lin appears.

Br0 is Tao Lin.

>>1862015
We don't actually discuss Tao Lin here. We just accuse others of being him because it's fucking hilarious when people do that.

I also find it very funny when people ask about Ayn Rand.

>>1862019
why so unhappy?

I've only read his online works but Tao reminds me of Palahniuk in some respects. Is that really his trip? I would love if Tao really did post on /lit/!

>>1862015
yes i like tao lin a lot
i like his books because they are very good]
when i look in his books i see very good

>>1862012

in the sense of "is a person that exists," yeah, but not in the sense of "keeping it real"

>>1862012
yo how many people have you had sex with

60 replies...the over/under on samfagging by Tao and his whore wife is 30.

Im so jelly of Tao Lin. He's my idol.

>>1862076
Wait. They post here?

>>1862084
Apparantly Br0 is him, but no one knows his actual trip so never know if its a fake of not.

His wife seems semi-slutty, I guess. It's the kind of list I would (and have) made, but about other things. Mostly social.

As for whether his books ROX or SUX, I've only read Richard Yates, but it was so-so. A 4.5 / 10.

>>1861922
>Browse around that website
>everyone I've had sex with
>an account of all the drugs I've taken
>a list of my embarrassing moments
The fuck? This is just navel-gazing shit. It feels like these writers don't have anything interesting to say, so they just write titilating shit that appeals to the part of people that likes gossip and personal details. This is the sort of shit that annoying college students will ramble on about when they're drunk, as if their little stories and experiences say something profound about the "human condition" or something. This is lame as fuck, and is not literature.

you know, you can criticize megan boyle's terrible writing without bringing in your bullshit backwards double standards of male and female sexualities

>>1862127

oh hi megan boyle

>>1862093

any time a tao lin thread is started...or any time his name pops up randomly in a thread, it's him (or megan). They're on here constantly.

>>1862177
I know Tao. He actually does go on /lit/.

He's a cool guy, kind of like what you see in the video, a bit of an aspie, but he's nice.

why is his wife a slut
she is kind of an idiot who should use condom more but besides that what is the issue

>>1862324

You know why, Tao.

Tao is from my hometown, I wonder what high school he went to?

>http://muumuuhouse.com/

jesus

the worst part is i imagine these people think they're on the cutting edge of culture or something

>>1862351
why would you assume that
how do you know what they think they are
why do you think everybody is so terrible

>>1862412
stoplikingthingsidontlike.epub

>>1862412
the overburdening self awareness, the extremely designed website, the write-ups for their new publications, the literary fetishism (this isn't new to literature, but the roster of contributors take a perspective on other authors the way national enquirer approaches celebrities), the indexing of their own lives, the publishing of gmail conversations (really?)

i mean

what the hell

>>1862471
indexing your life and all that shit is normal for all people today tho

The lack of capital letters in this thread makes me feel like shit. Use proper capitalization, Anons.

>>1862471

it's an interesting reflection on the whole abolition of privacy thing we're going through at the moment, like they're taking it to an extreme

>2011
>capitalization and punctuation

>>1862518
this

>>1862012

HI TAO!!!

swag swag swag

The only thing I wish Tao did was include the 'alternate' ending in shoplifting from american apparel. I liked how it kinda make the book more well-rounded and not just end on a flat, bleak note.

No matter though, I printed out the computer pages and put them into the book, so that when I read 'shoplifting' I get the ending I prefer.

>>1862675
why can't you just make your own ending. it's not like he's going to come through your window and rape you if you do that.

>>1862680
read my response again you uneducated faggot

tao tweeted this thread 15 mins ago

>>1862690
Tense?

so is this faggot a fucking yuppie, or what?

if only we all had trust funds to live off of while we wrote shitty 'poetry'

i'd let tao stick his dick in my mouth while i would gracefully suck it while he mumbles like a weird fuck

yeah im a guy too, but i'd suck it

>>1862690
no to every word

>>1862710
that is some dude who is 'loosely' connected to lin and other writers and he just like gradated from high school and might still be 17, probably does heroin

i hear his books are really bad, but i haven't read anything

>>1861895
it's interesting that you say that, because I was just thinking that tao lin is sort of trying to say the same things as david foster wallace, but not as well. or at least i like david foster wallace better. he was a virtuosic writer, so there are sentences that make you feel ennui and depression and despair while at the same time you're thrilled and excited to read them because they're so good. tao lin captures a lot of the same emotion, but he does it by making his writing style painful and boring and depressing. which works very well, but i prefer beautiful prose.

the idea is great -to craft the 21st century selfmade man right on the internets; as democratic as it gets here in the most outdated of the arts.
but i do not like the way you write to promote it. your writing is not intrigueing, it is crappy; i don't want to read it anymore, good bye.
in my language there are 2 kinds of new writers since the internets appeared: the first ones are trolls; being fascist and outrageous for the heck of it; and the second kind are people who have genuine talent. one's blogger's book of poetry i even call my own.

GAME OVER
TRY AGAIN!

CREDITS:3

>>1862717
'loosely'?

dude

they are total bros

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TdlT_BFPFL4

>>1862731

http://www.viceland.com/int/v18n6/htdocs/relationship-story.php

are these people junkies or what?

More all-lower case posts: all Tao.

steve roggenbuck

>mfw that video is the most awkward shit ever

>>1862695
swag

>>1862885
>>1862885
That one where he makes a salad?

FUCK. I could barely watch it.

>>1862885
>mfw this is how all my real life interactions play out
>and i'm not even a cool chinaman author

>>1862898

I couldn't decide whether or not I thought the girl was attractive.

>>1862885

>"no, I'm being normal right now"

Why the fuck would someone like Megan Boyle date an autist like Tao Lin

Fuck /lit/, I'm so ronery

http://thoughtcatalog.com/2011/every-time-ive-had-sex-with-megan-boyle-part-1-of/

>>1862934
this is why
http://muumuuhouse.com/mb.fiction1.html

tao is probably a lot less degenerate. being vegan for a while sounds like he's health-conscious at least.

all i have to do is become a famous writer and then i can get a wife too

A documentary on Charles Bukowski by the BBC.
I recorded it off BBC 2 about 15 years or so back.

Tao gets girls by acting autistic and aloof, but then when the girl says "Are you ok?", Tao smiles and says "Yes". Then she rapes Tao because she feels special.

This is how Tao gets vaginas.

>>1862964
do you have to be a well-known author for this to work
i think you probably do

>>1862964
Gotta try that.

>>1862966

Yeah, you gotta have like at least 3,000 twitter followers and one article in a local newspaper.

Also, was Megan Boyle 'raped' or raped (like literally)?

I feel sad.

>>1862971
alright i'm about to get on this shit

>>1862971
no she wasnt raped. she just said yes in an inebriated state. (according to that diary)

tao you've been samefagging this thread all fucking day. don't you have a father???

>>1862976

His dad is probably in China.

>>1862974

That sounds weird.

>>1862731

if you read his latest short story in VICE you'll see him writing in a less relentlessly autistic mode

i don't think he's that special or complicated. you guys are just not educated enough

>>1862973
totally pointless and really just down to luck. either find some source of confidence or go gay bro.

>>1863007
maybe you're not educated enough.

>>1863012
i have okay confidence i'm still socially retarded though

why tweet this

>>1863023
because tao lin is a great man (and author)

>>1863018
not socially.

>>1863014
i know you are but what am i

tao lin is one of my favorite authors. i think he's great.

>>1861192

just found this lol

http://fuckyeahfucktaolin.tumblr.com/
http://fuckyeahfucktaolin.tumblr.com/
http://fuckyeahfucktaolin.tumblr.com/

http://fuckyeahfucktaolin.tumblr.com/

>>1862938
>veganism
>a health-conscious decision

You a funny guy.

This thread is still going since yesterday? You guys are really obssessed with Tao Lin, aren't you? So his wife is a bit of a slut, and he's weird. So what? You say that like there aren't loads of weirdos and slut lites out there,

lol

why do people hate tao lin so much? i don't get what he does that could make people so mad
he seems like a nice enough guy
how do you read a book and then get like "i sure do want to punch this man in the face repeatedly"
what is wrong with you

>>1864191
posing

I totally missed the Tao Lin thing. Can anyone explain how it happened?

>>1864236
One cannot cognize Tao only by speaking about It.

>>1864209

"heeeey! these guys are only pretending to be cool!!"

everyone poses you fucking retard you're just bad at it. hating on people like tao for 'posing' (i.e. being 'hipsters', which really isn't any different from being 'hip') is just a bizarre kind of pathetic resentment which might be excusable if it ever articulated itself as an actual critique. if it's ACTUALLY class privilige you hate about them, then just say it etc. etc.

>>1864249
I accept YouTubes of interpretive dance.

>>1864252
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7JdWDGxjmQA&t=0m49s

>>1864255

hahahahahhahaha

ITT Tao Lin samefags 150+ times
including me

>>1864255
>>1864236 &
>>1864252 here
*golf clap*

I hadn't even heard of Mr Lin until I came to this board. Most readers haven't.

>>1864288

who gives a shit

>>1864251
shut up retard

>>1861885

>post-ironic

holy shit /lit/

>>1864310

God I despise this cunt - some people can make you want to punch them till you rhand breaks just by writing one word. Maybe it's the same for the Tao Lin haters?

>>1861922

It's his wife, but Tao isn't on the list.

mfw

>>1864391

>>1864251
and it's not pretending to be cool it's taking the definition of cool from other people/authority instead of sincerely engaging with the material with your own body and mind. you are definitely a retarded hipster

>>1864421

I haz a question. What do you feel about Communism being Chinawoman and all.

>Anonymous guy: We had sex at a friend's party. I was drunk and I didn't want to and I think I started crying and made him stop.
Anon is legion.

>>1864436
it's a bundle of good intention, great revolutionary zeal, bad policy and incredibly bad understanding of the relationship between ideology and practice.

Worst writer from whom I have ever bought a book, and worst book I have ever bought.
My best way to describe Tao Lin is he tries to write like David Foster Wallace but he has nowhere near the intelligence of DFW nor does he possess skills of writing that are anywhere close to DFW.
I feel bad making this comparison to begin with because it is completely unfair to both writers but it is the best way I can describe Tao Lin to people who have not read him.

>>1864440
How is it good intentions? I think by that you mean helping the majority of the underprivileged class?

>>1864451
"the goal of society should be to facilitate full human flourishing of every member of society"

>>1864454
all else are simply disagreements in method.

>>1864454
Let me make it cleat. i understand your point already in the goodness of their intentions.

Just to debate further, who is anybody to decide what is " full human flourishing of every member of society"?

>>1864471
that seems to be a problem faced by anyone who ever entertains that question, even for herself. it's not a uniquely commie problem for sure and when taken as a social goal we'll have to take into account the flex in that question.

>>1864471

whatup with your all consuming obsession with communism i've only ever seen you make one post that wasn't about communism

>>1864476
Well then. I mean since we can all think (presumably) wouldn't it be best if we all decide what is good for ourselves within a lawful framework?

>>1864481
yes. i never said communism/socialism is not amicable to some kind of personal decision sphere, it is just that this sphere is not justified on an egotistical 'ownership' line of thinking.

further, the individual has a duty to examine the desires and whatnot of others and compromise when necessary. it is simply a part of learning how to live as humans.

>>1864486
What's sp wrong about ownership? And what is your opinion on the issue?

>>1864493
well, it's a unilateral conflict resolution model.

that's all i have time to say for now but basically it's a power structure rather than a discourse/true negotiation

Hardly. It doubt that a power structure would hold under free-trade and consumer laws.

>>1864507
every instantiation of an ownership claim when ownership is understood in the classic sense is simply a declaration of power. it's time efficient, but does not have moral force in itself.

>>1864513
Not so. Isn't morality a normative force? In which case you would DEFINE what is morally acceptable ownership?

i can already see a man's physical and/or intellectual toil to be a good moral standard of ownership.

>>1864517
sighhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh
sighhhhhhhhhh
lunch time for me i'll deal with you later

>169 posts and 14 image replies omitted. Click Reply to view.

/lit/ = /shit/

>>1864409
it's because he's too small

This is Tao Lin. It's 1.18 in the afternoon in Manhattan and I just consumed a large pot of psilocybin mushroom tea and now I'm posting here to tell all of you people: just leave me alone. Do you know how many nights I have sat here reading /lit/ and silently weeping to myself? Please. I can't fucking take this anymore. It's hard enough trying to "brand" my unique talents and find a way to monetize my gift for flabbily-prosed non sequiturs in the midst of an economic crisis. It's not easy. I want you to imagine how many times I have had my Tiger Mother scream down the phone at me that I should go back to school and learn how to be a pharmacist, or a male nurse. I know that these things would probably be a more appropriate career path. But I can't help it. I need the adulation that an audience provides, even if I have no talent whatsoever. Please, convince me not to take the subway over to St Marks and then jump off the top of Cooper Union. I want to die. I'm tripping balls. Help me.

>YuletideSnapper.com interview with eGarage.TV host Megan Boyle. Filmed at eGarage.TV Studios in Long Island City.
>28 views

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wrg2alV5JS4

Wow, this is sad.

>>1864517
ok let's suppose james and onion needs to solve the problem of distributing 3 apples. they would need to come up with some action guiding rules pertaining to the apples. this can be done without the concept of ownership, which is a primitive evolutionary system that may not work best in every challenging scenario modern society presents or wants to achieve.

suppose onion declares ownership of the apples, and a court upholds that claim. these two pieces of fact are all that is required for there to be a RESOLUTION to the problem of apple distribution. james may object and whatever, but his sorrows are not considered by the system.

it leaves too much out.

>>1864589

whose tree are they off of

>>1864589
That's a very simplistic (?) case. What if James watered the tree and tended to it in winter? Would the problem be so complicated then?

>>1864593
i'm not caring about which particular result the propertarian internal calculus reaches based on circumstances, the point is that 1. it is a primitive routine BLIND to need and other factors of importance.

>>1864606
and 2. the legal method of enforcement is intrinsic to propertarian system and it is a very forceful way of dealing with things, even the legal system itself acknowledges this fact about brute ownership and makes various concessions to socially leveraged negotiation and settlements

>>1864609
That does not mean anything and you know it.

If James refuses to tend to the tree there are no apples in the first place.

>>1864597
i intentionally cut out all of that. just give me a propertarian framework and examine its richness, and more importantly, its restrictions on what future factors to take into account of (thin, primitive and conservative)

>>1864610
well okay, then use a rule like sourced contribution to assign control. but, that is rather complicated and needlessly appeal to unreformed sense of entitlement.

>>1864610
i mean, okay, onion is very nice and gives james all 3 apples and only politely asks for one. james being a propertarian douchebag says, no, not because i am selfish but because the apples are mine mine mine.

that's a moral problem masquerading as a logical one.

>>1864615
This entitlement you know, is rather being used in a demonizing way by you. As if its evil in some way. Isn't it a natural outcome of effort?

>>1864579

that sounds like it would taste disgusting

>>1864621
it is still a chain of human choices, which is to say, it is at least available for reflective examination if not a change of action. it is not a matter of 'fact' or 'natural law'

>>1864623
There is no law here of course. but a definite consensus. it happens naturally in MOST people. Perhaps I am over-generalizing, but I doubt it.

but even then that's not the main issue. i would rather argue that if a system does need to exist to determine distribution it should favor production or simply the reason to produce. Yes yes, greed and all that.

>>1864628
that's okay. incentives are incentives. that is not property though.

understand property as pissing on a tree and telling everything else to stay away. its main concept is absolute possessiveness and domination.

>>1864635
I would hardly call that a claim. I already told you how I view property. I might concede naturally in fact, that what you demonstrate as a property has no meaning in the structure I propose (hardly the first person to do so).

where did you define property/ownership? you didn't define it, you lifted it out of a primitive pool of ideas/mental functions.

>>1864643
Fine. Explicitly speaking a property is a product of your labor whether intellectual or physical or both, with possible multiple stakes.

Does that satisfy you?

It was there. And I already said that I am not the first person to define it. Consider this paraphrasing for the argument.

>>1864641
ok think of yourself as a computer with several softwares all capable of resolving the apple problem. ownership is merely one such software and it is inflexible and etc, even though, perhaps, motivationally it is powerful.

that too can be managed, for example, more distant 'violations' of ownership through well identified, public minded administrative distribution system, would not incur much property deprivation depression feeling, unless you are some sort of randroid or something

>>1864653
no, property is a system of sovereign claims. it is instantiated by an active claim. bees for example have a different property system.

>>1864653

so if someone inherits land or money from a parent, that's not property?

look at how dumb you are

>>1864654
I would ask for compensation though. Otherwise it is a betrayal.

Wait,

it is a democratic administration right? A monarchist/Oligarchical/Aristocratic/Dictetorial administration would simply take it away from me no matter what.

>>1864660
Sure. people are not bees. Bees are not people. Right now we are talking about people. So stick to it.

And that description that property is instantiated, i consider it as a result of mutual agreement between me and the sovereign government. Its not 'natural' either.

>>1864663
in that post i had in mind the kind of homogeneous, egalitarian, socially minded (please take this as a primitive, like for instance jane addams would) government. it is basically any governemnt that you would feel not so threatened by and place your trust/social aspirations in.

because alienation of the people and the state is sometimes caused by the people themselves.

>>1864668
the point is your simple product of labor thing is just one particular rule (and not so clear) and property is rather the entire set of possible rules.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d2BJSV8Q1Yw

Wow. My opinion of him has changed. I hadn't seen him interview before, but he's terrible. Doesn't get jokes, talks slowly, looks at his feet because he can't cope with looking at the person. The girl is fucking cute though. Stupid whore, though, you're supposed to read the books, not cook them.

>>1864677
ack...
replace property with distribution scheme. distinction between distribution scheme and the feeling of entitlement/absolute claim that is behind the self serving actions of certain individuals.

Hallik was but a boy of 7 and a half years old when the dawning of the day of the legends foretold in the sacred books of worship happened to him and everyone else.

When he saw what was happening he RAN to cover at a gas station. He hid under the tall flat roof with arms coming down to hold it up and gas pumps. A HUGE alien space craft came down out of the sky above them, round as the sun.

"Help me!" cried the boy. "Here come here" said Alexander. "Hop on my back" said Alexander. "Thank you!" said the boy Hallik. Hallik was from Greece and had a name accordingly.

"Let's grab some food from the gas station before we go," said they both before departing. They put the food in their backpack that Alexander had.

>>1864676
> homogeneous, egalitarian, socially minded

All of that, why do you automatically think its justified and morally 'proper'?

I think further discussion should avoided before we decide why anything you say with this as a base is automatically the foundation of a just government.

I am not being hostile. I genuinely feel that our disagreement stems from this very assumption: What is considered right at the very base. What you seem to feel is that a life where everyone is at harmony with each other and lives in a fearless manner by all standards, social and economic (As in through inter-personnel behavior and commercial behavior) is good.

I don't believe in that. I think that conflict is in the nature of man and also necessary for benefit of mankind.

>>1864700
well, i do, because i think those are social virtues.

maybe you don't, and you should develop more sympathy and less cynicism.

i don't like how i was born into this world with all land already divided up and all resources for production already distributed without my consideration. that the fruits of one man's labor can potentially last throughout generations.

U CUM 2 CHENGY YET U FAT SLUT?

>>1864707
In fact I suspect you are more cynical than I am. You automatically assume that I view man a destructive force. You would not be more wrong unless you think I am talking about crime.

mankind is young you know?

>>1864718
i am indeed more cynical which means i perceive more danger and threat to the things that i hold dear

>>1864722
>>1864722
HEY DUMMY I AXED U A QUESTINO

>>1864722
So there is a reason to fear isn't there? Can you tell from whom?

>>1864736
basically any republican and other assorted reactionary, various capitalist forces

>>1864736
$$$ and (.Y.)

money and tits, man.

>>1864728
what are you on about

i don't feel like telling you given your behavior

>>1864740
So do you think they are out for your property? :D

>>1864745
U SAID YOU WERE CUMMMING TO CHEZONG DEWWWW CUZ U THOUGHT I LIVE THERE AND THUS COULD GET SOME sweet dick BUTT U MAY OR MAY NOT HAVE GONE TO THE AFOREMENTIONED LOCALE SO I WAS AXING IF U HAD BEEN THERE OR NOT, U HUSSY.

>>1864749
they stand in the way of progress.

think of politics as a continuing process of assimilation by ideologies, these guys need to be pulled in but they keep running away.

>>1864756
So progress is equivalent to homogenization?

>>1864756
nah u dumb as hell dough fah reel.

>>1864761
no, progress in the sense of having a social goal/welfare of others in mind.

>>1864761
only if the values were the same as mine.

>>1864753
that's your own silly fantasy. i just encouraged you to see you fall on your face. it's funny

>>1864761
>>1864762

LOL HIVEMIND AMIRITE

>>1864763
Again more of the same.

As I said. We are going round and round. We will keep coming to point of disagreement until there is resolution. Give me reasons for your morality (sounds a bit contradictory but you know what I mean).

>>1864767
what do you mean. you want a morality outside of morality? that's impossible because godel etc.

>>1864764
WE SHOULD HAVE A CONTEST TO SEE WHO CAN WRANGLE IN MORE CUNT IN A WEEK, SINCE YOU'RE A MANLY WOMAN AND I'M AN EFFEMINATE MAN. IT'S BE FJUUUUUUNNNNNNNNN

>>1864768
Simply tell me why you consider policies favoring social good over individual good as "morally proper". Is that okay? Or there more semantic hurdles I have too jump over?

>>1864772
>favoring social good over individual good
i never said these need to be contradictory. in fact, i am only talking about the ideological level where there is a clear contradiction, and on the real life level, so to speak, the social good and {individual goods} are identical. ideologically though, they belogn to different systems of political (self) representation.

>>1864768
Godel? What did he do related to morals?

>>1864769
love is not sex you stupid idiot

>>1864779
>the social good and {individual goods} are identical

They aren't always. Examples aplenty. Wars. Cleaning shit-filled severs.

>>1864782
logical systems like morality can only be performed, not founded on a representation of itself outside of its own system.

the independence of morality

>>1864769
Well, Vdubby, you can suck my dick anytime you want. Just so u no

>>1864787
if you are talking about mythologized collectives with their particular interests, then those are so obviously fallacious i already dismissed them.

>>1864790
HA HA IT'S LIKE I'M GAY

>>1864772
why social good over individual good...

because people need people, baby.

Hardly. There always will be tasks that nobody likes and someone will have to perform.

>>1864799
but seriously, the offers on the table, bro.

>>1864804
well, those are just jobs requiring higher compensation/less risk averse individuals.

>>1864804

like reading your posts

>>1864809
I'LL DO IT IF ONION DOES IT TOO

>>1864811
Now we are talking. So there IS an entitlement there if you are smart enough to see. How does one decide upon the compensation?

>>1864814
fuk

>>1864819
that's not an entitlement, just an incentive structure.

>>1864818
you go have fun don't relate it to me.

>>1864825
How does one determine someone else's incentive?

>>1864833
size of tits

>>1864825
YEAH INCENTIVES LIKE JIMMY SAID

>>1864833
wat

first you asserted
>There always will be tasks that nobody likes and someone will have to perform.

which gives us an objective for the planner, which solves into simply setting compensation in such a way that the required posts be filled.

people voluntarily take jobs that they deem okay. there is no forced assignment of incentives to anyone.

>>1864848
>Voluntarily.

That's a nice utopia you got there.

The word incentive implies that its a favorable opportunity .I can't see why i would consider anything decided by a planner to be an incentive if I can't have my incentives. Sounds forced to me.

>>1864863
by planner i mean anyone setting the salary, be it a corporation or a public entity. the planner is someone who is given a system and wants to effect change within the system by doing something to it.

taking a government offered job, say, with sanitation or law enforcement, is a choice within the same labor market faced by private businesses as well

What about self employment and setting your own rates? i believe that makes sense to Gates (billy) no?

>>1864877
everyone sets their own rates. unless youa re talking about a forced labor situation which isn't in the picture at all.

>>1864880
In your system the person setting his own rate would be limited by the opportunities offered. Opportunities would be limited whenever they clash with perceived social good (which I claim can't be practically perceived AT ALL).

>>1864884
wait a minute. what

i'm talking about a market thingy here i have no idea why you think it's 'my system'

>>1864887
>no, progress in the sense of having a social goal/welfare of others in mind.

A system imbibing this ideology as morality.

can't you tripfags take this to AIM or something?

i don't feel as though we've thoroughly judged tao lin

>>1864897
ok.
by that

>In your system the person setting his own rate would be limited by the opportunities offered.
everyone is limited by opportunities offered.

> Opportunities would be limited whenever they clash with perceived social good (which I claim can't be practically perceived AT ALL).
of course it can be practically perceived, or rather, of course you are capable of seeing the forest and the trees.

>>1864934
is he a philosopher with unique contributions? if not then pass

>>1864944
>implying he isn't

u so dumb u made me sleepy. OF 2 BEDDY BYE!

>>1864959
bye

>>1864579
Tao...if that is you...jesus christ

>>1864941

Sorry for the late reply. Had to be away urgently.

Not if they create their own opportunities. Its also known as innovation. 30 years ago nobody needed mobile phones.

Also, I can't see why you are so confident as to why we can decide what is social good and correct incentives. Explain how please. Otherwise checked off as mystical.

damn

>>1864579
Please Don't Kill yourself Tao Lin

>>1866693
bumping

>>1866693

my fav best coast song

>>1866846
lol

>>1864251
>everyone poses
I don't.

Fucking Tao. Self adverts on /lit/.

>>1865141
this conversation is so exceedingly frustrating. if only you can recognize the distinction between primitive feeling of possession and a rationally crafted system of distribution. then think about their in-situ application. the difference is not that socialists and other reformers do not recognize property, it si simply that they challenge the then-existing entrenched system which happens to defend itself in divine rights/natural rights/naive property theory etc etc.

moral sentiments are BLIND, the task of theory is to guide it with sight.

>>1867192
With what validity or right?

Seems as rational as racism.

>>1867214
well, when you blindly reach for a bottle, then you want to check if you reached it. that general goal + consequence/real situation of your reaching together inform the reflection.

same here, when you set sight on a correct moral system, yet you know that the adoption of a system of belief may not produce the best set of actions and consequences, then you should admit revisions to original moral belief after some time.

so let's call 'my system' reflective realism, the idea is not justification as hierarchical foundation-making, but progressive evaluation of what is being done and what was believed.

anyway, im not clear on what particular commitments you are trying to defend.

>>1867224
In that case lets call MY system the reflective system.

In 'my' system, we simply assign rights to land by taxing ruling authority that is reassigned through democratic elections. Rest is decided upon who makes what. Simple. Lets see if that works. If it does lets not change it.

>>1867227
the problem is still, why do you take 'assign rights' to mean something? it's a primitive notion, with much space to explore if only you break it apart.

>>1867235
I think my ignorance is restricting proper communication. What exactly do you mean by a primitive notion?

>>1867239
primitive as in, "do math" is a primitive notion, (to someone who is not indoctrinated with some sort of constructivism)

in normal people words i mean the notion of 'rights' etc come to you whole when you have the notion. it is what it is because of evolution and neurostructures and not a product of reason or reflection. primitive as such, whole at birth etc

>>1867252
What makes you so certain that the concept of Rights in not a product of reflection and rather that it is congenital?