/lit/ - Literature

does this thread have a point or....?

>>18638751
kek
>>18638759
he has a point, but it went over your head. Sam Harris's fanbase is a quasi-religion

>>18638751
He is Guenon minus the hierarchy and ritual.

>>18638767
>he has a point, but it went over your head. Sam Harris's fanbase is a quasi-religion

>/lit/ - Literature
>/lit/ - Literature
>/lit/ - Literature

not

>/fag/ - Faith & religion Arguments for Gay retards stuck in 2010

>>18638751
>religion is bad
>talks about spirituality

These things do not cancel each other out.

>>18638751
I recently heard Harris get accused of promoting "vile, debunked" and "pernicious" race realism studies regarding genetic differences between races. I think 'Richard Lynn' was also a name that was dropped.
Is that true ? And how do I bring myself up to speed on the state of the whole "race science" debate? I know they murked dudes like James D. Watson for suggesting genetic differences,

Oh no, is that a, a contradiction I'm going insane!

>>18638787
FunnyA

>>18638751
I only know who this is secondhand via /lit/, but in other such shit threads someone mentioned he practices one of the Tibetan Buddhist sects. Nietzsche is the atheist writer par excellence anyway; I've never been sure what the point of anglo atheist writers of the last few decades has been other than some kind of grift plus tedious moralizing.

can we say religion isn't bad but what people do for religion or do out of religious fervor is bad? only takes a few bad apples to spoil the whole wholesome barrel.

>>18638751
Those aren't really contradictory. You meditate and be a spiritualist without being a follower of an organized religion.

Not a fan of that guy though. He is too convinced to be right about everything. Should call himself anti-plato.

>>18638796
Sam Harris's thinking is appallingly shallow. He tasks himself with proving that you don't need religion to have morality. He's been hashing this out for like 20 fucking years... and this is all he has to say?

>"We should avoid what really and truly sucks."

Ok? And? His grand replacement of religion with "scientific facts" is that he figured out not to touch a hot stove? Avoid what sucks? What kind of idea is that?
And what exactly sucks besides touching a hot stove? How about, you know, how to regulate your society, how to prepare for death, how to punish criminals? How is this stupid "Avoid what sucks" going to help you there?

>>18638751
do westerners know that Buddhists believe in reincarnation and gods? bro it's like totally just a philosophy and not a religion! no its a religion with all sorts of supernatural beliefs that are totally irreconcilable with scientific empiricism. sam harris is a jewish faggot.

>>18638944
>holy book: kill people if they eat animal I don't like
>proceeds to kill people who eat animal G*D doesn't like
>"can we say religion isn't bad but what people do for religion or do out of religious fervor is bad?"
No.

>>18639043
"Buddhism" is a pretty broad umbrella. There are many different forms of Buddhism, most of them contradictory to one another. So you gotta be a bit more specific.

>>18639036
>... and this is all he has to say?
yes anon these sam harris tweets are his only thoughts on the matter
his books are largely dinotopia fan fiction, weird why these tweets made him so famous in the subject

>>18638796
I'm going to avoid Sam Harris

>>18638916
>anglo atheist writers of the last few decades
>some kind of grift

Exactly. They're stage performers. They're selling a product: "you don't have to be religious, yet you can still feel sanctimonious and science-y". Then they rinse and repeat the same shallow polemics.
>The Bibleee says beat your wife!
>crowd boos
>Sciieencccee says don't beat your wife!
>crowd cheers
>Do you wanna be ratttiionnal...or iirrraattional?
>rational!

>>18639043
>sam harris is a jewish faggot.
cool it with the antisemit-
>convinces white people that they need to *replace* the fundamental religious underpinnings of their society
>does not apply these criticisms to eastern religions
>is a lying jew
..oh

>>18639064
I read The Moral Landscape, and it's shallow and does not take its subject seriously. He's a liar. I know the term "strawmanning" is overused, but come on.

>dinotopia fan fiction
Don't know what that means but lol

Sam Harris is the epitome of pseudo-intellectual.
I seriously doubt that he has any classical education (that includes self-guided studies). He doesn’t seem intellectually curious at all. Just a devoted poseur.
I bet he hasn’t even started with the Greeks

>>18639070
Zoomers live in a post-Falwell world, where assertive mainstream religion is dead in America
you make the mistake of looking at celebrity atheist types as being relevant or useful in the current death throes of christianity, as opposed to being culturally relevant and useful back in the 90's/early 00's

>>18639043
Very nice slave
>do westerners know that Buddhists believe in reincarnation and gods? bro it's like totally just a philosophy and not a religion! no its a religion with all sorts of supernatural beliefs that are totally irreconcilable with scientific empiricism.


>If science proves some belief of Buddhism wrong, then Buddhism will have to change. In my view, science and Buddhism share a search for the truth and for understanding reality. By learning from science about aspects of reality where its understanding may be more advanced, I believe that Buddhism enriches its own worldview.

>For many years now, on my own and through the Mind and Life Institute, which I helped found, I have had the opportunity to meet with scientists to discuss their work. World-class scientists have generously coached me in subatomic physics, cosmology, psychology, biology.

>It is our discussions of neuroscience, however, that have proved particularly important. From these exchanges a vigorous research initiative has emerged, a collaboration between monks and neuroscientists, to explore how meditation might alter brain function.

>The goal here is not to prove Buddhism right or wrong - or even to bring people to Buddhism - but rather to take these methods out of the traditional context, study their potential benefits, and share the findings with anyone who might find them helpful.

>After all, if practices from my own tradition can be brought together with scientific methods, then we may be able to take another small step toward alleviating human suffering.

https://www.dalailama.com/news/2005/our-faith-in-science

>>18638751
/lit/ loooves bashing these ridiculous strawmans over and over. Jordan Peterson is not that relevant anymore so its Sam Harris' turn!

>>18638759
It’s an advertisement and OP is Sam Harris

>>18639123
He's not a strawman if he actually exists lol

>>18639089
>jews invent jewish religion for goys
>jews destroy the jewish religion they invented for goys

I-ITS DA JUICE!!

>>18639070
thats some nice projection, what religious services have you been to

>>18639062
you are nowhere near as intelligent as you think you are

>>18639070
>>18639110
Yeah the thought of even caring about formerly trendy atheist anglos in 2021 just seems quaint. Who hasn't been exposed to atheism yet? And even if one were atheist, these writers were so late to the game that they have hardly anything to say to you. Which I guess Harris has figured out if he is actuall a Buddhist—god in the sense of Iśvara or a Creator has been dead to Buddhism since 500 BC.

>>18639110
But that's my point. They're still chugging along railing against Fundamentalism when there is no more relevant Fundamentalism.

>>18638751
>>18638796
Brainlet wants you to avoid reading Aquinas. Imagine following this clown who doubts free will. Imagine following an atheist who views nothing from nothing, but then preaches morality. Imagine it.

>>18639201
>to be moral you need to eat this magical meat bread of an entity that is not made of flesh!
So, this is the reason with which G*D endowed you, uh?
>Let us make man in our image, after our likeness.
Makes sense, I guess.

>>18639114
>If science proves some belief of Buddhism wrong, then Buddhism will have to change.
>Said by the Dalai Lama himself
Rene Guenon was initially correct to say Buddhism was a heterodox religion and was too hasty to accept the arguments of A.K. Coomaraswamy and Marco Pallis.

>>18639114
>The Dalai Lama glows
is anyone really surprised?

>>18639281
He's taking a shot at the Chinese government and also trying to appeal to western liberals. In other interviews he says Europe should be for Europeans. He's a master diplomat; doesn't even have a state.

>>18639281
>>The Dalai Lama glows
???
Yes, he has taken money from the CIA, but saying he's a communist is not exactly something I would expect from a US puppet

>>18639061
what year were you born?

>>18639238
Why arent you guys allowed to write God if you don't even believe in him?

>>18639392
I never met an atheist who I didn't strongly suspect to hate God. They stink of it. They believe in him, they just reject him.

>>18639448
Atheists dont usually do the g*d thing, it's a specific group of people who do that. I understand it as a mark of reverence but this guy is arguing that god doesnt exist so it's odd

>>18638751
He's trying to save the elements of religion he considers worth saving. The elements that have people need to live happy and meaningful lives. Lots of people agree with this approach.

>>18639281
Have you ever heard of the landmass formerly known as Tibet?

>>18639498
>He's trying to save the elements of religion he considers worth saving.
And what are these elements exactly? And why are his considerations meaningful? "Avoid what sucks" is absolutely worthless for founding a society upon.
For example, religion tells you not to cheat on your wife. This commandment creates stability. According to Sam Harris, an equivalent stability ought to be provided with "science" and "avoiding suffering". Ok, how? Whose suffering?
Another: religion prohibits lying. Without this prohibition, why not just lie to people all the time? How is that not evidently a good strategy? How could "avoid suffering", "science", or "reason" possibly efficiently regulate peoples' ability to deceive one another?

>>18639392
>Why arent you guys allowed to write God if you don't even believe in him?
I'm not jewish, I just use the asterisk to trigger people.
>>18639461
>Atheists dont usually do the g*d thing, it's a specific group of people who do that. I understand it as a mark of reverence but this guy is arguing that god doesnt exist so it's odd
Seems it's working
In fact I utter blasphemy in a way that is not even contemplated in English, my language is quite unique in that regard.
>>18639385
Not your business

>>18639043
she cute

>>18639663
Do you not find it odd that you obsess over something you apparently dont think exists

>>18638751
peepeepoopoo I'm 23 in 2010. I stil largue this.

get a life.

>>18639114
Dalai Lama is a dirty materialist bugman, so surprising from a man who receives money to have dinner dates with celebrities.

>>18639562
Are you asking in good faith? Or are you baiting? I don't understand. Is it supposed to be rhetorical? Too many questions that, if you don't know how to answer them yourself, I don't know how to explain. I suspect if you're confused then a little time and contemplation will resolve them. Though I'm not sure...

>>18639238
>to be moral you need to eat this magical meat bread of an entity that is not made of flesh!
Isnt the case at all. Please use a trip so I can filter you from future discussions. Thanks.

>>18639719
Yeah, they're tough questions, aren't they, Sam?

>>18639705
>you obsess
I don't, as I said I use the asterisk in God just to trigger people.
>>18639723
>no argument
The LORD regretted that he had made human beings on the earth

>>18639743
Ten Commandments dont mention the Eucharist, you clown. The Eucharist is not an act of morality, try again.

>>18639738
Tough questions from a thick ol' leathery noggin,

>>18638787

kekking

>>18638767
>Sam Harris's fanbase
Who are these people? I only see him brought up here

>>18638751
>>18638767
>taking the good aspects of religion and leaving out the schizo-retard shit
>this is a bad thing
wow youre a fucking genius anon!!!

>>18638751
Sam Harris is a pseud, but he's still smarter than 99.9% of republicans and conservatives.

>>18639201
>there are people on this board that still sincerely believe in a concept as untenable as free will

>>18640303
Harris precisely does the opposite.

>>18639281
The fact that the Dalai Llama is a CIA asset is a point in favour of the CIA , not a point against the Llama.

>>18641809
how

>>18642412
i know close to nothing abt him btw i was just drawing on what OP said

>>18638796
What a fucking retard, jesus

>>18638751
>and if you'd like, stick around so I can teach you a little bit more about teaching a fucking class. All I've gotten since I've been here are packets about the unreality of free will and meditation. So don't try to take credibility for teaching me jack. And now I will leave. Thank you.

>>18638796
Wait, this is the power of Sam Harris? I was actually considering giving his books a chance at one point...

>>18638796
>Let's assume

I'm a fucking moron and even I can see an inverted pyramid being built on that logic.

>>18643005
holy kek

>>18639070
"Grift" is such an overused word. They can be dumb and still in earnest. This grift ubiquity catches every writer that ever was paid for anything. Was Dostoevsky a grifter?

>>18643287
Again I only know who Harris is because of /lit/, but if he is just known for being an atheist, what are his books even about? The atheist position can be given in a single sentence and is not some new idea requiring book length explanation in the 20th/21st century. So the what doesn't make a lot of sense which means the why can't be much better. And that's how we get to grift.

>>18638796
Step 5 isn't question begging, it's simply an axiom he's putting forward, which any consequentialist would agree with. The difference is, most consequentialists admit that it's an axiom, and doesn't proceed from any "is" statement.

>>18639238
>>18639663
>I was just pretending to be a Jew
Don't care, fuck off.

>>18643505
I wasn't even pretending to be jewish. That's all on you. I only like to trigger (You).
And it works. It works perfectly.

>>18644051
You're still lying and gaslighting so you must be really committed to the act.

>>18639036
This based anon sees through the Harris ruse