/lit/ - Literature

>>18627851
if you're smart enough to get it, read dosto and kaczynski
/thread

>>18627851
>Avoids challenges
You should only challenge yourself if there is something to be gained. There's nothing inherently good about dealing with bullshit just to show you tough you are
>Gets frustrated or gives up easily
It is often reasonable to give up. Sometimes there are things you simply can not do. We are not all created equal. Some people are will excel and some people will fall behind. We shouldn't blame those who fall behind for throwing in the towel and avoiding further humiliation.
>Thinks potential is predetermined
While certain skills can be enhanced through practice, it is naïve to think that each person is a tabula rasa that can learn anything. Genetics and the environment you are raised in have a large impact on your overall personal development.
>Takes criticism personally
This presupposes that the criticism the person received was valid and constructive. Most people aren't qualified to give legitimate criticism of others.
>Feels threatened by the success of others
You should feel threatened by others. Life on Earth is a rat race all the way down. It's every man for himself. Certain pursuits such as bodybuilding and skill development (learning a language or an instrument for example) can be attained on an individual basis. By this I mean that any person can pursue them independently; they don't take away from others by pursuing these things. But many important things in life are a zero sum game. If you marry a woman I love then I don't get that woman. If you get promoted to a position then I won't get that promotion. It's normal to resent people who get the things that you want but can never have.

This "fixed vs growth mindset" is just normies trying to justify their superiority.

"Hehehe if only the incels, betas, and losers of the world had a growth mindset then they'd be just like us!"

They tell themselves this to avoid the cold reality of the situation: life is completely and utterly unfair and some people get the shittest hand of cards dealt to them. I don't know why people cannot admit this to themselves. Some people have it really bad and theres nothing we can do about it.

>>18627985
based

>>18627985
/thread

>>18627851
me on the right

>avoids challenges
Survival 101.
>Gets frustrated or gives up easily
If you get frustrated, you should give up. Frustration should be eliminated from occurring. If you are still getting frustrated by your 30s, you're either a brainlet with a maladaptive response (NOOOO THIS IS HECKIN FRUSTRATING] or you are doing something that deep down won't benefit you
>Thinks potential is predetermined
It is. I've graduated college, went to a good medical school, found another line of work and made some money. Most of this was luck or came very easily with minimal to no effort. I can only thank God for creating me more intelligent than most people and giving me a good life. If I was in severe poverty or had not the intellect, I would have amounted to nothing.
>>18627985
>Takes criticism personally
Most is offered by passive aggressive midwits that would go ballistic if you offered any to them.
>Feels threatened by the success of others
As the other guy said, life is a zero sum game. Grug would have clubbed a retarded and frail caveman to death if he had success back in the caveman days.

>>18627985
Based

>>18627985
loser hands typed this post

>>18628066
>>>18627985 #
Didn't mean to quote the based post in my own post, I just was using his transcriptions of the meme and forgot to remove post source. It isn't challenging anything and should instead just be confined to based.

>>18627996
Nah thats cringe. Quit justifying living in you mom's basement as superior. You're just lesser. Either change that or accept it

>>18628068
Loser > coper.

>>18628068
>the oblivious projection

>>18628087
This is the type of "challenge" you should ignore. You can tell this user to kill themselves and move on. Seriously engaging with this kind of creatures can only be detrimental and a waste of time.

>>18628068
>>18628087
t. watches neurotic 'hustle culture' sub 90 IQ retards and Dan Perina videos and 'work for free' Rich Dad Poor Dad is his bible.

If I didn't try to hold what I know to be irrational beliefs as beliefs nonetheless I would certainly lose my mind.

>>18627985
>>18628066
Fixed mindset = Based mindset.

>>18627985
What ridiculous a pile of mental gymnastics. Having a boring rigid mindset about everything is bad and you know it. Grow up and start taking some risks and watch your life improve rapidly.

>>18628190
Not an argument. Come back when you have something to say.

>>18627985
This. Never try to improve your situation. Never try, period. Stew in bitterness and frustration your entire life and never do anything about it. Blame it on women and call them whores and roasties on the internet for not fucking you despite doing nothing to improve as a man. Just post frog pictures on the internet instead. Complain about life being unfair like a high-schooler instead of trying to make the most of things. Never take risks, never dare to make your life better in any way. Never accept responsibility for your own fuck ups, just blame it on someone else or biological determinism. Just be an irredeemable loser. It's heckin based!

>>18628340
taking risks is how people learn this mindset in the first place

>>18628340
Projection.

>>18628340
What a fantastic lie. You will only ever be who you are. Copying someone will never get you through. And mimicry is the heart of improvement.

>>18627851
ITT crabs in the bucket arguing with crabs who escaped

>>18628883
>crabs in the bucket arguing
Left
>with crabs who escaped
Right

>>18628612
You're supposed to take risks, fail and then try again. Many people take risks, fail, it hurts, maybe they try again, but after a while they curl up and give up.

>>18627985
>Challenges
Challenges come with gain in skill.
>Giving up
People with a growth mindset will adjust their goals, so that instead of giving up, they're progressing towards something. See 'Eddie the Eagle'.
>Potential
Nobody said that they're tabula rasa. Nobody thinks that.
>Most people aren't qualified to give legitimate criticism of others
Yet here you are. Almost everyone is qualified to give legitimate criticism of others about something.
>Threatened by others
Life isn't every man for himself. There are communities and collaboration, as well as competition.

You're displaying all fixed mindset. The people giving you encouragement have similar mindsets.

Here I am projecting:
The problem is, to believe in growth mindset for fixed mindset hurts. It hurts because being told that growth is possible feels like being told that you're responsible for your misery. And you're already beating yourself up about how shitty your life is, so you don't need anyone else coming along and telling you to get your shit together, which is what it feels like. Because you're trying to get your shit together, and you already hate yourself for it. So it just reinforces the self-hatred.

Anyway, I think the key to getting out of the fixed mindset, and into the growth mindset is self-love and higher self-esteem.

>>18628957
>fixed mindset
Which is a good thing as proven time and again in this thread. Keep your new age fluid wageslave mindset to yourself and die.

>>18628957
>Anyway, I think the key to getting out of the fixed mindset, and into the growth mindset is self-love and higher self-esteem.
well duh but that's never going to happen since the entire universe is telling you you're worthless and undeserving of love

>>18629013
>new age fluid wageslave mindset
Not sure what's new age and fluid about the mindset. Can you explain?
>>18629014
No, the universe manifest me, which is in and of itself an act of love.

>>18628957
>Challenges come with gain in skill.
Then that would be an example of a a challenge with something to gain. I already said that challenges like that are a good thing.
>People with a growth mindset will adjust their goals, so that instead of giving up, they're progressing towards something. See 'Eddie the Eagle'.
Cope. "I can't get what I want so I'll just settle for something less then pretend I'm okay with it!" That's not a growth mindset that's a cuck mindset. At least have the dignity to tell yourself "I can't achieve this."
>Nobody said that they're tabula rasa. Nobody thinks that.
If you reject the idea that potential is predetermined then yes you categorically do see people as a tabula rasa. Either different people have different predispositions or we all have the exact same predispositions, and certain people, through sheer willpower and determination alone, develop certain skills/traits. I'm not discounting hard work btw, I'm simply acknowledging that it's never an even playing field.
>Yet here you are. Almost everyone is qualified to give legitimate criticism of others about something.
That's the keyword "Something". If people want to critique in their area of expertise that is fine; on all other matters they can stfu.
>Life isn't every man for himself. There are communities and collaboration, as well as competition.
Whichever nebulous "communities" you are speaking of are nothing more than a group of individuals -- individuals who will stab you in the back and piss on your corpse the minute your will crosses their own will. If a man has even one or two close family members or friends that he can could on in this day and age he is part of a privileged elite. Very few men have close social bonds and most modern friendships are parasitic and shallow. I envy your optimism towards group cooperation, but I disagree.

I'm not against trying to better yourself but I also detest reality-denial and wishful illusions. Telling the 5'8 kid that he can be an NBA star some day if he just embraces a "growth mindset" is disingenuous and straight up immoral. It's a lie.

>>18629050
Life is suffering for most people. The universe manifested nothing. Reality is material, aleatory, without any greater goal or purpose. Your statement is not one of gratitude but delusion.

>>18629065
>Telling the 5'8 kid that he can be an NBA star some day if he just embraces a "growth mindset" is disingenuous and straight up immoral. It's a lie.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_shortest_players_in_National_Basketball_Association_history'
uh-oh

>Embraces challenges
Vygotsky debunked this with the proximal zone of development.
>Persists in the face of setbacks
Sisyphus debunked this
>Sees effort as the path to mastery
Everyone recognises this with such aphorisms as "practice makes perfect", it's just that effort is relative. For example, your standard 26 year old virgin NEET who plays video games all day may not realise he's exerting some effort, but to a 22 year old female, ready to settle down, she will gaze in awe at how he managed to abstain from sex for so long. To her, it is an effort to refrain from filling every orifice she has with hard flesh. She wishes she could have refrained from sex as well as he had, to secure her a worthy man who will stick by her. She knows that any man she can attain now will be fickle (justifiably so), there is nothing she can offer that another woman cannot, for she cannot even promise him and only him her body; that promise was broken some time long ago.
>Learns from criticism
Everyone learns from criticism. Some people learn they're worthless, some people learn the correct way to do X.
>Finds lessons and inspiration in the success of others
Plutarch debunks the notion that this perk is exclusive to the 'growth mindset' DLC expansion pack.

>>18627851
>Slave Mindset:
Believes struggle, hard work, challenges are a virtue in themselves and not merely a means to a virtuous end
Is hard and rigid like a stick, will not bend until he snaps
Believes "mastery" is the result of "effort", often effort expended towards another mans ends through work, or effort expanded towards understanding some inane skill such as repeating other men's songs on an instrument
Masochistic, internalizes the criticisms of others and lets their nagging shape his stunted psyche
Idolizes literal slave people because they are impressive work horses, is actually inspired by this

>Master mindset:
Realizes that hard work can generally be made easy, so long as one understands what they wish to obtain
Is soft and fluid like water, can adopt quickly to circumstances and level mountains with his Chi
Knows that mastery is an innate part of his nature, gets on welfare in order to maximize his time while the natural slave minds (majority of humanity) do what they do best
Realizes that criticism is just the jealous yapping of small dogs. Knows that the Dao is best understood by the one who forgets
Knows that as long as he lives, mans life can neither be said to be happy or sad. Reads the biographies of dead men instead

>>18628340
>you have to prove yourself to be accepted and respected
>dont call me whore tho, thats just mean
Lol

Made a similar request myself a few days ago, to no avail. Hopefully someone recommends something. You can read my unimpeachably correct replies in the meantime.

>>/lit/thread/S18606919#p18607932

>>18628899
>take risk
>fail
>run out of resources
>get punished
>be in a much worse position than you were before wherein you can no longer afford to take risks
>MUH LOCUS1

>>18627851
>>18630442

Note the germ of error: belief in change, or movement, or becoming and causality. One believes that there is an implicit, Ontological, market whereby one can exchange x units of suffering for x units of reward, that the coin is transcendentally sanctioned, that the exchange occurs "Objectively" as a chemical reaction is said to occur. Whereas actual money, the most reified vector of change and causality, works contrary to this belief: the market is fabricated, the coin is contextually sanctioned, the exchange occurs Subjectively. Yaldabaoth is the greatest comedian.

>>18630520
>ne can exchange x units of suffering for x units of reward,
This is undeniably true. There is literally not a single thing that cannot be achieved by anyone.

>>18630567

In Minecraft?

>>18630582
God rewards everything justly. It's not possible to be unfairly rewarded.

>>18630620

This is a different argument altogether.

>>18630620
>God
It is impossible to enjoy the fruits of your own labour. God himself must be there in person to deliver the reward to you. Of course.

>>18627985
Based destroyer of normie delusions

>>18628340
Pathetic strawman. Come back when you are +25

>>18627851
>Thinks potential is predetermined
Almost everyone I have met thinks this way. They have this bizarre attitude according to which, for example, someone who is not already athletic will never be able to become athletic. They are, strangely enough, little different from the average racist with his IQ statistics in that respect. And their number seems to be increasing.
Am I the only one who has noticed this?

>>18627985
Obvious loser.

>>18630939
>And their number seems to be increasing.
There is the fat acceptance movement, which treats being mordibly obese as being a necessary condition.

>>18627985
Based, someone had to say it.

>>18627985
kek bitter brainlet

>>18630666
you got told loser satan. you'll never be a real god

>>18630939
it's wild. also a handy excuse and a way to lie to yourself so you don't need to do anything but wallow in your misery and blame everyone and everything else for it

>>18630939

It is demonstrable that everyone exists per "fixed" Ontology: the coincidence of the one being born and each individual is a unique event, one being who one is and not being who one is not is axiomatic, no one's parents could reasonably "practice" toward the one being born being or not being any one in particular, no one can become another one. Where and why would "growth" Ontology intervene? What makes you think that one's content is different from one's demonstrably "fixed" form?

>>18631101

On the contrary, it is the growthoids who have a universal excuse, not to mention an abnegation of Morality, for everything in and of themselves and in and of the world, "needs more practice".

>>18631272
What are you talking about? If a dude starts training, he will get bigger, stronger, and faster. Anyone can train, and anyone can get bigger, stronger, and faster.

>>18631287

It is demonstrable that bodies implicitly change per their "fixed" Ontology. Where and why does "growth" intervene?

>>18630939
Everyone i meet seems to think the opposite. There is no end to the amount of people that think anything can be achieved though hard work and perseverance. I think most normies have the growth mindset, but they make excuses for why they are not supermen because "they don't have the time".
In most cases anyway, there are some like math which they believe you're either born with or without

>>18627985
>You should only challenge yourself if there is something to be gained. There's nothing inherently good about dealing with bullshit just to show you tough you are
Yes there is. Read Habit by William James.
>It is often reasonable to give up. Sometimes there are things you simply can not do. We are not all created equal. Some people are will excel and some people will fall behind. We shouldn't blame those who fall behind for throwing in the towel and avoiding further humiliation.
How is giving up easily in any way comparable to not doing something you know is impossible? Furthermore you have no idea what is possible. You have no idea what the limits of the human mind are.
>While certain skills can be enhanced through practice, it is naïve to think that each person is a tabula rasa that can learn anything. Genetics and the environment you are raised in have a large impact on your overall personal development.
Brain Plasticity has been proven to persist in great strength long after childhood. Your brain has the power to learn nearly anything.
>You should feel threatened by others If you marry a woman I love then I don't get that woman. If you get promoted to a position then I won't get that promotion. It's normal to resent people who get the things that you want but can never have.
Yes the reason you didn't get the girl or the promotion is because Jeff Bezos has a lot of money.

>mfw reading replies

>>18631993
>Furthermore you have no idea what is possible. You have no idea what the limits of the human mind are.

All the more reason to give up, no?

>>18632073
what

>>18632073

If you truly do no know what is possible then how would you know that you are not working in vain?

>>18632112
I mean you are working unfathomably below your maximum potential. And nobody has ever found the limit to how efficient a human being can be.

>>18627985
Indeed. It is also plain that all growth is finite and faces an upper limit. To the senile and cognitively declining, a growth mindset isn't a productive or realistic way of thinking, it's delusion.

>>18632128

One's potential is irrelevant if that towards with one is working is impossible.

>>18632128

One's potential is irrelevant if that towards which one is working is impossible.

>>18627851
It's the Height. Nobody wants to hear it but all the reasons, high IQ, symetric features, health, self-esteem, all are linked to your height. Women aren't less successful because of their gender but because they're being towered by their male competitors. You won't find Books about it because nobody wants to hear the bad news, including tall men - they would rather talk about their efforts than admit that most millionnaires are taller than average.

>I'm a manlet btw

>>18632404
i'm tall and shorter people are more successful than me
therefore it is not height

>>18627851
(Self)control is the countering of inert, and/or exerted, motion, therefore, it cannot be ethicomorally evaluated in itself; what can be is the purpose for which it is actuated: just control entails adjustment —optimal fixation; unjust control entails injury —pessimal debasement; one who is deficient in experience (growth) is/becomes convoluted in imperience (ripening); one who is deficient in imperience is/becomes exhausted in experience.

>>18631717
Maybe the people I encounter are being malicious.

>>18627985
all this is pretty much true and nice and well, but if you really want to achieve something you should not give up even when the odds are stacked HEAVILY and i mean HEAVILY against you. and you should know that life is unfair but choose to ignore it. why? because history has shown again and again that this brings people to better places all the time. i dont even need to give an example.

>>18632428
When I was at uni, the teachers tried to discourage me because of some circonstances stacked against me, showed me that for someone in my situation only 1% of people got that specific diploma - I worked my ass off and got that diploma anyway, but it doesn't change the fact that 99% of other 'me' failed. The teachers weren't lying, it would have been wiser to change major.
There are like 20 manlets in the History of the MBA so going into the MBA isn't a delusional goal for manlets? - here lies the trap of the Growth Mindset, confusing 'not impossible' with 'I Can Do it too'. On the paper, we're all little David Goggins but in reality outliers are by definition a minority, and survivor bias makes us think that it's possible for us as long as one man did it.

>>18627851
The Fixed Mindset of the Chad Poirier versus the Growth Mindset of the Virgin Mc Gregor. See how well it went.

https://www.lesswrong.com/posts/6XLC6dJFX6AcQpGty/against-the-internal-locus-of-control633695

>>18627985
Agree with most of this but still we struggle onward towards our arbitrary goals.

I feel like both sides are me

Truth of the matter is that potential is predetermined only for those that can't manipulate potentiality. The problem with growth mindset is that it's literally magical thinking but divorced from the magic.

>>18635097
please elaborate

>>18635199
The "growth mindset" is a denial of the realities of circumstance and genetics. Most will take that statement has an affirmation of the fixed mindset, few (the esoterically inclined) will take that as an invitation. Free will is earned; the cycles of the planets dominate you, you learn to work with them, then you ultimately learn to trancend them.
If you need me to elaborate further then I can't help you.

>>18628197
>can't take criticism
>responds with meaningless words
Pottery

>>18629065
>Cope. "I can't get what I want so I'll just settle for something less then pretend I'm okay with it!" That's not a growth mindset that's a cuck mindset.
Not everything is about cuckoldry you porn-brain faggot. Just because you won't become Jeff Bezos doesn't mean that you can't start a business. Just because your band won't become larger than the Beatles doesn't mean that you shouldn't start one. You sound like such a loser. You unironically sound like a huge contrarian loser.

>>18635097
>>18635542

Alternatively, "growth", or the impression thereof through Occasionalism, is only given to the damned, Yaldabaoth thereby depurating himself and making one agree that, indeed, one has damned himself.

>>18627865
You don’t /thread yourself you fucking newfag

>>18635047
It's perfectly normal to entertain both ideas. If you get lucky and find a 20$ bill, that's out of your control. If you stop drinking soda, that's in your control. It only becomes relevant if it stops you from trying - to take an entire board as an example, /ic/ is divided between 'everyone can learn how to draw' and 'it's a godgiven talent'. Which brings me to my issue with the whole 'mindset' idea: the artists on /ici/ who don't believe in fixed limits aren't better than the retards who think it's fixed at birth. Seems that many other factors are at play, and their mindsets play but a small part.

>>18627851
How do I stop having a fixed mindset? It takes me an entire week to sit myself down to write, but then I write two sentences, I look at them, cringe and stop. How the hell do I accept that being shit is just part of the process when deep down I believe that I'll never become even an acceptable writer?

>>18636034

Careful: >>18635800

>>18627985
Great post.

>>18634889

Terrible, typical romantic Materialism, Materialism with asterisks, parentheses, footnotes, not to mention the implicit claim that one is simply thrown to the determined circumstances from a conceivable neutral origin instead of the proper Materialist, and proper Idealist for that matter, claim that one's determined circumstances are merely secondary to the determined fate that one not so much has but that one IS.

>>18627985
Read live wired by David Eagleman, the brain is plastic

>>18627985
The cold reality isn't that life's unfair
It's that nothing matters. At all. All your life others, just as ignorant and insecure as you, will try to use you to feel better about themselves, and when you obey, they will call you a good boy.
And all these "growth" morons who are so hooked on the hedonic threadmill, are so exactly because the only thing keeping them afloat from day to day is the next little good boy dopamine fix.

>>18630939
There are hard limits for what you can acheive and they are different for different people. You're a tool that believes in the just world fallacy.

>>18635097
You need to be a schizo believing in literal magic in order to make the growth bullshit logically coherent.

>>18629311
ZPD is nearly useless in practice compared to Piaget's phases of development or IQ, since it is so nebulous.

Aside that, ZPD doesn't "debunk" that growth comes from embracing challenge: ZPD is about pursuing challenges that aren't too far off from the child's current proficiency at whatever task type we're discussing. It's just common sense dressed up to sound technical, anyway.

>>18635097
>>18635800
>>18636295
This has to be bait right? Obviously genes and shit influence and limit a lot of what you can do, but equating self improvement to believing in the occult is beyond retarded.

>>18636295
Yup.
It's 2021, why aren't you schizomaxxxing?
My life has improved exponentially since I've begun.
The world of the soul is orders of magnitude more vibrant and important then the world of the flesh, or even the world of the mind.
>muh logically coherent
Fuck logic. No, seriously, fuck it. Humans are by nature illogical and seems to me that they were never MEANT to be logical. People who don't autistically try to take life by pure logic and reason, and trust their gut, intuition and instinct, usually do better in life.
What is good? That which empowers.
What is evil? That which weakens.
If schizofication empowers and logic weakens, then being schizo is good and logic is bad. Simple as.

>>18636197
and?

>>18636456

See: >>18635800

>>18627851
>takes criticism personally
>learns from criticism
I don't think those are mutually exclusive. Most people feel at least slightly hurt if you criticize them, regardless of whether they learn anything in the process.

>>18635097
>>18635542
>>18636295
>>18636406
it's true though, doesn't hardcore growth mindset shit like the law of attraction basically require magic occultism for all the shit in their books to work

>>18636456
They found that the way that psilocybin cures depression and anxiety (it cures depression and anxiety considerably better than big pharma drugs), is related to the mystical experiences that the drug induces. The more powerful and profound the mystical experience, the more effective. This is not the same as treating chemical imbalances - where the cure is chemical A, that makes the subject less depressed. The thing that made the subject less depressed wasn't the chemical itself but the visions etc that were induced by the chemical.

>>18631282
>>18631320
>>18632188
>mfw i am unimpeachably correct

>>18627985
Maximum cumbrain

>>18627851
PSYCHOLOGY IS A PSEUDO-SCIENCE. IT IS LITERALLY ASTROLOGY.

>>18627985
growth mindset: despite all this you still give it your everything because that's your best bet

>>18631993
>Read Habit by William James
I have a policy of not reading books written by retards.
>You have no idea what the limits of the human mind are.
Yes I do. A person that's 4'11 will never become an NBA player. A person that's 70 IQ will never become a great mathematician. It's quite reasonable to give things up as you won't be wasting precious time trying to do the impossible. Anyone who disagrees is probably young and has way too much free time.
>Your brain has the power to learn nearly anything.
This is obviously untrue. But even if it was it still doesn't change the fact that you shouldn't waste your time learning or practicing things that you're just not good at. For example, why would an untalented person spend years trying to get really good at chess (assuming you're not just doing it for the love of the game) if there are 12 year old kids that are already better than you will ever be.
>Yes the reason you didn't get the girl or the promotion is because Jeff Bezos has a lot of money.
Obvious strawman.

>>18628190
>Having a boring rigid mindset about everything is bad and you know it. Grow up and start taking some risks and watch your life improve rapidly.
Did anon say you should never take risks? I just read his point as acknowledging the reality that one person can't do everything & you should invest your time wisely in the things that matter to you. Sounds like you're reading into his statements.

>>18638830
>assuming you're not just doing it for the love of the game
So, I was going to try pointing it out earlier, but I couldn't be bother. But here, you've made it easier. This is essentially the difference between a growth and fixed mindset. It's not the case in every instance (there are extremes, such as paralysed and wanting to play NBA or whatever), but most of the time someone with a growth mindset is not trying to be better than anyone else, or achieve some kind of rigid goal. Their aim is 'growth', to improve, and to improve at improving too.

Anyway. You don't care. But I don't care you don't care. Someone might read this.

>>18638994
that's way too high on the chart i can't even get sex

>>18630939
There is a limit to personal development and achievement; playing sport to your limit teaches you this. I went to Loughborough University and no matter how hard I tried and practiced, I never became a professional rugby player. Still graduated in STEM, but that’s easy.

>>18640106
Looks like you responded to the wrong post.

>>18635816
Fixed mindset