/lit/ - Literature

>>18629193
I used Wheelock + LLPSI, you'll have a much easier time if you memorize your declensions first

>>18629465
Good advice, but the declension tables are all wheelcock is useful for. If OP wants to supplement I recommend any more modern textbook.

I would say only one chapter per day. One of the weaknesses of the natural method is that you need to know about 90% of each sentence to infer the rest. If you try learning 50+ words (alongside grammar) every day, you are going to forget earlier words and become unable to progress.

>>18629193
I'd say let each chapter soak in for 2-3 days. In the first few you can do 1 a day but as someone else pointed out you won't be able to memorize every single word on the first day unless you have a god tier memory. My recommendation is reread a lot, use the audio recordings on yt by Scorpio Martians, and download the LLPSI Anki deck (comes with audio too). You will know when you have mastered a chapter when you can shut your eyes, listen to the audio, and picture the events within your mind.
Make sure you do the exercises, get lingua latina disco on libgen (English explanation of the Latin Grammar presented in each chapter, although I advise to try your best to understand first in Latin before resorting to this book), do your Anki reps and read read read. Use the weekend to review all you learned during the work week.

>>18629895
Scorpio Martianus*
Or just type in LLPSI chapter X into YouTube

>>18629803
>natural method
no one calls it this but autists mate

>>18629193
>hopefully i'll be able to read the vulgae by the end of it.
you wont be able to

>>18629895
>use the audio recordings on yt by Scorpio Martians
use the audio recordings that were made originally for the book, I like the bald autist, but he has some blind spots like pronouncing the long vowels ridiculously long

>>18629193
I just got mine yesterday :D
There is a part 2 and several supplemental books. They are mentioned in https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5oJctKy_r6s – you can just read the description for them if you don't want to watch the video.

>>18631233
Yeah he pronounces the long vowels retardedly long, but is otherwise good and the most phonologically accurate. Orberg's recordings have an obvious Germanic accent, he doesn't bother to unaspirate his t/k/p and uses glottal stops in e.g. "parva est".

>>18631344
And I think emphasizing the long vowels is a good thing because Latin vowel length is phonemic, it matters to the meanings of words. Too many people lazily forgo distinguishing long and short vowels.

>>18631344
>phonologically accurate
Didn't he do some original research that makes his pronunciation different than that of the rest of the "Latin speaking" world?

>>18631344
>>18631399
I didn't look too much into it, but there seem to be many discrepancies between what he's doing and my standard textbooks.

>>18629193
You'll need the LLPSI: Excercitia along with Familia Romana if you intend on getting any use out of the book; the Pensa are not nearly enough.

>>18631444
*Exercitia. My apologies.

How far will I have gone (grammar wise) if I go through both parts of LLPSI and have read all of the extra material mentioned in this video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5oJctKy_r6s? Do they cover enough grammar for me to not have to rely on textbooks anymore and I could simply acquire the rest by continuing to consume material in latin?

The only way to learn latin happily is by memorising poems

>>18631444
>if you intend on getting any use out of the book;
The author never said that. Why do you think you know the author's book better than himself?

>>18629193
If you have no experience with inflected languages prior you might not be able to do even one chapter per day. It's better to just set a time like 45 minutes and do as much as you can. ALso some important advice, you need the book Latine Disco to use alongside it, and don't skip the Pensa.

>>18631399
Yes he pronounces it with only 5 vowel qualities (the only difference in long and short vowels in length when others will tell you the actual sound is different) but this is supported by the evidence
>>18631344
The pronunciation is deliberately slow for learners. Most people learning don't have phonemic vowel length that changes the meaning in their native language.

>>18629895
>>18631444
>>18631943
I have a physical copy of LLPSI Pars I, should I get physical copies of Disco and Exerticia as well or just digital/libgen?

>>18632007
I don't know if you even need the exercitia. but you can just download Latine Disco because you won't have to write anything in it and it's only like one page per chapter you just read after each chapter of llpsi

How does word stress happen?
no guide ive found actually explains it at all and i know its important for poetry so it would be useful to know

>>18632029
It follows the penultimate stress rule. If the second to last syllable is long (ends and begins in a consonant, has a long vowel or a dipthong) it gets the stress, if the second to last syllable is short the stress goes to the third to last syllable

>>18631763
I'm going off of the recommendations of people who've used the book to achieve fluency in Latin.
And the Exercitia was invaliable to me when I learned Latin. The same underlying concept always applies when learning a new language: the more material you read, and the more you're challenged, the better results you'll get.

>>18632088
*invaluable
Why the fuck am I making so many mistakes today...

>>18629193
What's the vulgae?

>>18632028
Okay cool. I don't plan on writing in my LLPSI but I suppose one could. I am also considering getting Fabulae Syrae, which tells some mythological stories in Latin using the vocabulary corresponding to each chapter.

Throw that book in the bin.
Do this

Write the first two or three lines of the poem.
Say the lines aloud, even sing them if you can carry a tune.
The next day, see how much of those first three lines you can write from memory.
Look at the actual text and correct what you might have left out until the first lines are accurate.
Say those lines aloud again and then write the next three lines.
Repeat these five steps until you know the poem by heart. Having stored the poem in your long-term memory, you'll also have stored its vocabulary, along with the grammar and syntax that tie the words together.

>>18632157
He's likely referring to the Vulgate, I.e. the Latin Bible

If I don't understand a word, should I use a dictionary or is that against the method of learning this?

>>18632088
>>18632028
My copy if LLPSI has some exercises in the back which I found helpful. I don't know what the exercises of Exerticia look like, I may have to look at an EPUB before I buy. Same goes for Disco. I just read this along to an audio recording with some re-reading; I may or may not read the entire thing over without a recording afterwards
>>18634947
Okay, I didn't use a dictionary; I just kept reading and thinking until it clicked

>>18631763
the author's of language learning books are not infallible, anon.

>>18631399
>>18631403
Using 5 vowel qualities was usual in reconstructed pronunciation and Romance etymology, until Sidney Allen erroneously postulated the existence of the "Germanic" short u and i based on spurious evidence.

>>18635092
The Exercitia is essentially just a large extention of the PENSA.
This video should answer all of your questions.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5oJctKy_r6s

>>18635868
>are not infallible
No. He made this book with the claim that it teaches Latin. If you need another book then it does not teach Latin.

Why are you people wasting time that could be spend learning latin posting itt?

>>18637073
>Needing additional material to supplement and fully optimise your comprehension and acquisition makes the initial material obsolete.
I'm genuinely curious. What is it like to be completely fucking retarded?

>>18629465
based
>>18629508
cringe

>>18631344
Latin stops were aspirated. Hence Greek κυβερνω yielding Latin guberno.

>>18637220
Author
"You can become fluent in Latin with this book."
You
"You are incorrect as you need this other book as well."

>>18637220
>to supplement
I thought it was a teaching book. Why does it need supplements? Poor quality then.

>>18637356
The author wrote several books split in two series. There is no reason to be butthurt that he separated them, or to say it makes them poor quality. At most you can say it's a scheme to make it more expensive compared to combining everything in one volume (or two for the two series), but small books are better to handle in lessons.

>>18637356
Because he kept expanding his work until he died (the execitia aren't absolutely need, but can help you undertand grammatical concept if you're really lost, other like the disco book are there to be there but the author thought it best to never look at them.
The reader are things you can read after llpsi 1 (first wave) or during/after llpsi 2 (second wave) and add comprehensible input to be consuled, they are also classical text adapted to your level, so the vocabulary acquired will let you know most of the lexicon of, for exemple, de bello gallico.
So don't forget to hank orberg today.

>>18630826
They will. The Vulgate is some of the easiest Latin prose out there.

>>18633362
This is so retarded. But made me laugh

>>18637286
There was certainly some leeway for aspiration, seeing as it wasn't phonemic, but Greeks tended to write kappa for c, and they would have had a better ear for aspiration than the Romans. Also Romans did often get it "right" e.g., parabola, and they also wrote h after consonants in loanwords e.g., philosophus.

>>18637791
Not sure about writing, but I used similar tactics, when learning German. Except, I was memorizing 2/3 of fucking Zarathustra.
Und nun ich kann die Deutsche Sprache gut genug verstehen, und obwohl ich zweifle dass ich bin moglich es ohne Irrtumer sprechen, ich bin ganz sicher dass ich bin verstandbar genug.

>>18637896
German is a much simpler language than Latin and is far more standardized than Latin. Not to mention memorizing Virgil for instance will do fuck all for you if you want to read Tacitus or later authors like Boethius and W. of Malemsbury. It's a horrible method for language learning.

>>18637896
You made every mistake in the book anon. You should look into word order (it's wrong in every phrase), gender of pronouns ("es" [zu] sprechen), and basic phrasing (ich bin möglich es... should simply be ...kann). For your own sake, study grammar.

>>18637218
For support
>>18637356
Better/more effective learning
>>18637770
Really?
>>18637896
I've been studying German for like 5-6 years (in school mostly) and, although I think I can speak alright, I have difficulty reading books. What is the best way to get better at this? I at one point tried to read through the book of Johannes from a version of the Lutherbibel with updated spelling and use Anki for words I didn't know; this didn't last very long.

Me? Learnt Latin by memorising the Aeneid.

>>18638518
>Lutherbibel with updated spelling
Even with updated spelling, you're using an archaic text from a time German was extremely informal. Should you somehow power through it, congratulations you are speaking 16th century Saxon (because every region had its dialect at the time) with almost nothing else in that state of German. All to read a butchered bible restricted by post-Talmudic yid fanfiction. Oh but you can read the og On the Jews and their Lies to compensate.

>>18630826
you can read it even before you finish LLPSI

>>18638518
>I at one point tried to read through the book of Johannes from a version of the Lutherbibel with updated spelling and use Anki for words I didn't know
kek what a retard, why would you even do that? With all the great german literature that exists, you go with that?

>>18637770
>>18638518
Yes the vulgate has a limited vocabulary and fairly simple syntax throughout. If anything it is a little odd because it imitates the Greek in ways not usual for Latin (c.f. the use of participles). But other than a few very regular idiosyncrasies the vulgate is a beginner text in Latin.

>>18638985
I mostly was just doing it for vocab.
>>18639536
I was reading through the Bible (that part, more frequently) at the time and thought parallels would make it easier
I want to eventually be able to read more trve deutsches Literatur
>>18639665
Good to know

>>18639665
>>18637770
Clementine/Stuttgart or Nova Vulgate?

>>18639905
This is the version I use (I'm not a Catholic it is purely for reference when I'm researching).

Also I must add that being able to read the vulgate will not help you to read Latin in general. It will only help you to read the vulgate and some simple stories from the Gesta romanorum.

>>18640147
Okay, cool
Where did you get this?

>>18640366
Ordered it online

>>18640147
I've read that this publication has no punctuation. What's it like reading it like that?
>>18640501
I've looked in a variety of different places and the best I found was ~$30 on Biblio. That's a bit more than I would like to spend, but it seems like it might be a good deal considering that some others are much more. I may or may not get one shortly

>>18640709
Reading without punctuation isn't a deal breaker. There are line breaks when changing verse so there are no blocs of text of more than three lines. You're just missing commas within sentences and a few typographic signs. Latin is sparse with punctuation in the first place.
The work of Weber was commissioned as a critical edition of historical manuscripts. The nova vulgata, based on Weber, has punctuation and stylistic variants that make it a smoother Latin and more in tune with the Greek (and Hebrew) in places.

Directmethodcels is "L'Italiano secondo il "metodo natura" good?

>>18629193
Some advice on learning Latin from Milton and Locke.

>Locke
And indeed whatever stir there is made about getting of Latin as the great and difficult business, his mother may teach it him herself, if she will but spend two or three hours in a day with him, and make him read the Evangelists in Latin to her...And when she understands the Evangelists in Latin, let her, in the same manner, read Aesop's Fables, and so proceed on to Eutropius, Justin, and other such books.

>Milton
The Fables of Aesop, the only book almost that I know fit for children, may afford them matter for this exercise of writing English, as well as for reading and translating, to enter them in the Latin tongue.
When he has by reading master'd the easier, such perhaps as Justin, Eutropius, Quintius Curtius, etc. the next degree to these will give him no great trouble: and thus by a gradual progress from the plaintest and easiest historians, he may at last come to read the most difficult and sublime of the Latin authors, such as are Tully, Virgil, and Horace.

>>18640789
Haven't used it but heard good things. It was made around the same time by someone that worked with Orberg.

Don't think chapters per day. Read and reread each chapter. Master the chapter before going to next. This could mean 1-2weeks per chapter

>>18640793
More from Milton
1) Begin with the most useful grammar

2) read easy Latin texts
>The next step would be to the Authors of Agriculture, Cato, Varro, and Columella, for the matter is most easie, and if the language be difficult, so much the better, it is not a difficulty above their years.
3) read easy Greek
>And at the same time might be entring into the Greek tongue, after the same manner as was before prescrib'd in the Latin; whereby the difficulties of Grammar being soon overcome, all the Historical Physiology of Aristotle and Theophrastus are open before them
4) once prose is mastered, read easy verse
>Then also those Poets which are now counted most hard, will be both facil and pleasant, Orpheus, Hesiod, Theocritus, Aratus, Nicander, Oppian, Dionysius, and in Latin Lucretius, Manilius, and the rural part of Virgil.
5) read moral works and the holy scriptures
>all the moral works of Plato, Xenophon, Cicero, Plutarch, Laertius, and those Locrian remnants; but still to be reduc't in their nightward studies wherewith they close the dayes work, under the determinate sentence of David or Salomon, or the Evanges and Apostolic Scriptures
6) study Italian the same way
>And either now, or before this, they may have easily learnt at any odd hour the Italian Tongue. And soon after, but with wariness and good antidote, it would be wholsome enough to let them taste some choice Comedies, Greek, Latin, or Italian: Those Tragedies also that treat of Houshold matters, as Trachiniæ, Alcestis, and the like
7) read comedies and tragedies

8) read histories and political orations

9) start writing; study logic; read the ancient works on rhetoric

10) read ancient criticism (e.g. Quintilian, Horace) on the art of poetry to acquire good taste

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>>18640836
this

>>18640836
would 3-5 be enough?