/lit/ - Literature

The Bible.

It comes from right wing incel blogospheres. They cannot cope with the fact that global capitalism has transcended their primitive John Locke tier understanding of power and economics.

>>18615569
Its all backwards
Strong men create hard times
Weak men create good times
And thats it

>>18615590
>Be a conservative
>Push hard for neoliberal economics
>QQ when China steals your jobs

>>18615590
"New Paradigm"

>>18615591
why do you think that it's backwards?

>>18615599
?

>>18615569
Yo, that pic is cringe fr fr. Caesar didn't land directly on the Cliffs of Dover.

People definitely underestimate the effect of randomness.

There are a few with similar sentiments i can think of.
Machiavelli 'History of Florence'
>Usually provinces go most of the time, in the changes they make, from order to disorder and then pass again from disorder to order, for worldly things are not allowed by nature to stand still. As soon as they reach their ultimate perfection, having no further to rise, they must descend and through their disorders arrived at the ultimate depth, and since they cannot descend further, of necessity they must rise. Thus they are always descending from good to bad and rising from bad to good. For virtue gives birth to quiet, quiet to leisure, leisure to disorder, disorder to ruin; and similarly, from ruin, order is born; from order, virtue; and from virtue, glory and good fortune.
Ibn Khaldun's Theory of civilisation was essentially similar, with strength gained through asabiyyah being lost in the comfort and luxury of civilisaion, which causes a decline and eventually leads to them being conquered by barbarians, who start the process over again. There isn't a nice quote but this is close
>Desert life no doubt is the reason for bravery, savage groups are braver than others. They are, therefore, better able to achieve superiority and to takeaway the things that are in the hands of other nations. The situation of one and the same group changes, in this respect, with the change of time. Whenever people settle in the fertile plains and amass luxuries and become accustomed to a life of abundance and luxury, their bravery decreases to the degree that their wildness and desert habits decrease. The reason is that familiar customs determine human nature and character. Superiority comes to nations through enterprise and courage. The more firmly rooted in desert habits and the wilder a group is, the closer does it come to achieving superiority over others, if both (parties are otherwise) approximately equal in number, strength, and group (feeling)
>[...]

>>18615590
based

>>18616743
>This is because, when a tribe has achieved a certain measure of superiority with the help of its group feeling, it gains control over a corresponding amount of wealth and comes to share prosperity and abundance with those who have been in possession of these things. It shares in them to the degree of its power and usefulness to the ruling dynasty. If the ruling dynasty is so strong that no one thinks of depriving it of its power or of sharing with it, the tribe in question submits to its rule and is satisfied with whatever share in the dynasty’s wealth and tax revenue it is permitted to enjoy. Hopes would not go so high as to think of royal prerogatives or ways to obtain (royal authority). (Members of the tribe) are merely concerned with prosperity, gain, and a life of abundance. (They are satisfied) to lead an easy, restful life in the shadow of the ruling dynasty, and to adopt royal habits in building and dress, a matter they stress and in which they take more and more pride, the more luxuries and plenty they acquire, as well as all the other things that go with luxury and plenty. As a result, the toughness of desert life is lost. Group feeling and courage weaken. Members of the tribe revel in the well-being that God has given them. Their children and offspring grow up too proud to look after themselves or to attend to their own needs. They have disdain also for all the other things that are necessary in connection with group feeling. This finally becomes a character trait and natural characteristic of theirs. Their group feeling and courage decrease in the next generations. Eventually, group feeling is altogether destroyed. They thus invite their own destruction. The greater their luxury and the easier the life they enjoy, the closer they are to extinction, not to mention (their lost chance of securing) royal authority. The things that go with luxury and submergence in a life of ease break the vigour of the group feeling, which alone produces superiority. When group feeling is destroyed, the tribe is no longer able to protect itself, let alone press any claims. It will be swallowed up by other nations.
And i'm sure there are more, but i haven't read too much in the philosophy of history. It just seems like a perennial meme of human societies to suggest decline is caused by the loosening of morals through luxury and the loss of some previous golden age.

>>18615569
Turchin.

>>18615597
No one whose job was taken by a chink wanted neoliberalism.

>>18615590
Seething leftiod bugman detected.
>>18615569
Historical observation. And this meme was revealed to me in a dream.

>>18615569
Vico - The New Science. I think the book is also referred to in Bloom's TWC.
The cyclical interpreation of history.

>>18615599
ased

>>18615590
you're just triggered because the word "men" is used instead of "human". Leftism is based on emotions

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4KkmtxZM8pI

>>18615569
Show me ONE historical example to which this formula applies, just ONE, I dare you faggot.

It's just common wisdom that can be expressed in many ways, for instance: Good weather doesn't make a good sailor.

>>18615569
it's literally eternal, the fundamental cope of the conservative
thats why most religions mythology is about really great tough guys who lived centuries ago and the ways we need to live to become really great tough guys just like them
christianity is distinct but 'christians' don't care

the interesting thing is none of the ways of living advocated by conservatives are ever particularly old, it's just a a bunch of little babies trying to justify why no one should be allowed to do things they don't like
like today the big things are the nuclear family and the nation state, you go back a few hundred years and that shit doesn't even exist yet

>>18617714
The entire history of mankind

>>18617752
So-called "conservatives" are the rear guard of the progressives; their job is to conserve what was done to the Overton Window by the progressive avant-garde wing.

If you haven't figured this out by now then, I'm sorry to say, you're not gonna make it.

>>18615569
>Hard time create Conservative men
>Conservative men create good times
>Good times create Leftist basedboy faggots
>Leftist basedboy faggots create hard times

fixed it

>>18617760
Meaningless general statement. Please take any overt meme-cycle of this supposed kind and actually read the history, for example the usual Roman meme, you will find contradiction all over the place.

>>18615591
This anon has the right idea, you could easily witch around the ''stages'' and find those cycles in history as well, the formula is meaningless gibberish.

>>18617089
>Historical observation.
Historical observation proves that strong or weak men have nothing to do with the rise and fall of empire incel.
It's the internal contradictions in the modes of production which ended roman slavery, feudalism, and is currently ending Capitalism (TRPF).
Internal. Contradictions. In. The. Mode. Of. Production.
Not that you'll understand. Go back on your opium idealism.

>>18617803
>TRPF
>Internal. Contradictions. In. The. Mode. Of. Production.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transformation_problem
>The essential difficulty was this: given that Marx derived profit, in the form of surplus value, from direct labour inputs, and that the ratio of direct labour input to capital input varied widely between commodities, how could he reconcile this with the tendency toward an average rate of profit on all capital invested?
>The lack of any function to transform Marx's "values" to competitive prices has important implications for Marx's theory of labour exploitation and economic dynamics— there is no tendency of the rate of profit to fall.
Go fuck yourself

>>18617798
It becomes even more complicated, to the point where these simplistic memes serve only to pacify the neuroticism of the perverse imagination of the sort that thirsts for such notions.

The grain-eating city dweller was overall a weakling compared to his barbarous contemporaries--- yet this tooth-decayed mass out-competed the noble savage. What is the measure here for ''strong and weak men''?

There are countless examples of different dynamics which can never be captured by this ejaculation of romantic historicism.

>>18617803
>Contradictions. In. The. Mode. Of. Production.
"It must be said that materialism, as so formulated, becomes coherent, but at the cost of being implausible as a universal principle <...> an account of the spread of the Reformation doctrine of salvation by faith in economic terms is not very plausible."

>>18617824
>>The essential difficulty was this: given that Marx derived profit, in the form of surplus value, from direct labour inputs, and that the ratio of direct labour input to capital input varied widely between commodities, how could he reconcile this with the tendency toward an average rate of profit on all capital invested?
Marx knew about this, and took this into account. The fact that there is difference in the value of necessary labor between countries, and the fact that inside the same countries, the same quantity of labor, produce different values, varying between different organic composition of Capital, doesn't invalidate the labor theory of value, nor does it invalidate the tendency of the rate of profit to fall. It only means that it works as an average.

Perhaps you should read from primary sources, instead of reading books which talk and criticize about the primary material.

>>18615590
You have to go back

>>18617752
>nuclear family and nation state didn’t exist a few hundred years ago
??????

>>18615569
Societies always become Victims of their own success

>>18617752
Cringe
Go back to watching vaush

>>18615590
based, bugmen seething

>>18617752
>>18615590
Conservatives build successful societies
Liberals reap the benefits and bring civilization to collapse because their ideas are not based on reality

>>18617770
Someone needs to make an edit with ww2 veterans and millennials

>>18617885
>doesn't invalidate the labor theory of value, nor does it invalidate the tendency of the rate of profit to fall.
But it does, moron.
"Bortkiewicz (1907a; 1907b) demonstrated that Marx’s solution of pulling and redistributing is logically inconsistent. It turns out that, as we move from labour values to prices of production, the results do not ‘add up’: the outputs of the price system generally differ from its inputs According to Bortkiewicz, the inconsistency occurs because Marx’s transformation is incomplete. It converts surplus value counted in labour time into profits counted in prices, but it does not do the same for constant and variable capital. The resulting price system therefore is half-baked – partly price denominated, partly value denominated.
Capitalists and workers, though, buy and sell commodities in prices rather than values, so it makes sense to specify two *distinct* systems – one deno minated in values, the other in prices of production. And, indeed, with a dual-system specification, Bortkiewicz showed the transformation of values into prices of production to be mathematically consistent.
But there was a hefty price to pay for this consistency: the dual system no longer satisfies Marx’s aggregate conservation principle. With separate systems for prices and values, there is no longer a single µ that would satisfy Equation (3) for all commodities. The result is that total prices need not be equal to total labour values and total profit does not have to be the same as total surplus value. And given these inequalities, the rate of profit denominated in price terms is no longer the same as the rate of profit calculated from labour values."

>>18617770
This has occurred exactly zero times in history. It is a prediction based on essentially contemporary ongoings, which is of dubious value itself.

>>18617803
Spoken like someone who cant even conceive of what a strong man is, i.e. a woman.

This thread really demonstrates how little the left actually engages with history and just accepts what they're idealogues tell them.
Inbf the leftist npcs rage that the rightist do the same. No. Rightist don't accept, they act. Leftists just bitch that they dont have a big enough slice of the pie the right baked.

>>18618045
Neurotypical women, that is most women are sexually aroused by masculine power. Therefore they can viscerally conceive this.

>>18617919
Last time i checked it was Liberalism that turned America into a powerhouse.

>>18618076
Spoken like a feminismbot then.

>>18618087
If by liberalism you mean the pentagon and state investment in military tech innovation.

>>18618087
They measure conservatism vs. liberalism by contemporary notions of the cultural aspects of this dichotamy, primarily on how much pussy control exists within the society.

>>18615569
It's a truism. Machiavelli said something along those lines in Discourses.

>>18617919
yes because those who want to conserve go out of the natural order and change things for the better. Real risk takers, those conservatives.

>>18617919
You got any examples of this actually happening in history?

>>18617945
>but it does not do the same for constant and variable capital
Constant Capital isn't supposed to create value. It only transfers it's value to final product, throught it's wearing.
As for constant Capital, it's own surplus value has already been taken into account, when it was sold to the producer.
I'm pretty sure Marx address all these problems in Volume 3.

>>18618045
You trads are delusional. There are no strong man left, since centuries. All that's left are lackey for Capital accumulation. That includes your jewish fuhrer.

>>18615569
The early Greek historians all complained about the younger generations growing decadent in the glow of Athens's material success. They complain of people caring more about comforts than pride, of switching to argument and rhetoric over action and war, of men and women being overly permiscuous whilst also practicing birth control and lowering the population. The idea of the lower classes breeding put of control while the elite hardly reproduce in order to pass on and not divide their great fortunes dates back to at least 200BC. You had endless cycles of poor flags rising up and creating democracies and overturning tradition in the Greek states, then the mob getting out of control, then the aristocrats coming back in with a foreign army. Sparta destroyed itself through economic inequality that led to revolution, doing what other states could not. The democratic mob appealed to Sparta's history and tried to reinstitute the old ways but it was too late.


Ibn Khaldun similarly talks about the rise of civilizations and then their fall into decadent periods.

Will Durant picks up this thread more critically in his Magnus opus (pic related). Having access to 3,000 years of sources, he sees that the old have been decrying the weakness and degeneracy of the young for all that time and takes it with a grain of salt.

Durant paraphrased the meme better than any: "every civilization begins a stoic, and dies an epicurean."

But it isn't all a decline to weakness. Like Gibbon said, the professionalization of the Roman armies "elevated war to an art, and degraded it to a trade." You can have material expansion and cultural decay at the same time. Durant notes that cultural pursuits improve with "decadence" and great art, philosophy, and science tend to come after the rise of a people. He noted the universal trend towards entrenched elites practicing birth control, which he posits may form some sort of ad hoc eugenics. Climate change, although the phrase didn't exist in his time, plays a role at the local level as Crete or Egypt found their land ruined for agriculture due to over cultivation.

Durant is an interesting guy because he was a Columbia philosophy PhD living in the Gilded Age who go into radical left wing politics as kings still ruled Europe and many had no vote. He was 29 when WWI started. He eventually abandoned leftism in the 1910s and dedicated his life to pic related. The idea was that philosophy and culture were center of Western success and progress for humanity. Thus, he covers the history of philosophy, art, and literature alongside wars and politics in his books, which are truly great and have top tier prose as well.

Point being, the idea is as old as time. There is nothing new under the sun, but it also isn't very accurate and a more detailed study is needed for patterns in the rise and decline of civilizations.

>>18617902
Not him but the vast majority of people in the West lived with their extended family into the 20th century. The nuclear family as individual unit is an industrial phenomenon that took awhile to take, although it was more common in the US earlier.

Nation states weren't a thing until the 19th century. States were the divine property of kings and controlled multiple nations. Italy and Germany were divides between many kingdoms. Hapsburgs held multiple nationalities. Italian, German, and French weren't singular languages but made up of all sorts of dialects and spelling conventions. It was a massive state led effort to make all Italians Italian and all Frenchmen French and to make them speak the same.

Nationalism was originally a radical leftist idea since it undermined the authority of kings. Capitalism was likewise far left.

>>18615569
THE FATE OF EMPIRES and SEARCH FOR SURVIVAL
Sir John Glubb
http://people.uncw.edu/kozloffm/glubb.pdf
XXXIX Summary
As numerous points of interest have arisen in the course of this essay, I close with a brief summary, to refresh the reader’s mind.
(a) We do not learn from history because our studies are brief and prejudiced.
(b) In a surprising manner, 250 years emerges as the average length of national greatness.
(c) This average has not varied for 3,000 years. Does it represent ten generations?
(d) The stages of the rise and fall of great
nations seem to be:
The Age of Pioneers (outburst)
The Age of Conquests
The Age of Commerce
The Age of Affluence
The Age of Intellect
The Age of Decadence.
(e) Decadence is marked by:
Defensiveness
Pessimism
Materialism
Frivolity
An influx of foreigners
The Welfare State
A weakening of religion.
(f) Decadence is due to:
Too long a period of wealth and power
Selfishness
Love of money
The loss of a sense of duty.
(g) The life histories of great states are amazingly similar, and are due to internal factors.
(h) Their falls are diverse, because they are largely the result of external causes.
(i) History should be taught as the history of the human race, though of course with emphasis on the history of the student’s own country.

>>18618087
It was capitalism and not democracy

>>18618112
And people like you can't hold a conversation without throwing high school insults

unless your in a warzone today you cannot create truly 'tough men' and even then it is mostly futile. look at syria, libya, afghanistan, the balkans. have any of the leaders within these countries created or brought forth truly evolutionary ideas? NO.
It goes without saying that you should wrightlift, eat healthy and pursue truly enriching activities but do not be deluded into thinking by taking on the aesthetic of a 'greek warrior' you will do anything but make yourself feel better.
the world has already been handed over to the machine-people

>>18617766
is it the jews?

>>18615599
Based /biz/raeli making subtle analogy.

>>18617714
Rome

>>18615569
I believe in this meme if you change "strong" and "weak" men with men that are perceived as either being "strong" or "weak"

What do people see as "strong"?
I think those that bring forth change and oppose the status quo are typically seen as strong, and vice-versa

Refusing to adapt and sticking with status quo for a long time will always lead to "hard times", it is then that people wanting to change this step forward and are recognized as being "strong"

My pseudish take on the matter

>>18617766
>So-called "conservatives" are the rear guard of the progressives; their job is to conserve what was done to the Overton Window by the progressive avant-garde wing.
This, exactly this. Have you ever seen a so called conservative going back to trad values? Did Trump abolish abortion right for women? The contraceptive pill? Did he close the borders, truly close them? Did he make divorce illegal again?
No. Once "progress" is made, there is no going back, except if we decide, once and for all, to abolish the entirety of this fucked up society.
Progressives are the vanguard of liberal Capitalism. Conservatives the rear guard indeed.

>>18616743
That nigga's reading a tiny book

>>18618142
Real strong men know what is important.

>>18617798
patterns are a false god, humans have a natural pattern recognition think patterns are cycles, and if something happened one way, it will happen again, they use it to attain security, it's something the species does.
>>18615569
None I think, it comes from patterns and oversimplification, the causes of civilizational collapse can be many, oftentimes they are combinations, incompetent/Corrupt rulers, servants and institutions AKA weak men often feature in these combinations. Thus the human mind seeing patterns, it sees a cycle, and because they aren't very good at processing or retaining complicated information they start simplifying it, eventually reducing it to one factor, and thus you get this cycle. The oversimplification trend is very common, I'm sure a lot of people of all intelligence think the barbarians and only the barbarians crushed the Western Roman empire.

>>18620973
>No you see IM the strong one because taking hormones and castrating myself challenges the status quo

>>18615569
Hard Times create Hard Men create Hardstyle.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5BfWyZXBMwY

>>18615599
>and just like that Civilization (ticker: CIV) will never be below industrial age ever again

>>18622684
>being able to see math is trivial

>>18615590

>It comes from right wing incel blogospheres. They cannot cope with the fact that global capitalism has transcended their primitive John Locke tier understanding of power and economics.

>>18621328

I still don't get it why others still stick to left-right wing nonsense but I guess lemmings being lemmings I guess. Did I mention Jews puppetted both sides?

>>18618145
The early Greek historians complained about birth control lowering the population?