/lit/ - Literature

Sex Books

>>18611711
>in today's electronically balkanized society, genre was the only place where it wasd possible to write 'literature.'
He's correct, but it's not only an issue of electronic, but of ethnic balkanization. When the people of a society have nothing in common with each other, there is no possibility of a true literature forming. Genres are preexisting molds from when society was more homogeneous.

>>18611782
But don't we have everything in common with each other due to the homogenization of culture?

>>18611788
No. Culture is empty and meaningless without its corresponding ethnic component. The ever increasing political polarization should demonstrate that. What does it mean to be a citizen of a western country today? Nothing meaningful, nothing that could give you any sense of identity. It's your name in a government database somewhere.

>>18611711
I know Bakker tries his best.

But the disdain towards fantashit is completely justified. And that essay makes me think he either only reads a select few genre authors and is cherry-picking or doesn't know what he's talking about.

The vast majority of fantashit is like Throne of Glass, Sword of Shannara, some shitty gamelit/litrpg or Sanderson. None of those have any literary or aesthetic value whatsoever.
By far and large fantashit readers don't have any standards.
Any argument that goes like "the majority of things is shit" doesn't take into consideration that fantashit readers have lower standards. (Together with romance readers, but they don't pretend otherwise)

Fantasy has plenty of Bakkers, Meme Wolves, Swanwicks and Mervyn Peakes, but it's not what the fantashit base reads.
You can see it in the sales figures, you can see it on the amount of Goodreads ratings. They're not being read.
And this is why nobody respects this sad excuse of a genre.
People'd rather read Throne of Glass.

>>18611814
Then move into a non-western country and see how you like it. I'm sure the Arabic world or communist China produce wonderful works of literature.

>>18611837
>Meme Wolves
Oi, oi!

>>18611837
now do it without crying

>>18611850
I actually did it with a smile because I kept thinking about the times I put McCarthy's The Road in the fantasy shelves.

>>18611837
>The vast majority of [...]
Yeah, yeah. Sturgeon's Law. The majority of everything is shit. What, are you gonna insult poetry because most of it is shit?

>>18611842
>If you don't like it then get out
Not an argument. I don't really expect one, though. I imagine you feel the same things that I do, on an instinctual level. But hey, some Somalian fresh off the boat is just as much a Canadian, or American, or whatever, as you are. He watches the same TV shows as you or something, so we're all the same now. Group hug.

>>18611862
Fantashit just has a bigger majority of it being shit.

When it comes to poetry I only know Rupi Kaur is garbage.

>>18611865
The argument is that there is CLEARLY a difference between being here and being [there].

>>18611868
This is not true. You're talking only about the large commercial market. There's less bad poetry published, it's only because there's a smaller commercial market for poetry in gernal, and the shit poetry remains obscure. The ratios are the same.

>>18611871
And what does it mean to you? Do you have something meaningful in common with said hypothetical Somalian? What work of literature could act as a window into the early 21st century American (or whatever) soul? Is there such a thing? There is no commonality. That is the death of art.

>>18611857
>McCarthy
He's sometimes derided for leaning too close to genre.

>>18611874
> The ratios are the same.
lol, no they're not.
Keep coping fantatard, bet you also recommend nipponshit unironically.

>>18611887
But Bloom liked him, and what more praise do you need?

>>18611879
> Do you have something meaningful in common with said hypothetical Somalian?
Literally every human being shares a few things in common, biological, psychological and social universals do exist and that's why it's possible for anyone to connect with anyone else on some level.
>What work of literature could act as a window into the early 21st century American (or whatever) soul?
Isn't everything a product of its times?
>There is no commonality
There is more commonality and less difference than ever before.

>>18611837
He's still right once you compare it to current "proper" literature.

>>18611904
It's basic logic. It's easier to write bad shit than good shit. Ergo, there is more bad shit than good shit, for everything. Trying to act like fantasy is just especially bad is blatant, thoughtless bias. It's what you want to believe is true, not what's actually true.

>>18611908
These are the things that neoliberal ideology wants you to believe are true, but they aren't. I won't keep arguing about off-topic things, though.

>>18611914
It makes sense if you believe fantasy is inherently bad and that the only fantasy that's not bad, or less bad, are works which try their damndest not to be fantasy

>>18611919
So you were just whining about absolutely nothing and have no contributions but want to save face by not admitting it?
Typical.

>>18611930
I don't think we have a common foundation from which to discuss the issue, frankly. To me your worldview is absurd, naive, and directly contrary to observable reality. It's ideology. And if we keep going we'll just get banned. If you want to think you won, go ahead.

>Ratios are the same

Retards like this will argue that dollar store paperback romance novels are as likely to be a literary masterpiece as something that's critically acclaimed.

>>18611909
Even at its most pozzed, current "proper" (where I assume "proper" is American and endorsed by shitlibs) literature is far more likely to hold value.

>>18611914
It's not thoughtless bias.
The fact that it's commercially big means it's far more likely to attract leeches who only write to earn a quick buck and have no other talents.
The fact that fantashit readers by far and large have no standards opens the floodgates for writers who would normally be laughed at. Just look at the webnovels that get recommended here, or whatever's popular over at arrrr fantasy.

Same goes for paperback romance novels (in their case to an even more extreme degree)

Saying it's the same ratio is pure cope.

>>18611837
By comparison what great works have been published in 'real' literature in the last decade? Let's stick to English to be fair.

what's the worst book you read that you actually enjoyed

>>18611940
What you're doing here is associating mass exposure with inherent quality. Just because you see more of the bad shit because people actually care to read it and write it at a larger scale doesn't have anything to do with the total amount of bad. The ratios stay the same along the scale. Literally any genre with the mass appeal of fantasy would start looking just as bad due to all the low quality garbage. Again: Sturgeon's law. Short-sighted people such as yourself have been overblowing the good:shit ratio for decades now.

>>18611700
Why is the OP cyberpunk all the time when the genre is dead and hopelessly dated and nobody gives a shit about it anymore?

>>18611938
>To me your worldview
Of which you know nothing. You have nothing to say, yet feel the need to speak all the same. Why? Why do you talk to me in terms of winning and losing, as if there was a contest between us?
>I don't think we have a common foundation
Conversation could establish this. But you don't want to have a conversation. You have already decided every view I hold without talking to me as seen here
>absurd, naive, and directly contrary to observable reality. It's ideology
You say these things specifically to protect yourself from any exchange of opinions or ideas. The truth of the matter is that society is more homogenous than it has ever been, you're the one who is splintered from it.
You could do better than this. You know you should be. Do you fear that first step so?
>>18611943
Probably one of the Dragonlance books. They're not good by any means and I didn't even think they were good as a kid when I read them, yet I always wanted more of that shit for some reason. Guess they had that feeling of adventure going for them.
Still could've done without Tasslehoff existing

>>18611953
Sturgeon was literally a coping genre writer when he came up with that "law"
You go tell yourself that mass market paperback romance novels have just as many literary masterpieces as any other genre...

>>18611940
>Even at its most pozzed, current "proper" (where I assume "proper" is American and endorsed by shitlibs) literature is far more likely to hold value.
Not what I'm getting at. Most fantasy is terrible, but even in the last decade we've gotten some good things (e.g. Bakker). So what did we get in the last decade or real literature?

>>18611940
>The fact that it's commercially big means it's far more likely to attract leeches who only write to earn a quick buck and have no other talents.
Are you rallying against literary fiction now? Because most bestsellers fall into that category. Some threads some statistics were posted. Genre fiction tends to be niche, literally fiction is mainstream. Most years fantasy amounts to maybe 5% of bestsellers while literary fiction boasts a share of 50 to 80%. So by your own logic leeches have far more of an incentive to swarm literary fiction, since it's the far bigger market than fantasy can ever hope to be.

>>18611940
>The fact that it's commercially big means it's far more likely to attract leeches who only write to earn a quick buck and have no other talents.
Are you rallying against literary fiction now? Because most bestsellers fall into that category. Some threads back a few statistics were posted. Genre fiction tends to be niche, literally fiction is mainstream. Most years fantasy amounts to maybe 5% of bestsellers while literary fiction boasts a share of 50 to 80%. So by your own logic leeches have far more of an incentive to swarm literary fiction, since it's the far bigger market than fantasy can ever hope to be.

>>18611957
It's a good aesthetic, because the genre has nothing else to offer.

>>18611942
>>18611968
Even in bad years, the Booker longlist holds far more value than what Bakker has had to work his whole life for.


>>18611979
>by your own logic
You've also conventiently not read the line where I said fantashit readers have far lower standards than the average reader. (Coincidence?)
Yes. There's an incentive, but talentless leeches don't have what it takes to stay alive in the lit-fic market.
Fantashit readers have the lowest of low standards. You'll never see prose as bad as Sanderson's getting published as lit-fic.

Most acclaimed lit-fic is also written by educated trustfund kiddies who don't need the money but want to write about their mental ilnesses or whatever they're complaining about.

damn anon you're so well read and cool....btw hows the search for that gf going?

I will be honest. You could write the most profound shit in the world, but if you didn't wrap it in something cool, I wouldn't care. I need things that hit the sweet spot of having that wrapper but also having depth. That's the only thing I actually like.

Also I've read plenty of lit-fic where I know they'd have labeled it fantasy or sci-fi had the writing been of lower quality.

It's never been hard to find the fantastical in literary works. If they have value they'll get labaled literary fiction like Ishiguro or Susanne Clarke. If they're really good they might even be considered part of the canon like Mervyn Peake.

And if it's bad, it can still be sold under a different label.

>>18611995
>Most acclaimed lit-fic is also written by educated trustfund kiddies who don't need the money but want to write about their mental ilnesses or whatever they're complaining about.
Sounds like most lit-fic is worthless trash even below the likes of Sanderson then and only getting published because upper class faggots likes to wank each other off.

>>18612026
Can't be a great author without a broken mind, and if too poor they'll be too busy to survive to write.
Besides the fact he's well educated, his depression is what lets Bakker stands (far) above the typical fantashit author.

>>18611865
>some Somalian fresh off the boat is just as much a Canadian, or American, or whatever,
Not by blood.

>>18611908
>and less difference than ever before.
But diversity...

>>18611837
>People'd rather read Throne of Glass.
That just means that literary snobs are out of touch and should analyse more on what is it that attracts people to ''fantashit'' instead smelling their own farts.

>>18611837
>doesn't take into consideration that fantashit readers have lower standards.
lower standards than whom? movie watchers? gamers? sci-fi readers? you know damn well that the vast majority of the people who consume any media have low standards and most of the media appeals to the lowest common denominator.

>>18611837
High effort bait, have another (You) for your troubles

>>18611837
>Fantasy has plenty of Bakkers, Meme Wolves, Swanwicks and Mervyn Peakes
kindly point me towards them please, I would like to read their work

>>18612137
> lower standards than whom?
The implication is clear.

>movie watchers
Watching is much less effort than reading so the audience tends to have even lower standards. Audiobook listeners for similar reasons. Less expectation of getting something back when you have to give no effort.
>gamers
Not even people.

>sci-fi readers
Higher standards, but also attracts certain giga-autists.

>you know damn well...
But certain readership bases have lower standards than others.
The readership base of mass-market paperback romance novels has the lowest of low standards for example.

Even within genres that's true. Litrpg readers tend to have way lower standards than the average fantashit reader. People reading translated light novels similarly so.

>>18612105
Ah yes, the kid who argues in class that Throne of Glass is unironically as good as anything from Burroughs.

>>18611995
>There's an incentive, but talentless leeches don't have what it takes to stay alive in the lit-fic market.
We already know that worthless hacks have no trouble at all staying alive in the lit-fic market, since most lit-fic bestsellers are written by women these days.

>>18612240
Got me.

>>18612193
Here's a few
They______
_____________
Don't_____
____________
Exist__________

>>18612193
John Crowley

>>18612229
>>sci-fi readers
>Higher standards, but also attracts certain giga-autists

I wonder why that is. If I had to guess, I'd say the only reason this is the case is that you'd get laughed out of the room if you knew nothing about science. You can't just make a quick buck off of Sci-Fi because you have to know a lot more than you would to write a fantasy book. I guess it depends on what you call "real sci fi" versus "fantasy with a science fiction skin on it"

>>18612357
That's bullshit, the best science fiction is only marginally related to actual science.

Currently downloading the colossal sf&f torrent (all of them) to start weeding through them and singling out the fantasy books; also seeding The Gillian Archive because some of those txt files have some rare stories that deserve to be restored and preserved. One side affect of this pipedream of a goal is that I will become very widely-read in older fantasy, which doesn't sound bad to me. Are there any other massive fantasy book torrents that might have stuff that isn't in the csf&f or the Gillian Archive torrents?

Another thing: when the idea of some kind of literary canon comes around, one question that is always raised is: do we include books based on their inherent quality, regardless of popularity? Or should we preserve stories that were important culturally in some way but have perhaps been forgotten?

>>18611837
>Mervyn Peakes,
Please tell me who they are, I've never come across something remotely similar to gormenghast

Patrick Gnomefuss

>>18612383
Even if the "science" in the books are bullshit, you still need to have a baseline of knowledge to construct it. It's really obvious when a writer doesn't know what they're talking about because they fuck up something really basic that the likes of Asimov would never do.

A sufficiently knowledgeable writer will know what science can be bent and what can't. How to bend things and how not to.

Of course, this mostly pertains to the harder end of science fiction, but the softer the sci fi gets the closer it becomes fantasy

Works where all magic users are evil? I'm fed up with "oh no dude, there's dark AND light magic! look, this woman isn't evil, she's a wyrd, she's a healer and stuff brah, isn't that epic? btw war and human progress is destroying our connection to good magic :(((" type of stuff.
I've read Conan or, enough Conan to know that every Conan story is the same

>>18612407
"Hard" science fiction is for autistic bugmen who just want to consume technical term and get excited for next technical term.

>>18612411

>>18612357
The only case of this is with people like Crichton, most sci-fi authors. The rest fall into the 'Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic' meme.

>>18612459

*not

>>18612411
In Prince of Nothing/Second Apocalyse magic has some utility purposes, but the vast majority is purely destructive. There's nothing that could be considered "white magic" by any stretch. Using magic is also the only irredeemable sin and all magic users go to hell. The application of (most types of) magic disfigures creation itself, because humans can only poorly ape the divine.

>>18611700
>Discord
https://discord.com/invite/KWPCM7m

>Book Club Selection
Priest of Bones

https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/37884491-priest-of-bones
>The war is over, and army priest Tomas Piety heads home with Sergeant Bloody Anne at his side. But things have changed while he was away: his crime empire has been stolen and the people of Ellinburg--his people--have run out of food and hope and places to hide. Tomas sets out to reclaim what was his with help from Anne, his brother, Jochan, and his new gang: the Pious Men. But when he finds himself dragged into a web of political intrigue once again, everything gets more complicated.
> As the Pious Men fight shadowy foreign infiltrators in the back-street taverns, brothels, and gambling dens of Tomas's old life, it becomes clear:
> The war is only just beginning.

>>18612394
Afraid I don't have any suggestions, but good work wither way anon.V8RSS

>>18612411
A lot of Sword and Sorcery has that. These aren't high art, but the Red Sonja books "The Ring of Ikribu," and "Endithor's Daughter," both portray magic as evil.

>>18612229
>Ah yes, the kid who argues in class that Throne of Glass is unironically as good as anything from Burroughs.
It's not about that. What is good about Burroughs if nobody reads him.

>>18612443
That feels like an incredibly reductionist way to look at things. There is absolutely a difference between, say, The Gods Themselves and Hyperion. TGT attempts to use a hypothetical alternate universe where the fundamental physical laws are altered, but then uses that basis and takes it as it can go within the current known limits of science. Hyperion, on the other hand, has time traveling robots, wormhole computers, and cross-shaped parasites that make you immortal and retarded.

One is not inherently better than the other, just that their approach to the science is fundamentally different.

>>18612459
Maybe it's just the authors I've been exposed to but I feel like there's more authors that do it well than you give credit for.

>>18612394
>colossal sf&f torrent
Link it.
>>18612480
>Using magic is also the only irredeemable sin and all magic users go to hell.
>sin
Is Bakker cringe like that?

>>18612545
>>colossal sf&f torrent
its in the OP:

>A link to the ultimate colossal science fiction and fantasy collection torrent
>>/t/1023504

>>18612545
Doesn't everyone go to hell in the end in that universe? why woudl magic users be any diferent

>>18612404
As a prose stylist I think Jack Vance is up there with him.
"Suldrun's Garden" is excellent and clearly influenced by Peake.

Angel of the West Window by Meyrink is incredibly gothic. (Golem and Walpurgisnacht are excellent too)

If you want more of that modernist strangeness.
Cities of the Red Night by Burroughs, maybe.

The Third Policeman by O'Brien is also incredibly imaginative.

Could try Jorge Luis Borges, but I'm sure that name has been thrown around often enough.

>>18612394
>Another thing: when the idea of some kind of literary canon comes around, one question that is always raised is: do we include books based on their inherent quality, regardless of popularity? Or should we preserve stories that were important culturally in some way but have perhaps been forgotten?
"Proper" literature goes by quality. Lots of popular authors that are in the dustbin now.

Is there an author with better prose than Peter S Beagle

I got The Lies of Locke Lamora for £2 recently. What is the general consensus on it?

>>18612697
It's a good currency. I like the £ symbol. More soulful than the $ symbol IMO.

>>18612621
Thanks bruh

>>18612697
It's the best book in its own series, for whatever that's worth. I loved it back in 2007.

>>18612697
Don't read the sequels.

What do people here think of Hangsaman?

>>18612958
>college freshman descends into madness after enrolling in a liberal arts college
Not sff.

Give it to me straight no memes. Is Bakker worth reading?

>>18613124
Yes, but instead of taking my word for it, read the prologue of The Darkness That Comes Before (~30 pages). If you like it then keep going.

>>18611957
Anime.

>>18613124
Yes, the first three at least. Really great. The only complaint I have is then being too graphic which turns off people who I think would otherwise like it, but aside from that it is the best fantasy/sci-fi I've read while also being page turners and enjoyable (the two don't have a 1:1 ratio).

That said, the second series that takes place 20 years later feels like it needed some editing. It is actually better in terms of epic fantasy, but the literary premise has been worn out a bit and doesn't expand much. Still a lot of fun in the last 2 books, but the first 2 dragged a bit, though nothing terrible.

There are other genre books I've had as much fun reading (Black Company and Red Rising, but those are just pure entertainment fluff) and others I thought were as good (Hyperion, Dune) but it really does hit a sweet spot.

The only other critiques I've heard that I agree with aside from it being quite graphic is that the main characters all are unlikeable in different ways. There is no self insert character and no good guy, and a lot of genre fiction readers go in looking for those characters.

>>18613180
I remember reading the first book a while back but didn't like it but I'll try it again. I don't need good guys but there have to be some likable characters

Any good books with vampires?

I got A Discovery of Witcher awhile back on an Audible sale but it was more a female target demographic romance with supernatural elements. My wife liked it though.

Vamps and werewolf shows/movies can be good. Buffy and Angel were great, but I've never found a good book. I read some Vampire: The Masquerade books as a kid and even then I knew the writing was meh

>>18613188
And therein lies the weakness. The only likeable characters are the women, and only bad shit happens to them 99% of the time. Akka is kind of a decent guy for his times. Cnoir and Khellus are both full blown psychopaths though, which isn't going to attract the self insert crowd.

There is actually more likeable characters in the later series now that I think of it.

>>18613180
Interesting, I felt the reverse basically. The first set of books was there to set the scene for how brutal and bleak the second series was. The first part of the series hewed closer to fantasy archetypes (as well as their subversion), whereas the second series is probably the best attempt at writing an apocalypse (...or at least the start of one) in fiction. If you've ever seen a movie or read something where you have a sick feeling in the pit of your stomach because of how unpleasant it is, well that's the second series. Best way to describe it is a fantasy combination of Blood Meridian and End of Evangelion. So yeah, worth reading.

>>18613113
SFF is always best when it hits close to reality.

>>18613228
I like reading fucked up characters like that. I don't need to self-insert, personally.

I AM NOT A FAGGOT RRRRRREEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEAAAAAAAAAAAAAARRRRGGGGGHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I was gonna give the darkness that comes before a go but then I saw the Nietzsche quote before the prologue and died of second hand embarrassment

Finished Tau Zero this morning, and holy fucking shit it's not a fun read. The plot and premise is amazing, but the characters and writing were so bad I wondered if I wanted to DNF a 180 page book.

None of the characters had any personality and everyone acted like a child. A team of the world's best scientists simply give up at the first sign of trouble, people get into fights like they're in middle school, and ALL of the the romantic relationships were handled worse than anything Isaac Asimov has ever done. The character drama was painfully bad, but if that were gone there wouldn't be much of the book left.

If the premise was given to Arthur C Clarke and the characters acted like actual professionals, like in Rendezvous With Rama, it could have been one of the better classic sci fi books I've read.

>>18613401
>NO YOU CAN'T QUOTE NIETZSCHE! CRINGE!!! YOU CAN'T DO ANYTHING THAT MIGHT MAKE ME CRINGE!! STOP!!!!!

>>18613409
You're more than welcome to make me cringe but quoting the high school know-it-all's favorite author is laying it on a little thick

>>18613422
Bakker has a PhD in philosophy. He can quote Nietzsche if he wants to. Only faggots like you worry about this shit, whether the wrong kind of people like something so you don't want to be associated with it.

>>18613437
I have a PHD in fucking your mom

>>18613446
Can i see it?

>>18613437
>PhD in philosophy
lol

>>18613401
How much Nietzsche have any of you plebeians actually read? I did my master’s thesis on his late works.

>>18613352
More like the most feminine of all men lmao

Fuck E William Brown
Fuck Pay Walls
Fuck Pay Pigs
Fuck Delays
Fuck Incommunicado
Fuck Not Keeping your word
Fuck No Releases
Fuck the New Captcha

>>18613501
ok BAP

>You must not speak with my brothers. You must not inflame their sentiments…
>…Why?
>For they would love you… if they could.

Death to the Slave King, Reaper of Mars. The Peerless Scarred where meant to rule!

>>18611322
As far as I heard from /sffg/, they only hate her because she won hugo awards. And so that somehow makers her a tool of the woke crowd. But when pressed to actually explain her faults as an author, /sffg/ comes up with nothing major. Only minor stuff you can chalk up to difference in taste.

>>18613771
She's just a really terrible person. I remember her bullying a small author about something inane on twitter and sending her fanbase at them.
Plus her writing is just bad from what the Amazon sample + reports from people I trust showed me.

What's a good fantasy?

>>18613771
Jemisin is the diversity hire of the sci-fi community. Her writing is bad and her themes are just pandering to current social justice fads. Yet she gets paraded around as a genius solely for being a niggress shitting out clumsy allegories about oppression and slavery, preaching to her choir. Plenty good reason to hold her in contempt like most diversity hires.

>>18612406
Is this guy going to kill himself soon?

How do you feel about the ASOIAF being finished, yet the fatty still pretending its not. If he doesn't totally rewrite the ending and make it have sense and be enjoyable, whats the point?

I was really looking to Jon's prominence in the North, reunions, Dany (based in the books) coming west and all that shit, it felt like it has 4 more books in it. Come on George for fucks sake, make a good story, forget about the show.

>>18613771
She’s actually just insufferable. Her works are just a thin veneer for her political messaging.

>read a new book
>really really like it
>forgot most of it by the time the sequel comes out and don't carry on with the series
I can't read fantasy unless I can read the whole series all at once

I've read The Darkness That Comes Before in a week, The Warrior Prophet in 2 weeks and I've been reading The Thousandfold Thought for the last six months.

>>18612697
>I got The Lies of Locke Lamora for £2 recently. What is the general consensus on it?
I liked it a lot when I read it
But I also think I've read about 3-4 different takes on the "fantasy heist" genre that I prefer since. Probably mainly because of the sequels souring me on it.

So much of the excellent character writing in LoLL is weakened when allusions get fleshed out in later books

>>18613437
>Bakker has a PhD in philosophy.
No, he dropped out of a phd in philosophy

>>18613995
>start reading
>they still travel to Shimeh
>Esmenet walks around
>its been 300 uneventful pages
>close book

>>18614004
ABD — all but dissertation — 6 years of phD training minus the final paper. Pretty darn close but I bet it haunts him every day that he couldn’t just finish the damn final paper.

>>18614013
>>18613995
>Metagnosis
>Scrutiny. Calculation.
>I RENOUNCE!
It gets fucking awesome at the end.

>>18614014
>6 years of phD training
This means 6 years of reading books and occasionally having a chat where a supervisor says "how's the essay coming along"

>>18613809
being loved, genuinely and without reservations

>>18611943
Tamsyn Muir's unfinished necroslut trilogy.

>>18611943
Some gay romance fantasy

>>18614014
Was it 6 years because he was thinking hard or was it 6 years because he was hardly thinking?

>>18613965
are blacks capable of writing decent fantasy at all even

Any more modern takes on classic D&D adventures like Spiderlight? No webnovels please

>>18613965
I detest these "people" like you wouldn't believe.

>>18614056
Samuel R. Delany the whitest nigger.

>>18611943
Most embarrassing is kill the queen which is a girly romance fantasy series but it's actually pretty well written.
Worst is probably some self published shit. A lot of those rope you in with a few fast paced and enjoyable books before shitting the bed. The one that sticks out to me is "the sorcerer's path", felt it was fun for a few books and then midway through one deicided that it was complete unreadable trash.

>>18614112
>girly romance fantasy series

Tranny. tranny spotted

>>18613965
Is she the one who wrote this scene?

>>18614129
She didn't write lovecraft country retard, she's talking about her attempt to rip it off lol

What are some good fantasy books featuring Atlantis?

>>18614228
Haven’t read it, but it’s on my shelf

>>18614129
That's a dream sequence dumb seether

>>18614056
>>18614101
i'm a mutt (half black), am I ngmi?

>>18613797
I would like to know more about this supposed bullying. First time I'm hearing of it.

>>18613869
>her themes are just pandering to current social justice fads
Which book are you referring to when you say this? And have you read the book yourself?

>>18613965
Is she wrong? Lovecraft being racist is such a commonly held belief, that even 4chan jokes about it. And not even on /lit/. I hear racist lovecraft banter on /v/ and /tv/. Nobody denies, it, they just think it's funny. But as a black woman, doesn't it make sense for her to resent him for it?

Imagine if someone wrote your race negatively in their stories. Assuming you're white, let's assume a Jewish author wrote a story that made white people appear like lessor beings. Wouldn't that make you resent the Jewish author? Even if the story ended up establishing a genre, and spawned a bunch of new ideas. You'd always have that thought in the back of your head that he hates you for who you are.

>>18614280
> Wouldn't that make you resent the Jewish author?

No.

>>18614287
OK, maybe YOU wouldn't "resent". But certainly you've seen other white people hold resentment against jews for making disparaging remarks against white people. I used that specific example, because it's something I see a lot. So I figured it something you guys see a lot too.

But even if you don't resent him, wouldn't you be at least a little hesitant to call yourself a fan of his? How can you be a fan of someone who hates you?

does anyone have a recommendation for fantasy or sci fi comedy books?
Kinda want to read something like Myth Adventures or Pratchett`s books

>>18614280
Not really. I'm Jewish an I appreciate Wagner even though he was a powerful advocate of the German anti-semitism that would eventually lead to the Holocaust.

In Wokeism though your entire being revolves around "muh struggle," and so you can be butthurt about genre fiction from a century ago.

Thoughts on this? I'm on chapter 3 and it seems fun so far

>>18614280
>Is she wrong?
Yes. How was Lovecraft a "horrible human being" as she claims? By all accounts Lovecraft was a shy fellow who never treated anyone badly. Just holding some racist prejudice doesn't make him some historical villain. Measuring Lovecraft against modern sensibilities and moreover recuding him to that one trait is arrogant and retarded. It betrays far worse prejudice on her part than Lovecraft held himself.
Going with your hypothetical, if some early 20th century Jewish fag occassionally ranted about goyim but otherwise produced great art which I can appreciate, why should I resent him? I can think of a lot of admirable people from history who would not like me on account of my nationality or something else. What the fuck does it matter? These people are dead for decades or even centuries. Get the fuck over it.

>>18614345
I wouldn't consider myself woke, but I can understand her sentiment. It's not really about "muh struggle" for me. Just the principal of the matter. I can appreciate aspects of the artist, without calling myself a fan of the artist. Because I couldn't be a fan of someone who hates me. I'll just take what is useful from them, and discard the rest.

>>18614303
I can still aknowledge a great writer for being a great writer.
Or a great artist for being a great artist in general.

Not that I'd call Lovecraft a great writer, but he did have great influence.

A ton of people still idolize John Lennon even though he was objectively a piece of shit.

>>18614356
>Yes. How was Lovecraft a "horrible human being" as she claims?
Publishing disparaging remarks about a race is pretty horrible in my opinion. How is it much different from publishing propaganda? I kind of get that it's been a long time. But why do we assume that his work only made positive waves and not negative ones?

>>18614425
He was right though.

Ok, I finished the Aspect Emperor. Can we change this thread from /Bakker/ to /Red Rising/ now, I think I'm going to read Dark Age again

>>18614425
>How is it much different from publishing propaganda?
What and idiotic question. Did he ever call for the extermination of the black race? Did he ever even affect any policy decisions in any way whatsoever? It's the other way around, if anything. He simply held beliefs that were common in society at the time. Lovecraft was known to be very sensitive and more prone to suffer feelings of disgust and fear at the unknown and the other, which might have informed his racist attitudes as much as the fiction he wrote. But the bottom line here is that he never even personally harmed a black man and was a good friend to the people who knew him. Apparently that counts for nothing in judging his character. Using the word "nigger" though, now that is a crime beyond all compare. Ridiculous.

>>18614235
Thanks Mt Zion High School fag.
I can track the barcode and see who bought the book now. Thanks.

>>18614500
First, I understand it isn't exactly the same as propaganda. That's why I phrased it as "much different". That acknowledges some difference. But phrasing it that way is meant to make you think more of the similarities than their differences.
The way I see it, is if you write a skewed perspective of a person/people, and then that writing is published by the hundreds of thousands, then it has a similar weigh as someone doing the same with deliberately malicious intent. It's not the same, but *practically* the same.

Was Lovecraft's hatred contained? No. It was spread. One can only guess how his hatred informed the opinions of others. But I don't guess that it's zero. How can someone as influential as Lovecraft have zero effect on his readers where the point of race is concerned?

>>18614425
Why do you love sucking cock so much? Got I took the bait.

>>18614553
>and then that writing is published by the hundreds of thousands
Except that never happened. Lovecraft was a fucking nobody in his time and died almost broke and in poverty. Lovecraft's influence comes from the fact that he was the opposite of a copyright troll: He was perfectly happy with other people borrowing his ideas and building on them, which is why the Cthulhu mythos continued to grow even long after his death.

>How can someone as influential as Lovecraft have zero effect on his readers where the point of race is concerned?
Because his readers might simply not care for whatever his racial views may have been just because they dig the cosmic horror? When an artwork moves you, do you then go look up what the artist's political stances are and adopt them? Even if they find no expression in the artwork?

>>18613218
>Any good books with vampires?
Have you checked out The Golden?

>Deviating from traditional tales that feature lonely vampires who prowl through human society in search of victims or solace, this account of vampires flourishing in their own "inhuman society" takes place in the year 1860, when their centuries-long breeding experiments have finally produced "The Golden," a mortal whose blood is perfect and powerful. Mobilized by the news of this discovery, aristocratic vampire clans arrive at the looming Castle Banat, where they plan to partake of the sublime blood. To their shock, the guests find that The Golden, a young girl, has been brutally murdered and her blood already drained.

>>18614228
The fourth part of the Silmarillion, Akallabeth, is about Numenor(which is Atlantis) and it's fall. Tolkien had recurring nightmares of the destruction of Atlantis til he wrote it. His son Michael also had the nightmares unbeknownst to his father.

Robert E. Howard and Clark Ashton Smith also have a number of Atlantis short stories, but they are mostly about survivors of the destruction of Atlantis.

>>18614031
I mean books.

>>18613228
>likable characters
>bakkerfags: self inter sword
Do Bakkerfags really?

>>18613964
Indifferent. Move one.

>>18613964
>How do you feel about the ASOIAF being finished, yet the fatty still pretending its not.
???
I don't think the fat fuck has written anything for the main series in five years or more. Nothing suggests there exists more of The Winds of Winter than the preview chapters. Nevermind A Dream of Spring. Your only hope is that he decides to hire a ghost writer before keeling over from the inevitable heart attack.

>>18614425
>>18614356
reddit has truly taken over /sffg/ but that's obvious from how the OP post is constructed

>>18614606
>Except that never happened. Lovecraft was a fucking nobody in his time and died almost broke and in poverty.
Well... he still TRIED. You're telling me that after so many years, more and more people haven't tried his work?

>Because his readers might simply not care for whatever his racial views may have been just because they dig the cosmic horror?
So you're saying that none of his racist views got into his work?

>>18614670
Funny, because I didn't even read the OP. Just assumed it was the same meaningless copypasta. I only clicked on the image in amazement that it wasn't an animu girl for once.

>>18614691
>I only clicked on the image in amazement that it wasn't an animu girl for once.
>He doesn't know
You fags truly don't know anime unless it hits you on the head like the retards that you are.

>>18614726
Oh no, I recognize the style as being eastern. Or at least someone emulating it. I'm not familiar with the artist, but I'm willing to bet he's Japanese or perhaps a westernized Asian of some sort. There's a fusion of east and west in the picture.

And besides the style, this has a ghost in the shell vibe. I'm not too familiar with those characters outside of their standalone complex designs. But it kind of looks like the major and batou.

But even considering all that, I wouldn't consider this "anime" in the sense that it's not draw with efficiency in mind. You couldn't actually animate this. This is just eastern artwork.

But even considering THAT, I still deliberately used the word "animu", to distinguish regular anime from the moe cutesy designs that are normally featured in OP's images.

the longer generals are alive the worse they get. Just look at how the OP recommends looking at some stupid charts before asking for recs.

>>18614775
>Backtracking and moving the goalpost this much
Just say you're a retard. It will save everyone's time.

>>18614801
>No, you can't think about art that deeply! It's either anime or it's not! Choose a side!

>>18612394
Link please? I've been looking for Kalifriki of the Thread for years now with no luck

>>18614820
>Ghost in the Shell isn’t an anime because it doesn’t have my narrow-view of what anime art is.
Absolutely a retarded take. Even the artist who drew this considers this anime. Not even that anon by the way.

>>18614726
the artist name is right on the picture you retard and its not a jap

>>18614824
It's in the OP can't you read, you idiot?

>>18614838
they're alluding to it having a character from ghost in the shell right at the front

>>18614834
Ghost in the shell is anime. But that drawing is not anime. It's a painting in truth. And my gripe against OPs images was never about the origins of the characters, but rather the style they were drawn in.

>>18614881
A painting can be an anime. Again, why are you narrowing down anime art style? Its just plain retarded.

>>18614899
Anime regards styles that are efficient enough to animate and styles that are derivative of animation styles. So I would say that yes, one could take an anime style and make it painterly and call it anime. However, that is CLEARLY not the case with OP's image. Nothing about it derives from anime. Hell, even the characters have origin in manga, not anime.
Look at motoko's face. It's realistically constructed. That's straight up an asian woman's face. Not stylized.

If lovecraft is such an awful person, why is Jemesin trying to profit off his name and his work?

>>18615054
>cash in on a franchise
>don't have to expend the mental effort to create something new
>destroy/help to destroy a legacy
Why wouldn't she try to profit off his work?

>>18612193
>Gene Wolfe
>Matt Stover
>Tad Williams
>Glen Cook

That's about it desu.

>>18615109
lmao

stop making sweeping statements if you're this underread

In blindsight, what were the manipulations Thesus/Sarasti did? They list only a few in the conclusion but hint at others.

what are /lit/s thoughts about Cixin liu?
I really enjoyed ball lightning

>>18615176
Great concepts and worldbuilding. Prose is average unless you're able to read chink runes.

>>18615190
true. Maybe I just liked it just because its different, with almost no character development etc
Also holy hell the new captcha drives me nuts

>>18615190
Do you really think the prose would be a lively romp in the original Chinese?

>>18615176
Three Body is kinda crappy. Dark Forest is amazing, lots of Death's End is good. Does a neat thing in 3rd book where the lead heroine is actually just awful and consistently makes bad calls and ruins the plans of responsible men.

>>18615299
>lead heroine is actually just awful and consistently makes bad calls and ruins the plans of responsible men
Funny how this filters so many "female" readers.

>tfw Nigger Kween Jameson keeps shitting up your comfy thread

>>18614839
No one reads the op you dumb faggot

>>18615176
I loved all three remembrance books. Would you recommend ball lightning? It focuses on the physicist who first makes contact with the droplet right? I forget his name, Chinese names are hard

>>18615299
>>18615303
I actually liked dark forest the least. The ideas in it were great but the pacing was so brutally monotonous. I struggled to get through the first half. Death's End was fucking incredible though. I've never read through such a long book so quickly. But yeah what's her name was absolutely infuriating. He actually stoked some misogyny within me just by reading it lol

>>18615409
Yes, anon, its Jameson and not the Bakkercucks who keeps shitting up our threads.

>>18615420
I'm sure you're right on the pacing, it's just that I think those books are best read purely for the ideas and the larger scale decision making, more as histories than as novels. One, the prose is bad, and two, their very non-literary, very little internal stuff going on, not much symbolism that isn't pointed out, etc. I thought Dark Forest was the one where everything was laid out nicely and you could see the implications stretching on toward the third book. Death's End was great too, the main character was just so awful, and it wasn't always clear that Liu was setting her up to be the true villian (or embodiment of exactly the kind of people we should make sure to not give power to).

Would recommend people read them. Great big-idea sci-fi with some great game theory built into the plot. First book takes a long long time to get going but once the scale is set up, it get's pretty awesome.

>>18615457
Liu is basically a chink social conservative. He doesn't think highly of women outside of the kitchen.

>>18615409
Why is it that racist girls getting Black Seed and looking at you with disgust while they experience rapturous orgasms makes me so hard?

>>18615553
Based

>>18615596
He also support Uighur death camps. Not a good person.

>>18615632
believing wigger "concentration camps" are real is an incredibly reddit opinion

>>18615420
Well, ball lightning is strange...
The first half deals with people who frantically follow one goal, in this case understanding ball lightnings

The second half is about the peril of humans and weapons (of mass destruction), and it focuses on idea of a macrocosmos with quantum effects happening on a macroscopic scale.

I felt resembled in the first part; the second one was apealing as a thought experiment, with the warning beeing simply "humans are not fit for such power". Also, as for all Cixin books: characters are a flat desert.
The worst part is the monologue at the end, really forced and sucks ass

>>18615718
Can't publish without a CCP moral statement.

>>18615742
this
part of why I don't bother with chink authors

>>18615750
Like its any better with western authors.

>>18615849
Has there been a non-pozzed Hugo/Nebula winner in the past decade?

Kino. Gemmell is based. The Moidart is my nigger. Somehow he's a Chad and a literal cuck.

Which of the Sons of Fëanor was the most based? For me it's Celegorm.

>>18615892
No

We need to move to new works instead of rehashing Blindsight and Bakker over and over again. Surely in the 15+ years that has passed there are compelling works to discuss.

>>18616335
>Bakker over and over again
its just 1-3 dedicated shitters

>>18615892
Cixin Liu. A lot of Nebula winners are just mediocre but in the correct intersectional group.

>>18616335
Uhhhh, wanna talk about Echopraxia?

>>18616335
My attempts to discuss the Silmarillion and Earthsea with you guys have been consistently greeted with the sound of crickets, so I default to Bakker posting because it's the only thing that gets (You)s.

Looking for scifi books that best gives me that feeling of living in a bustling space station/colony
something that not only feels alive but also different from a simple futuristic earth city
something that's been around for a while and the dust has mostly settled and life for the general public has settled into a steady rhythm

>>18614824
>and this particular bubble inspires me to write "fat pink mast", and this one inspires "cunt became the world", and this one . . .

>>18616452
Mass Effect.
Better yet, Mass Effect 2.

>>18616452
A Fire Upon the Deep has a couple of pretty interesting ones but doesn't spend a lot of time developing them. There're a ton of ideas in that book which should be explored by someone other than Vernor Cringe.

>>18611700
Is that a cyber-troon?

>>18617005
Why do trannies live in your head rent free?

>>18617032
So the answer is yes and you are too . Got it.

>>18617043
I ain’t no trannie nor is the picture, but you are sure as fuck obsessed with them.

Why the fuck is /sffg/ such a hostile and petty general? I swear half the posts in every thread are just anons ripping on each other without any discussion of science fiction or fantasy. It's fucking sad that you guys feel compelled to argue so viciously and apparently sincerely over books about elves and spaceships and shit.

>>18617239
Shitposters and people insecure about the genre they read. Just read >>18611837 and see.

Anyone else into this series? I just dropped it. Only 100 pages in, and it's boring. Typical chosen one set up, pretty cut and dry. It was going fine until I got to the female POV. Can't decide if I hate women characters or if they were poorly written. RIP

>>18617280
You might just hate female characters.

>>18617239
I want to read more self-publish novels but people here hate them for some reason.

>>18614625
Books that have that.

>>18617366
None.

>>18615054
She's just grifting negress. You should ignore her.
>>18616427
I have read Silmarillion, but I don't remember much, at least discussion wise. Remember not liking Eru.

>>18616335

I will shill you this.

>alien spaceship crashes on earth
>its the 14th century
>the black plague is just starting
>it crashes right next to a little german hamlet
>the aliens are insectoids but the species is actualy not a hive mind and this ones are just civilians on some tourist trip gone wrong
>they desperately try to repair the ship to get the hell out of this backwater shithole
>shit happens
>feels felt

>>18617280
What’s wrong with having the typical chosen one set up?

>>18617461
Not him, but I like them. Shame so many people here think of them as cliché.

>>18617487
Same. They’re comfy as fuck.

>>18615409
Only you fag.

>>18614629
Yes.

>>18611711
I refuse to believe this is real. This has to be just a meme.

>>18612485
Fuck off discord faggot.

>>18615450
Yes
>the left always eat their own and Nigger Kween gets roasted on Twitter for not being woke enough
>Negro Kwayn spams sffg for several days in hopes of right wing support not realizing that her political bullshit and terrible writing have always been derided here
>His cat was named Niggerman
It's really quite simple

>>18617710
No, its definitely the Bakkercucks

>>18616216
The one that was so fearsome in his wrath that Morgoth thought one of the Ainur came against him and was fucking his shit up until he tripped and got maced in the face. Can't remember his name

>>18613280
Not really.

Do the Hugos still have any relevance or have they lost whatever worth they once had as a pointer towards standout works?

>>18617765
they lost whatever worth they had. Along with any other literary award.

>>18617710
>the left always eat their own
she's not even a fucking leftist she's a center-right liberal who was a gigantic Clinton fan.
They aren't "eating their own" they've just correctly identified an ideological opponent.

>>18616452
Downbelow Station.
I've tried Cherryh a few times and they've never clicked for me but it absolutely fills what you want
>>18617239
>I swear half the posts in every thread are just anons ripping on each other without any discussion of science fiction or fantasy
I haven't been on the /lit/ catalog much for years but that always used to be what happened on the rest of the board.
It's basically all that can happen when people who haven't read much spend all day on a discussion board for books. If you can't discuss something that's actually in your frame of reference all you can do is fight.

>>18617853
>If you can't discuss something that's actually in your frame of reference all you can do is fight.
Except there are other discussions, but they're drown out by shitposters.

>>18614336
ill met at lankhmar

>>18614228
the lyonesse trilogy

>>18617715
Sandersöî detected

>>18615109
>tad williams
shadowmarch is one of the most mundane and incoherent works put to paper, even eragon is better

>>18617840
>Center right
>Liberal
>Clinton fan
The Overton window shifts only for thee. You'll never trick us here, filthy commie

>>18617908
Not an argument. You fucks ruin several threads.

>>18616427
ok anon serious question: why is Silmarillion so popular when its is basically a wiki entry? third person pov, 4~5 chosen characters out of the dozens mentioned for some characterisation, and what is that even?
muh dick moment on numerous occasions and the only sentiments that move the plot forward are outright jealousy and anger to staunch which bouts of heroism and gallantry are applied, all bow-tied prettily with cool names.
I liked lotr but then again it had characters, the Silmarillion is just nothingness, a fake history of a fantasy world

>>18617962
In my humble opinion, The Silmarillion is the greatest work Tolkien almost finished. It is by far more difficult to read than The Lord of the Rings or The Hobbit but its greatness is found in the way it mixes together epic fantasy, mythology and linguistics to create a grand tale of creation and destruction.

Part of what I love so much about Tolkien's entire Middle Earth story is that there is a cycle as to how events take place. The overall events of The Silmarillion lead into the smaller events of The Hobbit which lead to The Lord of the Rings. It is a cycle that discusses the nature of archetypical good and evil and how evil does not truly die among mortals but re-invents itself in newer and lesser ways for different generations and different heroes. The ring of The Hobbit and The Lord of the Rings is birthed of Sauron and Sauron is birthed of Morgoth.

The entire story of The Silmarillion begins with the creation tale of Middle Earth. This creation tale features around the idea of the one true god Eru Ilúvatar creating minor gods (or angels) responsible for the development of Middle Earth. Each of these beings possess some different type of reflection of who the ultimate God is, that is aside from Morgoth (who begins life as Melkor) who appears to possess all the reflected gifts of Ilúvatar.

Much as Lucifer did, Melkor attempts to become like Eru Ilúvatar, seeking the power of true creation and falling into the shadow. Melkor then moves to distort and destroy the acts of the other godly beings of Middle Earth (the Ainur) as he could not create life aside from the blessing of Eru. This leads to him becoming Morgoth and warring openly against the other Ainur, men and elves. It is these conflicts that The Silmarillion covers in detail, alongside the actual tale of the Silmarils - three mystical gems created by the elves and stolen by Morgoth for his crown.

As a rough conclusion I must admit that The Silmarillion is not for every reader. Many have complained about the rough, almost Biblical style of writing and how hard it is to read. It is not written like Tolkien's other works and part of this is because it was only in draft form when he passed away. Part of this is because it is a mythical epic and not an epic fantasy as readers commonly understand. Yet it is a work of fiction that explains best why Tolkien is the master of fantasy and one of the great fathers of modern fantasy. When 'Tolkien' clones are talked about, very few people recognise the idea of The Silmarillion. If they did then even fewer books would hold a candle in fantasy to the work of Tolkien as a whole.

>>18617962
>why is Silmarillion so popular
it isn't though

>>18618002
But it is.

>>18617987
i have read the work, anon, its not difficult to understand, it is just incredibly dull. Yes it explains the chronology of events but who can get invested in characters when they are not fleshed out; its just a sequential log of events that has been presented as is; even the author(s) do not care about the characters motivations

>>18618004
popular with nerds != popular
does simlarilon have a movie or video game adaptation? no. then it's not popular

>>18618014
>it is just incredibly dull
Wrong! It's anything but dull

>>18618018
What a retarded take.

>>18614481
Hail Reaper!

>>18614481
>>18618042
Is red rising any good?

>>18618020
>>18618019
cope harder

>>18618053
Red Rising is considered and marketed as dystopian/sci-fi, which technically it is, but it reads with a dense wordiness that is reminiscent of high fantasy novels. This fact will only be a negative for some readers. It has the same high level of technical term usage, lengthy descriptions and a slow, plodding plot that has made me put aside many fantasy favourites.

Oh, and then there's Darrow. Khanh's description of him is hilarious and spot on, but I cannot write this review without adding something myself about why he is a Gary Stu of epic proportions.

The guy is absolutely perfect in that despairingly average way that seems to be the defining factor of YA heroes and heroines. He gets everything right, he is faultless, the story is built up around him being so good that he's able to do what everyone else cannot. And yet, he's also your average Joe in a way that I suppose is meant to make us readers relate to him.

Unfortunately, he felt like a cardboard cutout. Khanh was right, he would make a fantastic face of a revolution, but in terms of characters I can get behind, root for and care about... he wasn't doing it for me.

The reason this book does work is the real sense of tension, nastiness and drama. It's easy to get caught up in the atmosphere of the story. You get the feeling throughout that the author isn't afraid to rip your heart out, shred it, and stand laughing amid the fallen pieces. Which enabled me to read on with some interest, despite the slow-moving plot.

>>18618067
I can't believe you got filtered hard.

>>18617908
Stop shitting up the threads.

>>18617239
I just want to discuss superhero literature.

>>18618124
Age of heroes: a superhero adventure by C.C Ekeke

>>18618089
>you got filtered
if something "filters" someone then it's not popular

>>18618133
>Age of heroes: a superhero adventure
>Titan, the world’s greatest superhero, has been murdered by his longtime archenemy Lord Borealis. And from the ashes rises a new generation.

>Gifted with powers on the night of Titan’s death, fifteen-year-old Hugo awakes to the strange world of superheroes. A world he isn’t prepared for.

>But with godlike powers and a history of tragedy, will Hugo become a guardian of justice…or agent of chaos?

>Choose your side in Age of Heroes, the first book of The Pantheon Saga superhero series. Start reading today.

>WARNING: This novel contains moderate swearing and big damn superhero action. If you’re not a fan of moderate swearing or big damn superhero action, this novel might not be for you.

I'll read the excerpt but that warning has me with no hope whatsoever.

>>18618149
It’s pretty decent. At East when it comes to superhero novels. Which, isn’t a high bar to break.

>>18618170
Again, I'm going to read it with tempered expectations, nothing more and nothing less.

>>18616335
There's just nothing else that warrants it. They're the only two things recently that are both deep and also cool enough to get that much interest.
>>18616403
I wish this book didn't exist and Blindsight was a standalone.

>>18618220
Maybe Blindsight but not Bakker.

im begging you please just read one more book

>>18618220
no come on dude the last scene of echopraxia before the epilogue is fucking hilarious and well worth it

>>18618228
I was thinking of reading dragon ball. I heard it’s a good science fantasy series.

>>18618053
Yes. Book one is a bit of a filter. It is fast paced and has plenty of plot twists and enjoyable action, but the premise is a bit to take in at first. It's a bit like Hunger Games meets Ender's Game, but significantly better than either IMO.

The author is very clever at doing paradigm shifts where you think the books are going to be one thing, and then they change into another. So the second book also seems like academy fiction, but jumps into a whole new genre.

The author is a classicist so you get all sorts of colorful references and the world he builds, after some suspension of disbelief, really is very cool. Also amazing battle scenes and like I said, great pacing that also has twists.

>>18618072
I have no idea how you can call the plots of those books slow. It's a constant stream of revelations and plot shifts.

>>18618251
Eh, I say it’s average. Not too great but not bad either.

>>18618225
I was skeptical and arrived late to the Bakker train, but it's actually as good as people say it is.
>>18618232
I really didn't like it. All the characters were insufferable, other than the vampire. The connections to Blindsight especially the twist about Siri being an alien felt pointless. Also the issue of vampires taking over earth from humanity was already done at the end of Blindsight and in a much spookier way. I don't get why anyone likes it.

>>18618261
>I was skeptical and arrived late to the Bakker train
It’s the same shit with you people. The same one or three anons.

>>18618266
I didn't read him until recently so you're wrong. Is that unbelievable to you that his books are good?

>>18618289
Word for word. I don’t know if I should be surprised anymore.

>>18618311
I'm surprised at your schizo bullshit, at the least.

>No you can't talk about a fantasy series in /sffg/! It's a conspiracy! There are only two or three people that like it so you can't talk about it!
I don't get it.

Next you're gonna t ll me all the Throne of Glass fans are the same person too

>>18618020
But he is right.

>>18618322
you literally never talk about it, you just keep spamming namedrops of it and recommending it to people who ask for stuff completely unrelated to it

>>18617917
Eragon is kino.

>>18618352
Wrong

>>18618369
I know a lot of people shit on eragon but I remember genuinely liking the first book
It did get bad in the sequels tho

>bakker but sci fi
what comes to mind?

>>18618395
Some sci-fi cuckoldry.

>>18618395
The Night's Dawn is boring and has lots of needlessly long worded exposition

>>18618395
Revalation Space because it has a critique of utilitarianism, is tonally quite dark, and has post-humans that remind me a bit of Khellus but more human.

Chasm City is my favorite one, or the Perfect, even though they don't connect to the main trilogy directly.

>>18618423
Oh and it has a galaxy wide apocalypse and fucked up inversion of utilitarianism.

>>18618401
>cuckoldry
I had to take a break from all of that; whats up with cuckoldry and fantasy?

>>18618423
Will check it out, I always shied away from sci fi, guess I look for comfy fantasy vibes when I go in for genre material.

>>18618438
>I had to take a break from all of that; whats up with cuckoldry and fantasy?
There really isn't that much cuckholdry fantasy unless you read current works.

>>18618438
Yeah, it has the tone of Bakker, and a similar eerie big bad, but is also different in a lot of ways. The future humans all seem to have mild autism, and are hyper focused, which I guess makes sense because they are modified. Reynolds is an astronomy PhD I believe so he has a lot of cool hard sci-fi stuff going on.

However, there aren't any big battles and not as much introspection by characters.

Afterparty is similar in themes, it's about a near future with where chemical printers can make customer drugs. One drug has you see God and this leads to all sorts of issues. However, tonally it is totally different, more light hearted. It was enjoyable but also ends kind of unsatisfactorily, like the author didn't know where to go.

Red Rising has battle scenes better than even the end of the Unholy Consult and is about a charismatic leader of a war too, but the epic scale and military aspects are the main similarity. Tonally and thematically quite different.

Hyperion is similar in being more literary and philosophical, and the Shrike is in some ways similar to the Inchori mystery, but is far less grim.

>>18618236
It really is. Namek Saga drags on a bit.

>>18618514
>Afterparty
>Red Rising
Will add.

>>18618438
>whats up with cuckoldry and fantasy?
People here want to make you believe it's a meme, but it really is an acquired fetish that only the educated and intelligent will appreciate. The sweet sting of emotional pain will filter any pleb without fail. Bakker comes from an academic background, so of course he understands this.

>>18618535
Tell us more.

>>18618535
>only the educated and intelligent will appreciate.
Ive only seen that argument used for pederasty. It less to do with emotional pain and more with the fact that achamian just became such a pathetic man at parts.

>>18618535
I will never understand cuckolds. Maybe its why I don't understand Bakker

>>18618535
Why is Bakker such a fan of cuckoldry?

>>18618334
Yes.

>>18618379
First book was comfy as fuck. I heard the author release a new book for that series, is it any good?

>>18618369
>>18618379
>>18618632
It was literally just Star Wars but in fantasy form.

>>18618633
Yeah, but that what made it Kino in the first place.

>>18618648
The sequels made it more blatant which was a detriment to it.

New thread
>>18618662

>>18618663
what a terrible thread this one was

>>18618671
Some people are determine in making /sffg/ shit.

>>18616452
Mallworld.

>>18618548