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/lit/ - Literature


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[ERROR] No.18607053 [Reply] [Original]

Did he BTFO Plato or was he just a mentally ill homeless man?

>> No.18607123

>>18607053
Paying no attention to the depraved roasties. Sigma chad.

>> No.18607146

>>18607053
He was the first redditor

>> No.18607172

>>18607053
he was both

>> No.18607221

>>18607053
Both

>> No.18607238

>>18607146
>challenging the most respected scholarly figure of his time
>detested his society
>famous NEET
>edgy contrarian, favorite way to pass the time is to insult and irritate regular people
>redditor

>> No.18607263

>>18607238
>challenging the most respected scholarly figure of his time
He didn't challenge Plato, he frustrated him.
He also masturbated, which disqualifies him as a philosopher.

>> No.18607270

The famous plucked chicken critique does not even really touch Plato's actual philosophy. He was just a mentally ill homeless man, a petty one too

Also: fuck the slider captchas

>> No.18607283

>>18607263
How do I stop masturbating? I stopped watching porn but I still get horny and I need some kind of release

>> No.18607292

>>18607283
get a girlfriend

>> No.18607297

>>18607263
>He didn't challenge Plato, he frustrated him.
Since Plato was a sophist, there is no difference between those two.
>He also masturbated, which disqualifies him as a philosopher.
No, that qualifies him as a philosopher.

>> No.18607301

>>18607292
I don't want to and even if I wanted to it'd be too difficult for an autist like me. Got anything else?

>> No.18607342

>>18607146
>>18607263
>>18607292
The Platocels fear the philosophy of the Cum-Sharker.
The Platocels fear the public defecator

>> No.18607344

>>18607283
Read The Coiled Serpent

>> No.18607349

I was sat around with a few friends in high school, and since we were a bunch who considered ourselves intelligent, well-read sophisticates, we were trying to discuss early Greek philosophy. There was a girl I liked in the group, the only girl, and since her father was a lecturer on philosophy at the local university, I thought by explaining Plato's metaphysical doctrines, showing my familarity with erudite matters, I might impress her. She was, I could tell, beginning to warm to me, showing the early signs of a doe-like affection in her eyes as I expounded Plato's deep, mysterious and profound teachings when a new kid who'd overheard our convo walked over and interrupted me to announce his favourite Greek philosopher was Diogenes. We were stunned. Nobody had ever heard or even thought of something so outlandish and (dare I say it?) based. Before I could respond, my crush had already fallen to her knees and started to fellate the new-comer who proceeded to do a 360 and walk away into a cascading waterfall of reddit upvotes. I saw him a month later at the supermarket, where, when a beautiful grocery-worker tried and failed to scan one of his grocery items, he wittily commented, "that means that one's free!" She giggled, and he winked at me, with a "Cool story, bro!" look. I left the supermarket as quickly as I could, too late as I'd already seen her fall to her knees. How is it some people are so unbelievably based and redpilled and the rest of us must cope and seethe?

>> No.18607365

>>18607297
>No, that qualifies him as a philosopher.
"Wherever philosophers have existed there exists a real irritation and rancor on their part towards sensuality [...]. There similarly exists a real philosophic affection for the whole ascetic ideal [...]. If a philosopher lacks both, then
he is - you may be certain of it - never anything but a 'pseudo'."
- Friedrich Nietzsche

Diogenes was a Pseud.

>> No.18607398

>>18607365
The only pseud i see here is (You), as courtesy of your reddit spacing and lust for Nietzche.
I would say it is preferable to masturbate and live to a ripe age, rather than to copulate with prostitutes and have syphilis kill you in your youth.

>> No.18607431

>>18607053
The plato chicken story is very funny, however I think more significant is that his entire life is sort of a BTFO of stoicism because he actually lived out what every bigmouth stoic just told other people to do while themselves being emperors, schoolmasters, and rich guys.

>> No.18607482

>>18607431
Why tf would you think that he lived the stoic lifestyle?

>> No.18607607

>>18607482
Well to be fair, stoicism emerged as a "watered down" and more accessible form of cynicism.

>> No.18607635

>>18607398
>either masturbate with my hand or masturbate in a whore
There is a third way, you know? Nietzsche talks about the ascetic ideal, maybe you can find out by yourself what he means by this.

>> No.18607664

>>18607292
t. simp jew

>> No.18607820

>>18607607
Stoicism is Cynicism without the performance art.

>> No.18607858

>>18607482
Probably because I've read everything you can get your hands on as far as Stoic and Cynic texts, so I understand the matter under consideration. Everything the Stoics advise the Cynics actually do, to point that the former cope by calling Cynicism the "shorter but more difficult" path to virtue.

>> No.18607865

>>18607053
>Did he BTFO Plato
No, but Protagoras did, and Plato and the rest of the Athenians never got over seething over it.

>> No.18607872

>>18607820
wrong.

>> No.18607876

>>18607635
It matters little what he talked, what's important is what he did.

>> No.18607962

>>18607876
Forget Nietzsche if you don't like him, literally every philosopher or religion that ever was advocates chastity and ascetism.

>> No.18607996

>>18607635
ascetism is for larpers

>> No.18607997

>>18607962
I don't care.

>> No.18608152

>>18607962
Incel cope.

>> No.18608164

>>18607283
look up transformation mastery. heal inner trauma causing you to repeat subconscious patterns

>> No.18608171

>>18607996
>>18607997
>>18608152
Pathetic coomers

>> No.18608185

>>18608171
I accept your concession.

>> No.18608193

>>18608164
I don't jack off because of trauma, I jack off because it's just a thing I do
Nofap turns you into an animal, I have no idea how monks manage it

>> No.18608235

>>18608193
>Nofap turns you into an animal
Quite the contrary. Masturbation and sex in general turns you into an animal, or rather nourishes your animal nature. Think about a time when you masturbated or had sex. I'm sure you can recall a moment where lust overtook you and you resembled an animal more than a man.
Abstaining from passion is the first step to subdue animal man.

>> No.18608247

>>18608235
When I don't cum for more than a week or so, I can't stop thinking about sex and I get absolutely depraved fantasies until I give in

>> No.18608249

>>18607962
Public masturbation is not a chaste fucking thing to do.

>> No.18608269

>>18608247
Because you are controlled by your passions. The way to get out of your situation is not to give in to your desires, but to conquer them.

>> No.18608275

>>18608269
>to conquer them.
How?

>> No.18608277

>>18608249
Diogenes wasn't a philosopher, see >>18607365

>> No.18608301
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>>18608275
I really recommend you give The Coiled Serpent a try. It describes in great detail the precarious situation humanity finds itself in today, why passion and lust are to be conquered if one seeks spiritual enlightenment and true happiness, as well as the way to get there. You can download the PDF for free.

>> No.18608314

>>18608301
Okay, I will.
But before that book came out, how did monks and other spiritual seekers train themselves?

>> No.18608335

>>18608314
Once you realize that passion and lust are enemies on your path to a higher being, on your path to become spiritual man, that the superficial happiness they bring you always ends in pain and suffering you stop craving it. It's all about the right motive. Giving up passions is not a sacrifice then, but liberation.
Once you have the 'why', the 'how' just falls in place.

>> No.18608344
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>>18607053

>> No.18608359
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[ERROR]

>>18608314
>>18608247
>>18608193
Monks avoided masturbating because they knew it was what God wanted. And I'm not saying this in the sense of "just become a Christian". These guys KNEW that God existed, from their first memories to their dying breath they lived in a world where they saw God in everything from the most mundane breeze in the wind to the most beautiful meteor showers to the terrible burning of entire cities, and everyone they ever met agreed with them. It was their reality they the being who created everything and everyone and could do anything wanted them to not masturbate because He said it was bad and who are you to question Him. You don't live in the world anymore. You're the Last Man (or maybe he already died and you're the ape that comes afterwards). What animates you to get up in the morning, go to work, participate in whatever hobbies you have? Habit? Pleasure-seeking? Whatever it is, it won't stop you from wasting your time and energy masturbating like God did for those monks. So maybe you should look for something that will.

>> No.18608379

>>18607301
get a girlfriend

>> No.18608391

>>18608379
No

>> No.18608393

>>18608277
>>18607365
I don't think Diogenes would consider himself to be ascetic or life denying in any way. Keep in mind that he actually thinks that most people call "Life", is pointless.

>> No.18608398

>>18607349
based

>> No.18608404

>>18608379
How

>> No.18608410

>>18608359
This. Anons are indulging in a postmodern simulacrum of religiosity as an entirely hollow performance.

>> No.18608414

>>18608359
>>18608410
I don't agree with Nietzsche's mindset

>> No.18608426

>>18607238
>challenging the most respected scholarly figure of his time
When did he challenge Isocrates?

>> No.18608428

>>18608359
This is the only non-pseud answer that makes any sense.

>> No.18608433

>>18608359
But I know God exists. I simply don't know if Christianity's the truth.

>> No.18608471

>>18608314
>>18608335
there are a couple of methods i know of from the pali canon and more recently from picoeconomics.
1. meditation on the 32 parts of the body, basically breaking up what you find attractive about the body into its components and recognizing them as unattractive every time you feel lust
2. creating a "bright line", a contract with your future self that you will never masturbate again, taking the slightest lapse as a violation of some higher core principle
3. a dramatic change in environment (probably the most efficacious) which attacks the means, motive and opportunity to masturbate (this is why seclusion in a monastery with other devotees is so effective, there is simply no opportunity to be exposed to lustful stimuli)
4. some extreme act of devotion which acts as anchor against future stimuli e.g cutting off your fingers with an axe

>> No.18608475

>>18608414
You asked about what motivated monks and I answered. If you have a better answer then why are you asking? Why not just go ask some child-diddling Catholic priest or some rainbow flag-waving Protestant pastor how they stay so "chaste". I'm sure they'll give you a very compelling answer.

>>18608433
Then you don't know diddly squat. You supposedly "know" God exists but uh you don't know what he really wants you to do and uh you don't know what he really wants you to believe and uh you're not sure what rituals should be involved but hey you know he's there it's just like a feeling man. You could scarcely call that religion, it's basically a superstition.

>> No.18608482

>>18608475
Yeah you definitely don't sound biased and angry at all. I get the feeling your opinion can be disregarded

>> No.18608488

>>18608475
You'll burn in hell, Redditor.

>> No.18608511

>>18608488
>NOOOO U CANT HELP PEOPLE STOP MASTURBATING THATS HECKIN REDDIT COOMING IS GOOD
Fuck off back to your website faggot.

>>18608482
I get the feeling that you have no actual response.

>> No.18608518

>>18608511
>some child-diddling Catholic priest or some rainbow flag-waving Protestant pastor
You're obviously irrationally angry about Christianity, thus you're biased, thus your opinion on the matter can be disregarded. Genuine faith hasn't disappeared, by the way.
Furthermore, God being ineffable has nothing to do with the strength of said faith.
You're boring so I'd rather not keep this conversation going any further.

>> No.18608534

>>18607365
>quoting Nietzsche in defense of asceticism
One of the funnier things I've seen here. You need to read the rest of that essay, because ultimately he does not like philosophers and isn't defending them. Instead, he concludes that asceticism is born out of a primitive need for meaning, out of an inborn lust for suffering, and most importantly, out of a guilty hatred for humans, for animals, and for life on earth as a whole. The ascetic ideal is a will to nothingness for him and he certainly did not think it was worth perpetuating further.

>> No.18608566

>>18608518
You don't understand what was said in my first post and while that might be my fault for explaining myself poorly it looks like a couple other people did understand it so you're probably just retarded. That you can't see any more nuance than "if you're not actively proselytizing my religion you're irrationally angry" means you're definitely retarded.

>> No.18608585

>>18608566
>my religion
Yeah you're obsessed and seething, I'm not even a Christian. Keep autistically screeching I guess

>> No.18608587

>>18608534
He contradicts himself as usual when he complains the Anglos are anti-philosophers. But I guess it's okay to be wildly incoherent because it's all just, like, perspectives, man.

>> No.18608605

>>18608587
It's not a contradiction, he was just pointing out that asceticism is an essential trait for someone to be a philosopher. He doesn't like philosophers or ascetics / thinks that these are low types of humans and that humans can rise above that.

>> No.18608640

>>18608585
Well I am and you sound like a passive aggressive girl. I could kill you in a single punch.

>> No.18608646

>>18608640
cool larp faggot
Your wrist is probably thinner than my cock

>> No.18608666
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[ERROR]

>>18608646
>I'm a skinnyfat loser so you are too!
Imagine not being /fitlit/. Now that I know you're weak or fat I can safely discard your opinions.

>> No.18609304

>>18607238
>>challenging the most respected scholarly figure of his time
he never challenged Protagoras

>> No.18609324
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>>18607053
he was just too based for anyone to comprehend

>> No.18609394
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>>18609324
>Careful son, don't hit your father

>> No.18609488

>"At a rich man's table the only place to spit is in his face"

Yeah... I'm thinking BASED.

>> No.18610816

>>18608404
just get one man

>> No.18610855

>>18610816
Where

>> No.18610861

>>18607344
Who's that by?

>> No.18610962

Dirty barrel boy is hardly a philosopher but hes a based and redpilled shit poster.

>> No.18611043

>>18608247
You have to keep going anon. Enlightenment doesnt happen before the first hurdle, fuckin roastie.

>> No.18611157

>>18610861
C. J. van Vliet

>> No.18611170

>>18608666
learn to read nigger

>> No.18611184
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[ERROR]

>>18607053
This BTFOs Plato

>> No.18611485

>>18607053
just noticed the nigger in the background of this pic. why is there a nigger there?

>> No.18611513

>>18611485
Do you not see him holding up the umbrella?

>> No.18611536

>>18611513
but there weren't nigger slaves back then

>> No.18611574

>>18611536
I'd educate you but you're willfully and knowingly acting like a dumb teenager or a hick by using the n-word so obviously education has no affect on you.

>> No.18611611

>>18611574
>Letting a single word have this much power

You only hurt your self. Im gonna say the n-word

>> No.18611636

>>18611574
There's no evidence of nigger slaves in ancient Greece

>> No.18611976

>>18607431
>what every bigmouth stoic just told other people to do while themselves being emperors, schoolmasters, and rich guys.
Stoicism could be considered an off-shoot of Cynicism and they hold Diogenes and its asceticism in high regard. Nice of you to ignore Epictetus (a lame man whose name we don't even know), Cato (a Roman senator who killer himself instead of living under a dictator), etc.
To be honest I don't understand why Stoicism is so unliked and misrepresented on 4Chan.

>> No.18612015

>>18608471
>meditation on the 32 parts of the body, basically breaking up what you find attractive about the body into its components and recognizing them as unattractive every time you feel lust
Not this detailed but I remember Marcus Aurelius talking about how he should break things into its basic components. For example, sex is simply and culminates with the release of some white fluid for a man.

>> No.18612032
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[ERROR]

>>18609324
>Careful son, don't hit your father
What a savage kek

>> No.18612034

>>18611636
Yes there is lmfao.

>> No.18612037

>>18612015
>sex is simply and culminates with the release of some white fluid for a man
That's only when you completely ignore the effects it has on your mind and soul. The "white fluid" is also not just any fluid, but your (re)generative force.

>> No.18612423

>>18607872
No. Cynicism is inherently anti-social. Stoicism arose from the teachings of Crates who dedicated most of his work to finding the ideal Cynic state. Zeno picked up his work and founded stoicism as a more cohesive philosophy.

>> No.18612444

>>18607053
Yes.

In the end he proved Philosophy is a series of useless semantic abstractions.

>> No.18612625

>>18608314
An effective method is to beg god to smite you if you jack off again, but you have to believe in god
If you don't, then if you masturbate, cut yourself, that should work (unironically)

>> No.18612633

>>18608235
Again with this retarded meme about sensuality/sex being animalistic, when humans are one of the handful of creatures that have sex for longer than 10 seconds and can be passionate. Humans (and dolphins) are the cumbrains of animals. There are major downsides to being overly passionate/lustful (strict heterosexual monogamy is still the best for society; we are doomed socially because we forgot that) but passion is one of the things that seperate us from animals (it's okay to lovingly fuck the brains out of your wife), not make us more like animals. "Philosophers" that say otherwise are coping sexless pseuds with a "if I can't have it, no one can" or "to intelligent too have sex" attitude; at least when confined to discussions about sex.

>> No.18613322

>>18607053
all we know about him are apocryphal tales written decades later and compiled by Diogenes Laertes. None of that stuff happened, they were probably made up by later Cynics to ridicularize the Platonists.

>> No.18613341

>>18613322
It's very similar to the way Christian oral tradition (and later the gospels) portrayed Jesus as always BTFO the Pharisees to make him seem wiser.

>> No.18613354

>>18613322
>>18613341
Cope

>> No.18613358

>>18613322
>>18613341
Wrong. He is real. I saw him myself. I was there. I remember it. Reincarnation.

>> No.18613360

>>18613341
People died for Jesus before there even was an oral tradition, he must have been pretty impressive on his own.

>> No.18613370

>>18607297
>Plato
>sophist
EXCUSE ME

>> No.18613383

>>18613360
The oral tradition probably started before he was even put to death

>> No.18613395

>>18613358
Stfu tard

>>18613322
>oh no, a bunch of homeless people decided to rewrite history to slander these academics.

>> No.18613483

Yes

>> No.18613517

>>18613322
Laertius was a chad who wrote only the truth.

>> No.18613583

>>18610855
girlfriend store

>> No.18613608

>>18612037
>effects on your mind
It relaxes me to masturbate to cute, of age females and motivates me to have sex with one.
>and soul
There is no soul.

>> No.18613627
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>>18608235
Passion is good, passion is life. The alternative is being an eunuch monk which is boring and - frankly - a waste of life. Remember, God wants you to make love and kill. Dont fall for the ascetic meme.

>> No.18613670

>>18608475
You are so frustrated. I can feel your blueballs throught the screen. Here, i will estimate how much time you spend on Semen renention: about 2 months.

>> No.18613687

>>18607053
Back then philosophers were performative. You had to walk it and talk it. Plato can take his featherless biped and blow it out his ass. Diogenes was authentic and dabbed relentlessly on pompous sophists at every turn.

>> No.18613688

>>18607283
Get busy with actual work. I've too fucking tired to fap for months.

>> No.18613707

>>18608646
kek

>> No.18613903

>>18607283
https://easypeasymethod.org/

>> No.18613912

>>18613903
That's for porn, not jacking off

>> No.18614186

>>18613358
Why didn't you just clairvoyantly view the events as your pre-existent uncreated soul?

>> No.18614274

>>18614186
Because i never learned how to count fractions.

>> No.18614282

>>18614274
Sucks that you didn't remember that.