/lit/ - Literature

In Haven in a Heartless World, Lasch explains how the religious outlook on life in the United States, which was dominant until the sixties but whose decline has its roots in the twenties through fifties, gave way to the new, contemporary, therapeutic outlook. The therapeutic outlook has its roots in the formation of American social science, which from early on ditched a more theoretical approach with an empirical and activist approach (Perhaps the best part of the work is Lasch's history of this process). As sociology, anthropology, and psychology entered into their own and into the mainstream, people began to be seen not as good or evil, deserving punishment, but healthy or sick, deserving treatment. This culminates in the formation and mission statement of the WHO, whose formation is rather chilling.

>>18584054
Read Philip Rieff on this process also.

>>18583932
But doesnt ellul's model of propaganda lead to a false equivalence between white supremacists and marginalized folks fighting for their human rights or between right wing conspiracy theorists and journalists fighting fake news? Lasch and ellul tend to be doghwistles for people whi are reactionaries but want to pose as leftists

>>18584087
"White supremacists" are more dehumanized than Arab terrorists in our society. They ARE a marginalized group.

>>18584087
>marginalized folks fighting for their human rights
How do people craft phrases so bereft of meaning like these. I'm just reading it over and over again and each time it seems to have less and less of a connection to any reality I'm familiar with. Someone make a thread on this, I'm too tired.

>>18583932
>in the advanced liberal democracies.

>Because authoritarianism doesn't have propaganda because they don't have free speech.

Sometimes its the things that are missing that are important.

>>18584127

"Too stupid to know you are too stupid" is not because of what you are missing so much as what you have that won't let you even make the concept of what is missing.

If you can't parse that sentence, that's on you, but you will never know it.

>>18584127
I mean if you are a trans person you cannot not be political because you are fighting against a system that is trying to destroy you. White straight males who complain about industrial society or capitalism while ignoring white supremacy want to deny their privilege but also the responsibility that comes with their privilege

>>18584363
Holding society hostage with your suicidality is abusive behavior.

>>18584363
>>18584087
Lasch and Ellul are discussed by people that read books, not by the knuckledragger faggots that jerk off in their discord/instagram/etc echo chambers and become inconsolable and unreasonable after the utterance of mere slurs. Trannies are not being destroyed by the system. Read a book.

>>18584446
Well, he won't need to suicide after that post, but you may be facing murder charges I'm sorry to say.

>>18584363
I hear rope is on sale rn

>>18584363
Interesting.

Have you considered you're a gay nerd?

>>18584363

>>18583932
Read Gramsci, and you will have a general theory that you can pair with this.

>>18584363
you're a tool of capital, congratulations.

>>18584363
>because you are fighting against a system that is trying to destroy you.
We don't want people to eat dogshit off the street either but that doesn't mean we want them eliminated or have their human rights taken away, just stop eating shit retard.

>>18586008
Why does le qui man make such a cute Pepe?

Here's a good one OP, it's more modern than Elluls work and deals with the PR industry working behind the scenes.

>>18584363
And these "white supremacists," are they in the room with you right now?

>>18584617
Isnt it ableist and elitist to presume everyone can read books? Isnt it a coincidence all of those books happen to be written by straight cis white males? There is a revolution happening and it is being led by trans and queer people of color, it doesnt conform to your idea of a revolution led by straight ablebodied white workers so you objectively line up with the reactionary side. Your place in the revolution should be to sit down shut up and listen. Decolonization is a neccesarily violent process you cant question technology and capitalism without a radical decolonial critique of the white western tradition that spawned them

>>18586101
I mean even a saint will start wanting to eliminate these people and take away their rights after listening to them for a few minutes.

>>18586781
A revolution? Led by what...a minuscule mentally ill demographic with an absurdly high suicide rate? They are having their time right now but the pendulum will swing back and the impact will be harder than the last time.

>>18584087
False equivalence how?

>>18586910
There are good things and bad things and the theory bros shouldnt diminish the hard work of activists or pretend they are above it all and dont benefit from straight white male privilege. Maybe just lay down the books for a while and listen to PoC and queers ppl and amplify their voices for once.

>>18584363
based don't listen to the retards itt

>>18586918
Also the existence of subconscious biases privileging straight white men has been proved by numerous scientific studies. But lasch ellul people also tend to flirt with science denial. Gee maybe the reason you hate the media spectacle and institutiins is because they have finally started to recognize the basic humanity of people who arent you.

>>18586781
>ableist and elitist
Wow scary sounding words. Kind of implies superiority or maybe a conspiracy to keep people down but is that really the case? At least 75% of people in the US can read and reading is taught in school early. Writing books natural form of communication for literate people. Translations exist too if there is enough interest. Why is it somehow the authors fault that people dont want to read?
As for ableist, you act like we havent tried every way we can to make sure people with disabilities can understand a book. Braille? Text-to-Speech?
What you imply as somehow being the authors problem is actually the problem of people not wanting to read and this seems to be a problem with a lot of what your revolution is about: blaming others for something that is your own problem. The marginal amount of people that want to read but cant have been accommodated for because no one wants to stop anyone from reading. Reading is incredibly encouraged america. I mean what do you want? Should people be your slaves and be forced to make cute cartoons that lose 90% of the original material so that you can consume their ideas?

>>18586918
If cops and robbers are having a shootout, which party is in the right doesn’t affect the fact that both are using guns. Propaganda is a tool.

>>18587019
Which is why we should amplify progressive propaganda and combat reactionary bourgeoisie propaganda.

>>18587019
>Tfw Feel dehumanized and violated by the system of propaganda as a whole

Its like its designed to get people to hate each other. To reduce people into categories and eliminate the possibility of dialog replace it with cliches

>>18586932
The same way institutional racism has been proven by "scientific" studies I'm sure. The best part is the idiots that actually think the way you're memeing are the de-facto defenders of the status quo par excellence

>>18583932
i enjoyed the way Ellul was able to paint the influencing effect on all things social through the instrument of propaganda in a technological age by the way of technique, very good book albeit longwinded as many anons have mentioned prior to this thread.
>The only truly serious attitude—serious because the danger of man’s destruction by propaganda is serious, serious because no other attitude is truly responsible and serious—is to show people the extreme effectiveness of the weapon used against them, to rouse them to defend themselves by making them aware of their frailty and their vulnerability, instead of soothing them with the worst illusion, that of a security that neither man’s nature nor the techniques of propaganda permit him to possess. It is merely convenient to realize that the side of freedom and truth for man has not yet lost, but that it may well lose—and that in this game, propaganda is undoubtedly the most formidable power, acting in only one direction (toward the destruction of truth and freedom), no matter what the good intentions or the good will may be of those who manipulate it.

Marx's 1844 manuscript on alienation is a great critique of wage labor, though for the social control aspect of "normalizing" the process, look to Gramsci. Look to Adorno/Horkheimer/Marcuse for how consumption acts as a positive-reinforcing parallel process.

>>18588577
Is Technological Society necessary to read/have a gist of before Propaganda?

Horrible printing. But great book by the man that was among the first to design and implement the media/advertising as instruments of social control. He's very matter-of-fact about it, and unfortunately today he seems excruciatingly naive.

>>18588812
i wouldn't say so. a reflection of what his definition on technique is sufficient, that is, the underlying motivation for the progression through technology that modern society has adopted. the reason for its existence is that it speaks to our biological clock, our mortal clock and that is why we unconsciously steer towards the more efficient approach, despite the actions that make up that approach being predetermined. the result we are left with is the mechanization of man.
>t. someone who hasn't read technological society yet
however, i do regret not reading it first
>>18588828
the man who wrote the introduction to Bernays has been a professor for two decades at a university in New York and teaches a course on propaganda. he had his course removed a couple months ago for I believe it was, "medical disinformation" or some other blabber the cancel culture sought to impose. Corbett did an interview with him in May.

>>18586918
Straight white males are just seen as more trustworthy and better to have around than gay black trannies because as a group they are

>>18589030
That's very interesting about the Bernays book, a five minute video and glance at a Wikipedia page makes me wanna dive deeper into Mr. Crispin (and dig up my copy of Bernays to read the Introduction). Thanks.

>>18584054
>This culminates in the formation and mission statement of the WHO, whose formation is rather chilling.

>>18586918
You have screwed priorities.

>>18583932
Beyond Human Rights by Alain de Benoist

Edward Bernays

>>18584363
>I mean if you are a trans person you cannot not be political because you are fighting against a system that is trying to destroy you.

i'll bite the bait, Had you have read Ellul at all especially the Technological society you would have known the following point:

>Systems of civilization and politics evolve with time
>They evolve in consideration with technique's best way
>Perfectly remplaceable part are superior to parts anchored to Space, Time or specific Functions and Forms in Technique's view

Thus your argue as for perceived hatred coming from the system is, well looking outside at any point you'd realize the system is actually adapting already to technique's optimal way of doing things.
Systems are complex and have many parts some may work in coordination or opposition for the sake of evolutive capacitance.

Civilization nowadays births cultural group or split society into them to better target them with technique, it's would not be wrong to compare this to how farmers handle herds as in this case herd mentality is literally at work.
Thus i'd argue you're misled about Theory to begin with, you've come to theory to look for validation about a current movement's practice but reality is you should look to Theory for direction and explanations as to what you're struggling against.

>>18586918
>Maybe just lay down the books for a while and listen to PoC and queers ppl and amplify their voices for once.

Think before you act.
Listen before you speak.
Rushing into agendas and politics with personal vendettas and personal interest in mind for one's own community above others is what got you in your predicament.
If you were to overcome you enemy using the same tool they used to oppress you, you'd just be dooming yourself to be overthrown in the same way you overthrew them.

So yeah maybe people shouldn't put down their book and instead you should pick one up, this is a literature board afterall.

>>18587103
That's not what propaganda does, that's just how people in power are using it. Propaganda by Bernays talks about the moral obligations of a propagandist. He says they should only seek to inform truth basically.

>>18588812
Wage labor is good you fucking moron. It's mutually beneficial.

>>18587103
https://cyber-torture.com/

>>18584363
>>18586918
Based, I love transpeople and the BIPOC crew. They are like the center's janissaries, keeping the left in check (the right's incompetence keeps them in check anyway). As long as trans/BLM/etc. rights are the main force in left-wing politics, I rest secure knowing that we will not fall for revolution or reaction.

>>18590643
Samefag