/lit/ - Literature

>>18524258
Is it possible for an ESL like me to write like Nabokov?

>>18524258
>Where does your story take place?
Parola military base and environs.
>Why?
It's where my service took place.

>>18524258
>Where does your story take place?
Undah da sea
>Why?
It's after the flooding of Ragnarok

>>18524263
he is esl too. You can do it too

First time writing something. Know that I have a lot of work to do. Any criticism is welcomed.

>Where does your story take place?
2030-40s Hong Kong
>Why?
It's part of a set of treaty ports

>>18524263
>he wants to write like nabokov
kinda cringe desu

i write 500 words per day. is this good or do i need to pick up the slack?

>>18524353
500 words a day is good but trying to get shit done quickly shouldn't be your goal

joyce wrote the wake over 20 years bro

>>18524339
You don't need to use commas for every single pause. There are way too many for these sentences. I'm also not getting much of an image in my head. Be more vivid, these adjectives are just wasting my time.

>>18524339
>that of which
Reword this. Too many unnecessary comma spices in the very first sentence.
>peculiarly lucid sensitivity of the senses
This isn't BAD, but it works harder than it's worth. Save shit like this for when it actually matters. What you're describing isn't worth the words you use or the tone by which you relate it.
>cities
City's.

Keep writing and keep reading and you will be able to see what's wrong with all this. Nobody can implant that knowledge in your head.

>>18524507
Thank you for your feedback man. I just started reading and writing seriously this year so I’m aware I have a long ways to go. I know I have to just keep writing in order to get all the bad writing out of the way, even though it seems like that day is very far off at the moment.

I'm a fucking sperg that disliked and failed English out of stubborn belief I have no talent or imagination, but wanna git gud now after getting back to reading and joining uni where I need to write all the time.

>tl;dr
What are some top resources for learning to write generally/non-fiction? I can get to fiction later but that's all that the OP has

>>18524563
>What are some top resources for learning to write generally/non-fiction?
There are none. There are schools of thought that try to distill writing down into a science, but very few of those people have ever taken those systems and written anything of literary merit. If writing did have rules and if you could use these rules to create something great, wouldn't it stand to logic that those with the greatest understanding of those rules would also be the greatest writers? This isn't to say that great writers don't have a great understanding of writing, but they don't always have an analytical understanding. This is a non-answer, but the solution is simple: read more, write more. Writing is an intuitive process more than an analytical one with rules you can follow and charts you can make. Intuition is primarily a function of experience. Experience more, both as a writer and as a reader, and you'll be getting closer.

>>18524593
Thanks anon
I was planning on just starting some blog or some shit I post little essays or reviews to for writing practice anyway, was just hoping there was a list of dos and do nots to give me a headstart

>>18524339
Commas have been mentioned, but I just want to reiterate that this is something you should be able to pick up from your own reading. You never see that kind of comma use anywhere, what made you want to use them like that?

>>18524721
I’ll be honest, I am on a lot of Adderall.

>>18524593
>Writing is an intuitive process more than an analytical one with rules you can follow and charts you can make.
Me and my brother have just started writing and I've realised some of what you're saying. It's not like the rules of writing music where everything follows a key and time signature. In Music you have massive amounts of freedom but you're still generally constricted to those guidelines if you're writing conventional music, in writing it's more vague about what you can and can't do and how you make it all work together in your own way.

>>18524258
Trying to write jueju in English. Why are there so few monosyllabic words?!

Flies drop drink good wine
Bugs fall swig sweet vine
Man stands drops gross pox
Flies swim chug nice shrine

>>18524258
>pic
I think what a lot of aspiring writers don't understand at first is that you'll never ever write something and leave it as is. Dissatisfaction with what you wrote initially is fine because you're looking at multiple drafts. First one is really just to put your raw ideas into text.

>>18524549
I have a feeling your comma abuse may come from the fact you want to further explain in detail, but it results in pulling the breaks mid-sentence when used in succession. If you think a sentence needs to be expanded to convey more information reformulate it instead.

>>18524937
Thanks for the feedback. I will definitely reread and reformulate in the morning when I have a fresh perspective again. I think I focus way too much on picking apart sentences and trying too hard, which is extremely inefficient.

>>18524924
>First one is really just to put your raw ideas into text.
this cannot be emphasized enough. you'll probably cut a third of it and rewrite a quarter of whatever remains.

>>18524353
Pick up the slack, that sounds like a rate meant for someone who hates the essay they are writing.

>>18524258
>Where does your story take place? Why?
In a mountainous continent that was formerly drowned and flooded by magic Iberians who worship a giant slug that ate a mountain.

How do I make a story with just a few interesting characters instead of a fuckload of flat ones? Every time I try something new I somehow end up making a million characters because I have so many ideas for them but then I can never actually implement them well

>>18524258
>Where does your story take place?
Super generic fantasy D&D style world

>Why?
Writing a d&d adventure short story, but from the perspective and life of the tavern owner/ barkeep and how a tavern is always the cliche center/start of all adventurers

>>18524339

Too many big words, makes you look stupid.

>>18524353

That's pretty shit anon.

>>18525198

If you've got too many characters with no depth, then figure out how to combine as many of them as possible into as few characters as you can.

Here's a completely arbitrary example: You have three characters who are all cops. Combine their best qualities into one cop.

Or, if the three cops serve some story function and some other character also helps that process along, combine them all together.

Other than that, I suggest you take a deep interest in other people. There's no such thing as a flat person anon, and if you realize that, you'll never write a flat character again.

Do you think Martin is a good writer, or that he is just good at stories that draw you in (for those that enjoy them)?

>>18524353
lol

>>18525432
I think he is a better writer than people around here would be willing to give him credit for but I also think just saying that runs the risk of overstating just how good he is. A lot of what he does is, in fact, gimmick. Like you said, it’s designed to draw you in and some of those techniques would have that effect in most stories they’re applied to. It’s a very mechanistic, marketing department sort of way of writing, but it works and I’m not sure I can really say it’s “bad” because it’s not.

>>18525432
He is, but he is unreliable at making interesting characters and made a saga 2 books longer than he's capable of writing

>>18525535
>>18525535
Teach me his gimmicks? I wasn't reading critically when I read ASOIAF and don't have the time to re-read them

I find it so hard to come up with an idea that I think is a winner. I don’t know if I’m just unoriginal or too self critical or what. Meanwhile, I already detailed how I’ve found another work which hits all the notes I’ve wanted to hit which I would’ve thought were good. Now, I don’t even know if they were mine originally or if I’m just saying that’s what I wanted in retrospect because that was so good.

>>18525198
take inspiration from real life

something short i wrote

Last night I had a dream about the forest fire. The red glow was beaming deep behind the treeline and set the sky ablaze. A pillar of smoke. The crisp smell of blackened wood. I bumped and scraped my bicycle past the unmoving traffic, my glasses once again fogged red with sweat and tears and taillights.

A faceless firefighter stood between me and the flames. Get out, he said. Back up. Go home, boy. I wanted to scream. The flames licked the wood and spat out crackling twigs, bellowed with laughter in a heat wave that burned my cheeks like a backhand slap. I have my cat, I wanted to say, to shout at him. She’s lost and she’s old.

In my sleep I grit my teeth and heaved with a dry throat.

The firefighter leveled his facelessness to mine. Go. Home. My ears were ringing. He grabbed my shoulders and shoved me, sending me tumbling down to my bicycle. She was afraid of noises. I thought about how the bursting wood must’ve scared her, eyes bulging, hairs standing, cornered by the vacuum cleaner, how she sunk her head and ears into my armpit, the hummingbird beating of her chest as I carried her away from the room. I felt her soft fur in my hands— The rubber handles pulled and grazed the skin of my palm.

Today, my wife taught me how to crush animal bone to fertilize plants.

>>18525054
>>18525333
>>18525501
What's the problem 500 a day is a great number to be at.

>>18525562
Ideas aren't formed in a vacuum originality can be good but the execution matters more to me.

>>18524353
That's like 20 minutes of work.

>>18524339
Your best sentences were your shorter ones. As others mentioned, using too many commas made the pace feel jarring to read at times. I'd like to read what comes next, so you got that working for you.

>>18525331
Literally every classic writer needs to have a word with you

>>18524339
>that of which
>tangible poisons
>falls victim to bodily functions
>peculiarly lucid sensitivity of the senses
>(sweating is) as if his body is crying
>goes to doctor...for insect bites...gets recommendation for psychoanalyst

>>18525967
t. unoriginal faggot

>>18525967
both need to be there equally, it’s like for a dancer : technique AND unique stage presence

>>18524353
it depends, don’t worry about this kind of thing

>>18525432
Hes alright but some characters are really boring desu

>>18526028
Not really. It all depends on the way you write, your writing process. 500 words can take a whole day if you're also editing at the same time you're writing.

>>18525925
>What's the problem 500 a day is a great number to be at.
Because at a rate like that you spend barely any time writing and your idea just gets fucked because you are not frequently engaging with it.

>>18524258
>Where does your story take place? Why?
It takes place in a colonized part of the Orion Arm, in the 29th century. Most scenes take place aboard space ships, or O'Neil Cylinders. Billions died in a conventional world war gone nuclear in 26th century Terra, almost the entire planet barring SEA/Australia are permanently rendered sterile glassed wastelands. Humanity threw all it could muster into a space colonization program that culminated into a new age manifest destiny of the stars

Yes, I'm done now. I was never going to become the next Faulkner, the next Nabokov or the next Joyce, but I hid behind the language barrier to avoid criticism for months, maintaining an illusion that was fun to live in while it lasted. I had thought my country's education system to be topmost in the world, but this turned out to be utter bollocks. A child of 18, a person ten years my junior, has a greater vocabulary than I, who had to look up the word “topiary”, and no one likes the expression theory of art anymore, I am likened to a long lost dinosaur.
This will be my final post on /lit/. I've been humiliated and exposed as a fraud. My writing is pretentious, infantile, banal drivel. My observations are dull, my language grade school level. My tenses are mixed up; I use colloquialisms, ellipses and onomatopoeia. I mix tired and trite idioms together to obfuscate their unoriginality with a veneer of irony; I have continued to recite ornate Jewish chimpanzee parables with diminishing returns. The parable seemed very clearly to me to be asking me whether or not the now-grown-adult can choose. I say yes, of course, but that's not my issue.
I was never cut out for writing. I began writing my "book" on January 6th. Since then I've produced 108 thousand words for it. These words are a tide of garbage without value, without insight, without form. The themes of time, space, infinity, memory and pointless duelling are not present in my work. It was never real writing, it was anime and weebshit!
Story arcs, character arcs, narrative arcs, these are all outdated terms. You say what you hear, and only the anime fandom uses the term “arc” anymore. I am a toad! Look how many words I wrote, because apparently literature is bodybuilding and just aimlessly typing will somehow improve my writing. My appetites grew as I wrote, I set a goal of a 100 thousand words when I began, only for the cancerous growth to demand a 137 thousand words soon enough to be completed, and still I don't even know what genre it is that I'm writing. Is it autofiction? A comedy? A picaresque? Am I merely shitposting edgelord-triggering diarrhea in neo-emo gothic revivalist gestalt?
Regardless, I have failed, and even in my failure I have merely imitated how people who think they write well but write poorly write, and I couldn't even do that well. "Oh I can do that anytime if I wanted to" I thought, but no. I have put down my pen. Never again will my fingers click-clack across the keyboard. No more outlines, no more characters. Goodbye.

I'm now reading Dracula to find out what happens, so I can write the corresponding chapter in Blackula.

>>18525198
I don't know if this is actually sound advice but this is what helps me I think

Come up with a character and write a short story for them. Even if it's off the cuff. A one off scenario that fits the setting of your world. You'll get a proper feel for them. Then, when writing, only use characters you've managed to write a short story for. If you feel the need to include new important characters, write more short stories for them

Even if you don't include as much characterization for those characters in the primary book itself, you'll still write them more solidly because you'll have a better understand of how they should think/react to the events of your story instead of trying to make puzzle pieces that don't quite shape up fit together

Still can't believe how suicidal writers are

Recommendations for a good, physical dictionary and thesaurus? Everything in the bookstore is the abridged version.

How many words per day do you guys write?

>>18527431
Depends on how i feel, some days maybe 1 others ive hit 2000-3000 and been writing till the early morning. I normally delete my work when I read it back.

>>18527431
I've been stuck in editing/planning hell for a while now, but I usually aim for a consistent 500/day when I'm drafting.

>>18524258
>Where does your story take place?
In a sprawling, towering labyrinthine megacity that is constantly building upwards as to not sink wholly into the corroding dreck below. The city itself is on a former cultivation deathworld, but the uncountable millennia and cycles of growth, prosperity, and destruction have eroded it into a shambling deathpit with no escape.

>Why?
I wanted to make a xianxia cyberpunk detective story.

>>18527431
250-300

>>18526657
>500 words can take a whole day if you're also editing at the same time you're writing.
I don't know what you do to waste the whole day on 500 words, but it's definitely not editing

>>18524339
It's nice, but far too wordy of course, and the commas are annoying. Far too "impressive". When lit gets too wordy, it's always masturbatory. Feels like it's going "underground", deeper into fanciful description. I feel like too much wordiness almost always shows amateurishness -- a fear of actually getting on with the story. Know what I mean?

I find my best writing has a drive to it, and my best writing comes from writing as if speaking, and speaking to someone I know. Like, I'll pick a professor I like, and imagine I'm writing them an extensive letter. I try to notice when I use words I've never used in real life before.

They say "write what you know", and a lot of that is because people CAN TELL when you're writing out of your ass.

Your metaphors are nice, but perhaps you're too hasty to make them because they're impressive.

Like, it's a fine little piece, but after I've read it, I can't recall what picture I was supposed to have, or where the action lay.

Good job, though. How long did this take?

>>18525432
Maybe a minority opinion, but I can't stand his writing. Clearly Martin is a huge nerd, and his writing feels more like a novelization of fantasy movies he has in his head, or like a Skyrim nerd writing fanfic of his favorite "cool" parts of the game.

Okay I have a minor problem.
> vaguely medieval city
> good guy guard has problem, 6 people in their mid teens to early 20s kidnapped
> due to loyalties on the part of the suspects, good guy guard deduces that one specific young man is next
> visits his family
> enter evil noble, he visits the same family shortly after good guy guard arrived
> good guy guard tells them what happened
> suspects likely need the victims dead, so he is pressed for time -> just wandering about asking beggars if they saw something is likely to lead to many red herrings and not a viable option
> good guy guard, evil noble and family in question see 2 options
> use the boy as bait to lure out the suspects and follow them to where they keep the rest
> evil noble has been investigating same case from a different angle, knows the suspects hired two executioners from a foreign country to do the deed for them, suggests that they just tail the executioners instead of endangering the boy
Now the problem is that 'new character swoops in and has all the answers' is a trope that I'd rather avoid if there was another solution.

/wg/, how bullshit is this?

>character is introduced as a timid, anxious girl with illusion magic in a world where non-magical things tend to be more realistic
>while useless in combat, slapstick gags frequently have her doing things that she shouldn't physically be strong enough to do, like crushing a glass in her bare hands when her crush compliments her
>over the course of the story she starts finding her courage and learning to use her magic more effectively
>its revealed that if she pushes herself she can even make her illusions solid
>the slaptick feats of strength also start happening in more dramatic moments, with increasingly flimsy deniability
>it comes to a head when during the final battle when she throws a grand piano

>>18524258
>where does your story take place
On the outskirts of a town they’ve just ransacked
>why
It’s a short story and I don’t think I’ll have the time to show the ransacking , and this is a good stage for the characters to monologue

>>18527750
Depends on what demographic this is for. Sounds perfect for a MG story.

>>18527747
>evil noble visits the same family
here's a question. why is the noble himself visiting the family? wouldn't it make more sense for the noble to have a number of people on his payroll that do his work for him, and if he wants to speak to people wouldn't he just offer an invitation (sometimes one they can't refuse) to come to his manor. I assume good guy guard can't beat information out of a noble, but the henchmen the noble has doing his work should be more fair game. have your guard notice the henchmen, find it odd, detain one of them on some trumped up charge, and question them. The henchman may feel compelled to tell the guard because they are, in fact, not doing anything wrong at all. They may tell the guard just to rub it in his face that the guard is stupid and worthless, and they're actually doing something good.

How do I go about getting *good* feedback on my writing? I am willing to pay.

Yes, I'm done now. I was never going to become the next Faulkner, the next Nabokov or the next Joyce, but I hid behind the language barrier to avoid criticism for months, maintaining an illusion that was fun to live in while it lasted. I had thought my country's education system to be topmost in the world, but this turned out to be utter bollocks. A child of 18, a person ten years my junior, has a greater vocabulary than I, who had to look up the word “topiary”, and no one likes the expression theory of art anymore, I am likened to a long lost dinosaur.
This will be my final post on /lit/. I've been humiliated and exposed as a fraud. My writing is pretentious, infantile, banal drivel. My observations are dull, my language grade school level. My tenses are mixed up; I use colloquialisms, ellipses and onomatopoeia. I mix tired and trite idioms together to obfuscate their unoriginality with a veneer of irony; I have continued to recite ornate Jewish chimpanzee parables with diminishing returns. The parable seemed very clearly to me to be asking me whether or not the now-grown-adult can choose. I say yes, of course, but that's not my issue.
I was never cut out for writing. I began writing my "book" on January 6th. Since then I've produced 108 thousand words for it. These words are a tide of garbage without value, without insight, without form. The themes of time, space, infinity, memory and pointless duelling are not present in my work. It was never real writing, it was anime and weebshit!
Story arcs, character arcs, narrative arcs, these are all outdated terms. You say what you hear, and only the anime fandom uses the term “arc” anymore. I am a toad! Look how many words I wrote, because apparently literature is bodybuilding and just aimlessly typing will somehow improve my writing. My appetites grew as I wrote, I set a goal of a 100 thousand words when I began, only for the cancerous growth to demand a 137 thousand words soon enough to be completed, and still I don't even know what genre it is that I'm writing. Is it autofiction? A comedy? A picaresque? Am I merely shitposting edgelord-triggering diarrhea in neo-emo gothic revivalist gestalt?
Regardless, I have failed, and even in my failure I have merely imitated how people who think they write well but write poorly write, and I couldn't even do that well. "Oh I can do that anytime if I wanted to" I thought, but no. I have put down my pen. Never again will my fingers click-clack across the keyboard. No more outlines, no more characters. Goodbye.

>>18527895
> giving good guy guard a trail to find out what the noble knows
That's actually a good idea, thanks.

>James Joyce?
>Yeah, grade 8 seems about right...
I really hope you don't use this tool, anons.

>>18527999
Your Double tripple do to to ro do doubbles of three nines! Hoho! Whapwootledooder!

>>18527999
People shouldn't swear by this tool or its pretenses, but still, it's good because it helps people see their own writing. There's at least that.

> Hoby (Neon in Daylight) delivers an accomplished take on class and protests against racial injustice. “That was just what you did on weekends—brunch and protest,” Luca Lewis wryly narrates in 2027, looking back on his time interning at a New York City magazine as a naive 22-year-old in 2016–2017. He yearns to befriend fellow intern Zara McKing, an attractive Black woman, but feels ashamed of his whiteness and unsure of how to be an ally. Luca also becomes enamored with Paula Summers, an artist working at the magazine, and her indie filmmaker husband, Jason Frank, and spends the summer with the couple and their five kids in Maine as Paula and Jason fight over how to respond to racial injustice (in the city, Jason took the kids to protests; in Maine, Paula insists on carrying on traditions such as a Fourth of July parade). Toward the end of the summer, Luca learns of a tragedy involving Zara during a protest.

I want to write a parody of things like pic related. It would be pretty short, maybe like 40-50k words. Events in the story would be described in a way that highlights their absurdity but contrasts with the metropolitan liberal view of the protagonist, a young Ivy League educated journalist. I just started getting into Pynchon and Kafka and thought it might make a funny short story to post on here. Is this idea a train wreck waiting to happen?

>>18524258
It's funny, I can turn anything into words but have no ideas whatsoever

>>18527776
It's going to be web-published YA. The book's no good for traditional publishing because it's a bit too cartoony for adult fantasy but too vulgar for middlegrade. Plus I expect I can get more sustained interest and build a following if I publish in a serialized format

>>18528046
That sounds great. I think great satire MUST come from a voice of earnest grievance. Just sit at your computer and write about your frustrations with absurd people. Get to know your own feelings on the matter.

Kafka stories are really fun to write. I had written a story that was basically fueled by my paranoia about the overbearing response to covid, which was giving me serious patriot act vibes. Basically it was a satire about people's desire for safety, no matter how absurd or contradictory the narrative was, and about the bureaucratic opportunists wielding Kafka traps to exercise power with impunity.

How do you guys manage to write 400+ pages of a single novel? Not even your try-hard shit, but just your fantasy, mystery, YA.

>>18524353
Consistency 500 every day is impressive.


>>18527431
My June so far. I didn't write 10th, 11trh, 18th to the 20th, and just got home so I didn't write anything just yet.

>>18528548
I think right now mine is hovering over 1,090ish pages over a year period. I don't know if i can get a reliable answer though. It just comes down to writing daily, or at least every other day of the week. I've been undertaking almost pretty much a indefinite NaNoWrimo.

>>18528580
Is the 1090 page novel something you're going to send in for publishing at 1000+ pages single book, or do you have other plans for the final rendition?

>>18527431
2000 on week days with weekends being anything from a few hundred to a few thousand as that is post upload edit time for older chappers.

>>18528681
I have no plans on commercially publishing it but I am publishing it in a free capacity. As for what I'll do when the story finishes? No idea. I'll just lie down and simply die.

>>18526366

It made you look smart back then. Today, it makes it look like you don't know how to convey complicated concepts, or worse, like you don't actually understand them.

I started writing seriously recently after years of neglecting what I was always told was a natural talent. It has been one of the most humbling experiences of my life. Like the OP image says, translating ideas to words is one of the most difficult things I've ever done. I always scorned what I considered terrible writing, but now I realise even being able to finish a work is an achievement in itself. Even being able to put words on a page is an achievement. If any anons have advice on their writing processes I would receive it with a bowed head and open heart.

>>18527562
That sounds rad as hell. I am stealing your idea.

>>18529133
Too late. I've already stolen >>18527562
Idea and will complete a work soon. Continue paying child support for my wife's son, litards

I don't have much issue writing scenes when they're in my head, I just can't think of enough scenes; and it feels like I'm trying too hard to come up with scenes that doesn't feel "organic."

>>18526809
gundam rip-off, ngmi weeb.

>>18527431
Don't listen to the 500 weaklings. If focused, you can do 2k a night.

>>18528851
I second this. I was told again and again that I should consider writing as a career but I was good enough at math that I decided to focus on STEM. I hate the career path I’m on and want to make a serious attempt at writing. I’m 24, is it too late for me?

something I've noticed is that like ~70% of my book is straight up dialogue. I think its because I underdevelop moods/environments/character's thoughts. Its very utilitarian.

i'm writing just above ya trash, but any reading recommendations to fix this? Like is there a YA popular novel that isn't shit writing so I can refine my sentence structure. ty

>>18529314
Twain was 41 when his first book was published
Tolkien was 45
Stop looking for excuses. Either write or dont, but dont grasp for bullshit reasons why you never did.
t. Putting words to paper for the first time at 31

>>18529327
Twilight, Harry Potter, hunger games? Not exactly "good" writing depending on the height of your bar, but they are popular YA novels that have plenty of dialogue without being being too talky.

The only reason why readers read fiction is so they can be a writer one day. The only reason why writers write is to have readers one day. Vicious circle of vain pseuds.

>>18529327
Create a narrator. This is the way fiction was done for a very long time. It might work for you. What you are describing is something that doesn't sound like a problem, but it does sound like you are not happy with it. Assuming you aren't creating false expectations for yourself. A change in style might help, like creating a narrator.

Do you approach the craft as an emotion builder? As in, do you spend most of your effort on trying to create emotions in the reader? What emotions and why?

>>18529233
It might not be that your brain is insufficient, but that your process is inefficient. Maybe you aren't starting at the right place. Maybe you're writing ideas and characters that go nowhere because they don't have enough initiative.
>>18529353
https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/psychoanalysis-unplugged/202105/how-spot-projection-are-those-their-feelings-or-yours

>>18524258
>Where does your story take place?
Uhhhh... across a continent. Giant oddysey.
>Why?
Because the protagonists keep getting cucked out of the hard-to-obtain macguffins by the badguy.

>>18529416
kind of same. Have a slight mcguffin and a quest to get it, but set in the post-apocalypse with seemingly no antagonists, until the end

I used to be able to write short stories in the span of a weekend, I finished 30 stories in the span of a year, and they got 3.0 - 3.9 scores. Now I haven't finished a story in literally an entire year, and I feel like a complete fucking failure. How do I just COMPLETE something again?

>>18529474
Mine is a little different. Macguffin is essentially magical crystals that are scattered around the world. They just need one, but they're so buried in time that they need to rely on divinations and hearsay. Meanwhile, there's a constant antagonist taunting them and beating them to the punch.
What's with yours? Sounds interesting.

>>18529506
I like that idea a lot. I think you have something good friend. Whats the time crunch?

Isolated village survives the apocalypse, anyone who leaves it never returns. When forced to leave, a small group has to go blind into the world. they find nothing, only one singular corpse

>>18529552
Magical mind-plague with no cure that completely erases peoples' souls when they die. Antagonist wants to let everyone die and reshape the world to his liking and the protagonists want to cure it.

Ooh, interesting. What kind of apocalypse? Biblical? Nuclear?

The delusions that people will like and enjoy my work are coming back.
how do i make it stop

>>18529569
By liking and enjoying your work.

I have a 5th grade reading level and I want to get into writing and literature I haven't read alot since high school where should I start ever since I was a child I always wanted to write a book

>>18529406
>Do you approach the craft as an emotion builder?
At the moment I'm just trying to get the readers to understand my characters, like or dislike some of them and care about how they fair in the situations I put them in.

How to get over fear of criticism?

>>18528548
Pages is a dumb metric. You should only be judging by word count.

My latest novel is 109k/401 pages.

>>18524353
It's better than most and at the point it shouldn't weigh on your mind.

>>18529784
When you accept the fact that, realistically, you will never even receive any form of criticism, let alone any comments whatsoever, in the first place.

>>18529792
Plus, pages vary depending on font size, spacing between lines, pictures, tables, figures

Do you think characters are defined by their actions, their problems or their motivations?

>>18524258
Looking at https://self-publishingschool.com/book-writing-software-best/, kinda upset they didn't mention Emacs. I know authors who used it damn it, plus it's great for the autistic.
Besides that, the setting for my story is in a post-alien invasion world, where aliens came and corrupted everyone's genes for trans-humanism, meat and combat sports. So it's setting where everyone is just a body horror nightmare: jinn for instances are creatures that sustain on fire, and live by photosynthesis and fuel.

>>18529406
>https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/psychoanalysis-unplugged/202105/how-spot-projection-are-those-their-feelings-or-yours
Holy projection, Batman. Can I get some reddit gold now, fellow karmabros??!?!?!?

>>18529859
yes

>>18529406
yes. My focus is completely on the plot and the characters. Prose comes later. The whole reason I'm writing is because I want the readers and the characters be distraught at the awful things the characters need to do to survive

Have you guys published your book? DId anyone read it?

>>18529859
Their motivations give rise to their actions and their actions give rise to their problems.

>>18529885
no, problem comes first

problem > reason to act(motivation) > course of action

>>18529882
i got a few of my shitty stories in the /ffa/ books and i can confirm that at least 5 anons read at least two of those stories. in short, no.

>>18529859
Regardless of their problems, a character becomes a certain kind of person through their actions. Intentions and motivations are all well and good, but it's what they do what matters. Matters to others that is. Others characters in the story may not apprichate the protagonist's actions as much as a reader, who knows their intentions, might. All are obivously important, but actions speak louder than reasons in the eyes of others.

>>18529902
but it was the must fun i've had in a long fucking while

>>18529901
This, a person's problem may be caused by the actions of another, not necessarily their own. And, it's logical to assume that a character's reason for acting would be a response to a problem or obstacle they need to overcome.

>>18529865
Are you saying he isn't projecting? If you aren't, then you're complaining about the way I said it. Therefore Idgaf and don't reply, I won't read more than enough to discern between the two

>>18529901
This depends on if you want a reactive or proactive character.

A reactive character has something bad done to them which causes them to react.

A proactive character wants something, screws up, and causes a problem. They later on discover that what they wanted is not what they needed.

>>18529859
stories are first and foremost defined by their conflict

character action and motivation are the product of their perceived problems

>>18529951
no, a character wanting something implies there is something they lack. lacking something is a problem in itself

>>18529882
I guess

>>18529842
thats not fren talk

>>18530105
I'm speaking from experience, of course...

>>18524258
>>Where does your story take place?
The city of Eldres of the aelmen prefectures.
>>Why?
The prefectures are situated on a land bridge between the northern and southern continents making them the perfect place to offload slaves.

Anyone writing on a Friday night?

>>18530455
wassup

>>18530455
It's Saturday evening here anon. I've been sick the past couple of days, coming right now but I haven't been productive. Trying to get some work done before the week is up.

>>18529902
> /ffa/ books
the what now?

>>18530455
Ended up not writing today, though I should've since the chapter isn't complete yet and I'm running past deadline starting today. Treated myself to some BF4 instead. Now sleep for morning wagie.

>>18530493
the flash fiction anthology threads (RIP)

>>18524954
It's not really inefficient as much as it is acting against its own interest. I'm not a HOLY SHIT AMAZING BRO writer, but when I do write a passage that I feel is particularly good prose, it feels more like I've stumbled on it more than created it consciously. It's just something that happens mostly on its own. Whenever I'm focusing too hard on making it great, it becomes shit.

I'm thinking about testing something out. Imagine a book form of the gay musical from The IT Crowd. I'm going to write the first twenty pages of that and then query it under a fake persona, just to see how many agents will bite. It will be absolute garbage but filled with agent-pleasing faggotry.

>>18530570
any relation or overlap with the /sffg/ threads?

I'm writing a road trip-like story where the main characters explore a far-future post-apocalyptic world. It's more about the weird people and situations they encounter, and the protagonist remains largely the same the whole way. She has clear views on things and I want to keep it kind of ambiguous whether she's really good or evil.

But now I'm starting to worry readers will just think she's boring or even unlikable for not being more open and relatable, emotional and frightened, not being "human" enough. Is the concept just doomed from the get-go?

>>18531025
nope

>>18531068
>Is the concept just doomed from the get-go?
yes, not because of the flat arc protag but because it is a >road trip-like story where the main characters explore a far-future post-apocalyptic world

ffs, at this point its eyeroll inducing

>>18531073
Sad, very sad! and RIP

>>18531079
Roll your eyeballs and tell why that's bad. I kept the description vague, and it's probably not the kind of a story you think it is.

Okay, I have written 1,488 words of an extremely gay shitpost. Now it's time to see if any agents take to it.

>>18524258
On my third draft of my TV pilot, everything is coming together so well.
Keep writing. First drafts are meant to put your ideas down the next are to really pin point everything. Just write it out, it's pure fucking pain.

http://www.pandemoniuminc.com/
If you're having trouble with your story.TS3 midpoints was probably the biggest helper for me.

>>18531116
>I kept the description vague
so dont be surprised all we can provide are vague answers

>it's probably not the kind of a story you think it is.
and I have no reason to care or believe that. we can only go of the little you said

do you really expect people to just go along trusting you have some totally awesome secret ideas? and if so, then what? its impossible to assess and provide useful feedback on something we know literally nothing about

just stop procrastinating and get to writing, when the time comes to seek out feedback make sure you show something of actual substance

>>18531225
I asked you why you think post-apocalyptic road trips are bad. I'm not even looking for an argument, seriously asking. Don't start sperging now, that other stuff doesn't matter.

>>18524339
>sensitivity of the senses
Pretty good overall though except for the commas, chop most of them out and it’s pretty nice.

>>18531256
its like me telling you I'm making a story in a medieval setting about a knight who remains largely the same on his journey to slay dragon.
is it theoretically possible to make a quality engaging story with this premise? of course, but don't tell me you wouldn't automatically dismiss it if that was the one thing I chose to tell you about my story when asking for feedback.

>>18531306
>a story in a medieval setting about a knight who remains largely the same on his journey to slay dragon
What's inherently wrong with that? But that's not exactly what you said before. You said, before the character, the problem was
>road trip-like story where the main characters explore a far-future post-apocalyptic world
I took this to mean you've read a lot of this type of books. Then what do you think is common in this premise, to the point of becoming unbearable?

Does anyone have weird spikes and depressions in attention and drive when writing? I can’t write a lot of prose unless I’m drunk or feeling the groove of the story. Poetry is easier but then again I normally don’t write poems longer than 500 words (although I’ve managed it before).

>>18529989
You happy with RR/whatever that is? I never got the appeal but I’m sure it works for you.

>>18524258
I can write but I can't write a coherent plot
Pls help!

>>18531351
Most stories can follow a shape that computers can understand, as researched by my university. Here’s a fun speech that shows that:
https://youtu.be/GOGru_4z1Vc

Here’s the article:
https://rdcu.be/cnfH4

Just pick a shape or common plot and run with it. They’re not copyrighted.

>>18531402
>>18531190
speaking of these technical story models and shit, i stumbled upon this while looking for lolita analyses
https://dramatica.com/
thoughts?

>>18531421
I like their summary of plot as decisions and action. That is essentially the “stuff” of stories.

>>18531348
>You happy with RR/whatever that is? I never got the appeal but I’m sure it works for you.
Makes me depressed I never got as luck in even my own genre in view/follower count but I'm happy I get noticed regardless

>>18525545
You can do it yourself without fully rereading them. Just jump to events that have stuck in your mind, and study the passages which conveyed those events to you, such as Ned’s death. If you liked one character, just jump to all the chapters featuring that character and skim through, focusing on their dialogue and actions.

>>18526657
>if you're also editing at the same time you're writing.
DON’T do this. Not for the sake of writing more words per day, but because you should be in a different mindset when you’re shitting words and ideas onto a paper, and when you’re writing. It’ll make you more efficient and better at both skills, faster.

>>18529989
>>18531673
>300k words
Is that normal for your genre? I’m sure you get readers for the first instalment but it probably drops off because your story is way too long and universe too big. Have you tried maybe restricting what you write but having a lot of lore on a website or something? You can still write 1000 pages worth but only have a quarter of that as an actual story. I’m just trying to suggest ways of making it easier for would-be readers to get into your world.

How does someone who is a no name actually get published? Do you have to win some awards or post your writing on a website and hope to be scouted? I head submitting directly to a publisher doesn't work but maybe I'm misinformed.

I'm not saying I have a manuscript ready for publication just that I am curious and I think it's a hope of mine.

>>18531855
You have to have relatives who work in the industry on top of winning amateur competitions starting when you're still in school

>>18527999
Just pasted in a sample sentence from an old essay and got "Post-Graduate" readability. That can't be good.

>>18531321
He’s saying the premise/synopsis matters so little to any story that it’s pointless to give feedback about it. If you want feedback, give us something substantive which can actually be commented upon.
Just like medieval classic fantasy, a post-apoc road trip can either work or not work, it’s entirely up to the execution, and that involves the other ideas which are focused upon within that surface-level framework.

>>18531402
Based

>>18531880
>He’s saying the premise/synopsis matters so little to any story
No? Again, he said the opposite in the first post. Why the backpedaling? I'm not even blaming him for anything, I thought there could be good points there.

To begin with, I wasn't asking opinions about the premise, but about how important it is for the protagonist to be relatable. Would you be able to read a story with a protagonist who's very different from you? The setting is a secondary concern.
Honestly, does nobody here speak English?

>>18531966
Esl general

>>18531966
I go land you slap

>>18531610
It's a good way of looking at it. I read one of the books in the OP and while I fucking detested it overall, it had a similar outlook. People often conflate plot and story, but I do think it's an important distinction. The way I see it lately is that, like you say, plot is the events that happen in the course of the story. They have a relationship to the story, and might even be considered a component of the story, but the story itself is the plot married to the humanity. Not just the characters, which constitute their own category, but the humanity OF those characters.

>>18532053
>Humanity of characters
I agree. I tried to explain to this braindead woman what Star Trek had going for it, which was that it usually has a humanising aspect or something that reminds us what being human is about. She took it literally as though all the aliens were of the human species. But I suppose I should have described it like you, that stories are centred in, or revolve around, the humanity of how characters react to situations and circumstances.

>>18526869
Not it's 109 thousand. It's gotten to the point where I spend more time deleting or rearranging old text than producing new material.

I find it so hard to come up with ideas for stories. Once I’ve got one, I’m off to the races but origination of something that feels like it could possibly be a winner is the hardest part. Maybe I need to just let go, pour stuff out, let it take on a life of its own, and then see if it’s a winner? I don’t know.

>>18531855
In the past, there was a robust short story industry so people would make some money and build a name for themselves writing short stories, and sometimes poetry. Once they built up a bit of credibility they’d get published. I suppose it’s a double edged sword now because while on one hand, that short story opportunity doesn’t really exist anymore, you can skip all of that on your own by publishing online or self publishing what you always wanted to in the first place on the other hand.

>>18532426
Beyond that, short stories are still a fairly rigorous way of learning how to write complete works of fiction on a smaller scale.

>>18531402
this. It will feel cheap and forced at first, but the further you get into to it, the more the story will shape itself. You can do this with music, too. Take someone's chord progression, shift it all off by a beat, slow it down, pluck instead of strum, etc. Keep fucking around until you've found something. By the time you're finished nobody will know what you were basing it off of.

>>18532336
you said that was your last post, asshole.

My hands were trembling as I delivered my speech in front of the class. The two girls who sat in front listened attentively with their eyes fixed on me, as though they were enthralled by my awkward posture and misreading of Epicurean philosophy. I was always quiet, so it did not come as a surprise that my speech would draw much attention. While most listened, a few at the back sniggered at me as I spoke. Nothing exasperated me more than those that laughed at who they didn’t know. I briefly glared at the pack and then continued,‘ If human beings live life to only maximize pleasure, are they no different than animals? My point is that erm... Epicureanism is not a sufficient enough reason to live.

I'm new to writing. Any criticism would be much appreciated

>>18530790
I've had similar ideas to this but I feel like they would just enrage me. I don't think I'll ever get published but I need the illusion of that possibility to get myself to write.

>>18531966
>No?
pic
Not involved but you really should not be having so much trouble understanding them. You might think feigning a lack of understanding floofs up your intellectuality and epicly downvotes the other guy, but it honestly just makes any who do it stand out as immature, not having learned of other ways to conduct discussion. Seems to be the case here. Don't reply, too embarrassing.

>>18531833
In tradpub standards I believe 80-100k is acceptable for the genre, and hovering over 120k is usually the hard cutoff point for a agent to reluctantly look at. But I have a story to tell and don't care about publisher mandate limitations. Most of that is a story with about 3-5k actually lore so I'd have to pull it all down which wouldn't be good for my readers. I appreciate the concern, though

>>18531833
>doesn't know the standards for web novel trash
>gives advice
more words are better as a near de-facto rule

What makes a plot memorable?

For example I just remembered what happened to Birdperson in the S2 finale of Rick and Morty and how I was waiting to see how it continues in S3 and thinking about it for years, but there have been three more seasons since then and I think I remember Birdperson being in them, but I can't for the life of me remember what the fuck actually happened after. Very impactful and memorable twist whose resolution kept me pumped for a continuation, yet it was so bland and forgettable that I don't even know if it happened, while I almost know the 6 year old S2 finale by heart.

>>18532955
You don't vividly recall the apples on the apple tree because you expected apples to be there and they weren't. You do vividly recall pears on the apple tree.

My sibling’s been pressuring me to get a college education for my writing, “just in case I’m missing something on a professional level”.
Genuinely asking you guys, is college a scam, at least for a writing major? And if so or if not, does it heavily affect the publishing process?

>>18532955 (checked)
You don't vividly recall the apples on the apple tree because you expected apples to be there and they were. You do vividly recall pears on the apple tree because you were expecting apples but found pears.

>>18533015
How's it feel being the dumb sibling

>>18533015
Seeing how you don't even know how quotation marks work in conjunction with punctuation, it might be worth a shot.

>>18532733
>you really should not be having so much trouble understanding them
I understand him (you?) just fine. What I don't understand is why you act like a cornered animal when asked a simple question? I'm not angry or insulting you, or anything, I was legitimately interested in your opinion. What scares you so much about answering honestly? It's baffling

>>18533127
I've heard several people in real life say that college degrees are overrated, experience is better, get a vocational education, go to trade school, do an apprenticeship, make $300k starting any blue trade job you want ... but the funny thing is, all of them were white collar workers with at minimum a bachelor's degree, most with additional professional school.

>>18533135
Not them, wasn't involved.
I get why you were so interested in his take on post apoc, but the point afterwards was that he wasn't talking so much about post apoc as he was about inquiries into vagueries. You were meandering on that point so forcefully that, honestly, I'm kinda impressed with how they both subverted and ignored you, subtly making fun of you. That's a rare sight on 4chan these days, so they're chads. Anyway, I don't think the anon who started this has grand opinions on post apoc fiction, as the other anon pointed out, so I suggest giving up on it.

>>18532955
based dubs of bait

>>18533197
You could even say that he had based wubba lubba dub dubs

>>18533015
I found college to be slightly counterproductive to writing personally but I didn’t major in English literature. I only took a lot of electives in it.

>>18532495
They are but the difficult part is knowing if they’re even any good and getting published. It’s almost as difficult to get someone to publish a short story these days as it is to publish a novel. Knowing that, why wouldn’t you just go for the novel if that’s what you really want?

>>18533234
Nowadays, people get book deals entirely on the basis on their number of fans or YouTube followers, like that girl from Japanese Breakfast and her new book Crying in H Mart. It may be easier to get famous for something, then wait for a publisher to approach about a ghostwritten book deal

>>18533270
womp womp
> On June 7, 2021, it was announced that Crying in H Mart: A Memoir would be getting a feature film adaptation at Orion Pictures. Zauner will adapt the film and provide the film's soundtrack (as Japanese Breakfast).

>>18533270
This is how they kill all beauty and honesty in art

>>18533015
College is buttfuck useless if you want to be a novelist. At best, it will teach you some grammar techniques that you could already do but just didn't know the name of.

However, don't buy into the hype that English degrees are useless in general. They're useful with networking. I only just now got my AA degree and I'm on my fourth semester as a paid English tutor. Going to be an editor after my BA. It depends on what you want to do with writing.

It's impossible...

>>18533234
>They are but the difficult part is knowing if they’re even any good and getting published
Do the work without expectation of results, my man. I write my short stories to the highest standard I am able, I submit them for review, edit them, and then toss them out. When I have made something good enough to keep, it will be because I have focused on the craft of writing in and of itself.

>>18533588
Nothing is impossible, anon. Just stop trying so hard, and things will fall into place by themselves.

>>18533607
Well, my point is some work is just unnecessary. There is little benefit to cutting your teeth on short stories now so if you don’t want to write short stories, why should you? You should do work you want to do without expecting results.

Fuck my dreams. I'll never be a world renowned esl author like nabokov. Screw it. I gonna write for money. I'll be a sellout. Litrpg here i come.

>>18533665
Dear Anon,

This is perhaps the most based take I have read here in the last month. You seem like a wise and educated young man, and you are surely on the right path in life. May the gods bless you and your kin.

Best regards,
Anon

PS: Not him.

>>18524258
Why yes the music I listen to does influence my writing style immensely, thus making my work totally incoherent, how could you tell?

>>18533749
>listing to music while writing
I'm sorry anon, but you're ngmi

>>18533762
lol

>>18533665
>There is little benefit to cutting your teeth on short stories now... why should you?
You get the experience of creating pieces of fiction on a much more manageable scale. Granted, it's not directly analogous to writing novels at all, but you still get a taste for resolving some problems that do scale. First and foremost you hone the quality of your prose. In a short story every sentence needs to earn its keep. This is a good mentality for a writer to be in. Second, it paves the way for what I think is a fantastic way to come at writing chapters, namely the approach where every chapter is at once a component of the whole as well as a miniaturized, scene by scene story that can stand more or less on its own. This helps with that mid-novel sag which a lot of people struggle with. My point is that there is actual value to working on short stories even if you aspire to writing a novel. You get to create a world from start to finish, and you get to start learning how to do both. By the time you've written enough short stories, you have developed an intuitive sense and feel for story structure. It's categorically not worthless. Unnecessary, maybe, but not worthless.

>>18533749
Is that Spotemgottem?

That nigga has been on my mind. No cap, I been thinking about that time when I barebacked him raw in a Boca Raton Air BnB. That shit had to be the tightest, blackest, wettest boy pussy I've ever laid pipe into. I swear to God, the most heavenly high is gargling that wonderboy's nuts while going fist deep into his shitter. I had Spotemgottem screaming in the sheets with head too ridiculous to ignore. That nigga frotted my cock until he busted on my mouth, I had to return the favor. That nigga Spotemgottem and I been fucking non-stop ever since, but keep that shit on the DL. He does that shit for free. If you're gonna ask me how to "long" Spotemgottem, I'll be deadass. All you gotta do is ask, be straight up, and get physical real quick. Touch his nuts, get on ya knees, talk your shit. He doesn't play around with no pansy-ass niggas either. He likes his men manly, and his dick thick. Dark skin, 6'5 is the minimum and I ain't talking about height boy.

That nigga Spotemgottem stole my heart and drank my seed.

>>18533522
College won't teach you anything about writing but you'll gain experiences that you can write about

>>18533015
You can try some community college classes see if it's something you want to pursue

>>18531855
Honestly anon, you just gotta submit it to agents. Going straight to editors/publishers is generally a bad idea and won't get you far because the good ones only look at things submitted by an agent. You could do short stories to make a bit a name beforehand but it won't actually make much a difference to whether an agent takes on your novel. /wg/ isn't the best place for trad publishing talk though, most people here don't know what they're on about.

>>18533947

>>18533941
Well said point, eloquent and a little beautiful.

>>18531068
Literally Kino's Journey.

Every time I read something interesting I get the urge to weave it into my book, imagining some scholar adding footnotes to explain all of my references a hundred years from now after carefully researching my life and influences and closely reading for even the most subtle allusions
In reality it probably just seems like jarring nonsensical dogshit

Give it to me straight bros, has publishing become harder for straight white males?

"It sharpens the mind," he said.

We entered the elevator, and John let the guns rest on a metal railing in the interior. I glanced at them, "What's that for?"

He hit the button.

The elevator ascended. John's face was inscrutable, which should have been concerning given that I still didn't know what I was doing in there, but the slow, sporadic humming the elevator let out gave me a sense of ease. Finally, the doors opened and he stepped out. He left the guns in there and I followed his lead, keeping my head down and staring at the cracks on the white marble floor.

The first thing I noticed was the dried-out brown spots. The more there were, the more something seemed to tug at the back of my mind as if to keep me alert, and yet, I couldn't understand why I felt that way. There was no danger.

The second was the various plant pots that littered the place and made it seem less old than it probably was. Seeing how lush the plants were, I supposed they were well cared for, despite the general state of the building. I guessed we were in some sort of hospital, perhaps an asylum, and the janitor manifestly didn't come to clean very often.

My fingers fumbled inside of my pockets, looking for something that wasn't there.

"I believe we've arrived," he told me, leading me in front of a wide room full of wood furniture and a single bed sitting in the corner. What threw me was how the walls were devoid of decorations. I expected a patient room to be less depressing. I couldn't imagine what it felt like to be a patient here. Locked, waiting for the symptoms to alleviate, as you stared at nothing but white walls and oak shelves.

"So? What do we do, now?" I asked.

He pointed at one side of the room. There was a shelf a bit smaller than the others here. "I believe I lost something there. Can you retrieve it?"

I hesitantly walked inside of the room, sometimes looking over my shoulder. John was smiling as he looked at my back. I stopped in front of the shelf, which was quite plain, except for the ornate drawer on top of it.

To tell the truth, I wasn't sure why I was standing there at this very moment, and the closer I got to the shelf, the bigger the buzzing was in the back of my mind. "What are you waiting for?" he called out. I froze like a deer in the headlights, realizing it was indeed unlike me to be so worried about trivial matters, and put my hand on the handle.

I opened the drawer, and there was nothing inside. The buzzing intensified, congregating into a headache. A dreadful thought creeped out from the insides of my head--- I had missed something. Something that didn't make sense and should have put me off immediately. It finally came to form. When did the drawer appear---

I was never supposed to enter the room, not alone.

My shoulders trembled as I slowly turned to face the entrance.

John was gone and the door was closed.

Trying out a new style there, what do you guys think about this excerpt? Is it readable?

>>18524339
Literally everything wrong with/wg/ but you're in good company here

Has getting in better shape helped you guys write?

>>18534751
It's the same for me. I literally have hundreds of notes and screenshots of small excerpts from things I've read or wrote myself. I guess that's how you begin to write an 'original work', by weaving together nonsensical but entertaining thoughts originally disconnected from each other.

Posted this in another thread but here it is and tweaked it a bit.
Bros I bought a guitar and idk how to play but I wrote a poem in hopes I could make this a song. There is more but can you rate. When I originally wrote this I thought I was a genius but now I think, looks like a 14 year old just got cheated on. Any critique would help, I'm new but not a pussy


Forked flesh lies behind your grinning teeth,
Soft skin hides the scales buried underneath.

Your tongue only spoke in vain ,
but I've never had sympathy for Cain,
and I won't hear again how I caused your betrayal,
all I do now is blame myself for thinking you'd never be able.

>tfw get home after wagie and put down 1.6k words over a few hours
yeah I'm thinking we gonna make it bros.

>>18535264
>not having a job at which you can write
Unless you are a high school dropout, there is no excuse for not having a comfier job.

>>18535268
I graduated high school and there's simply no good jobs around.

>>18524339
I'd rewrite it like this but up to you

>He thought he was better than everyone else but his penis was average. Walking was one of his better ideas. His legs looked like shit because of his life style and the doctor told him that.

>>18535290
What do you do? Fast food?

Become a security guard at the very least. Even without this hiring crisis right now, security guard agencies hire anyone who walks through their doors.

I've got an expended distribution sale for the first time! And it was 2 sales. That means that my book was in a real life bookshop? A school bought my book?

>>18535337
do you have to be tall, fit, or at least intimidating-looking to be a security guard, or is it really anyone

>>18535512
I am basically Senpai from Nagatoro and I got hired on the spot for two different guard companies. Granted, it is a bit of a gamble. For my first location, I sat in a DMV lobby and used my laptop all night. For my second location, I got stuck in a car dealership parking lot with nightwalkers lurking about. I quit and now have another cushy job that I got through the college.

Anyone here written a nonfiction book? I want to write one, but I'm not sure where to start. It would be probably politics or history related, maybe reinterpretation of a historical event. Anyone have sources that can help?

>>18532523
Anon a pasta is a pasta, don't take it so literally

How do I even begin to structure the outline of an epic with a grand conflict between factions with POV switches? Theres so many things that must be juggled it feels overwhelming and hard to focus.

Jesus christ /wg/, the summary of my final battle alone is almost 1.5k words. Just the summary

>>18535777
How long is the rest of the piece? I don’t think that’s bad as long as you write a final battle across a chapter or two. Just don’t infodump, try to remain immersive

>>18535810
it's going to be about 180-200k in total. a bit of a doorstopper but I needed it to be to get everything in

>>18535748
Start with one faction, then a second, then however many more, then merge the lives you've created.

>>18535748
read the illiad

>>18535748
>epic
You should have read Epic of Gilgamesh, Homer, Ovid, Virgil, Beowulf, Dante, Spenser, Ariosto, Camoes, Zukofsky, Orson, and Pound, then and only then you may begin an epic of your own. Throw in Joyce’s Ulysses for good measure, it’s one of the best epics ever in 20th century novel form. If you meant “epic” in a wishy washy Star Wars or GoT way then I don’t know, maybe copy their style and form (e.g. shitty Hero’s Journey and TV tier Character-Based Chapters).

>>18535827
That’s fine, as long as you know how to keep the reader’s attention. Infinite Jest for one sucked balls a quarter of the way through with its turgid, dull writing.

Is yours closer to fantasy? I think it’s easy to section off a doorstopper into smaller novels like LOTR did, but that’s up to you. A battle is a good way to end a novel and you can pick up from there with the sequel.

>>18536067
yeah, it's fantasy. I can't section it off unfortunately because I'm already planning it to be the first book in a series, but serialized web publication should make it more manageable and engaging

Is it pathetic to think that as a first time writer that I could write the next Dune. Does anyone here respect Frank Herbert like I do? Should I feed the ambition or aim for less?

>>18536147
Herbert's early stuff is a real mixed bag, the man himself couldn't have written Dune without going through that phase of his career.

>>18536147
You can't write the next Dune by writing a novel like Dune. It had the novelty factor going for it. You need to innovate.

>>18536147
dream big bro. but try to do your own thing.

>>18534952
Wdym

Thoughts on the love interest in my novel??

>>18536275
can you rate my response >>18535335

>>18524339
Overwritten, not in a purple prose sort of way but nearly half of the words here add nothing to the passage. Trim it down and it would be fine, good even.

>>18536282
6/10

>>18536292
why 6/10 :(

>>18536283
Thanks for the feedback anon.

>>18536277
I thought you said already said that you don't care what people think about her and you're going to force her into the plot anyway
>>18523603

>>18536296
Needs more backstory

>>18536302
His penis was average but he never bothered to check. The same could be said for his thoughts. At night he either jerked off to women getting degraded or when a girl his freshmen year tugged on his dick. That mental imagine had been playing in his head since high school. That same girl also ended up getting her mouth peed in so he pretends he's happy he never lost his virginity to her.

rate this please

>>18536314
not that guy but i give it 3/10.

>>18536323
what am i missing

>>18536330
tense errors
> penis was average
> he jerked off
> he pretends he's happy

gerund errors
> His penis was average but he never bothered to check. The same could be said for his thoughts.
he never bothered to check his thoughts?

spelling errors
> mental imagine

overall low effort

>>18536345
i felt it added charm

>>18536314
Are you the insufferably boring person who wrote about an average guy who did average things averagely?

I finished writing my resume bros. Tomorrow I'm going to start on my cover letter. When I finish that, I'll start ............... looking for a job

>>18536407
When writing what you know goes wrong. Click HERE now for your chance to win a free iPhone 5!!!

>>18536434
You’re deflecting with irony because you hate yourself. You know that your writing is shit and should never see the light of day.

>>18536415
oh wait, shit, I can apply for jobs without a cover letter. I just applied for a job on Indeed. Maybe soon I'll become a wagie and leave /wg/ forever

>>18536458
Good on you, anon. Writing doesn’t pay and it only makes you hate yourself more than usual. Australia fucking sucks for jobs at the moment, but I got some contract work on the weekend. Boss is happy with what I’ve done and only got tomorrow to finish it. :) working is great and actually forces me to want to read after so much tedious labour and tasks. Writing makes me want to never read ever again.

I've taken to writing my notebooks in unconventional ways. I find that it forces me to write more intentionally. Moreover, I assume that nobody out there would be able to read them without putting in a huge amount of effort. Has anyone else tried doing so?
One is written in phonetic English using written characters from the elder futhark. This one is my dream journal.
Another is written with correct spelling, but with a set of written characters that are original. It's a mix of a number of things -- home remedies, poems, musings, aphorisms, etc.
Another is written in a Caesar cipher which shifts up 1 letter per page in a normal English set of written characters. It's a series of notes on ancient poetic meters from different cultures.
Each of my notebooks is a small black journal. They have a kind of "spellbook" feeling to them; I've been enjoying the activity very much.

>>18536470
I wanted to work last year, but I was/am still so fucking scared of covid. But I need to get over it and rejoin the world. I just applied to a second job without a cover letter. This was a rush.

A few years ago, I joined a irl book club to force myself to read, otherwise I'd probably read almost nothing. 99% of the books suck bad but that's normie life

>>18536482
Oh well. As long as you socialise in the book club and get along with people you work with. :)

The fear of COVID isn’t unfounded. It might mutate into something even worse soon.

>>18536442
>You’re deflecting with irony because you hate yourself
You're not entirely wrong, but I'm not the guy you were originally talking with.

>>18536407
No I was just mocking what that guy wrote as a light joke to reword it in a 4chan esque way

Then you got very defensive and took me as someone else and then lashed out at another anon and projected.
You kinda sound like this guy
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9E62iA6KCIQ

Relax friend, if you're the guy who I responded to I thought your writing was good but idk I dont read much

>>18536679
>I don’t read much
>Posts le Jew
>”bro you’re defensive and projecting-uhhh”

>>18536679
that guy always cracks me up lmao
why is he so angry?

Tell, don't show.

>>18536830
Show, don't tell.

>>18536830
Don't tell Cho, please.

>>18524258
Is shooting with one hand behind your back retarded or is it actually viable?

One of my characters is a dainty elegant warrior princess with a white colour motif to her outfits and equipment

Finished up my daily page just now. Only two and a half hours tonight! I'm getting a little worried that the completed manuscript is going to come up short on word count, but there is some stuff I'm planning on writing later and sprinkling throughout so I'm doing my best to just let it all come out and deal with it in the rewrite/postwrite. It's just hard because since I'm handwriting, I really won't know the actual word count until I've finished and typed it all up. It'd be easier to estimate if I wrote on lined paper but I can't stand being presented with anything but a blank page for creative writing. Sometimes my page for the day is 900+ words of tiny little chicken scratch on 8.5 x 11 printer paper, sometimes it's more like 400 if it's mostly dialogue. Anyway, I hope you guys are making good progress. We're all gonna make it.

>>18524258
Would anyone care if I used ww1 era pistols AND ww2 era pistols in the same time frame? My story is set in a dieselpunk scifi/fantasy world where a war resembling our ww1 rages on and leaves our teenage heroes psychologically scarred

>>18537110
Holding a gun with one hand is not viable at all, it's nonsense.

>>18537146
If you're carrying something else in your other hand, sure it is. Say you're dragging a downed buddy into cover, it's much harder to handle a rifle in that situation than it is a pistol. Those are all likely officers, and military doctrine was much different back then. Officers were (and still are, to a degree) to take the firing of their own weapons as a failure of their leadership, in that an officer who's firing is an officer who isn't leading.

>>18537146
Maybe in actual combat, it's almost always better to shoot two handed given the opportunity.

But why do people shoot one handed in shooting competitions?
https://youtu.be/YvCfVkKZiO0

>>18537208
You can use the structure of your body to provide a more stable firing platform by locking out your elbow, which leads to greater accuracy. The only reason they can do this in competition is because accuracy is all they care about and they fire .22's, which have next to no recoil. For self defense shooting, you will want to use two hands as much as possible because there is much more recoil for you to deal with, which makes followup shots much more difficult. When someone is coming at you with the intent of harming you, you want as many rounds on target in as little time as is possible. This is almost impossible when you're firing an actual duty cartridge.

>>18530790
You can't query partial manuscripts, unless its non-fiction or you are already a well established author. Also gay fiction exists, it doesn't sell very well and is hard to publish.

>>18537263
Yeah, most gay fiction is published through small presses or is self-published. Agents tend to be very hostile towards it, they want you to make sure it has a "broad appeal" meaning less gay.

>>18536746
At a certain point man you just gotta take the loss. It's making you look worse and worse.

>>18536764
He actually does an interview and defends it a bit, pretty wild but pretty fucking funny

>>18535689
Google "writing a nonfiction book" what is your subject? I've done a nonfiction blog if that meets your standard.

>>18524258
sup
imma using scrivener to write it's very good
any other software like this ?

>>18524258
any convenient tool for writing dialogs between people ? or do i have to manually colour each line of text :(

Critique please, it’s a first sentence.
>I’m going to bring a gun to my next psychiatric appointment to thank my doctor for “healing” me; he’s going to see what his medicine has done to me; I’ll be unrecognisable from when I first began.

>>18537448
>he has scrivener
>wants another word processor
The point of scrivener is that it’s one of the most tailored programs for writers…

>>18537602
Yeah, speech marks anon.

>>18533947
Holy shit gold.

>>18537628
>The point of scrivener is that it’s one of the most tailored programs for writers…
are you implying that other programs can't compete ?
there is soft that helps me make diagrams and i use free DIA-diagrams not some overpriced shit
same thing goes for obsydian
just cause something is "most tailored" doesn't mean it's good for ME
besides why NOT try alternatives ?

>>18534682
Kino’s Journey is a good example to compare this to. I don’t think it’s post-apocalyptic, but the vibe seems similar. More importantly, KJ has a very clear focus to its ideas: every episode is a different “country” (read:micronation) so each episode/chapter is essentially a self-contained short story exploring different forms by which societies can organize themselves, told from the perspective of an outsider who is just passing through.
That’s the kind of slant to the premise that I would like the anon to specify. Kino’s Journey is not pitched by just saying “wanderer travels aimlessly running into different scenarios across the world.”

>>18537644
>Scrivener is good
>But it’s not for me!

>>18534751
Either cut it out (as you’re already aware) or lean FULLY into it and make your novel into an avante-garde novelty.

>>18534897
Nobody here is published.

>>18537674
I have several acceptances. You just gotta look for the literary magazines for you, anon. :)

>>18535748
It seems like it’s best to not systematize the perspective splits. Ride the wave of whatever is imminently important instead.
So don’t strictly jump between the two sides each and every chapter, that makes it seem too innatural.

>>18537663
eat shit faggot i am not complaining i want to try new things
it's like your mom: she's riding BBC but it's a new one each day
it's still BBC but little different

>>18537736
Lol, I wonder who is behind this post.

>>18537743
and i would have gotten away with this if not for you meddling Anon

>>18537660
Good catch, Kino's journey actually makes for a great precedent, the way it gives societal critique and reflects on human nature through the places the main character visits and the people she meets. That's very close to what I was going for. Thanks for reminding me, I forgot about it completely.

>>18537110
Federal agencies with uniformed guys that take shooting seriously make everyone practice shooting one-handed in case the other hand is being used to drag someone or it just gets badly injured. It will never be *as* viable, but there are people who get very good at it.
My boomer father took me shooting a few years ago and spent the entire time doing just barely better than me, mostly giving me tips and being encouraging and claiming he was "a little bit rusty" after being retired for several years. Then on his last mag he doubled the distance of the target, put one hand behind his back just like your pic, and landed ten in the center of the head in about six seconds because he's a cheeky old bastard.

FUCKING HELP ME

This what I'm working with

>Neon lights made a major comeback as the off-Earth mining industry took off

I don't like saying "took off" at the end because it sounds bad, I sad "off-world" just before. So what are synonyms for "took off" in this context? I'm fucking retarded and can't think.

>>18538130
Bloomed?

>>18538160
thanks. For now I have

>as the off-Earth mining industry went bull,

but I'll write "bloom?" in the margins. We'll see how I'm feeling next edit. Maybe I'll come up with something better.

>>18537263
I think you're the one with a lack of knowledge on querying. Nearly all agents ask you to submit 5 pages in the body of an email before sending your manuscript. That's all what I'm trying to do, see if they ask for the manuscript based on this faggoty nonsense that I send, then ghost them.

>>18538179
>went bull
What in the goddamn

>>18538186
Bull and bear markets. It flowed better that way.

>>18538219
Oooh I get it.

>>18538183
>Nearly all agents ask you to submit 5 pages in the body of an email
Wow, that's fucking stupid

>>18538366
It's comfy to read on Microsoft Outlook

>>18538366
Literary agents get 1000s of submissions per year.

>>18539134
That's not the reason. They don't want to open attachments in case some scorned author wants to give them a virus.

>>18537439
>what is your subject?

U.S. foreign policy in Latin America.

What are some comfy small publishing houses that do nonfiction and accept unsolicited manuscript submissions?

>>18539864
>>18539864
>>18539864
>>18539864
>>18539864
>>18539864

>>18539349
whoa you don't say sherlock