/lit/ - Literature

Completely stupid and incorrect thesis, embarrassing actually. Neocon subhumans tried to assert their dominance over other countries and cultures but ultimately we never had a “clash of civilizations,” we have a homogenizing Liberalism that is consuming everything under the name of diversity. Even Muslims are slowly liberalizing although they resisted it the most at first. You just can’t stop Western liberal hegemony, it will melt everything

>>18521206
Never read it but it's what NPCs point to to discredit Marxism so I presume it's trite and wrong.

Liberals seethe because he was right.
The rise of an Eurasian alliance between China and Russia, coupled with a détente with rising India will make the latent tensions described by Huntington visible for everyone. The only reason the "clash" hasn't taken relevant proportions is that non-Europeans are still harnessing adequate power.
If firsties actually knew the minds of Chinese, Russians, Indians and Moslems (these are doomed to irrelevance, however) they would see that they only pay lip-service to liberal values (when they do) and are willing to throw everything out of the window when it's not useful anymore.
The dams will open eventually and there will be a flood.

>>18521206
I'll admit I haven't read the book, but from what I understand, he argues that, with the end of the Cold War, geopolitical conflicts will be organized along "civilizational" rather than economic lines, right? Well he's obviously wrong since if you take any major international rivalry, either it's between states belonging to the same "civilization" (Iran vs. Saudi Arabia, Russia vs. Ukraine, North Korea vs. South Korea) or it's between members of different "civilizations" but the conflict has nothing to do with culture and everything to do with material conditions (US vs. China competing for global hegemony, Egypt vs. Ethiopia due to the dam, and so on). Also, even just from a cultural perspective, the "civilizations" he describes are pretty ridiculous; Malaysia and Iran are part of the same civilization because both are majority Muslim? It's absurd.

>>18521267
So then why do South Korea, Japan, Vietnam, and Taiwan all have mediocre to poor relations with the PRC and good relations with the US? They're all "Sinic" Orientals, right? Or are they all playing 3D chess, and soon they'll all work together to destroy white people?

>>18521267
>Liberals seethe because he was right.
yea no. his view on the world is so braindead you'd think he never left his country.
>eastern europe still divided between pro-russians and pro west
>islamic civilization one group when shia and sunni hate eachother
>saudi, egypt, turkey, iran all trying to influence the region
>SEA divided between islamic and buddhist
>japan in it's own civilization when it's foreign policy is the same as USA
>lation america all in union
almost none of his theory came true

>>18521224
That's kinda based though. Liberalism is wiping out in less than a century all millennial religions, dictatorships and monarchies.

>>18521426
It’s not based, it’s dystopian, and the saddest part is that no one cares about it as long as capital is LGBT/BLM compliant. We literally have the worst wealth inequality and the most totalitarian system devouring the world and no one even cares.

>>18521426
There will be a decline in all those things, but liberalism and prosperity also collapse fertility, so it self-destructs over the long term.

>>18521224
Good post except that it's not liberalism that is consuming everything it's capitalism, and given enough time even liberalism will be consumed by capitalism such that the only thing left that will exist in human society is the algorithmic dictatorship of the profit margin.

>>18521507
Liberalism and capitalism are the same thing. Capital is only allowed to be so dominant because Liberal ideology enables unlimited growth under the name of freedom and equality. Ideology provides every justification for the West melting the world into a cesspool of decadence. If you want to control capital then you need to get rid of Liberalism first. China figured this out and they’re growing in power because of it.

>>18521522
>Liberalism and capitalism are the same thing.

No they are not. Liberalism was developed in the 18th century by academics and bourgeoning industrialists because they needed a moral and ideological framework for why aristocracy should be destroyed, and the productive capacities of industrial capitalism unleashed.

But we don't live in the 18th century anymore, you no longer need the ideology of individual rights and freedom of speech or anything similar, when the entire world is already controlled by 20 international megacorporations.

In fact, the wokegoloid/SJW hatred you see against common liberal-democratic ideas such as freedom of speech, national borders and so on, is precisely the biggest evidence that liberalism is being replaced by a new hegemonic capitalist ideology.

>>18521507
It is truly hilarious and absurd how you guys have zeroed in on this one thing, profit from wage labor, to the point where you pretend nothing else has any causal role. Like it's honestly practically insanity

>>18521557
This isn’t true at all. We still absolutely have the ideology of individual rights and freedom. Woke ideology is just another stage of Liberalism, used as a means of maintaining Western hegemony and spreading capital by placating people into ideals of diversity, fluidity and equality around the world. The entire point is for Liberalism to rebrand and make concessions to sacrifice civilizational values so that the individual can be more empowered, and thus so more people can be included in international capital. This is why the language of Progressivism is all about “inclusivity” and “representation” and “intersectionality.” Liberalism is the core of all this, you still need a liberal ontology to justify LGBT since it’s literally just hedonism and self-identification. The contradictions you see are because Liberalism is imploding and has become extremely decadent, not to mention how much capital is disintegrating global society alongside these new values. It all works in tandem, global capital requires liberal ideology to function

>>18521592
It's not that nothing else has any causal role, it's that ideas are only for individuals, but material changes affect everyone and everything.

I don't care if you personally don't believe in "diversity" or if you do believe in it, that fact alone is not going to change anything Blackrock decides to do with their capital.

>>18521620
>We still absolutely have

Yeah and if you read my original comment you moron, you would see I wrote that liberalism *WILL BE CONSUMED* by capitalism at some point in the future when those ideas are no longer useful to it.

As Marx said, "Everything that is solid will melt into air, all that is sacred will be profaned.", there's no reason to believe this capacity capitalism has to erode the significance of specific ideas won't at some eventuality include liberal ideas themselves.

>>18521651
The government does have an impact on what they do though. So does the federal reserve. Also who runs or owns BlackRock?

>>18521690
>Also who runs or owns BlackRock?

Certainly not people who believe in wokegoloid ideology that's for sure.

I'm just going to assume that the Prime Directive for a company like Blackrock is profit margin, and if you don't get higher margins you'll get fired regardless of what kind of personal ideology you have floating around in your head.

>>18521557
I was under the impression that liberalism (small L) was the result of feudal reaction precipitating revolution (1789 - sans-culottes/Jacobinism, the middle-class needed a strong monarchy to curb the aristocracy, the strong monarchy needed a weak middle-class to modernize), producing a propertied oligarchy expressed through a Representative Assembly and not Absolute Monarchy (Déclaration des droits de l'homme et du citoyen de 1789). Sovereignty is displaced, and now resides in the Nation (King of France becomes King of the French) - then the militancy of the urban poor is capitalized on as the economy sputtered and la Terreur occurs. The Industrial Revolution is secondary to these events, not concurrent.

>>18521727
Do you know who does run it though? Because we need to understand those specific people. Also why does the fed give them money?

>>18521742
If you're going to Jewpost you can fuck off back to /pol/.

>>18521674
And yet you still ignore the fact that capital is only able to melt everything with the permission of liberal ideology. Any country could try and stop the unstoppable trajectory of capital but liberal institutions constantly allow it to continue in the name of freedom. Why do you think leftists are so fucking ineffective? They’ve all been liberalized, wealth inequality is worse than it was in the early 20th century and yet there are no revolutions in sight. 20 million people protested for George Floyd, no one gave a fuck when Amazon destroyed small businesses or when America refused to provide healthcare and monthly income during an economic crash. As long as these corporations support black transgenders in the name of liberation, then people will be OK with capital killing us all. Put a rainbow on any social justice slogan and people will support it even if a corporation is waving it. And yet all you care about is the primacy of economic factors

>>18521749
>And yet you still ignore the fact that capital is only able to melt everything with the permission of liberal ideology.

No it's not lol, half the countries in the Western world barely even have free speech, and another half of them don't even have property rights in their constitutions. Liberalism will be dead in 50 years tops.

>>18521776
Keep telling yourself that as the entire youth population of the world is raised on social media and indoctrinated into progressive values, gender fluidity, minority worship, identity politics and obsession with democracy. Everything will go progressive, and even if you don’t consider this liberal (it is) then it doesn’t matter either way since it will be the basis for globalized capital.

>>18521746
Is that unironically your answer to extremely basic questions? You dont think it's relevant that the fed feeds them money, you dont even want to know who they actually are?

>>18521799
This reads like gibberish.

>>18521557
Well the form of globalizing capitalism currently in existence relies on liberalism. Furthermore, there is non liberal capitalism, but there is no non-capitalist liberalism, as Strauss points out, if you read between the lines of Locke, it boils down to "Let me indulge my pleonexia". Liberalism implies Capitalism. Nietzsche also identified this exact point, that capitalism breaks down aristocracy and tends into oligarchy(The difference between the 2 in Aristotle is simply that one is good people, the other is oligarchy), and thus opposed Capitalism.

>In fact, the wokegoloid/SJW hatred you see against common liberal-democratic ideas such as freedom of speech, national borders and so on, is precisely the biggest evidence that liberalism is being replaced by a new hegemonic capitalist ideology.

You have to think about this dialectically, this is just the inversion of liberalism(as well as capitalism), it's not yet anything new, it's just liberalism self estranging or losing faith in itself. I think Deneen is broadly right, that we're about to see liberalism become authoritarian, the knight of virtue, to borrow from Hegel.

>>18521799
>and even if you don’t consider this liberal (it is)

Well it might be liberal if you change the definition of liberal, but why do you think someone like Jordan Peterson, or any other "conservative" is so hated by these people?

Peterson is literally a boomer liberal who, like many boomer liberals, like the bootstrap ethos, and the "marketplace of ideas" rhetoric, which is literally exactly what liberalism used to be like 40 years ago.

The fact that liberalism has morphed into something else that is more useful to global capitalism than Peterson's Cold War boomer liberalism doesn't make me wrong, it literally just proves my thesis that capitalism erodes and changes even the definitions of words.

>>18521727
I like how you not only refused to answer who owns BlackRock, but also completely moved the discussion away from who the people who own BlackRock are and why they do what they do towards the ideology of the people who don't own BlackRock. It's almost like your entire ideology is just part of a dialectic meant to keep people from having political power... Hm... I wonder who would benefit from such a scheme... I wonder what Arthur Finklestein would have to say about this, his career was in constructing such dialectics after all...

>>18521746
So you do know who owns BlackRock, you know why they do what they do, and your ideology is just a distraction to prevent people from enacting political will against them.

>>18521831
The reason I refuse to answer is that any relation of power to people's ethnic grouping or race is a pathetic red herring that only paranoiacs entertain, and it is just factually incorrect given that any international corporation that is completely devoid of people with Jewish ancestry also acts like thieves and scoundrels.

>b-b-but they are *spiritually jewish!!!!*

kys

>>18521845
Do you know or not know who owns it? I dont care what race they are. And why do you think the federal reserve gives them money?

>>18521845
> any relation of power to people's ethnic grouping or race is a pathetic red herring that only paranoiacs entertain

Not necessarily WASPs are key to understanding why capitalism developed the way it did from ~1870-1960 a la Weber.

>>18521850
>I dont care what race they are.

Stop arguing in bad faith you homosexual.

>>18521854
Hm can we apply this to any other ethnic groups or just wasps

>>18521823
Well yea, that’s the point. Liberalism is entering a new stage where it’s forsaking civilization in favor of globalization, and therefore it has to change its values. It is remorseful, repentant and pandering now. It constantly caters to other demographics and expresses guilt over its past sins, but this is just to earn the trust of lower classes and integrate them into the system. It’s literally an inverse of the White Man’s Burden.

>19th century Liberalism: the white man must civilize and save the savage non-whites from their inferior ways

>21st century Liberalism: the inferior minorities are harmed by systemic oppression, therefore the white man must be an ally and liberate them with his privilege

Same shit, just with a different rhetoric. Liberalism initially wanted to conquer through civilization (hence the war on terror against Islam) but that quickly died out after it failed. Peterson is a conservative who’s too stupid to realize that his brand of liberalism is inevitably going to die. Trump was basically just the last gasp of breath of the old liberalism.

>>18521861
Why can't you answer these two extremely simple questions
1. Who owns it
2. Why does the fed give them money
How can you pretend you're analyzing the economy and power if you refuse even the most basic questions?

>>18521845
>ethnoreligious particularism doesn't exist or is totally nullified by profit incentives

>>18521845
But here >>18521746 you said that the fact that BlackRock is run by Jews for their own ends IS the only important facet to them.

So, by your own admission, your entire ideology is just a cope for defending Jewish international finance. You are, after all, defending an investment bank because its owners have a certain (((ethnoreligious affiliation))).

>>18521872
You're woke if you dig it. No Mickey Mouse can be expected to follow today's Negro Idiom without a hip assist.
>The humiliation of primitive peoples is reversed by the beauty, harmony and innocence that is praised in their culture.

>>18521878
More like it doesn't matter to me if the CEO of a major corporation who can fire 5k people at the drop of a hat, prays to Allah, is Jewish, sucks dick or snorts cocaine.

This is what I don't get about you guys' racist myopia, if the United States was exclusively ruled by WASPs or Jews or the Irish, it would literally look identical to what it looks like now.

>>18521883
>you said that the fact that BlackRock is run by Jews

Stop putting words in my mouth you whore. I said I don't care if they are run by Jews because it's not relevant to anything of note.

Again I repeat, fuck off back to your mentally ill hugbox.

>>18521897
I genuinely just want the names so we can look at who they're tied to. I dont care if its run by wasps which it easily could be. And you still refuse to answer the question about the fed funding them

>>18521897
>>18521901
So exactly what every anon in this thread has already said: you know that BlackRock is run by Jews, and you're intentionally participating in a Jewish created dialectic meant to keep non-Jews from having political power. You just want to LARP as a Bolshevik.

>>18521912
Epic gaslighting faggot, you could be the perfect SJW if you only embraced your latent homosexuality.

>>18521906
Stop asking for the fucking names. The people who run it aren't important, and its not like it has any power anyways, it's not the real power behind Capitalism.

>>18521897
You can't demonstrate that. Capitalist countries are markedly different, if it was all a single homogenizing system under the logic of Capital, they'd be far more identical by now. If the ruling class was 30% Han Chinese I'd be studying my Confucious (in some countries they do form a distinct elite.) Noticing ethnic self interest is not racist, you just have blinders on caused by your incomplete rejection of liberalism.

>>18521919
LOL
Very convenient that you dint want to actually think about this in any detail. Who is the real power behind capitalism then, you brought up BlackRock

>>18521927
>Capitalist countries are markedly different

Only in degree and not in kind.

>>18521929
White Supremacy, duh? What are you, stupid? Liberalism was constructed by WASP elites. Who the fuck do you think keeps funding the Republican Party?

>>18521206
Doesn't really matter in the face of climate change. Everyone is going to be forced to live more sustainably. More likely people are going to fight over water and farm land than over identity.

>>18521936
>white supremacy
Fucking lmao. So it matters that there were rich wasps, but its utterly insignificant that there are rich jews you crazy conspiracy theorist. Braindead retard

>>18521933
That's the problem with Marxism, real difference gets annihilated under your autistic boxes you shoehorn everything into. The bourgeoisie is only mainly unified on economics, and even then they seem to be lurching back towards a form of social democracy globally (Great Reset).

>>18521947
>Everyone is going to be forced to live more sustainably.

Wrong. Everyone except the global elite will be forced to live sustainably, ecopolitics doesn't abolish class society.

>>18521936
>Who the fuck do you think keeps funding the Republican Party?
the koch brothers are jewish

>>18521951
Well maybe that's where your information about Marxism is shallow, the bourgeoisie is often not unified in any formal sense at all, but that doesn't mean politics isn't working predominately for their benefit.

Besides, they will do anything they can to secure their power and privileges, if this means using the state corporatistically, like it does in many social-democratic countries, then so be it.

>>18521955
Except the wealthy are the majority of the unsustainable consumption, in order for sustainable living the wealthy will have to cut back drastically on their consumption or too much resentment will build up and cause social unrest.

>>18521811
Nothing gibberish about it. The global youth is socially progressive, people care about identity more than economy, and most people homogenized on social media into liberal consumerism. This ideology is going to be the dominant force for the foreseeable future, there's no reason to write it off or pretend as if young people will magically stop caring about oppression and diversity even if capital becomes more unrelenting.

>>18521975
I don't agree. You can in principle make meat so expensive that only rich people can afford it, which means they can continue their lifestyle because the aggregate consumption of meat will go down.

The point is that we live in a society where 80% of people have to follow rules, and the remaining 20% don't.

>>18521992
The ideology is not organically popular

>>18521970
Politics does work mostly for their benefit but they're split over social and cultural issues just like the rest of the public, so the policies on such issues map well to public sentiment anyway. You veer into unfalsifiable territory when you claim of course the logic of capital demands neoliberalism until it doesn't, which you explain away in an ad hoc fashion.

>>18522003
>but they're split over social and cultural issues just like the rest of the public

They really aren't desu. Most rich Democrats and rich Republicans agree on practically everything. They want every handout removed from gov't, they want lower taxes and they both want to increase immigration. Abortion is probably the only thing they really disagree on, and even that disagreement hasn't really been that harsh given the fact that abortion is practically legal everywhere in the U.S.

>>18522019
Again, I already said they were mostly in agreeance on economics. Rank and file conservatives don't hate all immigration but only illegal immigration, they're not against it in principle, that's just the far right.

>>18522033
Well I don't think I veer off into unfalsifiable territory like you said here>>18522003, I think if capitalists and their ideamongers figure out some kind of ideology that is even more useful than liberalism, they'll change in a heartbeat.

I mean, ask yourself, why has China been so successful the last 30 years? Is it because all the people there are enjoying so many political rights? Be serious.

>>18522057
China has been successful because of capitalism. It's a good example of what I'm saying. The capitalist elites can differ markedly, so claiming they're all just beholden to the superstructure which simultaneously explains both racism and antiracism is a stretch. Marxist theory, outside of some obvious claims every other socialist made, often distorts more than it illuminates.

>>18522081
But that's the point dude. China has been successful because it allowed private corporations to pursue profit, that's it. There's no magical Chinese version of capitalism that is different from Californian capitalism, or German capitalism.

You're literally saying exactly what I am saying, you just have too much of an ego to just say "I agree.".

>>18521206
At a superficial level, especially after 9/11, he seemed right and conservatives used him to justify a lot of ideas about the dangers of Islam specifically. Huntington thought America would lead the "West" but there's enough civil conflict for that to not make sense. Really every civilization is in a different form of crisis right now.

>>18521294
>I'll admit I haven't read the book, but from what I understand, he argues that, with the end of the Cold War, geopolitical conflicts will be organized along "civilizational" rather than economic lines, right?
Economic lines isn't exactly right but ideology. It was one of the variety of 1990s "end of ideology" hot takes. Unlike Fukuyama who thought liberal democracy was the end of history Huntington thought civilizational conflict would take over as the primary political dynamic instead.

>>18522134
Yes capitalist economies are similar economically, but can differ a lot socially and culturally, which matters a lot more to many. The idea that there is some particular bourgeois ideology beyond economics is false.

>>18522134
>China has been successful because it allowed private corporations to pursue profit, that's it.
This is a path most countries got on by the 1980s but it didn't work out as well. China explicitly squirted all kinds of rules for the Washington Consensus and people are still salty they were allowed into the WTO

>>18521746
where the fuck do you think you are tranny?

>>18522000
It certainly is with Zoomers, they're emphatically attached to it and it's a global phenomenon

>>18522872
They're subject to huge amounts of propaganda

>>18521522
>Liberalism and capitalism are the same thing.
There are plenty of capitalist nations that are not liberal, e.g. China.

>>18521936
fucking kek the absolute state of /lit/

>>18521426
It’s not based at all. It’s destroying EVERYTHING including the planet. It’s liquefying culture and ethnicity and creating a homogenized consumptive class of sub human Brazilian retards. Go to Brazil if you would like to see your future. Is planetary feudalism with diseugenics being used as a weapon to keep the masses too stupid to fight back. It’s the greatest evil humanity has ever faced.

>>18521495
I agree. Leftism has become the compliant religion of the underclass.

>>18521746
>I trust Jews
The Post

>>18521746
Qui?

>>18523132
>he thinks something outlandish was said.
There’s so much to tell you, anon.

the new world order very VERY clearly began after ww2, and will (likely) end with the United States losing its influence on the world, which since ww2 has virtually completely shaped most of the planet, and Imagine if anyone is going to command the next order by exerting their influence in place of the US, its china

obviously no one can 100% predict the future but i think its safe to say the post war dominance of the united states has completely shaped the world order we are living in

>>18524195
>those pesky white supremacists and their mass importation of nonwhites, normalization of non white culture and anti-white philosophy and legal policy, and absolute obliteration of the white working class via all these divisive and completely uncalled for racial conflicts and asinine "progressive" philosophies

>>18521936
>Republican Party
Has been Zionist owned in totality since around the rise of the Jewish Trotskyite-Neocons in the late 90's.

>>18521746
>doesn't want to face the facts
>immedatiely shuts down
>"I-IT'S... ITS' THE WASPS"
yeah yeah yeah we heard it all before tranny. Its PC to shit talk WASPs but mention one word about your funny hat friends and suddenly its the SHOAH. What a waste of time.

>>18521426
>because neoliberalism is not a cult in and of itself
let me guess, you read MARX and endlessly refer anons to MARXISTS.ORG and other "totally not biblical passages" from your "totally not messianic prophet worship" of MARX

>>18521897
>it would literally look identical to what it looks like now.
False. WASPs ruled the US in the beginning and this had radically altered over time due to successive immigration waves and the "march through the institutions" following WW2. You are just coping at this point because you don't want to consider the alternative for it's far easier to lie to yourself that your professor who's last name ended in BERG surely wasn't lying to you. You ever wonder why they force you to take "sociology" (pseudoscience) in your FIRST semester of American college?

>>18524295
Who do you think brought the slaves over?
Secessionists slavers of the south where liberal Democrats. Nowadays they hide their intentions. Which has always been about making money and keeping power. So yeah, they shipped jobs out to cheap labor impoverishing absolutely everyone black white and brown. Both parties are building a damn wall, fool. They’re also for tighter borders. But you just can’t see it, they’ve got you so fooled.

>>18524329
>Who do you think brought the slaves over?
A lot of people including African tribal groups that sold their own people and war captives.
>impoverishing absolutely everyone black white and brown
Also false, plus you conveniently just ignore the annexation of the Neocon order that began in the 60s when Jewish Trotsykists felt empowered to hijack the anti-Stalinist rhetoric fermenting in the Cold War.
>black white and brown
This also makes me laugh hysterically.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pUzitj2_hQo
We have nothing in common with these people. The greatest scam is continually trying to sell us the lie that we ABSOLUTELY MUST live together in a single community. That lie has done more harm than anything else.

>>18524329
>Both parties are building a damn wall, fool.
The US continually has high immigration rates and both parties are for the displacement of the white working class. The current rhetoric of "LE TERRORISM" is "white nationalist domestic terrorists". They set this up with the Jan. 6 circus when they allowed white working class people the ability to "storm Capitol Hill" which every single media outlet painted as the "next 9.11" etc. If it were based on "white supremacy" then it would be logical for the public enemy no. 1 of the nation to be, well, not white. And yet every single media outlet and politician is supporting the enemy of the "white nationalist domestic terrorist". It's just not convenient for your ideology to accept that America as it exists in your mind does not exist in reality. Look at Hollywood.

>>18524350
We’re not talking about Africa
The economy is in a free fall with the rich getting riche.
>William F Buckley was a Trotskyist
You a Bircher or something?
>This makes me laugh. There’s no such thing as poverty in America
Peabrain. You can’t even understand plain English when it’s all you speak

>>18524383
>The economy is in a free fall with the rich getting riche.
The majority of those Southern Secessionist land owners were completely ruined after the Civil War e.g. the "Carpetbaggar" phenomenon of northern industrialists buying up destroyed property (particularly in the wake of Sherman's march). This also manifested in a stronger Federal govt which was more influenced by industrialists among other things. It also paved the way for the re-shaping of the borders through successive waves of immigration.
>William F Buckley was a Trotskyist
>purposefully chooses to ignore others like James Burnham or the most famous "GODFATHER OF NEOCONSERVATISM" Irving Kristol - both Trotskyists
The majority of those pushing for war in Iraq, for example, where not "oil tycoons" as has been painted by the American media to subvert blame where blame is due - but actually Neocon intellectual circles of which the majority were Jewish Trotskyists. This was even written about in Haaretz: https://www.haaretz.com/1.4764706

>>18521206
Does not satisfactorily address conflicts within cultures(China-Taiwan, Russia-Ukraine, Serbia-Kosovo, Sunni-Shia)

>>18524483
>Russia-Ukraine
>Ukrainians are Muscovites
lel

>>18524483
a book from 1999 doesn't address current happenings whoah

>>18521863
Yes.
Niggers are key to understanding high crime + crack.