/lit/ - Literature

>>18518853
more than you've read already

Euthyphro
Apology
Crito
Meno
Phaedo
Symposium
Phaedrus
Republic

you can read a secondary text on plato if you want to move on quickly
if not just read the main dialogues. aristotle doesn't pick apart plato, he just builds on and amends general platonic concepts
read at least the five early dialogues
>euthyphro
>apology
>crito
>phaedo
>meno
then the republic + symposium.

>>18518868
>>18518870
The fact that these almost identical lists were posted within 30 seconds of each other should tell you that this is common knowledge by now.

>>18518881
thank God

>>18518853
Based Nat poster.

But all of it (except for a few small early dialogues which people don't even know is authentic or not). With works like the Parmenides it can help to have read Aristotle but you still have to read it first.

also Plato > Aristotle

>>18518853
I wrote this for a previous anon a long time ago:

>-Plato Five Dialogues(Euthyphro, Apology, Crito, Meno, Phaedo which includes the trial and death of Socrates)
>-Laches
>-Ion
>-Protogoras
>-Gorgias(best possible explanation and condensing of all of Plato's typical philosophy and orientation)
>-Cratylus
>-some other smaller/earlier dialogues
>-Symposium
>-Republic
>That's a pretty good intro-to-middle list. As far "last dialogues", there are quite a few and the Republic isn't one of them. There's a radical change in late Plato from early Plato which is an even greater genius than what most people see, it's truly remarkable. How he was able to, as it were almost begin a new start in a philosophical orientation. Nevertheless such dialogues are:

>-Phaedrus(has the secret to the whole structuring of the dialogue, as well as the reason for Plato's use of it, and in the case of the dialogue, especially his late, Plato's poetic as well as philosophical genius comes into its greatest ability--; and Plato does nothing and puts nothing in the dialogue for no reason, it is all, working backwards to forwards or vice versa, structurally it is all there purposefully)
>-Philebus(continues from Gorgias, but I should say a lot of Plato's dialogues intersect with each other in very interesting ways where you have to keep in mind where something he previously arrived at is being rejected, or built upon or such)

>-Parmenides
>-Theaetetus
>-Sophist
>-Statesman
>-Timaeus
>-Critias
>-Laws

>>18518942
thx

>>18518918
Black person emotes like an anime character.

>>18518881
It's pretty much just the trial dialogues with Symposium and Republic added.

>>18518853
Is Plotinus the final boss of the Greeks?

>>18519048
Definitely not.

https://www.tiktok.com/@notcursednat/video/6974088077128060165?lang=en&is_copy_url=1&is_from_webapp=v1

Are cats or dogs closer to the ideal form of the pet?

>>18518853
you can skip plato completly, it would be benefial of course but many people with limited time (me included) only study one of them

>>18519097
NPC answer: dogs

Enlightened champions answer: cats

Extreme CHAD answer: no pets are necessary, animals are not to be fraternized with.

>>18518918
Her bf is black natbro

>>18519537
No he's not. No he's not. No he's not. No he's not. No he's not. He's just a friend.

>>18519623
Do you really think anti-white racemixing propaganda has no effect on impressionable girls?

>>18519537
Like the Tarzan movies?

>>18519650
Yes. Nat is based.

https://i.4cdn.org/wsg/1624546984907.webm

>>18519676
Coalburner whores aren't based

>>18518868
>>18518870
You should also read the Parmenides(after having read the Republic). That's the dialog aristotle pulls arguments from for plato refuting his own theory of forms.

>>18518853
5 philosophy units

>>18519686
She's not a coalburner!

>>18518853
First, you should stop idolizing women on the internet, otherwise you're never going to make it.

>>18518853
>I'm trying to get enough pre-reading of the Greeks so that Plotinus's Enneads
you should read the entire collected works of plato if you are wanting to explore neoplatonism. this should be obvious to you

Does anyone have the Platonism General copypasta?

>>18518853
You don't even need to read Plato

>>18518918
>these are supposedly the same species

>>18519876
If she has a black bf she is a coalburner

>>18518853
>>18518918
Based nat(philosopher)kings
>>18519537
>>18519623
what black guy are you talking about what black guy are you talking about what black guy are you talking about what black guy are you talking about what black guy are you talking about

>>18518853

To get to Plotinus and appreciate the Enneads in context then you really have to go through all the Presocratics, Plato, Aristotle, Sophists, Cynics, Skeptics, Epicureans and Stoics.

To read Aristotle you have to be familiar with Plato, especially the 'forms' and the Presocratics because he frequently comments and critiques their doctrines.

Use secondary literature for all but Plato and Aristotle if you want to move fast and still have a good background to begin the Enneads.

>>18518918

Holy fuck plato pseuds are still infecting this board for some reason.

Plato can't prove with certainty the metaphysical aspects of his philosophy. Yes, logical positivism. I've argued against a lot of platonists and all of them stop having something to say by reaching a dead end.

>>18521157
The Platonists you have argued with were brainlets then. But so are you for misunderstanding Plato.

>>18518870
>you can read a secondary text on plato if you want to move on quickly
Actually, no,

"Well, Chaerephon, as you know, was very impetuous in all his doings, and he went to Delphi and boldly asked the oracle to tell him whether - as I was saying, I must beg you not to interrupt - he asked the oracle to tell him whether there was anyone wiser than I was, and the Pythian prophetess answered that there was *no man wiser*."
"When I heard the answer, I said to myself, What can the god mean? and what is the interpretation of this riddle? for I know that I have no wisdom, small or great. What can he mean when he says that *I am the wisest* of men?"

No man wiser => There are men as wise as me
I am the wisest => There are no men as wise as me


The texts are not what they initially seem to be
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Persecution_and_the_Art_of_Writing..

>>18518853
I WANT TO FUCK THAT GIRL
TO CUM ON HER FACE AAAAAAAAAHH

>>18521157
In fairness, he did call it the "myth" of Er.

Don''t be a helenocentric faggot
Take the babylonian, chinese and egyptian pill

https://i.4cdn.org/wsg/1624553906649.webm
https://i.4cdn.org/wsg/1624567246265.webm

Nat is based.

>>18521214

No, I don't misunderstand them. All of them start by saying this only to be proved wrong after 3 hours of comments, so I'm not going through it again.

>>18521401
>No, I don't misunderstand them.
No I mean you don't understand Plato.

>All of them start by saying this only to be proved wrong after 3 hours of comments, so I'm not going through it again.
Very convenient for you (I would have said the same but since you said it first I get gloating rights).

https://i.4cdn.org/wsg/1624567372557.webm

Bump for Plato.

>>18518868
>>18518870
Theaetetus, The Sophist and Parmenides are absolutely essential to Plato. They are his more difficult dialogues, but need to be read

>>18518868
>>18518942
Jesus imagine reading all of that and not falling asleep. How do you even get through it? I'm sure you get all the ladies guys. I can picture you approaching and saying to them "Yo babe, just read Gorgias and Symposium" and they just stare and leave.


Just read Republic dude and you're all set. Ignore these virgin fags

>>18523189
Actually, boasting about reading Plato and flexing my philosophical knowledge of him made a girl thirst over me once.

>>18523189
i do not care about women

>>18523189
i am gay

>>18526563
You're not "gay", are you anon?

>>18526577
i sadly am
now hold my hand anon
let's read mishima together

>>18526601
Are you gay gay, like uncontrollably gay, as in you've never felt sexual desire for a woman and from the get-go have been attracted to men, or just sexually blurred gay?

>>18526625
the former

similar question: what of aristotle's work do i need to move on to the romans?
i got myself his collected works but i only want to read the necessary stuff for now and then slowly read through the rest later

>>18526729
Start with the Poetics, his most fun read and gives you an insight into his systematic thinking.

>>18526648
Tell me, do you feel it necessary that you read books you can sexually relate to (Mishima)?

>>18521564
it's okay fren, just stop looking at them it's almost like they don't even exist

>>18526775
not really, the "let's read mishima" part was just a joke
i don't even really like mishima, but i'll maybe give him a second try someday
i don't need to sexually relate to stories to enjoy them – if i would, then i would miss out on many great works

>>18526858
Was just curious about gay psychology, wasn't insinuating. This has been informative anon, thank you.

bump.

Where is a good place to start with Aristotle if I've already read all of >>18518868 these?
Aristotle reading lists seem to vary wildly, unlike most of the Plato ones.

>>18518853
All of it. Plato is based af. Aristotle was just a blue ribbon retard

>>18527939
You've still got the Philebus, Parmenides, Theaetetus, Sophist, Statesman, Timaeus, Critias and Laws to go anon.

Does anybody have a discord link for the platonism server? there are no more generals and the invites expired lol

>>18529138
https://discord.gg/rC93FJAu
here bro

>>18529175
thank you

>>18527939
But Poetics is the best starting point for Aristotle.

>>18520692
there is no black guy you idiot, they are coping minorities since that brutal mogging she did to that darkie girl

>>18521240
Underrated post

She is not aging well

>>18519479
The dog that is in front of you could be your reincarnated grandpa.

>>18530514
She's only 16.

>>18518853
>reading the greeks
gay

>>18521157
How do positivists solve the problem of unviersals

>>18530523
Tragic

>>18530540
She looks completely normal.

>>18519048
No, Plato is.

>>18526729
The Organon, Metaphysics, Physics, Poetics, Ethics

>>18531199
Its all downhill from here

>>18521564

all of it and never stop. you can read the ethics once and then back to plato forever

>>18532909
>>18527977
>>18520114
Is Plato really that dense? Are Platonic metaphysics really a lifetime study? Can I spend the rest of my life over his writings? Have I been lied to all this time?

>>18532946
platonic ethics moreso

>>18518868
Is this the order you read them in

>>18526881
No problemo faggot

>>18534438

I almost feel like youre better off reading about plato and then reading whatever you want and youll have enough context to make sense of what the dialogue is about in all its various strains

>>18532946
Plato lead the charge in ending the European dark age
Without plato, we would all still be living in feudalism, so it's important to at least understand the so called hype around him and his student.
But really, I'm not an expert. I've only been reading the Greeks for 30 years, still on the byzantines

>>18532946
Most complete philosopher ever

>>18518853
The main dialogues and a good contextual introduction to that specific era. Before either of them you have to be acquainted with the pre-socratics.

>>18532946
Some of the later dialogues are extremely complex and philosophy's greatest minds haven't been able to completely decode them. There's also the whole unwritten doctrines thing, the orphic/pythagorean influences, and the neoplatonic developments as well as Aristotle's strain of Platonism. There's a lot you can study.

>>18519623
YOU
YOU GOT WHAT I NEEEEED
BUT YOU SAY HES JUST A FRIEND
YOU SAY HES JUST A FRIEND
literature related bc cuckoldry is a classic literary them that Biz Markie explores with a deftness and sensitivity that, frankly, earns him a spot as a minor great in the western canon (Wraith of Bloom gtfo).

>>18520482
Proof?
If true she is that she can rot.

>>18529175
Can I get an invite anon

>>18534843
Wtf I hate plato now

>>18521564
yall mind if i scream

>>18529138
>>18529175
>>18529196
>>18536289
Kill yourself, sincerely.

>>18537937
Only if you go first.

>>18538720
>look everyone we have our little discord community to talk about books isn't that swell :)
Look, just admit it - you're interested in having sex with strangers on the internet. That's all there is to it.

>>18538971
Oh no I'm not those anons.

>>18518853
Aristotle is a faggot. Skip.

>>18530534
>How does X solve this non-existent problem I made up
>checkmate Xians

What do you guys think of the Thaeatetus? I didn't enjoy it as much as other dialogues, but I can tell there's complex nuances behind the text that will take study before I understand it. For example, there's some conclusions reached at the beginning of the dialogue which are upended by the end of it.
For some reason, my class didn't read the Sophist after, and instead read the Statesman, though I was more interested in that dialogue than the Theaetetus.

>>18521157
>logical positivism
And yet, you've not provided any substance or proof for your claims concerning Plato and gave an unfounded anecdote instead. Funny how the brain of a logical positivist works.

Honestly the only dialogues you can skip from Plato and still feel like you haven’t missed anything that’s important at all are some of the random early dialogues and then maybe Laws, just cause it’s so long and not very linked to his other ideas (though still building on the Republic in some ways)

>>18534907
>Plato lead the charge in ending the European dark age

how so?

>>18539929
I understand the importance of the Theaeatetus/Sophist/Statesman trilogy, but I found it to be some of the driest of Plato’s work and without obvious connection to other areas of philosophy I’m interested in. Especially the elaboration of categories in the Sophist. Thaeatetus was a bit more tolerable, in that the dialogue was easier to follow and more entertaining, but the aporia was deeply unsatisfying. There are nice nuggets in the three dialogues, like the jury and midwife metaphors, but I really feel like an analysis of the meaning of knowledge and truth is one of the last things I want from Plato.

>>18529175
Please give invite anon I'd appreciate it

>>18540662
https://discord.gg/63MzEaZw