/lit/ - Literature

>>18511759
the short answer: epic of gilgamesh influenced homer, homer influenced everybody

>>18511759
>but how did it really influence literature?
Unknowable. It's an ancient text and was only rediscovered within the last few hundred years. There's no way of knowing the effect it had on its contemporaries or how far that influence traveled across ancient civilizations.

>>18511759
ever heard of this obscure text called the bible?

>>18511768
really it influenced homer didnt know that cause homer came many years after it and he lived in greece while the epic of gilgamesh was in sumeria

>>18511771
true the bible did copy the flood story from it so it definitely had some influence it was just one story out of hundreds in the bible though

it isnt important
100% of its importance is just from its age.
we actually know stories older than it but no one cares since they werent written before it.
the story is from at least 15 thousand B.C

>>18511779
>true the bible did copy the flood story from it
There is good evidence for the flood having been an actual event that happened and effected most, if not all, civilizations and people across the ancient world. Aboriginal Australians have the longest unbroken oral histories still extant and they have stories of the flood themselves. Did they also copy it from the epic of gilgamesh?

>>18511779
>>18511771
alright jews?

>>18511782
which stories are older?

>>18511773
we do not know exactly where homer is from, only that he wrote in greek and was well versed in greek culture
bc of the many parallels between homer and sumerian texts, it is nowadays a quite common theory in academia that homer is from the eastern greek colonies in what is today turkey where sumerian culture could easily mix with mycenian/greek

>>18511783
well the inundations were recorded after the great glacial melt waters I think that's about 12k years ago.
There's that site in I think Morocco that is thought to be the ruins of atlantis after it was washed by the great flood

>>18511797
>from the eastern greek colonies where sumerian culture could easily mix with mycenian/greek
That has naught to do with it

>>18511793
The story of how the Little Dipper was made.
The story was originally made where Greece is today but it was also told by the Native Americans which means it had to have been brought over when they originally crossed which was 15 thousand BC.

>>18511812
source

>>18511815
no fuck off cunt
if you cant say please then just get to fuck

>>18511769
>There's no way of knowing the effect it had on its contemporaries or how far that influence traveled across ancient civilizations.
Considering that it was copied and redacted across many periods of Mesopotamian history and was found in places as far away as the Hittite lands, we can assume that it was quite influential and popular in ancient times.

>>18511821
so youre talking out your ass

okay

>>18511783
The fact that the Genesis flood story mirrors Gilgamesh/Atra-Hasis so closely and that the Jews were in contact with Babylonian culture during the exile, immediately after or during which the writing of Genesis is placed makes it quite likely that it was indeed taken from Gilgamesh or Atra-Hasis.

>>18511828
no youre just a teenage runt who doesnt have manners

>>18511812
I've not heard of that tale before would you care to offer a source on the topic since you seem somewhat more familiar with it than I?

>>18511831
>likely

>>18511821
just give the source man you dont have to be rude about it he just asked because its an interesting topic

>>18511831
I heard the gilgamesh story is also based off of earlier flood stories it seems like they replaced the heroes from these stories with gilgamesh because he was a great king maybe he helped with a flood too

>>18511759
two bros vs fate itself what’s not to like

>>18511864
>I heard

>>18511848
>>18511852
It's called the Cosmic Hunt.
The broadest part is about an animal that is hunted, killed then turned into a constellation.
One exists in South Australia about a man eating Emu killed whose eye turns into a star, another in Siberia about Orion's belt being three deer and another in Northern Canada about a similar story.

>>18511896
>this was once revealed to me in a dream

>>18511903
Just looked it up, seems really interesting, anon. Any books you'd recommend on the topic?

>>18511759
Ud rēa, ud sura rēa
Ngi rēa, ngi bara rēa
Mu rēa mu sura rēa
Ud ul ningduēpaēaba
Ud ul ningduēmi zid duggaaba
Eš kalammaka ninda šuaba
Imšurinnakalammaka ningtab akaba
An kita badabaraaba
Ki anta badasuraaba
Mu namluulu baangaraaba

>>18511986
Okay soomer

>>18512008
>2008
>Okay soomer
underrated

>>18511986
What's this image from and what is the instrument?

>>18511986
pretty good lyrics but i wonder if back then they sung the whole epic like that would have taken a while

>>18512015
Its from a youtube video of a guy singing part of the epic of Gilgamesh the instrument is a sumerian traditional instrument

>>18512015
>>18512018
image is from here
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QUcTsFe1PVs
>instrument
the instrument is a sumerian lute (fewer stringed, typically 1-2 guitar)
>>18512018
>sung the whole epic
yeah i doubt it, it's way too long

>>18511864
Gilgamesh was not alive during the flood talked about in his Epic, the flood is not the central focus of the story but rather an element brought up by a side character towards the end.
You should read it, it's not very long.

>>18511759
Even in the Epic of Gilgamesh they speak of ancient times

>>18511759
wow can people read that in the pic

>>18512438
have you heard of the science called assyriology?

>>18511759
>very old
>Mesopotamian
>archetypal hero myth
That's why. The question is not so much how it influenced literature but how it affects our historical analysis of literature.

>>18511759
read it again and then think about the book of genesis

>>18512350
imagine if they recorded their history. or maybe they did in some way

>>18511831
> ...makes it quite likely that it was indeed taken from Gilgamesh or Atra-Hasis.
No, it just means the two texts they had a common source or inspiration.

>>18512557
>Jews were in exile in Babylon in the 6th c. BC
>The literati inevitably comes into contact with Babylonian intellectual traditions and cuneiform culture
>Genesis is thought to have been finished around the 5th c. BC
>the story of Noah is very similar to the Babylonian flood story
>Genesis also displays contact with Babylon in the Babel story
Do I need to tell you how to add 2 and 2 together as well?

>>18512018
This performance tells the whole epic and it's pretty good https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9ARRP5i2nw8

>>18512576
wow
homer stole all his works from the hebrews as well
>jews
its called hebrews mate. try not being thick as fuck

>>18512663
>its called hebrews mate. try not being thick as fuck
Are you retarded?

>>18512693
Try reading the new testament mate

>>18512693
Are you? (Rhetorical question, don't answer; we already know.)

>>18512702
>>18512733
Imagine not knowing that Jew and Hebrew/Israelite are interchangable terms in certain contexts.

>>18512749
Imagine not knowing that your mom's snatch and asshole are interchangeable terms in certain contexts!

Birthing you, for example.

>>18512693
Don't feed the christcuck trolls

>>18512576
they would not have been jews at that point in time just a hebrew tribe. jews as we might see them today essentially formed sometime around the second century as far as I recall

>>18512785
They are now, the other poster's usage is fine
Semantics is hard when you're a brainlet, we get it

>>18512576
Genesis was written down by Moses

>>18512785
the israelites of the exile were in national and religious identity, in broad terms, jewish

>>18512749
They aren't
The new testament says this

>>18512993
You meant, the texts the last roman religious scholars wrote and compiled to try and save roman culture from the hordes of covenant people during the age of the fall of Constantinope

The more you know about christianity the more you know that's a farce abused by their own scholars to control the populace with shallow spirituality and threats of violence and eternal damnation. Now go beg to your saviour for your next breath, will you

>>18512749
This. I'm having TGC's lectures about antiquity canon, and I'm still to be convinced the hebrews are not just plain jewish.

Which translation should one read for Gilgamesh?

>>18512936
The Jewish national and religious identity was formed many centuries after Christ.

>>18513084
> still seething and coping about his imminent descent to hell
What a fag.

>>18513314
You know you're not of the covenant, right, goy? Now go back to work. Don't forget to pray for Jesus for more strenght so you can work harder.

>>18513278
the new Benjamin Foster one

>>18513322
> still seething and coping

>>18513331
>still slaving away for the welfare of the chosen people

>>18513084
The records of the texts of the apostles existed wau before the fall of the fall of Constantinople. You would be sightly more accurate if you mentioned the greek scholars or Paul, but Paul was a hebrew.

>>18512796
>They are now, the other poster's usage is fine
That's inaccurate. The real brainlet here is you.

>>18512779
Look at this dude in fear because someone mentioned a christian related thing.

>>18511821
>>18511833
insufferable faggot-- someone shows an interest in something you've researched and this is how you respond? i hope you suffer terribly.
>>18511903
thank you.

>>18511759
>I know its one of the oldest books but how did it really influence literature?
Things aren't just important because they influenced other things we find important. Epic of Gilgamesh would be insanely valuable even if it hadn't influenced any writer, ever. It shows themes, character developments and ancient thinking exactly in the way that we find helpful.

How did ancient people cope with nature? How did they cope with each other? How did they utilize mythical elements in their understanding? What did they value? These are immensely important questions. Unless, of course, one believes that everything is arbitrary to the given culture and values/myths/ideas don't share a common anthropological denominator. In which case it's just a cool exotic story.

Bum

>>18511779
>>18511771
Asinine. EVERY culture GLOBALLY references the flood, because it happened.

>>18512576
Greeks have their own flood myths. Three of them actually : Dardanus for the golden race of men, Oegygus for the silver and the famous one Deucalion for current batch of men (the last one even has an arch n landing on top of a mountain)

>>18511759
It's important because it's ancient kino

>>18512026
>yeah i doubt it, it's way too long

Is it much longer than the Iliad? They would sing that whole thing, it would just take a few days.