/lit/ - Literature

>>18488190
Everything that isn't written in Chinese is tainted by Western propoganda

>>18488190

Governance and politics of China by Tony Saich
The Chinese Economy, Second Edition: Adaptation and Growth by Barry Naughton

Hasn’t written a book, but I like Eric Li
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eric_X._Li

The Governance of China, by Xi Jinping

I literally cannot find a book about what's going on in china that isn't like:
>Now before we begin, let us remember that Mao was very very very bad and killed millions and millions of ppl
>However now China is becoming more ECONOMICALLY FREE as it pursues a place in the world stage
I hate neoliberals so fucking much. Just tell me wtf is happening asshole.

>>18488291
Mao was good. Sounds like you are bad at looking for good books.

>>18488297
Mao was at most 70% good.

>>18488297
>>18488301
>kills 50 million people
very good

>>18488301
I agree

>>18488303
Dumb reddit liberal

>>18488291
You should just read both pro and anti-china books.

>>18488190
Neo-Maoism was a potential force in the 00s but Xi has got that under control. If the CCP were to somehow collapse ultra nationalists would take control and basically intensify everything the west is supposedly upset about (muh minorities, territorial boundaries, etc)

>>18488310
>killing 50 million people good
based 4channer

>Dude, what do you mean you don't think Mao killed 50 million people? Don't you read the New York Times?

>>18488190
Karl Marx: Capital

>>18488216
holy fucking based

Would any of you ccp supporters actually go and live in China

>>18490367
I would move there if I knew Chinese

>>18490367
Hypothetically yes, 70% of Chinese millennials are homeowners https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bbc.com/news/world-39512599.amp meanwhile here in the US it looks like my generation (zoomers) will be renting our whole lives. The Chinese middle class has been steadily growing while here it’s been dying. Prospects for raising a family just keep growing dimmer. It’s really unsurprising why many zoomers stan Xi

It doesn't cover the present but "Mao's China and After" by Maurice Meisner is probably the best single volume history of the modern PRC in English. Written from a left-wing but critical perspective.

"China's Communist Party: Atrophy and Adaptation" by David Shambaugh is a D.C. liberal / glowie book but it's actually a good one IMO because (1) it's written for other glowies and not a popular audience so there's less bullshit and (b) it deals seriously with the problems that were building up into the Hu Jintao era and goes into the CPC's research on what went wrong with the USSR. I'd say Schambaugh generally caught the trajectory of where things were going in a way most Western commenters didn't.

>>18488216
They use Schmitt mostly as a lens to study liberalism, since that's mostly what Schmitt was writing about. Schmitt's own take on liberalism (and its flaws) doesn't implicate the Chinese system by contrast either. See, most liberal writing tends to contrast it with "bad" authoritarian systems, but Schmitt doesn't care about that, so for Chinese political theorists, Schmitt is like a "safe" way for them to study Western political systems. Of course they see flaws in it.

>>18488291
A related issue for Western writers is that there's very little overarching / holistic takes on China. It became very compartmentalized so a lot of books just cover some very niche little issue. Or they're just blatant propaganda written by weaponized right-wing exiles.

https://youtu.be/qdyWnQ8FGpg?t=182

>>18488270
This
this is the answer

>>18490367
I lived in China for Uni and my experiences there are what convinced me of the superiority of their system over American Capitalism.
t. American

>>18488203
And everything written by them is Chinese propaganda.
Not that hard to grasp.

>>18491839
It certainly helps there is a feeling of homogeneous spirit -- even if there is, of course, that underlying fear of the authoritarian govt.

>>18490634

you can't buy a house, it's a 99 year lease from the state

it's so weird that chinks base their whole society on something written by an old german guy

>>18491912
>Yes, problem?

>>18488291

Actual contemporary Maoists HATE China. Dengism isn't that popular among communists either.

>>18491868
That fear is also present in the US just over different stuff for different people

>>18491925
Dengism is controversial to commies because some commies are retarded. the soviet system failed and dengism has allowed to china to thrive. what is there to discuss

>>18490367
I would but mandarin is hard and all my friends are here

>>18488190
Anything by William Hinton. He's a Maoist stooge and a brilliant journalist.

>>18491933

I am not personally hostile to Dengism. I don't know enough about it, really. I think I would rather live in Cuba than China. It's hard to get a good sense of what's going on in China due to propaganda. Seems like the human rights violations and crackdown on legitimate protests are indefensible though?

>soviet system failed

Every commie I've ever spoken to doesn't uphold the Soviet Republic following Khrushchev's ascension. Ironically they're called Tankies, when a tankie is the term for Krushchev supporters.

>>18491947
if the human rights violations youre referring to are the ones in xinjiang then you've probably got a warped view in one way or another where US libhawks think
>Xi is LITERALLY Hitler and is committing genocide in xinjiang
which is just untrue and all the "data" showing that is essenitally sourced from adrien zenz who believes that he speaks directly to god and god told him to wage a personal holy war on China to help god bring about the rapture
then tankies who think
>Based China is actually allowing uyghurs to thrive and theres no repression outside what is absolutely necessary to stop the separatist movement
which is also a retarded thing to believe because there is a brutal police crackdown but whatever prison theyre throwing people in is still not as bad as the US prison system or what we do to "foreign threats" which is either kill outright or torture them at a blacksite
so in the grand schemes of "states violating human rights" china is obviously bad but nowhere near as bad as the great satan

Krushchev didnt exist in a vacuum and their reactive economic policies were shit but yea

>>18492011
Good post. Listen to this anon.

>>18492011

You're just assuming what I think. I don't believe there's a genocide going on, but definitely human rights violations. Forced detentions without evidence is a human rights violation.
>not as bad as the US prison system
The fucking Gulags weren't as bad as the US prison system, what's your point?

>>18492026
Just clearing things up since you werent very specific

>>18492011
>>18492026
No fucking way that the gulags or the shit they have in China is better than the country club "prisons" present in america

>>18492092
amerimutt delusion

>>18492092
>the country club "prisons" present in america
Google prison rape in America

>>18492092
Bernie Madoff went to a country club prison. Martha Stewart went to a country club prison, but the majority of prisons aren’t what you imagine them to be. Oh and now we have for profit prisons. Those could be all kinds of nightmares.
Don’t be a fool. We’re living in a security state.

>>18488216
Holy cringe.

A chinese glowie just defected to America. Imagine how bad things must be.

>>18492092
We use solitary confinement for minor infractions in prisons which is an extreme form of torture that does irreparable damage to the brain

>>18492092

Imagine being this much of a clown. The only prisons surpassing those in America are in US backed fascist regimes.

>>18488190
Can't believe nobody's mentioned Wang Huning yet.

communists and nazis really are two sides of the same coin arent they lol

>>18492305
Yes, but that’s why some of us have to continually point out the obvious fact that the USSR wasn’t communist.
lol

>>18492171
Well go right ahead and do that.

>>18492305
>communists and nazis really are two sides of the same coin arent they lol
>>18492314
>Yes, but that’s why some of us have to continually point out the obvious fact that the USSR wasn’t communist.

>>18492323
Yeah, it is a CIA talking point

>>18492305
No. Liberals and fascists are two sides of the same coin.

>>18492344
And why liberals and and China are both practicing capitalism

>>18488383
Xi Jinping is a moderate to be sure. Neo-maoists and a working class movement is still needed to make the transition to socialism in China imo. As Chinese productive forces now equal the capitalist west, the need for the Liu-Deng line everywhere should be relaxed, moving past 996/995 work hours and towards 4day weeks and state controlled automation lead by SASAC.

>>18492487
>automation
I have doubts, seems like they want to outsource all their manufacturing to the African continent.

>>18491925
I think Dengism is actually closer to Orthodox Marxism than most anarchists or MLMs believe. It is revisionist to have the 'Revolution against Kapital' as Gramsci would call it, before the necessary bourgeois revolutions. Leninist tried to make it work but failed in the USSR, Dengism is trying to make the revolution being backwards hold through fairly desperate means I suppose

>>18492500
True. The reason the automation scare tactics are a ploy to keep ppl from unionizinv in the west is b/c automation is both too expensive/capital intensive/frail for a capitalist labour process to bother with. But Marxist state owned banks and industry I think can do automation for the benefit of workers in maybe 50-100 years imo. Africa is an ongoing experiment though

Which is the best school and department to study contemporary China in Canada?

>>18488216
Same garbage shill thread with the same garbage shill books.

>>18492305
>>18492314
>why yes I am 14 how could you tell

>>18492350
Because the most powerful military coalition in the world, NATO, violently enforces the "free market" on countries that don't participate like the soviet union, yugoslavia, DPRK, venezuela, Iran, etc.
This is why china has survived and thrived, because they maintained a marxist orthodoxy that understood capitalism better than its own proponents. This is also why vietnam has adopted the chinese model, because they dont have allies strong enough to maintain the more soviet-style communism than initially intended.

>>18488216
>Schmitt
*yawn*

>>18492171
America vs. America is interesting because it's a senior Chinese guy's take on America, so you can learn some things about Chinese communist elite opinion that way, but in a sorta refracted way.

There's a funny part where he runs across as Trot handing out communist literature in New York (in the late 80s) and everyone is ignoring her, but he's like "I gotta check this out" and they talk about socialism, and he's disappointed the Trot didn't think China was socialist. Like, man, just can't get a break... also there was really no reason for Americans to get into radical politics back then. But they agreed that once the East rose to match the U.S., and there were a few more serious recessions, then there would be a market for radicals in the U.S.

>>18492531
I think there might be something to that. Marx and Engels didn't write much about China, so it feels like they're less dogmatic and more about boiling Marxism down to the basics (dialectical and historical materialism). Then there's the Leninist party structure.

July 1 is the big party anniversary celebration. They're going all out this year:

https://youtu.be/ctumOP0e2KE

Marxist TED talks:

https://youtu.be/RpzCoZvXHDM

>>18490634
Chinese home prices are also crazy, with real estate being the main vehicle for investment. I've seen explanations that it's partly that parents will fork over their life savings to get their son a home, and partly migrants owning property in their home village but not in the city where they actually live and work.

>it's the China discord slobbers all over xi's dick episode again

>>18488190
When I studied abroad in China this is the book they gave us

Governing China: From Revolution Through Reform, 2nd Edition

>>18494191
thanks

>>18492305
Oh no. IT'S BLINDING. THE SHEER INTELLECT. MY GOD.

>>18488190
>contrarian-ing yourself into liking china

enjoy the cool points why they last. your type is always the transitional figure to authoritarianism.

>idolising an arrogant & oppressive police state so culturally weak it can't survive free speech

>>18494437
>golem spawn of a bloated, dying empire trying to dunk on china

>>18494450
>fan of a country that mass produces citizens who were never alive to begin with

>>18494453
>flouridated meriborg trying to larp as a human
cute

>>18494450
PROTIP: Americans aren't the only ones who hate communist China.

>>18491848
I wonder what the Russians say. They aren't The West proper and are like weak allies of the Chinese, they probably have the best vantage point.

>>18494191
>kenneth LIeBERthAL

>>18494437
Yea, germany sucks