/lit/ - Literature

>>18484611
>not volume 1

>>18484611
Communists have the blood of a 100 million people on their hands.

And the best part is, most of them were working class

>>18485980
t. Robert Conquest

>>18485980
I don't think communism can ever work because of human nature but I also don't think Marx and Engels where evil people. It's become quite trendy in modern times to paint them, especially Marx, as being pure evil and directly responsible for the deaths that the Soviets, Chinese and other communist dictatorships caused but when you read their work it comes of as more overly idealistic than anything, especially when you take into account the fact that they lived in an era where children would work 14-hour shifts in factories until their bodies broke down.

>>18486015
>I don't think communism can ever work because of human nature
Based.

>>18486015
>>18486040
>I don't think communism can ever work because of human nature

>>18486015
>communism can ever work because of human nature
What is human nature?
>account the fact that they lived in an era where children would work 14-hour shifts in factories until their bodies broke down
We still live in that era, look at working places in Bangladesh, India and Phillipines and you'll realize that everything you own right now is made from the blood and sweat of these people.

>>18486048
I dont buy shit made in India, Bangladesh or the Philippines unless I buy it second hand. I also avoid anything assembled in China and I don't buy chocolate. It's not hard to avoid this if you take a more active role as a consumer.

>>18486044
>never been a successful communist state
>probably because someone fucked it up

>>18486065
USSR during 30-40s? China during the Cultural Revolution? Cuba? North Korea for a time was considered better than South Korea for a majority of its existence.
Communism works.

>>18486065
If by "successful communist state" you mean "state that has achieved a communist (classless, moneyless, stateless, etc.) society" then that's obviously true, but plenty of states have advanced the status of the working classes substantially under the banner of Marxism-Leninism.

>>18486048
>what is human nature
In metamorphoses Ovid describes the race of humans who came before us as a mix of dirt and the blood of monsters.
The OT has us as a fallen species who went against God’s will.
The truth is something like that to me. Human beings are capable of knowing something is wrong, either to themselves or others, and doing it anyway.

I haven’t read the manifesto, so correct me if I’m wrong, but it seems from what I’ve heard that one of the underlying presuppositions of communist thinking is that a human being is a perfectible creature. That we are shaped by systems, so if the perfect system was set up, perfect people would be produced. (In this context, perfect as applied to people means productive, cooperative, content towards their society)

So when I say communism wouldn’t worm because of human nature, I don’t mean to say that a communism couldn’t be implemented in a reasonably functional way; I more mean it as a communist state would be just as corrupt as a capitalist one

>>18486098
>>18486099
See my response immediately below. Forgot to tag you

Watch me refute all communist arguments past, present and future with a single word:

Dilate.

>>18484611
We actually have dozens of great books, but I see what you’re going for OP. Very nice.

>>18485980
>Le troll face
Just passing along liberal propaganda for the State Department again. For free. Good job, liberal.

>>18486133
No one wants to hear about your fetish, boy.

>>18486144
Dilate, boy.

>>18486127
"Humans are perfectible" is a much more extreme claim than "humans are shaped by systems" (I don't know how anyone could seriously argue against the latter), so I wouldn't conflate them.
>perfect as applied to people means productive, cooperative, content towards their society
This is a bit vague, but many people satisfy these criteria not only under socialist states but even under capitalist ones (as well as in societies with other modes of production, e.g. feudalism). I don't think any communist earnestly believes that every human being would have flawless character under communism, but could the large majority of people be decent? That's doable.

>>18486147
I don’t have the parts you’re looking for. Shoo

>>18486155
>but could the large majority of people be decent? That's doable.
I agree with this. Problem is when I’m talking with communist I can never tell if I’m talking to a utopian or not. That’s why I try and start the conversation by establishing a baseline common understanding of human nature.

I do not doubt an effective communist state could be set up. But I don’t think it would be intrinsically more moral than a capitalist one.
A communist state would produce more equity
A capitalist one would produce more quantity
Both are going to have their unique virtues and vices, and both states are going to have to wrestle with corruption, because at the end of the day a state is made up of people, and people are inherently corrupt

>>18486140
The six million was also state department propaganda. Hitler was a good boy and dindu nothing

>>18486044

>>18486501
With all of our knowledge on the internment camp structure, we can say without a doubt the number of Jewish internees who were intentionally killed during the course of the war: zero.

>>18485980
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of_major_famines_in_India_during_British_rule
As if liberal imperialism is any better

>>18486015
>I don't think Capitalism can ever work because of human nature
>t. Brainlet feudal Lord in the 12th century.

>>18486127
Reminder that Israeli's Kibbutz worked for decades.
Other than that, about that average argument.

(above than average argument)

>>18487048
Better than this, imagine thinking that bolshevism was anything else than state Capitalism.

>>18485980
Original and comedic gold