/lit/ - Literature

And as always, here's the chart.

Recently I watched Scorsese's remake of "Cape Fear" and I came across a line that was taken from a 17th century Silesian German poet Angelus Silesius. I've been thinking about buying this book since. Have you read it Krautbros? Is it any good? Post more books and authors from the 1500-1700 period in Germany, I think it's underappreciated

Is there any source for german ebooks in particular. I can't find the ones I'm looking for on either libgen or zlib.

>>18484083
Zeno.org

>>18484083
Zeno and Gutenberg. Many books that were written before 1940 are also on Amazon Kindle for free.

>>18484042
What's the best translation for this?

>>18484074
Abraham a Sancta Clara is someone you might want to look into. An excerpt from his Traktat on the pest in Vienna.

O Mensch laß dirs gesagt seyn / laß dirs klagt seyn / schrey es auß / vnnd schreib es auß / allen / alles /allenthalben / Es muß gestorben seyn / nicht vielleicht / sonder gewiß. Wann sterben / ist nicht gewiß; wie sterben / ist nit gewiß; wo sterben / ist nicht gewiß; aber sterben ist gewiß.

Auff den Frühling folgt der Sommer / auff den Freytag folgt der Samstag / auff das dreye folgt das Viere / auff die Blüe folgt die Frucht / auff den Fasching folgt die Fasten / ist gewiß / auff das Leben folgt der Todt / Sterben ist gewiß.

Leben vnd Glaß / wie bald bricht das /
Leben vnnd Graß / wie bald verwelckt das /
Leben vnd ein Haaß / wie bald verlaufft das.

Das Leben ist allein beständig in der Unbeständigkeit / vnd wie ein Blat auff dem Baum / auff dem Wasser[19] ein Faumb / ein Schatten an der Wand / ein Gebäu auff dem Sand / sich kan rühmen geringfügiger Beständigkeit / noch minder darff ihm zumessen das menschliche Leben.

Klopf mir bey Leib nicht / wann ich dir werde folgende Wort vor der Thür singen: Heut roth / morgen todt / heut Ihr Gnaden / morgen gnad dir GOTT /heut Ihr Durchleucht / morgen ein todte Leich / heut allen ein Trost / morgen tröst ihn GOtt / heut kostbahr / morgen ein todten-Bahr / heut huy / morgen pfuy.

I‘m about to read Kleist‘s collected letters. Wish me luck

>>18484086
>>18484092
I know of Zeno and Gutenberg, but zlib basically has all of them too. They literally source the same versions from those sites.
I was hoping for more recent books. Around the early twentieth century or even just slightly more obscure books that can't be found on Zeno or Gutenberg.
Maybe there is no source for this. Just thought I'd ask before I give up on it.

>>18484112
I haven't read it in translation myself. I've heard on a podcast that both of the recent translations that came out in 2018, the one by Michael Inwood and the other by Terry Pinkard are better than the Miller translation that you posted in your pic.(I think they said the Inwood is slightly better, but it really doesn't make much of a difference).
There's just a giant difference in price between the recent ones and the Miller one. If you wanna buy a physical copy you're probably still want the Miller one just because of that. It's also not the end of the world since a lot of previous secondary literature will reference the Miller one as it was the standard for a long time.
Or just go to the library for the new ones.

>>18484046
Is Tyll actually any good?

>>18484142
I get my obscure stuff from archive dot org and google books. Some more obscure stuff can be downloaded from digital university libraries (and sites like the Münchener Digitalisierungszentrum for example)

>>18484142
I mean what's the best german translation

>>18484173
I don't know, I've only ever read it in Brazilian Portuguese. I don't like reading books in translation, especially philosophical works.

>>18484161
>archive dot org
this, archive.org is a treasure trove

>>18484173
Read the original print edition

>30+°
>kein bock zu lesen weil mir so ungemütlich ist
>tfw es wird mit den jahren nur noch heißer werden

Asking about the act 2 Valkyrie dialogue between Brunnhilde and Wotan because no one replied in the thread:

There was a thread a couple of days ago about this scene, saying "a remarkable discussion of the concept of the self as it was understood in nineteenth century German thought. As such it forms the metaphysical heart of the whole opus, one of the most philosophically sophisticated entries in the entire Western canon." Someone posted this scene:

https://youtu.be/ZiqkO2upJKI?t=5042

but the thread died before I could respond. I think I was filtered as I didn't understand anything of what was being said, for example how does it relate at all to Fichte's and Hegel's conception of the self, why is it important that it's "more of a monologue than a dialogue" because Brunnhilde is the will of Wotan, etc.? The words seem as schizophrenic as the production.

>>18484042
Currently in the process of translating Trakl, mostly to help my own writing ability and for fun, any other German expressionist poets that are quite unknown?

>>18484042
>>18484206
I'm currently eating ice cream and reading Wieland. Quite comfy.

Asking about the act 2 Valkyrie dialogue between Brunnhilde and Wotan because no one replied in the thread and an anon said it's better understood in German:

There was a thread a couple of days ago about this scene, saying "a remarkable discussion of the concept of the self as it was understood in nineteenth century German thought. As such it forms the metaphysical heart of the whole opus, one of the most philosophically sophisticated entries in the entire Western canon." Someone posted this scene:

https://youtu.be/ZiqkO2upJKI?t=5042

but the thread died before I could respond. I think I was filtered as I didn't understand anything of what was being said, for example how does it relate at all to Fichte's and Hegel's conception of the self, why is it important that it's "more of a monologue than a dialogue" because Brunnhilde is the will of Wotan, etc.? The words seem as schizophrenic as the production.

>>18484206
I got my air conditioning running and already wrote 1700 words. Going for 7000 today. Meanwhile reading Arthur Gordon Pym. The Arno Schmidt translation is wonderful.

>>18484158
>Is Tyll actually any good?
i wondered the same.
has anyone here actually read it?

>>18484364
>>18484158
A female normie friend of mine read it and didn't enjoy it too much. So I guess it's ok.

>>18484158
it's okay, at least it's better than "Die Vermessung der Welt"

>>18484074
Simplicissimus by Hans Jakob Christoffel von Grimmelshausen
Insel Felsenburg by Johann Gottfried Schnabel, it's from the 1730s but it's great

>>18484042
What's the best Kraut translation of Homer?

>>18484810
Johann Heinrich Voß, without a doubt.

>>18484828
I know it's the "Goethe translation", but the last time I tried to look into this it was also clear that it's outdated with respect to contemporary research in Homer and more importantly translation standards.
I guess I'm more interested in which one of the newer ones is best.

>>18484810
i bought the schadewaldt one
not sure if it's good though

>>18484946
>i bought the schadewaldt one
Me too. It's good, but I still prefer Voß.

>>18484042
Was ist das beste Stilbuch fürs Schreiben?

>>18484206
Since when do germans need A/C? You have become weak.

>>18484265
>reading Wieland
same. Reading Agathon as my first Wieland and it's comfy.

I remember a meme about it with Klaus Kinski on the set of Fitzcarraldo - does anyone have it?

>>18485574
Agathon is great, I like how the narrator is always commenting what's happening.

>>18485715
kek, thanks. Upon seeing that I spontaneously decided to buy the book actually.
I'm somewhat reminded of Joseph und seine Brüder, which I read pretty much a year ago. Obviously the Rahmenhandlung is reminiscent, but also the running-on sentences; the Detailtreue and sophistication (not at all in the sense in the original sense that is used in the book); the subtle irony that the narrator employs - it reads very leicht von der Hand, in a very enjoyable way.

>>18484046
Has anyone read any books from this chart? Are they good? Where should I start?

>>18487053
What type of book are you looking for?

>>18487734
Just something to start, I haven't read that many books in German yet.

>>18484306
Thanks for nothing Germans.

>>18484125
>everyone has to die, no really
>don't know where don't know when, but you have to die eventually, no doubt about it
>today you're red, tomorrow you're dead, oh my, we all have to die
German poetry is so primitive compared to the rest of the world, it's embarrassing.

>>18487836
Steppenwolf is a good starter book.

>>18489872
This poem isn't the most profound I've ever read, but you have to see it in historical context. Imagine the plague raging through your city and when you look out of your window you see dead bodies piling up. Of course the poetry is gonna be influenced by this experience. Same with poetry from the time of the 30 Years War. Take for example this sonnet by Gryphius, one of the most famous German poems:

Du sihst/ wohin du sihst nur Eitelkeit auff Erden.
Was dieser heute baut/ reist jener morgen ein:
Wo itzund Städte stehn/ wird eine Wiesen seyn/
Auff der ein Schäfers-Kind wird spielen mit den Herden.

Was itzund prächtig blüht/ sol bald zutretten werden.
Was itzt so pocht vnd trotzt ist morgen Asch vnd Bein/
Nichts ist/ das ewig sey/ kein Ertz/ kein Marmorstein.
Itzt lacht das Glück vns an/ bald donnern die Beschwerden.

Der hohen Thaten Ruhm muß wie ein Traum vergehn.
Soll denn das Spiel der Zeit/ der leichte Mensch bestehn?
Ach! was ist alles diß/ was wir vor köstlich achten/

Als schlechte Nichtigkeit/ als Schatten/ Staub vnd Wind;
Als eine Wiesen-Blum/ die man nicht wider find’t.
Noch wil was ewig ist/ kein einig Mensch betrachten!

It's also about evanescence and decay, also vanity, "Vanitas" being one of the leading motives of baroque literature.

>>18489642
You will never be Aryan, now back to >>>/pol/

>>18488483
Don't expect any germanon to visit 4chan during the european fußball championship. This is one of the few events when even social outcasts are invited to parties.
Lits and pollacks alike, are afk now.

>>18484042
I have not read anything for fun in months because of a German literature class. Now it feels like I've forgotten how to read for fun.
>t. Germanistik student in Denmark

any of you lot speak Northern dialect? I'm doing Deutschstunde now, and there's this one dude who speaks in Platt.

At one point he says, to a grieving husband
> du, lot die man Tied, min Jong

And although I've been able to parse out most of what the dude has blathered to this point, I have no fucking clue what "lot die man Tied" could be about.

>>18490583
>This is one of the few events when even social outcasts are invited to parties.
i didn't get invited anywhere so my conclusion is that you must be lying

>>18490606

There is an old saying in Stormarn:
>Lot di man Tied is ok een Walzer
A literal translation to high-german would be:
>Lass dir mal Zeit, ist ok beim Walzer.
Literally in english:
>Let yourself (for once) time, is okay at Walzer.

I'm sure you know what this means now. They do not exclusively use it for Walzer (the dance). They use this saying in every situation that demands to slow down for once. I translated "man" to "for once" as this "man/mal/mol" delivers this feeling in this sentence a bit.


Now your sentence:
>Du
(YOU)
>let di man Tied
give yourself (for once) some time
>min jong
my boy

>>18490722
Badass. Thanks loads.

>>18490583
>>18490661
Germans since the beginning have had a strange infatuation with soccer.

>>18490583
You underestimate the level of outcast I'm on.

>>18484046
wtf is this chart.
There should be a chart for each time period..

>>18490974
Make some charts then, there are far too few German charts anyway

>>18491023
thats the thing, i would like to contribute but i cant be arsed to do a whole chart on my own.

>>18484842
The Kurt Steinmann one is supposedly very good. I read his translation of Prometheus bound and he strikes me as a great translator. Only downside is, that his edition of the Ilias costs 100 €.

What are some good recent german books and writers?
So I far my reading list is:
>Walter Moers Zamonien novels
>Heinz Strunk's Goldene Handschuh

>>18490552
Austrian Lieder with their strategy of ribald Humor against the horrors of the plague (like der liebe Augustin) run circles around this grotesquely childish babble by santa Clara.
And Shelley wipes his ass with Gryphius when it comes to vanity.

The German character simply lacks a level of human depth that can be found in almost all other cultures. This lack enabled them to organize the holocaust so efficiently.

>>18491037
So you would _not_ like to contribute.

>>18491142
You just posted cringe on multiple levels anon

>>18484228
Alright I'll try to broaden my question then, any obscure or underrated German poets (preferably 20th century) in general?

>>18491181
Don't know about obscure, but:
Theodor Däubler (Das Nordlicht), Ernst Stadler, Carl Spitteler (Olympischer Frühling)

>>18491181
Robert Walser isn't obscure, but definitely underrated. I like both his poems and his prose.

>>18491181
If you want obscure and 20th century try authors from 33 to 45. They are not read or taught today anymore, but there are some great ones. Agnes Miegel comes to mind.

>>18491157
A German would think so, yes. But they lack Humor and soul, so who cares as long as they build nice cars.

>>18491142
Where are you from lad?

>>18491212
>>18491223
>>18491268
Thank you.

I started learning German on my own 3 years ago but only did earnestly for about 1 year.. Just get stuck in intermediate hell and I stop looking at it for months

How did you anons do it?

>>18491761
German is my native language and I thank God everyday for it.
That being said I know what you're talking about it, I had the same problem with French. At that intermediate state immersion is key. Listen to German music, watch German videos, read German books. Or even better, get a German friend to talk to. Hellotalk is a great tool for that. I escaped intermediate hell by visiting France and staying there for two weeks. It's amazing how fast you can learn a language when you have to.

>>18491835
As much as ESLs lament about not knowing English natively, at least they're used to genders, cases, and other grammatical features.

Thanks for the advice. What level is your French at now? Do you read in French?

>>18489872
>>18491142
The German Romantics are the only poets worthy of the Greeks. If you want to have a nationalistic shitposting contest go to /int/.

>>18492246
German romanticism is probably the peak of literature, if not art as a whole. Novalis, E.T.A. Hoffmann, Eichendorff, Tieck, Hölderlin etc. are incredible and their critiques of industrial society and materialism is more relevant than ever.

Bump for Deutschland

Bümpf für Deutschland

>>18490773
This is a flat-german dictionary. But it is still in the making.
https://www.platt-wb.de/

Hey /lit/eutons

Im trying to learn german, however it looks that I am light years ahead of speaking it properly and even more to master it. Can someone calm my nerves to not to give up?

I am brazilian (sadly) and I have been living in a certain region of Bavaria for 1 year already and I am studying german 3x a week, but when I start to speak on your language with locals they soon prefer to change it to english (I guess out of pity for my shitty performance). Can someone calm my paranoia or should I just give up? I have dated a russian girl and she said that its the same of someone trying to speak russian, they will never learn and should just not try.

>>18495117
Just gotta git gud