/lit/ - Literature

Yes I have read them both.

It is quite concerning indeed that pseudo-esoteric underworld of Guénon’s time has now mushroomed/fully blossomed, and is now/has infiltrated the global power elite and organizations such as United Nations, WHO etc. (As documented by Lee Penn in his False Dawn)

http://www.leepenn.org/FalseDawn_np.pdf

We already entering soon the period when the new coming new religion will be established. Alice Bailey anticipated the "Externalization of Hierarchy" to occur in 2025, when the Seven Rays/Seven Adepts (that Guénon also deals in Theosophy: History of a Pseudo-Religion) will make their presence in the physical / world stage openly. Time will tell.

Maybe it will be some sort of Galactic Federation of Light/Ashtar Sheran type of Ufo-Maitreya World Teacher.

If one reflects that these false Messiahs have never been anything but more or less unconscious instruments in the hands of those who have raised them up, and if one looks at the series of attempts made by the Theosophists, one is led to think that these are no more than trials, experiments which will be renewed in various forms until success is achieved. In the meantime, these efforts always have the result of troubling some minds. We do not believe moreover that the Theosophists, any more than the occultists and the spiritists, have the strength to succeed in such an enterprise by themselves. But behind all these movements is there not something more fearsome, of which their leaders perhaps do not themselves know, and of which they are in their own turn merely the instruments? We merely raise this question without seeking to resolve it here.” (René Guénon, Theosophy: History of a Pseudo-Religion, tr. by Alvin Moore et al., Sophia Perennis, 2001, pp271–272).

When Guénon cited “Alcyone and Theosophy,” he was referring to the promotion of Jiddu Krishnamurti as the coming World Teacher by the Theosophical Society in the early 1920s; “Alcyone” was the Theosophical movement’s nickname for Krishnamurti.

Aleister Crowley wrote of the matter:
>The Black School has always worked insidiously, by treachery. We need then not be surprised by finding that its most notable representative was the renegade follower of Blavatsky, Annie Besant, and that she was charged by her Black masters with the mission of persuading the world to accept for its Teacher a negroid Messiah (1). To make the humiliation more complete, a wretched creature was chosen who, to the most loathsome moral qualities, added the most fatuous imbecility. And then blew up! (Quote from Magick Without Tears)

This quote is from Crowley's essay "The Black Messiah"
>“White men and women must choose between these alternatives: Will they yield, content to be the black man’s slave, after having been his master? or will they stand to, and reply by an energetic spiritual reaction, which will restore the threatened equilibrium of the races?

>The white champion has appeared, He who, under the aegis of the Spiritual Masters of the planet, has proclaimed the Law of Thelema, the Law of Love, comprehended and directed by Will: the Law which bids each man pursue the proper orbit of his destiny, and develop himself around his own true centre of Light, will bring back welfare to his own race, and establish Peace with Victory upon the Earth.”

Leadbeater (sitting in the center of the picture) was also a convicted homosexual pederast who joined/co-formed the Liberal Catholic Church. He was the main teacher of Krishnamurti/Alcyone.

Guenon himself was probably counter-initiation, since he and his Sufi teacher Ivan Agueli taught false doctrines about Sufism.

Guenon's initiators and teachers into Advaita broke off all contact with him when he published The King of the World.

Why? We may never know for sure. But they probably realized he was counter-initiation.

Stop spamming this pseud.

It's ironic that Guenon's own sanskit teacher thought his ideas about Hinduism were flat out wrong.

In actuality, Hinduism itself refutes Guenon.

Another "enlightened" being, also spent his youth working in the library of the homosexual pederast C.W Leadbeater

This man was called U.G Krishnamurti (who should be confused with the Theosophical Messiah Jiddu Krishnamurti)

U.G Wrote/talked of Leadbeater:
>That Summer, U.G. worked in C. W. Leadbeater's personal library, rearranging his books for almost three months. He had always wondered how Leadbeater wrote about the past lives of Krishnamurti published under the title, Lives of Alcyone. When U.G. looked at the collection of books Leadbeater had in his personal library, he said to himself, 'He has read all the ancient histories of practically every civilization in the world. No wonder he could fit Krishnamurti's past lives into these histories.' That confirmed his skepticism about Leadbeater's powers of clairvoyance which he was credited with by the members of the Theosophical Movement. As a child U.G. sat in front of Leadbeater every day expecting that he would clairvoyantly see some spiritual potential in him. To his disappointment, Leadbeater never showed any such recognition.

It might be good thing that Leadbeater never showed any interest in U.G, considering his sexual abuse towards male minors

>Leadbeater helped us to see the other worlds to which we also belong, the worlds invisible and intangible. Our citizenship is also in Heaven. The unseen world is only an expansion of that which is seen. There is one more contribution of his. At the time of the inauguration of the Theosophical Society the adepts did not use the phrases 'The inner Government of the world', 'The Ideas of Manu, the Bodhisattva and the Logos'. These were all later revelations. These were elaborated by the investigations of Annie Besant and C.W.Leadbeater from whom we also heard of the Monad, the Group Soul, etc.

>It is said that the Maha-Chohan has given, as it were, a charter for the work of the Theosophical Society, when he said: 'The Theosophical Society was chosen as the cornerstone, the foundation, of the future religions of humanity.' Shall we not see that day? The world needs Theosophy. The forces of the world are with us, the times and the spirit of the age are with us and I have no doubt the truths of Theosophy which insist on a quest more than on a creed would enable us to join the pursuit of the ideal.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rna3QrudAO0

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/U._G._Krishnamurti

>Uppaluri Gopala Krishnamurti (9 July 1918 – 22 March 2007) was an Indian speaker who questioned the state of spiritual enlightenment.
>He rejected the very basis of thought and in doing so negated all systems of thought and knowledge. Hence he explained his assertions were experiential and not speculative – "Tell them that there is nothing to understand."

Typical annihitionalist, physical enlightenment counter-initiatic Zen jargon

Reminder that the guy who promotes annihilationism and believes he achieved permanent unity with the Absolute sits on 4chan 24/7 spamming his threads.

Is this the fruit of advaita? To be a complete schizo online and do nothing else with your life?

Enough is enough of this garbage.

We NEED 50 Guenon threads every day.

>>18464099
Thank you for bumping my thread

>>18464092
>Is this the fruit of advaita? To be a complete schizo online and do nothing else with your life?

Exactly. Hindus are cool, but I mean, really? do you want to be some homeless idiot?

>>18464099
>>18464092
>noooooo we need 100s of threads with less than 20 replies where no meaningful conversation takes place at all.
Out of this sacred thread now hylic.

>>18464025
Do you have a pdf of Charles Upton's book "Vectors of the Counter-Initiation"? I can't find it online.

>>18464505
I have only a physical copy of said book. It's not that different from System of Antichrist and it has some Uptonian boomer nonsense, I think he quotes some stupid poetry in the pages. You're not missing much in my opinion. Read Lee Penn's "False Dawn" that is much more informative and more well researched

>>18464505
>>18464530
This. Just stick with system of the antichrist. Everything in vectors is covered there.

>>18464530
>>18464582
Alright, what about Cracks in the Great Wall? Is there any different information?

>>18464096
Fuck off troon
Guenon is interesting to talk about. Contribute to discussion or fuck off and dilate

>>18464505
>>18464530
Pic related is from the book. Gives you idea what I am talking about

Upton seems a bit senile in this book, he remembers his old degenerate hippie days and drug tripping and then recites some hippie/beatnik poetry he made back in the day (probably high on drugs) etc.

You're not missing much, I actually felt a bit disgusted reading this book. Upton is otherwise a bad author, which has good ideas occassionally, but 50% of the time he writes/speaks total unnecessary jargon remiscent of Frithjof Schuon poetic nonsense. Sadly, not many traditionalist authors have been able to mimic Guénon's lucidity and insight when it comes to writing.

>>18464591
I also have Cracks in the Great Wall, I think 70% to 80% (?) is covered in System of Antichrist?

It's extremely short book, you should not waste your money on it, like you can read it in less than a hour I think. I would spend my money on Jacques Vallée's research, the "Cracks in the Great Wall" by Upton feels like a fucking scam considering how short treatise it is and it's basically just repeating stuff / insight / research made by Valleé with a Perennialist twist.

>>18464606
>>18464619
Alright, I am just buying: "Messengers of Deception", "The System of Antichrist" and "False Dawn".

Guenon's seething jeremiads against modernity are simply that. How you can systematize them and regard him like some sage is beyond me. His ultimate solution was to emigrate somewhere that religious hierarchy still mattered to people. But who knows. If Houellebecq's France becomes a reality then Guenon may see interested readers outside of the overpoliticized internet fringe that can't shut up about him.

>>18464634
I've been thinking buying this book for a while
http://www.sophiaperennis.com/books/eschatology/yuga/

But Marty seems like a similar boomer to Upton, and I honestly don't want to read some nonsense written by some Californian Boomer who just repeat Guénonian insights through some sort of American lense

>>18464530
>Read Lee Penn's "False Dawn"
Just have a look at a pdf of it right now, looks impressive in the detail

>>18464634
If you wanna read a history of some very fucked up counter-initiation cult I can recommend this book too. This is like a blueprint for your own New Age pseudo-Occult organization

Fascination with Sirius star, mass suicides in Canada, France and then gasoline burning their temples, similar to the American Solar Lodge who had their temples destroyed in extreme firestorm. "Astral Masters" also manifesting

Here is a good documentary about counter-initiation at work and what madness went on:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w2KrCctV8V0

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Order_of_the_Solar_Temple

I think this is like the logical end game of all counter-initiatory organizations. Suicide, mass deaths and extreme explosions and brainwash cults

>>18464722
What do you think of the Order of the Nine Angles? Seems to be clearly part of the counter-initiation to me but not necessary something special, just a counter-initiatory group among many other I guess.

>>18464654
Try to find a pdf first.

>>18464752
I think it's your typical Left Hand Path organization, but I have not looked too deep into it.

There has been speculation that ONA has elements are reminiscent of the Process Church of the late 1960s and 1970s that was extremely counter-initiatic.

But I gotta say that I have not read much about ONA, expect here and there when they have been in the news. Process Church is a different kind of beast and it was heavily connected to 60s California where many of the counter-initiation organizations operated, as even Guénon noticed that the counter-initiation were somehow drawn to California even by the 40s, 50s. The whole 60s hippie LSD age of Aquarius stuff that happened there was like the culmination of that counter-initiatic activity over there.

>>18464025
I'm just a tourist I don't really belong ITT, but can you explain what the pseudo-esoteric underworld that has fully blossomed is?

>>18464777
Pic related "blossoming"

>>18464752
obviously the spiritist stuff is counter-initiatory
however, I do like their sevenfold path stuff and general philosophy. there's no reason you can't follow their sevenfold path in a /trad/ manner.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Order_of_Nine_Angles#Initiation_and_the_Seven_Fold_Way
Read this and then think about Guenon's path in life. Very similar.
He started Catholic -> Freemasonry (and other occult circles) -> Hindu shit -> Sufism -> Immortal

>>18464772
In their documents they claim O9A started as something called the Camlad Tradition which was a pagan tradition that survived in the Wales and England boonies.

>>18464793
To me ONA seems counter-initiatory even by counter-initiatory standards.

I mean what kind of fucking deranged maniac would call
>The Grimoire of Baphomet (Dark Goddess).

Not in any Hermetic tradition, or even Masonic pulp fiction, would Baphomet be equated as some sort of Goddess, but it is a hieroglyph of alchemical union and literal hermaphrodite figure

It just seems that those guys have no idea what they are even talking about when it comes to symbolism

Dark Goddess Baphomet? That's just stupid

>>18464820
They're also glowniggers.

>>18464820
yeah that's what i'm saying too, their spiritist/occult side is cringe af.
but there are some gold nuggets in their /lit/ if you approach it from a purely philosophical angle.

>>18464820
o9a baphomet is different from masonic baphomet
o9a baphomet is the female equivalent of satan - not a troon

ah sweet! another guenonfag assembly

>>18464832
That's not wholly wrong though, but I doubt they have as good reasoning for it as some Hermeticists/Occultists

Cybele and Demeter and the Cube 729 are closely connected to the concept of "Magna Mater"


Cybele and Demeter and the Cube 729 are closely connected to the concept of "Magna Mater" or perhaps even Dark Matter that lays the foundation of material matter

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SAw4ji5ZNiI [Embed]

The Cult of Magna Mater, the Great Mother, is probably the oldest religion of all.
The earliest stone-age sculptures depict the mother- goddess, and an idol found in ...
of the cult were men who had castrated themselves in front of her image, but ...
of the goddess, which quickly got the reputation of being less religious ritual ...

Oracle of Delphi is closely connected to the Black Stone that is in turn closely connected to Saturn and Harvest through Demeter.

Most accounts locate the Delphi omphalos in the adyton (sacred part of the temple) near the Pythia (oracle)

Read Guénon's chapter The Omphalos and Sacred Stones and how it is closely connected to the Cubical Stone, the foundation of universe.

Pic related is the Cube of Cephas which is 9x9x9 = 729

Contrast this to 6x6x6 = 216

The cube of Cephas, the Oracle of Delphi, the Black Stone, the Cubical Stone

Crowley proposed that Baphomet was derived from "Father Mithras". In his Confessions he describes the circumstances that led to this etymology:

>"I had taken the name B𝖆phom𝖊t as my motto in the O.T.O. For six years and more I had tried to discover the proper way to spell this name. I knew that it must have eight letters, and also that the numerical and literal correspondences must be such as to express the meaning of the name in such a way as to confirm what scholarship had found out about it, and also to clear up those problems which archaeologists had so far failed to solve ... One theory of the name is that it represents the words βαφὴ μήτεος, the baptism of wisdom; another, that it is a corruption of a title meaning "Father Mithras". Needless to say, the suffix R supported the latter theory. I added up the word as spelt by the Wizard. It totalled 729. This number had never appeared in my Cabbalistic working and therefore meant nothing to me. It however justified itself as being the cube of nine. The word κηφας, the mystic title given by Christ to Peter as the cornerstone of the Church, has this same value. So far, the Wizard had shown great qualities! He had cleared up the etymological problem and shown why the Templars should have given the name Baphomet to their so-called idol. Baphomet was Father Mithras, the cubical stone which was the corner of the Temple."

So if this is the reasoning of ONA, they might have some counter-initiatic symbolism for it. Otherwise I call it stupid. Pic related is the Cube of Cephas.

>>18464846
It is also interesting to note in terms of Magna Mater that Crowley's own spelling of Baphomet's gematria value is that of 729, the Cube of Matter.

So perhaps ONA might be on to something in that sense as Baphomet as the "Dark Mother".

>>18464793
I also view the Sevenfold path and Guenonian thought to be complementary. Guenon says in the opening chapters of Crisis of the Modern World, that the only way for the west to survive is via the Catholic Church and by taking esoteric knowledge from our Eastern counterparts. If you want to follow o9a in a /trad/ manner, get initiated into 2 traditions (not at the same time) and participate for a few years. Then bring it back and refit it into the Catholic Tradition.

>>18464845
>"guenonfag assemblies?" those are the best threads on /lit/!

>>18464846
>>18464854
o9a can viewed more as hermeticists rather than satanists in the judeo-christian sense
they say that they use the term satanism to scare off normies and define the term 'satan' as 'against the Jewish God YHWH'

>>18464866
My counter-initiation alert is tingling.

Isn't ONA considered a terrorist organization?

>>18464870
it's not an organization though
it's a practical philosophy

i've read all the /lit/

>o9a
im out glowniggers

initiation is gatekeeping meme against paganism, Guenon was a subversive.

>>18464875
Sorry, but this thread started glowing in a way that I don't like. I usually don't stop posting, but this ONA shit is another.

>>18464880
>im out glowniggers

Gotta say that this might kill the thread pretty fast

>>18464887
read evola
>>18464888
you fags brought it up first

>>18464888
>Gotta say that this might kill the thread pretty fast

>>18464866
If counter-initiatory groups have "similarities" with valid ones, it is just because they are caricatures. Guenon's concepts of "caricature" and "parody" are perfect for such cases. And talking generally about 09A, their writings are clearly influenced by jungianism(which is part of the counter-initiation), everything they achieve is psychic, at least they admit that is also demonic, unlike other groups lol.

>>18464891
Evola gets lots of things about religion wrong and he agreed with Guenon eventually.

>>18464891
I know next to nothing about ONA. But if their reasoning for Baphomet as Dark Goddess is the same as the Cube Of Magna Mater, Crowley's spelling as Baphometr = Father Mithras = Baptism of Wisdom = 729 it would also imply a certain extreme counter-initiatic even by Evolian standards

>Julius Evola viewed the Southern races as being from the dark side that possessed a “demonic” nature, describing them as being “archaic and matter-obsessed” who were predisposed to “sacerdotal and naturalistic-pantheist religions of promiscuous vegetal and animal fertility”

This is exactly what Demeter, Cybele as Black Goddess are, and especially the Mithraic mysteries and especially the Arimanius figure of Mithraism

This is like the deepest substructure of counter-initiation, for it concerns pure Quantity, Materialism and Materia Secunda itself

Not only that, this topic GLOWS

>>18464897
>their writings are clearly influenced by jungianism
great point anon, they do talk a lot about Jung and archetypes.
however, I still think there is value in the sevenfold way and that we can refit it towards /trad/ goals.
>>18464903
bro i've already stated above that I think they're counter-initiative. i'm trying to provide some insight here since I have actually read their shit.

Anyone have the archive link for that excellent /lit/ thread on O9A ages ago?

>>18464906
>that we can refit it towards /trad/ goals
why waste time doing that when there are actual traditions around

>>18464912
because bro
getting initiated into non-Western Traditions is just a means to an end. the end is the revival of the Western Tradition

Confirmed glow thread

>>18464922
>t. CIA agent of counter tradition trying to D&C /trad/ chads

>>18464895
>using le /pol/ face on /lit/
you need to glow somewhere else, nothing to gain on this board.

>>18464916
>the end is the revival of the Western Tradition

Impossible without continous passed down lineage, it's like the Olympic fire/Olympic torch. Once the flame is extinguished it cannot be revived

In the case of Paganism, Pagan religions required traditional civilizations to thrive on.

The Hindu religion starts with Dharma and the proper Dharma is the division of Castes

In a Western society, without a caste system, to conduct proper religious Dharma would be impossible, since caste does not exist.

All proper, pagan religions also had social structures like this with priesthood, warriors etc.

One could argue:
>The gods did not change. People and culture did. They influence practitioners and world events today.

But this is wrong, for the Gods were not some sort of Sunday church worship services, but part of daily lives 24/7 and ingrained in the proper superstructure of social life itself with Divine Right of Kings, Priesthood that granted authority to the King through religious initiation and direct communion with the divine.

Without a caste system, for example, Hinduism would be impossible to conduct properly. Even the Pagan west had a caste system. This does not exist anymore. We live in a technocratic post-modern neo-catholic oligarchy.

Back in the days of Druidism, the priesthood handled the Money for example, it was considered something of a sacred duty and they were covered with religious symbols.

What you are trying to revive here is empty ritualism, false religion, counter-initiation and counter-tradition that has adopted the names of the Gods exoterically without any sort of initiatic, esoteric realm.

Yes, this is counter-initiation. West and the whole post-modern world for that matter, cannot be saved without purifying sword of Kali.

I think Varg Vikernes tried to argue for some sort of atheistic pagan revival. As to revive the Gods as "dead" symbols, Vikernes himself does not believe in supernatural/divine, and he argues that the Pagans did not believe either, it was just some sort of atheistic aestheticism

>>18464916
O9A initiation is counter-initiation, I read their works in my /pol/tard era and they claimed to have a chain of initiation from some old lady in UK or some shit like that, and that their initiatic lineage comes from ancient times. How stupid can someone be to believe that?

>>18464086
>who should be confused with the Theosophical Messiah Jiddu Krishnamurti)
Lol

Dude, I understand you have a thesis to prove but U.G. never claimed to be enlightened, even physically. He denied physical enlightenment as well.
>but denial of spiritual enlightenment IS basically the same as counter initiation!!
Okay nigger, I get what youre going for but its intellectually dishonest.

>>18464654
Glass also discusses Jacques Ellul's technique, Jean Baudrillard's hyperreality, and Frithjof Schuon at length. If you've read all of these, then you don't have to read it.

>>18464937
This, if you follow a pagan path without a proper lineage (which does not exist currently outside of the dharmic faiths), you will end up either like Varg, or pic rel

>>18464976
>Dude, I understand you have a thesis to prove but U.G. never claimed to be enlightened, even physically. He denied physical enlightenment as well.

No he didn't, he even tells some sort of "proof" of his state through descriptions like this:

>U.G. explains that thought had controlled his body to such an extent that when that control loosened, the whole metabolism went agog. Then the movement of his hands changed. They started turning backwards. 'That is why they say my movements are mudras.' Certain hormonal changes started occurring in his body. Now he didn't know whether he was a man or a woman. Suddenly there was a breast growing on the left side of his chest. It took three years for his body to finally fall into a new rhythm of its own. Here U.G. questions the value of this description for the world. Reading about it may be dangerous because people may try to mimic the outward manifestations of the process. People have a tendency to simulate these things and believe that something is happening to them.

>His friends observed swellings up and down his torso, neck and head, at those points called chakras. These swellings of various shapes and colors came and went at regular intervals. On his lower abdomen, the swellings were horizontal, cigar-shaped bands. Above the navel was a hard, almond-shaped swelling. A hard, blue swelling, like a large medallion, in the middle of his chest was surmounted by another smaller, brownish-red, medallion-shaped swelling at the base of his throat. These two 'medallions' were as though suspended from a varicolored, swollen ring—blue, brownish and light yellow—around his neck, as in the pictures of some Hindu gods. There were other similarities: his throat was swollen to a shape that made his chin seem to rest on the head of a cobra, as in the traditional images of Shiva. Just above the bridge of the nose was a white lotus-shaped swelling. All over the head the small blood vessels expanded, forming patterns like the stylized lumps on the heads of some statues of the Buddha. Like the horns of Moses and the Taoist mystics, two large and hard swellings periodically appeared and disappeared. The arteries in his neck, blue and snake-like, expanded and rose into his head.

He was a counter-initiatory cook through and through

Imagine this man, he developed fucking SWELLINGS on those places where Hindus place "chakras" on the human organism

Now imagine when priests tell you that they have developed Stigmata on their hands with proper fucking holes on their palm (despite crucifixion was not even done historically on the palms of the hands)

Am I supposed to believe this? His whole life is a fucking Thesophical caricature that culminated in his "calamity" while sitting on a lecture listening his Guru Jiddu Krishnamurti

This man is a joke, a sick stigmatist counter-initiatic hobo. Man's faith in Christ cannot be measured by the size of the holes caused by Stigmata or Chakra Swellings

>>18465006
>Now imagine when priests tell you that they have developed Stigmata on their hands with proper fucking holes on their palm (despite crucifixion was not even done historically on the palms of the hands)
This has been debunked by Dr Frederick Zugibe

>>18464976
Eh? That was about Jiddu and not UG. Anyway I always sensed something deeply counter initiatic about UG.

I mentioned the theosophical attempt at establishing Jiddu as antichrist in a previous thread. Yesterday I found out Guénon mentions their plan but simply says it should not be taken serious.

OP here, I am gonna take a walk for one or two hours and come back later to the thread. Tonight I am not going to sleep at all and read "The Spiritist Fallacy", maybe also look into the pdf "False Dawn" by Lee Penn. So let's keep the thread active until tomorrow and don't let me be alone.

>>18464777
He’a referring to New Age spiritualism basically and specifically, that New Age spiritually which is endorsed, published, funded by, and pushed by powerful organizations.

>>18465059
>Eh? That was about Jiddu and not UG. Anyway I always sensed something deeply counter initiatic about UG.

Well it is not exactly secret that we are talking about U.G in a traditionalist thread

U.G was anti-traditional, and what do I mean by that?

U.G had visions like this:
>One day, suddenly a scene presented itself to U.G. It wasn't quite a vision, nor was it a dream. It was as though it actually occurred in front of his eyes. Three sages in the middle of a big lake, with bushy beards, and submerged up to their necks, appeared in the scene. They stretched their arms toward U.G. and cried, "U.G., we are drowning, please rescue us."

>"Who are you?" U.G. asked them.

>"We are your ancestors. Hurry up and save us," they said. Then U.G. understood that they were his clan sages whose names were Atreyasa, Arjunasya and Syavasya.

>"You deserve the punishment. Drown and never rise again," said U.G. to them. Then, helpless, they drowned and the scene disappeared. U.G. said that all the visions that started occurring after his Calamity ended with this.

>How do all these strange events occur? This wasn't a fabricated story, nor was it magic. If, on the other hand, we think that U.G. somehow imagined them, we know that he never believes in such things. "If a miracle happened right in front of my eyes, I still won't believe it," says U.G.

Of course, such story should be taken with a grain of salt. One can only wonder what Pedo astral vampires he might have absorbed to his psyche by simply working at the Pedo Leadbeater's library and sitting near to him in childhood. Such contamination is comparable to associating with radioactive material without proper protective equipment

>>18465089
>>18465006

Leadbeater was also one of the first men to popularize the concept of Chakras and inserting his own weird pedo ideas to them disconnected from traditional doctrines, maybe U.G got those "swelling" ideas from Leadbeater indirectly

Pic related are Leadbeater's ideas how Chakras look like, they remind me of anuses/assholes more than something spiritual

Some people still praise this work:
https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/769394.The_Chakras

I mean most New Age stores have this book. It is written by a sick pederast individual who was a pervert homosexual pederast

>>18464937
>traditional
>starts with
lol

What is the difference between reincarnation and transmigration?

>>18464937
>the Pagans did not believe either
Just like in any other religion.
Look at Islam for instance.

>>18464049
>she was charged by her Black masters with the mission of persuading the world to accept for its Teacher a negroid Messiah
Wtf Crowley was based?? I’m confused now. I thought he was an inspiration for the occult elites who want a one-world government and one-brown humanity.

>>18465071
lmao, look at this zoomer doomer faggot

>>18465115
They're the same thing.

>>18463997
Some anon said that the Naqshbandia tariqa is counter initiatory because it doesn't go through Ali like all other sufi orders. How true is that?

>>18465138
Crowley did consider Annie Besant, Leadbeater to be controlled by Qliphothic forces.

Even in Crowley's Moonchild, Mrs. Beasant is described as one of the leaders of the Black Lodge:
>The inner circle, the fourteen men about Douglas himself and that still more
mysterious person to whom even he was responsible, a woman known only as "Annie"
or as "A.B.", were sealed to him by the direst of all bonds. Needless are oaths in
the Black Lodge; honour being the first thing discarded, their only use is to frighten
fools. But before joining the Fourteen, known as the Ghaaghaael, it was obligatory
to commit a murder in cold blood, and to place the proofs of it in the hands of
Douglas. Thus each step in sorcery is also a step in slavery; and that any man should put
such power in the hands of another, no matter for what hope of gain, is one of the
mysteries [268] of perverse psychology. The highest rank in the Lodge was called
Thaumiel-Qeretiel, and there were two of these, "Annie" and Douglas, who were alone
in possession of the full secrets of the Lodge.

Crowley also repeatedly libelled Besant as a proponent of abortion (which is partly true).

Crowley himself was extreme anti-abortionist. He considered abortion to be the most Black Magickal act possible:
>In Crowley's opinion abortion was tantamount to murder, and he derided a society that condoned it. Women he believed, should be free to decide the fate of their foetus, but he was certain that no woman, once she was outside the narrow confines of social convention, would ever want a pregnancy terminated.

This is from Crowley's Confessions:
>The Confessions: "I consider criminal abortion in any circumstances soever as one of the foulest kinds of murder. Apart from anything else, it nearly always ruins the health of the woman, when it fails to kill her. The vigour of my views on this point strengthens my general attitude on the question of sexual freedom. I believe that very few women, left to themselves, would be so vile as to commit this sin against the Holy Ghost; to thwart the deepest instincts of nature at the risk of health and Life, to say nothing of imprisonment. Yet criminal abortion is one of the commonest of crimes and one most generally condoned by what I must paradoxically call secret public opinion. And the reason is that our social system makes it shameful and punishable by poverty for a woman to do what evolution has spent ages in constructing her to do, save under conditions with which the vast majority of women cannot possibly comply. The remedy lies entirely with public opinion. Let motherhood be recognized as honourable in itself, and even the pressure of poverty would not prevent any but a few degenerate women, with perverse appetites for pleasure, from fulfilling their function. In the case of such it would indeed be better that they and their children perish." (Note his use of the term 'criminal abortion'.)

How does one know if he's gone through a counter-initiation, and what does it do to you mentally and spiritually?

>>18464965
>O9A initiation is counter-initiation
bro, i've said that multiple times already throughout this thread. The Camlad Tradition is definitely a LARP.
If you have actually read their /lit/, I am explicitly talking about their earthly and philosophical /lit/ that is interesting and useful. Not the whole dark gods shit. It is a combination of Oswald Spengler, Friedrich Nietzsche, and Adolf Hitler.
>>18464937
I never claimed the Western Tradition was the Pagan Tradition. I said above, which is written in Crisis of the Modern World chapter 1, that the Western Tradition is the Roman Catholic Tradition.
>In a Western society, without a caste system
this is true, Guenon even says that there is tradition in the Feudal system, which is essentially a caste system.

>>18465173
Kind of. They do actually go through Ali (as), via Imam Jafar al Sadiq (as), but they confusingly claim that lineage orginates to Abu Bakr (most likley because the imam married into Abu Bakr's family). I personally think they do contain the wisdom taught by Imam Ali (as) regardless of thier claims, but it would better to go via other tariqas, such as the Shadhili.

>>18464937
Tradition in the West is still alive, Muhammad

>>18465204
my correction, I forgot that the Imam was a descendent of Abu Bakr through his mother

>>18465215
>>18465197
>Roman Catholic Tradition.

I don't understand how anyone can hardly even believe that after what happened after Second Vatican Council

Doesn't the current Pope also welcome some Pache Mama idols in the Vatican these days as honored guests?

I think even Vigano says that Church is in Eclipse now and just waiting for the Antichrist to appear

>Tradition in the West is still alive, Muhammad

>>18465223
>>18465225
you've exposed yourself Muhammad
you cannot defeat Rome you filthy barbarian

>>18465233
whatever helps you manage

>>18465241
Evola lays out the superior path for Western Traditionalism
and he explicitly states that Islam is NOT the answer

>>18465115
Reincarnation implies personality and memories are preserved

>>18465241
me somewhere between the two being completely and utterly unironical and based

>>18464931
That's the Jew face version though

>>18465071
>Tonight I am not going to sleep at all and read "The Spiritist Fallacy", maybe also look into the pdf "False Dawn" by Lee Penn. So let's keep the thread active until tomorrow and don't let me be alone.

Doesn't sound too healthy. It's ok study traditionalism, counter-initiation. But you shouldn't sacrifice good night's sleep to this topic

>>18465247
>He didn't read the Sufi of Rome
ngmi. Stop being arrogant and accept the truth. Your pagan ancestors probably said the same thing about Christianity which you are defending now.
If the christian tradition was alive now you would have a chance but now it's dead. If you insist at least become orthodox which is still alive and well (at least for now).

>>18465204
>Shadhili
Thank you I will look into it.

>Come to (Western) Christianity white man

https://www.kirkkojakaupunki.fi/-/krusifiksi-eli-jeesus-ristilla-saattaa-olla-maailman-tunnetuin-kuva-aihe-mutta-se-on-muutakin-kuin-pelkka-kuva-taiteilija-ilkka-sariola-kertoo-kuinka-sita-luetaan#72299038

>Gay pride crucifix to be put on display in Finland during Maundy Thursday in Paavalinkirkko (Church of Paul)

>A vision of peace. The wolf and the lamb are in harmony, the guns are forged into plows and the rainbow flag flutters.

>It is a wonderful idea that one day our people's anger and wars will end. The rainbow flag is not only a symbol of sexual minorities but also an old symbol of peace. I thought it would be nice if one church in Finland had a permanent rainbow flag on the wall.

Angels also replaced with flies

The churches are also closed and you cannot enter there, but they are allowed to decorate these places with all sorts of degenerate Rainbow flag stuff

Jesus also seems like a blue, lifeless corpse instead of a Son of God who overcomes Death

The Artist literally says that he replaced angels with flies, probably some sort of Beelzebubian influence

>>18465350
>at least become orthodox
This. Catholicism is not just a little anti-traditional. It is ostensibly so. Who is the real clown in the picture Anon? Protip: not the one wearing makeup.

I mean people call this and that cult anti-traditional… look at this fucking shit!

>>18465350
I have read it
first of all, it is still in the realm of speculation that Evola was initiated into a sufi order. he never confirms it in the book, it is just hearsay from like two other people.
secondly, just because he was initiated into a sufi order and respects Islam, doesn't mean he believes it is the answer for the West.

http://www.juliusevola.net/excerpts/Certain_People_Still_Cherish_False_Hopes_in_Islam.html

Much of the Pagan traditions were absorbed under the cover of Catholicism. If you weren't a sandnigger, you would know this.

>>18465433
>>18465399
>>18465393

Such rituals have usually taken the forms of unruly and blasphemous masquerades, carnivals, charivaris and other enactions of the most grotesque nature from the medieval Festum Fatuorum to the processions of such beings as Perchtls and actual demonic figures who epitomise in a very real sense the potencies which belong outside or without the Divine Order, denizens of the profane realm of the ‘outer darkness’. If such ambiguous festivities and masquerades were not viewed in an entirely favourable light in pre-modern times. René Guénon defines the context and import of these unruly and demonic irruptions in traditional civilizations, speaking of those ‘special periods when, for analogous reasons, “wandering influences” were allowed to manifest themselves freely, all due precautions having been taken. In the cosmic order, these influences naturally correspond to the lower psychism in the human being…’ (R. Guénon, ‘The Significance of Carnivals’ n.12 in ‘Symbols of Sacred Science’, p143-4) The unregenerated psyche is in Islamic esoterism the satanic domain of the Nafs, the fallen soul. ‘Like the Roman Saturnalia, celebrated during the winter solstice, those carnivals usually mark the passage from the old to a new cycle. It is a period of unrestrained revelry and licence, when the most inferior possibilities of the old cycle are released, in an obvious attempt to exhaust them.

The interest and participation in the old medieval carnivals faded away in the early modern age and René Guénon has stated very truly that such events would in any case nowadays be completely pointless insofar as the entire world of late modernity, flowing inexorably netherwards in the sinister current of the Kaliyuga, is a ‘perpetual sinister carnival’ - we can likewise accurately perceive this age, in which these demonic powers of Gog and Magog surge from below through the cracks in the barrier, to be an ‘infernal hexentanz’ in which every aberration is given free rein in an abominable Saturnalia, (ruled by the malefic and afflicted Saturn of the fallen world of time and fatality who is none other than Satan) which must reify the lowest, strangest and most inferior possibilities, in which sacred symbols and vestiges of spiritual tradition are caricatured, undermined and perverted and a general inversion of primordial norms is actualised in a kind of vast ‘witches sabbath’ at the cosmic midnight of cyclical time: it is surely no exaggeration to say that modern man finds himself in a world turned upside-down, a hellish phantasmagoria presided over by the Adversary and manifested through the agencies of the Counter-Initiation and the ‘Saints of Satan, preparing the way for the veritable master of these unholy revelries, the Antichrist, Al-Dajjal.

>>18465447
>>18465458

>http://www.juliusevola.net/excerpts/Certain_People_Still_Cherish_False_Hopes_in_Islam.html
>Once again, the impression one gains is that the cycle is drawing to a close.

>Once again, the impression one gains is that the cycle is drawing to a close.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zjedLeVGcfE

>>18465477
what if I told you O9A's goal was to lay the foundations for the next cycle?

>>18465458

>>18465433
I just realized, aren't clowns an initiatic order? Like, don't you have a clown teacher who bestows the secret knowledge of clowning to you?
Is Clowning the American Tradition?

>>18465549
You tell us

>>18465484
Are you trying to sound like a fucking fed?

>>18465458
>perpetual sinister carnival
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8hyMG3b05u0

>>18465552
>When Zarathustra had spoken these words, he again looked at the people, and was silent. "There they stand," said he to his heart; "there they laugh: they do not understand me; I am not the mouth for these ears.”

>>18465447
>http://www.juliusevola.net/excerpts/Certain_People_Still_Cherish_False_Hopes_in_Islam.html
Does this article say nothing or am I missing something?

>>18465563
"Indeed, I am not the tongue for their anus." Niegzche

>>18465535

Let's see if 2025 is the true Externalization of that Hierarchy in your quote, like counter-initiator Alice Bailey proposes >>18464025

>Thus a great and new movement is proceeding and a tremendously increased interplay and interaction is taking place. This will go on until A.D. 2025. During the years intervening between now and then very great changes will be seen taking place, and at the great General Assembly of the Hierarchy - held as usual every century - in 2025 the date in all probability will be set for the first stage of the externalization of the Hierarchy. The present cycle (from now until that date) is called technically "The Stage of the Forerunner". It is preparatory in nature, testing in its methods, and intended to be revelatory in its techniques and results. You can see therefore that Chohans, Masters, initiates, world disciples, disciples and aspirants affiliated with the Hierarchy are all at this time passing through a cycle of great activity.
-Alice Bailey

It's quite parodical that the "Hierarchy" Alice Bailey talks about is the same as the 7 Rays of Theosophy/Blavatsky that Guénon deals in Theosophy: History of a Pseudo-Religion

These Seven Rays have their beginning in the Seven Ah-Hi of Blavatsky https://theosophy.wiki/en/Ah-hi
>In the Theosophical literature, the Ah-hi are the highest Dhyāni-Chohans that appear on the scale of manifestation, to become the vehicles for the expression of the Universal Mind. They are seen as the seven primordial rays emanated from the Logos, and the source of all differentiated beings as they descend into the more and more material planes. Some synonyms used for them are "Primordial Seven" and "Dhyāni-Buddhas".

The parodical thing is that this is just infra-psychic phantasist projection of Blavatsky or some outright Satanism. Most likely the Theosophian "Ah-hi" are reference to the monstrous Sanskrit Ahi that is also associated with Rahu and the Stooping Dragon

https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/%E0%A4%85%E0%A4%B9%E0%A4%BF
https://www.wisdomlib.org/definition/ahi
>Ahi (अहि) (also, Āśī) refers to a “venomous snake”, according to the Śrīmatottara-tantra, an expansion of the Kubjikāmatatantra:
>Ahi (अहि): Means ("snake"), Vritra was also known in the Vedas as Ahi
>Ahi (अहि).—m.
>(-hiḥ) 1. A snake or serpent. 2. The sun. 3. A traveller. 4. Lead. 5. The name of a demon: see vṛtrāsura. 6. A name of Rahu, the ascending node. E. āṅ prefixed to han to hurt, in Unadi affix; injuring all or every thing, the ā of āṅ is made short.

The Seven of course being nothing more than the Seven Heads of the Stooping Dragon, literal Qliphotic manifestation.
The 8th head will be of course the Blind Idiot God, The Dragon whose eighth head reigns in Daäth and crowns himself as the Bastard of Swastika. Knowledge as the Summit of Universe.

>>18465620
>The realistic point of view I felt the need to adopt in Ride the Tiger has lately led to my polemical confrontation with certain people who still cherish false hopes with regard to the current potential of 'traditional residues'.

By 'Traditional residue' he means the traces left by various esoteric orders that have left their mark but no longer function as viable gateways to initiation and the people who hope that they can be somehow revitalized. Evola doesn't think they can be as the process of 'devolution', degeneration, or the advancement of the Kaliyuga can't be halted.

>For instance, I discussed certain matters with Titus Burckhardt, who pointed to remnants of Tradition in areas outside Europe. I felt compelled to ask Burckhardt whether he was willing to acknowledge the fact that these areas, too, will fall subject to 'cyclical laws'

Here he simply points out that while there may be holdouts beyond Europe, and how they may still be viable for individual initiation, it they are subject to the same law as the now extinguished western esotericism.
He then goes on to list several non western examples an their fall to worldly forces, such as Tibet, or the limited effectiveness of more "action" based approaches, this being the divine and holy warfare as conducted by the Kamikaze pilots when faced with the mechanical efficiency of war as science.


>The world, therefore, appears to be left to its own resources. In other words, the general process of 'solidification' and deconsecration of the world limits the influence of the aforementioned powers - powers which are also difficult to measure without taking account of the sphere of action, as well as that of pure knowledge. Once again, the impression one gains is that the cycle is drawing to a close.

This should be pretty self-evident. He is discussing what he sees as the rising dark age, that what potency remains of the old traditional world, even if it can be found, is stifled by the reign of quantity. And finally a confession that he feels a sort of impending finality, a last curtain dropping over the old world.

>>18465535
>>18465458
>The interest and participation in the old medieval carnivals faded away in the early modern age and René Guénon has stated very truly that such events would in any case nowadays be completely pointless insofar as the entire world of late modernity, flowing inexorably netherwards in the sinister current of the Kaliyuga, is a ‘perpetual sinister carnival’ - we can likewise accurately perceive this age, in which these demonic powers of Gog and Magog surge from below through the cracks in the barrier, to be an ‘infernal hexentanz’ in which every aberration is given free rein in an abominable Saturnalia, (ruled by the malefic and afflicted Saturn of the fallen world of time and fatality who is none other than Satan) which must reify the lowest, strangest and most inferior possibilities, in which sacred symbols and vestiges of spiritual tradition are caricatured, undermined and perverted and a general inversion of primordial norms is actualised in a kind of vast ‘witches sabbath’ at the cosmic midnight of cyclical time: it is surely no exaggeration to say that modern man finds himself in a world turned upside-down, a hellish phantasmagoria presided over by the Adversary and manifested through the agencies of the Counter-Initiation and the ‘Saints of Satan, preparing the way for the veritable master of these unholy revelries, the Antichrist, Al-Dajjal.
Sources for these?

>>18465549
I recall Evola saying something about royal jesters and initiation in Mask and Face of Contemporary Spiritualism..

>>18465763
Hexentanz: The Sinister Masquerade of Kali-Yuga by Nigel Jackson

>>18465553

This is still the ultimate Kali-Yuga theme

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zjedLeVGcfE

>>18465763
>>18465778
If you mean sources where Guénon talks about these, it is at least in The Significance of Carnivals’ chapter in Guénon's Symbols of Sacred Science

>>18465790
The Clown Age

>>18465754
Even though I agree with Evola, he really had not worked out how to survive 'horrors' of these inferior possibilities now manifesting.

I admit it has passed like 7 years since I last read "Ride the Tiger", but the solutions he gives are some sort of Tantric transcendence and "dangerous" path of even employing drugs etc. modern possibilities so as to overcome the dissolutive influences of the age or something similar

All in all, Evola never really gave any real solutions, at least that was the impression I got by reading "Ride the Tiger"

>>18464606
>Drug-Induced Mysticism Revisited
>I was tripping with a friend
>Later I realized that he was in fact a gnome a unit of the Earth element in the system of Paracelsus
>I further realized that by dropping acid in that foested canyon by that clear stream of water we had done the equivalent of breaing into his house uninvited

Holy shit Charles Upton really must have been one the most degenerate infra-psychic hippie drug abuser. No wonder his Youtube videos give off that "acid fried my brain" -vibe, he seems really slow and out of this world

>>18465197
>It is a combination of Oswald Spengler, Friedrich Nietzsche, and Adolf Hitler.
Ok so its shit, 2 modern philosophers and an agent of the counter-initiation.

Post counter-initiation exposing documentaries

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_LEM4ZY0wfw

https://sufipathoflove.com/human-fraternity-for-world-peace-and-living-together/

Join us Brothers!

>>18465891
I agree. Although I don't think he really ever claimed to posit a strictly delineated path.
Reading his later works you get the sense of him making a gesture toward what he thinks a viable path within the Kaliyuga might take the form of.
It also appears to me that there is often a tension present in Evola's writings. At times his writing, especially when his focus is on Action and Heroism, seems to come perilously close to saying something like "Fuck it, go be heroic, if you have the right stuff maybe you will figure it out", but then it pulls back from explicitly stating anything of the kind for fear of giving the greenlight to all manner of counter-initiatory shenanigans.

>>18465970
Wait, which one is which? Is Nietzsche considered modern?

>>18465891
Evola's philosophical period was fatal for his life and probably the main reason why he died without even practicing a religion, not to mention initiation. I remember there was a passage in "Ride the Tiger" where he said that leaving the West to get initiation is losing the fight or something similar to that, a clear allusion to Guenon and the others who followed Islam. Is incredible that Evola read all of Guenon's books, believed in religion and still hold such a foolish view.
>but the solutions he gives are some sort of Tantric transcendence and "dangerous" path of even employing drugs etc.
And it wasn't even something concrete, like how do you even follow that path in practice? It is just philosophical larping. Evola is a waste of time in my opinion and everything good you can find in him is already in Guenon, that being his critique of the modern world.

>>18466040
That Sheik's face gives me the heebie-jeebies

>>18466040
>https://sufipathoflove.com/the-story-of-the-33-and-maulana-sheikh-nazim/

This Sheik seems to like the number 33 very much! I wonder why?

Fraternity of 33?

>>18466079
Cause he is based. You don't like fraternity peace and living together?

>>18466063
>And it wasn't even something concrete, like how do you even follow that path in practice? It is just philosophical larping. Evola is a waste of time in my opinion and everything good you can find in him is already in Guenon, that being his critique of the modern world.

I agree he set out nothing concrete, but I don't believe it was ever his intention. He never considered being initiated in a non European tradition to be "losing the fight" on a personal level. He simply did not believe that Islam, or even Hinduism, or Buddhism, were immune from devolution. The idea that the west can be saved by a few people with the proclivity initiating in to the esotericism of some foreign religion is silly, and it doesn't even jive with what Guenon himself wrote. The Kali Yuga takes its due, it is a cosmic process which dwarfs things like nations and cultures and men.

Evola's chief motivating interest was the question of what is to be done when there are no more legitimate Sufi orders, or Ashrams, or Taoist temples, or the like. Because, if the Yuga cosmology is indeed correct then that time will come, and what then?
Evola has no real answers to this, he has vague notions at best, but he brings this inevitable process in to focus in a manner that none of the other Traditionalist do. He points out that the dark age is here, it is going to get much worse before it gets better, that there will come a point when what light remains now is extinguished, and no one is ready for it.

>>18466048
>>18466063

Evola might have been a fatalist, he describes his injury this way:

> However, not long before the Russian occupation of the city, a bombing raid caused an injury to my spinal cord. The injury, which appeared lethal at first, caused the partial paralysis of my lower limbs.

>I thus found myself confined to hospital. Such an accident, no doubt, was not unrelated to a rule I had long chosen to follow: not to avoid, but, on the contrary, to seek dangers as a tacit way of putting fate to the test. For this very reason, in the past, I had pursued mountain climbing at dangerous altitudes. I remained faithful to this very principle during the war, when a world was crumbling and the future was shrouded in uncertainty. The accident I fell victim to, however, lent itself to no obvious explanation. Not much changed in my life following the accident, as my handicap was merely physical: aside from the practical disadvantages, and the limitations it entailed from the point of view of my profane existence, the handicap hardly bothered me, for my spiritual and intellectual work remained unaffected by the accident. In my heart, I have always thoroughly subscribed to the traditional doctrine I often quoted in my writing, which teaches that we have wished all relevant events in our life before our birth. I could not, therefore, avoid applying such a doctrine to the aforementioned event. To remember why I had wished such an accident upon myself, and to understand its most profound significance, is what truly mattered in my eyes - more than 'recovery' itself (something I cared little about). (Besides, as I saw it, had I been capable of grasping the 'memory' of such a wish by the light of knowledge, I would no doubt also have been capable of removing the physical handicap itself - if I had wished to do so.) To this day, however, the fog which clouds my memory has yet to lift. For the time being, I have come to adapt myself to the circumstances. Occasionally, I am humorously led to believe that it is gods who might be responsible for the situation, having used a little too much force when playing with me.

This might have been 'cope' of his, but it does speak of certain fatalism mindset of Evola. "Everything happens for a reason" or similar. This is why Evola might have been also attracted to tantrism and other "evolutionist" spiritual practices, perhaps in a sense that truly a royal/non-degenerate heroic vira can come through all trials and overcome even the most inferior possibilities uncorrupted

>>18466120
Isn't this sort of thinking dangerous so as to degenerate to some sort of Sabbatean Frankist Shabbetai Tzevi type of Messianic accelerationism so as to cause so much 'sin' so as to cause "End Times" that the Messianic age can begin?

But accelerationism in a sense that one would want to advance the dissolutive influences of Kali-Yuga?

>>18466143
Sure. But this would be a misinterpretation of the doctrine of the Yugas. They can't be forced to be any more or less, faster or slower, than they are.

Any doctrine is at danger of being degenerated and misused, but their validity isn't determined by their potential for misinterpretation and abuse. If this were the case would there be anything at all left?

>>18466120
>Evola's chief motivating interest was the question of what is to be done when there are no more legitimate Sufi orders, or Ashrams, or Taoist temples, or the like. Because, if the Yuga cosmology is indeed correct then that time will come, and what then?
Titus Burckhardt refuted this view of Evola in his review of Ride the Tiger, that there will be no authentic initiatory groups in the future, because it is said that they will become more rare, but never go extinct. And there were authentic initiatory groups in the time of Evola(as they are also now), or do you think that Guenon's initiation was invalid? That would be hilarious.
Also, this is not about seving the West or the world. Is about saving your soul, this is what all religions are teaching. Stop thinking in terms of politics or groups. What about you? The Prophets came for YOUR salvation. Initiation is about YOUR spiritual realization. Are you gonna do something about it or are you going to end up in the infernal states of the being(hell), since that is also a part of traditional teachings...

>>18466166
But isn't this in direct contradiction what Guénon says when it comes to counter-initiation, in Reign of Quantity Guénon says the “agents of the Counter-Initiation” are working actively to widen the cracks in the Great Wall consciously and deliberately.

Same way, the Qur’an says that some of the Jinn are unbelievers and some are Muslims. In other words, the kafir Jinn, with Counter-Initiatic sorcerers are working to break down the Great Wall from their side as well.

When the Wall finally crashes, our world will end and Gog and Magog surge from below

The symbolic order of the universe in a traditional civilization is mirrored in such structures as the house, village and city which were invariably walled enclosures, the ‘Great Wall’ which defends cosmos from chaos, dividing the sacred realm from the ‘outer darkness’ of the profane and infernal forces of disorder and dissolution

>>18466186
>Titus Burckhardt refuted this view of Evola in his review of Ride the Tiger, that there will be no authentic initiatory groups in the future, because it is said that they will become more rare, but never go extinct.

No. The point isn't that there will be no authentic means of initiation in the future, the point is no particular instantiation lasts forever within time as they are not the Primordial Tradition itself. We know that Traditions can sputter out, Guenon writes plenty about what he considers to be legitimate but dead traditions.

>Also, this is not about seving the West or the world.

As a rule of thumb you should always read the post that a post is replying to for context. I was clarifying something the other anon had mentioned. I have no particular interest in discussing politics and that isn't what any of this is about, so please don't make it about it.

>>18465393
To be fair, wolf laying with a lamb and rainbow are christian symbology. And the article doesn't mention pride at all. That said, yeah the artist makes some strange stuff, in one of his crucifixes there is sun and moon, reminding of Jachin and Boaz.

>>18466202
But why are they working, and succeeding now? Why didn't they succeed like they do presently before?
Is their growing success causing the Kali Yuga, or is it because of the Kali Yuga? Or are these things merely reflective of the turning of the ages?

Monsieur la Guenon's monkeying around amuses me. What a wheeze!

>>18466202
>>18466186
>>18466166
Beware Brothers. Counter-Initiatory Agents are among us.

>>18465458
I've never read Guenon's writings about carnivals, but its interesting that he has come to same conclusions as I have, about Saturnalia, carnivals and European winter festivities.

>>18466304
> Is their growing success causing the Kali Yuga, or is it because of the Kali Yuga?

The non-dual view would be that these are actually the same thing, wouldn't it? And does it matter anyway? All that can be done is to endure until salvation.

>>18466324
the counter-initiation is AMONG US

>>18466381

>>18466450
Guenon predicted among us?

>>18466456
>one of us has been counter-initiated

>>18466450
i read shitposter in the thumb.

perhaps we can draw a parallel between the perpetual carnival of the ending times and the shitposting phenomenon

>>18466470
>guenon predicted the antichrist will emerge on 4chan

>>18466514
i believe the antichrist will be lauded on /pol/. so in this sense shitposting plays the role of the false prophet that is going to announce the antichrist, and not the antichrist himself

>>18466567
Honestly I agree, if anything it seems like a logical place, but not the only one that will be used. /pol/ will need to be conditioned into a mindset which is wholly supportive of counter-tradition, not that it isnt heading that way already

>>18466596
it already is with its focus on race. plenty of them advocate for violence when there are 'happenings'. even though im pro-trump (i'm not american anyway) i saw how it was getting very close to idolatry, so they really are expecting a new messiah, a new fuhrer etc. they have their meme about 'resurrecting hitler'

>>18466567
>le /pol/
STFU you dumb motherfucker. The Antichrist will be worshipped by normies and promoted by the mainstream media and big tech. /pol/ is one of the only places on the internet where there is still free speech and even it is raided constantly. /pol/ will be the only place where you will be able to denounce the antichrist if it’s not taken down by then.

>>18466647
did you forget the antichrist will appear to be traditional? do you think big tech will promote him as a pro lgbt NWO leader?

i have seen enough of pol to know how susceptible it is to the lowest forms of gregarisms and psychic influences. your own anger speaks against you and pol

>>18466702
Ok fight the good fight against the pol boogeyman retard.

>>18466702
>>18466647
It will appeal to both pol and woke fags, this is the antichrist we're talking about here, give it some credit.

>>18466647
>/pol/
Yeah, that place where people believe that the modern western "inventions" and "discoveries" are a sign of superiority. No thanks, there is nothing more modernist thant that.

RETVRN TO MVNKE

good thread. it reminds me of 6-7 year ago when constnat cross /lit-/x/ threads ocurred on various mystical and ocultoid subjects

>>18465182
desincronisation. you feel something is wrong and the feeling lingers, it probably was

Should we all initiate ourselves into the same order? If we're going to be internet /trad/ we might as well do it together
https://sufipathoflove.com/to-be-a-naqshbandi-over-the-internet/

>>18467048
No, first we meet and after we decide. If there will ever be a guenonian 4chan meeting in Europe, I would go 100%.

>>18467066
okay I will organize the America + Canada chapter

>>18467071
the American + Canadian chapter will only be open to white people (and native americans) so we can still be racist
Fems may be allowed in but they need to be at least a 7/10

based book

>>18467080
no, racism is part of the ego

>>18465179
>but he was certain that no woman, once she was outside the narrow confines of social convention, would ever want a pregnancy terminated.
He would be amazed...

>>18467106
racism is part of the American /trad/ition

>>18467112
>american
>tradition
pick one

>>18467126
cope, the American chapter will be superior to your European chapter. it's just a fact

>>18467130
the american chapter will end up being infiltrated by the counter-initiation, we all know that

>>18467144
not with me at the helm. We will be a counter-counter-initiation organization first and foremost.

>>18465115
To follow up on this: what is the different between reincarnation and rebirth?

>>18467144
let me ask you, how would you organize the europe chapter? where is the HQ?

>>18467165
>where is the HQ?
in a cave from France, is a secret location

>>18467112
I can't see Guénon(PBUH) being racist. He was a world traveler that studied and spoke to scholars and sages of all types.

>>18467204
Guenon (pbuh) wasn't blessed to be born American though
>>18467181
>France
interesting move - very respectable.
btw, we have rights to UK + Aus/NZ if they wish to join our side instead.

>>18467208
no, UK are ours, you can take Aus/NZ

>>18467223
you can have russia + greece in return for UK + Ireland
Anglosphere vs Continental Europe

>>18467228
I agree, it should be Anglosphere vs Europeans
t. angloid

>>18467228
>>18467223
>>18467259

WORLD FRATERNITY BROTHERS

DO NOT GIVE IN TO COUNTER INITIATORY AGENTS

>>18467261
cmon anon, obviously we would be working together. but friendly competition can only help.

>>18467261
>WORLD FRATERNITY
That’s illuminism/counter-initiation to the core

>>18467266
No, the continental guenonians will not work with protestant anglos, the fathers of all counter-initiatic heresies.

>>18467292
Not if we convert everyone to Guenonism.

>>18467374
we should tell Biden to read Guenon, maybe he will convert US to traditionalism

What is this UR Group that seems to be piggybacking on Evola's name on Amazon?

>>18467444
An italian group from Evola's youth which studied esoterism and occultism, Evola was part of it but it wasn't an initiatory organization. Some members like Guido De Giorgio and Arturo Reghini knew Guenon, but others were followers of Rudolf Steiner and for sure part of the counter initiation. I read those UR collected articles published by Evola and they are like 25% based and 75% counter-initiation, magic and psychism.

>>18466863
this.

>>18467506
Quite a few essays in Intro to Magic are very sus.
Even one that states sex magic works best with a girl aged under 12. Like wtf.

>>18467546
>Even one that states sex magic works best with a girl aged under 12. Like wtf.
kek
Evola also wrote in his book on Tantra that there are practices where you have to fuck your mother or stuff like that, very sus indeed

>>18464788

>>18467506
>>18467546
>>18467567
evola himself was an agent of counter initiation i have been saying this all the time

>>18467704
One of those who wasn't aware of it, as Guenon would say.

>>18467546
>>18467546
This more or less a tenet of Taoist sexual practice. Although for Liangpi the cutoff was under 13.

>>18467706
Guenon was an agent of counter-initiation. Prove me wrong.

>>18467706
>>18467748
This deep into the kali-yuga I'd be sus of any modern works. Not to say guenon or evola were purposefully acting as counter-initiation agents but it's very likely they were susceptible to some level of influence of natural forces.
Especially considering neither have them had accepted Christ as their saviour.

>>18467787
I consider this as well. They can assist in pointing the direction if you are discerning, but trying to mirror their path would repeat their mistakes.

>>18467787
>Especially considering neither have them had accepted Christ as their saviour.
One accepted Prophet Isa though. Also, many sufi saints, even from the last century(Shaykh al-Alawi) had visions with Jesus. Stop being ignorant and accept Islam as the final revelation, this is what Jesus would want you to do.

>>18467802
Evola even says that a lot of leaders of new age groups are being lead by these natural forces without being aware of it.
How can that not apply to everyone else, just at different levels of severity?

>>18464086
don't name U.G while shitposting guenonfag son of a bitch. Calamity awaits you.

>>18467823

>>18467812
you will end up being paranoid in this way

>>18467854

>>18467095
Nice pic, is that a good book ?

>>18467130
hell yeah bro
Anglosphere /trad/ will BTFO Europoor /trad/
make a discord

>>18467906
add me on discord tanir#2471

>>18467802
>if you are discerning
If you are so discerning as to know the direction then why do you need a guide? This is what bothers me about this whole issue. Is the truth available or isn't it?

>>18467952
>Is the truth available or isn't it?
It is but not on the internet or in books. Even Guenon said that reading is just a starting point.

>>18467958
Well that's why I think because if we have free will it must be a metaphysical phenomenon (since matter isn't free) and if our will resides in the metaphysical realm then our will must be able to access it. But if this is true then Ride the Tiger was right to not prescribe rituals of endurance and that it is sufficient for man to remember that he is tied to the eternal, even if the upheaval is so great he loses the key.

>>18467929
are you anglosphere?

>>18467996

>>18467787
>>18467567
Saying "sus" is also counter-initiation.

alright i'm a total discord newfag but I set up a server for Anglosphere /trad/ chads
https://discord.gg/qCcQCZbX

English must be your native language and you must be White. Native Americans may join (no mexicans)

>>18468072
Yes place this diagram beneath the largest stone nearest the largest pool on Skull Island and the reborn aristocrat of the future will be able to reconstruct western civilization.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=68HOifIGoAA&t=2343s&ab_channel=DramaAlertDramaAlertVerified

Here's a podcast with Islamic scholar Shaykh Abdul-Hakim Murad where they discuss Guenon and modernity, if anyone might be interested

>>18466622
Doubt race has anything to do with it, atleast once you consider Evola's acknowledgement of it as one of the factors that determines your place in the caste, and he wasn't only talking about the 'spiritual race' but about the physical one as well IIRC.
Unless Guenon has a different view on it?

>>18468307
AI is more likely desu

>>18468307
Guenon said that "varna" doesn't mean skin colour and that the caste system isn't based on race. He also told Coomaraswamy that he didn't believed in the concept of an "aryan race" and that there is no opposition between an aryan and a dravidian.

https://voca.ro/17PR5tT2fp9K

>>18468416
Pure Autism

>>18468416
Now do audiobooks of all guenon's books

Since we're talking about counter-initiation, what are your thoughts about Stylianos Atteshlis?
He studied Theosophy and Christianity at a young age, and considered joining the Thesophical Society. However, Steiner warned him about such decision, because of the possibilitty that they would end up deifying him like they did with Krishnamurti.
I was reading a book of his, "The Esoteric Teachings", but it was such an unorthodox book (thoughts about Christian reincarnation, our "Logoic nature" and existence as emanation of God, the permanent and temporary personalities, etc) that I ended up dropping him. All in all, it seems like gnostic beliefs regurgitated in a modern paradigm.
Do you think he could be counter-initiatic?

>>18465233
Inhale copium

>>18468416
holy based...

>>18468359
Looking at the current state of fairly traditionalist countries such as India and their caste system, this is one area where I have to disagree with him. Though I'm not implying that you have to go full /pol/tard on the topic of race, to think it wouldn't affect the overall quality of your society and all the biological factors associated with it (IQ, behaviour, trust, etc) in all the worst ways would be ridiculous.
Perhaps it's just me but over the years watching the clownworld going full circle, I've come to a conclusion that initiation alone isn't going to be enough to save one's soul if that same souls' essence is closer to that of a caveman than an actual human. Standards matter quute alot, IMHO.

>>18468571
It seems to me that you have a very modernist conception of what a human is. Should I remind you that many great sages were illiterate? Including at least two of the apostles of Jesus. When it comes to the intellect, the esoteric conception of it is much different than the modernist one, Guenon also talked about it and is clear that it has nothing to do with what we call today as IQ. Instead of making your own conclusions influenced by the current word situation, you should look at how the religious authorities of the past looked at humans. The Catholic Church, so much loved by many right-wingers, used to try to convert even the most barbaric people on this planet.

>>18468416
PBUH

>>18468439
I'd buy, and it's not like they would interfere with some grand plan of the rights holders.

>>18464823
this is really all anyone needs to know about O9A, they fucking glow in the dark. they infiltrate right wing groups and agitate for acts of senseless violence. they are fed supported.

>>18468681
>Guenon also talked about it and is clear that it has nothing to do with what we call today as IQ.
This. It will take generations to clear up this misconception. It doesn’t help that it gets popularized by Internet personalities. IQ is a mathematical model designed to quantitatively measure a property or faculty of the mind moderns call “intelligence”. This “intelligence” is not at all what ancient and medieval philosophers (and Guenon) called intellectus, which is not quantitative but qualitative. To make it short, it can be said that what IQ measures is at most reason (ratio), and then only the most exterior and utilitarian aspects thereof. Surely a spiritual hierarchy cannot be based on said IQ. It’s been said that IQ is a good predictor of success in many professional and academic fields. The professional academic is a person who knows what to say to get ahead and the professional — unlike the medieval artisan who strived for the production of masterworks and was part of a guild, which possessed initiatic character — is one mainly preoccupied with quantitative results, so it’s no wonder. IQ, it seems, is the pride of the merchant caste, and a hierarchy based on IQ would be… something like the one we have today.

>>18468843
pseud

>>18468571
>Wherever superior races have absorbed large doses of inferior blood, the results have been tragic. Egypt is one case – and India presents a still more loathsome extreme. The Aryans in India were too late in establishing their color-based caste system, so that today the culture of the Hindu is probably the most thoroughly repulsive on our planet. The more one learns about India, the more one wants to vomit. Aside from a few professional minds, the Indian people represent such an abyss of degeneracy that extirpation & fumigation would seem to be about the only way to make Hindoostan [India] fit for decent people to inhabit.
-H. P. Lovecraft

When one thinks of modern Indians, one instantly thinks of those Dravidian negroid midgetoids

this shit is a cult. i hate these threads, i hate guenonfag, i hate guenon

>>18468964
I hate trannies, I hate marx, I hate you

I will say this about Guenon
My life has significantly improved ever since reading Guenon
/trad/ mindset is truly unstoppable

>>18468985
take your pills you mentally ill reprobate

I was going to bump with a link to a video of an Aussie exposing Freemasonry and the elites, but (((youtube))) took it down. Luckily, I downloaded the video because it's quite long (5 hours) so that I can watch it at my leisure. I'll upload it when I get home.

>>18468493
bump, I really want to know ;-;

Pointing out counter-initiatic writers is very important, but what are some /trad/ approved writers - outside of Guenon and Evola?
I'm thinking of Schuon, Burckhardt, Lings and Cutsinger. What else would you recommend?

>>18469019
I recommend taking your pills, guenonfag

>>18466325
>I've never read Guenon's writings about carnivals, but its interesting that he has come to same conclusions as I have, about Saturnalia

Well the concept of eternal Saturnalia is most likely connected to the concept of "Novus Ordo" or "New Order" in a more exoteric fashion. Guénon also reminded that the traditional significance of these carnivals in this light as "inversion of norms" was a mistaken notion that they represented a ‘return to the Golden Age'.

This is from wiki:
>It held theological importance for some Romans, who saw it as a restoration of the ancient Golden Age, when the world was ruled by Saturn.
>atmosphere that overturned Roman social norms: gambling was permitted, and masters provided table service for their slaves as it was seen as a time of liberty for both slaves and freedmen alike

But this case can hardly be argued to be as a 'return to Golden Age', but rather, as Guénon sees, this 'inversion' quality inherent to those Saturnalic festivals as "closing of the cycle":

Guénon says:
>These two facts are quite directly connected, although this connection is not generally noticed, which moreover is all the more surprising in that there are several quite striking resemblances between such festivals and the “witch’s Sabbath”, where everything is done “backwards”.
>‘… the cleverest and most dangerous subversion is…the one that deforms the meaning of symbols or reverses their
import while making no change in their outward appearance. But the most diabolical trick of all is perhaps that which consists in attributing to the orthodox symbolism itself, as it exists in truly traditional organizations and more especially in initiatic organizations…the inverted interpretation that is specifically characteristic of the “counter-initiation”.

Inversion of social norms, traditional norms, symbols is another. But what one can be then said of the "Novus Ordo" / New Order of the Ages "aims" that appear on the reverse (or back side) of the Great Seal of the United States?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Novus_ordo_seclorum

>Ultima Cumaei venit iam carminis aetas
>Now is come the final era of the Sibyl's song;
>Magnus ab integro saeclorum nascitur ordo.
>The great order of the ages is born afresh.
>iam redit et Virgo, redeunt Saturnia regna,
>now justice returns, honored rules return (or return of Saturn's reign);
>iam nova progenies caelo demittitur alto.
>now a new lineage is sent down from high heaven.

Even Guénon writes about the American pyramid symbolism:
>There are other decidedly strange details in this seal as well, and the 'pseudo-initiatic' organizations rampant in America try to make good use of themby interpreting them in conformity with their own 'doctrines'; they certainly seem to indicate an intervention by suspicious influences: thus, the number of the courses of the Pyramid is thirteen (this number reappearing somewhat insistently in other features)

As a guenonfag(not the original one) I must say that this threads are a mess. Do people really read Guenon? So many useless debates could be avoided if they would.

>>18469002
It's a bad video and most likely counter-initiatic attempt to dumb down the masses so as to give them some sort of 'revelation'

He does not even reveal anything, most of the stuff has been widely available in terms of books since Guénon's time, it's like entry level introduction to a subject that hardly scratches the surface and the only "solution" he gives is that one must "accept Christ" in his heart. Like bury your head in the ground and just accept Christ.

Similar to Evola's speculation:
http://www.juliusevola.net/excerpts/The_Secret_Causes_of_History_and_The_Protocols_of_the_Learned_Elders_of_Zion.html

>Regardless of the role played by Jews and Masonry in the modern subversion, it is necessary to recognize clearly the real historical context of their influence, as well as the limit beyond which the occult war is destined to develop by employing forces that not only are no longer those of Judaism and of Masonry, but that could even totally turn against them.
>But then again, as far as the general radical Jewish-Masonic conspiracy thesis upheld in some milieus is concerned, the actual situation shows its inconsistency. It would be a real abandonment to fantasy to suppose that the leaders of the great conflicting powers — the United States, the USSR, and Red China — receive orders from an international center of Jews and Masons (almost nonexistent in China), and act accordingly in view of the same goal. Again, it is necessary to refer to a wider horizon of influences and to look elsewhere.

It's most likely that certain counter-initiatic forces are using them (Masons) as a scapegoat, or better yet, only controlling them.

This is personally for me where the line of reality, fiction, fantasy and historical factions starts to blur and you end up exploring the connections between 72 Unknown Superiors of Masonry and the Green Dragon etc.

>>18469065
Jesus Christ you people are seriously unhinged. Go outside.

>>18469002
>>18469065

Guénon also writes of the Taxil Hoax that appeared in the 1800s

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taxil_hoax

This sort of Satanic Panic Scare has also re-surfaced in recent times, at least with the Pizza Gate speculation.


While I'm not saying those theories are totally wrong, there has been speculation that the Taxil Hoax was perpetuated by Theosophists and similar groups, and it is most likely. Counter-initiation at work.

>>18469002
that video sucks bro
this is /lit/ anon, we have actually read Nietzsche. what that dumb bogan has to say about him was the most retarded shit i've ever heard

>>18469080
Your counter initiation conspiracy theorizing is literally just a more wacko version of the Satanic panic and Christian anti-cultism.

>>18469096

My "wacko version" is the same exact Version as Evola's:

>The deeper causes of history—here we can refer to both those that act in a negative sense and those that may act in an equilibrating and positive sense— operate prevalently through what can be called "imponderable factors," to use an image borrowed from natural science. These causes are responsible for almost undetectable ideological, social, and political changes, which eventually produce remarkable effects: they are like the first cracks in a layer of snow that eventually produce an avalanche. These causes almost never act in a direct manner, but instead bestow to some existing processes an adequate direction that leads to the designated goal. Thus, men and groups who believe they are pursuing something willed by themselves become the means through which something different is realized and made possible: it is precisely in this that a super-ordained influence and meaning are revealed.

It's absolutely ridiculous to think that some sort of "mass awakening" can happen or revelation of the masses can happen when the masses are being "exposed" some secret knowledge regarding who/what forces run this world.

Even Guénon argues that a truly occult organization (by the very etymology of the word) never leaves even any traces of its existence or even written documents. They are truly subtle forces, yet they can initiate and cause Events that the masses have absolutely no idea and will remain dumbfounded.

They can induce a girl to embroider a tapestry, or initiate a political movement to culminate in a world-war; all in pursuit of some plan wholly beyond the purview or the comprehension of the deepest and subtlest thinkers and these powers are stupendous: they seem almost beyond imagination to conceive.

>>18469096
the satanic panic was correct and justified

>>18469065
>It's a bad video and most likely counter-initiatic attempt to dumb down the masses so as to give them some sort of 'revelation'
>>18469084
>that video sucks bro
O-Okay... :(

>>18469137
I'm interested in forming my own opinion. If you upload them I will give them a look.

>>18469144
It's this video

https://www.bitchute.com/video/Yhv9ZMby68Ig/

>2010 AUSTRALIAN X-FACTOR WINNER ALTIYAN CHILDS EXPOSES FREEMASONRY

Hope you don't get cancer watching it.

>>18469137
it's just rife with misinformation
the hand in chest gesture bit was cringe
but as a /lit/ fag the whole Nietzsche shit made me cringe so hard that I couldn't take the rest of the vid seriously

>>18469129
>It's absolutely ridiculous to think that some sort of "mass awakening" can happen or revelation of the masses can happen when the masses are being "exposed" some secret knowledge regarding who/what forces run this world.
It's not out of the realm of possibility. Consider how ideas like egalitarianism, democracy, and mind-body dualism has trickled down and been inculcated in the masses without them actually understanding them, nor read the books by such philosophers they were based on.

>>18469129
>Even Guénon argues that a truly occult organization (by the very etymology of the word) never leaves even any traces of its existence or even written documents. They are truly subtle forces, yet they can initiate and cause Events that the masses have absolutely no idea and will remain dumbfounded.
how convenient

>>18469151
Come to think of it, the video is bloated with images of celebrities with Masonic symbols, and I heard the video length is in accordance with some Masonic numerology.

Is this music counter-initiatic?
https://youtu.be/D-51X4rW-7E

>>18469280
only Hank Williams is /trad/
everyone else is counter-trad
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rM8tROzp4Dc

>>18467095
Otherwise a good book, but it goes a way deep to some geographical speculation territory towards the end of the book with pic related stuff and trying to build some sort of cult/saint argument around Guénon's life.

The author argues that Guénon's home at Blois, a city in central France, was somehow aligned with certain sacred geography

>Blois is located on the vertical axis joining North and South. This axial position determines the passage from polar symbolism polar symbolism to solar symbolism. The primordial North is Jupiter, Hyperborea; the swans of Apollo offered by the Master of
of the gods are the ray of light (Lykos) projected on Blois. At of his birth, Apollo erects an altar with the horns of animals (precisely goats) and the winter solstice corresponds to Capricorn corresponds to Capricorn.

>Saint-Benoît-sur-Loire located at the Spring equinox, time of the initiations in the Fede Santa. The city is on the right of Blois, and the right hand side corresponds to the Holy Faith and through it one to the sky of Jupiter (Tsedek the just) this proves us undeniably the link with the King of the World

>On the other hand, let us point out the presence of numerous megaliths in the district of Blois. In addition to the conservation of megaliths, Templar establishments were frequently located in their vicinity. Saint John the Evangelist is called the "son of Thunder" and according to some legends the megaliths are stones are stones coming from Heaven

>The different cities mentioned with of course an ambivalence, if only Blois, where Guenon was born Guenon, located on the same axis and on both sides of Tours and Saint-Benoît-sur-Loire. These last two cities directly correlate with the lives of Saint Martin and Saint Benedict "which we propose to study. of Saint Martin and Saint Benedict "whose "missions" we propose to study stabilizing and protective "missions".

At some point of the book he stops referring Guénon by his name, associates some sort of "Divine Mission" to Guénon's life and after that constantly refers to him as "Servant of the One" in a saint-like manner.

>>18468571
Is it true that Americans are considered untouchables?

>>18469019
Start with his shorter oppa nasheeds.

>>18469330
no they are the master race
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yL_amiWnqFQ

>>18469129
>>18469133
>>18469137
/!\ WARNING /!\ __Counter-Initiation Agent Detected. __/!\ WARNING /!\

How do I know if I'm counter-initiated? What effects will it have on my soul and spirit, and what perceivable feelings will I experience as a result of it?

>>18469080
>>18469037
>wikipedia

>>18468493
Seems counterinitiation

He is your typical self-taught "sage"

>>18468493
Steiner was counter-initiation

The fact that he even corresponded with Steiner probably contaminated him with Steinerian Astral Masters

>>18468681
Illiteration has little to do with general intelligence, it's a skill that you learn as opposed to it being an inborn quality.
And while I do somewhat agree with your claim that I'm somewhat "modernist" in my way of thinking, I don't think that tradition and science are neccesarily mutually exclusive. I'd say one should put racial differences (which are proven true, afterall why do you think western governments are treating it as a tabboo that's not allowed to be talked about whatsoever?) at the bottom of a societal pyramid together with basic necessities such as food, clothing and shelter if one wants to live in a society that's isn't going to go through civil conflict for every 50 years.
You can't really build a prospering traditional civilization without setting up materialistic necessities as a basis upon which tradition, fait, and religion can be built upon, imho.

Why do you think religious multicultural societies like India or Brazil are still segregated? They can't function otherwise.

>>18468681
To add to this, past societies were significantly less multiracial than they are today. Mass migration in the West is a post-modern phenomenon.

>>18468571
>>18470058
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3356890/Roma-traveller-girl-aged-13-higher-IQ-Einstein-Stephen-Hawking-s-hardly-school.html

Gypsys/were are the lowest caste in India, they were actually so disgusting in terms of caste that they were expelled from the Indian subcontinent

This is the true superman of our age. The lowest caste negroid possible that was even expelled from the Hindu caste system (they are actually genetically related to Dalit caste that are the "untouchables" in the Hindu system)

Yet she/her caste will be the man of tomorrow. The lowest negroid caste (even below that of Dalits) but with IQ higher than Einstein, truly the greatest achievement of NWO, literal Goddess and the natural end game of the Novus Ordo

Hope we can sometimes make some vaccine or something we can literally inject IQ quantity to these negroid dalit dravidian midgetoids

A negroid Dalit-Pygmy with a brain volume 3x the size of his frail body. IQ of 540

>>18470058
>Brazil are still segregated?
What do you mean, man?
In India we have the caste system but what about Brazil?
Please, be more specific.

>>18470058
>which are proven true, afterall why do you think western governments are treating it as a tabboo that's not allowed to be talked about whatsoever?
I would like to remind you that colonialism and more or less scientific racism were part of the modern post-medieval western civilization and they used to dominate society, at least as much as anti-racism does now in the West. So radical anti-racism is a reaction to something which was already modern, turning back to its cause is foolish and sentimental.
>Why do you think religious multicultural societies like India or Brazil are still segregated? They can't function otherwise.
They can, at least to some degree, if they have a unity based on a divine source and not on secular humanism. The Islamic traditional civilization(which no longer exists) is the best example for this, but that was possible only because of Islam's universal function. A traditional chinese civilization for example, can never be multiracial. But we should think of solutions for our times. If you agree that we live the end times, from a religious perspective, there is no point in thinking about creating new traditional societies. Still, even though the masses are lost, you can still help individuals in their path to salvation or spiritual realization. So I don't see how being racist in your personal life will help anyone. Maybe this sounds too cuckish for you, but I prefer to think in a rational way based on my sincere views, rather than acting on sentimental impulses.

You guys gonna take the vaccine?

>>18469129
>It's absolutely ridiculous to think that some sort of "mass awakening" can happen or revelation of the masses can happen when the masses are being "exposed" some secret knowledge regarding who/what forces run this world.
How did things get the way they are now, then?

>>18469019
Coomaraswamy’s writings are packed with references and he talks about art. He needs a little more love.

>>18470859
I'm planning on reading anything he's written about Buddhism to get a perspective detached from Evola and Guenon, and the actual texts of the Buddhist canon that I've read myself, I just haven't looked into where I should start with him.

>>18470859
Coom writes about boring subjects

>>18470868
>>18470859
Coom doesn't have original ideas, he writes like some orientalist historian, his books do not contain any original thought it is like some mildew smelling antiquan rubbish

So what's something everyone can agree on that isn't counter-initiatory?

>>18470859
>>18470868
>>18470871
>>18470874
Coom knew 30 languages, including mandarin chinese.
>>18470888
Guenon(PBUH), he is the sage in which we put our trust.

>>18470888
Donald Trump

>>18470244
Segregated as in certain regions/districts having a very specific phenotype/racial mixture. This also reflects on their economic prosperity or in some cases rather a lack thereof. South Africa is another such example and to al lesser extent America.

>>18470263
If by anti-racism you mean blaming people of European origin for the misdeeds of their ancestors, renaming streets to honour George Floyd or pandering to minorities at the physical and mental expense of the majority, that is still white, then something tells me they're very bad at their job.

>>18470777
HELL NO
>>18470906
this

>>18470777
No

>>18471190
This is what I actually meant by "anti-racism". As a matter of fact, I consider myself not racist not "anti-racist". I reject both the right and the left.

>>18470777
no until I will leave the country I guess, if it will still be mandatory

>>18471245
I embrace full racism and eugenics. Every man and woman in society should be ordered and ranked.

>>18471251
>Every man and woman in society should be ordered and ranked.

Based technocratic neoliberal agent of counter-initiation.

>>18471251
Good for you man

>>18471258
>t. Crypto Marxist
>No shepherd and one herd! Everybody wants the same, everybody is the same: whoever feels different goes voluntarily into a madhouse.
~Thus Spoke Zarathustra

>I embrace full racism and eugenics. Every man and woman in society should be ordered and ranked.

>>18471266
>quoting nietzsche in a guenonian thread
ngmi
nietzsche is the prophet of counter initiation. back to >>>/pol/

>>18471267
It’s clear that you are a shitskin in a Western country

>>18471272
Guenon says that materialism is a good way to counter magical and occult attacks.
You are taking punch after punch while I have dodged them through embracing Dionysus.

The racism and caste obsession of the traditionalists depend on the ridiculous elitist notion that they are the pinnacle of truth and the apocalyptic remnant of the elite.

But Man is of universal constitution and brotherhood. Science is universal. Vaccines apply across cultural borders and telescopes work no matter what culture one is in. The theory of evolution is not an “inter-subjective” construct but an objective fact and applies everywhere and not just in Europe and the United States. F=MA is true on the moon, Jupiter or in another galaxy.

These 19th century romantics are all seeking to create an elitist form of spiritualism and bring back the unjust system of castes and those who criticize the caste system are guilty of a “luciferian insubordination in the face of the sacred” just because they refuse to be some sort of toilet cleaners from generation to generation. This is everything against what the American Dream fought for, but the traditionalists want to take it all away. There is no possible justification for the evil of the caste system, in a same fashion, we should not bring back Slavery.

Being a traditionalist and perennialist is also to be a supporter of abuse of human rights, horribly unjust economic arrangements, slavery and arbitrary dictatorship.

>>18471266
Idiot. There is a difference between forming hierarchical valuations of things and setting up some soulless bureaucracy to give you a little card telling you how good you are, which is unironically some abysmal lastman shit. You are so mindfucked that your attempts at rebellion merely strengthen your chains.

I feel bad of N that his heirs are people like you.

>>18471292
>muh hierarchy bad
seething postmodernist

>>18471275
>It’s clear that you are a shitskin in a Western country

race concen is purely an american product. there is no "white" race in europe. no italian or spanish belongs to the same "race" as a norwegian. this is americanism dumbing down ethnicity. racial concern is pozzed modernity applied to usa

sad for you

>bd5.png
>seething about /pol/
classic

>>18471304
holy fucking cringe

>pol is traditional

Just wanted to say, I love you all /trad/bros

>We must bring back the division of castes!

Never mind that most ‘priests’ were parasitical and most ‘warriors’ were thugs. Never mind that India is still rife with superstitions of myriad kinds many of which do great harm to women and hurt people who try to escape caste justices.

To quote a New York Times article, India is “teeming with gurus, babas, astrologers, godmen and other mystical entrepreneurs .” India and their caste system thrives on ignorance and those with a vested interest in exploiting it.

People like Guénon fantasized that an evil conspiracy took away the unjust powers and bogus superstitions of the priests and Kings of yesteryear. Kings were cruel men with swords and priests were selling indulgences for profit, and the notion that such thugs or hucksters were better than some blacksmiths, glasses makers or bakers, is quite absurd.

Trads also claim falsely how ‘low’ democratic people have victimized the holy priests and warriors and “celestial values” are replaced by “infra-human” values. They imagine ‘low’, evil people want to abolish castes. People like Guénon and Evola disliked hard workers and preferred lazy “blue blood” Aristocrats. Evola himself was an aristocrat. Values like open-mindedness, fairness, abolition of slavery, better medical care, worker’s rights, equality, women’s rights, human rights, animal rights, nature’s rights and democracy are all "evil" and must be abolished according to trad /cult/

>>18471340
>Values like open-mindedness, fairness, abolition of slavery, better medical care, worker’s rights, equality, women’s rights, human rights, animal rights, nature’s rights and democracy are all "evil" and must be abolished according to trad /cult/
Yes.

>>18471251
>I embrace the judgement of individuals based on an utilitarian perspective and by luck of their biological conditions
>Biological materialism is the real /trad/, you just don't get it

>my life's biggest accomplishment was being born a kshatriya (perhaps a brahmin even). i mean just look at my skin color. do you see my superiority?

>those muggles! they are ruining or hogwarts!!!

A great deal of Traditionalist writings, posts and even the Trad literature and discussion involves slashing and beating up on those they feel are remiss, mistaken, threatening or profane.

Indeed, a good deal of traditionalist writing is devoted to trying to trash thinkers who are close to them but slightly different. Great minds like Jung, Gurdjeiff, De Chardin, Blavatsky, New Age thinkers and many others are more than often "victims" of their attacks.

Traditionalists function as a sort of thought police, branding those who think outside the Guenonian or Evolian box as satanic modernists, part of the ‘subversive “counter–initiation” diabolic or profane.

Guenon’s and Evola's followers live in a system of mind control, unable to think their own thoughts, unable to read books outside the canon of the informal and unwritten “index” created by other Traditionalists that reinforce their cultish beliefs. Everything sligthly negative is categorized either counter-initiation or uninformed, profane and hylic exoteric misinterpretation (and which can only be unlocked by the keys provided by the /trad cult/)

>>18471380
gurdjieff and blavatsky are literally satanic.

this post is satire

>>18471340
seething chandala
you are born into your tradition and caste. you will never be aryan. now get back to work.

My two cents: I don’t think race in the modern, USA-census sense of classifying humans into groups like white, black, Hispanic, etc. is traditional. So far I’ve seen no proof of this other than the law of Manu, which classifies humans into varnas or “colors”. But these have a symbolic, not a literal meaning (unless we believe that Kshatriyas and vaishyas had literal red and yellow skin).
On the other hand the old race in the old sense of root, lineage, descent from- like in the expressions “root of Jesse”, I believe yes it’s traditional and all over the place. You were a Brahmin, a king, an aristocrat, etc. because you were a descendent of one, you sprung from that race = root.

>>18471380
I've never trashed Jung and Gurdjieff, they're alright, Theosophists are genuinely deranged though. You don't need Guenon and Evola to tell you that, though.

>>18471405
I thought I told you to get back to work, chandala

>>18471405
it is dumb americanism. ask an american irish if he belongs to the same race as an italian. it is the dissolution of ethnicity to a "us vs them" modern mentality very prevalent in counter initiation.

>>18471431
both Irish and Italians are Western Aryan
ur a dumb fucking marxist retard

Trads claim that the rebellion against the authoritarian Kings and Priests after the Renaissance and Enlightenment was a “luciferian” revolt against the
spiritual castes.

Actually it was just a reasonable revolt against superstition, abuse of human rights, horribly unjust economic arrangements, slavery and arbitrary
dictatorship that had continued on for centuries. Similarily, the overthrow of priests and kings led to the takeover of what the Hindus call the Vaisya and Shudra castes, that is, the merchants and workers. According to trads, these “low caste” people had no right to the power of the Brahmin and Kashatriya, or Priest and Warrior castes. Trads hate both the Marxists and Jeffersonian democrats, but the only solution they offer is to bring back Medieval tyrant kings and warlords.

>>18471405
We speak of family trees. Individuals of he same family are of the same race = root. If one came from a line of warriors, he was said to belong to a race of warriors. If this were generally true of a people or the majority, it could be said that that whole ethnic group were a race of warriors. The Hebrews were called a nation of priests. It’s often the case that an ethnic group had one mythic or divine ancestor. In that case, one could say that the whole ethnic group was of the same race = root. But I don’t think people of different ethnic groups considered themselves of the same race based solely on skin color, like in the modern sense of the word.

>>18471431
I fucking hate sandniggers on trad/lit/. they are such retards.

>>18471405
Thanks for your opinion Abdul

Trads claim to hate modern society and mercantile corporatism, but fail to see that Big Business and their CEOs continue the heritage of the arisocratic Ancien Regime, without the pretence of good manners or some vague concept of "honor". The aristocrats soaked the poor and middle class with high taxes and exempted themselves from most tax, as the rich do today.

Trads claim that "Divine Right of Kigns does not exist", yet one finds similar formulas for tyranny in most powerful regimes, states, corporations, and cults even in modern day.

George W. Bush made a classic statement of spiritual fascism when he said when he decided to run for president in the 2000 election, as he confided to James Robinson, he believed that he in fact been called by God himself to he lead the United States: "I feel like God wants me to run for President. I can't explain it, but I sense my country is going to need me. God wants to me to do it." A similar mentality of self-justification can be found among sociopaths and serial killers and especially ancient Priest-Kings who rule by their own "right" bestowed by God himself.

Current humanity must be careful to insure that arbitrary dictators , be they kings, corporate CEO’s or cult leaders, do not triumph over ordinary people or nature. Traditionalism is regression.

>>18471380
>>18471449
>>18471504

>>18471504
This is a bit of a straw man isn’t it. CEOs obviously belong to the merchant caste and have no business in politics. Capitalism is an inversion of the natural hierarchy, an usurpation of power by the merchant caste. No traditionalist defends the current social hierarchy.

>>18471533

>>18471534
Crush the merchant

>>18471533
>Capitalism is an inversion of the natural hierarchy, an usurpation of power by the merchant caste

Refusing subordination is to be praised as part of human and nature’s rights. It is only seen as 'wrong' and as the great crime against the Traditionalists as it was to the Nazis and the Stalinists or any other ideological autocracy.

The Traditionalists call this refusal of hierarchy “prometheanism” which they see as the evil fruit of the Renaissance and the Enlightenment. Prometheus was a mythological story about the suppression of what we now call human rights.

Prometheus refused to submit to the delusions of grandeur of the gods, who were no more than projections of the drive to knowledge and power of the Greek elite. Prometheus is myth to be proud of, even if it is just a story.

He is supposedly punished for this by a bird who continually eats out his liver. Obviously a myth made up by kings, and it is false. Prometheus is a enlightenment hero and deserves no punishment at all.

This traditional hatred against science and democracy is anti-Promethean. As an anti-Prometheans, they make claims and appeals to bogus authority (God). Trads hate science.

But this solar-phallic-hermetic 'Lucifer,' or 'Prometheus' is not the Enemy of Man, but He who made Gods of our race, knowing Good and Evil; He bade 'Know Thyself!' and taught Initiation.

Modern Man's highest agenda should be to place no reliance On virgin or the pigeon. "Our Method is Science, Our Aim is Religion."

Trads will never get this.

>>18471534
merchant caste used to be based and trad, Steve Jobs was an agent of the counter-initiation

>>18471587
no, this has been refuted
he was properly initiated into zen buddhist circles

>>18471584
I am sure that you are the same fag who spamed guenonfag pics and Ibn Arabi, get a life faggot

>>18471584
Nah, natural hierarchy is good and just.

>>18471616
you are talking to a sandnigger who lives in France. he's trying to overturn the Western Tradition so he will no longer be a Chandala.
Little does he know, being a Chandala was always his personal destiny.

>>18471078
based

I would like to mention that I am not a minority in my country, neither racist. Thank you.

>>18471656
>t. half french half algerian

>>18471668
I am greek actually

>>18471699
ah no wonder the hostility towards the Western Tradition, Roman Catholicism
you are an agent of the antichrist
begone

>>18471304
>there is no "white" race in europe.
Well, not for long

>>18471380
>a good deal of traditionalist writing is devoted to trying to trash thinkers who are close to them but slightly different
This is true of communists as well, probably of every school of thought.

This thread is kinda sus tho

>>18471304
lol completely wrong
Norwegians and Spanish and Italian are all R1b

>>18472101
Glow thread from the beginning

What would Guénon, Evola, Schuon, etc think about 4chan? I mean many people here got into traditionalism in a website where you have futa hentai very easily available.

>>18472300
>>18472300
>Guénon
/x/
>Evola
/pol/
>Schuon
/s/

Is this good book? Saw it endorsed on /pol/

>>18472383
Might have some counter-initiatic Tibetan black magic stuff to it. Pic rel

Green Dragon?

>>18465535
so the antichrist is sus.... thank you guenon....

>>18472505
>sus
Shut up with this sus shit

>>18472545
typical counter-initiation agent fears the exposing of suspicious characters

>>18471281
>materialism is a good way to counter magical
pls explain

>>18472729
It's not Guénon quote, but Evola

http://www.juliusevola.net/excerpts/On_Pre-Birth_Superconsciousness_%26_the_Power_of_Occult_Forces_over_Backward,_Primitive_People_or_Going_Beyond_Rene_Guenon.html

> for I believe that the process of materialization of the individual - what contributes to distance him from the subtle forces of nature - can actually act as a protection against occult attacks of the kind I have just been discussing. Such attacks, therefore, would have little power over modern man, an intellectual type and city-dweller, whereas they would prove effective against more 'backward' and 'primitive' human groups.)

>>18471202
>>18471248
>>18471235
Are you guys serious?
I mean, call me naive, but WHY???
inb4: Some bullshit conspiracy.

>>18471441
>Irish and Italians are Aryan

>>18473596
Fuck off shill

>>18471584
BASED and φαρμακός PILLED

>>18473561
take the vax
goy