/lit/ - Literature

>>18468387
This is play dress-up for disillusioned young men’s personalities

>>18468387
The Lost Dialogues of Plato

>>18468436

Livy, Plutarch, Herodotus, Thucydides. Apuleius or Ovid. The Odyssey is a good yarn

>>18468387
The Anabasis of Xenophon.

>>18468535
Kids are plugged into the TV. I studied Latin so I’m biased in that direction. Livy is fun stories of early Rome. Plutarch is like big book of chads, Greek and Roman. Herodotus has wacky stories from all over the ancient world. Thucydides is the ultimate realist. Ovid is epic poetry about people changing, Apuleius is one of the first novels also about metamorphoses.

Are you looking for history, philosophy, poetry, plays?

>Philosophy
The four (or five) dialogues of Plato surrounding Socrates's trial and death. Euthyphro, The Apology, Crito, Phaedo, and sometimes included is the Meno (since it contains contextual ideas). It will introduce you to Classical philosophy. They're usually bound together in one volume, and form a fairly complete Socratic narrative. Although the other, often more difficult dialogues will play into that "narrative," they're not as necessary for the beginner. The narrative of Socrates is one of the prime elements of all western philosophy.
The letters of Seneca are a good and fairly easy read. He's a stoic that predates Epictetus.
>History
Two books I have are "The Portable Greek Historians" by MI Finley, and "Rome: the Autobiography" by Jon E. Lewis. They contain numerous primary sources, and thus don't need to be read cohesively.

Silver Age. Starting with the Satyricon

It's funny with good satire of Nero era Rome but also has lots of lewd stuff like orgies, prostitutes, twinks getting fucked (and some straight shota) etc. to keep even coomers entertained

>>18468387
There is NO WAY this entire post isn't bait

>>18468499
This is play dress-up for disillusioned young men’s personalities

>>18468672
Didn't that Seneca dude kill himself to prove his philosophy? Seems pretty delusional, far more so than any other philosopher, to me. I mean you can say Nero told him to do it, but -- who would honestly listen to an order of suicide unless being manipulated by some nut job philosophy?

>>18468798
Petronius killed himself, too, at the orders of the same emperor.

>>18468804
Such a great way to live your life! Stoicism, baby! Woo-hoo!!

>>18468808
Not defending stoicism, just pointing out that a total hedonist also chose suicide so it wasn’t posturing to prove a nut job philosophy. They both got to hang onto a scrap of dignity instead of going out by whatever means Nero chose for them.

>>18468387
That picture gave me brain damage

>>18468830
Ok, but -- look at his last name. That is all the explanation needed for his acceptance of suicide.

On a serious note; did he not commit suicide to avoid sentencing? Vastly different in obeying a sentence of suicide and bringing your wife along with you

>>18468872
I don’t know all the details about the trouble Seneca got in. Petronius was an official taste maker in Nero’s court in addition to writing the Satyricon. He did something to fall out of favor and killed himself by slitting his wrists, binding them with bandages to bleed out more slowly, then he chilled out in a warm bathtub chatting with friends and eating snacks. With other suicides, the understanding was that you fucked up and that the emperor could wipe out your whole bloodline and take all your shit. Giving you the chance to fall on a sword first was a sort of mercy. Keep in mind that human rights are a recent invention and that due process has meant different things at different times. There may have been no formal “sentence,” just the understanding that you fucked up royally.

It’s like how people hate on the OT for being so bloodthirsty but not realizing that everyone played the game that way. Similarly, Procopius, writing during the early Byzantine empire, reports regularly and drily that any time someone new ascended to the Persian throne their first act was to kill all their half brothers.

>>18468798
>but -- who would honestly listen to an order of suicide unless being manipulated by some nut job philosophy?
That's reading a little too much into it. I wouldn't say it was the philosophy as much as the culture. Suicide in our sense is viewed differently, and in these circumstances it would differ from even that.
Seneca was essentially being executed, but in a polite way. He was ordered to do it, implicitly instead of receiving a more gruesome fate.
Socrates, for example, drank the hemlock. But it was not a "suicide," in essence. He was being executed.
Nero also killed himself (in a fashion). Cato did of his own volition, as well, in a spiteful or honorable fit, against the "mercies" of Caesar.
In this contextual sense, there was also a cultural tradition in the way one did it.

>>18468387
Start with the presocratics. Their writings are closer to eastern wisdom poetry than anything from classical Greece, but still worth your while. Heraclitus was the first one I read, and despite only fragments of his work still existing, he was profound enough for Heidegger to publish a work on his ideas. Take it slow and think about what you're reading. Good luck

>>18468387
Didnt the guy who made all these comics kill himself

Romaboos created the absolute disaster called the enlightenment

>>18469090
The unholy marriage between the Catholic Church and Skeptics certainly didn't help either. Sure they ran intellectual rings around the Calvinists but it was arguably a pyrrhic victory which led to the emergence of Enlightenment thought it France.

>>18471238
*in France

>>18468387
Enchiridion of Epictetus, it's a quick read and there's even an audiobook of it on YouTube that's only like an hour. It's a very grounding book, really gets your brain thinking down different pathways, in the same sort of way Meditations does.
As for other recommendations I've immensely enjoyed, there was Caesar's The Conquest of Gaul, I enjoyed it a lot more than I expected going in and never did it feel like a chore to read.

>>18471430
Imagine being roman, raping and pillaging through the country side with your bros.
Modernity is so garbage I literally can't even.

>>18468387
Herodotus and anything by Xenophon

>>18468798
no he didn't he was ordered to kill himself by the emperor Nero to whom he was an advisor to, and if he wouldn't follow through with his commands Nero would've killed the shit out of Senecas family
literally wtf are you even talking about in your post

>>18468387
Did you just decide to base your personality on an image made in ms paint?

The Oresteia
The "early" platonic dialogues

>>18468387
Xenophon's Anabasis is by far the most enjoyable and accessible Ancient Greek work I've read.

>>18468387
For Greek, my favorite short and accessible work is Plato's Gorgias. Its dialogue on political rhetoric is just as relevant today as it was then, lots of profound insights and humor.

For Roman, perhaps Tactitus' Germania. Also fairly short and all you really need to know is that Rome was attempting to conquer the Germanic tribes and having a tough time of it. Tacitus' humanizing (if patronizing) exposition on their culture is a fascinating look into both the Germanic peoples and the Roman perspective. Of course it shouldn't be treated as a rigorous ethnography, such things didn't exist in antiquity. Much of it is that isn't just exaggerated or misunderstood is probably made up. It's rediscovery in the late Middle Ages laid the foundation for the reemergence of a Pan-Germanic identity.

>>18468779
>asking for sincere personal recommendations that you immensely enjoyed
>bait
>>18472526
>>18468848
>>18468436
It's an X-pill image I found funny. Why is an interest in reading a certain topic equate with a basis for an entire personality?

>>18474313
not to stomp on anyone's sense of humour but why do you think its funny? the picture is just some retard unironically writing out his dumb worldview.
together with your post it doesnt exactly give of the vibe that you post it just for the funny.

as for reccs i recommend Sophocles Thebian plays if you havent read them yet.
theyre extremely good and very short so great if youre not familiar with anything greek, and they contain a lot of interesting philosophical ideas.

>>18474313
Why do you feel personally obligated to defend against criticism an image that doesn't belong to you?

>>18468387
this picture is absolute pure crystallized autism, it's too far out for a normal person to have made this even satirically, only a turbo sperg could have made something with this level of tism

>>18468542
This is great.
>that time when the Greek went into formation during practice and the Persians got scared shitless and started fleeing
Good times

>>18474519
If I had to guess, it would be the same reason you felt inclined to respond to his response.

>>18474548
>t. seething Classics autist

>>18474508
>>why do you think its funny?
>the crudely drawn face and "spirtual calm"
>the way he's clutching the Odyssey
>the fact he's dressed in old garb, but has a modern binding/cover of the Odyssey
>is a Greekaboo, but only "decently versed in greek classics"
>whatever the hell "acknowledges Iron Pills superiority" means
>the weird priority on "Logos, Pathos, and Ethos" as if they're obscure rhetorical concepts
It's just weird and funny.

>>18468387
>"immensely enjoyed"
you are approaching the Greek classics like a retarded westerner whose taste buds have been blown out by a lifetime of cheetos pepsi and lays potato chips. one does not "immensely enjoy" the Greeks you fucking tard. they are not the NYRB, they are not comic books, and they were not written for you. they were written for people 2500 years ago. the only proper way to enjoy them in the superficial sense you mean is for their strangeness.

summerfags get out reeeeeee

How is Aristotle's Politics for someone with no knowledge of the Greeks but an interest in modern politics?

>>18468794
EAT SHIT YOU ROMAN FAGGOTS. WHATCHA GONNA DO? NOTHING, YOU'LL DO FUCKING NOTHING.

>>18475690
You're too stupid to enjoy classics. You don't/can't understand without rigorous study so you cry about anyone who can simply open them and comprehend. Lmaoing at anyone who doesn't enjoy reading but still reads. Pure pseudery.

>>18468387
Nobody here reads the Greeks.

>>18475690
>cheetos pepsi and lays potato chips. one does not "immensely enjoy"
Have sex

>>18471430
Can confirm, The Conquest of Gaul is a very comfy read
Easier than stuff that is recommended earlier like Homer or Thucydides too