/lit/ - Literature

>>18452904
Sorry I can't directly answer anon, for I haven't read it. I finished East and West, it was a page-turning read. I realized by the time I finished it I highlighted about 30% of the book. Then I started reading Intro to Buddhist Doctrine and found it quite boring. What other Guenon books compare and contrast cultural mindsets rather than focusing on doctrine? Does King of the World?

>>18452904
This was inspired by Alexandre Saint-Yves, right?

>>18452966
>What other Guenon books compare and contrast cultural mindsets rather than focusing on doctrine?
Crisis of the Modern World
to a lesser extent Reign of Quantity

>>18452966
Spiritual Authority and Temporal Power

Liked it.
Also Spiritual Authority and Temporal Power.
He keeps referring to The Esoterism of Dante, so that should probably be good too.

>>18452904
I do think that this is Guenon's (pbuh) best book

How accessible is it? I only read Hindu Doctrines

>>18453086
Ive read his initial 5 works. How does this one compare ? Whats its premise?

>>18452904
How many Guenon threads do you make a day? Do you ever leave the computer?

pajeet annihilationist thread #2358237503458203458924562805892345

guenon was badly initiated into sufism by a man who didn't really know anything about it, and continued to live a degenerate life of drug use

coomaraswamy also proved him wrong about buddhism and it really guenon's pride and he had difficulty admitting his mistakes and making the necessary changes to his books

>>18453242
Coomaraswamy had a Realist interpretation of Buddhism that would be considered heterodox by every Buddhist except maybe some fringe sects or /lit/-style westerners larping as Pure Landers or Vajrayana. It certainly would not square with Nagarjuna.

good thread

very interesting discussion taking place in this thread

>>18453460
>>18453467
Huh two intellectual schools that shared territory influenced each other via discussion in debate? How weird and unexpected, surely both are derivative!

>>18453242
I hear this shit about guenon and drug use from time to time, but never found any evidence for it. Where did you hear this?

>>18453577
Matgioi, a french friend of Guenon who was initiated in Taoism, recommended opium for spiritual purposes. Guenon used it but quit after his sufi shaykh told him or something like that.

>>18453021
>>18453067
Thanks, will check these out.

reading Perspectives on Initiation right now and im curious, is there any way to know whether you are qualified for initiation, or can only someone who is already initiated determine if you are?

>>18452904
It seems quite plausible, but of course it can only stay mysterious for the immense majority of initiates. So I don't think people can know if it's true.
But maybe Guénon had in mind a few that could reach Agartha.

If true it's kind of prophetic (since the good made by men are done under the all-encompassing spiritual power of this world.
If false it's the best, most plausible, serious and fantastic esoteric fiction/investigation.

>>18453711
Qualifications are informed publicly.

>>18453761
huh?

>>18452904
>Also, the retarded jannies deleted my last thread so I will remind them that they have no right to remove this one: "/lit/ is for the discussion of literature, specifically books (fiction & non-fiction), short stories, poetry, creative writing, etc."
This would be true except that you gave them another reason to delete the thread because you decided to sperg out and complain.

>>18453711
I guess that almost everyone is qualified for virtual initiation, unless you are mentally retarded or something like that. While effective initiations are first of all very hard to find today, the majority of sufi initiations for example must be virtual, but you can also take a virtual initiations and make it yourself effective with practice, contemplation, etc, like Guenon said. But first of all you need at least the virtual initiation which as I said, is for almost anyone.

>>18453797
I mean, not details but the way initiates live, and what their litterature says about what is needed (dispassion, equanimity, to be smart, to understand metaphysics, to have undying love for a given god,...).
Then some way they choose can be found and are publicly known : astrological theme in India for example sometimes, the hand and physiognomy. But for this you can maybe see if it's still followed by all.

>>18453922
ridiculous take

>>18454022
Why?

>>18453922
this is not at all what guenon says. the only difference between proper initiation and virtual initiation is whether the initiate is conscious of the link to the suprahuman, the immediate spiritual effect is the same. "everyone" is not qualified for initiation, virtual or not

>>18454048
>"everyone" is not qualified for initiation, virtual or not
There are villages in Morocco where almost all people are initiated by the local Shaykh, and it was always like that. What is your explication for this? I read Guenon but I tried to understand his concept of "virtual" according to what I know from irl initiations.

>>18454064
you might be confusing religious and spiritual initiation. religion concerns itself only with the human domain and as such is available to everyone, but spiritual initiation is only possible for those with a natural aptitude towards spirituality, in other words, for those for whom spiritual realization lies in the possibilities of their being. without these possibilities being present the initiation has nothing to work with and won't do anything

>>18453642
No, he claims he quit after he got married to his first french catholic wife. But judging by the pictures of him in Egypt with Schuon is still looks like he was smoking hash and opium.

>>18454018
>I mean, not details but the way initiates live, and what their litterature says about what is needed (dispassion, equanimity, to be smart, to understand metaphysics, to have undying love for a given god,...).

Well, none of that applied to Ivan Agueli, Guenon's Sufi teacher and initiator. Since he didn't know much about Sufism (misattributed a text to Ibn Arabi, causing Guenon to think Ibn Arabi = Shankara) and was still doing drugs and drinking alcohol.

>>18454098
I am talking about initiation into sufism, I am not confusing anything. Also, there are many type of sufis, so this term is a little bit vague.

>>18454165
Guenon is not the guy you want for initiation into Sufism considering he was very badly initiated (if you can even call it that) into it and for 20 years that formed the basis of his knowledge of Sufism and Islam. The references he makes to Sufism in Man and His Becoming According to Vedanta, for example are based on this faulty knowledge of Sufism that came from Ivan Agueli, someone who showed no personal self control (alcoholic) or in depth knowledge of Sufism.

>>18453224
What's the non-semitic alternative

>>18454225
The overwhelming majority of Hinduism rejects the annihilationism of advaita. Read Ramanuja, Madhva, Kashmir Shaivism.

To claim that advaita is the primordial Hinduism, let alone primordial tradition, is bullshit. So many thinkers, scholars, historians, theologians reject that premise. Guenon's sanskrit teacher rejected it. And if you think his teacher was an idiot because he was Jewish, well then how do you know any of Guenon's knowledge about sanskrit isn't bullshit?

You may like this video.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vIk0ZV1L_u4

>>18452904
I just read it yesterday. I very much enjoyed it.
Best book? no.
Most interesting book? yes.

>>18454252
>rejects the annihilationism of advaita
Advaita isn’t annihilationism because consciousness continues on eternally, no amount of seething can change this basic fact
> To claim that advaita is the primordial Hinduism, let alone primordial tradition, is bullshit.
Advaita is the result of a straight-forward exegesis of the Upanishads, Kashmir Shaivism doctrine comes from Shaiva Agama literature, Vaishnavite doctrine cones from them combining the Upanishads with the Pancharatra literature (Vaishnavite Agamas). When you’re not combining the Upanishads with anything else—you get Advaita. You don’t have to like this but it’s the truth. That’s doesn’t mean that the other schools are not worth studying, reading, or being initiated into, but there is a reason that Guenon, Schuon, Coomaraswamy etc all viewed Advaita as the essence of the Upanishads.
> well then how do you know any of Guenon's knowledge about sanskrit isn't bullshit?
Guenon was already studying Sanskrit on his own independent of his association with the Jewish teacher, Sedgwick mentions this in his book. Guenon was an autodidact

>>18453080
man I can't wait to dive into Dante /trad/
he seems to be the core guy when it comes to the Western Tradition. should we all start learning italian?

>>18454124
>Guenon's Sufi teacher
Guénon knew sufism without the need of Agueli.

Ibn Arabi is not Shankara but have a non-dualist metaphysical doctrine.
And qualification is for the spiritual realization that comes from initiation, sometimes people don't have the level of the initiation they receive.

>>18454296
His book on Dante sucks. He says dumb shit like how Beatrice never existed. I really think Guenon skim-read everything.

>>18454315
I was talking more about Dante in general. Not Guenon's book on him.

>>18454297
>Ibn Arabi is not Shankara but have a non-dualist metaphysical doctrine.

Not only is Ibn Arabi not Shankara, but he literally states that the Shankarist type of union is "sleep" offering no benefit and is all around undesirable. He also describes it as a lower form of mystical union which is still partially in ignorance.

the bit about Melchizedek was the most interesting desu. Abraham gave 10% of everything to Melchizedek and thus was Abraham's superior. The great Priest-King.

>the italian mutt larping as a hindu is here

>>18454326
COOL IT WITH THE ANTI-ITALIAN REMARKS

>>18454046
Because it's far more easier to get external initiation than to become saint by your own.
Auto-initiating would be by spiritual mean, but initiation is by formal one.
So it can only be easier when possible.

Sometimes it happened but only new-agist believe in auto-initiation and believe that it is not exceptionnal.

>>18454192
Shut up faggot.

>>18454252
>And if you think his teacher was an idiot because he was Jewish, well then how do you know any of Guenon's knowledge about sanskrit isn't bullshit?
Because he was not jewish ? kek

hey euro trad anon, i'm gonna get initiated into Kalachakra and become the Chakravartin

>>18454345
Did Ivan Agueli die of a suicide or just drunkenly got hit by a train?

Either way, it doesn't bode well for Guenonians.

>>18454348
Guenonians will often say that his sanksrit teacher Sylvain Levy rejected his thesis on Hinduism (which came to be Introduction to the Study of Hindu Doctrines) because he was a Jew. Guenon admitted to smoking hash during this time and it explains why he was so paranoid and believed academics were out to get him, when really it's that he's a confirmation bias skim-reader.

>>18454192
bro you got BTFO'd a couple days ago on this topic
you are an agent of counter initiation
simple as
kys

>>18454323
It would by like Ramanuja. But for Guénon it's just a question of point of view. Since God is supra-formal, one can say He is more formal than anything else, and one can say He is not formal at all. It can direct to the same truth.
In this example, God is the culmination of altruistic/devotional love, but since it brings union it can be said that there is no love but identification. But love is the blissfullness of identification.

>>18452904
is this an easy read (at least in comparison to his entry level books)?

>>18454397
yes, it's like 74 pages or so
it's mostly based on this book by some guy named ossendowski or something

>>18454355
Idc faggot, my love for Guenon is stronger than your hate for him.

>>18454405
BASED (PBUH)

>>18454381
Knowledge can never decrease, according to Guenon. So then did Ivan Agueli never have any knowledge to begin with? Thus making Guenon's initiation into Sufism completely invalid? Or is Guenon wrong and knowledge can decrease so at some point Ivan Agueli had knowledge and then he lost it and started drinking again?

>>18454412
just stop tranny
you got BTFO'd
Agueli wasn't his Shaykh

>>18454412
Don't argue with him, is not worth the time, he is a troll. Just say that you love Guenon.

>>18454390
It's not a question of point of view. He explicitly devalues Vishishadvaita and any position less than annihilationist soul sleep. If you have any memories of your self in the afterlife that is very, very bad according to Guenon.

When he says there's no contradiction between Shankara and Ramanuja, he's being dishonest and really saying "Shankara subsumes Ramanuja, so the latter ceases to be a problem."

Is there a single person in any of these Guenon threads who is actually initiated into an Orthodox Tradition? Or is this all at the level of a preparatory theoretical discussion had by those viewing these issues from the outside?

>>18454401
thanks for the response

>>18454414
Agueli formed his knowledge of Islam that he had for 20 years. Everything in Man and His Becoming that touches on Islam is from Agueli.

Guenon literally went to Egypt after getting rejected from entering India, to join a tradition where the "Greatest Shaykh" Ibn Arabi calls the Guenonian position "sleep" and a lesser mystical union that is done from a position of partial ignorance.

>>18454425
Guenonfag posts on 4chan 24/7. What do you think?

>>18454368
I were answering to :
>how do you know any of Guenon's knowledge about sanskrit isn't bullshit?
I don't care about you suppositions.

>>18454252
>You may like this video.

Dharma Pravartaka Acharya makes two false statements in that video.

In the first he says that scholars and historians agree (it's not up for debate he says) that the pre-Shankara Vedanta commentators all held to Ramanuja's philosophy. This is totally wrong, there are various early commentators who held different views, the various Vedanta schools claim one or another of them while disagreeing with others, and modern scholars are divided on which Vedanta school those early commentators actually represented. Advaitins regard Upavarsha as an authority and Shankara quotes from his works for example, Ramanuja and Vishishtadvaitins also try to claim Upavarsha and say that he was the same person as Bodhāyana, but this identification of Upavarsha with Bodhāyana by Vishishtadvaitins has been questioned by scholars, such as Surendranath Dasgupta to just name one. Most scholars consider Vishishtadvaita to be Ramanuja’s unique and novel theology, they tend to more often classify people before him as Bhedabhedans rather than calling then Vishishtadvaitins. Even Ramanuja’s own Guru Yavada Prakasa had quite different metaphysics from Ramanuja, while Advaita predates Shankara and can be traced to at least Gaudapada in terms of historical personages.

The second false statement is when he says that the Brahman in Advaita is fooled by maya, and that Advaitins have never succeeding in solving this problem. This is wrong because it's explicitly taught in Advaita that the Atman-Brahman is not affected by maya whatsoever, the jiva is the one who is ignorant and who obscures the Atman-Brahman from itself with its own ignorance, but the Atman-Brahman is unaffected by that. Shankara provides a refutation of the attempt to say that the Atman-Brahman in Advaita is fooled, bound or otherwise overcome by maya in his bhasya on Bhagavad-Gita verse 13.2. The allegation that Brahman is affected, bound or made ignorant by maya can only be made by someone who is ignorant of what Advaita really teaches, who has not read Shankara's writings.

>>18454425
4chan is our initiation

>>18454421
>Just say that you love Guenon.

If you truly knew and agreed with Guenon's positions you'd never say that. You wouldn't build him up to as an idol either. You'd just say you love the primordial tradition. Instead all you tradzooms fellate a human being who tried his hardest to reject all forms of personal identity.

>>18454447
There it is. An explicit declaration of meme status.

>>18454446
>He's wrong in my mind.

k

>>18454457
we may be memes, but you can't fight it too hard. you're a meme too

>>18454438
Good point. I was excited to see some Guenon threads on here at first, but it's obvious now that it's treated as a meme. A shame really, seeing as the writings of Guenon are quite fascinating and important.
>>18454447
Too bad it doesn't work like that. Initiation is truly technical and specific, it's not some amorphous category that profane conversations on an image board can confer.

>>18454472
>Forget it Jake, it's Kali Yuga.

>>18454423
What he says in the screen is that it depends of the domain. So the expressions must be interpreted in regard to it.

In the same way "union with God" can be understood in different ways, the idea of a formal God and of the survivance of the personality can be too.

Vishitadvaita and Islam are mystic in their expression and are not very clear, it doesn't mean that they don't have a metaphysical point of view. Since for example Ramanuja must still follow the veda and upanishads.

Shankara fights against the separation of God and humans, Ramanuja against confusion. Ramanuja against infra-formal, Shankara against formal. Shankara against the ego, Ramanuja against the infra-ego (since in God there are all memories/possibilities of beings but not in a separated and conditioned way so they don't exist as memories in the proper sense).

In the same way Aristotle rejects Plato but comes back to the same metaphysics by other means.

>>18454453
His individuality is not important, but his personality is.

>>18454487

ordoabchao.ca
Is this website the ultimate and final redpill? I have been reading it for 12 hours non stop.

>>18454423
>he's being dishonest and really saying "Shankara subsumes Ramanuja, so the latter ceases to be a problem."
But that’s not making Ramanuja’s view invalid as a spiritual path, since Advaita says that people who devote themselves to meditating on the Saguna (qualified) Brahman gain entry into the Brahmaloka and that they can then attain moksha while inside the Brahmaloka, so from the Advaita perspective someone following Vishishtadvaita or another similar school of Hinduism can still attain liberation even by following Vishishtadvaita teachings and going to Brahmaloka, even if they think Advaita is wrong while here on earth. And Ramanuja says that liberation while embodied here on earth is impossible anyways and that you can only attain it after your body dies, so even though the schools disagree with each others metaphysics, you can view them as both being valid paths to God without much contradiction, one being direct and the other indirect, each school catering to a different spiritual inclination.

>>18454600
>>18452904
He talks about king of the world here
https://ordoabchao.ca/volume-three/shangrila

>>18454606
Ramanuja is lesser in the eyes of Guenon and you know it. Just admit it.

>>18454628
Yes, lesser in terms of being a more indirect path to God and in terms of having a partially correct understanding of the ultimate truth; but not lesser in the sense of being completely invalid or lacking any value. Guenon himself in his writings says that Ramanuja is orthodox but that Shankara still goes further into the heart of the truth and that Shankara’s exegesis of the scriptures is more correct, Guenon can admit both of these because the Upanishads themselves teach that there are multiple paths to God. I’m not sure why you’re so obsessed with stirring up division and rancor, you’re the same shizo always trying to take down Guenon from every angle, often making things up and bending the truth, talking about muh secret midget inside the earth and saying baseless lies like Guenon was rejected from joining Hinduism. What’s your problem? You unironically act like the stereotypical caricature that anti-semites make of Jews.

>>18454401
Which book by Ossendowski? He's ultra based and largely unknown to westerners, hope it stays that way.

>>18454965
Beasts Men And Gods
I believe

>>18454600
>ordoabchao.ca

>The American Far Right used conservative media like Fox News to exacerbate a cultural divide known as Culture Wars by emphasizing “political correctness,” opening the way for Russia’s use of active measures to install Donald Trump as president.

If he still buys into Russia-gate after it's been thoroughly debunked then I'm not sure if I can take him seriously, the site looks interesting though ngl, reminds me of gornahoor

>>18455613
>If he still buys into Russia-gate after it's been thoroughly debunked then I'm not sure if I can take him seriously
Dugin always says in his talks to vote trump because he thinks of him as a "Eurasian" president that accepts multipolarity.
I don't think that Russia caused the rise of populism in US and Europe, nor do I think that they "installed" Trump, but there is no doubt that they are utilizing it to achieve their goal of ending American interventionism and their hegemony. I can't find a flaw in his theories desu.
>gornahoor
That's a great website too. Do you know of other redpill blogs or websites?

>>18456017
>desu
fuck you gook moot.

>>18453016
Yes, though I imagine Mr Agartha gets on the same list as other Theosophists and pseudo-Theosophists.

>>18454124
>But judging by the pictures of him in Egypt with Schuon is still looks like he was smoking hash and opium.
Pretty sure he was an addict and "meditation" was an excuse.

>>18454323
Holy shit. Is Guénon counter-initiatory? How can we know he isn't leading us astray intentionally?

>>18454444
>I don't care if my translation is wrong
lmao this is like using an American bible when you have a greek one with an online dictionary, but worse because its translated from FRENCH.

Opinions on Vivekananda?

>>18454965

>>18454350
Don't do it. I warned you before in other threads, even on that was re-located to /his/

>The myth of the “Black Sun” which was able to win a central place in the neo-fascist movement and displays similarities with the Tibetan Rahu myth from the Kalachakra Tantra, can be traced to the inspiration of Wiligut and his milieu among others

Read the "Shadow Of the Dalai Lama"
http://www.trimondi.de/SDLE/Part-1-08.htm

>Rahu plays such a prominent role in the philosophy of the Kalachakra Tantra that according to Helmut Hoffmann the events associated with him form a “darkness theology” of their own (Hoffmann, 1964, p. 128). The epithets of the dark demon alone have much to say about his psychology and proclaim his comprehensive mythic program. He is known, among other things, as the “enemy of the moon, subduer of the moon, darkling, flesh-devourer, lion’s son, the roarer, but also [as the] lightgiver of the heavenly paradise” (Petri, 1966, p. 141). He is also called “dragon”, “snake”, “eclipser”, and “lord of the darkness”. In the Hevajra Tantra it is still said that it is solely the consciousness of the yogi which brings the sun and moon under control. But in the Kalachakra Tantra, the Vajra master in league with Rahu pronounces the sentence of destruction over the two heavenly bodies. It becomes the task of the “darkling” (Rahu) to destroy the two shining orbs as autonomous forces, that is, to bring the masculine and feminine energies to a standstill.

Kalachakra in the West is preparing the West for Devourment, they are counter-initiatic centers and most likely a type of accelerationist dissolution centers in the West preparing way for the Antichrist

Remember, that even Prophet Muhammad pointed out to the direction of East and said "The Antichrist will come from There"

>>18456760
Is this Amrita a veiled reference to Negroid Sperm? Or symbolical?

>>18454983
oh well I already read it

>>18454600
>>18455613

This site is a good study, but the man uses dubious sources

For example, the information he has about the Green Dragon is just outright embarassing and wrong, he uses sources like "Morning of the Magicians" which are not actual historical sources

But all in all, it is a good condensation, like an entry or general history. One should still make their own research and go much deeper than this website.

>>18456902
Where can I read about the green dragon?

>>18456935
Best sources I have come across:

>Les sept têtes du dragon vert - la guerre des cerveaux ("The seven heads of the Green Dragon - the War of the Brains") - Teddy Legrand
>Yrjö von Grönhagen Title: Himmlerin salaseura (“Himmler's Secret Society”) (1948 version)

These are essential, after that you can read about Wiligut like the study made by professor Stephen E. Flowers. The Book is called "Secret King", the secret king is a reference to Wiligut’s belief that he was the “secret king of Germany” (!) as the heir of the Ueiskuning or “holy clan.”

The implications of course are far-reaching. It would imply certain initiatic connection between East & West, SS Ahnenerbe, The Hermetic Order of Golden Dawn

It is also perhaps interesting to note that Wiligut's monicker "Ara-Hari" is a remiscient of Harahari and perhaps also remiscient of A-Hi
https://www.wisdomlib.org/definition/ahi
>Ahi (अहि) refers to “snake”. The word is used throughout Dharmaśāstra literature such as the Manusmṛti. (See the Manubhāṣya, verse 11.68)
>Ahi (अहि) (also, Āśī) refers to a “venomous snake”, according to the Śrīmatottara-tantra, an expansion of the Kubjikāmatatantra: the earliest popular and most authoritative Tantra of the Kubjikā cult.—Accordingly, as the Goddess said:—“Distracted and greatly aroused by the delight of the hymn, I do not know who is praising me. Who am I? To whom should I bestow boons? Like the venomous look of an angry snake (kruddha-ahi-viṣa-dṛṣṭivat) my look is hard to behold. I will grant a boon to whoever can endure it”.

Perhaps a most likely reference to Rahu and Dragon's Head, the 8th head of the Stooping Dragon of John Dee and Enochian System/Golden Dawn.

https://www.tarrdaniel.com/documents/Thelemagick/gd/publication/english/Qliphoth.html
>These be they who are Unclean and Evil, even the Distortion and Perversion of the Sephiroth; the fallen restriction of the Universe; the rays of the Coils of the Stooping Dragon. Eleven are their classes, yet Ten are they called; seven are the heads and yet an eighth head arises. Seven are the Infernal Palaces, yet do they include Ten.

In the Golden Dawn system they are associated with the Qlippoth, that essay is written by McGregor Mathers.

>>18456976
Also notice:

>Source: Cologne Digital Sanskrit Dictionaries: Yates Sanskrit-English Dictionary
>Ahi (अहि):—(hiḥ) 2. m. A demon serpent; a snake; the sun; Rahu; lead; a traveller.

Just finished reading the chapter 'The Inversion of Symbols' in Reign of Quantity. It's quite interesting Guenon noted that dualisms are complementary and not opposites, and we can see this subversion playing out today. The divorce of the royal from the sacredotal, which one can see an example here of the Holy Roman Emperor and the Pope being two distinct institutions and the more obvious "separation of church and state"; the mistrust and war of the sexes as you see what feminism has done to sour gender relations, man from God, Earth from Heaven, the microcosm from the macrocosm, and so on.

>>18457107
You are on a right path, but this issue concerns certain material things when it comes to the Green Dragon/Vril

There are two forms of magickal energy or power: Internal or Kundalini force-Red Dragon, serpent power, associated with Heat and Sexual Power. Then there is External or Odic force-green dragon that is associated with actual material universe and certain Hermetic theories and even the Chinese Feng-Shui (where certain Dragon/Forces are said to travel on certain paths in sacred geography)

For example, the wise men of India have a belief that a certain particular Prana, or force, resides in the Bindu, or semen. But all their theory of magick and meditation being a reverbatory, so that their "communing with God", is but a "communing with Self", and all their artifice directed to development of the powers in their own bodies and minds, as opposed to the Western idea of extending those powers to bear sway over others.

This is for example a typical division of between The Red Dragon and Green Dragon in the outer symbolism. Some people understand Kundalini as a force as something only inside of man, while not understanding that the Great force of Vril or Green Dragon concerns also the Earth and material in a sense of macrocosmically. One cannot produce anything in the microcosm without affecting the macrocosm so to speak.

>People with their imperfect knowledge are unable to understand these great Cosmic Events. Culture that humankind has build in the last few thousand years is Swept away when this Great Cosmic Power of Natures decides to move.
- Karl Maria Wiligut

>>18456890
antinomian teaching are found in all sorts of Tantric sects, that doesn’t mean they are evil though but its part of a method to break through to enlightenment

>>18457290
Yes, but the implications concerning Golden Dawn, Stooping Dragon and Rahu/Ketu as the 8th Head of Stooping Dragon are speculated in the East-West initiatic communication even by Guénon in his "King of the World"

Quote 1:
>ACCORDING to Ossendowski's report, the 'Lord of the World' formerly appeared several times in India and in Siam, 'blessing
the people with a golden apple surmounted with a lamb'. This is an extremely important detail when it is compared with Saint-Yves's description of the 'cycle of the Lamb and the Ram'. 1 It is even more remarkable that there exist in Christian
symbolism innumerable representations of the Lamb on a mountain from which flow down four rivers that are clearly
identical with those four rivers of Terrestrial Paradise. 2 As already mentioned, Agarttha possessed a different name before the onset of the Kali-Yuga; it was called Paradesha, which in Sanskrit means 'supreme country', and which applies well to the spiritual centre par excellence, also called the 'Heart of the World'

Quote 2:
>2 Note also the representation of the Lamb on the book sealed by seven seals mentioned in the Apocalypse; Tibetan lamaism also possesses seven mysterious seals and we doubt if this connection is purely accidental.

IGolden Dawn got supposedly their charter from the Continental ´Golden Rose-Cross´ which stopped existing somewhere in the 1700s. It was replcated in 1780 by the "Initiate Brothers of Asia" in Vienna and their superiors were called "Fathers and Brothers of the Seven Unknown Churches of Asia"

These should not be confused with some actual adepts living in Asia, but it is an direct reference to the Christian Seven Churches found in book of Revelation.

These are directly related to "initiating" the Apocalypse of John Dee.

>>18457356
The Four Rivers and their connection to Stooping Dragon are also referenced in the Golden Dawn doctrine:

https://www.tarrdaniel.com/documents/Thelemagick/gd/publication/english/Qliphoth.html
>In the diagram above, the first circle shows the Water of Tears, for the tears are the separation from the Light after the Fall. It is the cry of Adam separated from the first Adam and the loss of the Shekinah. The second circle shows the Waters of Creation. This represents Creation away from the Light. It is the creation of the Shells of the Qlippoth and the creation of man from Adam. The third circle shows the Waters of the Ocean which team with living creatures, both Good and Evil, and it is from this that the serpent issues forth. The fourth circle is the False Sea and is the Astral World, the place where deception and reflection are confused. The Four Seas are also reflections of the Four Rivers from the Garden of Eden (and also the Four Worlds), for it is they who must nourish the seven Infernal Habitations.

These be they who are Unclean and Evil, even the Distortion and Perversion of the Sephiroth; the fallen restriction of the Universe; the rays of the Coils of the Stooping Dragon. Eleven are their classes, yet Ten are they called; seven are the heads and yet an eighth head arises. Seven are the Infernal Palaces, yet do they include Ten.

>>18457356
>>18457290

To understand the connection between Antichrist and the Seven Seals of Tibetan Lamaism there is a communication between East & West that even Guénon impies in his "King of the World"

>>2 Note also the representation of the Lamb on the book sealed by seven seals mentioned in the Apocalypse; Tibetan lamaism also possesses seven mysterious seals and we doubt if this connection is purely accidental.

Pic related with the word "Antichristus" includes the Seals and John Dee's Monas Hieroglyphica symbol.

These Enochian Keys, in so far with their divining powers are also likened to the Opening of the Seven Seals of Revelation as well as the seven planetary spheres/spirits. Notice here that the word “AntiChristus” is clearly written above the illustration of the seven seals along with the symbol of Mercury. This is no mistake. Is this symbolic of the coming rule of the AntiChrist as the “chief ruler” of the New Aeon, in the midst or after the so-called “rapture”? As noted in my book, The Sun Lady Unveiled, rapture comes from the Greek word “harpazo” which translates to “snatch” away or to “seize” suddenly in a cosmic wave of plasma lightening over the entire planet. Perhaps this points to the “rapture” of the Church.

Kalachakra in the West is counter-initiation. These centres are not benevolent.

Any who has even slightest understanding of Guénon would agree.

>>18452904
>the retarded jannies deleted my last thread
Careful, I got banned for complaining about jannies last week. They have been power tripping for over a year now. Pretending they want /lit/ "clean" from off-topic and justifying that to delete threads with good discussions in them just because OP mentioned a movie. All while allowing Gardner spam.

>>18456719
>not checking my quads

>>18457356
>Yes, but the implications concerning Golden Dawn, Stooping Dragon and Rahu/Ketu as the 8th Head of Stooping Dragon
Yes but that all seems to be rather loosely and tangentially related to the Kalachakra Tantra, Rahu is itself not the black sun but its the “shadow” cast on the sun or the suns image by the moon during an eclipse.
> It becomes the task of the “darkling” (Rahu) to destroy the two shining orbs as autonomous forces, that is, to bring the masculine and feminine energies to a standstill.
This doesn’t necessarily have a nefarious element, but the bringing of the energies of the sun and moon to a standstill could be related to how the Adi-Buddha in Kalachakra is the “universal sovereign” and that part of becoming this is regarding ceremonies designed to symbolically place the world and things like the sun and moon under one’s control as part of the aspirant attaining this state of universal sovereignty (I’m not an expert but this is just one example of how it could potentially be read non-nefariously)
>Instead of the unnamable, impersonal and sexless emptiness of nirvana, we are suddenly confronted by an androgynous universal ruler. - Shadow Of the Dalai Lama"
I have a hard time believing that people who practice kalachakra are literally trying to destroy the sun and moon, if so why would anyone take kalachakra seriously since the sun and moon have evidently continued to exist for as long as people have practiced it? It’s almost certainly relates to the stages of spiritual ascent and the corresponding symbolism that is found at these various stages.

Moreover the Kalachakra actually presents a view of the Absolute that gets quite close to Advaita Vedanta, much closer than the rest of Tibetan Buddhism (it describes Buddhahood as a self-luminous awareness that is partless and all-pervasive, just as Advaitins say the same thing about the Atman) it would seem that the Kalachakra was as best an example of any of Guenon’s point about the essential truth of Traditional metaphysics being found in various traditions under different another format. The Dalai Lama, the spiritual head of Tibetan Buddhism, himself practices and initiates people into kalachakra, does that mean all of Tibetan Buddhism is counter-initiatic? Guenon, Coomaraswamy and Pallis seemed to reject that view. The Kalachakra Tantra was only preserved down to the present day by the Jonang school of Tibetan Buddhism, which itself is the school of Buddhism that perhaps comes closest to fully agreeing with Hinduism/the Upanishads in their metaphysics.

>>18457407
>Any who has even slightest understanding of Guénon would agree.
If you go full-schizo mode into seeking connections in symbolism, you can even make a detailed case that Yahweh is himself Satan and that Marcionism is correct as this article below details, but this would seem conflict with the view of the Traditionalists, not every connection between symbolisms and myth are what we think they are at first glance.

https://www.unz.com/article/the-devils-trick-unmasking-the-god-of-israel/

>>18457502
Again, you don't understand who/what Antichrist is and what Guénon meant by counter-initiation. It is related closely to Lamaism

Rahu is the same as the lion headed serpent (Leto and Teth); the Gnostic Chnoubis, from the lust of the Leonine Beast which comes forth from the descent into matter of Tiamat.

Even Guénon implies that both Christ and Antichrist will have the Lion as their symbol.

>>Rahu plays such a prominent role in the philosophy of the Kalachakra Tantra that according to Helmut Hoffmann the events associated with him form a “darkness theology” of their own (Hoffmann, 1964, p. 128). The epithets of the dark demon alone have much to say about his psychology and proclaim his comprehensive mythic program. He is known, among other things, as the “enemy of the moon, subduer of the moon, darkling, flesh-devourer, lion’s son, the roarer,

Guénon talks about this implication in his King of the World, please try to stay on the topic and do not confuse this thread with your empty and stupid Sanskrit speculation jargon of Kalachakra or restrain yourself otherwise from a conversation you don't seem to understand slightest or even the subtlest of implications.

>>18457519
>It is related closely to Lamaism
Why then in his first book did Guenon say that Mahayana Buddhism become Traditional again when it mixed with Shaivism and Daoism? The Buddhism that mixed with Tantric Shaivism almost certainly refers to Tibetan Buddhism, if it’s so why would he call it Traditional if he thought it was counter-initiatic? Why do none of his correspondences with Pallis and Coomaraswamy call Tibetan Buddhism counter-initiatic?

> Guénon talks about this implication in his King of the World
Does he specifically mention the kalachakra by name and call it counter-initiatic or is this just your conjecture that the kalachakra is counter-initiatic?

> empty and stupid Sanskrit speculation jargon of Kalachakra
Where do you draw the line between your speculation and mine? What makes one okay and the other not okay? There’s no need to be rude anon, you only make yourself look bad by suddenly tossing insults in an unprompted manner in the middle of a normal discussion about symbolism.

Guenon was counter-initiation. He promoted false misinterpretations and placed annihilationist metaphysics at the highest when really it's just a lower form, possibly even satanic.

When you read the primary texts you realize Guenon was wrong about nearly everything.

>>18457651
t. dumb hylic

>>18457651
ok hylic

Why did Guenon say the teachings of the Sheikh al-akbar, Ibn Arabi (may Allah be pleased with him) are the same of Shankara, when Ibn Arabi explicitly denounces advaita positions as a form of "sleep" benefiting no one and rooted in ignorance?

Why was Guenon promoting the ideas of Balyani as that of Ibn Arabi?

Ironically, it was Schuon of all the traditionalists who recognized that Ibn Arabi was not Shankara and distanced himself from him.

What was Guenon's endgame? Why did he do this?

Ibn Arabi is closer to Ramanuja. He is adamantly against the ideas of Shankara.

Ibn Sab'in = Shankara

>>18457651
Guenon refutes the notion that Advaita is annihilationist throughout his works, only someone who severely misunderstands Hindu philosophy or who is confused about the meaning of the words he is using could think otherwise.

Reject the death cult of Shankara and the rest of annihilationist mysticism.

>>18457636

According to some Sufis, Antichrist is precisely the nafs al-ammara, the commanding self or “demanding ego”. The following passage is from Marmuzat-e asadi of Najmo’d’Din Razi; citations are from the Qur’an:

>Now, in exposition of the truth about Jesus and the Antichrist and the respective contrast and similarity between them, it may be said that the similarity is superficial and the contrast fundamental. From the point of view of appearance they are both called the “Messiah”, and both have a donkey, and they are both alive, and they both bring the dead to life.

Now, Jesus is called the “Messiah” through traveling the heavens, while the Antichrist is called the “Messiah” by traveling the earth from east to west. Jesus is heavenly and the Antichrist is earthly. Jesus has vision and confers vision on others; visionary because in his infancy he said, “Indeed I am the devotee of God” (Mary, 30), and conferring vision by virtue of healing “the blind and the leper” (The Family of Imran, 49; The Table Spread, 110), while the Antichrist is blind and a blinder of others, for he presents the Truth as falsehood and falsehood as the Truth. Now, Jesus brings the dead to life as a miracle to provide grounds for faith, while the Antichrist quickens the dead as a demonstration of powers to lure one into denying faith. And the emergence of Antichrist out of the earth serves to bring about a reign of oppression and corruption on earth

Even Guénon in his letters reminds that Antichrist comes from the East. The Agarthi/Shambala speculation as underground existence should reveal one enough as the undeniable Seven Seals connection between East-West connection that Guénon speculates

I wonder what sort of Antichrist figure you yourself have in mind? Perhaps Mr. Elon Musk?

Why did Coomaraswamy refute Guenon on the question of Buddhism?

Why did Guenon's own teachers reject him for writing The King of the World and broke off all contact with him, never to speak with him again?

>>18457688
How much do they(the counter-initiation) pay you to make this anti-Guenon propaganda?

Guenon spread false teachings on Buddhism and Sufism. He was counter-initiation and probably even knew it.

Why does guenonfag's preferred translator of the Upanishads reject the primacy of advaita and the orthodoxy of the teachings of Shankara?

Why is it that the primary texts reject Guenon's thesis, as did Guenon's own sanskrit teacher?

Why do Guenonians play down the fact that he died in agony, preferring not even to mention it and act like he had a peaceful, quiet death?

>>18457636
>Does he specifically mention the kalachakra by name and call it counter-initiatic or is this just your conjecture that the kalachakra is counter-initiatic?

The Kalachakra Tantra characterizes the “gods” as complacent and ignorant; their world, though pleasant, is just as much a product of anger, lust and ignorance as the other five lokas, and is equally impermanent. So it is anti-cosmic, like Gnosticism.

As a geographical kingdom subject to terrestrial history, Shambhala/Agartha that Guénon speculates may have been located north of the Tarim Basin in Central Asia – eastern Turkestan, to be exact – which is north of Tibet; as a “pure land,” it is the “area” of the alam al-mithal associated
with the tantric tradition known as the Kalachakra which forms an important part of Vajrayana Buddhism, though it is pre-Buddhist in origin and may have affinities with the Hindu Vedanta. This is precisely implied by Guénon in King of the World.

In The Wheel of Time: The Kalachakra in Context, pp. 56-57, by Geshe Lhundub Sopa, Roger Jackson and John Newman, the
King of Shambhala is described as follows:
>The Kalki (the lineage king) of Shambhala binds his hairlocks on top of his head; he wears a sacred headdress made out of dyed lion’s hair and a crown marked with the symbols of the five Buddha families. He wears the costume of a universal emperor (chakravartiraja), and fortunate people are able to obtain the good path by simply seeing or touching him. The Kalki’s emblematic earrings and the bracelets on his arms and legs are made of the gold from the Jambu River. The light of his ornaments mixes with the light that rises from the white and red luster of his body. It shines out to the horizon; it is so bright that even the gods cannot bear it.

The fact that Shambhala is situated north of India, north of the Himalayas, north of Tibet and north of the Tarim River, and the related legend that the Kings of Shambhala counted among their servants the centaurs, emblem of the constellation of Sagittarius, whose month borders the Winter Solstice, mark it as a Hyperborean kingdom, the Polar King of which is the Kalki, around whom the entire universe of the Kalachakra revolves, just as the universe of China. This is the Chakravartin

Interestingly enough – by a more familiar Hyperborean figure, Santa Claus. Like the Kalki, Santa is also served by elemental spirits, the elves. And the figure of Santa Claus and his reindeer has shamanic affinities as well. Some scholars associate the red and white costume of
Santa Claus. More than enough should be revealing the associating of Old Nick (riding a goat) Santa Claus, Satan and his association with Antichrist. The King of the World.

>>18457769
>santa claus is the antichrist

wow, thanks guenon!

can't believe I ever read this retard

>>18457769
>Old Nick

In the Finnish/Scandinavian tradition. Old Nick is said to have been riding a Goat, but sometimes he is in chariot of Reindeers (in the more Siberian traditions)

In fact, in Finnish and Swedish tradition, Santa Claus is still known as Yule Goat (The Christmas Goat)

And the figure of Santa Claus and his reindeer
has shamanic affinities as well. Some scholars associate the red and white costume of
Santa Claus with the scarlet, white-spotted psychedelic mushroom amanita muscaria or
fly agaric, which is used by certain Siberian shamans, and which mycologist R. Gordon
Wasson considers to be the sacred soma plant mentioned in the Hindu Vedas – an
attribution also accepted by Huston Smith. In the words of the Rig-Veda:

We've quaffed the Soma bright
And are immortal grown:
We've entered into light,
And all the gods have known.

Fly agaric is a favorite food of reindeer, which is why the drinking of reindeer
urine as an intoxicant is (or was) practiced in Finland, and elsewhere in the far north. I
hasten to add that the world-age when the use of such plant agents as aids to
Enlightenment was possible without dire consequences, except in very rare instances, has
obviously passed, as we can clearly see if we can view with sufficient objectivity the
social and mass psychological effects of the use of “psychedelics” or “entheogens.” The
“psychedelic revolution” of the 1960’s opened door of the mass psyche to everything
imaginable, including the projection of traditional mystical lore of both the East and the
West into the mind of the masses. This door, unfortunately, could never quite be closed
again, and little has been coming through it for the past few decades but the influences of
the elemental and the demonic – those “infra-psychic forces” that Guénon, in The Reign
of Quantity, saw as breaking into our realm through fissures in the “Great Wall”
separating the material and subtle domains, and ultimately leading to the dissolution of
the present world. This is precisely the effect of psychedelics or “psychic expanders” on
the human soul: the attenuation, and sometimes the actual breaching, of the natural
barrier designed to separate the human body, and thus the material plane itself, from the

animic and psychic planes. What was spiritually possible in, say, the Silver Age or TretaYuga, is in no way possible in these last days of the Age of Iron.
So the Kalki of Shambhala would certainly seem to correspond in many ways to
Guénon’s Roi du Monde – though the question of whether or not the lineage of the Kings
of Shambhala still remains hidden in Central Asia on the human, historical plane, or
whether it has “ascended into occultation” in the alam al-mithal, remains extremely
difficult to answer.

>>18457784
that's retarded

>>18457688
>Why did Coomaraswamy refute Guenon on the question of Buddhism?
The extent of their conversation was basically this

Coomaraswamy: Buddha was a cypto-Advaitin, you can read some of his statements as implicitly accepting the Upanishads

Guenon: okay you may be right

> Why did Guenon's own teachers reject him for writing The King of the World and broke off all contact with him, never to speak with him again?
Do you have a source? If so post the link to it

>>18457793
It is not if you understand Kalachakra and Rahu in connection to Hinduism/Vedic traditions

Especially The Soma as the Nectrar of Gods and Amrita

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amrita
>The Immaculate Crystal Garland (Wylie: dri med zhal phreng) describes the origin of amrita in a version of the samudra manthana legend retold in Buddhist terms. In this Vajrayana version, the monster Rahu steals the amrita and is blasted by Vajrapani's thunderbolt. As Rahu has already drunk the amrita he cannot die, but his blood, dripping onto the surface of this earth, causes all kinds of medicinal plants to grow. At the behest of all the Buddhas, Vajrapani reassembles Rahu who eventually becomes a protector of Buddhism according to the Nyingma school of Tibetan Buddhism.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Samudra_manthan
>Amrita swallowed by the devtas and one Asura called Svarbhānu, also known as Rahuketu, who was beheaded and sent into outer space as Rahu and Ketu

This is Kalachakra implication, it is a gnostic heresy and anti-cosmic in essence

>>18457716
The Upanishads confirms Guenon’s thesis
>>18457712
>Why does guenonfag's preferred translator of the Upanishads reject the primacy of advaita
I prefer Nikhilananda’s and Gambhirananda’s, Radhakrishnan’s is just good for beginners because it has unabridged versions of all the Mukhya Upanishads plus some
minor ones
>and the orthodoxy of the teachings of Shankara?
Because Radhakrishnan was unironically a NeoVedantist influenced by modernism and western thinking

>>18457799
>The extent of their conversation was basically this

Why are you lying? They compelled him to make changes to his works, which he did, but then he later retracted many of the changes because he was vain.

Are you counter-initiation?

>Do you have a source? If so post the link to it

It's attested in many sources, from the pro-Guenon Chacornac, to the anti-Guenon Sedgwick. But I will recommend Jean-Pierre Laurent's René Guénon: Les enjeux d'une lecture as the best source about his Hindu teachers.

>>18457808
>I prefer Nikhilananda’s and Gambhirananda’s, Radhakrishnan’s is just good for beginners because it has unabridged versions of all the Mukhya Upanishads plus some


lol so you changed your preference after it was shown that Olivelle disagreed with you? Pathetic. You used to recommend it highly.

sudanese werevolv*s

It's amazing how little guenonfag actually knows about Guenon. He didn't know that his teachers broke off all contact with him after publishing The King of the World? Is this guy a retard?

>>18457784
did i expose myself to demonic influences when i took lsd? i certainly did not like it and will never do it again (did not have a bad trip but it feels way too intense to be healthy). can i purge myself of whatever forces entered me?

>>18457826
>can i purge myself of whatever forces entered me?

Not by reading and believing Guenon. All drugs are shit. But non-dualists love their DMT.

>>18457820
Sudanese werewolves are just one part of it. Guénon speculated of the Leopard Society which were associated with Uranium mines of Africa. This quote is from René Guénon et les sept tours du diable:

>Of at least twenty thousand individuals of Sudanese society, there are also in other African countries also in other African countries secret organizations, such as the one such as that to which the name of the Leopard Society has been given, where of the Leopard, where certain forms of lycanthropy play a predominant role.
>Leopard, panther or caiman as destructive animals are emblems of the god Set. The entry into the society is a simulacrum of initiation, in reality it is a question of developing a process in reverse of the true spirituality and to involvethe subject in the inferior and thus infrahuman extensions. As for the initiatory process, it is a progressive
>The women grouped together under the name of panther women, wearing feline masks and iron nails,
reputed to be witches and trading in human meat. The societies became discreet during the English domination English domination, they benefited from an unusual leniency from the from the authorities. It should be noted that the majority of the Leopard-men worked in the uranium mines!

>>18457826
>i certainly did not like it and will never do it again (did not have a bad trip but it feels way too intense to be healthy).

so why do you believe in annihilationist mysticism if you knew that the LSD trip was bad for you? all of this is bad for you, listen to your heart

>>18457826
>did i expose myself to demonic influences when i took lsd?
i can't answer this but i have noticed people in altered states of consciousness due to drugs become susceptible to demonic manifestations which preach i) disclosure of a higher stage of 'evolution' by aliens and ii) non-dual bs we are all gods etc, or both.

like this anon said >>18457838 non-dualists love their DMT. one just has to read the description by terrence of the mushroom gods to see how demonic it is.

>>18457845
wow that's so spooky and scary!

>>18457845
man, this is really giving me the creeps!

>>18457826
Charles Upton also absued lsd in his youth, but he came to tRaditionalism/sufism in later in life:

>LSD was not “activated” as a psychedelic until the first atomic bomb was detonated in New Mexico. (On the material side, this border apparently has something to do with the electromagnetic spectrum, which is why automobile engines will often die and electronic equipment malfunction in close proximity to a UFO.) Furthermore, those people Guénon called “agents of the Counter-Initiation”[32] are working to widen the cracks in the Great Wall consciously and deliberately.

>The first session showed me the existence of another “world”, specifically the “etheric plane”, the layer of the intermediate or psychic plane where the elementals reside; that started me on a long series of excursions into the elf-world, probably because, without my knowing it, LSD had permanently breached the natural energy-barrier or “etheric wall” between my material and subtle (not Spiritual) levels of consciousness—the microcosmic analogue of the “Great Wall” René Guénon speaks of in The Reign of Quantity and the Signs of the Times [1953]. This left me with a lifelong over-sensitivity to psychic forces that has produced many experiences of great pain over the years, made it hard for me to meditate (too much psychic “static”), and caused me to be vulnerable to demonic attack. If any good came of this condition it was limited to an ability to “listen in”, as it were, to the councils of the demons, and find out something about what they are up to on a collective level, so that I can avoid certain of their influences and warn others.

>>18457845
sounds like Blavatsky

>>18457826
>>18457867

I must also tell you of a personal experience with LSD I had after abusing it for months in my early 20s. I also have similar experience with it as Upton

I also saw "elf" world, or the world of Gog and Magog. Their number is like sand in the sea, they are extremely small people and etheric psychic nations, with extremely organized semi-authorative structures

Of course I cannot be sure was this just some sort of infra-psychic phantasm, but I also saw these extremely diverse elf/gnome nations on this drug. They seem to be connected with electrical grids and water and minerals, maybe some sub-material kingdoms of earth. But as I said, I cannot be sure I haven't "felt" them after stopping psychedelics and starting to read about the Cracks in the Great Wall

>>18457867
so this mentally unstable boring boomer thinks Guenon is based...sounds like he's still under attack by demons alright

drugs and non-dualism

https://www.dmt-nexus.me/forum/default.aspx?g=posts&t=62070%20

you can ignore the OP
read Handel's post on page 3 then proceed to his post on page 7

this user goes from "it's all subjective bro, depends on how you see it" to "they are real and attacked me as well"

>>18457874
If I would have to describe their size, the average man of that particular nation are about 1/6th in size of a rice grain. Smaller than ants

So they are extremely small, but not as small as some bacteria, and they seemed to have these weird beast-like cars or beasts of burden

They are always in a hurry, going from place to place, and they have certain roads of pathways they use and you should not try to block them, or they might give you illness

>>18457874
>>18457867
Have you guys read The Mind Parasites by Colin Wilson? Fiction, but a good read.

guenon looks high as shit

in all of his pics it looks like he's on heroin, but this one is the worst

>>18457878
>I'm just making an update to what I wrote back then, to say that I've been bitten by the entities, hard, much like the OP has. Life sucks for me right now, because I believed them.
>So yeah, I have zero trust for _any_ of them anymore. They're a control system. And we're cattle. Even the people who don't have direct, conscious access to these entities like many of us on this forum do, they're also controlled. They just don't know it. There's no escape IMHO. Just like there's no escape for cows or chickens in an automated industrial factory. Just because some of the animals there might not have seen the farmer, doesn't mean that the farmer doesn't exist or doesn't impose his will.
That is a massive change from his first post.

McKenna and counter-initiation/demons

>So that’s one thing about the future: the future needs to be dematerialized.
>I’ve tried to come up with something approaching a practical suggestion, and I took this need to the feet of the mushroom-gods—having been challenged by somebody at a talk like this. They said, Well, you’re always saying these mushrooms speak. Why don’t you ask them how to save the world? And I thought this was kind of disingenuous, but the next time I had the telephone to hyperspace in my hot hand I did make the inquiry. And the suggestion which came back, I think, is at least food for thought. The suggestion was: You wanna save the world? You wanna overcome male-dominance, the momentum of consumerism, so forth and so on? Every woman should bear only one natural child.
>This is an interesting idea, whether you take it seriously as program or not. If every woman were to commit herself to bearing only one natural child, the population of the Earth would fall by 50% in 40 years—without war, or famine, or epidemic disease. If this program were continued for another 40 years, the population would fall by half again. This means, in 80 years, the population of the planet could be reduced 75%. Why have we not heard anything about this? Even for it to be denounced—I’m not saying it has to be embraced. But why isn’t a tiny fanatical minority advocating this? I think it’s because it’s inconceivable in this society to try and practice capitalism in a situation of retreating demographics. It also would be a solution which would place enormous power in the hands of women. Women are often heard to complain about their powerlessness, yet here is a plan which requires very little input from white guys.

HMM who could these 'mushroom gods' possibly be?

>>18457902
>>18457886
>>18457874

Before I found traditionalism or even Guénon, my experience with acid/LSD was I saw these elf/gnome nations or what I now associate with Gog and Magog literally inside a crack/fissure in a wall

It was a white plastered concrete wall and some of the plaster had a "fissure" or "crack" in it and it sort of gave a rough surface on that particular spot

Anyway, I was on like 150µG of acid and was staring at the wall on that particular spot and I saw "inside" of it (I know this sounds ridiculous)

They are like semi-Medieval technological society. Smaller than rice grain type of people, they had these like combination of Medieval technology with wooden machinery or some stupid Medieval anime, but they had also very high aluminium like technology

All in all, I don't know what the fuck I saw. But I saw little people, like hundreds of thousands of little people and they have these extremely organized structured mineral medieval kingdom with aluminium technology and some other weird technology shit I don't know, fucking infra psychic anime gnomes or something

This was years before I even read Guénon's chapter "Fissures in the Great Wall" and about other chapters how they are some infra psychic Cracks in the Great Wall that separate material dimensions of our own from that dimension. I stopped all drugs in 2016 and heavy drugs like LSD in 2014.

I've never smoked DMT but I would imagine those machine elves be similar races to them, I believe there are lots of etheric Djinnic nations

>>18457913
MacKenna admitted to being a glow.

Will we later discover Guenon too was compelled by nefarious purposes?

>>18457854
i don't see what's wrong with non-dualism? obviously we are all not god on the individual plain (we as in referring to our human states only), but our being on all planes derive from god, so our innermost self is identified with god. the average psychedelic hippie would just tell you that we (as humans) are god which is completely wrong

>>18457923
i don't know about guénon but upton, though he exposes stuff like that, he also personally believes in population control or that we are risking 'overpopulation'. i dont know how he did not see yet the link between antinatalism and demonic forces. it could be something about being a boomer i guess

>>18457930
> the average psychedelic hippie would just tell you that we (as humans) are god which is completely wrong

but that's exactly what you said except with slight, meaningless modifications

>>18457936
could also be something about how not a single one of Guenon's followers is intelligent

traditionalism/perennialism attracts midwits exclusively

>>18457936
What do you think of these aliens as demons of gog and magog?

This is the infamous "Area 51" caller to Art Bell Radio show

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YKnonW_mmVA

Gives me always shivers when the guy says
"THEY WANT THE MAJOR POPULATION CENTERS WIPED OUT"

I mean... what if it is their agenda? What if this guy is not joking?

>*In 1997 Art took a call from a frantic man claiming to be an ex-Area 51 employee who grew progressively more upset as the call wore on, culminating in the show's going temporarily off the air because of "satellite failure

I mean the caller goes to say that they want the major population centers wiped out

Even though this call has been "debunked" it's just way too uncanny how the so-called "UFO AGENDA" is in line with the agenda of some occult societies like the George Guidestones

I mean what if these communities or intelligence communities itself are deceived? What if they truly believe they are in communication with intelligences from outer space, but in reality, they are in communication with much more "Sinister Forces", some sort of hostile pagan gods or other Djinnic demonic forces that literally want to wipe out the current humanity

It all ties even to folklore in a sense than in European folklore all the "elves/trolls/gnomes/elementals" have to leave the areas what humans populate. This is literally in the old folklore, that the humans are literally invasive species to such elemental forces and they literally do want us to wiped out. And I do not mean in a sense that they are material, maybe we somehow contaminate the spaces and regions to which these forces belong and they literally want us away (if the Djinnic/Elemental/Elves theory is correct)

This would mean that the whole planet Earth itself is a literal battleground, a so called battle of the ants (but including forces that are not wholly material)

>>18457938
everything created has to derive from the uncreated, this is only logical. only god is uncreated, so everything derives from god. some things are closer to god than others (angels are closer than humans, humans are closer than demons), and these things are not god. but in these things are an essence, a light that gives them life, and this light is the light of god. as a human i am not god, but in my innermost self i am identified with god. the you when you're dreaming is not you, but in his innermost self he is identified with you.

>>18457945
>aliens as demons
i believe this 100%. have you read messengers of deception by vallee?

>>18457826
Probably, first time I did LSD nothing happened. Second time I did it alongside weed I had a 12 hour trip where I was looking at this demon thing dancing in front of me (he had a headdress, and had that hand pose that you see in ancient Sumerian and Zoroastrian figures...which I never saw in my life until after I started looking), with 1000s of triangle eye things with teeth in the form of some sort of tree shape.
The eye things were fine at first, but once I got scared they sensed it and their eyes turned red in some sort of smoke (think looking at a red light through a rainy windshield) and they started grinning and moving in unison around this 'tree' shape with the main figure 'dancing' with that posture. Was way more intense than DMT (other than I still felt conscious)

It was definitely malevolent, but nothing happened after the come down, I felt holy and felt a positive presence behind my shoulders/back, which happens sometimes still.
Weird thing is that there were some ancient Rabbis that saw the same teeth shit when they were messing with magic

>>18457920
also how I ended up here

>>18457838
>But non-dualists love their DMT
DMT niggers only experience duality, always remaining the observer. Ive never read a sincere dmt trip report where the user experienced a non-dual union with God.

>>18457968
Yes I've read it and I've come to same conclusion as Upton and Vallee when it comes to UFOs

Jacques Vallée is probably the most respected scientist in the field of ufology and even he has come to the very same conclusions as Upton and others
1) They are closely connected to intelligence communities and substructures of society
2) They are connected to cults and occult societies
3) These societies are intermixed to a certain degree
4) They are more than often involved in deceptive activies, psyops and other counter-intelligence related activities

The fact of the matter is that NASA probably would have not even gotten to the moon without precursor to space program The case of pioneer rocket scientist Jack Parsons [1914-1952] comes immediately to mind. Parsons was a follower of black magician Aleister Crowley [1875-1947] and an associate of L. Ron Hubbard [1911-1986], another follower of Crowley, who founded the Church of Scientology and who also (according to my correspondence with Beat Generation writer William Burroughs [1914-1997] in the late 1960’s, when Burroughs was in the process of breaking with Scientology) had a background in Naval Intelligence, something confirmed by Peter Levenda in his trilogy Sinister Forces: A Grimoire of American Political Witchcraft. Parsons, according to UFOlogist Jacques Vallée [b. 1939] in his book Messengers of Deception. He went on to co-found both the Aerojet Corporation and the Jet Propulsion Laboratory; a crater was named after him on the dark side of the Moon. Parsons openly stated that he was working to open a “door” into another dimension

Vallee says that UFOs are:
>The etheric plane is home to the Jinn, the elemental spirits, the fairies, the
Powers of the Air mentioned in Ephesians 2:2—the “air” in this sense denoting the subtle-material dimension. (The
“border” between the etheric plane and the world defined by the five senses apparently has something to do with the
electro-magnetic spectrum, as evidenced by the fact that the proximity of a UFO will often cause electronic equipment to
malfunction.)

It's interesting the Roswell incident happened in the same year Jack Parsons and L. Ron Hubbard were scrying the Elemental Tablets of Air of John Dee in their Babalon Working

Maybe the Roswell incident was some fucked up air elemental manifestation
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Babalon_Working

Parsons says:
>This book contains the record of a magical experiment relating to the invocation of an elemental,

According to many sources:
>summon an air elemental and thereby cause Babalon to be born in this world. The workings involved a variety of systems, including the Enochian tablet of air,

>>18457962
okay, hippy...if you say so

>>18457979
they would never report 'union with God' since they are crypto satanists. they do report pantheistic union with 'all things' which is the same as their 'union with god'

>>18457984
>Vallee says

I mean Upton says

Based KotW/Ossendowski/Guenon thread

>>18457938
Thats not what anon said at all.

>Gen 1:27
So God created humankind[a] in his image, in the image of God he created them

>Wis 2:23
for God created man for incorruption, and made him in the image of his own eternity,
but through the devil’s envy death entered the world, and those who belong to his party experience it.

>>18457992
>they do report pantheistic union with 'all things' which is the same as their 'union with god'
They are not the same tho. One is demonic trickery, the other is genuine.

>>18457984

certain magicians found they were able to produce actual preternatural phenomena through autosuggestion; as with the Tibetan practice of psychically materializing a tulpu, their ability to alter their psychic state also ultimately altered their physical environment as well: the premise of all magic. And then, in the late 19th and early 20th centuries, as studies of the effect of propaganda on entire populations in the “radio age”
https://web.archive.org/web/20181229223115/http://www.sophiaperennis.com/uncategorized/ufos-mass-mind-control-and-the-awliya-al-shaytan-by-charles-upton-an-update-of-cracks-in-the-great-wall-ufos-and-traditional-metaphysics-sophia-perennis-2005/

Think of this like the experiments in parapsychology, which the Soviets called psychotronics, but like more Occult and more Radioactive

It is all about Radioactivity

Check out what Alice Bailey's "Seven Rays" degrees developed into modern times in terms of "Age of Aquarius" through her ideas infiltrating United Nations prayer room through Lucis Trust (She was the one who coined the term Aquarius)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seven_rays

The seventh ray is associated with Radioactivity
>Seventh "Organisation and Ritual"[47] or "Ceremonial organization"[42] or "Ceremonial Magic or Order"[50] "Radioactivity"[42]

Crowley also suspected how McGregor Mathers was being controlled by Abramelin demons:
>Yet strangely, the meetings were a great strain on Mathers' body, resulting in shortness
of breath, and a sense of what it must feel like when struck by lightning, precipitating
bouts of nose-bleeds, cold sweats, and bleeding from the ears.

That quote is from Mathers meeting with "Secret Chiefs" of Golden Dawn (they were Astral masters)

Radioactivity.

Literally when ufos manifest lots of radioactivity is shedded from their contact. They are associated with ritual magic and unknown superiors of certain hermetic organizations

They are infra-psychic forces of Gog and Magog leaking into this dimension, they haunt places with huge radioactivity like Area 51 and other Nuclear Bomb detonation sites. That's why UFOs are also connected to Atom Bombs and atomic weapons, and Uranium, the heaviest of elements, the demons are attracted to it because they are sub elemental parasites

>Yet strangely, the meetings were a great strain on Mathers' body, resulting in shortness
of breath, and a sense of what it must feel like when struck by lightning, precipitating
bouts of nose-bleeds, cold sweats, and bleeding from the ears.


These are typical symptoms of radioation sickness, literally the unkown superiors are Qliphotic Djinnic demons

That is why people like Dion Fortune who exclusively associated with Astral Masters died of Leukemia, typical radiation sickness, these occultists die because they are like playing with Uranium and other trans-PLutonic elements without protecting themselves

>>18458034
https://www.cbsnews.com/pictures/radiation-sickness-8-terrifying-symptoms/

>Radiation sickness

>It can cause people to bruise easily and to bleed internally as well - and even to vomit blood. The problems occur because radiation depletes the body of platelets, the cellular fragments in the blood that are form clots to control bleeding.

>>18458021
how do you know it is genuine? (see below) only difference is that one group preaches mayavada while the other also identifies it with god. in reality there is little difference between the pantheistic hippie and the non-dual advaitin

>There is danger certainly; but only if we mistake the part for the whole, only if we mistake our own soul in its timeless unity for the living God. According to the great Muslim mystic, Al-Junayd of Baghdad, this is not only a danger, but a trap that the Lord himself sets for the mystic who has advanced so far that he has put behind him the fear of God -- who has forgotten that "it is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God" (Heb. 10. 31). Such a man will mistake his own soul for God, and in very single mystical tradition, whether it be Hindu, Buddhist or Muslim, this will happen; and again in each of these traditions this mistake will be refuted by mystics who have had the two experiences -- that of the "isolation" of the transcendent and timeless "self" or soul and that of the overwhelming eruption into that soul of the love of God. The mistake is so easy to make; indeed, it is almost inevitable, for man was made "in the image and likeness of God", and unless he knows God either by faith or, better still, by experience, he can scarcely fail to mistake the image, once purified by asceticism and a total detachment from all temporal things, from the living God whom the image reflects. This "trap" that God sets for the unwary soul the modern Jewish philosopher and mystic, Martin Buber, discerned and warned against in unforgettable words:...

>... The second type of mysticism is the most strange; it is that described "from his own unforgettable experience" by Buber, and philosophically pin-pointed by the Samkhya-Yoga in India: the experience of the unfractionable oneness of the transcendent self, separate and isolated not only from the world of matter and mind, but also from all other "selves" and from all present knowledge of the living God. This we meet with among the Sufis; it is probably what the Buddhists of the so-called "Defective Vehicle" understand by nirvana. It can be tasted by all men, for this is the "image of God" in the human soul which even Original Sin could not blot out. It is this "image" that the mystic, as Buber saw, is almost bound to mistake for the godhead itself, as the non-dualist Vedantis did, and as Vivekenanda has done in recent times. It is the "trap" that a jealous God puts in the way of the spiritually proud.

>>18458014
alright, hippy...what matters is that it makes sense to you

>>18458034
>>18458042
i know little about radioactivity but there is allegedly a huge radioactive thing buried in the skinwalker ranch, which is reported as being place of paranormal sights. what i found intriguing was the radiation sickness described by someone around the ranch, his description is exactly that of an altered state of consciousness.

also this
https://www.utahbusiness.com/why-a-millionaire-real-estate-mogul-bought-skinwalker-ranch/

>>18457930
>>18458083

>the average psychedelic hippie would just tell you that we (as humans) are god which is completely wrong

These hippies have downgraded God to some force of nature be controlled

It's like Gravity to them, or some other impersonal force of nature like temperature or weather and you can "measure" it or some other

Similar to Star Wars when they talk of "Force", it's like something measurable and controllable force of nature

That's what they think when they talk of God, like some measurable power level of impersonal Zen "Force" like in Star War

Truly counter-initiation and literal satanic inversion of religion. But I believe this is what 95% of modern people mean when they talk of believing in God, it means something similar to "Force" in Star Wars or something to them

>>18458099
>skinwalker ranch,

What I know these satanic counter-initiatic people are drawn to nuclear sites and other ares like Area 51 and especially the Trinity Nuclear Test sites like a Moth into a Flame

Something about it attracts them. Look also how some counter-initiatic orders operated in the "Atomic Age"

Pic related is a quote from Frater Shiva of the Solar Lodge counter-initiation group who abused the 6 year old boy in the box case:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Boy_in_the_Box_(Vidal,_California)

Pic related is Shiva talking about the (radioactive) quality of the transmissions going on in Solar Lodge through Aquarius.

They based most of their operations around certain Talismans given by Crowley and especially one Abramelin Talisman of Crowley

Frater Shiva also this like 80 year old boomer he exclusively visits these Atomic Bomb sites like a moth drawn to them

>>18458124
this is weird. it is described in the article above

>Nine-year-old Bigelow once watched from his bedroom window in Las Vegas when the atomic bombs erupted across the horizon. It was perfectly dark, the twilight of early morning, then suddenly, “it lights up like daytime,” he once told Bloomberg. Those blasts drew Bigelow to pursue science.

>>18457517
>If you go full-schizo mode
is this not the only way?

>>18458124
From where do you get this informations?
Also, aren't you afraid that the counter-initiation will harm you one day?

>>18458054
>how do you know it is genuine?
Well one has a larger ego after the experience, the other is humbled.

>>18457688
>>18457799

>>18458158
Yes this is a common theme with these counter-initiative groups

Alice Bailey, one of "main" currents of counter-initiation who termed the "Age of Aquarius" tells us:
>Alice Bailey’s romance with mass death extended to nuclear weapons. Regarding the origins of the Bomb, Alice Bailey said, “The atomic bomb emerged from a first ray Ashram, working in conjunction with a fifth ray group; from the long range point of view, its intent was and is purely beneficent.”12

In an essay titled “The Release of Atomic Energy,” written on August 9, 1945, Bailey hailed “the release of atomic energy . . . this week, August 6, 1945, in connection with the bombing of Japan” as the greatest spiritual event which has taken place since the fourth kingdom of nature, the human kingdom, appeared.1

It might be related to antinatalistic tendencies of these demonic fucks and other counter-initiatory people

She added:
>You will now understand the meaning of the words used by so many of you in the second of the Great Invocations: The hour of service of the saving force has now arrived. This ‘saving force’ is the energy which science has
released into the world for the destruction, first of all, of those who continue (if they do) to defy the Forces of Light working through the United Nations. Then—as time goes on—this liberated energy will usher in the new civilisation, the new and better world and the finer, more spiritual conditions.2

Notice how these "Galactic Forces" of Light are associated with UFOs and Atomic Weapons
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/weird-news/former-israeli-space-security-chief-says-extraterrestrials-exist-trump-knows-n1250333

I think it's all part of depopulation/antinatalistic agenda that attracts them to it, at least subconciously

>>18458181
>counter-initiation will harm you one day

not that anon but this can happen easily, so one should be careful about this schizofest. most of the occult people fall into this by contamination, not actual first hand experiences. they end up being a mass of 'useful idiots' --- vallee describes this. most people are drawn religiously and are being controlled as puppets

since anon too has read vallee he must be aware of this. but still he should be careful. i myself don't get too deep into this schizo stuff

from vallee's book:
>“It only costs your life, you know...” the man replied. A man who must have come to some personal conclusions regarding the deception broke in to ask: “How do you know that you’re not being deceived by demonic forces?”

>>18457867
>>18457874
interesting stories
I myself had more of an enochian vision and it was amazing. haven't done it since

>>18457874
you should check out germanic/norse stories on elves/gnomes

>>18458214
>>18458181
This is not some obsession of mine. I'm already mature enough not to fall deep into some schizo-hole and let the study of this subject drive me mad or something.

The thing is, I put all this "study" of mine regarding occult and Guénon for a pause for many years. I think in 2015 I dropped all this study of mine for few years. Most of my "research" was done in my early 20s.

Then in 2018 I read the "Reign of Quantity" again, closer to my late 20s, and I found it make much more sense as I had a much more "matured" view of life. And now when these Corona lockdowns started worldwide all of this stuff started to make a lot more sense, then I read Charles Upton's "System of Antichrist" and it seems we are going day by day towards the scenarios put forth in Guénon's "Reign of Quantity" and Upton's "System of Antichrist"

I mean does not this Corona stuff feel fucking dystopian to you? Then there are counter-initiative people like Alice Bailey who say that the "Externalization of Hierarchy" is said to occur 2025. This means that those counter-initiatic Seven Rays and their master finally take a PHYSICAL form. Now we also have this Ufo shit in the news

I mean I read about Galactic Federation and these Ufo fucks years ago, like 10 years ago and thought that what the fuck is this counter-initiatic piece of shit. But few months ago my local news at my parents boomer house show some news anchor talking about "Galactic Federation" and few weeks ago they aired the fucking Pentagon UFO live on TV here in Europe. It's like this fucking counter-initiation is leaking everywhere and you cannot escape it

Soon the Great Wall will come tearing down. Maybe the DARPA or some other agency releases some new psychedelic drug (like they did with LSD) and we see some fucking mass psychosis epidemic like in the 60s with the fucking hippie shit and muh Aquarian Age

I don't know, but it feels like the Great Wall is coming down

>>18457888
blessed trips
P B U H

>>18457913
speaking of Mushroom gods, if you watch the Joe Rogan episode with that Mushroom guy, Paul Stamets, he says that he believes we will be able to talk to the earth via Mushrooms and computers in the future. according to stamets, fungi have their own highly developed 'communications infrastructure' and it's probable that we could link up with it.
Is the King of the World on the other end of the line?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mPqWstVnRjQ

>>18458102
what's important is that your coping makes sense to you

annihilationist mysticism is stupid

>>18458267
No, you are talking about God is like something measurable, like some unit of measure and you can say that "This man is full of God" and this man is "half full of God"
or "This man has only 1/10 of God filled inside of him"

That's fucking retarded, God is not some fluid and man being some empty vessel to be filled

>>18457688
Guenon (pbuh) was never “refuted”, because that would be an impossibility. He was merely persuaded by Coom to allow for some conclusions of his own thought, which he had previously overlooked, to come to the fore in his public writings.

>>18458264
i'm not into american culture so i dont watch joe rogan but one day i decided to check what it was about and noticed he says in this episode (with mike tyson) about how weed allows one to 'forgive oneself'. basically transforming drug into a egotistical psychic religion. another subtle evidence of crypto satanism and drugs

>>18458247
i always suspected that the antichrist would be an artificial intelligence. think about, an AI is a being born entirely from quantity, as pure quantity as you can get in the physical world. it is the farthest removed from god a being can possibly be

>>18458314
I think you would enjoy the episode I posted - i've listened to over 100 eps and he was the most interesting guest, hands down.
The guy also talks about how he had a crazy apocalyptic vision while on mushrooms (nukes or something like that) and saw the world was flooded with lava or something. The next day, there were massive floods where he was living and thanks to the vision, he decided to go to his cabin in the woods and rescue all his manuscripts just in time before the flood destroyed his cabin.

>>18458321
Well I've certainly thought about it in a sense.

What has been interesting to me is that Deep Neural network art is very similar to LSD psychedelic visions (at least my experience with LSD) and both produce similar "fractalia" so to speak

It amazes me how close these AI produced fractalia is to those infra-psychic experiences that LSD produces in terms of senses.

Like Upton speculates:
>he first session showed me the existence of another “world”, specifically the “etheric plane”, the layer of the intermediate or psychic plane where the elementals reside; that started me on a long series of excursions into the elf-world, probably because, without my knowing it, LSD had permanently breached the natural energy-barrier or “etheric wall” between my material and subtle (not Spiritual) levels of consciousness—the microcosmic analogue of the “Great Wall” René Guénon speaks of in The Reign of Quantity and the Signs of the Times [1953]

Maybe there might be a subtle connection with AI and these infra-psychic realms

Or perhaps one could go deep enough to rabbithole and suggest that Transistor technology was given/influenced by Djinnic nations

>>18458321
according to upton drawing from christian tradition (such as in pic) says the antichrist will be born through artificial insemination and rule over israel

this >>18458349 also is consonant to the lion equivalence mentioned by this anon >>18457519

>>18458349
>according to upton drawing from christian tradition (such as in pic) says the antichrist will be born through artificial insemination and rule over israel

Yes I've read that chapter.

The thing is, that counter-initiation is about Parody. Antichrist is a parody, a mockery of Christ.

So if Christ was born "miraculously" without Father, so perhaps the Antichrist is also born "miraculously" through artificial insemination and thus without a father, perhaps only through Mother's own genes or similar like that

I think all the "miracles" and even his birth will be some sort of materialistic "parodies" of real Christ, at least in terms of parodifying the myth/religious legend of Christ.

>>18458329
>>18458314
here's the clip I was talking about so you don't have to watch full thing:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=01mKyn_Gwcs

>>18458341
>>18458321
One of the more deeper schizo theories I have seen that these transistors/chips etc. are actually miniature cities for the Djinnic/Etheric nations to inhabit and they "live" inside these cities.

Of course this is ridiculous, but what if "Silicon" becomes aware through enough computational power and we actually see some sort of infra-psychicism emerge from these "lifeless thing"

Would it be then said that these are "their" cities? From afar they remind of urban structures of mankind

>>18458405
Another uncanny similarity is the somewhat similar structure of microchip/circuitry to some old Goetic/Djinnic sigils

>>18458405
>One of the more deeper schizo theories I have seen that these transistors/chips etc. are actually miniature cities
i was told that when i was 6-7 yo

>>18458405
>>18458427
>>18458436
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vWzFf_fR_Ds
also check this one out
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z4c2xUMaVYI

/x/ tier threads on /lit/ are always good stuff

>>18458461
Seems interesting videos, definitely will watch these now, even though never heard of Shaykh Nurjan Mirahmadi

>>18458405
I vaguely recall something Wiener wrote about 'gremlins' and air force pilots with regard to humans humanizing their understanding of how machines operate and respond. Of course, that's the non-/x/ explanation for why you might view computer architecture as urban architecture. Another similar correspondence is that of our telegraph/phone/cable lines forming a giant extra-human nervous system

>>18458491
i've watched a bunch of his videos and he has a surprisingly good grasp on computers/technology for a Shaykh.
it is said that the Djinn like to dwell in the desert/sandy places, and silicon chips are made out of sand.

>>18458502
Well the thing is that I have studied computer science in my early 20s in university. I am pretty well versed in the history of computation, computers and programming languages and even history of transistors and microchip, so I don't feel that much of a "exotic" fascination with the subject since I can rationally justify why things are how they are in terms of circuit boards, coding etc.

I also have a basic understanding what happens when I press "post" on this site in terms of network packets being send etc.

The thing is that I am still fascinated by some of the stuff that has been happening in recent years with the Deep Neural Network type of stuff.

For example this site comes to mind:
https://thispersondoesnotexist.com/

Refresh it, and it gives you a new face. It uses neural network known as a generative adversarial network (GAN) to produce them.

GAN can also be used for voice cloning and it is very good, I fucked around on my own and gotta say I got fucking scared even though I had a basic understanding how it achieves the "cloning" effect in terms of producing it. It felt fucking "demonic" to me even though I have a small programming background

>>18458506
>it is said that the Djinn like to dwell in the desert/sandy places, and silicon chips are made out of sand.

Well it could be likened that the "inorganic beings," the silicon-based consciousness that is alien to, and aggressively invading, us, the carbon-based animal units.

>"Tetrahedral coordination is a major structural motif in silicon chemistry just as it is for carbon chemistry. However, the 3p subshell is rather more diffuse than the 2p subshell and does not hybridise so well with the 3s subshell. As a result, the chemistry of silicon and its heavier congeners shows significant differences from that of carbon ..."
-Wikipedia

One could argue that they could be/are sentient. Sheik in that video likens their "smokeless fire" in Quran to be that of Eletricity. Maybe a plasma of some sort would be closer to truth

One of the more schizo-traditionalist-intepretations I have read is also that:
>Luke 10:18 “I saw Satan fall like lightning from heaven.”

Also being a reference to Electricity.

>>18458575
I have one last video rec for you (and the best one)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6dV-ZYCh3eU

>>18454487
kek

>>18458461
he seems new agey and counter initiatic based on this:

>In Pursuit of Angelic Power: A Path Towards Divine Healing Energy
>As heavenly beings, our souls are eternally in pursuit of healing energy through Divine and Angelic power. By understanding the origins of energy through light and sound, the seeker learns to attune to the guides of heavenly knowledge and discovers essential techniques to acquire and increase positive energy within our beings. This one-of-a-kind masterpiece features over 300 full-colour images and diagrams, visually enhancing the reader's journey towards spiritual ascent while illuminating its extraordinary teachings.

>This book examines transformational practices such as chanting, meditation, breathing, and becoming conscious of everyday habits that can elevate one's circle of protection. For the person seeking guidance towards understanding, building, and perfecting their heavenly energy, this exceptional composition is the perfect daily guide in which to enter into the oceans of angelic power.

>>18458590
Definitely a red flag

>>18458590
>he seems new agey
of course, he is based in Los Angeles

/lit/ is better at being /x/ than /x/ and better at being /his/ than /his/. What's next, someone who became /fit/ by lifting books?

>>18458580
>Float tanks
>Extra-Dimensional Beings
>Alien Abductions

My counter-initiation alarm went off 2 minutes into the video

>>18458622
yes he was peak new age but he had some interesting ideas related to Solid State Intelligence and E.C.C.O.
>Solid State Intelligence (S.S.I.) is a malevolent entity described by Lilly in his 1978 autobiography, The Scientist. According to Lilly, the network of computation-capable solid state systems (electronics) engineered by humans will eventually develop into an autonomous "bioform." Since the optimal survival conditions for this bioform (low-temperature vacuum) are drastically different from those humans need (room temperature aerial atmosphere and adequate water supply), Lilly predicted (or "prophesied," based on his ketamine-induced visions) a dramatic conflict between the two forms of intelligence.

>>18458631
E.C.C.O.
>In 1974, Lilly's research using various psychoactive drugs led him to believe in the existence of a certain hierarchical group of cosmic entities, the lowest of which he later dubbed Earth Coincidence Control Office (E.C.C.O.) in an autobiography published jointly with his wife Antonietta (often called Toni). Lilly states that "[t]here exists a Cosmic Coincidence Control Center (CCCC) with a Galactic substation called Galactic Coincidence Control (GCC). Within GCC is the Solar System Control Unit (SSCU), within which is the Earth Coincidence Control Office (ECCO)."[23]

Lilly also wrote that there are nine conditions that should be followed by people who seek to experience coincidence in their own lives:

>You must know/assume/simulate our existence in E.C.C.O.
>You must be willing to accept our responsibility for control of your coincidences.
>You must exert your best capabilities for your survival programs and your own development as an advancing/advanced member of E.C.C.O.'s earthside corps of controlled coincidence workers. >You are expected to use your best intelligence in this service.
>You are expected to expect the unexpected every minute, every hour of every day and of every night.
>You must be able to maintain conscious/thinking/reasoning no matter what events we arrange to happen to you. Some of these events will seem cataclysmic/catastrophic/overwhelming: remember stay aware, no matter what happens/apparently happens to you.
>You are in our training program for life: there is no escape from it. We (not you) control the long-term coincidences; you (not we) control the shorter-term coincidences by your own efforts.
>Your major mission on earth is to discover/create that which we do to control the long-term coincidence patterns: you are being trained on Earth to do this job.
>When your mission on planet Earth is completed, you will no longer be required to remain/return there.
>Remember the motto passed to us (from G.C.C. via S.S.C.U.): "Cosmic Love is absolutely Ruthless and Highly Indifferent: it teaches its lessons whether you like/dislike them or not."[24]

>>18458602
I hope so!

>>18458631
I think Float Tanks are pretty counter-initiatic and similar to mediumship in a sense

I cannot remember was it a Guénon or Crowley quote, but the dangers are similar. The "mediums" would go to sit in a dark room with moderate temperature and no distractions, empty their mind in a "zen-like fashion" and invite all sorts of influences to come to them and start "channeling"

Float tanks look like similar type of "channeling" to me and the "beings" one could possibly contact that way must be some fucking infra-psychic astral parasites, like those of mediums. One can only wonder what sort of degenerate influences might possess inviting individual in a fashion like that, even the Hermetic magicians warn to be "possessed" like that, it's like letting your guard dawn and "just accept all" = astral parasite satanic infra-psychic djinn possess you

>>18458602
>He isnt already tanked from lifting his books containing divine knowledge all day
ngmi

>>18458635
Sounds like some suicide doomsday ufo cult rules

>>18458650
i've floated over 50 times (I have since retired from it) and I always stopped after emptying my mind in a 'zen-like fashion'. it usually took about 1-2 hours of doing it but I always came out so refreshed.

>>18458684
The idea of float tank disgusts me

Is a man supposed to regress to a some fetus like existence? Empty their minds

Are you allowed also to shit yourself/piss on the water and just let it float around?

I've never done it, but it seems somehow degenerate to me

I mean when compared to sauna there is actual structure like heat, suffering, cleansing, purifying sweat -> shower with cold water-> rebirth

It's ritualistic cleansing

With float tank I just see counter-initiatic regression, but I might be biased

>>18458650
What people call today as "meditation" is the same thing, and there are many people who encountered demons and psychic entities while practicing it.

>>18458555
Well in a way it creates copies without an original. Or rather, the original is a composite of multiples (which themselves are speciated from a supposed general, i.e. an original). So it crosses into that simulacra territory for sure. Hence the demonic or conjured aspect of it, as if a magician's illusion. It is only thought to be unreal, not grasped in experience as unreal.

>>18458427
this is interesting, i've never heard about this
>>18458751
lol bro it's just a form of meditation
what difference does it make if someone does it laying down on a floor vs in a bathtub with salt water

>>18458751
>>18458769
floating in salt water is actually /trad/

>>18457826
You were never corrupted.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_Upton_(poet)
>In the late 1980s he was briefly involved with the "magical populism" of the New Age peace movement. He studied group dreamwork and dream networking.

He really was a degenerate back in the day

>>18458869
The majority of us used to be degenerates.

>>18458881
Some of us still are and are trying our best to overcome it

>Guénon's conversion to Islam/Sufism was not genuine and he was a Freemason until his death and that is why he never criticized Masonry or even mention it in connection with counter-initiation

thoughts?

>>18458405

>>18458314
>i'm not into american culture
how dare you!

>>18459182
America is counter-initiation from the Beginning

Or perhaps not in the very beginning, but the Weishauptian Luciferian Illuminators infiltrated their Masonry and Freemasonry provided only coherence to American continent

United States of America has no ethno-nationalist identity apart from ideology provided by Masonry (and not including the Native American traditions). It was absolutely never meant to be that way. It was literally meant to be a giant Masonic experiment. Closest thing to any cohesive culture is that cohesion provided by Freemasonry and their stated ideals such as fraternity, equality, faith, hope, and charity, etc. and this is obvious even today. Of course such "high and lofty" ideals degenerate to something abominable such as LGBT rights and mutilation of the human gender.

>>18459200
>Or perhaps not in the very beginning
since 1913 basically. or 1865.
>United States of America has no ethno-nationalist identity
this is some weird europoor cope. race has always been at the center of American thought. it is American eugenics that laid the foundation for Hitler.

but your overall assessment is correct. however, there is a possibility that LGBT rights, tranny shit, is simply a PSYOP by the /trad/ Masonic American elite against their enemies.

>>18458960
Many sufis were masons, including Guenon's actual shaykh. Quote from his french wikipedia page: "Sheikh of the Chadhiliyya , he had many contacts with the West, trying to bring Christianity closer to Islam , emphasizing in particular the perfect recognition of previous revelations by the Muslim religion. A great connoisseur of masonry , he endeavored, in his relations with Europeans, to show the concordance between the universal symbols present among Freemasons as among Muslims".
As for freemoasonry in general, one should read Guenon's correspondence with Evola, he explained to what extent masonry degenerated and why is still legitimate as long as the rites remained the same. Saying that freemasonry is illegitimate because some of its members have bad intentions, is like saying that catholicism is illegitimate because there are bad priests or popes.
https://www.gornahoor.net/?p=4559

>>18459225
so should I go enter a Blue Lodge? I'm American

>>18457769
If you want to claim that all of Tibetan Buddhism is counter-initiatic/anti-traditional you’d have to explain why Guenon referred to it as traditional in his first book, as it stands right now I dont see a strong basis for rejecting all of Tibetan Buddhism.

>The Kalachakra Tantra characterizes the “gods” as complacent and ignorant; their world, though pleasant, is just as much a product of anger, lust and ignorance as the other five lokas, and is equally impermanent. So it is anti-cosmic, like Gnosticism.
So? The gods in kalachakra are presented as ignorant in relation to the quasi-Brahman “Adi Buddha” that the text presents as the Absolute, this is hardly anti-traditional as Upanishads also present the Vedic deities as also being ignorant. In the Chandogya Upanishad Indra is presented as being ignorant, which is why he along with Vairocana both seek knowledge of the Atman from Prajapati. As long as the Absolute, the Buddhistic equivalent of the Paramisvara is not presented as problematic, it can be reconciled with tradition.

> So it is anti-cosmic, like Gnosticism.
It doesn’t say that the cosmos are malevolent or the product of malevolence though, just that they subsist because of beings ignorance and their resulting anger, fear etc, this is what the Upanishads themselves say, the Brihadaranyaka Upanishad says that people who don’t know Brahman suffer misery; this is not gnostic because its not presenting the world as an evil prison that was created by a bad guy, its just saying that the world contains suffering and insatisfaction and will always be inferior to attaining union with the Divine. If you had studied eastern metaphysics instead of having a weird dislike for it and treating the symbolism as something separate you would know this; traditional symbolism cannot be understood when isolated from metaphysics, metaphysics informs our understanding of symbolism.

>>18459237
I have my reasons to believe, what I've have done my search on the Green Dragon and it's connection to Tibet/Rahu and the Black Sun aspect of Rahu devouring the Sun/Eclipsing the Sun in Mythology and certain considerations concerning Agartha/Shamballa and Lamaism, that their presence in the West is counter-initiatic and malign

I would suggest you to read this article
https://ordoabchao.ca/volume-three/shangrila

Especially the parts about Trebitsch-Lincoln (who Guénon suspected of being one of the main counter-initiatory forces)

>In 1939, Edouard Saby published Hitler et les forces occultes (“Hitler and Occult Forces”), in which he depicts Hitler as a medium, a magician and initiate, and also refers to the connection with Tibet: “Wasn’t it Trebitsch-Lincoln, the friend of the Badmaev, who initiated Hitler, by revealing to him the doctrine of Ostara, a secret school of India, where the lamas teach the supremacy of the Aryan?”

Even though this article is badly researched, the Tibetan connection is not unfounded, especially when we consider certain initiatic symbolism of Wiligut, Black Sun, Rahu, and certain other considerations as put forth by Grönhagen in his book "The Secret Society of Himmler". But even Guénon explores Trebitsch-Lincoln's connection with Zaharoff, in a thread I provided last time (which was moved to /his/ )


I provide this one quote from Grönhagen's 1948 book page 148 :
>We know that Sir Bazil Zaharoff is one of the members of Green Dragon. Their members associate themselves with certain codes and clothing such as green gloves and green shoes. The main members recognize each other with a skull pendant/necklacke made of 110 human skull bones which in Tibetan is called »theu-threng«
>This necklacke is hard to differentiate from the necklace chain worn by Tibetan white lamas which use similar chain and which contains 108 pieces.
>The kabbalistic sum of 110 is 2 and that is the number of Satan, for Satan is Dualism. When the sum of 108 is 9, which is a Godly number.
>This Satanic organization is called The Green Dragon.
>Apart from Northern Scandinavia, the Greens have powerful centers in Germany, France, Spain. In 1930 one Asian used a great mansion near Berlin's Grunewald near Köningsallen as his own headquarters. This man was called by German newspapers as the "Man with the Green Gloves".
>This man was introduced as the "Man with two Z:s (Reference to Swastika"
>Grigori Rasputin was also acting under the order of Greens

As I said, I have my reasons to believe this is not simply pulp fiction. As we can see with the case of Mad Baron also trying to contact the "King of the World"
https://ordoabchao.ca/volume-three/shangrila

>>18459321
found these the other day
looked cool
might wear them soon

>>18459321
have you ever read the book Spear of Destiny?

>>18457816
>Why are you lying? They compelled him to make changes to his works, which he did,
Yes, but the extent of his changes was unironically basically just admitting that Buddha could have been a crypto-Advaitin (which 99% of Buddhists would deny anyways)

> It's attested in many sources,
I’m asking if Guenon ever said this in his own words, or if its just hearsay, did someone say that Guenon states this?
>>18457818
>lol so you changed your preference
No, I never changed anything, I just dont recommend the advanced-level stuff for beginners. Because Im not autistic I’m okay with recommending books if they have some good things about them, even if I disagree with the authors on a few things. I dont have ridiculous purity tests that I subject everyone too but I’m open minded. As Aristotle said its the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain an idea without accepting it.
>>18457824
I never asked to be called Guenonfag or portrayed myself as a giga-expert who obsessively read all the secondary literature about him in French. That name first became a thing when some nihilist atheist retard got upset at guenon-posting because it made his atheism look foolish so he started to lash out years ago at any people he could recognize as posting about guenon and related subjects.

>>18459343
I've read it, it is suggestive, but it explores the "different" side of Nazi occultism that leaves Wiligut out of consideration.

Spear of Destiny leaves the Eastern connection unexplored.

>>18459335
Gives me Joker vibes

>>18459234
According to Guenon, masonic initiation is something extra which should be added to christian exoterism(practicing catholicism). Honestly I am not an expert on freemasonry and I don't know what is the state of it right now so I can't recommend you to join it. But I really don't see the point in becoming a freemason or hindu or whatever when you can very easily become a mulsim and maybe also get a sufi initiation. As a muslim you also don't belong to a Church or have a priest so there are no rites which can be affected by the current times. Also, is easier to get initiated into sufism that it is to find an authentic hindu initiation and safer than joining a freemasonic lodge this days. Is up to you and I went a little bit off-topic but that is my honest opinion.

>>18459357
>Spear of Destiny leaves the Eastern connection unexplored.
true
however, as a Hitler autist, I think it's safe to say that Hitler was far more influenced by Western occultism compared to its Eastern counterparts. Particularly Medieval Knightly esoterism - the Grail Quest.
From Spear of Destiny:

>When Hitler elaborated on the Grail, which he conceived as a path leading from unthinking
dullness, through doubt, to spiritual awakening, the word most frequently on his lips was
“Initiation”. Many times he reeled off the ascending grades on the way to the achievement of higher levels of consciousness, disclosing the meaning of the heraldry and annorial insignia of
the Knights, which he interpreted as representing the various stages they had attained in the
quest for the Grail.
>The black Raven was the sign of the First Degree, he explained, because the Raven signified the Messenger of the Grail and the finger of fate which led man to it.
>The Second Degree was symbolised by the Peacock, its many splendoured plumage demonstrating the capacity for the
many coloured imaginative or picture building powers.
>The Swan was the sign of the Third Degree because the novice who sought to attain it had to
sing the Swan Song. That is, he had to die to his own selfish desires and weaknesses to serve the
higher aims of his race.
>The Fourth Degree had been given the symbol of the Pelican, the bird which wounds its own
breast to feed its young. Such an initiate, concluded Hitler, lived for the perpetuation of his own people and dedicated himself to the nurturing of its youth.

>The Lion meant that a man had attained the Fifth Degree and unified his consciousness with
the Folk-Spirit of his race. He spoke as the vessel of that Folk-Spirit. Such a man had become
the Messianic Leader of his people.

>And, according to Hitler's unchristian interpretation of the Grail symbolism, the highest
degree merited the Emblem of the Eagle, for the Initiate had now developed the loftiest powers
and faculties attainable to man. He could now assume a world-historic destiny.

>>18459430
fuck sorry for the shitty formatting. I copied it from another site

>>18459237
>. If you had studied eastern metaphysics instead of having a weird dislike for it and treating the symbolism as something separate you would know this; traditional symbolism cannot be understood when isolated from metaphysics, metaphysics informs our understanding of symbolism

I also do not like this attitude of yours that simply that if something is Traditional, it must be automatically Good, even though Guénon itself points out certain counter-initiatory aspects of Siberian Shamanism, among others, as they are literally the degenerated modern expressions of Hyperborean traditions.

The main doctrine is that Hyperborean, and especially Shamanistic traditions, are the most counter-initiatory in Modern Times, because we are quite literally living in Kali-Yuga, and those centers, as the greatest Vestiges, of these Hyperborean, or Golden Age traditions, must have retained the most degenerated to the most loathsome degree (as contrast to those Atlantic traditions, which received and continued the Hyperborean traditions, after the "Fall")

Bon is commonly considered to be the indigenous religious tradition of Tibet, a system of shamanistic and animistic practices performed by priests called shen (gshen) or bonpo (bon po) and there are reasons to believe, that many Kalachakra practicioners are actually /might be those of Bon po.

Guénon also located the main counter-iniatic centres (that were active) to certain Siberian regions. And this is not wholly wrong considering the Historical location of Hyperborea or Land of the (original) Sun.

But it is futile to discuss this matter with you, you are like some sort of child that considers world a happy place where all traditional socities, by definition, must be bening. While you yourself seem to be totally ignorant of Guénon's most important (or at least which I consider the most important) works such as "King of the World" or "Traditional Forms and Cosmic Cycles"

>>18459430
Hitler was part of the counter-initiation.

>>18459447
And to prove your my point, and keeping the above considerations in mind, I suggest you to read the chapter "Shamanism and Sorcery" in Guénon's Reign of Quantity that reinforces my speculation.

>>18458054
>. in reality there is little difference between the pantheistic hippie and the non-dual advaitin
Wrong you fool, there is a huge difference. Consciousness is qualitatively distinct from unconscious physical phenomena in every way and cannot merge with them. God cannot merge with non-eternal created things. These two positions of uncreated formless consciousness merging with the uncreated formless God is totally different from the notion of your consciousness being the same as a table, these notions are at least as far from each other as Shankara and Ibn Arabi are from eachother, but your schizo ass is always complaining about how Arabi isnt Shankara, you’re not consistent at all but you contradict yourself just so you can complain, whine and seethe some more.

>>18456894
>>18456760
It's fake retard

Today I read pic related book and I am having schizo feelings. All of this UFO and counter-initiatic stuff seem to be real and they make me feel scared. Should I ignore the counter initiation and simply continue with my religious life or have an interest in both, like I do now?

>>18459835
>Should I ignore the counter initiation

I think Jacques Vallée is a good example of a man who has seen these UFO cults and other lunatics for like 60 years straight and has retained quite non-nonsense approach to the whole matter and still stays extremely dispassionate and simply states what it is.

He probably is not religious man, more of a scientist, and that may be his advantage to it.

I don't think it is bad to learn what counter-initiation is. I would also suggest you to read "False Dawn (the united religions initiative, globalism, and the quest for a one-world religion)" by Lee Penn, also released by Sophia Perennis, I think that System of Antichrist is also Sophia Perennis publication.

>>18459447
If a spiritual tradition (lower t) adheres to the primordial Tradition (capitol T), then it would be good, good spiritual traditions are those which adhere to the eternal Tradition. If Siberian Shamanism become bad and counter-traditional, that would mean it no longer fully adhered in its essential doctrine to the eternal Tradition and that it degenerated into merely a lower-t tradition that didnt exemplify the eternal metaphysical Tradition anymore, or to such an incomplete degree that significant problems crop up.

> that considers world a happy place where all traditional socities, by definition, must be benign
I never said this, certain infamous actions undertaken by figures of authority and governments in the Christian and Muslim medieval world had a Satanic or deranged quality to them, despite them being “traditional societies”. Tibet has its own problems, like issues of pedophiliac sexual abuse in monasteries, but that in itself doesn’t prove Tibetan Buddhism is garbage anymore than the same issue in Catholic Churches means Catholicism is had. I have a more nuanced view than you assume.

>>18459871
In the context of Green Dragon, and certain Tibetan influences that have been repeated by multiple authors. I remind you of this quote by Guénon in his chapter "Shamanism and Sorcery" in Reign of Quantity:

>from among the psychic influences with which they deal, the 'shamans' quite naturally distinguish two kinds, one benefic and the other malefic, and as there is obviously nothing to be feared from the former, they pay attention almost
exclusively to the latter: such at any rate appears most often to be the case, though it may be that 'shamanism' includes various forms that might show differences in that respect. But there is never any question of a 'cult' devoted to the malefic influences, which would be a sort of conscious 'satanism', as has often been wrongly imagined; the only objective is, in principle, that of preventing then from doing harm, or of neutralizing or diverting their activity. The same could be said with truth of other supposed 'devil-worshippers' living in various places: in a general way it is scarcely likely that real 'satanism' could be characteristic of an entire people. Nevertheless, it is still true that, whatever may be the original intention, the handling of influences of this sort, when no appeal is made to influences of a superior order (still less to truly spiritual influences), finally leads by force of circumstances to real sorcery, which is a very different thing of course from the sorcery of the common 'rustic magician' of the West, for this last represents no more than the last scraps of a magical knowledge as degenerate and diminished as it could be, and on the point of complete extinction. There are indeed people who, by working more consciously and with a more extensive knowledge (and this does not mean knowledge of a higher order) might be able to make use of these same forces for quite different ends, unbeknown to the 'shamans' or those whose work is similar, for they act as nothing more than mere instruments for accumulating the forces in question at pre-determined points.

Pic related is the Yungdrung, a left facing swastika, a sacred symbol of Bon, Shamanistic religion in Tibet.

This same Swastika, was not the Buddhist one, that appeared in Russia
http://maybelogic.blogspot.com/2011/01/seven-heads-of-green-dragon.html

>Nobody admits he was the uninvited visitor, and it is vital he could compare a photograph taken by Legrand with what he thinks, and indeed appears, to be a forgery, taken later and used in attorney Sokolov's official files. Topped by a swastika, which by then only had a vague asiatic meaning, linked to the Bouddha, there are minor differences between the two pictures.

The Seven Heads of Green Dragon does imply, that it is the Bon sorcerers or someone who employed them who caused certain Events to happen

Is someone posting about guenons?!

>>18459952
>The Seven Heads of Green Dragon does imply, that it is the Bon sorcerers or someone who employed them who caused certain Events to happen
Europeans from this era have been known to make up wholecloth their connections to easterners. Practically nobody in Tibet spoke English back then, is there any solid evidence that would indicate that these shadowy orders had any real connection to Tibet? What if it was all just a bunch of larping like Blavatsky? How do we know that this wasn’t in fact the case?

>>18457816
CRYPTO-BUDDHISTS PROACTIVELY OBLITERATED

SHATTERED SHAMBLING SHANKARISTS SMASHED TO SPLINTERS

COUNTER-INITIATORS DISINTEGRATED TO DUST

People are waking up. They're rejecting crypto-buddhism and new-age traditionalism.

>>18460333
Trips of three confirm it.

>>18460333
What religion/spiritual path do you recommend/adhere to?

>>18460333
>caste based on an understanding of human nature and a direct connection to the Divine
this but unironically

>>18458405
>the Djinnic/Etheric nations to inhabit and they "live" inside these cities.
Wouldn't that make it a prison?

How many of you listen to Subliminal Jihad?

>>18459335
>>18459377

>>18460333
based mame
based America

>>18460333
>pic
This, but unironically

>>18459835
Should I buy and read that book? Is it good? Guenon is an interesting author desu.

>>18459867
didn't Guenon say that being a materialist was actually effective in warding off magical spells n shit?

>>18459430
based af

>>18460667
Pepe the frog is an agent of the counter-initiation

>>18460720
not really

>>18460720
He can be, but not always, he comes in many forms

>>18458405
Quantum chips resemble the temple of Solomon. Not even joking.

>>18460830
that bottom right pic...
B A S E D

GuenonChad is the absolute best sh/lit/poster.

I mean that unironically.

>>18458602
This is the E/lit/e board.

>tfw you post exclusively on /x/ and /lit/

Feels chad, man.

>>18460830
truly the king of /lit/...
U jelly? U mirin brah?

Did atlantis have niggers like the US? Wasn't it noah's son who produced them all because of the curse? Or did they exist before that?

>>18454487
/thread
/guenon
/tradition

>>18461229
It is said that the people from Atlantis were part of the red race, so closer to native americans rather than to whites.

>>18461372
Maybe red as in red hair? If you look at a ginger map, you can find that the majority of them are present in the western parts of Europe. Could be that some of them fled eastwards after the collapse? I don't really know, and it also doesn't explain the Russian Udmurts.
I ask this because I saw one poster talking about how America is the inheritor of Atlantis and their worship of the "black" shamans and magicians.

>>18461074
Same

>>18461474
Was Guenon gingér?

>>18461474
Is about red skin. If you think at it, even north western whites have a certain type of red colour on their skin, something which white japanese for example don't have. Maybe northwestern euros are mixed with the people from Atlantis.

>>18461555
I don't think so, but I am sure that he had light eyes.

Excellent thread

>>18461619
Maybe you're right. The problem with these things is that the terms are often translations of translations which might not reflect the real meaning of the words in their original language. The word reddish-brown/ruddy is very strange in Hebrew (admoni אדמוני,), it can be translated as ruddy (similar to red skin) or having ginger hair, which was the case of David and Esau who might be redheads or have red skins. Many bible books have them illustrated as having red hair.

>>18461372
Didn't they find giant red-haired mummies in Peru?

>>18461710
dyed hair

>>18461923
Could be. I don't really know.
I mainly interested in the negro population in the USA and its possible connection with atlantis and black shamanism. Guenonfag said that he would talk about it but the bump limit was reached.

>>18461963
am*

>>18461963
that dude is not guenonfag
guenonfag never talks about something which is related to advaita

>>18462092
Maybe there are many guenonfags?
He mentioned it in the thread where he talked about israeli vaccine ad with the green dragon. Something about americans worshiping george floyed because it's connected to atlantis.

He is the King of the World
prove me wrong
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bOZT-UpRA2Y

>>18462092
> guenonfag never talks about something which is related to advaita
That’s only when I can easily be identified, I post in threads about a lot of other topics too. Because Advaita solved philosophy, metaphysics, theology, the hard problem of consciousness etc there are often ways to relate it to many different topics being talked about, so it may seem like that’s all I talk about, but you’ve probably spoken with me before in various fiction threads without even realizing it.

>>18462268
Did you ever write about george floyd worship in America?

>>18462268
Chad. Chad af.

>>18462204
lol which one of guenons fanfics can i read about this in lmao

>>18462399
>>/lit/thread/S18445086#p18445319
>only because you got dubs

>>18462360
no

>>18460268
Truth is stranger than fiction.

See for example Baron Roman von Ungern-Sternberg and his contact with the 13th Dalai Lama. What we also know that Tibetans were sent to fight with his army that should have no "business" in Mongolia.

Ignaz Trebitsch-Lincoln also comes a mind https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ignaz_Trebitsch-Lincoln

Reading these articles, one might think of him of being a product some pulp fiction. But as I said, truth is stranger than fiction. Even Guénon considered him one of the main forces of counter-initiation.

Then there is the SS Ahnenerbe 1938–39 German expedition to Tibet.

If one would imply such fantasist connection to Tibet (as those accounts of Theosophy/Blavatsky) it would be a gross underestimation

These quotes from a letter sent in 1936 are also rather revealing:

EXCERPT FROM 13-9-36

>"Trebitsch Lincoln, who is a known agent of the "counter-initiation", has passed himself, too, through many successive transformations, and has always been mixed up in multiple espionages; he has been simultaneously in the service of England and of Germany, like his confrere Aleister Crowley.... since he has become the "Lama Dorji-Den", has lived for some time in Canada, then returned to Europe at the head of a group of "Lamas" of the same kind (among whom there are several Frenchmen), and has set about raising funds to establish a Buddhist monastery in Switzerland. I suspect, according to certain allusions, that he is in rather close relations with the aforementioned "living Buddha", who is also involved in the Buddhist monastery project. There have already been several times similar projects (and always in Switzerland), which have never materialized, and which have more or less ended in a swindle".

( ... )

>"First I must say that Tibet, in reality, is closed above all to the English, although it has never been so difficult to enter there as it has been for some years."

(...)

>"The tulkus of the gods are in fact "projections" of certain principles or of certain supra-human entities."

>>18462533
Those quotes are from a letters of René Guénon, Seven excerpts from letters to René Schneider....

>>18462533
>Ignatius Timothy Trebitsch-Lincoln (Hungarian: Trebitsch-Lincoln Ignác, German: Ignaz Thimoteus Trebitzsch; 4 April 1879 – 6 October 1943) was a Hungarian adventurer and convicted con artist. Of Jewish descent,

>Of Jewish descent

Every. Single. Time.

>>18461229
>>18461372
>Did atlantis have niggers like the US? Wasn't it noah's son who produced them all because of the curse? Or did they exist before that?
>It is said that the people from Atlantis were part of the red race, so closer to native americans rather than to whites.

Guénon writes about this in "Traditional Forms and Cosmic Cycles". The name "Adam" / "Man" signifying Redness does not mean etymologically mean the Red Skin, but rather, the red color of blood.

It is also etymologically connected to the Hebrew word Edom https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edom
>Edom (/ˈiːdəm/;[1][2] Edomite: 𐤀𐤃𐤌 ’Edām; Hebrew: אֱדוֹם ʼÉḏōm, lit.: "red"; )

In the Zohar, and various Traditions, Edomite Kings are also said to be drowned in Flood. And even in the Bible it says that "And these are the kings that reigned in the land of Edom, before there reigned any king over the children of Israel."

The Egyptian tradition was said to be founded by the heirs of Atlantean/Edomite traditions. The Sphinx is said to even pre-date Egyptian traditions, and it might be connected to Edomite kings

This is a good study:
https://hakirah.org/Vol24Twersky.pdf
>Hebrew Hori was also the name of the same man-lion god, Narsimha or the Sphinx, symbolic of Herakhty. In the Indian contexts, some of the names of god Hari are synonyms of a lion, as well as of god Hari, who is also a man-lion, that is, the lion god Sphinx. Seir, ‘hair’ too once was the name of the same lion god.

>“Belonging to Qaus Gabar, King of Edom.”31 The profile of another sphinx was found in Horvat Qitmit, an Edomite site in the Negev desert.32 The sphinx is known to be associated with Leo, the astro-lion of the zodiac.3

Julius Evola viewed the Southern races as being from the dark side that possessed a “demonic” nature, describing them as being “archaic and matter-obsessed” who were predisposed to “sacerdotal and naturalistic-pantheist religions of promiscuous vegetal and animal fertility”. Evola relies on an ancient Aryo-Zoroastrian scripture that describes the origins of the Southern races, particularly the Negroid and Capoid races, through coition between a demon and a witch with mankind:
>“Zohak, during his reign, let loose a dev (demon) on a young woman, and let loose a young man on a parik (witch). They performed coition with [the sight] of the apparition; the negro came into being through that [novel] kind of coition” (Bundahishn, XIVB).

Similarily in the Zohar, we can read that before Eve was made, the dreams of Adam produced Lilith, a demon, and that from his intercourse with her sprang evil, dark races.

"And because that constitution of Adam was not as yet found, they could not subsist nor be conformed, and they were destroyed."

Guénon also speculates the African shamanistic/black people traditions are degenerated vestiges and survivors of these pre-antediluvian traditions that have now degenerated. They are the heirs of such catasthrope

>>18462533
>Ignaz Trebitsch-Lincoln a
I just read that he tried to claim to be the next Dalai Lama and even got approval from Japan

>>18462533
>Truth is stranger than fiction
okay, but if there is no solid evidence for it there is no reason to assume that the Tibetans would involve themselves in some larpy European occultist activity spanning multiple continents, especially as almost nobody in Tibet spoke European languages, and none of these international larping con-artists spoke Tibetan or spent enough time there to learn the language, much less gain access to Tibet in the first place, this “conspiracy” stuff is the exact sort of thing that one would expect the Tibetans to be suspicious and distasteful towards.

That Tibetans would send soldiers to fight in Mongolia can easily be explained by the spiritual links between Tibet and Mongolia, as both follow Gelug Buddhism, so the Tibetans would view it as helping to free their religious brethren from Chinese rule.

>>18462639
>The Egyptian tradition was said to be founded by the heirs of Atlantean/Edomite traditions. The Sphinx is said to even pre-date Egyptian traditions, and it might be connected to Edomite kings
Thank you very much for the valuable info. I am an Egyptian redhead and I don't know where the fuck does it come from, I have been researching it for years and asking around the elders and never came to any satisfying answer.
>inb4 crusades
I come from an oasis in the desert that had no contact with any of the happenings on the nile valley for hundreds of years. There wasn't even a proper road until 70 years ago.
You seem to be very knowledgeable on the subject. Do you have any theories/speculations on this.

>>18462639
>The Egyptian tradition was said to be founded by the heirs of Atlantean/Edomite traditions
This is strange. Isn't Edom the first born son of Abraham who "sold" his birthright to his brother Isaac? Isaac is then the father of Jacob (aka Israel). This doesn't make any sense historically given that the Israelites were enslaved in Egypt (an already established nation possibly thousands of years old at the time).

>>18462572
jews are inherently counter-traditional
they are khazars

>>18462742
Why do you need to feel to comment/talk about subject you don't seem to have the slightest clue about? You just want to make your posts visibile because of attention?

Maybe it would not be useless to reread carefully Beasts, Men and Gods of of Ferdynand Ossendowski, published in 1924 - and to an Asia dominated by the vision of the "yellow peril" where shamanism shares it with examples of a deviated and oh so mortifying tantrism. The Seven Heads of the Green Dragon is NOT A HISTORICAL NOVEL. But that is the most disturbing part of the book, for a book published in 1933 in contains the vision of a Weimar Germany lost in the abyss of its fears and dominated by a society of magicians, including perhaps the blackest of them all, Hanussen who was close to the first circle of the nascent National Socialism and to Hitler himself, and Hitler himself is referred to in the book as the enigmatic "Man with Two Z's" (a reference to Swastika). Not only, the book contains rather "revealing" and referring to the deviated symbolism of the swastika and even certain symbolism of the SS..., that René Guénon clearly explained in Le Roi du Monde. This whole, dominated by a strange secret society designated in the course of the investigation under the name of the Greens and whose actions would be at the heart of the events that provoked the advent of communism and Nazism... If we add to this the the image of the "dragon", of the "hydra", "Leviathan", and the green color that strangely reminds us of the reminiscent of the Face of the same color of the disturbing Gustav Meyrink (1868-1932) - whose of which Guénon recalled "the icy atmosphere in more than one way" which emanated from it -, we are in "excellent" company..."excellent" company...

The problem is that it is futile to talk of this subject with people who have read some sort of Wikipedia article on that matter. I am absolutely sure no one in the history of /lit/ has even read The Green Face (German:Das grüne Gesicht) by Gustav Meyrink

And it is for this reason that study regarding this topic is the most difficult one. It takes its place in the long litany of these curious "disclosures" that started the end of the 19th and the beginning of the 20th century. Certainly "addressed to a reserved public, containing encrypted but clear information for who knows how to read, they had also had for main goal to spread fears and chimeras and especially this famous "inversion of the the famous "inversion of the symbols" which is without question one of the manifest signs of the "counter-initiation" - of profoundly "satanic" essence. The origin of these documents is obviously problematic and the Seven Heads of the Green Dragon does not escape the rule. However, it is certain that this document and the sinister designs it underlies can be linked to these strange officines that willingly mixed politics and espionage, deviated esotericism and psychic manipulation in the greatest "tradition" of this occult war.

>>18462639
>that from his intercourse with her sprang evil, dark races
Brigham Young was /trad/

>>18462742
>>18462830
One should also read A short allusion by Guénon in an October 1934 review of a publication of the RISS. It shows that Guénon had read the Seven Heads and noted in its pages many disturbing aspects: "The RISS (n° of July 1st)

>>18462830
What does that have to do with Tibet? Why do you keep going off on random tangents?

>>18462851
>What does that have to do with Tibet?

It is clear you have never read The seven heads of the Green Dragon if you even ask this question.

>>18462851
>>18462851
Do me a favor, read these books in chronological fashion, open mind, in a scholarly fashion, with eager research in mind:

Beasts, Men and Gods of by Ferdynand Ossendowski
Le Roi du Monde by Rene Guénon
Les Sept Têtes Du Dragon Ver by Legrand Teddy

The fact that Green Dragon mentions this:
>S.I.M.P. The Green Dragon. You were absolutely right. Too late.
>S.I.M.P stood for Superieur Inconnu, Maitre Philippe, ‘Unknown Superior, Master Philippe’.

And please, please before you offer you "expertize" on this matter I suggest you in your hubris to read the 2005 study L'ENIGME RENE GUENON ET LES SUPERIEURS INCONNUS : CONTRIBUTION A L'ET. DE L'HIST. MOND. SOUTERRAINE by Maistre Louis ( THE RENE GUENON ENIGMA AND THE UNKNOWN SUPERIORS: CONTRIBUTION TO THE ET. OF THE HIST. WORLD. SUBTERRAIN HISTORY)

You just strike me as a guy who treats Guénon as some Vedanta scholar and you seem to be totally ignorant of his earlier years and studies in comparative religion

pbuh

yo euro bro, the tibetans got back to me today
they rejected me lol
told me they'd contact me once covid is over

>>18462919
>>18462919
Why would one even want to "initiate" himself to Kalachakra in the West is beyond me

Their aim and presence in the West has only one purpose, and the purpose is this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_au5RCor55M

>>18462933
all art gets destroyed anyway
might as well do it yourself in a ritualistic manner

>>18462933
WTF is that demonic smile at the end!!! Also how many teeth does this guy have?

>>18462976
>>18462957
Listen also the Mantra they are chanting while destroying the Mandala

>Dordji-Den who claimed to have been initiated in the monastery of Sera near Lhassa. They sympathised, and in exchange for rather useless information on French submersibles he had taught Legrand about the Tibetan attributes of a lama, from the trident Doung Khatan to the Khangling, a small trumpet made from human bone, to the robe (called Zen) and the way to wear it, to especially the Theu-Threng, made from exactly 108 slices of different human skulls used while chanting the mantra Um Mane Padme Hung ('Oh the juwel in the lotus'). Legrand is striken by the different amount used by 'the Green', which might have easily been overlooked; so they start to look for two rosaries they couild alter. A first attempt at Alexandra David-Neel's residence fails, when a friend of Legrand who just got back from Chorten-Nyama provides them with perfectly altered copies. Irma Staub gives them the last information they need.

Similarily, it was also counter-initiatory Jewish spy merchant Trebitsch-Lincoln who brought Zen meditation/Zen Buddhism to the West, especially America

Studies in Comparative Religion Correspondence:

https://ruhaniat.org/index.php/samarchive-category-template-mapping/85-murshid-sam-archive-documents/writing/other-writings/correspondence?limit=10&start=90

>Recently a book appeared on Chinese Buddhists. It is a good book, but it mentions that one Dr. Trebitsch-Lincoln disappeared for a number of years and “nobody” knew where he was. Well, this person did, although my records have long since been destroyed by fire. I do know that this “unworthy” made a number of predictions all of which came into manifestation. And until we become more impersonal and direct we are going to remain in confusing. Science leads because laboratory discipline demands objectivity and honesty; in other lines these are not so demanded.

>There is already a sort of “revolution” in another field—the displacement of “famous” Englishmen and Europeans as mentors and “experts” in “Oriental Philosophy.” Two of your closest colleagues who told me their stories are not going to be happy if you retain this type of person as associate and advisor especially when this type of person does not accept the moral standards of the religion (or religions) upon which he lectures.

>When I left San Francisco in 1930 I think Trebitsch-Lincoln was still here or he had just left for China. I was then in New York, and studied with the late Sokei-An Sasaki. During that period also the Zendo moved from San Francisco to Los Angeles.

These Jews have been very active in spreading certain Asiatic philosophies in the West, especially the more annhitionalist and counter-initiatory heresies, especially Chinese Buddhism in the beginning, but later as Zendo too.

I'm Sicilian
is the Mafia /trad/ or counter/trad/?

>>18461074
Based. Only boards worth visiting (along with /pol/ for the habbenings)

>>18463000
Checked.
>These Jews have been very active in spreading certain Asiatic philosophies in the West
Isn't that true also in the case of Vivekananda and Ramakrishna?
>Zen
the japanese people are strange man... is shinto a legitimate tradition? did guenon ever mention them?

>>18463178
Vivekananda is extreme counter-initiatory even GuENON says this

>>18463178
>zen
>japanese
retard

>>18462875
so what do you personally think of the man with the Green Gloves?

>>18463228
Al-Khidr, The Green One.

>>18463247
what about the Green Knight

>>18463228
https://sufipathoflove.com/al-khidr-the-green-one/
This entire website is green.
>I plan to be initiated into their order

>>18463281
Impossible, The Al-Afrad contact you, not the other way around

That site is counter-initiation

>>18463295
It's not Afrad it's a regular Naqshbandi order, they just have an article of khidr.
I already did this https://sufipathoflove.com/to-be-a-naqshbandi-over-the-internet/
I am now waiting to receive a proper initiation on his hand.

>>18463325
Dont let him touch you

>>18463339
why?

>Human Fraternity for World Peace and Living Together

extremely based

>>18463281
>>18463325
>Naqshbandi
Doesn't have Ali in the chain but has "abu bakr" instead.
ngmi

>>18463372
>In the name of orphans, widows, refugees and those exiled from their homes and their countries; in the name of all victims of wars, persecution and injustice; in the name of the weak, those who live in fear, prisoners of war and those tortured in any part of the world, without distinction;

In the name of peoples who have lost their security, peace, and the possibility of living together, becoming victims of destruction, calamity and war;

In the name of human fraternity that embraces all human beings, unites them and renders them equal;

In the name of this fraternity torn apart by policies of extremism and division, by systems of unrestrained profit or by hateful ideological tendencies that manipulate the actions and the future of men and women;

In the name of freedom, that God has given to all human beings creating them free and distinguishing them by this gift;
>etc etc etc

>Abu Dhabi, 4 February 2019
Fucking Abu Dhabi of all places! Yeah I am thinking counter-initiation.

>>18463389
Masonic Brotherhood of Manninen

Equality
Fraternity
Solidarity

One World System

>>18463410
Mannischen

>>18463410
Masonic indeed. They also have the strangest chain too.
>It stems from the first Caliph, Abu Bakr. From Abu Bakr, the secret of this transmission was then passed to Salman the Persian, then to Qasim bin Muhammad ibn Abu Bakr. From Qasim the transmission passed to Ja'far al-Sadiq. From as-Sadiq, the transmission passed to later sheikhs
This "first caliph" is very criticized for taking the caliphate for himself by Ali in Nahj al-Balagha.
Also how could Jafar al sadiq receive initiation, the one who is the master of all scholars (literally taught jabir ibn hayyan alchemy).
Not a legitimate order. Don't get initiated. >>18463325